Oral History Interview with Donald Shaul

[Interview Begins]

DRISCOLL: All right, today is December 18, 2003. This is John Driscoll. I am a volunteer with the Wisconsin Veterans Museum, and this is an oral history interview with Don Shaul of Deerfield, Wisconsin. Don was in the United States Navy in World War II. And Don, thanks for agreeing to the interview and coming in for it. Good morning.

SHAUL: Good morning.

DRISCOLL: Okay. Can we start off, Don, will you just tell about where and when you were born?

SHAUL: Yea. October 8, 1924. I was born, and I was born in a family of ten. I was the youngest boy.

DRISCOLL: Here in Madison?

SHAUL: Yea. In "the Bush."

DRISCOLL: The Greenbush. You mentioned that.

SHAUL: And my mother died when I was six years old and my father was worthless. You know, he was drinking all the time.

DRISCOLL: Yep. Yep.

SHAUL: And my mother lost her leg and I can remember that.

DRISCOLL: Take your time.

SHAUL: We were put out in foster homes, in 1930. My mother had died but anyway, I'll miss part of that. But I was in a foster home out by A. K. Fritz. It used to be Tallard's. And he kept us. And we stayed there until I was nine years old. And then I had to go out and work for my own board and room. Not clothes, they would buy my clothes. But I had to work for my board and room. So, in 1941, I 00:02:00was either sixteen or seventeen. Mrs. Clark said, "You should go in the Navy." So I went in the Navy. I was either sixteen or seventeen, I don't know for sure. And I was in there four years. And I was, first I was in the Armed Guards, and we went all over the world.

DRISCOLL: On merchant ships?

SHAUL: Yea, on merchant ships, but a gunner on a merchant ship. Armed Guard. And we had been to South Africa. We had been to Cape Town. We had been up the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. We have been to Iran, we have been to Iraq. I have been in Bagdad. We had done all this. But in 1943, I got on the Julia Ward Howe. A brand-new ship. That is the famous writer. She is in the history books. Thirteen letters. Julia Ward Howe. Sailed on January 13, 1943.

DRISCOLL: Oh-oh.

SHAUL: Got sunk thirteen days out, on the 26th of January, 1943. The captain of the ship was Andrew Hammond, thirteen letters. And I was on the front bow of the Julia Ward Howe, at the 3 inch 50. On the stern they had a 5 inch 50. And I was on that and the concussion when the torpedo hit, we got torpedoed, okay. When the concussion hit, it picked me right out of the gun turret and put me on number 3 hatch. The concussion picked me up. And there was eight guys laying on hatch number 3. It picked me out of the first hatch, not the third. But, anyway, it picked me up and I seen, I knew the captain. A little bald, right here. And I 00:04:00seen his head laying on the deck.

DRISCOLL: Oh, man.

SHAUL: The concussion killed him because he was on the bridge.

DRISCOLL: Okay.

SHAUL: Concussion goes up. You understand?

DRISCOLL: Yea.

SHAUL: And the eight guys that were laying sunning themselves on number three hatch, where the torpedo hit right under it, they never found them. Nobody. And so, they put one torpedo in her and she started to sink. And we were going to Oran, Africa. That is where we were going. And this was two hundred and fifty miles southwest of the Azores.

DRISCOLL: Yep.

SHAUL: And they said that ship never went to the bottom there, because it was twelve miles deep. That is what they said. So it drifted to where it hit bottom, you know, eventually. And when we got sunk, then they put number two in her, 00:05:00torpedo. Then she was going fast, you know. She broke in half. You understand?

DRISCOLL: What kind of a ship was it?

SHAUL: It was a cargo ship. Cargo and passenger, but we were in the passenger rooms. There were no passengers on it. Only the gunners. That is what we took. But it was a cargo ship. We were hauling P-38s on the deck and in the hold we had supplies for Oran, Africa. You understand? And not Casablanca, Oran.

DRISCOLL: Yep.

SHAUL: And it sunk, so we had to go over the side of the ship. The gunners. Because the Merchant Marine were using the ropes. You understand? They got to use the ropes. We didn't. We had to wait until they were off, because we were 00:06:00men of war. Okay? So, we waited, and we got on the rafts, but not the boats, because they blew one, the torpedo blew one boat off completely, so we were a boat short right away. And we were on the rafts. We were riding flush with the water, like this. I mean flush, because we were overloaded. Because we lost a raft and a boat, a lifeboat. But we went over the side, and I jumped. And I swear my back is still in bad shape from jumping. Well, me and about seven or eight other guys jumped. Because we couldn't get down the ropes, because them guys were going down, see, and we had to wait for them. That was our orders, you understand? But we were on that raft about eighteen hours, somewhere, on the raft.

