Oral history interview with Urban A. Sippel

DERKS: I think the best place to start is just back to Glenbeulah. Tell us how

you first decided how you might be in the military.

SIPPEL: Well, they drafted me. I went and checked-- I worked on a farm, but my dad only had eighty acres, so that wasn't enough to keep me out. And I just checked when they were gonna-- so then I-- when they drafted me, I went to Fort Sheridan. Yeah.

DERKS: Did you mind that? I mean, everybody was going in.

SIPPEL: No. Well, it was different. But then-- but really, in the Army, there wasn't really that much-- I mean, they were strict, but I was used to it, so it didn't bother me any. And from there they shipped us to Camp Roberts, California, where I took wire communication. And 00:01:00from there, we went to Helena, Montana, for parachute training.

DERKS: When you were doing the-- what did you say? Wire communications?

SIPPEL: Yes.

DERKS: What was that training like?

SIPPEL: Telephone. Telephone.

DERKS: What kind of training did you receive to do that?

SIPPEL: Well, they showed us how to splice wires, lay wires, switchboards. The whole thing. Telephones, field telephones. That was the main thing. Well, plus the basic training we got. Other than that--

DERKS: And then when you went to Montana, was that-- you had already-- that was [inaudible]?

SIPPEL: I volunteered. 00:02:00I volunteered for that. And all I knew then that it was a parachute outfit. Something different, so that's-- And we-- they shipped us from there to Montana. Helena, Montana, and that's where we got, oh, we got parachute training, jumping. And that's where we got mountain training, ski training, demolition training. Hand-to-hand combat. The whole works.

DERKS: Did you enjoy that?

SIPPEL: Well, it was interesting. [Laughs] To me it was interesting because I learned a lot. It was something that-- it wasn't the same thing every day.

DERKS: And you had to learn to ski?

SIPPEL: Oh, yes. They took us up in the mountain and I had never skied. Well, I skied with a board. [Laughs] But they took us up in the mountain and when it ended up, we skied down the mountain. We had guys from-- from Switzerland teaching us how to ski. And they could ski! Like, I mean, it was unbelievable what they did. But we asked them, when did you learn to ski? They didn't know, because in winter, that was their only transportation where they lived.

DERKS: So, they had always skied.

SIPPEL: Yeah.

DERKS: Did you have to learn to ski with a load? With a pack and everything?

SIPPEL: Well, we learned without one, but then we learned to ski

with a pack. It's tricky, but it was interesting to learn. And actually, we skied, when we got done, we skied down the mountain. That was-- I mean, there was times when we went down the road and there was times we went over the banks, and--

DERKS: Everybody make it okay?

SIPPEL: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah.

DERKS: And what was the mountain training like?

SIPPEL: Climbing mountains. We went up cliffs and stuff. Mountain climbing, going up the cliffs.

DERKS: With ropes and all the equipment?

SIPPEL: Yeah, we learned with-- Well, at that time, they didn't have that many ropes. They had a few pegs and tackle.

They didn't have these fancy things at that time. So, it was interesting. And that was one thing I liked about being in the First Special Service Force. They didn't-- you had no time in between. I mean, you were busy from morning till night and when you got to bed, you were tired. So, I mean, that was the nice part we liked about it.

DERKS: Did many people wash out of that training?

SIPPEL: Only one that I know of. And he-- I think he was partially sick, because he just couldn't keep up. That was it. Other than that, nobody.

Because they told us, "If you don't like it, don't complain. All you have to do is say so. And you're out." But they also said, "You'll be shipping overseas tomorrow. You'll be heading overseas." [Laughs] Then you would go to the replacement thing.

DERKS: And what was the paratroop training like? What did you do for that?

SIPPEL: We jumped. Our parachute training, we only had to jump twice to qualify. You took training before. Actually, it's-- oh, most of the time it's like jumping off a four-foot stepladder, and a six-foot stepladder would be a little rougher. But that was all. It all depended on the ground wind.

How you'd swing. In winter the ground is hard. [Laughs]

DERKS: Was it winter when you were training?

SIPPEL: Huh?

DERKS: Was it winter when you were training?

SIPPEL: Yeah, in December. We got there December, first week of December. And we jumped before Christmas. So, it's cold.

DERKS: They didn't wait around. [Inaudible]

SIPPEL: No. Well, that was one thing about that outfit. I mean, we went from one training to the next. I mean, they just-- And some of them even doubled over some of the training. You did this in the morning and that in the afternoon. You didn't have time to think. And the thing-- what helped me is they got up in the morning, early. [Laughs] So, the thing that I was

used to.

DERKS: Did you get pretty close to the people you were training with?

SIPPEL: Yeah, well-- yeah, because-- Actually, in the training, you didn't get as close. Not nowhere's near as close as you did once we got on the front lines. That's when you really got close. Because, I mean, you depended on each other. That's really when you got the closest. I feel kind of bad because I don't really remember anybody's names that I went into training with. You'd think so, but--

DERKS: But you remember the guys you served with once you got over there? Do you remember them?

SIPPEL: No, I don't remember. I mean, names-- because we had quite a turnover.

Because there wasn't-- Well, actually, I don't know how many of those were really left. Because later on, after-- this is getting ahead of myself, but after a while they-- after when the Battle of the Bulge was, they broke us up. We were in southern France then. They broke us up, they put us with the 82nd Airborne. So, lot of space in between there. [Laughs]

DERKS: Let's go back to Montana. How long were you there? How long was-- The other thing I wondered: did you know what you were getting into when you volunteered?

SIPPEL: I knew I was getting into the paratroopers. Not into the Special Service Force, no. I knew I was getting into the paratroopers. But this was a special outfit.

I thought it was really-- And actually, the Canadians, there was no difference, no partiality or nothing between the Canadians and the Americans. I mean, they got together just-- they got along just like everybody-- well, you were with strangers, and everybody was a stranger, but you got along with them all great.

DERKS: Why was it a half-Canadian, half-American outfit?

SIPPEL: I don't know. I don't know. They never told us. They never told us why or what. But we had the training, and this was to land in Germany, and then that was a one-way ticket. And we had to make our way

to Switzerland.

DERKS: And what were you supposed to do when you landed in Germany?

SIPPEL: Blow up a big factory.

DERKS: How many people?

SIPPEL: I really don't know how many people there were in our outfit. We had three -- five companies, but I mean, I never really--

DERKS: And was everybody planning to go into Germany? [Inaudible] the whole force?

SIPPEL: Yeah. The only ones that didn't, we had-- oh, about a half a dozen guys training us that were in World War I. They didn't go with the rest of us. But we didn't go

to that. They didn't tell us too much about it, but they just said-- and that's when we went to Aleutian Islands.

DERKS: So, tell me about shipping out. Do you remember shipping out for that?

SIPPEL: We went to California, and we got onto a Liberty ship. It was loaded light because we had troops on it instead of freight. And it rode like you wouldn't believe. There was times you could-- if went up front, you had to hang on because it was that rough. It would have lifted you right off the floor. And you'd look up and it was all water, then all of a sudden you'd be sticking up there and you can see all over. It was that rough. There was people

that got so sick on there that we had to carry them out. They laid in their bunk and we gave them crackers and water. And if they lifted their shoulders off, that was it. I mean, they just barfed. That's how rough it was. We made it up there.

