Oral History Interview with Paul Dolan

[Interview Begins]

SORENSON: This is an interview with Paul Dolan, who served with the Marine Embassy Security Guard during the global war on terror. This interview is being conducted at the UW Madison Campus at 333 East Campus Mall, Madison, Wisconsin, on December 7, 2010. The interviewer is Matthew Sorenson. So, Paul, tell me a little bit about your background and which service you joined and why you decided to join.

DOLAN: I was born in [XXXXXX], Wisconsin. I enlisted in the Marine Corps in July of 2001 and I was in the delayed entry program for eleven months before I went to boot camp and served active duty.

SORENSON: What factors influenced you deciding to join the Marine Corps instead of like the Navy or the Air Force?

DOLAN: When I was younger my advisor in high school found all their like college applications, I just realized I didn't want to do that. I just felt it wouldn't 00:01:00be for me. I looked into different services and the first one I looked into was the Army and I wanted to be like a medic or like a, or just someone that would work with, you know, injured--I guess, yeah, injured. The more I talked to the Army, the more I talked to the Navy and the Marines I just felt like the Marines provided the challenge I wanted and I decided that, I mean as a service, the Marine Corps is more like what I was really looking for. So, then, like I said, I was in the late entry program for about eleven months before I actually started serving.

SORENSON: How did your family feel about you joining the Marine Corps?

DOLAN: Well, they really didn't have much to say about it because I was pretty determined. I mean I was already bringing in Army recruiters and service recruiters and I mean it was just a matter of time. Like I said, I had little to no discipline whatsoever and I was kind of flying off the seats of my pants anyway so they figured a little direction probably would have been good for me.

SORENSON: How did you, when did you deploy to, or you went to boot camp in July, 2001?

DOLAN: I went to boot camp in July of 2002.

SORENSON: OK, so. Where did you go, Parris Island or San Diego?

DOLAN: San Diego.

SORENSON: San Diego. Did you have a choice? I know they give some guys a choice where they go.

DOLAN: Kind of. I mean, they said that, I actually went through maps. I went through Minneapolis and like I said, I could have went to, I don't know where else, like Chicago or something, but Minneapolis was just closer for me and my recruiter. So by me signing on that west side of the Mississippi I automatically got sent to San Diego.

SORENSON: So then the 9/11 attacks occurred while you were in the delayed entry program. How did you feel about that when the attacks happened? How did you find out about it?

DOLAN: I was actually in school, in high school. And I remember showing up to school late that day and all the teachers and principals were all running around 00:03:00talking about planes hitting buildings and I really didn't understand what was going on until I sat down and started watching the news. And the interesting thing in my mind was being in the delayed entry program, you know, I was kind of like on standby for military service so I thought maybe within a month or so I'd be pulled out of high school and start serving. Which at first I was kind of scared, but then I realized that's the reason why I signed up for it. So I was kind of prepared for it. I kind of, I mean I was expecting it, but that was unrealistic. So then I actually served first my high school to maintain my deployment day for boot camp in July of 2002. So I mean I was up and ready and eager. I mean at that point just to tee my career as a Marine and kind of give me more of a goal is the reason why we're doing what we're doing.

SORENSON: So when you went to boot camp how did it feel when you first got to boot camp? Did you feel a little lost or nervous?

DOLAN: Obviously I was nervous. They play those big mind games as far as the loud noises and making you stay up all hours of the night, but I mean I was kind of following a simple philosophy which is do what you're told when you're told do it and nobody really messed with you. And going into boot camp I was already a pretty big guy and kind of quiet and so, you know, I really didn't have much of a problem with it.

SORENSON: So the mental games that they played were much more difficult for you than the physical aspect of boot camp?

DOLAN: Well, even the mental games, like I said, I just did what I was told. They said, "Run here," I ran there and they said, "Run there," I ran there. All the mind games, I mean obviously at a certain point I realized the reason they were doing it was just to build like, one, discipline and camaraderie and like a level of like, I don't know, just instant obedience to orders, that kind of thing, you know? I remember sitting in all those classes in boot camp with all the Marine Corps history and wondering why I was doing it, but the more you serve as a Marine you understand less why. It's there of course because of that tradition and the discipline and instilling the like, necessity of camaraderie in boot camp which kind of all made sense more afterwards than actually during it.

SORENSON: Oh, I see. What did you, if you had to say there was a favorite thing about Marine Corps boot camp for you what would that be?

DOLAN: [laughs] Like a situation or just like anything?

SORENSON: Maybe something that happened to you that you really enjoyed or something that you did that was maybe a leadership position or anything?

DOLAN: I guess the most memorable point was, I mean I was born and raised in Wisconsin, never really left for any real reason so going to boot camp was my first time on a plane and everything. When I was actually in San Diego the first time I saw the ocean was on like a forced boots and utes [utility uniforms] run. When you like have a cami thing. And I remember coming across the mountain we were coming over and I was just dead tired and you see just this vast open ocean. That was just kind of awe inspiring. I went down there and the recruiters 00:06:00were all like, "Why don't you go down there, guys, and touch the water" and I felt like a sense of, like, I don't know, warmth over me. Then I realized we had to get down in the water and start doing pushups and they like penalized us. So at the same time it's a happy painful bliss. But I mean it was my first time actually being in the ocean and seeing it so it was pretty cool. And running back I had a lot of chafing due to salt water and sand in my pants, but it was still a good time.

SORENSON: [laughs] Do you still remember your drill instructors, their names and all that?

DOLAN: Oh, the names. I know a few by name. There was Staff Sergeant Milson, Sergeant Hutton, Sergeant Zanita, and Sergeant--I forget the fourth one's name. I could probably pick their face out.

SORENSON: Oh, definitely. Was there any memorable time when you were getting your butt chewed out by the DIs that really stands out in your memory?

DOLAN: Like I said, I was really lucky because, like I said, I always did what I was told when I was told to do it and I was a pretty big guy. So a lot of times I always got tasked with the odd jobs of like helping other recruits on how to 00:07:00carry your pack or just getting through somewhere like pushing them on the pullup bar. And as an individual like in IT, like intensive training kind of thing, it only happened to me like twice when it happens to most recruits all the time. And I remember one time, a few times, we'd be doing a march and I'd be screwing up and the drill head or whoever who would say he wants to punch you pulled me out of line and my [inaudible] Drill Sergeant would walk by and said, "Get Dolan back in there." For some reason my senior was always kind of like looking out for me. I remember one time I woke up early one night and one of the guys didn't like the way I was dressed or way I was moving so he was like, "IT me" on the quarterdeck at like 6:00 in the morning. I looked half dressed, the underwear, the boot on and half a shirt on. And then my senior walks in, he's like, "Dolan, why are you doing this?" And I was like, "Because I was told to by Drill Sergeant So and So." He's like, "Get back in line, get dressed, and I'll take care of you." And I was like, "All right." So I mean I don't know why I was looked after but I always kind of was.

I mean there was actually one time, I'm not sure if it was like potentially a leadership position for squad leader or guide, but they told the guy that if he kept fucking up I'd take his spot and like that night the squad leaders and the guide took me into the shower room. Kind of confronted me, and kind of like a little small scuffle, a little altercation, but the guys kind of came in and put 00:08:00it all to rest. But I mean it was just. It's pointless to listen to other people's boot camp stories because mine wasn't as severe or as painful. I think they used me for, I don't know, they used my talents in different ways than just beat me up, I guess. I was pretty lucky.

SORENSON: So the guide and the squad leaders were like that angry with you about.

DOLAN: Yeah, I guess the guy said he was pissed off I was going to take his position and I was like, "I'm not doing anything out of the ordinary. I'm just doing pulls. You're the one screwing up so if you keep screwing up I guess I'll have to take your position" and then a little scuffle broke out and by the time; it got squashed pretty quick, but yeah.

SORENSON: Did you get a good couple swings in there?

DOLAN: Yeah, went to the ground pretty quick, but I mean I guess it was nothing special. Just an ironic situation to be put in.

SORENSON: That's awesome. That's the first time I've ever heard of a fight breaking out at boot camp actually. When you graduated boot camp, when they called you a Marine for the first time, were your parents there for the graduation ceremony?

DOLAN: Yeah.

SORENSON: How did that feel?

DOLAN: It was pretty amazing. Like I said, my family just like we didn't do much 00:09:00traveling. That's the first time they actually left the west coast. And all my brothers showed up. I had two older and one younger. They even brought my grandma up there. My grandma like refused to fly for any reason. She's pretty old. So the fact they were there for like a day or two beforehand so they could see the San Diego area, I mean you could get help. You got that [inaudible] to put in your hand right before you walked out on the quarterdeck. So I already had my, my heart went right into my throat and I felt pretty proud and you did the run and the march and the family can watch and everything. It was just like those goosebumps to the back of your neck. At that moment of my life I felt like I actually accomplished something and did something worthwhile, you know? I just kind of like was eager to be alive and eager to do something better than myself. Like I said, it's hard to compare it to anything else than actually what it was.

SORENSON: Definitely.

DOLAN: I actually even still have my original AGA that my fuckin' DI gave me.

SORENSON: Oh, you do?

DOLAN: Yeah.

SORENSON: Oh, my gosh, awesome. How did it feel when you came back on leave when you were hanging with your friends and everything?

DOLAN: Oh, I got into a lot of trouble.