DRISCOLL: Oh, wow. Were you all alone when you got hit?

SHAUL: No, we weren't alone, because they hit the City of Flint, too. That day. 00:07:00That afternoon. But this went into the night. Because they hit the City of Flint and us, and we were in "coffin corner." You know what that is?

DRISCOLL: I've heard of it.

SHAUL: Well, that ain't being watched too good. And we couldn't keep up, on account of the Liberty ships, see. The Julia War Howe was a Liberty ship. The City of Flint was a slow one, too. And we couldn't keep up, us two. You understand? And so the Germans surfaced, and the oldest guy on the ship was the only guy that could shave.

DRISCOLL: No kidding?

SHAUL: That is the truth. All the rest were clean-shaven. I mean nothing. They were kids on this U-boat. But they were feeding off of a mother ship, you understand? There was a bunch of them. But, anyway, they surfaced. And they said, I was raised by German people, okay? You understand?

DRISCOLL: Okay.

SHAUL: And I could talk a little German. And he said, "Half-load," to the machine gunner. I'll never forget it as long as I live. And I said, "He just 00:08:00said, 'half-load.' You better tell him where we were going." I know what he was talking about because I could understand a little German. Because they taught me. I could sing "Silent Night" in German, and everything. I could. Because they raised me. But anyway, I says, "You better tell him were we were going," So the third mate, he was down on deck, he lived but the first mate didn't live and the captain didn't live. You understand? So they couldn't tell him nothing. So they surfaced, because nobody around. No destroyers, no nothing. The convoy was gone. You understand? But anyway, I says, "You better tell him where you were going." I told the merchant guy, see? Because they were in command. We didn't have nothing to say. And he told him where we were going, Oran, Africa. What we had on the ship, they wanted to know. All they did was mark it off. That is all they do. And then they went down again. They left us, right there. So, they sent out 00:09:00an SOS [Morse code distress signal] when we got hit. You know. So the Portugese Navy come and picked us up with the S. S. Lima. That is a warship. But that listed sixty-seven degrees. You know what is. Yea, just about over. Well, ninety is over. And that scared us worse than the torpedoing.

DRISCOLL: Why?

SHAUL: Well, we were in a storm.

DRISCOLL: Oh, I see.

SHAUL: Yea, she listed sixty-seven degrees, and the guy drew a picture of it. I've got the picture. Well, you've it now. You've got the picture. Up here. I gave it to Gayle.

DRISCOLL: Yea, okay.

SHAUL: It listed and then we had to pay two dollars for picture. We didn't have much money in them days. But I bought one, anyway. I got one. But that scared us worse than the torpedo. But that tore off all the things on one side of the ship. But we picked up the people that were left from the City of Flint, and 00:10:00then we buried the chief engineer and the first mate at sea. I got, she's got that picture, too. And then I got a thing from the United States government saying us to have about perished in the North Atlantic, you know. You got that, too. From the government. It was either Secretary of the Navy, or somebody. Not the president, but the secretary. Anyway, I got all that. And then we went, they took us to Sâo Miguel Island, one of the nine Azores, in Ponta Delgada, that is the name of the town. I can't even spell it, but that is where.

DRISCOLL: That's okay. I've been there.

SHAUL: Oh, yea. You've been there? Oh, you have? Were you down there where the Panama Clipper used to fly, too? On that end island?

DRISCOLL: We, there was a Navy air base there.

SHAUL: Yea. You were there, too? Well, I'll be darned. Well, anyway, we stayed there for five to six months. I just can't remember.

DRISCOLL: Oh, wow.

SHAUL: Because we were waiting for the S. S. Nyasa [?], that is the name of the Portugese ship to pick us up. You know. And, during the war, they had to run by light, you know. Then the Germans wouldn't torpedo them.

DRISCOLL: Now, was Portugal neutral?

SHAUL: They were neutral.

DRISCOLL: They were neutral. You wouldn't have any idea how to spell Nyasa?

SHAUL: No.

