Oral history interview with Herbert H. Hanneman, WPT Wisconsin World War II Stories

Please Note: Due to the set-up of this video recording, the voice of the interviewer is hard to hear. The transcript reflects the best attempt to represent what is said.

Transcribed Interview:

DERKS: But, yeah, all the way back to when you were first aware that there might be a war and that you might be involved in it.

HANNEMAN:Okay, are you ready?

DERKS: Yep.

HANNEMAN:January, January of '41. I think shortly before that I knew that I was going to be drafted, and so in January 6th, I think it was, there were three of us from the Madison area that decided we'd go to Florida and have a good time in the wintertime before we had to be drafted. So we headed for Florida. I think it was the first part of January. I think we got down there in time to see their their parade, Jan---New Year's Day parade or whatever it was. Anyhow, so we got 00:01:00down there and after a little while two of us didn't want to go to work but we were running out of money, so we joined what was then the Florida National Guard that was being activated. And that was a coast artillery organization. And the other one of the three of us went to work, and later on he was drafted anyhow, but we didn't see him again. But I was in that outfit for 6 months I guess it was, and we didn't stay in Florida very long. They sent us to Fort Crockett, Texas, which of course is coast artillery area. And that's where we stayed, and for 6 months we were, I think there were about 10 or 12 of us out of that whole group that were not what you'd call southern "cracker" boys, you know, we were from the north. I don't know if we ever fit in or not. I really can't remember all my time there. Then I remember that after six months we got our first 00:02:00furlough, and my friend and I came back to Madison. And on the way back from Madison, back to our camp, we decided we didn't want to stay in that outfit, so when we got back we asked permission to join the regular Army, and they immediately gave us permission. So we went over to their headquarters and talked to them, and they said, "Oh, we'd love to have you. We'll give you a choice, where would you like to go? Would you like to go to Alaska, Hawaii or the Philippines?" And we looked at each other and we said, "Gee, we've never been to the Philippines, let's go over there." Which was a real smart move on our part. [laughs] And ah, to make a long story short, then we signed up to go to the Philippines. And they put us on the President Coolidge at that time, which had been just recently been converted to a troop ship, but it hadn't yet had all the 00:03:00trimmings of a troop ship. So we stayed in a state room and went over to the Philippines in a, on a, just like we were on a cruise. In fact they had the kitchens and the chefs and all of that stuff, so it was pretty darn fancy. So I can't just remember when we got over there to the Philippines, but when we got over there, ah, he and I got separated somewhat. I can't just remember what he went into, but they discovered that I knew typing and shorthand so I was drafted for office work there in MacArthur's Headquarters. So that was right in Manila. So it was right, it was right near the little river that came into Manila, I can't remember the name of it. P-a-s-a-y or Pasey or something like that. But we 00:04:00only worked half days. That was before the war started as you can tell, that must have been August, something like that. August or September--of'41. And worked half days, and our barracks were pretty nice, but they were-- We hired Filipino boys to do all of our KP's, which is something unusua, or was unusual for us anyhow, of course. I can't remember what we paid them. I think it was something like two or three pesos a month, which was probably fifty cents a month to make our beds and sweep the floors, and that's about all they did for us. And ah, I don't know, this was September, October, November.

DERKS: What was your mission there? You weren't in the war, but you were close to Japan, and there was a lot of fighting going on.

HANNEMAN:Well, the war had not yet started. That, that didn't start until 00:05:00December 8th, but of course the Army had been there for a long time. In fact, the Filipinos being a, what do they call that, a part of the United States. It wasn't a state, it was a whatever they call it. And so they had the Army over there long before we got there. But of course when the draft started and there was a hint of war, they were enlarging, and that's how it got to be that we were over there.

DERKS: Did you feel any threat from Japan?

