Oral History Interview with Lawrence Pankratz

ZEITLIN: I'd like you to give your name, your date of birth and your place of residence.

PANKRATZ: I was born August 18th, 1919, in Marshfield. At the present time I live at 311 West Jefferson Street, Marshfield.

ZEITLIN: Can you give me your name too?

PANKRATZ: Lawrence Pankratz.

ZEITLIN: Lawrence, what was your rank during World War II?

PANKRATZ: PFC.

ZEITLIN: Which unit were you attached to?

PANKRATZ: Company C, 128th Infantry, 32nd Division.

ZEITLIN: Was that the 1st Battalion, the 128th?

PANKRATZ: Yeah. That's the 1st Battalion.

ZEITLIN: Thinking back to your early life did you, I assume your background, what did your family do for a living?

PANKRATZ: My parents were farmers. I was, I went to school in Hewitt, Wisconsin, through the eighth grade and then I worked on the farm 00:01:00until I went to service.

ZEITLIN: What year did you enter the service?

PANKRATZ: I joined the National Guards in November of '39. We were inducted into active service in October of 1940.

ZEITLIN: Why did you join the National Guard?

PANKRATZ: Well, I don't know. I really don't know. I just thought it was for the excitement of it, I guess.

ZEITLIN: Did you feel, in 1939, that the war was imminent.

PANKRATZ: Yes. There was a war that--the Russians went into Poland and the Germans went into Russia.

ZEITLIN: And did you feel that those events would eventually affect you? 00:02:00PANKRATZ: No I never had no idea that the--

ZEITLIN: As the time went by and things looked more and more difficult in Europe, did you ever think that the United States was going to become involved in that?

PANKRATZ: No. We were always neutral until, well until the Japs bombed. And we figured that sooner or later we would uh-- See in 1940 we went for a years training. We were in Louisiana over a year. I was supposed to get out. I was down there a year. My discharge was on the clerk's desk on December 7th, 1941 when the Japs bombed 00:03:00Pearl Harbor but then orders come down that we were in for the duration of the war.

ZEITLIN: So, the idea was that you would put in your time in the National Guard and at the end of the year or so you would be able to be discharged and your military service would be done.

PANKRATZ: Discharged and end our military service.

ZEITLIN: I see. So Pearl Harbor actually sort of changed your plans then.

PANKRATZ: All that put the beginning of the United States going into the war.

ZEITLIN: After the bombing of Pearl Harbor you and I assume also other people that you knew, felt that now we were really in it. How did you feel about that?

PANKRATZ: Well, It really didn't affect us at first. In fact it was a Sunday when Pearl Harbor was bombed and 00:04:00there was on the company suite there was a dice game and what have you. It never affected the dice game or anything. He says, "Someone drops bombs on Pearl Harbor." We made nothing of it until the next day when we got more of the story and war was declared the next day. We were immediately alerted in Louisiana. All furloughs were canceled. We was all packed, ready to go somewhere. We didn't know where. Then about three days later it was called off and we went on as before.

ZEITLIN: In Louisiana, what kind of training did you guys have? Describe what you did.

PANKRATZ: We did a lot of hiking 00:05:00and locale aesthetics and guard duty. We didn't have much equipment. Our Ack-Ack guns were a broom handle or something like that. There was no real equipment.

ZEITLIN: What kind of rifles did you have?

PANKRATZ: First we had Springfield but later we got the M1.

ZEITLIN: Did you think that the M1 was a much better weapon?

PANKRATZ: Oh it was. It was semi-automatic. It was a much better weapon.

ZEITLIN: Heavier though?

PANKRATZ: Oh, about maybe a pound heavier, but at that eight shells where the other one was only had five. The Springfield was bolt-action where this was semi-automatic. 00:06:00You just had to pull the trigger.

ZEITLIN: Sounds better. In the training that you had, did you get the feeling that the training was for warfare or operations in open areas or in the jungle? What kind of jungle training did you have?

PANKRATZ: We had no jungle training in the United States. None whatsoever. We had all open warfare, that's it.

ZEITLIN: You were assigned to a rifle company; a private in a rifle company, Company C?

PANKRATZ: Yes.

ZEITLIN: 1st Battalion?

PANKRATZ: 1st Battalion.

ZEITLIN: 128th Infantry. Then when the training was ended in Louisiana they moved you to Camp Devens, Massachusetts?