DRISCOLL: We'll give it a shot. Okay.

SHAUL: No, that I don't know. I'm lucky I can say it. But, anyway, we stayed there, it was either five or six months, I forget. That I can't remember. That was sixty years ago. But anyway, we were, then we were interned, because the German consul said we were men of war. You understand?

DRISCOLL: Yea. Okay.

SHAUL: Which we were. But we went as utility men, we were dressed in civilian 00:12:00clothes and everything. We went ashore as utility men, in dungarees. So it was a while before they found out we were men of war. Then they kept us in a women's convent.

DRISCOLL: Oh, boy.

SHAUL: No. No women there. It was vacated. And then they kept us there, and they marched us to chow every day. They meant business. You know? And we were on that island for, well, say five months for sure. Then, finally, the S. S. Nyasa pulled in and picked us up. And here we come home with four hundred refugees on there from all over Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia, you know, Poland. All women. And here is us hundred and eighteen boy coming out of there.

DRISCOLL: Sailors. All right.

SHAUL: That is the truth. But, anyway, when we got to the United States and we 00:13:00had thirty days R & R [rest and recuperation]. Right away. We went to De Land, Florida. To the College Arms Hotel, that is where we went. I'll never forget it. So, that is my history of the sinking. But then, when I left there, I got into a LION outfit, Landing Invasion Operational Navy. Okay? Then we made Tinian, Saipan and Guam, the Marianas. Okay. And that is where, then I got dengue fever there, I did. And I went to 107, they packed me in ice.

DRISCOLL: Wow. Oh, wow.

SHAUL: Well, I went hysterical.

DRISCOLL: Sure.

SHAUL: See, now I get PTSD. You know what that is? Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

DRISCOLL: Okay.

SHAUL: I get that. Because of that.

DRISCOLL: Yea. That was terrible.

SHAUL: Well, I ran an LCVP. [Landing Craft Vehicle Personnel] You know what that is?

DRISCOLL: Oh, yea.

SHAUL: I brought the troops in. You know, and I could run a boat. In the 00:14:00Depression, we had an old Alto motor, you know. You know what an Alto is? You ain't that old.

DRISCOLL: No.

SHAUL: You cranked it, like this. Like a John Deere tractor.

DRISCOLL: Oh. okay.

SHAUL: Alto motor. And I run that, and I knew how to run a boat. You know. And I run one of them and we brought in the 3rd Marines, and we brought in the 77th Army. We brought in the 56th Seabees, to Agate Beach, not Agana, on Guam. Agana is the capital. Well, this is Agate, on the other side of the island. We brought them in on the reef, you know. And then that thing had two Packard engines in it. You know what Packard was years ago? The Packard car?

DRISCOLL: Oh, yea. Yea, with the red hex.

SHAUL: And I could back off them reefs. Throw one in reverse and one ahead, I could back right off.

DRISCOLL: I could never understand how they could take those things and just push them sideways, right up to the landing stage.

SHAUL: Yea. Well, then you open the front end and out they go. But, anyway, that is my experience in the war, I guess. So, now, I can't think of anything else. Then I got married, in the 13th of December, 1945, and I been married fifty-eight years.

DRISCOLL: Okay. That was a good thirteen.

SHAUL: Yea. And I married a good one, too.

DRISCOLL: Will you go back and tell the story of the white horse on State Street?

SHAUL: Oh, yea. I can't remember the year, but it was in the '30s, when they opened new State Street, this was. Malone's Grocery was out about the 400 block, okay? Fritz used to deliver produce there. A. K. Fritz, he run Fritz Construction. Well, he was semi-retired. And, see, they built the capitol, with Findorf. And they built the stadium, with Findorf. You know, they were all cahoots, in them days. Albert and Carl. I stayed with Albert, and my brother 00:16:00stayed with Albert, but my sister never did. She was spoiled with Egans, Fritz's daughter. But Fritz built that house for Egan. Egan used to own that Dodge dealership on Doty Street, years ago. But he drank it up. But anyway, Fritz had a white horse. Oh, he always had a horse. One day I went out and hit him on the side, like this. He fell over. The horse.

DRISCOLL: No kidding?

SHAUL: He had sleeping sickness. We didn't know it.

DRISCOLL: I'll be darned.