SORENSON: Oh, you did?

DOLAN: Well, I felt like I was ten-foot-tall, bulletproof and, like I said, my buddies are in college and I had to walk on campus with my boot camp high and tight and a green skivvy shirt like I owned the world and I didn't own anything. [laughs] So, I was actually, um, I was home for ten days on leave and I actually got extended for like fourteen days of recruiter's assistance, which was kind of nice, and those fourteen I got in trouble with the law a little bit.

SORENSON: Oh, yeah?

DOLAN: And I actually was, my court date was going to be after I was supposed to leave and my recruiter just told me, when I told him his response was, he's just like, "Go home now, go get your blues on, come back, and we'll go to court." And I was like, "I'm not scheduled for anything." He's like, "I don't care, we're just going to go."

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: So we showed up and he walked in there and you know they have to take lists of names and who's going to do what and we obviously weren't supposed to be there so the judge asked us, my recruiter stood up on my behalf, and said, "Well, I got in trouble for alcohol possession, illegal transportation because I 00:11:00had like beer in a car. I blew by a cop and I was going to a party. So I wasn't drinking and driving, I just had possession of alcohol. And he just, you know, told the judge, "He's home for leave, he's helping me out." And he's like, "We don't know whose alcohol it was, but he's like, he's about to do good things for our country. To my, he's fine." And the judge says, "Okay. the one thing I can't overlook is a ten-dollar seat belt fine" because I hadn't been wearing a seat belt. So I had to give him ten dollars, but I got out of eight hundred other dollars' worth of fines.

SORENSON: Wow, that's awesome.

DOLAN: So other than that I was relatively well behaved.

SORENSON: Did you stay in contact with your recruiter throughout your enlistment?

DOLAN: As long as he was in my hometown I was. I know when he went to Texas and got like moved to his B billet that I pretty much lost touch and I think he just kind of faded away. I mean. He kind of got out too because he was at, I think, 00:12:00seventeen years when I came in. So by the time I got through boot camp and everything he was probably pushing eighteen, nineteen years.

SORENSON: Oh, I see.

DOLAN: You know how they only do the twenty unless they give you something special kind of thing or you kind of got forced out.

SORENSON: What was your MOS [military occupational specialty] at this time?

DOLAN: Originally I was a radar technician. I remember, It's ironic, I remember sitting down when I decided I was going to be a Marine and they give you that big book of jobs you're going to do and I was flipping through it and the first thing I wanted to do was be a Marine security guard. I read the job description and the recruiter tried explaining what a B-billet was and I didn't understand at the time. So I had to like pick something else. I mean [inaudible] scores and 00:13:00everything else, just from what I qualified for they said I should go into avionics or like intelligence.

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: And I just asked them, I was like, "What's the difference?" I was pretty naïve. And he said, "Avionics is with airplanes, things like intelligence, you can't talk to your family ever again." So just off their recommendation I was like I'll work with airplanes, you know? [laughs] So I mean I got out of boot camp and they sent me down to Pensacola, Florida and I went through my common core electronics school there which is about three months long and that's just basic mathematics and just kind of like the electronical basic electronics. And after I graduated from that I got sent to aviation ISTRAN (Information Systems for Transportation) they call it and ISTRAN works more with electronic components of airplanes and like I guess helos and like that and just more relation to systems and boards and capacitors. I mean it's very tedious and technical and working with equipment. I did that for like six months and after I graduated from that school a portion of us were eligible for a follow-on school and I was one of them, I was qualified. And they basically told me to go to 00:14:00radar school. And in radar school I went to, I basically went from working on the components of an airplane to the components that would land aircraft. And it was just like a three-ton box that [inaudible] three-sixty kind of spin of radar and two hundred seventy nautical miles of aerial surveillance and identifies aircraft as like friend, foe, or unidentified. You had second radar that was called precision approach where for ten nautical miles it will just lock onto an aircraft and show where its land point's got to be and can pretty much land the plane for itself. So for that nine months I pretty much focused just on those two pieces of equipment and then just kind of the interface between our equipment and the air traffic control tower and stuff like that. So I actually 00:15:00spent a total of eighteen months down in Pensacola, Florida going through all those schools.

SORENSON: Wow, eighteen months.

DOLAN: Spent eighteen months in school and I only spent twelve months in the fleet actually doing that job.

SORENSON: Wow. How did you like Pensacola? I know it's a Navy base. How did you like being stationed on a Navy base down there?

DOLAN: I didn't know any better. And like I said, being from Wisconsin where I just know the cold winters, being in Florida was just a blessing. I mean I lived like a twenty-minute cab ride from the beach. I mean there was community colleges around there with like young girls. I mean like I said [inaudible] at that point.

SORENSON: [laughs]

DOLAN: But the one thing I always remembered was my first nine months there on base I mean I was kind of with a more strict unit where they were saying, "This is your job." It wasn't very easy. I mean it was a very difficult school and they wanted to make sure that your attention was focused on the academics and not the environment. So they had a lot of liberty restrictions and things you could and could not do off of base. So for nine months I pretty much spent in my barracks or on base. And then after a while when I got sent down to that additional school for another nine months I'm like I just wasted half my time here doing nothing, so that's when I started going out and actually enjoying myself. I mean Pensacola is a great town. I had more fun there in those last nine months than I could ever imagine. I mean meeting all those -- the Marines I was going to school with were the same Marines I was going to serve in the fleet with so building those bonds there was great and just the actual environment. 00:16:00The [inaudible] were stationed out of there so I was always kind of getting picked up to work for jobs for them. And the community was real supportive of the military. It was just you felt welcome and it was nice. There was a lot of stuff to do and Panama City was close by for spring break and New Orleans for Mardi Gras so there was fun ways to get yourself in trouble too.

SORENSON: Did you have any run-ins with any sailors down in Pensacola? I know a lot of Marines who were stationed down there who would have scuffles from time to time with the Navy.

DOLAN: Not too bad. My common core class was definitely called the blue versus the green class because it was all Navy and Marines together. So you always had guys going back and forth and the Marines are pretty cocky so we did start most of it. But I never actually had an altercation or fight with a sailor guy, but I did have some problems with my Marine buddies dating like Navy girls. So that always was what caused drama with the Navy guys, but I never got involved with that. But I mean not too bad.

SORENSON: Describe those twelve months that you worked as a radar technician in the fleet. Where were you stationed?

DOLAN: Right after school? They give you the list of where you want to go. I mean with my job there's only nine bases and it was like three of them were on the east coast, three were on the west coast , and then one was in Hawaii and two were in Japan, one Okinawa and one on the mainland. And like I said, I hadn't really gone anywhere so I figured why not sign myself up to go overseas and I wanted to go to assign for Okinawa and Iwakuni and right as I set foot into Okinawa my squadron just returned from like an eight-month deployment and they just got there like a week or so before I got there. So I really didn't have the time to like deploy when I was there. And the sister squad out of Iwakuni just left so I never got forward deployed, but I mean when I was in 00:18:00Okinawa my primary mission was to get our gear back into a deployable unit. I mean because working with basically three tons of electronics, keeping it cold in the desert, trying to keep the dust off the electronics, I mean they just got filthy. And when they shipped our equipment back, I think they were stationed on the border of Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan, they called it, I'm not sure what base it was called, but when they shipped from there back to Okinawa there was a lot of damage to the equipment so my twelve months in Oki was just trying to fix the equipment and get it back to deployable, like operational settings again.

SORENSON: Oh, I see.

DOLAN: So it was a lot of maintenance and a lot of repair to it.

SORENSON: Did you like doing that?

DOLAN: It was very, very tedious. I mean I'm kind of like a big gorilla, I break things very easily and my attention to detail is not very good. So I mean they had a lot of mechanical portions of it you had to like, because we were a deployable unit we had to be able to tear all of our equipment and put them inside of each other and set them on the crates and ship them out. So I mean we 00:19:00got a lot of practice doing that with all the typhoons that were coming through Okinawa, but when it came down to like cleaning cards, electronic cards, and making sure different programs were properly working, making sure all our maps were properly made out to landscape and, that was just the tedious small, like preventive maintenance stuff I just hated to do. I mean I did my job because it was my responsibility, but I just didn't really enjoy it. And the funny thing was the whole time I was there I still wanted to be a Marine security guard. Like I said, I remember the very first day sitting in the recruiter's office looking at the book saying, "I want to do that" and that was when I started going through school, being in Okinawa, when I realized I could maybe become a Marine security guard someday. And that was kind of ironic because at the time Okinawa only had one-year deployments at the time and a lot of units wouldn't let new Marines join the Marine security guard program because they had a two-year commitment. I was one of those rare ones where I only had a one-year 00:20:00commitment because I was overseas.

SORENSON: Oh, wow, I see.

DOLAN: I got pretty lucky also because in my Okinawa command we did, my senior officers really liked me because like we were undermanned for most of the time when I was there and we got a lot of work done. And there was a lot of problems with the Japanese government in our airbase because they're trying to get rid of the Marine air base out there in Oki, in Futenma. And they had a, like a helicopter crash in like the university when I was over there. So they had this big deal about our necessity of being there and they wanted to come and look at every equipment. I remember there were whole weeks we'd spend making sure our equipment was properly set up, making sure it was ready to go. And what I was saying, our equipment was just like trash when we got it back from the deployment. We were able to get it up and fully operational before those Japanese investigations came through. So that was kind of an accomplishment that--we got a letter of recommendation and commendation for it from like our senior command. So that was kind of nice, a little recognition. I think that 00:21:00also helped me in my application for the security guard program.