DERKS: Did you get sick?

SIPPEL: Nope.

DERKS: You didn't?

SIPPEL: [Laughs] No. Well, if you want something to eat you went in the kitchen and got yourself. About the third day out, if you want something to eat you went in the kitchen and got it, fixed it yourself and you could eat. And when you-- well, some of us, quite a few of us, even manned the guns they had on it. Because the Merchant Marines were sick, that were supposed to

run the boat. And up there we were on-- we were on an island and it was all tundra.

DERKS: Up where?

SIPPEL: In the Aleutian Islands. That was all tundra. You could walk on it, it was spongy, and about the fourth guy back was walking in the mud. [Laughs] And the fog, if you think fog is thick here, the fog was so thick when you saw it, it would roll in. Just like a-- you know, like a wall. If you saw it, you charged up your compass and you took a compass reading where you wanted to go. And you handed the guy behind you your rifle. And then you led and he put his hand on your shoulder. If you were more than three feet apart, you couldn't hear anybody, it was just muffled. It

was that thick. You couldn't see him. That's how thick. But-- but it was in summer, but it was daylight till the wee hours of the morning. Well, it never really got dark, because we could-- we could stand outside and shave at ten o'clock at night. So--

DERKS: And what were you doing there?

SIPPEL: We were preparing to land on the next island. And they made a landing on the next island-- our company didn't because we were-- sat back for reinforcements. But they landed there, but there were no Japanese there. The Japanese had evacuated it. So, after that, then we came back. Went to California.

DERKS: How long were you up in the Aleutians?

SIPPEL: Probably

a couple months at the most.

DERKS: So, that one was easy. [Laughs]

SIPPEL: Yeah, [laughs] all we did was sat in a-- sat in a hangar. Waited. If they'd have needed reinforcements, we would have had to jump. But then--

DERKS: Oh, did they jump in? Did they fly over? They didn't even-- they went by boat?

SIPPEL: No, they shipped ashore. They went in.

DERKS: But you were going to follow and jump if they encountered resistance?

SIPPEL: Yeah. If they needed it, we would have jumped for reinforcement. They didn't need us.

DERKS: So, you went back to California?

SIPPEL: Well, we went to California then they gave us nine days to go to Vermont, across the States.

DERKS: By train?

SIPPEL: We picked our own way. They just gave you a ticket.

Whichever way you could go, if you could-- well, at that time, once in a while you could get a plane that was going. The Army was going. We all went with a train.

DERKS: Did you go by that USO stop that was-- all the trains would stop at? Where was it, North Dakota or something?

SIPPEL: No, we didn't.

DERKS: No, you didn't do that.

SIPPEL: No. I don't remember that it was there.

DERKS: So, you got to Vermont.

SIPPEL: Yep. That's where we-- well, I won't say that. But when we got there, I don't know why, but we got there about the middle of the week and officer told us Friday, tomorrow morning, we are going on a twenty-mile non-stop run.

Full pack. Rifles. But at the same time, they told us that if we got-- if the whole platoon had to make it, not just one, if one dropped out, that whole platoon was out. But if you all made it, they would take us to town, and we didn't have to be back till Monday. We made it. [Laughs] It was quite a few of them-- well, not quite a few, but there was a lot of them didn't because what we did, we ran maybe a mile or so before breakfast and we tightened up our shoes, where some of them didn't. Some of them had took their shoes off, blood came out. Their blisters were that bad.

And then from there on, then we went to Virginia Beach. We took training there, but nothing-- nothing special. Just kept us in shape. And we went to Virginia Beach and took ship-to-shore training.

DERKS: And what is that training?

SIPPEL: That's-- you're on a big ship and they put a net down and you climb down and you get in the rubber boats going to shore. That, I mean, that was training that we did. And we used it when we hit southern France, but then that's later on. That's when we used it. And we really-- in Italy we-- from there we went to New York,

got on a boat, that was the Empress of Scotland at that time. That's the only thing I remember. And that was a ship that was-- it was a luxury ship. But they were hauling troops, and I have no idea how many troops they had on it because our whole outfit was on and they had officers, they had nurses, and WACs on it. And all kinds, all different. And we went to Africa.

DERKS: When is this? Do you know? Like, is this '43? '44? It wouldn't have been '44. Was it '43? '42?

SIPPEL: Um-- see one second. I was inducted in-- I don't remember what year. But then--

DERKS: But D-Day hadn't happened yet,

had it?

SIPPEL: D-Day?

DERKS: Had D-Day happened already when you went over?

SIPPEL: Oh, you mean--

DERKS: The invasion?

SIPPEL: In?

DERKS: In Europe?

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. See, they had gone through Africa before that. And I think, if I'm not mistaken, they were in Sicily and they had to land--

DERKS: In Italy?

SIPPEL: In Italy. They landed in Italy. They were up, oh, quite a ways up in Italy. That's when we started getting into it. There was a big mountain there. Well, there was a--like, two-- there was a mountain on the opposite side in the middle where they had a big

sixteen-inch gun. It was a valley going down and there was mountains on both sides and they split. And that's when we got into it. Got into the mountains. And the first mountain we went up, we started out at three o'clock in the morning and we didn't get up till late in the afternoon. Steady climbing. But we had-- we were loaded with, well, everybody had at least between fifty- and sixty-pound packs. Plus ammunition we carried. And we all made it up there. I almost didn't. I was going up and all of a sudden, a guy hollered, "A rock!" And I looked

and I saw it. I turned my back, and it caught my pack. And I went down about twenty feet, rolled down, got back up and went up. There was a lieutenant there and he said, "God," he says, "I thought you were going to be the first casualty." He says, "You really did a good job of rolling." I didn't lose nothing. He made the remark, he says, "Hey," he says, "You hung onto your rifle." I says, "Oh, yes." [Laughs] But I went up from there on.

DERKS: That's kind of tough to roll with a big pack on your back, isn't it?

SIPPEL: Well, it has its advantages because it's a good cushion. [Laughs] And the backpack we had was comfortable. If you landed on it, on your back, I mean, it didn't

hurt your back at all. So, it was-- Then, well, when we got to the top of the mountain, that's when we started getting into the gunfire and stuff.

DERKS: That was your first time?

SIPPEL: Yep. I mean, it was-- I learned one whole lot that first time. It was quite a few times-- I thank the guy that was in World War I. He gave us hints. You know, you throw the book away, he says. And that's when I decided I was not going to be an officer after that. 'Cause even that first time up there, we lost some.

It was just-- and after that was when I-- well, from there we went, kept going-- and actually--

DERKS: Why was it so hard on the officers? Why were they killed so often?

SIPPEL: Because, okay, because when-- if you saw people, I mean, the enemy, if you saw somebody giving orders, that's the first one you shot. That's the first one you shot. You made sure you got that one, because that disturbed them a lot. The German Army was very much in a routine. If you pushed them back, if you stopped in the morning, they would probably come back in the afternoon and counter it. But if you went and stopped

in the afternoon, they wouldn't come back till the next morning. Where we didn't go a routine. I mean, but our biggest traveling was at night, in the mountains. We would go to this mountain and then you'd pick your path where you're going to go to the next one, going up. And then during the night you would go to the next mountain. And we were quite a spearhead outfit because, like, where we were, there was a valley between this, that big mountain, and we'd go up and then we'd come down the mountain, down the face of the mountain and cut off the Germans. And then the infantry would come up the-- through the valley. That's where-- that's probably

the biggest thing we did.