SHAUL: I hit him on the neck, you know. Well, he knew me, like a hawk. I rode him all the time. And Fritz always had a saddle for me, and everything. Oh, he was good, he was. Well, all the county used to stay out there and drink, you know. And everything else. Well, we shot at our own brothers, too. Me and my brothers. We were watching Fritz's melon patch, you understand? They weren't 00:17:00satisfied. They had been down and stole chickens from Fritz. Okay? And we shot at them, with the shotgun. We had a shotgun. My brothers. This is my brothers, Harold and Earl.

DRISCOLL: Okay.

SHAUL: And Kenny. Kenny was my brother, but we were together, watching the melon patch. But, anyway, and the county was over to Fritz's, you know. They were always there because they used to like to drink wine there. See, he made homemade wine.

DRISCOLL: Oh, did he? Okay.

SHAUL: Oh, yea. And they were always there, you know. And they'd get Hook and Kaltenberg and Larson and all them. You don't even know them, probably. But I know them. But, anyway, and he says, old, the guy that owned that grocery, he says, "Can we use your horse, Albert?" You know. Albert says, "Sure you can use it. Who is going to ride it?" "Well," he says, I'll put Donny on it." He always called me Donny. So on the horse I went. Led the whole parade up State Street. 00:18:00Opened the street. That was new, then. And about 19, God damn it, it had to be, I was about nine. So nine from twenty-four is '33, or '34. That they had done that street. So, that's it. I rode the horse up and led the whole parade.

DRISCOLL: That is great. That is tremendous.

SHAUL: Well, we got enough there, now?

DRISCOLL: We've got plenty here.

SHAUL: You want more? What do you want?

DRISCOLL: Just a couple of questions. When you got out, you had been in the Navy. You had the GI Bill. Did you use it?

SHAUL: No, I went right to work. Well, I had to. I was married.

DRISCOLL: Yea, that's right. That's true.

SHAUL: You know, I had to support my family, and I had a baby on the way.

DRISCOLL: Okay. How about VFW, American Legion, any of those?

SHAUL: Well, I'm a what you call it, DAV. I'm disabled. That is what the PTSD 00:19:00is. I know Larry over at the Veterans.

DRISCOLL: Yea. That's a great place over there.

SHAUL: I was just in the hospital. Well, you don't need to put this down, if you don't want to. I don't care. But I just had one up the groin, you know? And they examine your veins. Now listen to this. You won't believe this. I had the best doctors in the country over there, from the University Hospital. Doctor Marsh, and his team.

DRISCOLL: Okay.

SHAUL: You can't believe the doctors they got. They are the best. Macke, over there, he is in infectious diseases. He flies all over the world. They are better than Mayo.

DRISCOLL: That's great.

SHAUL: That's right. But anyway, this Macke, well, two years ago, that is what I had. I had e coli and I had moganella. Never heard of it. There was only two other cases in the United States, that I had. But he got me out of it. That Macke.

DRISCOLL: That's great.

SHAUL: Well, he says, well, it infects the pancreas. And it infects the liver, 00:20:00too. But, he says, "Well, you want to go home?" I says, "Yea, I want to go home." Naturally, you want to go home.

DRISCOLL: Sure.

SHAUL: Well, he says, "If you can give yourself your own intravenous," he says, "I'll sent you home." "By God," I says, "You give me the nurse that shows me how to do it." And, boy, I went home. I was home five weeks on that intravenous. And he cured it. He says, "Otherwise, you are going to be in here five more weeks."

DRISCOLL: That's a miracle.

SHAUL: Yea. So now I went in, to Dr. Marsh, and Paula Douglas is the boss. She is a woman. And I wrote her a card when I got out, and Ma sent it. She must have it. But I says, "That is the finest team I've ever had." But there was more than one team coming all the time, you know. And the all want you to cough, and everything else. But here, I got to tell you this. I am in this big thing. I got a shed on the farm, you know. A hundred and forty feet long.

DRISCOLL: Oh, wow.

SHAUL: Well, this is a shed. I built it, but now my kid owns it, because I'm in the Vets. And if you get too much income, you know. So I turned it over to him. But anyway, this building is half as big as my shed, where they do this thing. They go up your groin. And a woman was doing it, see. And the place, there are eight or nine of them running around there. And I was awake. I was awake. I knew what was going on, because they just deaden you, here, and then the cut you. They cut you right here, and then they can see your two veins to your liver and everything. And your kidneys. And your heart. This is all on camera. You can't believe it. I never seen a camera so big in my life. But they do this all with cameras. If it needs a stent...