SORENSON: Oh, I see.

DOLAN: Because I mean spending a year and a half in school and only a year in the fleet is pretty rare for you to get kicked out for a B billet right away, you know?

SORENSON: Right, exactly. What years? I'm sorry, before that were you stationed at Futenma Air Base on Okinawa?

DOLAN: Yeah, the whole time I was in Futenma, yeah.

SORENSON: And what year was this that you were stationed there?

DOLAN: I would say, was it 2004ish? Or was it 2003 because I know I graduated in [pause] like 2003, 2004.

SORENSON: What was your rank while you were a radar tech over there?

DOLAN: I picked up corporal when I was in Okinawa. I graduated school as a lance corporal.

SORENSON: How was the transition from a lance corporal to a corporal? Did they treat you differently, did you have more responsibilities?

DOLAN: There wasn't really much of a change in my shop because our shop was supposed to have sixteen members in it. I think it was like two gunnies, four staff NCOs [non-commissioned officers] and a couple sergeants and a bunch of lance corporals and PFCs. When I was there, we only had. For about three months you only had five people, one staff sergeant and four lance corporals down below.

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: So I mean we were doing one shop with like four guys the work of like four times ourselves or twice as much as ourselves. I mean I was just kind of taking the role as being this radar tech who's been here longest as far as what 00:23:00needs to get done and how to do it. We did mock deployments to northern parts of the island to make sure that we knew how to properly deploy our equipment and I was kind of as lance corporal in charge of packing everything up, making sure it was set up straight and pointing the right direction. And I mean, like. I guess at the time I thought my command made me do that because I was the one who was there longest and I was the best, but ideally I was also the one because I was the only one who knew how to do it. So when I got promoted it was kind of like, I mean it was a nice thing, but my job really didn't change much because I was still responsible for the equipment. I mean I didn't go through like corporal school or something like that either.

SORENSON: Oh, really?

DOLAN: I just basically tended and I was on my way.

SORENSON: When did you find out that were you accepted to the Marine security guard, embassy guard?

DOLAN: I don't know the exact date, but it was within like my eleventh month on Okinawa. So it was right before my tour was about to come up.

SORENSON: Oh, I see. You sound like you were probably really excited to hear that.

DOLAN: Oh, yeah.

SORENSON: Definitely, huh? Did you have to go somewhere else to be trained as a security guard or embassy guard?

DOLAN: Yeah, embassy guard school is in Quantico, Virginia, so I had orders for that. And it was a little short of three months long. It was like two and a half, I think.

SORENSON: How was that training?

DOLAN: That was more or less the reason why I joined the Marine Corps. Was, I mean like, when I thought of a Marine I thought, you know, kicking in doors and going across enemy borders, I mean, doing bad stuff to bad people, you know?

SORENSON: Yeah, definitely.

DOLAN: So when I spent all that time you know, in the schoolhouse doing electronics stuff and being a radar tech, I really wasn't feeling like I should be in a Marine. You know. So, I went to you know, embassy school you know, we 00:25:00were learning like you know, small arms combat, you know, working with all the weapons, you know, working on you know, joint manipulation, you know, how to take down, you know an aggressor, you know, how to defend yourself. I mean, learning you know, learning [inaudible] on a force continuum, that was where I felt like I belonged. It was kind of like I'm actually going to be kicking in doors, getting bad guys, and protecting the good. That was the impression I got, but also along with these classes I was taking about how to be badasses, you also were taking classes about how to tie a tie, how to properly eat in like a diplomatic setting, how to dress properly. Me, in my mind, I was like I don't really understand why, I mean at one point they give you like $1,400 to go shop for like clothes and that's because you've got to buy the suits and you've got to buy the blazers and the khakis and all this stuff because you're in a 00:26:00diplomatic setting where you've kind of got to be a little bit of both worlds. You've got to be all Marine, but you still kind of had to have a diplomatic presence, you know. So it was kind of a unique experience, but I definitely really enjoyed it going through.

SORENSON: What kind of firearms were you trained to use at embassy guard training school?

DOLAN: We had the nine-mil pistol. You had the 870 shotgun. We had M-16 training which later on got converted to M4 training. We did a familiarization with the AK-47 and familiarization with the nine-mil submachine gun. And then we were trained with the ASP, the Tom, pepper spray training.

SORENSON: Wow. What was the difference in feeling between shooting an M-16 and shooting an AK-47?

DOLAN: It was surprisingly, I mean I didn't really see much of a difference. I 00:27:00mean the sights are a bit different and the kick rolls a bit more, but it was still just kind of, it felt awkward compared to M-16, but the mechanics are the same, pull the trigger and rounds go down the range in the right direction. [laughs] I mean we really didn't train much. It was more of they call it familiarization. So basically [inaudible] said to me, "Put ten rounds downrange." So it really wasn't like we were actually running with them.

SORENSON: Would you have to carry? I'm assuming you wouldn't have to carry all those weapons when you were on duty at the embassy. Which ones did you guys normally carry?

DOLAN: On our gunny belt we had the M-9, the pepper spray, paint plus two extra clips of rounds, a radio. The only thing we didn't carry on our persons was the 00:28:00shotgun. That was usually under our desk or like on the wall. The M-16s were, if you had them at your post it would be like in the react room which is pretty much the room you keep all your equipment like your flak jackets and your rounds and weapons. That would be in emergency situations only you'd be using those rounds. So we weren't issued submachine guns. We weren't issued the AK-47s. It was just the A-7 shotguns and nine mils. And if you're lucky your post had the M-16s or M-4s.

SORENSON: How was the Marine's uniform guarding an embassy different from a Marine's uniform normally? Are there any significant differences?

DOLAN: As a Marine security guard you're supposed to represent not only the 00:29:00Marine Corps, but like the front of the United States of America. When people walk in the embassy, and our primary mission is internal security and that's just like the actual physical building itself. We don't have much responsibility outside the actual front gates of the embassy. So like a daytime shift you'd be in your blues, like your deltas, with your short sleeve khaki shirt and your dress blue pants. So you always want to make sure they're crisp and ready to go, but they really weren't very tactful. I mean if there was an attack on the embassy everybody would be running around with core frames on and like a brown shirt. So in the late-night shifts like in the evening or late night you'd be able to wear camis. That was always kind of the thing I always had a conflict with. It's like my daytime uniform, I'm not really combat ready. However, at that point you're kind of more of a diplomat as opposed to actually like a, you know.

SORENSON: I see. Walk me through a typical day as a corporal as an embassy guard.

DOLAN: Depending on, you always had multiple shifts because you always had twenty-four-hour security at the embassy. And you had a morning shift when you would ensure that everybody coming in and out of the building in the daytime had the proper identification, the proper authorities, and there's always visiting diplomats or guests from other countries and nations working on any bond building with the United States and you kind of make sure those who are here are supposed to be there and issue out. They have keys to confidential classification rooms and other stuff like safes and you've got to make sure that people who are coming in have the proper authorization to be accessing that kind of stuff. And know securities and alarms to make sure, just a lot of monitoring. You just monitor and make sure everything is going according to plan. And then at the evening shift you just make sure that everything being opened up is now properly being closed down. Like make sure intelligence zones are being accessed or closed down properly, classified keys are being returned back, making sure everybody's out of the building at a certain time. And ensuring that there's 00:31:00nothing left behind or anything unusual activity going on.

I mean, a lot of times in the counter section we also have to maintain security in there. Like a, if a person applying for a visa gets out of hand or unruly you might have to go in there and either escort them out or if they get physically violent you have to regulate whether you're going to have use force on them or not. I mean all kind of dependent on the location and time, but just in terms of security it's just making sure the buildings and the people who are there are supposed to be there.

SORENSON: Did you guys ever have any incidents that stay now in your memory?

DOLAN: That's kind of like one of the things that we were always kind of the front line for it and also the last line of defense for the embassy. So if they had like any biological or chemical warfare attacks we'd be the ones to go in there and either escort people out or evacuate them or made sure they're safe. If there was a gun shooter we'd be the ones to get them in or out of there. If there was a mild attack we'd be the ones to make sure people inside the building were safe. There's like fires or, I mean we're just kind of like the last line 00:32:00of defense and fortunately through most of my career I really didn't have real physical threats. We had, like I said, anthrax threats. We had mobs show up around the building. We had to go in there and make sure if they did come more we'd be prepared for them. But nothing out of the ordinary that I actually had to do anything severe.

SORENSON: What's the protocol for if an embassy is being threatened? Like at what point do you use deadly force to protect the embassy? You know what I mean?