DERKS: So, they drove them right up the valley toward you?

SIPPEL: Until-- Well, we'd cut 'em off and then they would come up there. And then we'd go back up the mountain, take the next one. This is what we did.

DERKS: So, how do you climb up or down the mountain at night?

SIPPEL: You pick your way real good during the day. We stayed at the top of the mountain and then you picked your way. I mean, we didn't always-- everyday we'd get the next mountain. But whenever we had to move, that's when they told us we had to move, that's when we went to the top and picked our way which way we're gonna go up. And after we got past

this one mountain where they had the sixteen-inch gun, when they knocked that out, then we came back-- well, I came back and I had pneumonia when I came off the front. Although in that mountain, when we were up there, most of the time we lived on a half a K-ration a day and a half a canteen of water, a day. Because it took so long to pack up the stuff. Which-- didn't mind it. I mean, it was surprising that. I mean, you can go on that for months. Most of the time towards the end we'd get more, but there was a lot of days we were on a half a K-ration a day, which is a little box,

and you'd split it between another guy and you. [Tape recording cuts] But--And, well, when we came back from there, I had pneumonia. And I went in the hospital. Came off the mountain. And all the rest of the guys were at rest. They had-- I was in the hospital, and when I got out of the hospital, I says, "Hey," I says, "About time I get back in shape." "Yeah, you will." We landed in Anzio.

DERKS: Before that, did you come off because you were sick or just your unit came off?

SIPPEL: No. No. Well, see, we were-- we weren't in these mountains steady. Every once in a while, we would come back and have a rest for two, three weeks. Then we'd go back up.

DERKS: And were you feeling

bad when you came back? You knew you were sick?

SIPPEL: Well, we got back on a-- which is unusual-- well, actually, when we came back down the mountain, we brought a stretcher back with us. A person on the stretcher. Six of us. And there were some of the places you went down where you hung onto the rope and brought 'em down. And I think this is probably where I got it, because sometimes you'd sweat-- and then again, it was cold. But I was the only one that got pneumonia, but don't ask me why.

DERKS: How do you-- how do you bring a stretcher down when you're hanging on to a rope? I mean, if you're on the side hanging onto the rope, what's the other side doing?

SIPPEL: Well, one hand on the rope and one under the stretcher. Well, there was times

you slid on your seat coming down. And the guy was tied on real good. So, yeah. It was a challenge, but we had guys that-- that would bring up food and water and take stretchers down. Had regular crews that did that.

DERKS: And that's why you had so little food was because they had to bring it up and they could only carry so much.

SIPPEL: If you want to think of something hard to carry, we did it. I've done it, too. But the worse thing to carry is five gallons of water. And you know the Army five-gallon bucket, how heavy it is empty? Well, you have to fill

it solid full of water, otherwise you can't go up the mountain. If it's sloshes, it will throw you off. And that was the worst thing to carry up because it was so heavy. I don't know how many pounds it was, but I know it was heavy. Those mountains in Italy there, we didn't have-- we had packs, people that packed it up. Anzio, that was different.

DERKS: Yeah, tell me about Anzio.

SIPPEL: That-- well, that-- It was flat country. They had drainage ditches in there. Some big ones, some small ones. We were on the southern end of it, from the ocean

out. We were on-- that was perfectly flat. But we were behind the ditch. We were there quite a while. We were dug in. In fact, we had foxholes where we could sit in. Well, you made it where you could sit in and then one guy slept on each side. And we had covers over the top, because they strafed us a lot. We had covers over the top.

DERKS: They strafed you? The airplanes would come over and strafe you?

SIPPEL: Yeah. Yeah, we had one-- every once in a while, he-- you never knew when he was coming. But, I mean-- and they would come real low. They would come maybe, maybe twenty-five to thirty feet up in the air and strafe us. So, if we-- anybody heard it, everybody went and made sure you were duckin'.

That one-- that one we finished him off because one time he strafed, and he strafed our hospital, and that's when we decided we're gonna get him. We did. Everybody sat with a rifle and when he came over, everybody shot. And that did it. We knocked him out. He never came after that. It must have been just one guy that came.

DERKS: It was okay for him to strafe you and shoot at you, but once he went for the hospital, then you were gonna get him. [Laughs]

SIPPEL: That was it. There was no more of that. Hospital was important to us, you know. [Laughs]

DERKS: You'd think having somebody strafe you would be a bit annoying, too.

SIPPEL: The thing is the hospital had no protection. It was just in tents.

So, I mean, that-- yeah.

DERKS: Speaking of protection, you said you had a cover over your foxhole, but that wouldn't protect you.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah.

DERKS: It would protect you?

SIPPEL: Yeah. We put enough brush-- well, we had logs and anything that was around. This was-- where we were was back aways and there was woods. Not that many woods, but scrubby trees, you might say. And that's what we used. Other than that, the only thing there was we used to catch a lot of-- I did, a lot of patrol work. Because I could speak German. I didn't tell the Army that. My grandpa couldn't speak English. So, if we talked to him, it was all German. But where I was from,

it was probably ninety percent German, and all the old people talked German. But I didn't tell the Army because when we were training, they asked, and this one guy asked me and said something in German to me and I looked at him and, "Hey, that's not German," as far as I was--. But he learned German in school, which is the high German. And that I-- I mean, I had to really pay attention to what he was talking about, it was so different. So, I didn't say nothing. I thought, well, you know, 'cause they were looking for people that could talk German, you know, in headquarters. And headquarters wasn't my thing. [Laughs]

DERKS: Why wasn't headquarters your thing?

SIPPEL: Sitting back there-- I wanted to be where you were doing something. Like in California, that was my biggest problem. I drove for the colonel and all I had to do was drive him - well, I had to get him up in the morning, took him to breakfast, I'd go in the back and get breakfast. And anyplace he wanted to go. And there was times I had two, three, four hours with nothing to do. And that-- what do you do, you know? And the biggest thing there was, I had a car that I was driving, a Chevrolet four-door car. And you were responsible for that car. Anybody that would want to go anywhere, 'cause I could

go to a private filling station and get gas, or if I drove in anywhere, I got deluxe service because I was driving the colonel. So, if anybody would want to take off, that would have been the car to take. So, you had to keep that car in sight all the time, except when it was in the motor pool, when you turned it in at night. So, I mean, it was a lot of responsibility. I didn't mind that as much as that sitting, doing nothing. That is not me. I mean, I just didn't like it, that's all.

DERKS: When you were at Anzio, what was going on patrol like?

SIPPEL: Well, most of the time they'd send us back to see where an artillery gun was. And we would go back

and find out, knock it out. I mean, come back and tell 'em where it was, and the artillery would knock it out.

DERKS: So, they knew it was out there shooting somewhere and it was your job to go out and locate it?

SIPPEL: Locate it and then come back. I mean, that was not only me, I mean, that was different ones. I caught it probably more than a lot of them did.

DERKS: How did it help you to speak German?