DRISCOLL: It's got a camera in it?

SHAUL: They put the camera right in there. See, they make the incision and put 00:22:00the camera in there. But this stent, that will put this right in place where it is supposed to go. Now, can you believe that?

DRISCOLL: That's amazing.

SHAUL: Oh, yea, it is.

DRISCOLL: They've come a long ways.

SHAUL: Yea. Oh, nowdays, now wait a minute till I tell you. Two years ago I was in the hospital with this infectious disease. They said, "Your one artery in your heart is plugged." Well, I never thought nothing of it, you know. Now, can you believe this? You don't have to believe it. I don't care. But, anyway, my blood pressure went so high that night that I was sick, they hauled me into the emergency room, 911. They said that my pressure went so high that it was 273 over 140. Now, believe that one. It blew that out.

DRISCOLL: Oh, yea?

SHAUL: Now that is hard to believe.

DRISCOLL: A real plunger.

SHAUL: Yea, it blew it out and all four of my veins, two to my heart and two to 00:23:00my kidneys, yea, one to each one. No, can you believe it?

DRISCOLL: That is amazing.

SHAUL: And you know what this Dr. Marsh said? Oh, he's a good boy. So is that Palmer. She's a top dog. But, anyway, they said that is one in a miracle. Well, the pressure got so high it blew it out. You understand? But, good for me. I didn't need no stent or nothing. Ain't that something? And I feel good now. But, anyway, you want any more?

DRISCOLL: Go back, before you were torpedoed. You said you were going all over.

SHAUL: All over the world I went.

DRISCOLL: As Armed Guard on merchant ships?

SHAUL: Yea. On the fast ones. I was on them and never got sunk. It was the C-1 type. It moved about eighteen knots instead of eleven.

DRISCOLL: Oh, that is moving. I spent twenty-six months.

SHAUL: On what?

DRISCOLL: We called them APA's. Liberty ships.

SHAUL: Yea?

DRISCOLL: In the '50's. They didn't go very fast.

SHAUL: No, eleven knots was top dog.

DRISCOLL: In fact, you talk about the Portugese ship going over, I was on an LST and I was sitting up in the conning tower, the big tower in the back of the LST. And they had a string, and they had this nail, and they had these lines painted. And as we were rolling, this nail is swinging. And, of course, over here is a big red line. I was in the Marine Corps. I wasn't a sailor, see. They said, "Boy, if we ever go past that red line, that's it. We're done." Well, it went past the red line pretty far, and I'm thinking, "My God! We're going over!" Of course, they were sitting there reading a book or working. They put me on.

SHAUL: Was that the Korean War?

DRISCOLL: Right after.

SHAUL: My kid was is in Viet Nam.

DRISCOLL: Oh, yea? Okay.

SHAUL: He was over in Tangrang, Camrom Bay, and he went to Korea on MacNamara's Red Horse Team. He got his citation for that. For building airstrips. He was in construction of the Air Force. That was what he was in. See, I was in construction, too, on Guam.

DRISCOLL: Oh, were you?

SHAUL: Well, I was with the Seabees. I was Navy. Supply.

DRISCOLL: Seabees were Navy.

SHAUL: We'd steal anything you could get your hands on.

DRISCOLL: Oh, sure. Yea.

SHAUL: This chief would tell me, I was a second class. Second, not first, because if you get first, you get chief, too. But anyway, I was a second class, and he'd say, "Go down and get that crane down there." I'd go down and get the Link Belt Speeder. It was a Link Belt Speeder, made in Milwaukee. And up I bring the crane, up to the Naval Supply Depot. And here come a little ninety-day wonder, you know, with the papers. And he says, "Hey, that crane belongs to us." 00:26:00"Well," I says, "the chief says, 'If it's yours, take it.'" We stole the damned thing. Stole the crane, stole trucks, stole everything. But ice cream machines! This chief, he always says, "Go down and get that ice cream machine." Officers didn't even have it. You know, I mean, commissioned. But this old chief.

DRISCOLL: They run the Navy.

SHAUL: Yea. Well, they do. And the bo's'uns mates do, too. Well, I was a bo's'un mate. And the captain and the bo's'uns mate are always like that.

DRISCOLL: Oh yea.