DOLAN: Yeah. That was kinda, I mean. Everybody has their protocols and their proper systems and the weird thing is the Marines operate under the Department 00:33:00of State and also under the Marine Corps and they ideally have the same objective of what they want to do. But I can only speak on a few of my friends who I know have been in a situation and I think one of them was in Toronto and Monrovia? I forgot where he was, but he was somewhere in the northern part of Africa and he was saying that they had like a riot, an uproar, and people were storming the embassy and jumping up the compound and rounds being shot downrange and their responsibility was to destroy all classified so if the embassy got taken over that there wouldn't be any evidence of what they were doing there. So they basically blocked all the doors, locked them all off, and as people were trying to get in they were just shredding documentation, destroying computers, and they were literally, blocking off sections of the building that you basically lock up the building in a way as to deter them from getting in at a rapid pace. You always have these, we call them caller blockers where the door just shuts a magnetic lock so it prevents them coming over down in. And they were just progressively moving back and back and back till they had a standoff point where it's like if they cross this line we're going to have to defend ourselves kind of thing. And as they were moving down they were basically destroying stuff 00:34:00and getting rid of things and evacuating people out of the building. I think they set up a, the Marines were the last ones to leave and they got flown out of there.

SORENSON: Wow.

DOLAN: There also was a case in Jedda when I was serving in the embassy program where they actually, that was probably the most severe case. And. Like I said, when these happen they always sent cables to all the Marines in the embassies of how things occurred and what was done right and what was done wrong. And I can remember correcting Jedda. They had, the actual embassy was being Skyped, not Skyped but scouted by these terrorist groups for quite a while and they were basically timing how the security was going around as far as entering and exit of the building. And they pretty much figured, this embassy has the Marine security guards in the building working security, they have basically paid 00:35:00police or military force from the national government they're with, working external security, usually contracted out. They work the gates, they work perimeter walking around the gates, meaning the fence line.

What happened in Jedda was we had these things called delta barriers and there's these big hydraulic lifts that go in and out of the ground and prevent cars from going in. And what these terrorists did was they basically got in line behind a diplomat and when he went to go under the delta barrier they just blew him over it and they went with him and they jumped out and they basically just ran around and surrounded the embassy. And the Marines were actually living in the compound at the time and luckily enough their house was being, I think, remodeled or redone where they were living and residing in a different location than their house originally was. So when the terrorists came in right away they went right for the Marine house knowing that the Marines were the first line of defense for the embassy. When they got in the Marine house the Marines weren't there. And luckily enough that the Marine at post was catching all this on camera so he 00:36:00locked all the doors, made sure everybody in the embassy who was there was properly safe and keeping everybody out. But yet the Marines who were at the new residence had to come across the compound and get in to do their job and they were basically left vulnerable at the residence without any weapons or protection whatsoever.

So, I guess their communication of cell phones or radios, the Marines were able to lead residents right across the compound and the Marine at post had basically a three-second window [snaps] of when he could unlock a door for the Marines to come in and close it behind them and lock it behind them again. And they were always showing the clips of just how close of a time it was of when these guys forced them to come around the corner and like throwing rounds downrange when the Marines just shut the door. And they get in there and they said they had a standoff for about, said like four or five hours until the National Guard came 00:37:00in and just kind of like mowed them all down and killed them. But they came in, they said the terrorists had a certain gel they were rubbing on--like a ballistic gel they were trying to rub on the glass windows trying to blow it up or burn through the glass. And they were trying to shoot through all the windows. It was a pretty good standoff there for quite a while until they actually came in and settled down. But that was just kind of an example of, once the Marines were inside the building they actually suited up, got their flaks, their Kevlars, and got all the weapons they had on them, and they would just take posts in the embassy of like, you know, lookout points to make sure no one's coming in, coming out, and monitoring the situation externally for anybody to come in. But I think the guy who was the Marine at post got a bronze star for his actions that he did on post for making sure everybody in there was safe and nobody got in.

SORENSON: So there's always the very real possibility that embassy guards might face a combat situation.

DOLAN: Yeah, exactly. That was one of the two faced part of the job was you 00:38:00didn't want to get put in that monotony of always coming in and feeling like you're just putting on a uniform and handling keys. I mean there's always a threat especially when they had the war on terrorism. I mean even in Athens, Greece, that embassy there, you would think Greece would be a relatively peaceful country, but they had a terrorist group who didn't agree with a policy that the United States had and they sent an RPG [rocket-propelled grenade] through the front door of the American embassy which almost hit a Marine at the front desk. I mean so there's always like, there's times where as an American embassy you are that model of America overseas and if someone has a problem with you they're going to take it out on you. So it's always kind of like you can't get soothed or to be lulled into, you know. Yeah. You've always kind of got to be on your toes.

SORENSON: In your time as an embassy guard was there common knowledge of places that you really would not want to be stationed at?

DOLAN: It all kind of depends on what you really wanted. I mean some guys wanted the embassy with the beach up front and some guys wanted the embassy with, you know, in the middle of Iraq or Afghanistan in Kabul or Baghdad. And that was kind of when I was going through school, I mean, I wanted to get stationed at what they would call a hardship post like Kabul or Baghdad and I did a lot of psychiatric testing and just like personal testing in school to kind of figure out whether you're qualified or where you'd go best in. They said I wasn't prepared for one of those hardship posts at the time. But um. So, what was the question again?

SORENSON: If there's places that embassy guards would not necessarily want to go to, in the world, places that would be more threatening than other places, you know. Iraq, Afghanistan, you mentioned.

DOLAN: There's a lot of posts in Africa where there's a lot of unrest and civil 00:40:00unrest and no control of the government so they said a lot of times the American compound is just kind of the only compound you could be on. I mean you really couldn't get out and be in a city. They said you're kind of isolated. A lot of the posts, like I said, it's like, kind of [inaudible] into yourself. I mean as much as you try to reach out to the community or the culture around you sometimes it's just kind of hard just because of the threat that's out there for you, the physical threat. There's also posts where, there's intelligence rep posts where some Marines wouldn't qualify for because the high threat of personal intelligence gathering and also electronic intelligence gathering. People will. Marines will be out in town, people try to gather, put them in positions of bribery or like the black-market kind of stealing stuff and try to get them in trouble to you know, start engaging information, like government information, that they could use.

One of the most popular cases was in Moscow I think in the '70s with, his name 00:41:00was Sergeant Lonetree and they called it like a honey trap which was a female Russian was used basically to gather intelligence from this Marine security guard and he was just giving out phone directories of people in the embassy, who they were, and she was basically getting all kinds of information from the embassy to like her father who worked for the KGB. And they were just getting access [inaudible] getting access to the building where they were setting up bugs and just kind of doing stuff like that. And they wanted to prevent Marines who are potentially at risk of bribery or being taken advantage of, to keep them out of situations like that. But also to deal with it when it does happen. That was one of the protocols was if you're out in town and someone tries to blackmail you or bribe you, you'd be able to go [inaudible] and say, "Hey, this is what I actually was doing and this is what they tried to get from me." So I mean it's always kind of a slippery slope also with that as far as how much you're interacting with the people as well. Because some people are just curious and some people are trying to actually get something from you.

SORENSON: So when you finished embassy guard training at Quantico, Virginia were 00:42:00you still a corporal when you graduated from there?

DOLAN: Yes.

SORENSON: And when did you graduate, if you recall?

DOLAN: I think probably like late 2004.

SORENSON: And after your embassy guard training where did you go from there?

DOLAN: My first post was The Hague, Netherlands.

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: Yeah. When they told me I wasn't good enough to go to Baghdad or to Kabul they sent me to forty-five minutes south of Amsterdam. [laughs] So I don't know what that's supposed to mean. [laughs]

SORENSON: I mean how was that? Did you have a lot of fun down there?

DOLAN: It's a great time. I mean. Like I said, I went then from MSG [Marine 00:43:00security guard] school thinking I was going to be like the James Bond. I'll be kicking in doors, I'll be just doing good things at the front line fighting terrorism overseas. And Holland doesn't really have a very high threat. So that was kind of one of those posts where you potentially could get lulled into being comfortable. I mean it was great. I mean the culture was warm. As an ally to us there's very little hostility between us or even the local government and being away from home, outside of Japan--when I was in Japan I was on an island so being in Holland kind of gave me the opportunity to take a train to a different country, take a plane. So I obviously did my job and did my job well when I was there, but it also kind of afforded me the ability to kind of go and see new things.

SORENSON: Did you go? Where did you go? Did you take the train to France or 00:44:00Belgium or anything?

DOLAN: Yeah, I took a trip out to Paris. I was in France, I was in Belgium for a while. I went to Rome. I went to Spain for a little bit and I was in Germany, I was in Berlin. So I mean I hopped around.

SORENSON: Yeah, definitely. How long were you in the Netherlands?

DOLAN: I was in the Netherlands for ten or eleven months. They usually do one-year tours at that point, but I got rotated early because I was going to a unique post.

SORENSON: And does anything stick out in your mind as being particularly memorable about your stay in the Netherlands? Were there any incidents at the embassy or anything like that?

DOLAN: Not particularly. I mean a lot of the issues we had were just small, you know, crazy people who were just kind of protesting or striking. A lot of times I was serving during the Bush administration and a lot of his like foreign politics people didn't really agree with so I mean you get all the protesters who come in there and just complain about stuff. But I mean nothing that was really a high threat to our security.

SORENSON: Where did you go after the Netherlands?