SIPPEL: Because I could hear when the Germans were talking and I knew what they were saying. [Laughs] After I talked to-- well, when we got prisoners, I talked to them, and they talked just like my grandpa. It was just, hey. Actually, it was easier for me to get along in Italy

because all the kids knew German. They had to learn German. Now, that German I could understand, that they learned. But the High German, that wasn't my thing. We went up one night, we were supposed to-- well, they figured they had an outpost in a building, so three of us went and we got caught. There was an intersection there and a two-story stone house sitting there. We were going and all of a sudden, hoop, they threw up a flare. And we were between the house and the road. And they shot over our head and threw mortars at us. And they kept-- The guy in front of me,

he says, "Every man for himself!" So, when the flares were down, we took off and went back. Well, that was what we wanted to find out, where their outpost was. And it was in that stone house. So, we went back and told. But they had machine guns. It was a crossroad and they had machine guns sitting on the other side of the road. And they were shooting. We were lucky we were lower down. They were shooting over our heads. So, when we went back, that's where our training was something because you have-- I mean, when they shoot up a flare, you could hear it when they would shoot it. Then you have so many seconds and then it opens up. So, that's the time you had to move, in between that. We went back,

and when we got back, we told 'em what we hit. They said, yeah, they could see it from the frontline. The next night we went-- well, one guy caught a mortal shell on his leg, a dud. It bruised his leg. So, the next night, one guy took a bunch from the opposite side of that one road. I was on the other side, and we led 'em up and they blew up that house. Demolition went in, and what was really funny is, when they said, "fire in the hole" and they came out, here there was a guy upstairs with a flashlight sending signals. We went right back then, as soon as

it blew. Well, when it blew, we were on our way back already. The next day, that two-story stone house was just a pile of rubble. We were wondering what happened to the guy up there sending signals. [Laughs] Which, you know, it was something to laugh about. But I mean-- Shortly after that, then we-- we went from there, we headed towards Rome. And then just before Rome-- well, we traveled for three days steady. I was lucky 'cause I could-- If we stopped for a break, I could take a nap. I could sleep--

DERKS: You were one of those guys, huh?

SIPPEL: Yeah, I can take a nap anytime if I'm tired.

When we got up there-- so we went-- so we went this far on this one hill and we went on the backside of the hill. Lieutenant says, he says, "You know where you're going?" I looked at him, I said, "No." He says-- I knew what he-- I had to go out on outpost with another guy. That was in front of our line, you stick out in the front. This was late in the afternoon when we stopped. And they said they're calling back tomorrow, and he says, "It's gonna be a good one." Because we pushed quite a ways. So, I sat there all night, stayed awake. Well, not all night, because we took off. I took a nap right away, 'cause this guy was a little greenhorn. Wasn't as good

at staying awake. Then in the morning, and in the morning when he-- all of a sudden, I nudged him, "hey," I motioned to him go back and warn them to wake up the front line to make sure they were awake, 'cause they were coming, you could hear 'em coming. And when he got back, they started firing, shootin' over my head which-- I was down in the hole. And all of a sudden, the guy hollered, "Outpost, come on in." When he said that, the gun behind you stopped shooting and you came in, and that's when I got in the foxhole and that's when I got hurt. Mortar shell landed about that far away from me. [Laughs] [Sound of Sippel rubbing his hand over the microphone]

I had shrapnel all over. I still have shrapnel in my lung. Three little pieces. That's when I went to the hospital. Another time when I was really lucky, I went to the hospital-- well, actually, when I got hurt, all the sudden, "Hey, there's something wrong here." I wasn't breathing. The air was coming out through the wound, out of my lung. So, I took my patch and held it over the wound, and I started breathing through my mouth. So, then--

DERKS: So, that was the only thing that let you know you had been hurt?

SIPPEL: Well, no, I could feel it. You can feel it when you get hit. I had shrapnel all over

my face and everything. It was all fine stuff. Like the little pellets are maybe only a sixteenth-inch round.

DERKS: [to cameraman] Did you get this microphone?

CAMERAMAN: Yeah.

DERKS: Could you tell us again about not-- about the air because when you put your hand up there, you hit the microphone. So, it will be-- [inaudible].

SIPPEL: I took the bandage, the Ace bandage that you carry, and I held it over the wound to stop the air from going in and out. When the gunning-- when the shelling slowed down a little, I was gonna get up and walk. I was gettin' kind of weak. And a guy grabbed me and, you know, like horseback, carried me back to the first aid station. Then they came back,

then they came with a jeep, took me to the hospital, to the front-line hospital. That was a hospital that was in tents. I slept for a week. [Laughs] I didn't know what was going on. But those nurses were unbelievable, how dedicated they were. They just-- I couldn't complain a bit. The only bad thing, after I woke up, I looked at-- here's a young nurse sitting on the edge of my bed and I couldn't move my hands. [Laughs] My arms. I told her that. She just laughed. Although I went on and off. You wake up in between that. But when I really woke up, I was there I think two or three weeks,

and they shipped me to another hospital.

DERKS: What did they have to do to you?

SIPPEL: They took the shrapnel out and they bandaged-- I had a bandage from here up, an airtight bandage. When I got out of there, they told me, "Oh," he says, "You have to go to rehab." And I said, "No I don't. I'm going back to my outfit." Well, I had-- I knew wire communication enough, so when I was ready to get out, I called-- called there, and I knew our outfit was still there, so I says, "No, I'm going back to my outfit." And the sergeant says, "You have to go to rehabilitation." I says, "No, I don't." So, I called our lieutenant, he says, "I'll have a jeep

for you there, right now." [Laughs] He came and got me. Because, well, he knew me, so I mean, it was just--

DERKS: You would have been better than a green replacement.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. Oh, yes. I was back there about a week and then we hit southern France. [Laughs]

DERKS: Do you remember when the mortar hit? [Inaudible] Tell me about that.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. I saw it. I mean, I didn't see it coming. But as soon as it hit, I didn't go unconscious or nothing. Because as-- as far as shells hitting close, that was no-- I mean, I was-- Actually, we had a lieutenant colonel.

I knew him. I have no idea what his name is. But he used to come up and talk to me because I could get information out of the prisoners that headquarters couldn't, 'cause I sat down and gabbed with them. But really, I was-- when I talked with them, I was more interested in how Hitler could control these people, like the SS troopers. They were soldiers. You didn't take those prisoners. You had to kill them, because I mean, they were just that dedicated a soldier. This is what I was quite interested in. Because they were, you know-- And there was a lot of those in the Army that didn't want this war anymore.

They didn't want to be in the Army any more than we did but they had to. I mean, that was it. And their-- most of their army, they all-- even the ones that we took prisoner, they were positive. They were positive that we were going to kill them. And I mean, these guys were shocked when I sat there and talked to them, but I mean, it was just-- But Hitler convinced people that we killed all our-- we didn't take prisoners. Which was-- But that was part of his controlling.

DERKS: So, it was really no different than talking to your relatives?

SIPPEL: No, it was, it was-- it was just unbelievable.

But I suppose it's, well, there was people that didn't go to school anymore. Like the SS troopers, they all had more education, but they had a lot of privileges, too. So, yeah, well, we landed in southern France. Then we went up a mountain.

DERKS: How did you land in southern France? I mean, did you get there by ship again?

SIPPEL: Ship-to-shore. Ship-to-shore, yeah. Then we went to the right and-- well, we went past Monte Carlo, and we went up in the mountain.