PANKRATZ: Yeah we went to Camp Devens. We went up there by train and truck. 00:07:00We stayed there about six weeks. That was in February of 1942. We were there Easter. Right after Easter they loaded us up. I think we were headed for Europe but then they changed our orders and we crossed the country by train. It took us, I think it was four days, to go from Fort Devens, Massachusetts to Fort Ord, California.

ZEITLIN: What was that like?

PANKRATZ: Well, there we stayed in barracks just like the Army.

ZEITLIN: The weather was--

PANKRATZ: The weather was warm, yeah. But we were only there a week. Then we boarded the ship 00:08:00 to--

ZEITLIN: How many ships did it take to move the whole division?

PANKRATZ: There were ten ships in the convoy. I think three of four of them were transports. There was a destroyer and a cruiser, or two cruisers as escort ships.

ZEITLIN: How long did it take you to make the passage to Australia?

PANKRATZ: Twenty-one days on the water.

ZEITLIN: Did you stop in Hawaii or?

PANKRATZ: No. No we bypassed Hawaii. We crossed the equator and the International Date Line. We lost a day there.

ZEITLIN: When you got to Australia were the people happy to see you there?

PANKRATZ: Oh yes. They treated us real well there. When we got to Australia 00:09:00I happened to get on a dock detail, unloading the ships. I was there about five days. I saw quite a few people go from the city of Adelaide and they treated us very well.

ZEITLIN: Did you think highly of them? What was it--

PANKRATZ: Oh yes we did. Well the way they treated us we treated them. One thing we didn't like was that they drove on the left side of the road and we were used to driving on the right side. There were a few accidents on account of that.

ZEITLIN: I'm sure of that. When you left Adelaide, you went up to Brisbane?

PANKRATZ: Brisbane, that was, I'm trying to think of how far, anyways it was about halfway across the Australian continent. 00:10:00There we went by train. We had to change trains when we left one territory we changed to another train. The train on the [inaudible] the whole train had to unload and load on another train.

ZEITLIN: Because the track was--

PANKRATZ: Different guages in the railroad tracks.

ZEITLIN: Different gauges.

PANKRATZ: Yeah. I think it took us about a week to get there.

ZEITLIN: Was there any training in the Brisbane area? What did you do when you got there?

PANKRATZ: Well, we had a lot to [inaudible] a lot of of hiking and traveled up a few mountains and bivouaced. Probably a three-day bivouac and--we were there, 00:11:00what was it, about June I think until September.

ZEITLIN: Was there any preparation for the move to New Guinea?

PANKRATZ: No, we were alerted on, I think it was Sunday evening. They took us by truck up, I don't know what city it was, but it was about a two-hour ride to the airport and there we got, well, all new clothes camouflage clothes.

ZEITLIN: What kind of clothes? Tell me about the--

PANKRATZ: Camouflage clothes, fatigue clothes. That morning we loaded on planes and went to Port Moresby, New Guinea. It was, I think, about a four-hour 00:12:00 trip.

ZEITLIN: And what was Port Moresby like?

PANKRATZ: Well, we saw nothing of Port Moresby. It was just an airport. They took us out to a bivouac area by truck. On that truck, the truck I was on, when we went to the bivouac area it took us about two hours and we got side- swiped. Two men got killed on that truck and three more were injured. I was supposed to be sitting on that seat that this on fellow was on the side where it was side-swiped.

ZEITLIN: Got hit by another truck?

PANKRATZ: By another truck, side-swiped. I wasn't there. My corporal took my seat away from me and I sat in the middle 00:13:00I fell out of the truck but I wasn't hurt.

ZEITLIN: Then you took up position in the bivouac area, where you were bivouaced?

PANKRATZ: Yeah, yeah. We was bombed a couple of times. Well, we were about two miles from the airport and the airport was bombed several times. It was the first time that we had any--

ZEITLIN: Japanese--

PANKRATZ: Japanese action that we saw.

ZEITLIN: Where did you go from the Port Moresby area? What was the rest?

PANKRATZ: Port Moresby, we went up the Goldie River. We must of went up there about forty or fifty miles. There were supposed to be some Japs up there at the time but we didn't encounter any. Then we came back to Port Moresby. We were up there, I don't know, maybe two or three weeks.

ZEITLIN: Then off to Dobodura? Is that the next step? Flew you over to--

PANKRATZ: Right. Somewhere, they 00:14:00flew us over there by plane. We flew over the Owen Stanley Mountains. There we uh, when we flew across, I think we went between the mountains the way I look at it because we'd look out of one side; the portholes on one side looked like the plane just missed that mountain and then we looked out the other side. He tipped it the other way and we'd miss the mountain on the other side.