DOLAN: I got selected to go to Havana, Cuba. And that was kind of a rare thing because when I was in Holland, like I said, my perception of what we were 00:45:00supposed to be doing there, like I said, protecting America, we really weren't doing. So I kind of like, my responsibilities. they always had collateral duties when you are in these embassies and one they call like the react NCO which means you're kind of responsible for making sure all the equipment like the flak gear and the Kevlars and your weapons and your ammunition are all accounted for and properly set aside so when an attack does happen it's easy to get. And you're also kind of responsible for all the drills. You do like three or four drills a month to make sure you're up to date on all your operational plans in case an attack does occur. And I wasn't really happy with how things were done. They weren't really up to date, they really weren't technically following the 00:46:00anti-terrorism rules that we were supposed to abide by like taking different routes on a regular basis. There was just a variety of things I didn't really like so I guess it was kind of progressively changing when I was there in the Netherlands. And one of our senior command, they'd come down every three months and they either kind of make sure, they go through your books and go through your operation plans to make sure everything's being followed properly. And one of our inspection officers noticed what I'd done and he kind of liked it so he put me up for a board to go to a hardship post and that was kind of how I got nominated to go to Cuba.

And it was kind of like a blessing in disguise because I was supposed to rotate out of that post and they always give you your time to pick and choose where you want to go, where your preference is, and I never got that. They just said, "When we find out where you're going to go we'll just send you there." So I was like, "All right." I was kind of waiting on standby and they gave me a nine-day waiting notice when they said, "Nine days from now you're going to Cuba." So they just rushed through the paper work, gave me my base pack, and they sent me on my way. And I had to go through a special intelligence training. that's why I had to come back, I had to come back those nine days because of, it was like an 00:47:00intel training class as far as, and that was where I learned more about intelligence gathering where you had to be aware of personnel trying to get other information and also keeping up to date as far as potential electronic information-gathering techniques, stuff like that. And that was a two or three-week course, it was being renewed. And a lot of posts for that were the ones in like China, or like Russia, Cuba and I think even some in Israel or in the Ukraine. Those were requirements for that as far as more up to date information, kind of just intelligence gathering and how to like not present yourself as a target. And that was kind of like the hardship post. I mean some 00:48:00of them are actually like physical threats. Like I said, you could be getting a mortar round and some embassies are just--the intel portion, I guess, like an intel post. And that's how I got sent to Cuba.

SORENSON: Was Cuba considered a hardship post mostly because it's in a communist country or were there other things that you noticed as well?

DOLAN: There's a few reasons. It was the only post in the world that was a non-fraternization post where you really couldn't go out and engage the Cuban people either in a personal one on one relationship or romantic. They really had a fear that there was, I mean it was well known there's Cuban intelligence going on like in the building. I mean for that there was a problem and also as far as like you really couldn't get the proper support that you needed down in Cuba because with so much information and embassy and equipment it's very common for diplomatic people to come in to update equipment like computers or printers or 00:49:00any other classified material or forms of communication that we have, put those cables in, we couldn't get those visitors to come in with the information apprised that we needed. Or even the whole part about diplomacy is exchange of ideas between countries and we really weren't getting that much visitation, primarily because we weren't really an embassy, we were just like an intra section of the Swiss embassy. So kind of like we were operating underneath their cloak.

SORENSON: Really?

DOLAN: Yeah, so we were actually part of the Swiss embassy at that point. But ironically enough, the Swiss embassy was a two-story townhouse three miles away from our building which was a seven-story office building.

SORENSON: So would it be correct to say then that there is technically no US 00:50:00embassy in Cuba?

DOLAN: There is no embassy in Cuba. Just a US intra section. And they get around that is the Czech Republic holds a Cuban intra section in Washington, DC. And then also the other regulation we had, we couldn't leave the 25-mile state limits of Cuba and likewise for our Cuban counterparts in DC. They couldn't leave the width of the belt line they have there.

SORENSON: Oh, really?

DOLAN: So there were a lot of restrictions as far as we could and could not do. You know. And I was just kind of getting used to living without the comforts you would in the United States.

SORENSON: So just before you got to Cuba but after you heard that you were going to go there what did you think about going to Cuba? What was your idea of what Cuba was before you got there?

DOLAN: I was a poor historian and I knew little to nothing about it. And 00:51:00ironically enough they were planning--I actually didn't go to Cuba right away. When I got back with that intelligence training there was a visa application process you had to go through because there's only a limited amount of people or Americans who work in Cuba at a time. It was called a [inaudible] post where I would get the visa of the Marine who I was going to replace when he would leave. And a lot of times the Cubans wouldn't release that Marine's visa to me until--I mean they would just procrastinate on the paper work until the last minute. So I actually ended up having to go back and I mean, I stayed with my folks for about a month in the States waiting for my visa. And then they said I was being a wasted resource so the Marine Corps sent me down to Panama City, Panama, for about--an unexpected amount of time to work at that embassy, like temporarily to fill their slot. So when I was down in Panama City it was anywhere from like a week to--and I ended up being there for about three months. So I didn't have the proper authorization to go in there. I had my diplomatic passport, but I mean, my method of actual operating in that country was not properly done.

SORENSON: Oh, really?

DOLAN: Yeah, because I was kind of like just an interim fill-in. So I actually 00:52:00didn't get to Cuba until about four months after I was assigned there.

SORENSON: So what did you do in Panama? Just the same routine that you usually did?

DOLAN: Yeah, just worked security.

SORENSON: Did anything stand out to you about Panama that you found was interesting?

DOLAN: They had a lot, I mean Holland also had a large, like one of the agencies that work with the embassies, they have like FBI, CIA, and they also have the DEA in some agencies. And Holland had some DEA presence because a lot of I guess drug traffic coming out of Europe goes through Rotterdam which a big port in Holland, but I guess Panama City is even one of the larger drug rings or trafficking countries. So that DEA agency was just huge and there were always agents coming in and out working with, trying to reduce the income of drugs in the country. That was pretty much the main objective of the embassy down there 00:53:00was just preventing, you know.

SORENSON: Did you go see the canal down there?

DOLAN: Yeah, I did. It wasn't quite as exciting as I thought it was going to be. Just shipping up and down. But it was pretty cool. There were parts of the country where I went and enjoyed. I mean they had one of the longest traditions of like, I think it was Mayans or one of those down there. I was able to go out and see some of the artifacts from the early settlements when the Spanish came over.

SORENSON: When you would go out; I know you said Cuba was different, you had a limit of where you could go, but when you would go out in these countries would you go with other Marines who were off duty at the time or would you go out there by yourself sometimes?

DOLAN: You were able to go out by yourself if you wanted, but it was always kind of nice to have a Marine with you to kind of enjoy it. They had a liberty buddy program where it was like you don't want to be gone by yourself, all alone, so 00:54:00you could either have another person from the embassy either kind of with or a Marine or if you had someone in town who was like authorized for you to be with. There's always conflict reports and that was one of the aspects of intelligence gathering was everybody you'd meet is you could demand their information and you give it to; it was like a [inaudible] report you would go through and they go up the chain and see if this person had a history of being a member of a radical group or if they had attacks in the US in the past. Basically, making sure if you were hanging with good people. And it was ironic. And so, they called them a proper contact. So if they authorized you to be with them you could. And when I was actually in Cuba, not Cuba, when I was in Panama, I mean, one of the Marines had a contact of a girlfriend who they threw like a red flag and this woman apparently, you know, had anti-American ideals and she had history of trying to 00:55:00organize stuff. Turns out it was just a different person, but she had the same name. They sent this guy down and told him about the threats of this girl and said who she was and she was like forty-seven years old and the Marine's like, "My girlfriend is twenty-three." And they're like, "Are you sure?" He's like, "I'm pretty sure my girlfriend is only twenty-three, not forty-seven." [laughs] So they actually have, they research whoever you're going with so a lot of times you're going out with these, they want to make sure you're with someone from the embassy or you're with somebody who you should be with.

SORENSON: So when you got to Havana what did you notice about Cuba? What stood out right away as being something interesting?

DOLAN: It was just like a flashback in time. I mean. There was no billboards. The buildings were all just concrete brick structures. It was obvisouly, it's a 00:56:00pretty island, but then again, it's kind of like poverty stricken. I mean the roads were all beat up, doesn't look like there's anything been updated in decades. They have these 1950 cars that are still down there, these old Chevys, these old Fords. They're all held together by wood and they've got Russian tractor engines in them to keep them going.

SORENSON: Geez.

DOLAN: It was really kind of like a blast to the past. It wasn't until you actually like, started. I mean the ironic thing was the non-fraternization post meant you couldn't go anywhere out to the Cubans, but the few times you kind of were allowed to when I'd go in their living quarters, just kind of like be in their kitchen with them; if you could visit someone I guess you could, but it's like some of them had showers where it was like a garden hose hanging out of the wall. I mean they had four or five people living in a room together. I mean it's just like. The standard of living was kind of shocking at one point. The fact 00:57:00that we got down there, we were kind of told, like the Cuban nationals were kept in the city portion of Havana and another portion of Havana was kind of like the tourist and for the Europeans who were visiting. So they always had the pretty parts of Havana where travelers could come visit and then they had the real parts. And they even had two different currencies. They had the Cuban peso which was about the value of dirt and they had the Cuban CUP, which was the same equivalent of a euro. So that was like a drastic change in the value of the currency. So a lot of times Cuban nationals were trying to make a living for themselves so there was frauds of people making, I mean just people trying to make a buck. You really can't blame them because they don't have much to work with. It was just sad to see how little advancement they could actually make on their own. I mean food was rationed out to them. Just didn't seem like they had 00:58:00much free will.

SORENSON: Which part of town did you like best, the touristy part or the poorer part with the Cuban nationals?