We were on-- we went-- our front stayed at the Italian and French border. That was on top of the mountain. That's where the border was. We were there for quite a while. That's how I learned how to pack up ammunition. Well, we didn't have to pack up too much ammunition. It was mostly food and water that we had to pack up. But that mountain, from where the packs were where the stuff was, water would take about fourteen hours to take up, and the food and anything else, that-- you could make that in about eight, ten hours.

DERKS: We saw those photos of donkeys. You didn't have donkeys?

SIPPEL: They had 'em, but we didn't. We didn't have any.

That was a supply outfit that had that. That was from where the donkeys quit, [laughs] where these donkeys went. [Laughs] Actually, we were there quite a while on that mountain. At first, we caught a little-- we could-- got a little bit of fire, but not much. All of a sudden, it was-- yeah, you very seldom saw anything. Even anybody moving down there. And that's when-- when Normandy-- they must have took all his troops up at Normandy. And when they brought us back off of there, they said, "No," he says, "You're gonna get a rest." Came back for a rest. We says, "Great. We could go to Nice

and Cannes." Which was pretty good. Then they says, "Oh, great." So, we took off during the night. They said, "Everybody back in camp." Next morning, we left-- left for-- went up to northern France. That was when the Battle of the Bulge was. And they wheeled us up there.

DERKS: Does that mean by truck? They trucked you?

SIPPEL: No, train. When we got up there, I had no idea why they did it, but that's when they threw us in with the 82nd Airborne. I don't know why we couldn't stay the way we were. But our outfit at that time was

at less than half strength, because we didn't get too many replacements. So, from there on, we were with the 82nd.

DERKS: And what was that like? Was it different?

SIPPEL: I don't even really want to talk about it. It was so different, it was unbelievable. The way they did things and the way we did things. And there was quite a-- quite a bit of friction, because for one thing, we had more points. You know, you went by points, and we had more points than they did. Plus, I would say ninety percent of them in our outfit were officers, you know,

sergeants, captains. I was corporal then. When I got out of the hospital, I was corporal. And I told them to shove it. They didn't hear nothin'. But when I got in the 82nd, they were real-- they didn't like us because almost everyone that was in, that came in there, were officers. You know, sergeants and stuff like that, corporals. They couldn't make any of their guys, because they were allotted so many sergeants or so many corporals. I mean, it was a lot of friction between them. It wasn't so bad after a while. [Tape recording cuts] They didn't-- I mean after a while the guys that we were with

were alright because they depended on us. We had more experience than what they did.

DERKS: Well, what was the-- It seems like the Special Forces, they just threw you in wherever it was tough.

SIPPEL: Yeah. That was-- that was-- our main thing was spearheading things. And actually, the Battle of the Bulge, after we were with them, we went through a valley when we went against the Germans, when we started moving. We went through a valley. That was-- nobody ate anything or drank any water

for two days, because there was bodies laying there that were a month old. And it was terrible, the stench. And that was through that big forest.

DERKS: Oh, the Ardennes?

SIPPEL: Yeah, through that forest there. We went down the road and that was-- that was the-- as far as I was concerned, that was the worst. We didn't hit any Germans but, I mean, as far as the fighting, but going through there was-- was about as bad as I've ever-- I mean, well, it was. I mean, it was just-- the stench was horrible.

DERKS: Was it both armies or was it--

SIPPEL: It was both.

But they hadn't picked up the dead yet.

DERKS: 'Cause it had been in flux the whole time, back and forth?

SIPPEL: Yeah. So, but after that, I mean, it wasn't that hard because we didn't hit that much resistance. Far as we were concerned, after we got through there-- well, after we got through there, the second day after we got through it, they had a shower unit, and we came with a complete set of new clothes. 'Cause that shower unit, when they had the front-line shower unit, you would go in, you left your clothes here, your personal things you put in a bag, and you went through the shower and when you came out, they handed you all clean clothes. Not new, but clean

clothes. That was the way they-- After that we started so we could eat and drink water. But going through there was just--

DERKS: Clean clothes must have felt good.

SIPPEL: Oh, yes, they did. [Laughs] After that they really-- we had shoes and everything. The only thing that we kept was personal things. That was it. And then from there on, I mean, it was just-- And then, well, the next where we hit anything-- well, we didn't hit that much, but it was when we went across the Rhine River. There, I mean, it was-- we had an interesting thing there. We lost the switchboard

but there was some engineers who were standing on the bank of the river up high and the guy hollered, "Get the hell off of there!" Because you knew you were gonna draw fire. And we had a switchboard right there, right in the house, right where they were in front of it. And we says-- another guy and me, we were wire communication then, we were laying wire for it and stuff. We says, "This is it, goodbye." And we heard one shell going over the top of us and that was a warning, hey, get out of there. But the poor guy on switchboard couldn't. He had to stay. And when they got done, the house where he was in was leveled. We just went back, when we got so

far away then we called up and told 'em, send us up another switchboard. And actually, after that, after we-- well, there, the river we went, that was-- the water was about waist high, where we went across. And it was real fast. And a guy swam across, went across, put a rope across, and he held on to the rope, went across. And really, I was surprised when we got across there and I thought, "Ooh, now we're gonna get into Germany," you know. The German. Oh, we had gone through Belgium and Holland, and those people were real good to us. They, I mean, you could talk-- well, you could always talk to the kids because they

had to learn German. And when I-- when we got into Germany I thought, "Oh, this is gonna be rough." And it wasn't. I mean, those people were so happy to see us. They said they were so glad. They were, "Are you sure you're gonna stay?" I said, "We haven't backed up this far and," I says, "Ae ain't about to." And they says, "Great. Then the war will finally be over with." That's the attitude the German people had. I mean, they were--

DERKS: Were they surprised when you would come up and start chatting with them?

SIPPEL: Well, it was really-- the thing that surprised me as much as anything is when I heard them talking, it was the same dialect that I had.

I mean, Germany has a few different dialects. But all the lower German is-- I can understand all of it. From there we went right up to where we met the Russians. We didn't-- well, we had a guy in our outfit that could talk Russian. And he went up and-- the officer went up. We didn't. Well, some of the guys went over there, but they weren't very impressed with--. But I had known, because I talked to German prisoners, and they said the Russian army wasn't nothing like ours. Well, when we came back, here's just guns laying there, you know, from a guy getting hurt. Well, nobody picked the gun up, they just kept going. And they couldn't imagine that we had guns laying around there. [Laughs]

And he said, the Russians, the front line has guns, the second line has ammunition, and the third line has sticks. Clubs. Where I mean, hey, we had .45 on us and an M-1 on us, all of us. So, I mean-- And we never ran out of ammunition because we carried enough, because like I say, we were in good enough shape. But that was the biggest problem with the infantry, when they went up the mountains. By the time they got up to the top, they had shed everything. Ammunition is heavy. And it's clumsy. But, I mean, they ran out of ammunition. Where when we got up there, we didn't. We didn't shed nothing.

We had all.

DERKS: You knew you were gonna need it.

SIPPEL: Yeah. To us, that was the main thing, is ammunition. I know they said we had bayonets and they taught us how to use them. We informed them that if we had needed bayonets, we weren't gonna be-- [laughs]. But that didn't mean nothing. There was times we had to put the bayonet on, but never used it, 'cause we always had enough ammunition.

DERKS: You never ran out of ammunition?