HANNEMAN:None whatsoever. We just had a ball there. Clark Field was the Air Force airport, for the Army Air Force, nearest the Philippines. And they were always flying around, and then they had a coast artillery there for Manila. And they had an infantry there. And well, December 8th, that's when all hell broke 00:06:00loose as they say. Pearl Harbor was bombed. But to show you how alert we were, we came down for breakfast the following morning and we saw newspaper hawking, newspaper being hawked, says, Pearl Harbor Bombed. We hadn't even known about it. But halfway through breakfast, why, they announced it. Said get back to your barracks, etc. etc. That's when the war started for us. Issued us sidearms, and that was the end of our having the Filippinos wait on us. We had to do our own after that. And ah, now, that was December 8th. And by the time, I think it was Christmas, well I know it was Christmas Eve, December 25th, they took a whole load of us over to Corregidor. Because they felt that Manila was going to be on 00:07:00the list, first to be bombed and so forth. We went over to Corregidor, and that's where we set up shop over there with our bookwork and so forth. And lo and behold that didn't last very long at all, until we were being bombed there. And I remember one of the strangest or whatever you want to call it, they bombed the building in which we were working, and a bomb came all the way through three floors past where we were working but did not detonate. The holes were in the floor and the ceilings and everything else, but the bomb never detonated. But shortly thereafter they strafed the whole place, and that's when everybody broke out of there. I remember I ran out and I crawled into a culvert that, with my 00:08:00feet first and my head sticking out and I couldn't quite get my shoulders in, but I covered my face and I can still remember that to this day, that the strafing went oh, about six or eight feet from me. The shells, or the bullets, were going there and the gravel was coming up and hitting my face. But I never, they didn't hit the culvert. I didn't get hurt, except my pride was hurt, of course. And about two or three days after that, they put us on a, most of us, on a barge, towed us towards Bataan. And, hoped that we would float into Bataan before, the port there, before daylight came, but it didn't happen. But fortunately, the Japs didn't come over and bomb us while we were big targets on this barge. And so that's where I joined the Infantry again. But it was just a 00:09:00few days later, there were about oh, four or five or six of us maybe that went to a little stream near where our camp was set up, to take a bath because the bath facilities in our camp was almost nonexistent. And lo and behold we were having a bath, we had a--we were in the nude, our clothes were lying there. And all of a sudden, we looked up, we were surrounded by Japanese infantry. Now obviously we didn't speak Japanese, they didn't speak English, but soldiers with bayonets speak pretty loud you know. And so they took my class rings and my, our class rings and my wristwatch. Allowed us to dress and shoved us, you know, got us together, and obviously we did what they told us, or the bayonets told us to 00:10:00do, we did. And what happened was that we'd meet other groups little by little, and pretty soon we were a larger group and looking back now, I would guess you would say that was the beginning of the Death March. And I can't remember how long it was, it must have been maybe even that first night, there was a whole slew of us and I don't know how many, but the first night they stopped, there was no talk about feeding us. They didn't feed us or anything, they just marched us. The only food we got on the week to ten days, and I don't remember exactly how many days it took to get to ah, Cabanatuan Prison Camp, were natives occasionally would give us a little food. And I guess the Japanese did feed us rice occasionally, rice packed in little balls or boxes or what have you. And 00:11:00they, I don't think they ever gave us water, but all the water we ever got again were from natives who would give us water, or we drank out of caraboo waller, wallows, or whatever you get you know. And we all got very ill, sick. And this was, we just kept marching. And finally we got to this Cabanatuan which was our prison camp. And it wasn't a great deal better, but at least they had some barracks and bamboo beds that we could sleep on, although we all very very ill. Incidentally, on this seven, eight, nine-day march, it looked pretty rugged because the Japanese were not very friendly. And they must have gotten some 00:12:00horses someplace because they had a cavalry, and the Japanese on horse back, they had a great deal of fun riding through the group of Americans who were supposedly marching along, with their swords flashing. And I saw quite a few Americans that were more or less decapitated. And I never saw anybody get picked up or buried or helped or taken care of unless it was by "my buddy Joe" or "my buddy Bob" or whoever it was. If they could help us fine, if not, they let us go on. It was every man for himself. So eventually, as I said, we got to Cabanatuan. And we were there for a whole year and, a year and a half. And how 00:13:00in the world any of us ever got through that I'll never know. They did allow us to start gardening. They let us have a garden, although we, none of us were very interested in gardening. But they did begin to feed us a little bit better. Mostly rice and mostly rice and fish heads, and occasionally greens. We did raise a few greens, you know like--spinach, what have you. And we had our own cooks, but they never got much of any food except this rice to feed us with. And as I said, we were there a year and a half, and we had burial details almost every day because during the night, [coughs] excuse me--you'd hear people screaming, For Christ's sake, get me out of here, [coughs] you know, stuff, 00:14:00stuff like this. In the morning, they'd probably be dead and then they'd have a burial detail. They didn't always have them every day, sometimes they'd let those poor bodies lie there. But when they had the burial detail, why they'd grab those of us who were able to carry them out, off the camp grounds. We'd dig a hole, we'd throw them in, and cover them. And if we didn't have enough dirt to cover them, it was a terrible thing to say, but we'd use a shovel and we'd break an arm or break a leg, and it's how they were taken care of. Now eventually, then after about a year or so of this, they took those of us who were still able to go--

DERKS: I don't want to dwell on this, but was it from sickness or starvation that people were dying?