DOLAN: I always had more fun in the poorer parts because they could dance and they drank a lot of rum and they just had a lot of fun. Some of them. But they were probably the friendliest people I've ever met in my life though. And that's kind of one of the things like where's that fine line between are they trying to [inaudible] or are they trying to get information from me? And like I said, a lot of Cubans would be kind of good to relate to. They would be employed by the embassy so they had the background check and they would be the ones who would invite us over for these Cuban holidays and we were kind of able to partake of a few of them. But they absolutely loved baseball. I remember sitting in baseball stadiums looking at the Cuban prospects out there playing and guys would just love--it was like Hernandez, I mean playing for the Mets, who was a Cuban 00:59:00[inaudible] played for them. So these guys would just love to talk about stuff. I mean they were just friendly, just the friendliest people you could ever imagine. The other thing was they were just so resourceful. They could make so much out of nothing. That was the one I just couldn't believe. There were times when there would be something broken to an extent where I figured I'd just throw it away and get something new and they would just finagle something and make everything work again. They were just very, very resourceful and just happy people. They definitely made the best of what they had, that's for sure.

SORENSON: Were you anywhere near Guantanamo Bay?

DOLAN: No. Havana is actually the most, one of the most northern parts of the island and Guantanamo is one of the most southern parts of the island. So quite a significant location away. And there was very, very little interaction between our embassy and that base. They would send, I would think, like a small number, like two or three, diplomats a year or twice a year on a specific mission. There 01:00:00was some communication they needed to do back and forth, but interaction goes to bases very, very slim to none, that's for sure.

SORENSON: Were there any American diplomats that were down there when you were there, or any visitors like American government officials that you were aware of?

DOLAN: Not that I was aware of. That was the one big problem was visas. Coming in and out of the country was, it was very rare for anybody to actually come in. I think there was one time when there was an investigation, which you're supposed to have on a regular basis, however Cuba couldn't have it just because of the visa process. But when they came through they just couldn't. I guess the higher command of the embassy, when they came through, they just really couldn't comprehend how high we were operating at with such little supplies. I mean one 01:01:00of the most common things the Cuban government would do would be. I mean all your goods would come shipped in in these big crates with these boats and the Cuban government would just not approve the release of these goods. So you'd have families without furniture or even like office supplies would be coming in the building. Sometimes they'd just kind of trying to play that mind game with you, you know? And there was food shipments you were supposed to be getting that they'd hold onto or they'd disappear and it always seemed like the Cubans had, the government, I should say, had a hand in either us, to prevent us from doing our job properly.

And one of the things, I think it was in 2006ish, they sent in like small pieces of these electronical billboards through diplomatic pouches, basically a mailbag that every country has a right to send to and from its diplomatic posts without 01:02:00interference of any other country. So a lot of times these outreach programs for the Cuban nationals was these diplomatic pouches that were not really getting used, but they being used as a method to like bring in kites with pro change ideas or you know, small transistor radios which would pick up signals out of Miami which would, because a lot of times the Cubans wouldn't have access to television or radio or even a newspaper that wasn't provided directly from the Cuban government. So they were being very filtered, information that the government wanted them to know. Part of the reason why whenever you [inaudible] and they seemed so eager to get information from you, it was because they didn't have access to information. Like sports scores or things that went on in the States, things that went on in the world. So one of the secret products they were doing was they sent all these small parts through these diplomatic pouches and as a seven-story building on the top floor they basically constructed an electronical sign in all these windows. And we were on a part of the island 01:03:00where we were right next to the water down a main strip so you could actually see our building at night from a very, very long distance. So what they started doing was, it took them I think a year or so or maybe even longer than that to get the sign put up, but once they did they would just basically broadcast real news across this electronical sign. In the first phase trying to explain the first successful operation.

DOLAN: All right. So, they put the sign and they started broadcasting world news on it and ironically enough there was this big part right in front, like almost a concrete parking lot I guess you could call it, in front of our embassy or our building which was commonly used by Fidel Castro or, you know, diplomatic officials when they were giving speeches because it was a big large open area. And a lot of them he was using our building as a backdrop. So during, I forgot what speech it was, but I remember talking to a Marine who was in the post when 01:04:00it occurred, but they turned on the sign when Castro was giving his speech to kind of like disrupt what was going on, you know?

SORENSON: [laughs]

DOLAN: And I guess in his speech he turned around and he says, "Look at those dirty cockroaches, they turned on their sign." You know. And he said within the week that parking lot that he once used all the time for these speeches or whatever, they built a memorial for, I forget what it was but there was like 173 flag poles. But there was these two tall flags that were put up and they had these massive garrison-size black flags with one star on it and they represented however many Cubans died in a horrific plane wreck one year or something like that or how many dissidents that the Americans were killing or whatever. But it was a memorial basically, like a structure they built, but the flag was so big and so high that it basically blocked out the view of our building from a long 01:05:00distance away. And they would just flood these billboards, our billboard and these flags with these big bright lights at night to try to blur out the electronical sign.

SORENSON: Oh, I see. Oh my gosh, wow.

DOLAN: So that was kind of the counteract to our sign, but it was interesting.

SORENSON: How often did you get to, I should ask, how long were you in Havana, Cuba?

DOLAN: I was there for I think fourteen months. And my tour was only supposed to be twelve. And like I said, I got there four months late so I actually stayed an extra, I mean, on the time frame I was there an actual five or six months. But like I said, they would just play the visa game with us all the time and they wouldn't allow Marines to come in and wouldn't allow Marines to leave. Because what happened was if I remember correctly the American Embassy, or the intra section that we were working with was allowed fifty diplomats to work in the 01:06:00building and that was diplomats, but then we were working security and so we didn't have the same diplomatic rights as the rest of the building would. So when we would get a visa--there was ten Marines so technically we had sixty people in Cuba and those ten Marines who only had one entry visa. So we could only come and leave. We couldn't travel back and forth. Unlike the Cubans in DC, I guess. They had like a shorter visa of only six months and their personnel security were included with the diplomats overseas. There was some convoluted, you know, political ramification of why they didn't want us to come and go.

SORENSON: Oh, I see.

DOLAN: So I actually, when the Marines would come and go and they would send these diplomatic notes, you know, saying why is this diplomat authorized to leave and come back and that kind of stuff. I actually got selected to go to the G-8 summit in 2007 and when I was coming back from that they wouldn't let me 01:07:00back in the country. They were saying, "He's already left the country, his visa is he can't return." He's like, "No, send him away." I was like, "Where am I going to go?" I was stuck in the airport. That was kind of the hard part was once they realized that our visas were that way, that when a Marine arrived he was basically there for pretty much his whole entire twelve months. So that was kind of a little bit stressful on them. But I mean it was just one of those political games that we kind of got thrown in the middle of.

SORENSON: So you generally weren't allowed to take leave and go back home in the middle of it?

DOLAN: No.

SORENSON: I got you.

DOLAN: See, for twelve months or fifteen, however long you were there, you were stuck there and you were restricted to twenty-five miles of the city.

SORENSON: So I'm sure you got to know the city pretty well.

DOLAN: Best I could.

SORENSON: [laughs] Now, you said you went to the G-8 summit. Where was that and what did you do there?

DOLAN: That was in Bandemunde, Germany. It's one of the most northern parts of 01:08:00Germany. And I was, they had a small Marine detail that was supposed to go, like five Marines, and you're supposed to pretty much do the same job we were doing in the embassy but like on a traveling scale. I mean the president was going to go to the G-8 for about a week or two and then we were supposed to make sure that all the communications setup and all the personnel who had arrived before, for preparation, and would tear everything down afterward were basically doing the proper thing. Make sure nobody was coming and going when we were supposed to be there and making sure the proper equipment was there. But the problem is that was about three weeks. I mean I was down in Cuba and I got called up to be the non-commissioned officer in charge of that small unit and they called like four other Marines from Africa and I just couldn't remember. I was like why did they 01:09:00pick Marines so far from Germany to actually serve it? But we actually showed up and they were actually undermanned because at that time that G-8 summit was the most protested G8 summit in G-8 history. And I just remember our job really got skewed a lot. We were basically supposed to work personnel security like in the building and we actually got fapped out to work crowd control where they would actually block off the city in different sectors and they would have undercover German police officers or even military agents and someone's out there with, they'd have it all zoned off and they had hippies protesting, you know, like, Nazis protesting. A lot of times the altercations were between these two groups amongst themselves and not really focused on what was going on in the G-8 summit.

I remember one time I was just walking around doing crowd control and you basically had on a cell phone we'd verbalize, you know, this area or that man in 01:10:00this section is escalating to orange to red. You know, it's like a high threat. I just remember once I saw people throwing bricks at each other and I was like this zone just went to red. And within seconds [snaps] there was this big firetruck riot control vehicle up there and they were hosing water and CS gas [a type of tear gas] on all these people and I was like I'm getting the hell out of here because I just called this cavalry, I'm about to get hit by it.

SORENSON: Oh, man.

DOLAN: So that was a pretty cool experience as far as working with different, because as a representative I mean I was probably, what, like twenty-three, twenty-two, and I was sitting in all these meetings of these heads of security for all these other different agencies who were planning the mission of the G-8 summit and my responsibility was to make sure that, you know, and it was just an ironic situation for me to be in, but it was pretty impressive. I mean I had a really good time. It was a pretty honorable thing to do, like memorable too.