SIPPEL: No. Never. Because if we knew it was rough, we had a belt that was full of ammunition. And then we'd hang an extra bandolier of ammunition we'd carry. So, we had, like, what the ammunition belt carried, we had twice as much. So,

we just never shed that. That was-- so.

DERKS: So, did you ever run low? Were you in firefights that you'd-- [inaudible]

SIPPEL: No, I never ran low. Well, the time when I got hurt, there, the machine guns-- they asked for ammunition. When I was back there, I heard 'em said they wanted ammunition. But that was only the ones in back brought the ammunition up. It wasn't that they were running short or nothin'.

DERKS: I was thinking about that when you were talking about going out looking for that observation post and the machine guns was shooting over your head. That was at night, right?

SIPPEL: Yeah.

DERKS: So, did they have tracers? Were the tracers flying over your head?

SIPPEL: Yeah, you could-- well, actually, you can

tell when that bullet goes over your head after a while. You can tell when the bullet goes over your head how high it is above you. You can hear it. And actually, like in the mountains, if somebody shot at me twice, the third time I could pinpoint where the-- because you can see when somebody's shooting at you. You can see the gun flash. If you look-- know where to look. And a lot of times even the second time, 'cause just the way the bullet went over your head and how long between the bullet and you heard the gun go off, that was how far away he was. And you could judge the direction where it was coming from.

DERKS: So, if they didn't get you on the first two, they were in trouble.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Well, if they didn't get me for the first one, I was moving. But even when I was moving, if I found a place to duck, if he shot one more time, that was it. Because you could see the gun flash. And you were looking for him. You were prepared.

DERKS: What a skill.

SIPPEL: [Laughs] Oh, yeah. Even when the artillery shells came over, if one came over-- well, most of the time-- well, I directed some of the artillery, too. If you shot, the first round would go over most of the time. And most of the time the second one went short. Or it went one way or the other. Well, you could figure the line between where that one landed and this one,

this is where you're gonna get hit in between. Actually, you had a few minutes. I mean, not a few minutes, maybe only a second, but it seemed-- it gave you enough time to get out of the way. It's just like when the first shell came over where the switchboard was. The other guy and me, we were gone when that first shell hit 'cause we knew the next one was gonna be real close.

DERKS: But you can't leave that switchboard, huh? The operator has to be there?

SIPPEL: Oh, no. The operator has to be there. I mean, if he'd have went one minute earlier or later it wouldn't have made any difference because the switchboard was out. But that was just-- that was the rules. In case that house wouldn't have got hit, well, he would've still had a--

DERKS: When you were calling in artillery, you were in the forward observation? Did you have a hard line with you, the telephone?

SIPPEL: A telephone, yeah. We used the telephone. Well, we had-- most of the time we carried-- when I was in wire communication, we had a telephone we carried along because we'd have to test the lines. If the lines went out, we'd follow the line and tested it. And actually, that was the most dangerous job because you hoped somebody didn't cut it and was waiting for you.

DERKS: They'd cut the line and wait for you to come and fix it?

SIPPEL: Oh, sure. We lost a couple of guys that way.

But that was part of what you had to learn.

DERKS: But you didn't come back and go to work for the telephone company.

SIPPEL: Nope. Well, actually, when we came back, it was hard to get any job because these all came back at the same time. And even where I was working, I went there to get a job and he says, he says, "Do you know," he says, "there's forty of them ahead of you." You know, that were there longer than I was.

DERKS: What job was that?

SIPPEL: I worked in a cheese house in Plymouth. It was just hard to find, yeah.

But I ended up-- ended up-- I went to West Bend, worked in the West Bend Aluminum.

DERKS: So, tell me about coming back. When did you get the word that you were shipping out?

SIPPEL: Well, actually, like-- oh, well this is something. Before-- about a day, two days, before they-- in Germany, they signed it, we had a solid line of people coming into our lines, coming through our-- there was a solid line, like on a blacktop road, that was solid full for a whole day before that. And we had

prisoners up to our ears. Well, we had about a five-acre field was solid full of people that we put 'em in. And actually, we fed them. First couple of days we only fed them one meal a day. They brought a kitchen up, fed 'em. And after a while they fed 'em-- they fed 'em two meals a day, that was it. And then they shipped us back. Then after they broke that up, left them all go. I don't know where they went, we says, "We're goin' home. We don't care where you're going." But we went home.

DERKS: So, basically they just

released them?

SIPPEL: Just left them go.

DERKS: Because the armistice had been signed and the war was over there.

SIPPEL: Yeah, the war was over. And we fed 'em for probably about a week. And we started headin' home.

DERKS: Yeah, I think they had to get all those young guys with guns out of there. [Sippel laughs] Because there wasn't any more fighting to do, huh?

SIPPEL: Well, actually, you know where the worst tension was? The last-- oh, I would say, two, three weeks of fighting. After we got into Germany is when everyone was scared. "I don't want to get hurt now. I want to go home." It was probably when the most tension was on. We didn't have to do that much fighting, but it was just--

the tension of after all this time, I don't want to get-- well, including me. I mean, after all this fighting, I didn't want to get-- get hurt the last-- when it was just about over. And actually, after the Battle of the Bulge when we got up there, it-- I mean, we were quite comfortable. It was pretty much over with. I mean, it was just-- You'd encounter one once in a while, but that was-- it was nothing to amount to. It was just-- we covered the territory. Actually, part of that time we even lived in houses.

DERKS: Slept in a bed?

SIPPEL: [Laughs] Yeah.

Yeah, that was-- Other than that--

DERKS: Where was it the worst? You were in a lot of bad places. Which one was the worst?

SIPPEL: Probably-- oh, I don't know. Probably Anzio was as bad as any of them. And until I got hurt. And then southern France wasn't-- that was before D-Day. And it wasn't-- well, sure, but the big thing, when we hit southern France, there was a lot of tunnels

and stuff in the mountains there. But the French helped us. They knew where they were and where the Germans were. So, I mean, it helped us a lot. We didn't lose too many. In fact, after Anzio, we didn't lose too many. We didn't lose too many of 'em.

DERKS: I suppose the French were really happy to see you, too.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

DERKS: So, what did you think when you got on that ship?

SIPPEL: Ha ha. Well, we were hoping there wasn't some stray submarine out there that didn't know it was over with. [Laughs] Really, we thought of that. What if there is some stray submarine that doesn't know the war is over with?

[Laughs]

DERKS: Was the ship pretty crowded?

SIPPEL: Oh, yes. It was very crowded. You slept in shifts. And actually, that was-- and actually-- well, it was a strain though because, I mean, we were packed in so much. And the tension was quite high, you know, 'cause we had-- well, I was actually in the frontline about two years. And we had guys in there that was in there more. We had a couple of guys I knew that were in Africa. And they went through Sicily and Italy and all that. So, I mean,

they really-- we were just, I don't know, happy it was over with.

DERKS: You got pretty good at taking care of yourself, didn't you?

SIPPEL: That was-- that was-- after that first-- after that first encounter when we were in that mountain and a couple mountains after that where we stayed in, that's when I decided I was not going to be an officer. [Laughs]

DERKS: Yeah, you mentioned the guy that-- you were thankful for the guy from World War I who gave you the hints. What kind of hints were those?