HANNEMAN:Oh yes, absolutely. Ah, we all had dysentery, we probably all of us had malaria and beriberi, I don't know if you know what that is, but that's a swelling of your legs and so forth, and it was all due to malnutrition of course. Now there were, to my knowledge we never had any medicine there. There may have been doctors there and they probably tried to help people, but they didn't have any medicine or anything. So how many of us, how many of them died, out of those that were there, I do not know. I've read since then that obviously more than half of us died there. And, as I said a moment ago, we, eventually 00:16:00they put those of us who were able on a truck and took us into Manila, and put us on a ship and sent us to Japan. Now, they put us down in the hold of these ships, they were probably freighters I suppose, to begin with. And it was not very pleasant. They'd lower food to us occasionally. You never knew when you were gonna get fed or if you were gonna get fed, and people were very very ill there too. But as we got close to Formosa, we didn't know it at the time, but when they got close to Formosa, apparently, they were afraid they were gonna get bombed by American planes, so they pulled into the port of Formosa, and lo and behold they let us out of the hold down there for a couple days so at least have 00:17:00some fresh air for a little while. I think there were a few fellas who were crazy enough to jump overboard, figuring they could get to Formosa and save themselves. Well obviously, that never happened because Formosa was not our friend either, you know. But anyhow, I think it was about at Formosa that they, we remembered that they had made some makeshift Red Cross flags and they put it on top of the ship, so I assume they were thinking to themselves that would keep the Americans from bombing it, and apparently it worked because we never got bombed. But anyhow, we finally arrived in Japan, and they took us to a prison camp that really was much much better than Cabanatuan, at least they had barracks and-- Beds weren't all that great, of course, they were hard beds, but 00:18:00they gave us blankets. And they did have halfway decent toilet facilities. In fact, the native Japanese would come to the outside edge of the toilet area and pull our defecation out, put it in buckets, and then they'd bucket over, like one bucket over a pole on each end, and they'd carry it on their shoulders, and apparently they'd use that for their gardens over there. We weren't just sure at first, but it wasn't too long after we were there that they began to take us daily to the loading docks, and we worked in a steel mill there. Ah, the work was varied. Sometimes you'd have an outdoor detail, cleaning up. Other times they'd have us unloading iron ore, or they'd have us unloading black sand or 00:19:00magnesium, as they call it. And once in a great while those of us who were able to do any kind of work at all and were doing this work, we'd get close to their kitchens on these ships and occasionally we'd swipe a little bit of food if we could. It was alright if we didn't get caught, but if we got caught, they didn't punish us there. They waited till we got home at night, and then they'd get us up in the middle of the night, and bare naked, they'd make us walk around the camp that we had. And then the wintertime, although it didn't get real icy, the water was cold and they had a big tank out there. I don't know what that tank was for. They'd make us jump in this tank and crawl out. We darn near froze to death, but some of us lived through it of course. And then the next day we'd go 00:20:00back to work. I think there about three or four days at the most during my two years there that they took a day off, and on those days they'd march us over to a stream, I don't know how far away it was, it wasn't very far, and they'd let us wash our clothes. Ah, there were some facilities to do some laundry of course in our camp, but wasn't all that great. The Americans who were not able to go the steel mill and do any work, they kept them as busy as they could doing yard work and helping their cooks or whatever. And there again, it was mostly fish and rice, more rice and fish heads. And that's the way two years went, and there 00:21:00was a lotta hollering there at night too that you know, people saying, Where are you Lord? And I really don't know what happened to the people who died there, because they did not have a burial detail that I'm aware of, of we as prisoners. Obviously somebody must have taken them away, because we didn't see them anymore. And--I guess I'm maybe hurrying this up a little bit, but near the very end we had rumors, through some of the guards we had there, some of them could speak English by the way, that ah, said one of the, our outer isla-, or outer place in Japan was in what they call Hirohala, Japan, which was about 60, 75, 80 00:22:00miles south of Osaka on the ocean. And they had another island, and we didn't know what island it was, but some of these guards told us that the Americans with one bomb had bombed another island, and afterwards of course we found out that this was Hiroshima where the atomic bomb, bomb was dropped. And they were a little more mean after those days than they were ordinarily, and they were always mean enough. But getting back to some of those guards who could speak English, we had one guard, and I don't know his name now, he, I think he told us, but he had been going to school at the University of Washington in either Seattle or Tacoma, wherever it was, and he came over to visit his parents before the war started and he didn't ma-, he didn't make it. So they took him, took him 00:23:00in their army and he was a guard to us, and when there was no other guards around or none of his superiors were around, he'd talk to us about what was going on or as much as he knew, and he was very very friendly. But if he had a superior around, he was the meanest SOB in the world, you know. He wanted to apparently make an impression, so--to his superiors that he was doing his duty. But, again making a long story short, one--the night we'll, those of us who got through that, will never forget, we got back to camp, and the next morning they got us out on the road again, as though they were gonna go to work. They brought out the interpreter, and the interpreter made an announcement that the steel 00:24:00mill was taking a vacation for a few days and we didn't have to go to work that day. And boy did that get us yacking to ourselves. We went back in, and we didn't know quite what to do. And we didn't do anything the first day or so. And I think it was about the second or the third day, we noticed