SORENSON: Oh, definitely. Did you get close to any of the diplomats who were there?

DOLAN: I met President Bush.

SORENSON: Oh, you did?

DOLAN: Yeah.

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: So our Marine detail, he makes a special, like a run to come out and meet all of us. We all go on the tarmac next to Air Force One, came out and shook all our hands and thanked us.

SORENSON: Oh, wow.

DOLAN: And I was kind of like, I got into a little bit of trouble doing that because, well, these, they call them like, these special trips that they allow these Marines like us to go on, I mean they do the same thing for the vice president or the secretary of state with their security details. And that tradition is when you meet one of these high officials you give them a coin from your country that you're coming from, just a token basically, and there was two Marines from Cuba who had already met President Bush in different sessions or different visitations he was going around and they all gave him like, a coin from Havana, Cuba, so I figured I'd better up the ante a little bit and I was going to give him a T-shirt from Cuba. And I shoved it in the belt of my suit 01:12:00jacket so when he went to shake all our hands and I shook his hand, he's like, "Thank you for serving" and I was like, "Yes, President, and on the behalf of the Marines in Havana, Cuba, I bring you this T-shirt" and I reached in my jacket and I pulled out this T-shirt and I gave it to him. He said thanks and he threw it to his, I guess, his assistant, but as soon as the president walked off a Secret Service guy walked up to me and he's like, "Did you tell anybody you were going to pull that shirt out of your jacket?" [laughs] I was like, "No." He was like, "Good, don't do that. We don't like people pulling shit out of their jacket. You're liable to get your head blown off." I was like, all right.

SORENSON: Man.

DOLAN: But if you ever see President Bush running around with a Havana T-shirt on I gave it to him.

SORENSON: Awesome. How did the president strike you when you met him?

DOLAN: Oh, friendly and real appreciative of our service. Like I said, it was just a brief handshake and he thanked us for our service and he took a photo 01:13:00with us and he was on his way.

SORENSON: I see. How was his handshake? [laughs] Solid?

DOLAN: Yeah. He makes a lot of them, I guess.

SORENSON: Yes, definitely. So after you got done with your; actually were you a sergeant at the time of this G20 [sic] meeting?

DOLAN: Yeah, I picked up sergeant when I was in, I want to say, I think it was in Cuba. I don't remember. Maybe I was in Holland. I have to check my promotion warrant.

SORENSON: So you left Havana, Cuba. I should ask under what circumstances did you leave Havana, Cuba? Were you done with your term in the Marine Corps?

DOLAN: When I left Cuba I was actually still on active duty. I was still supposed to serve one more post. And I had to extend my contract another year when I originally started the Marine security guard program in order to give me 01:14:00three full years to do three full posts. And with the visa problems coming into Cuba and the visa problems leaving Cuba my last post would have only been like five months which would have really screwed up the rotation for all the other embassies who were trying to get new Marines coming and going. So they actually extended my contract by another six months to make sure I did the full year tour of my last embassy. And like I said, when I came back from the G-8 summit I ended up taking a position of the assistant to the detachment commander because every embassy has a staff NCO who's in charge and they have a senior, you know, sergeant or staff sergeant to kind of assist them. So I took that role when I was in Cuba and my senior command was kind of impressed with what I was doing down there so they were going to send me to an embassy in Astana, Kazakhstan, because they were just moving from Almaty to Astana and there was a transition 01:15:00issue so they wanted me to be the assistant to the detachment commander there. Which for me, I mean I spent all that time in Cuba, I was just kind of getting burned out. So I really wasn't ambitious at all to go to Kazakhstan. I wasn't looking forward to it. And talking to the Marines who were already there, what they were going through, I mean I would definitely do my job if I had to go there, but I just wasn't eager. So kind of like a blessing in disguise, I actually had to meet with the Kazakh ambassador in Cuba and his question to me was, "Why do you want to go there?" [laughs] I was like, "I'm being told to go." He couldn't believe when I was there. And I remember this guy was an ambassador for his country in Cuba and I was sitting in his kitchen, just like in his kitchen with him, going over the paper to get a visa to go to his country. It wasn't quite the same process that you'd go to get a visa to go to the United States. It was just drastically different from what I was experiencing. And I was like, "Not too many people try to go to Kazakhstan, I take it." [laughs] So, 01:16:00I mean like I said, like a blessing in disguise, my replacement wasn't coming into Cuba so I actually got like held back a lot longer than I was supposed to and actually out of necessity they had to replace my slot in Kazakhstan. So I was basically kind of, had nowhere to go. And that was actually my last few months in Cuba. So once my time was finally up and my replacement was coming in they just said, "We've got to send you somewhere, Dolan" and so they just gave me a list of embassies out there that had an opening and one of them was Helsinki, Finland and I called over there and they said, I mean it was a nice post and I figured that would be a nice one for my last tour so I just decided to go to Helsinki. Ended up serving twelve months there.

SORENSON: How was Finland? Anything stand out to you about that place?

DOLAN: Again, they were another real friendly country as far as the United 01:17:00States. I mean, the customs there really weren't too unfamiliar here. They're very Nordic. I mean as far as politically they had a lot more political parties and a little more involvement with the United States at the time. There really wasn't much of a hostility or a like a threat as far as the atmosphere when I arrived.

SORENSON: Were you limited at that embassy or could you go anywhere that you wanted really?

DOLAN: We had free rein to do pretty much whatever we wanted. I mean there was still a lot of responsibility. You couldn't cause crimes, but we definitely had, I definitely had the freedom that I was looking for after I left Cuba. So it was nice to kind of let my hair down and enjoy myself. Of all of my posts that would probably be the one embassy I went to that I got the most involved with the individuals outside of the embassy. Just because a lot of times, I mean it's not the fault of anyone, but a lot of people overseas, they kind of clutch to the 01:18:00Americans or the American culture that is over there when people are there and embrace it. But when I was in Finland I actually went out and I started playing in a city rugby team and I was going out to these events on behalf of the Marine Corps but I was actually surrounded by Finns and I got to do Finnish, I was representing, what was it? On one occasion I went out for like women's day and they had all these ambassadors of women [inaudible] chief of mission in the embassy was a woman and the president at the time in Finland was a woman as well so women's day was kind of a big deal. And they would bring all these prominent female figures in Finland to these big functions and I was kind of like honorary guest you could say. Just meeting people outside that and getting involved in clubs and groups in Finland as a result of that. I mean volunteering inside the 01:19:00city. I mean going out and actually becoming a part of, you know, people in that culture. It was the first time I actually did it and it was actually more rewarding to better understand the relationship and the views of the United States from their point of view than yeah. It just was my first time looking at us from their point of view. It was kind of interesting.

SORENSON: The fact that you got so involved in Finland, was that something that you had the desire to do in Cuba but you just were not at all able to do that?

DOLAN: Yeah. I mean that was kind of the hard thing was our mission down in Cuba was pretty much try to promote change and promote an environment where you could help these people out, you know. But then again, the fact that we can't 01:20:00fraternize with them or spend time with them, it's kind of like you're taking away that aspect of what we're supposed to be really doing down here, you know? And like I said, a lot of times I'd be going out with these guys, it was a very structured controlled environment we'd be going out with. So just that ability to go out and interact, I guess I really didn't appreciate it until after I left Cuba. I just wish I would have done it a lot earlier and a lot more often.

SORENSON: So when your time in Finland was about to come to an end you came back to the United States to separate from the Marine Corps at that point?

DOLAN: Yes.

SORENSON: What year was that?

DOLAN: I separated, I returned to the States in December of 2009. I think I separated in January of '09. I had like a six-week window when I was in between, like a duty in civilian life.

SORENSON: Oh, OK. And when you were discharged from the Marine Corps you were a sergeant?

DOLAN: Yes. I was actually selected for staff sergeant.

SORENSON: Oh, you were?

DOLAN: So yeah, I would have been promoted in April when my number got pulled up, but I got out in January. So I was Staff Select. I thought about reenlisting for six more months just so you could see that rocker, but I was like no, I decided to get out as a sergeant.

SORENSON: Wow, now if you would have reenlisted and since embassy security was a B billet would you have been able to reenlist and continue to do embassy duty?

DOLAN: No, I would have gone back to my original MOS as a radar technician. Or I could have switched, but like I said, that's the reason why I worked that excuse to get out of radar tech.

SORENSON: It didn't sound that appealing going back to that.

DOLAN: Yeah. Especially being out of your profession for three and a half years and going in as a senior sergeant or even as a new staff NCO, I mean my big problem was, I mean I didn't think the Marine Corps would benefit from me being 01:22:00in anymore. Because I mean, a lot of my embassy experiences were amongst corporals and sergeants and you weren't really leading Marines any more or less monitoring each other. You know, and it's like I didn't go through the corporal's course, I didn't go through the sergeant course, I wasn't in charge of a platoon of forty-five Marines. You know, I didn't have that like instant ways of winning of a sergeant when you see it in all these units. And especially, like I said, in four months I would have been a staff sergeant. It's like I don't have any staff sergeant, well, I had some as far as paper work styles, but I mean knowing your orders or knowing the proper regulations of just the Marine Corps or even like my job proficiency. I couldn't walk to a position as staff NCO and tell other radar techs how to do their job when I haven't done my job in three and a half years. So, that was kinda like, at that time in my life it's like I didn't want to go back to being, I don't think I would have done the Marine Corps much good if I had stayed in anymore. You know, it would 01:23:00have been pretty tough so I decided to get out.