ZEITLIN: Some pretty big mountains?

PANKRATZ: Yeah. I was on the plane about forty-five minutes for the ride across the mountain. When we landed, we landed in just a-- well it was an open field with elephant grass. We called it elephant grass.

ZEITLIN: How tall--

PANKRATZ: The grass was about seven feet high, I'd say. 00:15:00We landed in that and bounced a couple of times and we got stopped; glad to get out of the plane. Landed.

ZEITLIN: And then where?

PANKRATZ: Well, we went to a village there. The villages were just, uh, well, a coconut grove, maybe a hut in the coconut grove. We went, harbored away by ship. We walked for, uh one time we hiked for three days on one hike. On that hike I was in a landslide there. There were two of them going up a hill, a pretty steep hill. Somebody up at the top of the hill hollered, "Look out below." There I'd seen a stone coming down, bunch of trees around and I 00:16:00quick run behind a big tree about three feet in diameter. I said, "Well if that tree goes, well, I'll go with it." But the tree held and there was brush all around me. I had to get chopped out. There was one man injured in that, that I know of. He was right next to me. He was under that brush. They chopped him out with machetes and took him back.

ZEITLIN: What was the weather like?

PANKRATZ: Well, sometimes it rained. It rained a lot; well, it rained everyday you might say. At one time it was awful hot; about ten, fifteen minutes after it rained the ground was just as dry as before the rain.

ZEITLIN: All the while you are marching through this grassy country 00:17:00 with--

PANKRATZ: No, there was a trail. There were trails and through, you might say, through the mountains, trees.

ZEITLIN: Palm trees?

PANKRATZ: No, uh, every kind of tree you can think. Tropical trees. They were from, I'd say, from three or four feet in diameter, and smaller ones. It was a regular forest.

ZEITLIN: Then you got to the coast and were put on ships and taken up the coast a ways to--

PANKRATZ: We were taken up a little ways on ships. One ship, I was on, it was an old destroyer from World War I they said. The protection we had was a bamboo pole sticking up as an ack-ack. We 00:18:00all were on the deck with our rifles for protection. There were a lot of Jap planes at the time but that day nobody, none of them encountered us. We had a guide, he was a native. I think a native police that guided the boat up the coast. Once we hit a sand bar but we got through that alright. Then when we unloaded, we had these natives; they had canoes and, well, a couple bamboo poles. Then another canoe, a smaller canoe--

ZEITLIN: How big were--

PANKRATZ: Right next to it and they took us to shore.

ZEITLIN: And they could take a whole--How many men did they take to shore that way?

PANKRATZ: Maybe 00:19:00 ten.

ZEITLIN: But the whole battalion or the whole unit?

PANKRATZ: Well, back and forth--

ZEITLIN: Until the entire the 128th Infantry was?--

PANKRATZ: No. Our company was the only one on that boat.

ZEITLIN: Were you joined then by the rest of the 128th Infantry in the next couple of days?

PANKRATZ: Well, from there we went on this three-day hike and there the whole battalion went over that. Then we got to another town. I can't remember the towns. Then we went on a, we hitched a ride on a Dutch ship. It was a small cargo ship and they took us up to a 00:20:00place just before Buna there.

ZEITLIN: Cape Endaiadere?

PANKRATZ: It wasn't that far up. It was Cape, uh, it was across the river from there. There was our headquarters and our supplies. Hospital. We was there about a day or two then we crossed the river. Then we ran into Japs. That was November, about November 19th.

ZEITLIN: Tell me about that. Tell me about the first encounter that you had with the Japanese.

PANKRATZ: We crossed this river to set up a perimeter overnight. It was dark when we crossed it to set up a perimeter. We stayed in that perimeter overnight. In the morning we took off. We were only gone, 00:21:00when we were shot at right away.

ZEITLIN: Was there any information about how many Japanese there were?

PANKRATZ: Well, no we had no information like that at all.

ZEITLIN: As far as you knew there were many Japanese on the Buna area or just a few?

PANKRATZ: Well, there was quite a few.

ZEITLIN: Alright, you--

PANKRATZ: There was well forty-five, whatever one was that.

ZEITLIN: In your squad, what was your job?

PANKRATZ: I was a BAR man, just like a rifleman.

ZEITLIN: Was the BAR an effective weapon?