there were not nearly as many guards around as there had been in the past. So we did a very very foolish thing, we decided to [coughs], excuse me, we decided to rush the guards and see what would happen. At least we could break down the storeroom and get more food, and lo and behold, they all ran away. They dropped [coughs], dropped their guns and ran away. We could have been killed and the war would have been over for all of us. But they ran away and so we did, we broke down the 00:25:00store room, and we got at least all the rice we wanted. And it was about that same day or the day after that ah, a couple of American planes flew over. They were small planes. I assume they were I don't know what you woud call them, like P-51's or smaller. And they dropped some packages, and what it was was packages of--it was pre-foods, magazines, they even had some magazines in there I don't remember what they were. And that's where we found out that was the bomb at Hiroshima and so forth. And they dropped them in a rice paddy right next to us, and when they-- We knew they were American planes when they first came over, so like dumb asses that we were, we went out to catch what they dropped, you know. We could have been killed there, but fortunately we didn't. And it wasn't a day 00:26:00or so after that that a huge cargo plane flew over, and by this time we knew enough to not run out there, but they had strapped fifty gallon drums of food together with a parachute and they dropped it. And when that came down we grabbed those. We didn't have many tools, but we were able to open all this. This was, finally got some decent food, and that didn't last more than a day or so, and lo and behold a Jeep drove up in front our barracks and some white people got out. I think they were Americans and representatives of the Swiss Red Cross, and I'll never forget there was one white nurse on board, and we all said 00:27:00to each other, more or less, she must be sick, she looks awfully white. [laughs] But they then made arrangements. It wasn't within a few days then they made arrangements to get us all on a on a--train and took us up to Osaka. So we got up to Osaka and there they were set up to--put us on a ship going to Manila. But prior to when we got off of that train, why the first thing they did was they de-loused us all and gave us clothes that we could wear that was decent. None of it fit of course, but who the hell cared? And then we got on a ship and went to Manila. And when we got to Manila they had a camp set up for POW's. And the-- I'll never forget that either, the mess hall was open 24 hours a day! 'Course, 00:28:00we had, our stomachs were shrunk so we couldn't eat very much at a time, but we all got sick again from eating too much. And I can't remember how long we stayed there before they put us on one of those, they call em Kaiser ships I guess, and sent us back to the United States. And we got to San Francisco, and that was very interesting too as we came into I remember that when our ship came into San Francisco, it was a regular flotilla of ships that came in, of returning veterans etc. But ours was the only ship that had POW's on it. And as we came under the Golden Gate Bridge, all of these other ships, they were hooting and 00:29:00hollering throwing their--[coughs]--caps up in the air, you know, and our ship, there wasn't a sound except just crying. We were just so happy to get back. And ah, obviously after we landed then we into what they call Letterman General Hospital, which was a military hospital. And--that's where we first were able to send messages to our loved ones. And I remember that I, I can't just remember how it was, I sent a message to my mother I know. And I can't remember at that time whether I sent message to anyone else or not, I, I just don't remember for 00:30:00sure. But we stayed at Letterman General Hospital, and that's where they gave us a little bit better fitting clothes. And they did a lot of, obviously in Manila they had done that, gave us a lot of examinations, the doctors, and they did again at Letterman General Hospital. Eventually we, those of us from the Midwest or around here, they put us on a hospital train and we came to Galesburg, Illinois, which had a veteran's or military hospital, and it was called Mayo Hospital. It's not like the Mayo in Rochester, Minnesota, but it was a Mayo General Hospital. And I re---never forget that either, we pulled in at night and they weren't, I think it was on a Saturday night too, next day being Sunday they weren't ready to take us at the hospital, so we were all on this train and so 00:31:00anxious to get back to the Midwest. We talked to the, I think the nurse in charge of our car, we talked her into letting us go downtown in Galesburg, Illinois, on a Saturday night. Lo and behold she allowed it, and she even called some taxis for us, and tax-, we didn't have any money, hadn't been issued money yet. But the taxi drivers wouldn't take any money. We went downtown and went into a bar and couldn't buy anything, but nobody would let us go thirsty, believe me. 'Course we were in no shape, you know, two beers and we were drunk. And that's exactly what happened. We got back to the, they finally brought us back to the railroad car, and about that time they were gonna take us in and the 00:32:00first the doctor said to us, "Hell, they're drunk. We can't examine them." So they put us back on the car again and waited, we slept it off and waited till the next day, and that's how we got to Galesburg, Illinois. And I can't remember how long we were there, but that's when they began to really get to our bookwork and give us clothes, and find out who our next of kin was, and give us pay, give us money. I can't remember how long we were there. And then finally, I was able to get back to Madison, Wisconsin. And that's where most of my relatives were, but in the interim my mother had gone out to Iowa to keep house for an uncle of mine who also happened to be her brother, so it would be my uncle and my mother, 00:33:00and so I went out to Iowa to see them. And lo and behold I found out that my girlfriend before we had gone in was still single, so I found her and lo and behold she was willing to go out with me. And to make a long story short, we've been married fifty-six years. She is my partner, my pride and joy, she's kept me alive this last fifty-six years. So--sometime after we got back then, and they called us back to Chicago to be totally discharged. And we got to Chicago and, I can't remember, I think it's right on the ocean there, I can't, or on the lake, 00:34:00I don't remember what they, there was a name for it, but I can't think of it at the moment.