SIPPEL: The biggest thing he said was throw the book away. And he says, "The biggest thing," he says, "You do not, if you're up there, you do not call anybody's name or nothing.

Even the officers." You, you know, you do not call them by name or nothing. You can call them anything but. And definitely you don't, "Hey, Joe." That was the one, if you said, "Hey, Joe," there was a possibility of getting shot, because that was the German's prime, "Hey, Joe." I mean, if you heard that, that wasn't one of ours. So, I mean, it was just-- 'cause that was one thing. Another thing-- well, the thing that scared me probably as much as anything after I got home is you do not touch me on the shoulder, because the tension was so high. Over there, nobody

snuck up on you. If somebody came, they were talking. And they wouldn't call you by name, but they were talking. Because if you'd've touched, if you'd've touched me on the shoulder, very good possibility you wouldn't have walked. Because the training was that tense.

DERKS: You didn't look to see who it was?

SIPPEL: No. You didn't hesitate. You didn't nothin'. Nobody snuck up from the back. At all. At any time. All while we were in the front. If you came up back of somebody, you talked to them. If you gotta come up from the back. I mean, it didn't make any difference what you said, but just so you talked.

DERKS: And I don't think we're aware

of that. The fact that you were so close to the enemy all the time.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah.

DERKS: They could be behind that tree or around that rock or anywhere.

SIPPEL: Well, we were on patrol one night. This is in the mountains, and we thanked the Germans for having these cleats on their shoes. They had steel cleats on their heels, and we heard them coming. We were on outpost going someplace, so we just stepped off the path and got on the side of them, and they walked past us. While they were behind us, we heard behind us. And we were going the same direction, and all we did was duck on the side, and they walked past us. They never heard us. They never knew we were there. But I mean it was-- You

depended on your ears and your eyes very much, because that was what kept you going.

DERKS: Did you do much night fighting?

SIPPEL: Our--well, mornings we did more. When we'd hit, it would be when it was just before daylight. And that's when we were more effective because-- because for the simple reason you could sneak up on 'em and-- 'cause most of ours, we'd get there during the night and in the morning, when they'd just--

DERKS: So, you could sneak up on them, but then it got light enough once you were

into it to see what you were doing.

SIPPEL: Yeah. And you could-- I don't know, you could sense a lot. I don't know why. I know some guy says, "Oh, hell, you can smell them." But, I mean, that wasn't the case, but it was just-- it was just-- But the tension was so high that, like I said, if you touched me on the shoulder, look out.

DERKS: You were a finely-honed fighting machine.

SIPPEL: Well, actually, when we took commando training, hand-to-hand combat, they first started out with retractable knives. When we got done, they used real ones and come at you. So, I mean,

it was-- which, hey, it didn't hurt us any. You just made sure you didn't. But that's the actual fighting. You're going to--we never, I mean, I never ran into it. A couple guys did, but I didn't.

DERKS: So, what did you carry? What was your whole outfit? You had an M-1 and a .45? Tell me what you--[inaudible]

SIPPEL: And a combat knife that was made with razor steel. The blade was sharp, and it had a little knob on the back. It would pierce somebody's head if they didn't have their helmet on. But-- but it was razor sharp. We carried that all the time. I never had to resort

to that but thank God. I was real happy that I didn't have to. It was an experience. I'm not-- I'm not regretting it. Well, I do get a little pension, yeah, but I mean, not-- minimum. I didn't get any when I came out of the army. [Tape recording cuts] No, if we had replacements, if they made it through three days, or the first week, after that, we probably lost probably fifty percent of them in the first three days, because they didn't duck at the right time.

DERKS: They just didn't know all the signals that you knew.

SIPPEL: No, no. I mean, you know.

It's-- well, it's-- you don't have-- like, when a shell comes over-- okay, this one hit here, the next one hit here, hey, you're gone. I mean, you do this automatically. Even if you're in line with it, you're gone before they throw the next one. Which, I mean, even if they see us took off, they couldn't-- Actually, our replacements weren't in as good a shape as we were. Weren't as tough as we were. And that made a lot of difference, too. Because, okay, you're sitting in a hole all night, like in that-- when I was in that observation post in front, you know. When

he-- when he said-- first, I was sittin' there all night, and zoom, within three feet, you're full speed. So, I mean, you have to be in good shape in order to do that. Where that's where-- And that's where the infantry lost a lot. And the difference between the infantry and us, when we had to go to the next mountain or when we had to go someplace, the officer wasn't the only one, or the sergeant wasn't the only one that knew what we had to do. Everybody knew. Where in the infantry, a lot of times they just-- I mean, the regular infantry didn't know what was coming off.

DERKS: Did you have any trouble staying awake when you had to be awake all

night?

SIPPEL: No. I mean, like I said, whenever we had a break, a fifteen minute break or something, I would sleep. But, I mean, I could go to sleep. But at the same time, if a shell came over, I was awake, just like that. Or anything different go on, but--

DERKS: And if you were on guard, you were awake. You didn't get sleepy?

SIPPEL: Well, see like when I was on that outpost then, this guy stayed awake early, 'cause I wanted to be awake in the morning 'cause I knew more what was going on than he did. So-- so, I got a couple hours of sleep maybe, after I dug the foxhole, after we dug the foxhole out there. So, we get in, I got maybe an hour of sleep, which

was great for me. And then this guy slept.

DERKS: Was it cold in any of the fighting?

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. Some of it was cold. Snow. Not a lot. Mostly slush, what we had. We didn't-- It was cold. Well, the mountains, it depended on which side of the mountain you got. If you got on the sunny side of the mountain, that was nice. But if you got on the shady side, and you get a cloudy day, it was cold. Cold and damp. And on the shady side, you had to watch-- you had to watch a certain side, I don't remember now anymore, but a certain side, when you got-- and certain mountains had moss on them. And that was slippery.

DERKS: Were you dressed well?

SIPPEL: Yeah. What you had on your back. That was it. The only thing we did-- the first mountain, we didn't. But after that, we always had two pair of socks. You'd change socks every day. But you took 'em off and you put 'em between your undershirt and your shirt. Tomorrow, you put those on. But we found out so that you didn't kill your feet. Your feet-- We didn't carry any extra socks. Just one pair, but just that changing them every day made a difference.

DERKS: Your feet are pretty important in the mountains.

SIPPEL: They take a beating, like, it's unbelievable. And really,

the worst beating they take is going down. That's the worst beating you can get on your feet.

DERKS: Because it's that downward momentum? Because you're traveling faster probably.

SIPPEL: Well, I think you're puttin' more weight on them. 'Cause you're holding back all the time.

DERKS: And you were saying something about the pants that you had? They were mountain pants?

SIPPEL: Yeah. They were quite waterproof. And they were a real fine knit, and we had a jacket that way, too. A parka. We had a long parka. That was white in the inside and khaki color at night. I mean, that--

DERKS: Olive drab?

SIPPEL: Yeah. At night.

DERKS: So, would you actually wear white out when you were in the snow?

SIPPEL: Yeah. That was what we had. White was for in the snow.

DERKS: So, tell me about coming home, seeing your family again.

SIPPEL: [Laughs] It was something else. Yeah. I only got home once in between-- well, that, the time I spent, we had nine days to go across the States. That's the only time I was home, after I got in. After I enlisted, that was it. I went from Fort Sheridan-- well, we there for a couple days. But then they shipped us out. Other than that--

DERKS: So, when you came home,

had they known where you were all the time?