PANKRATZ: It was effective, oh yes. It was automatic. It fired twenty rounds with one magazine.

ZEITLIN: Was it heavy?

PANKRATZ: It was heavy, yeah. 00:22:00ZEITLIN: Dir your squad moved up and encountered Japanese opposition and they brought in heavier weapons. How did you deal with the Japanese?

PANKRATZ: Well, there were no heavy weapons. We just got in the line-of-fire and hoped we didn't get hit. It was uh, that's where I got wounded. Then I went back.

ZEITLIN: So, you were wounded the first day in action?

PANKRATZ: Uh, second day.

ZEITLIN: The second day in action?

PANKRATZ: Yeah.[Coughing in background] ZEITLIN: Where did you get hit?

PANKRATZ: Uh, through the left arm.

ZEITLIN: Sniper?

PANKRATZ: Yup.

ZEITLIN: So, you were hit in the left arm, second day in action and they carried you out to a field, uh--

PANKRATZ: Yeah, I was a walking patient. I walked back to the, uh, crossed the river to a hospital there. I stayed 00:23:00until that evening. There was a barge come in and I got on that barge. They sent me off right away because I was a walking patient. Sent me right off.

ZEITLIN: Where did they send you to?

PANKRATZ: To, uh, to an airport down, I think it was [inaudible] or somewhere around in there and the across the Owen Stanley Range again to Port Moresby. From there I went to, I was there about a week I guess and then I went back to Australia. I stayed, I was in the hospital forty-five days. After that I went back to the company and stayed with them until 1945.

ZEITLIN: So, in forty-five days, that meant--when did you return?

PANKRATZ: Oh, well I didn't go back to New Guinea at all. The company 00:24:00came back to Australia. I joined them there.

ZEITLIN: Then you were in on other phases of the [Midway Campaign??].

PANKRATZ: Yeah, I was with them at, till Saidor, Finschafen, Aitape, Leyte and Luzon.

ZEITLIN: And how were those operations?

PANKRATZ: They were rough.

ZEITLIN: Thinking back, do you think of the early days of the Buna Operation, how would you contrast the Buna, which was really early in the war. This was the first operation of the war. How would you contrast that to the later ones? Let's say Luzon.

PANKRATZ: They were rough. Luzon was the roughest one. But we had much better equipment and much more of it. At Buna we didn't have the equipment that we should have had. Like 00:25:00the day before we encountered the Japs, there was four of our supply ships got sunk right in the harbor there, you know, and we lost all those supplies and we were really hurting on rations and ammunition.

ZEITLIN: Was the Japanese Air Force fairly active?

PANKRATZ: Oh yes. Yeah they were. They had Zeroes in the air at the time and they had a lot of them. They'd come several times a day to get hit. Strafed.

ZEITLIN: And the Americans didn't have anything to oppose them or?

PANKRATZ: Well, they had them at Port Moresby and by the time they got there, all the Japanese were, you might say they were back home again.

ZEITLIN: Was [inaudible] called Oro Bay? Was that the place?

PANKRATZ: Ah, Oro Bay? You don't mean 00:26:00Milne maybe, do you?

ZEITLIN: Not Milne--that's further south.

PANKRATZ: Yeah, that's way south. I don't remember Oro Bay.

ZEITLIN: [Inaudible] The conditions, though, at Buna, were--would you call them primitive? I mean, were the conditions, as far as the Allies were concerned, were they--you didn't have enough supplies, you mentioned, the food was--

PANKRATZ: Not, not--some of the food was hard to eat. We ate it, but I weighed 119 pounds when I came out of there. Most of the fellows were about the same shape.

ZEITLIN: And was there enough clothing, and ammunition, and medical equipment?

PANKRATZ: Well, that, 00:27:00that--clothes I had was on my back. And we tried to travel as light as we could, you know. We threw away everything that we didn't need--but, ah, you know, we, even the tripod on my gun I threw away.

ZEITLIN: You didn't use the tripod?

PANKRATZ: No. that was to hold the gun in place while--

ZEITLIN: Yeah.

PANKRATZ: It was extra weight. And we did pick up, ah, quite a few coconut to eat.

ZEITLIN: How were you able to control the aiming of your rifle, the BAR, without the tripod?

PANKRATZ: Well, firing the same as an M1.

ZEITLIN: I think it's heavy though, so heavy.

PANKRATZ: Well, 00:28:00it's not that heavy. But it's something we really didn't need, except for if we was in a mounted position. But when we were moving we didn't need it.