DERKS: Navy Pier?

HANNEMAN:It was right near Navy Pier there, yeah. And one of the things they did for us when they gave us our discharge was, as POW's, they gave us a vacation to a city of our choice, and a couple of hotels of our choice, with all expenses paid for two [coughs], excuse me, two weeks. Except for liquor, they wouldn't pay for any liquor. So anyhow, by that time I had proposed to my dear wife and she had accepted, and so we got married and we had two weeks honeymoon in the--hotel in Chicago. I can't remember what the name of it was at that time, it's now the, was the Hilton at that time. Can't remember name of it then. But anyhow, we had our honeymoon there for two weeks and I'll never forget that 00:35:00either. Our room number was 12, 1215. And that's the total amount of my bill after two weeks, because most everybody, with my uniform on, could see that I'd been a POW. They wouldn't let me buy drinks. Occasionally we could buy drinks, and that's was the $12.15. And while we were there we did some touring around, I remember we went to a ballgame. I think that was at Comisky Park, I don't think it was Wrigley Field, I think it was Comisky Park. And we went to various other things. My wife had some friends there and we were able to see them, too. And eventually, that was over with, and we, by that time we had decided we were gonna live in Madison, so we headed back to Madison. I had a car by that time. 00:36:00Oh incidentally, going back a little ways, when I first got to Madison, cars were at a, there weren't many available. I bought one car and that lasted about a week, and I knew it wasn't gonna last so I traded it off to, for another car, and that one wasn't too good. And finally a relative of mine had a Pontiac car that was in pretty good shape that they didn't need anymore, and so I bought that car. And my wife and I had that car for quite a while. We called it Peggy Pontiac. So came back to Madison then, and we were married out in Iowa, at her folks. And we drove back to Madison, we didn't have a spot to, a place to stay that first night, but we stopped to see a ballgame on the way, 'cause we were both nuts about ballgames anyhow. So we stopped to watch a ballgame on our way back without having a place to stay, but we finally got a room on University 00:37:00Avenue, and--then began to look around, and we found a third floor apartment on Butler, no, third floor apartment on West Johnson Street, near the University. So I decided, and with the help of my sister and her family, I enrolled at the University and was gonna go to school. But I decided I didn't like school very much, so I worked part time at the Univeristy News Bureau and went to school with one class, journalism. And working at the News Bureau I was gonna be a journalist, and then I hoped I could run that journalism into being a sportswriter, because I love sports. It never did pan out, and I found out that I might starve to death if I didn't have more than that, so I went to work for the City of Madison. They had, not all of the veterans were yet back and so 00:38:00there were quite a few openings, and I went to work for the engineering department. And it was just a short time after that that I noticed they had a vacancy for a supervisor in the street department, so I took an exam for that and got that job. And to make a long story short, I worked myself up through the ranks, and when I retired at the age of 62 I had been the street superintendent for 30 years. And that's, in a nutshell-- By that time we'd also bought a home in West Moreland. A very nice little home in Madison area. And I, you know, we 00:39:00had a son and we had a daughter, and we bought this home out there, and I don't know what else to tell you. I've had a wonderful wonderful married life, but I'm still somewhat of a loner that I do not go to very many meetings. I did join, I joined the VFW for a little while because they had a softball team. So I played on their softball team, and then I did join the disabled American veterans, and I'm a life member of that. But I don't belong to the VFW anymore. And I don't quite know why except, well, like you can see that when I talk to you I break down occasionally talking about this, so I don't really care too much to talk about it. But I retired at 62, and now I'm 86 years old. And that's the story of 00:40:00my life.