SHAUL: But them ninety-day wonders ain't got a chance. So, but anyway, we had fun, even if it was bad, at times.

DRISCOLL: What did you guys feel, the Navy, the Armed Guards...

SHAUL: Suicide Squads, they called us. That's what they called us.

DRISCOLL: ...about the merchant seamen, because the merchants were making some 00:27:00pretty good money.

SHAUL: God damned right, because we weren't. No, I was on $21, I started off, then $36, and then $54, and then when I made coxswain, then I got $72, I think. Somewhere in there. But, no, but them guys were good to us.

DRISCOLL: Were they?

SHAUL: Oh, yea.

DRISCOLL: Sure.

SHAUL: They'd take us ashore, like when I had that picture taken. Right there. That was in Scotland. They took us ashore, they spent everything. They get $100 every time they are bombed in England. The merchant marines. Oh, yea. They made money.

DRISCOLL: I had a very good friend from Madison here, Vern Meyer.

SHAUL: How do you spell it?

DRISCOLL: M-e-y-e-r.

SHAUL: Oh, I know an M-e-i, or M-i-e, or something like that.

DRISCOLL: He was a pharmacists striker, and he had to make sure they got their shots.

SHAUL: He was a pecker-checker.

DRISCOLL: Well, that's right. Six o'clock in the morning and skin it back.

SHAUL: I'll never forget that.

DRISCOLL: But, he could figure out from the shots where they going. A lot of times they wouldn't tell them. And he figured out, if it was anywhere near Russia, he'd get sick and he wouldn't make that shipment. Now, he'd be terribly sick until the ship was gone, and then he'd feel good. He said he wasn't going, because a lot of them, they'd take a ship, a convoy to Russia and then the Russians would intern them, for no reason at all. He said, no. So, when they got the shots, then he'd figure out where they were going.

SHAUL: Well, that's what those God-damned Germans did in Ponta Delgada. They interned us, because they were neutral, you know. But I ain't never got no proof of it. You know, they sent to St. Louis and those records burnt up.

DRISCOLL: Yea, there was a big fire.

SHAUL: Yea. And that is where mine are supposed to have gone.

DRISCOLL: That's too bad.

SHAUL: No, and Whitey, he was in Stalag 19. He was on the Bulge, you know? And I know him real well. He ate in Mike's restaurant all the time, up at Lodi. And by God, he finally died. He never did get it until after he died, and then he got 00:29:00prisoner of war status. Jesus Christ, can you believe that? So he never got no dental or nothing. Well, I didn't, neither. I never got no dental. That is when the City of Flint was in on that one.

DRISCOLL: Okay, now this is where?

SHAUL: That's in Ponta Delgado, in San Miguel Island. Is that what it says on the back?

DRISCOLL: Yea. "This picture was taken when we left the Lima to go ashore at Ponta Delgado."

SHAUL: Yea. When we left the Lima. That's right. That's what it is. I wrote it on there so I wouldn't forget it.

DRISCOLL: That is something.

SHAUL: Two ships were there. There were a hundred and eighteen of us. I got a picture of all of them, too, when we went to, when we first went to that convent, we weren't in prison. But then the Germans took it over.

DRISCOLL: Okay.

[Break in recording]

DRISCOLL: He lives out on the west side somewhere.

SHAUL: Oh, what was his name? I usually know all those guys in World War II.

DRISCOLL: Reinke.

SHAUL: Reinke? There was a Reinke farm out there, west of Madison.

DRISCOLL: I don't know if this family farmed.

SHAUL: I wonder if he is from that farm, or what?

DRISCOLL: But he got to Switzerland and then they locked him up. They didn't put him in jail, but they interned him.

SHAUL: Well, that is what they did to us. Interned us. But they guarded us.

DRISCOLL: They couldn't go anywhere.

SHAUL: No. No, we couldn't, either, unless they took us.

DRISCOLL: He told the story about getting shot down and two or three Austrian women, or young girls, came out and got him. And after the war, he went back. And met them. And they said, "Do you know why we came to get you>?" And he said, "Well, yea, it was cold and you were worried about me." "No, we weren't worried about you. We wanted to get your parachute to make underwear with."

SHAUL: Oh, is that what it was? Well, I suppose. It was silk.

DRISCOLL: Yea. Okay, God, what a remarkable story.

SHAUL: Well, that's what Gayle thought. I told her part of it.

[Interview Ends]