ZEITLIN: The Japanese, you felt were, do you feel that they were better equipped than we were?

PANKRATZ: I don't--they didn't have better equipment. They had .25 caliber guns where we had .30 caliber. But they seemed to have a lot of firepower.

ZEITLIN: How was the morale? What would you say, describe as the morale of the Americans? Did they feel the Buna operation was a good one? Was a good idea, it was being supported?

PANKRATZ: Well, we didn't know--most of the time we didn't know what--why 00:29:00we were there, what we were doing. We found out probably weeks and months later what we were doing in the papers that we got, we got in.

ZEITLIN: Thinking back to that time in your life, what would you say the most, some of the outstanding characteristics are when you think back to that Buna situation--the move through there, the actions in there, the--

PANKRATZ: Well, it's--

ZEITLIN: I mean, you're a person who's experienced quite a bit of action. And you'd be able to compare and, you know, give good information I think.

PANKRATZ: It's--I don't know, an experience you'll never forget. You're scared. And you're confused. And you just don't know what's happening. 00:30:00ZEITLIN: Scared. Confused. Not knowing what's happening. Those are the--

PANKRATZ: Those are the--some of the big things.

ZEITLIN: Are you proud that you went through it? How do you feel about that?

PANKRATZ: Well, yes, I'm glad I got through it. But I'd never care to go through it again. Just lucky to, to get through it, the few things I was there.

ZEITLIN: Do you think the United States did the right thing in World War II?

PANKRATZ: Yes, I think it had to be. We was convinced it had to be. 00:31:00I don't know--was we brainwashed, or what? We thought were--we thought we were doing the right thing.

ZEITLIN: Do you think that the leadership of the 32nd Division was up to the job?

PANKRATZ: Yes, I think our men did a good job but--reading books--headquarters didn't think we were doing a good job. But we was, it was, there was people dyin', and hurt, and, ah, even though some leadership that wasn't the best, but we had a good leadership there.

ZEITLIN: What 00:32:00was the attitude toward General MacArthur?

PANKRATZ: Well, my opinion is he's--he was a slave driver. I don't think he knew what was going on most of the time, because according to books I read the different things that what he said and how he put things, he didn't know what really was, how bad it really was up there and how many Japs were there and how rough it was to get there. Most of us were just worn out when we headed into Japs. But we still had to fight.

ZEITLIN: A lot of sickness? How was the medical care?

PANKRATZ: Yes. There was a lot of malaria at that time. 00:33:00ZEITLIN: And the medical care was adequate you felt?

PANKRATZ: As adequate as you could expect under the circumstances--Jungle, the supplies they had.

ZEITLIN: Do you feel that the Buna Operation was an operation that didn't have to be?

PANKRATZ: Well, I think it was a start. It was some that we--that the higher-ups at headquarters didn't know what was, what we was up against. And later on the, by-passing some of 00:34:00these Jap strongholds was the way to go. At that time that was the first, we was the first ones to encounter the Japanese. You might say there was fighting at Solomon Islands and Guadalcanal, but that was about the same as Buna.

ZEITLIN: That one gets a lot more press.

PANKRATZ: Yeah. [nods] ZEITLIN: Guadalcanal gets a lot more press.

PANKRATZ: I think it does.

ZEITLIN: Do you have any idea why? You know I always wonder. Why? Same thing was taking place at the same time.

PANKRATZ: Maybe because they were marines.

ZEITLIN: Right.

PANKRATZ: They had different correspondents, I suppose. It makes a difference.

ZEITLIN: Did you guys see a lot of press correspondents when you were there?

PANKRATZ: Yes. 00:35:00We saw a few. But, ah--yeah, there was correspondents.

ZEITLIN: Well, I guess it's on the--can you think of anything else? Looking back now, fifty years perspective, what are the, do you have like any ideas of summarizing that whole World War II experience that you could share with us? What do you think of it now? I mean, you already--

PANKRATZ: Well, I think it was a good experience for me, but I don't want to do it again and--I'm not sorry I was over there. One thing, when 00:36:00we was at Buna, we got orders that--not to take any Jap prisoners. Because the only Jap that's good is, a good Jap is a dead one. That was drilled into our--drilled into us so deep that I, I half-way believe it today.

ZEITLIN: Did any of the Japanese try [to get away??] PANKRATZ: No. We did take some. Not at Buna, though, but later on we did take some. There was no way to take care of them, in the first place.