DERKS: Do you still carry it with you?

HANNEMAN:You mean, yeah, did I, what relative to a POW?

DERKS: Did you carry that with you?

HANNEMAN:Oh yeah, when I first I used to have a lot of sleepless nights, and now the only time that it comes back to me is when the Veterans Council asked me to do a video for them and when the Sun Prairie Round Table, Veterans' Round Table, asked me to do a video for them. And like I'm talking to you, that brings it back and for a while or maybe by the time I get home tonight, I will have thought about it, but by tomorrow, I'm sure I'm gonna try desperately to forget it. [PAUSE] I'm in contact occasionally with the veterans' groups or, I get a 00:41:00ten percent disability pension for being a POW, for no other reason, and in fact they've sent me couple letters stating if I want to, I can reapply and maybe get more than ten percent. But I'm always a little bit leery that if you start reapplying, they might take away the ten percent I have. So nuts to 'em. So again, that doesn't amount to that much anyhow.

DERKS: How about physically? How long did it take you to recover physically?

HANNEMAN:Well, it's an amazing thing. Physically it didn't take all that long at all. I gained an awful lot of weight in a hurry, most of it was very very flabby. I think, the first time that I got weighed in Osaka I weighed ninety 00:42:00pounds, and I swear that by the time I got to--San Francisco I must have weighed almost two-hundred. And I think by the time I was liberated in Chicago, I probably weighed two-hundred pounds. But a lot of that was kind of flabby, so then I began to lose it, began to get down to 180, where I belonged. But by and large, my health has been pretty darn good. I sometimes, I've had the usual aches and pains of old people, I've had myalgia and polymyalgia. I've had, do have a bit of rheumatism, arthritis, but I can't truthfully say that's because I was a prisoner of war or because it's old age. We, my family, we eat sensibly 00:43:00and I, even now I try to exercise. I try to walk a mile or so a day. At age 86 not everybody can do that, but I think if I can do that, keep on doing it, why I may live a little while yet. So I guess that's about it.

DERKS: And while you were a prisoner, were you among the healthier ones? Did you seem to be--

HANNEMAN:I seemed to be able to do a lot of things that most of them could not do. I know that I was on the burial detail quite a number of times. And I think I only stayed home from work in Japan at the steel mill for never more than a day at a time. So I must have been very very fortunate. I think Divine Providence looked out for me, and I felt I was somewhat religious when I went 00:44:00in, and I certainly do believe in Divine Providence now, and I don't mean that as being Protestantism or Catholicism or whatever religion. I don't go waving the flag. To each his own I say. But I just know there's a higher authority than we are, because we live like animals. And we are above the animal stage. So there's got to be something better than just being animals, and that has to be a Divine Providence. I said a lot of prayers, and I promised to do a lot of things while I was in there, most of which I've forgotten. I didn't keep my word, I'm sorry to say, some of the wonderful things I was gonna do if I ever got out of there. But ah, I think I'm an honest God-fearing citizen, and I guess that's all 00:45:00one could ask.

DERKS: Tell me about the work you did. Was it mainly carrying stuff, hauling stuff?