SIPPEL: No. No. Well, did you see some of the-- well, some of those e-mail? [Laughs] She's actually got a couple of them where it was just the front and the bottom. That was it. The rest was cut out. No, they-- well, when we got back from the Aleutian Islands, then we told them. They had no idea where we were. And even when we wrote letters from Montana, some of those were censored.

DERKS: So, did they think you'd changed much when you got home?

SIPPEL: Well, the only thing, the muscles were tough. The legs-- I mean,

the muscles on your legs were just solid, almost like bones. They were tough. Like I say, I thank them for giving me that much training, because it was so much more than just basic training.

DERKS: Aside from the physical shape you were in, do you think you were much different when you came back? Here's a farm boy from Wisconsin, you've been all over Europe, you've been to the Aleutians.

SIPPEL: No, I don't know if I was that much different. I just thanked God it was over with. [Laughs] I never begrudged any of it. The only thing that was any disapprovement at all,

and that was when they threw us with the 82nd Airborne. That probably took me down more than anything, because, I mean, they were-- they were rude. But I can see their point, too. I mean, here they throw a bunch-- instead of replacements, they throw a bunch of sergeants and corporals and everything else in there, you know. And-- and it didn't, I think, I don't know if it was more friction, but I think the biggest friction was we only made two jumps to qualify. They had to make five. That's kind of what I got out of it, too. But it was-- but it was all the sergeants,

and all the corporals and everything.

DERKS: We talked to all those guys in the bombers and they didn't make any jumps at all. The only time they jumped was when they bailed out of a plane.

SIPPEL: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

DERKS: Was your grandfather still alive when you came home from the war?

SIPPEL: No. He passed away when I was gone.

DERKS: Because I was wondering if you had ever, I mean, obviously you had German roots and you spoke German. I think it would be different for you talking to your family about what you saw over there and what you experienced.

SIPPEL: Well, actually, I didn't say too much about it. At that time I pretty much blocked out everything. The only-- like I said, the thing that scared me as much as anything, I was hoping

my buddies wouldn't tap me on the shoulder. That probably scared me as much as anything.

DERKS: How long did it take you to get over that?

SIPPEL: Oh, I don't know. I would say close to six months before anybody could put their hand on my shoulder, before I was comfortable with it.

DERKS: It took you that long to relax.

SIPPEL: I mean, to really-- you know, so that-- because over there, you had to do everything spontaneous, not, you know, you didn't question nothing, it was spontaneous, you had to do it. That was it. So, I mean-- that's what keeps you going.

DERKS: Did your injury bother you any?

SIPPEL: Oh, not really.

Part of my lung, oh, when I was in-- when I worked at West Bend Aluminum, it was dusty. And that bothered me. So, I went to the Veterans Hospital and they gave me-- they gave me a slip so they put me in the press room so it wasn't dusty. But other than that, I mean, it was just-- you have to-- It's really, you have-- it's like when I got hurt, when I got back. You just have to get your wind back. That's it. You don't baby yourself, then it'll come back.

DERKS: Did you ever have nightmares or anything?

SIPPEL: No, I never really was bothered with that. I don't know why. Even during the war, I know during the war there was guys who would wake up at night. But now that, I don't know why,

it never really bothered me.

DERKS: But you were ready to put it behind you.

SIPPEL: Oh, definitely.

DERKS: We've heard people say, thirty, even forty years, they wouldn't talk about it at all.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. No, I didn't either. I never really talked about it that much. Not until the last couple years.

DERKS: I surely appreciate you talking about to us.

SIPPEL: Well, you brought back a lot of memories. Things that I never thought of in between. I'm sure there's things that I forgot, too.

DERKS: We've also have heard people say they remember the funny things and the good things.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. That we did too. Because, actually, like when we were back, I mean, we celebrated. [Laughs]

DERKS: How'd you celebrate?

SIPPEL: [Laughs]

DERKS: You didn't drink any alcohol or anything, did you?

SIPPEL: Oh, no. [Laughs] I'll tell you, the Italians and the French made good wine. But you had to be careful which-- because they threw bad wine at us, too. You had to watch it. You had to be careful where you bought it. Who you bought it from. I mean, you had to-- because they made some out of kerosene and everything imaginable.

DERKS: When you'd come back down from the mountains or when you were back for some rest, it was nice to have a bottle of wine then?

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. We'd go out of town.

DERKS: Tell me about that, going to town. Would there be cafes or something that you could--

SIPPEL: Yeah,

they had cafes and places to eat, places to drink. They had taverns. France, they had different kinds of taverns, but then-- [laughs] which actually, as far as I was concerned, I thought it was great. Because you could go in there, they didn't bother you. You could have a drink there if you wanted to. They were there, and there it was legal. I know one-- I don't remember what town it was-- oh, that was where we were below that mountain, where we came up and down. Well, we'd come down one day, take the pack up the next day, and that night we went to town. And I got acquainted with a woman that ran the place, and she said, "What's different?" I made the mistake of saying,

"When did you start this?" She just laughed. She says, "World War II, World War I." [Laughs] I mean, the way they ran it-- I mean, like when these girls came to work, they had like a punch card. And that punch card had to be-- a doctor had to inspect that every so many days, and that had to be signed and punched by the doctor. And this woman that ran it had to make sure that when this-- when she came to work, that this card was punched. And the government got a percentage out of every-- [laughs]

DERKS: That's a reason to make it legal.

SIPPEL: Well, you know.

DERKS: For health and to get a percentage.

SIPPEL: Yeah. Well, I was born-- I went and worked in Plymouth. I'm sure

you don't know nothing about that, but it was-- that was where the last house of prostitution in Wisconsin was that we know of.

DERKS: Oh, really? In Plymouth?

SIPPEL: Yeah. And at one time they had I think three. It was the gathering place for a lot of people.

DERKS: When you were in Europe at the cafes and the bars, were the soldiers very rowdy or pretty well behaved?

SIPPEL: Now, all the while-- When I was in it, they were just as behaved as you could possibly be. But I think part of it was because the other soldiers made sure, 'cause you ain't gonna spoil my time when I'm in this tavern or

having a drink or eating. They didn't want nobody to disturb that because you appreciated it so much. And you didn't want nobody to mess it up. No, I mean, all the places where I was, we never had any problem with rowdiness or anything. And a lot of times, we carried .45s even going to town. But, I mean, that's where it stayed. That was it. There was no questions, no nothing. You just didn't use it.

DERKS: I think if a Special Forces guy came up to me and told me I was ruining his good time, I would behave. [Laughs]

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah, because up there--

that's one thing up there: you didn't fib, you didn't maneuver anybody, you didn't pull no-- because you didn't do that. I mean, you don't joke. Oh, sure, when we were in town, yeah. But any other time, it was very business-like.

DERKS: It was life or death.

SIPPEL: Oh, yeah. Very much so. It was an altogether different life. And really, I don't know why, but I didn't like the idea of shooting anybody, but it was either him or me. I never cherished the idea of shooting anybody.

And that was one thing our whole outfit, even in the 82nd, we never bragged about how many we shot or how many we killed. The only thing we bragged about is how much ground we covered. How much we held. That was it. And nobody-- when we got back-- [tape recording cuts]