SORENSON: So was that the major factor that led you to get out of the Marine Corps there?

DOLAN: Also, I was ready to get out. I was going to school online. I was planning on it for a while, but that was also a factor of it. I mean, there's a lot of opportunities that came up when I was working overseas in the embassy program as far as working for the State Department or any other government agency and it was just kind of like a time where you take advantage of those opportunities and connections you made in order to come on and get back out.

SORENSON: Have you ever considered working for the State Department or anything like that?

DOLAN: Yeah, that's actually one of the career options I'm thinking about still now as a student. I mean, it's something that's always interested me and I liked it and that was a position I really enjoyed. It was always kind of back in my mind of--I mean to go back into it. I'm actually getting a certificate right now to my degree in criminal justice just so if I do choose to go back into it I'll 01:24:00be a little more competitive or have some education in that field.

SORENSON: What did it feel like to be separated from the Marine Corps and back in the civilian world?

DOLAN: It was like night and day. I didn't know what to do with myself. It was funny because every day you're a Marine you're like I just wish I could be a civilian again and once you're a civilian it's like wow, being a Marine was so great. [laughs] You know? I mean it's that transition. I used to wake up every day knowing what I had to do, I mean how to get ready, where to go, how to do it. I knew how I was going to get promoted, I knew how I was going to get fed, I knew where I was going to live, I knew when I was going to get paid, I knew everything that was going to happen before me. I knew there was a structure to it and I knew who my boss was, I knew who I was in charge of, I knew my responsibilities, knew the responsibilities, I mean I knew a lot. When you come to the civilian world it's kind of like well, there's so much you've got to, you know? It's just like that structure kind of isn't there anymore. So you had to 01:25:00find a place to live, you had to find a way to support yourself, you had to find a way to, I mean it's things that people do every single day of their lives, but it wasn't anything I ever had to worry about since I was, ever I guess since I went in right after I was eighteen. So it was kind of a little bit of a transition. I mean, it's obviously what I wanted, but it was definitely a reality check once it actually occurred.

SORENSON: What are you planning on doing right now in the future? What are you studying at UW here?

DOLAN: I'm studying zoology and I really want to use it to really get into physical therapy right now. It's kind of one thing that I always kind of felt guilty about was serving during this time of war, my military experience has been drastically different than the majority of any Marine out there. And I always kind of feel bad where it's like maybe they sacrificed more and they've done more than I have. And seeing these guys come back, a lot of times they're suffering these physical injuries or life altering as far as losing limbs and 01:26:00losing the ability to function as it was when they went in. So I kind of would like ideally to maybe work with returning veterans you know, and kind of to adapt to a new lifestyle. And kind of like not getting them entirely where it's like, I don't know, they're no longer the same person but they can still do the same things, you know? It's just encouraging them to make like just a life adjustment and just proceeding on and not letting some of the past determine their future. I think it's kind of one of those professions that would kind of allow you to do that, you know?

SORENSON: I see. Are there any medals or awards that you received that you're particularly proud of?

DOLAN: Not the ordinary. Nothing out of the ordinary.

SORENSON: Did you get a good conduct medal or?

DOLAN: Yeah, I got my conduct medal. It's pretty much just for staying out of trouble. And I got my global war on terrorism for serving [inaudible] and overseas service medal and then Marine security guard medal for doing my three years. I mean, I really, I guess, I don't know, I guess the one thing that could have been taken away from me was my rank of corporal. Yeah, when I was working in Okinawa and I was at that lance corporal in charge of three other lances and my gunny was in charge of me was also the same gunny I had when I was in the schoolhouse and twice in the schoolhouse he tried to kick me out for failing exams and stuff like that.

SORENSON: Geez.

DOLAN: But the exams I was failing under his supervision there's just such a small tease factor of why I was failing. And every time I'd fail I'd have to go 01:28:00up to like a board where they'd reevaluate my standard of education, where I was in the class, and every time I'd go to the board they'd be like, "You're fine, you understand the equipment, why do you think you're going to fail?" So, ironically enough, the same instructor ended up leaving and I went to his same unit and he didn't like my attitude, he didn't like the way I did things, but like I said I was a lance corporal pretty much running three other lances on how to operate this equipment and he said to me to my face, he's like, "You'll never see corporal under my command." I'm sure I was a hotheaded cocky lance, probably had an attitude and there was times where we butted heads and maybe leadership styles and maybe even my own personal activity, set of work, but he was determined that I would never see corporal. And I remember he went to pick up gunny, he went to gunny's course, and gunny's course is eight weeks long and at the end of these eight weeks we did our mock training when we went up north with our equipment. And I was basically in charge of setting up all the equipment, 01:29:00packing it all up, unpacking it, shooting the asmit.

And we had our commander come down and I was the one showing him what our equipment did and our chief warrant officer and even our captain were impressed by my actions, saying I was knowledgeable, I was professional, I did everything we were supposed to be doing properly in a situation where I've never been in. It was even kind of around the same time frame where, like I said, we had those Japanese inspectors to come in and make sure our equipment wasn't damaging the radar collections of their national airport so they always wanted to check up on us. And in that same round when we came back our gear's all packed up and then these officials are coming in from Japan and our chief warrant officer called me up at midnight one day and he's like, "We need this equipment up tomorrow morning by eight o'clock. I know you're not supposed to be doing it, but it needs to be done." So there was a lance with three guys with me and two other 01:30:00radio operators, we went out there, we did like a ten-man job that takes like five hours, did it all in four, in the dark with strobe lights to get this shit working and ready for them. So I mean there was like a time period where I was doing a lot more than I really needed to be doing and this was when the gunny was up north at a studies course and my CO was recognizing all this kind of stuff and I got the letter of recommendation. In that letter of recommendation I picked up corporal.

That was my, how should I say that? My [inaudible] and I qualified for it. Just happened to be that same month and my CO from my previous actions, in my NCO book he wrote like, "We need to have more NCOs like you who can lead Marines." He shook my hand, he made it real personal in my promotion warrant and all that. That was one of my promotions where I felt most proud about. And when my gunny came back from gunny's course he was livid. He's like, "I non-recced you. You 01:31:00couldn't have picked up corporal when I said you couldn't. I can't fucking believe that." He's like bullshit. I remember sitting there, him and one by one in that office he's chewing my ass and I just said, I was like, "Gunny, if you have a problem with it talk to the colonel." I put my promotion warrant on his desk and I just walked out. And he was pissed. So that was the one thing I was probably, under his command had to earn the most. But I earned it and I deserved it so that was the one thing I think I liked the most was telling that gunny to go fuck himself, like I'm a corporal. My corporal rating.

SORENSON: Excellent.

DOLAN: Yeah.

SORENSON: Have you joined any organizations, veterans' organizations, since you've been out? VFW, Legion, anything?

DOLAN: I'm not eligible for the VFW and I haven't joined the American Legion, but I would like to in the future. But the only veterans' organization that really stood out for me was the one on campus of UW Madison. Like I said, that transition of coming back, the whole lifestyle change, it was kind of nice to 01:32:00have someone, I mean taking notes in large lecture hall was completely different from whatever I experienced. Learning how to write and take notes was completely different. Just sitting amongst kids who had opinions that was only from their high school experiences and it was such a drastic environment from what I was so used to. Marines obviously have a hardhead thought of what's right or wrong and some of these opinions of liberal thoughts of these college campuses I didn't really agree with. So when I came onto campus I first went to the vets' organization. It was kind of like a little sanctuary that I had and I just spent more time there than I thought I could. It really helped me readjust back to the campus lifestyle. I think it's a significant reason why I'm as successful as I am now, just because I kind of used all that structure, that networking ability to meet others who have similar experiences and similar conflicts and similar 01:33:00life experiences. Because sometimes you feel like, like now I know why I'm going to school as opposed to I never wanted to in the past. I think a lot of other veterans know why they're going to school now and have objectives. They have careers they're trying to pursue as opposed to these, some guys are just going to do four years and get a degree in the easiest degree possible and try to find a job. You know? So this way I can kind of respect and appreciate more, but these veterans' clubs I guess seem like they have more direction. you know? The kind of direction I'm looking for.

SORENSON: Do you feel that University of Wisconsin -- Madison is a relatively easy transition for veterans? Have you noticed any things that stand out about the university that need to be addressed to meet veterans' needs on campus?

DOLAN: [pause] I mean as far as my transition I think it went relatively 01:34:00smoothly. I mean, there was always someone who I could go and talk to. Having gone back to the dean of students' office was helpful and having this veterans' office is nice and having [inaudible] in the administration office who helps you do paper work of the GI Bill and everything was real beneficial. And I think the health services units here, you know, try to promote their ability to help anybody, you know, with stressful situations or emotions they're going through. And I think having the county service officer come in here for veterans on a weekly basis was you know, to answer some questions, you know, was a good thing. And having a VA hospital within a block of the campus hospital. So I think the help to get the transition is available and whether or not people take advantage 01:35:00of it might be different. Like I said, I haven't been to any other school or campus and I've only done one transition and as hard as I thought it was I think I still adjusted, you know, relatively quickly, you know, relatively comfortably, you know.

SORENSON: So it looks.

[Interview Ends]