HANNEMAN:In, in the steel mill we had various tasks. You either went out around the grounds and did, oh, raking and picking up and things like this, but the bulk of it was unloading ships. I think I said once before we unloaded iron ore and black sand or magnesium. I might tell you of a story while we were unloading black sand. It would be in the hold of a ship and there, the opening up above was just big enough for the crane to come down and open up, scoop it up and take it out. And this black sand we had to keep loosening it because it would cake, and one time I was loosening one of these caked pieces of black sand and the 00:46:00crane was on its way down, it wasn't in the hold yet, but it came loose in a huge hunk and it caught me. And I was buried up to my armpits and I couldn't get out. So I hollered like mad, and the foreman of the Japanese, foreman down there, he hollered at the operator. And they stopped the crane before it got down there, otherwise I could have been chopped up and that would have been the end, too. So I'm very very grateful, was very very grateful to them for that. Incidentally, I'm not even after this many years out of prison camp and all the years in prison camp, I had no hard feelings towards those people, 'cause I felt the guards we had and the people that treated us the worst were peons just like we were. I didn't start the war, they didn't start the war, somebody else did 00:47:00that, so I'll leave that up to posterity to punish the ones who were bad, those who were-- In fact, since I retired one of my favorite golfing partners up until the time I had to quit golfing was a Jap, was Japanese. We were, we were always kidding each other about, if he'd miss a putt, I'd say, "You damn Japs, you can't make nothing!" And then he's always, because I'm German descent, he'd always call me a Kraut and say the same thing about me! But ah, I've some excellent Japanese friends and acquaintances. In fact, I always said I would like to go back there but now, now I would not. I'm too old now. In fact, my wife and I have travelled extensively since I retired, but we gave up our passport because we don't want to go overseas anymore. We went to Europe, and we 00:48:00went to Africa. In fact I rode a camel over in Africa, and one of the highlights of our career is a picture of me attempting to dismount from an, from a, from a camel. [laughs] Which would have made Bob Hope laugh. [laughs]

DERKS: HANNEMAN, when you charged the guards and they ran, that was several days before you were actually liberated. Were you guys just--

HANNEMAN:We just in camp and--I think mostly we were talking food. Food and getting home. And I think we just laid around. We didn't do anything. I think obviously we were smart enough not to run out of there and try and get even with 00:49:00some of the guards in the steel mill that were mean to us, 'cause we didn't have the strength, or in other words, we could put up a good fight for about a hundred feet and then we'd run out of steam. So why go down there and raise Cain? We always said to each other, you SOB's, you're gonna stay here, we're going home. And that was our, and that was the good part of it. We were gonna go home eventually. And by that time, those of us who lived that long, lived the rest of the way, nobody to my knowledge, died after, you know, the last months of our being a prisoner or the months that we were on our way home, though it took a long time to get home. No one died there. We had, we were obviously told, 00:50:00as I was, by quite a few people in the medical field that we probably would not have a long life, but I'd like to tell them now that they're wrong. Because I'm 86 now.

DERKS: But they're all gone.

HANNEMAN:And they're all gone, so I can't tell them. [laughs]

DERKS: So the Japanese military just disappeared.

HANNEMAN:That's right, yeah. While we were in Cabanatuan, of course that was while we were over there, I understand, I don't know this to be true or not, we understand that there were a few prisoners who tried to escape from Cabanatuan to live with the natives there, but they were never very successful because the natives were all being bombarded by Japanese soldiers, so, where you gonna go, 00:51:00you know? So I never tried to escape from anyone. I had lots of thoughts about lots of things, but fortunately I had sense enough not to do all the crazy things I thought of.

DERKS: Speaking of thoughts, what was it like when things that are normally celebratory, like holidays or birthdays, what was it like when those things came along when you were a prisoner?

HANNEMAN:I don't think we thought about 'em very much. Christmas, New Year's, Fourth of July, I don't think we ever thought about it. We didn't have calendars to begin with and I, there were a few fellas who tried to make calendars of their own and cross things off. We didn't have pens or pencils or anything else, newspapers. So I don't think we knew exactly. We led a, in that respect, we led a very sheltered existence, because we didn't know what was going on in the 00:52:00world. In fact, one of the biggest shocks we had when we got out was to discover that there were women in the Service. 'Cause there were none when we went in, you know. WACS and WAVES were unbeknown to us, we didn't realize that. And--oh, I can't, remember exactly. I made a little book after I got out and before I, before I was liberated, and I can't remember any of the things. One of, one of the things I had in here, I had a, I had a Lord's prayer. I don't know if I can find it or not now, [pages through book] But it was ah, a Lord's, I can't find it now. It was a Lord's prayer that was addressed to the President of the United States, and ah, oh here it is. "Our Commander in Chief, who art in Washington, 00:53:00victory be thy name. Thy will be done, thy Navy come, in Japan as it is in America. Give us this day our daily rice, and forgive us our curses as we forgive those who curse against us. Lead us out of Japan and deliver us unto America, for thine is democracy, the production and the war. All this we ask in the name of Secretary of War Knox. Amen." Quite a prayer, don't you think? [laughs]

DERKS: And when did you write that?

HANNEMAN:We, we had that we made that up while we were in prison camp. But I remembered enough of it to write it down after we were liberated. Incidentally, I have a whole slew of names in here of people who I knew in there. But, those 00:54:00who were my closest friends are all deceased. So I do not communicate with any of them. I have one friend who ah, went to Florida with us. The gentleman that I said didn't join up because he was smart enough to get a job, he wound up as a navigator for the ah, group of airplanes that flew over the hump. What did they call them? The Flying Tigers? The Flying Tigers, he was a navigator for them, and after Edna and I were married, we did see them. They came to see us once from California, er, California? And we went out to see them once in California. But now he's deceased, too. So, but, some other friends-- We really, and I think this is true of all of us in prison camp after you were there a while, you really didn't have any close friends because you were looking out for yourself 00:55:00so much. If the guy next to you, if you thought he was gonna die during the night, you might stay awake and when he did, you'd get his blanket. Now that's being animalistic, and dear Lord forgive me for that, but we were all like that. We were all looking out for our best interests, as best we could. [pause, sighs] Thank goodness it's over with. I never will be a prisoner of war again, I can assure you. I don't know what I'd do, but I never would be again.

DERKS: In addition to women in the military, the world had changed a lot.

HANNEMAN:Oh, it definitely had, I'll say it had. Ah, airplanes changed of course a great deal. And I remember the little P-51's that started out, they're like these little planes that come up to the ah, airshow at, where is it, Oshkosh? 00:56:00The old-time planes that come up. Of course, since that time, of course, they were even more improved. Now they're, what do they do, just quit having one of those go to Europe and back right now. Just quit the other day. What was--

DERKS: The Concord.

HANNEMAN:The Concord, yeah. Those of course, I've never ridden on a Concord, but flying over to Europe and Africa, we flew on some pretty good size planes, pretty nice planes.

DERKS: So much technology happened in those years, especially those last two years of the war.

HANNEMAN:Oh Jeez, I'll say.

DERKS: You must have been seeing all kinds of things you couldn't believe.

HANNEMAN:We certainly did. That's another one I, if you don't mind me going back again, I'll go back to I have met them since then. A few of them but not very many.

DERKS: So you were gonna tell us about--what was he gonna tell us--

HANNEMAN:Oh I was gonna tell you about when we first went from, were liberated in Osaka and then went over to Manila and stayed there a while. While we were in Manila, there were a bunch of us that didn't SWIPE a Jeep, we just took one that had the keys in it that was right next to us. And we went downtown in Manila. We went back to a couple of the bars that we used to frequent before the war began. Nobody knew us but we made ourselves known to them. But unlike what happened in Galesburg, Illinois, we didn't drink so much. But we knew we had to get that Jeep back or we'd be in a lot of trouble. So we just went down there, looked around and came back. We did not go to our old barracks--we were scared that 00:58:00that might not be there so we didn't go back there. So--.

DERKS: You mentioned that people, even when you were back in Galesburg, recognized that you were POWs. Was that something on your uniform or did you just look gaunt and thin or--.?

HANNEMAN:Well, I think--we weren't all that thin anymore, and we probably were, had ill-fitting uniforms, but I suspect we were happy to tell 'em. 'Cause I don't think they expected us to come down to a bar in Galesburg in the middle of the night on Saturday night without some reason. I suppose, I can't even remember, maybe the nurse in charge went along with us for all I know. 'Cause she was very, I don't know her name or rank or anything else, but she must have been awfully nice to let us do that in the first place.

HANNEMAN:But ah--it was the same thing when we were on our honeymoon in Chicago. 00:59:00People had no compunction about coming up and shaking your hand, because you know I got a string of ribbons, I won't say a mile long but being a POW you had those ribbons. My years of service and the fact was that I was a Tech Sergeant, so I had quite a few stripes up there. So that was it, but it's over with.

DERKS: What did they give you to honor being a POW? Was there a POW medal or--.?

HANNEMAN:Yes, I think there is. I think I have a POW medal and there's a doo-hickey that goes on your sleeve and for the life of me, I can't remember what it looks like. I still have my coat at home. I can't get in it, but I have it. [laughs]

DERKS: Well, I think we've put you through enough. Thanks, thank you so much.

HANNEMAN:Well, you're quite welcome. I just pray that these young people over in Iraq or anyplace there's a war, I hope they all get home safely. War has not changed since Sherman in the Civil War who said, War is Hell. There's no other way to say it, it's terrible. I wish that people could settle their differences without war. But I don't imagine it will ever happen; biblical days they had wars, so I'm sure they'll have them in the future.

[End of Interview]