Oral History Interview with Richard I. Smith

[Interview Begins]

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so we just talk and--and, uh, we'll start the interview. My name is Tom Blumenberg, and today is August 10, 2017. And I am here with Richard I. Smith in Hayward, Wisconsin. I--I met, uh, Richard some time ago and I actually interviewed his sister, Bertha, just last week. So, that's how I get Richard's name and here we are in Hayward. So, welcome Richard. Uh, I will just say that I am not associated with any organization. I am doing this as a private person, um, out of interest, uh, for the veterans that are in this area. So, welcome. Uh, tell me, uh, Richard, where and when were you born?

SMITH: Uh, [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX].

BLUMENBERG: [XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX]?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, okay. And, uh, tell me about your parents.

SMITH: Well, my old man was a trapper.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay.

SMITH: And mother was a--took care of kids. That's all she did.

BLUMENBERG: That's prob-- that was probably a--a handful. I guess you had quite a few, uh--

SMITH: [inaudible] you had quite a few, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: So, your dad was a trapper. And what was his first name?

SMITH: Fred.

BLUMENBERG: Fred. And your mom was--what was her--what was her name?

SMITH: Madge.

BLUMENBERG: Madge. And her last name was Heenan?

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, okay. I remember Bertha tellin' me that. Okay. So, your dad was the trapper and then your mom. And then how many kids were there in your family?

SMITH: Nine, I think.

BLUMENBERG: Nine. So, you had a big family.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: That kept everybody busy.

SMITH: Pardon?

BLUMENBERG: That kept everybody busy.

SMITH: Yeah. Um, I think we had eleven but two died so that--

BLUMENBERG: Oh.

SMITH: Uh--

BLUMENBERG: They died when they were young.

SMITH: Yeah, real young.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, okay. And do you, um, recall the names of--of your--your--your brother?

SMITH: My brother was Leonard.

BLUMENBERG: Leonard, okay. And then your, uh--you had eight sisters?

SMITH: Yeah. You mean you want all the names of 'em?

BLUMENBERG: If you--if you got it, yeah.

SMITH: Well, there's Frida [??] who died.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, Frida.

SMITH: And, uh, Jeanette [??] died. And, uh, Marge [??] is still living. Sandy [??] is still living and Lorraine's [??] still living and Bertha and Beatrice 00:03:00[??]. Those are the ones that are still living.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, wow. So, that's quite a group.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, when you were in Round Lake, uh, did--did you go to school? I--I remember there was a school in Round--

SMITH: Yeah, there was a--an old one-room schoolhouse, uh, up by, uh, Four Corners up there. And, uh, uh, [clicking noise] [inaudible] Road.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay.

SMITH: Yeah, up the end of [inaudible] Road was an old schoolhouse around the corner. And--

BLUMENBERG: I think--

SMITH: --foundation is still there.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, it is?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: I--I remember seeing a road sign that said "Round Lake School Road".

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: But I never saw the school, so.

SMITH: Oh, no, that--that's been--

BLUMENBERG: That's long gone, huh?

SMITH: Long gone, long gone.

BLUMENBERG: Now, Bertha said she went to school here--

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: --in the Haywards.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: What do they call that place? The Hayward Indian School or--?

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And did you go there?

SMITH: Pardon?

BLUMENBERG: Did you go to school there too?

SMITH: No, I didn't.

BLUMENBERG: No, it was just--okay. So, you went to Round Lake and then y-- um, can you tell me about your schooling there? You were there how long?

SMITH: Well, that--that school I went to the--uh, let's see. I think nineteen thirty-- '39--'38, we, uh--they--we transferred to--they built a new school up there, you know, on the corner of B and K [??]--

BLUMENBERG: Oh, B and E.

SMITH: You had K--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, okay. Kin-- that Kinnamon School.

SMITH: That--that old Kinnamon School.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, they just remodeled that school.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: It's beautiful.

SMITH: That--that's--that's where we transferred 'cause--

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: --they built a new school. And then we--it was 1939 or somethin' like that, '38 or '39, and [clears throat] I was there for eight years. No, not eight years, four.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, at Kinnamon.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. So, you graduated from there and that was--

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: --was that eighth grade or high school?

SMITH: That was a grade school there.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And then after grade school what happened?

SMITH: Yeah, I went to the Indian School in South Dakota.

BLUMENBERG: So, you went to Flandreau?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And that would've been 1939, and you were there--

SMITH: Nineteen--1940 is when I went to Flandreau.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, '40?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And you stayed there and then what? Did you graduate from Flandreau?

SMITH: No, I had one more year and I was in the--the war was on. I was seventeen and then I went into the Navy.

BLUMENBERG: So, the war--oh, so, 1943. Yeah, the war was on.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And you enlisted in the Navy.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. And--and they--even though you were seventeen, they took you?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Y-- I guess you had to be over sixteen. Was that right?

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. And how did you choose the Navy?

SMITH: Pardon?

BLUMENBERG: How--how was it that you chose the Navy?

SMITH: I was a walkin' down, uh, Chippewa Falls. Uh, I was out of high school wo-- would get lookin' for a job then.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: I was walkin' down the street and it says, "Join the Navy and see the world."

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Well, that's what happened.

BLUMENBERG: You saw a poster that said, "Join the--"

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And you did.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. Where did you--where did you sign up? Where did you enlist?

SMITH: Chippewa Falls.

BLUMENBERG: Chippewa Falls, okay.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: So, you signed up there. And--and then--

SMITH: Yeah, went to Great Lakes.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, you went to Great Lakes down in Illinois--

SMITH: Right.

BLUMENBERG: --for your basic training.

SMITH: Basic training.

BLUMENBERG: And then that would've been nineteen--

SMITH: Forty-three.

BLUMENBERG: Forty-three. And after basics, where did you go? [recording device gets hit]

SMITH: Went to, uh, California.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Then, uh, caught a ship there. And that was, uh, our beginning of our cruise.

BLUMENBERG: Your cruise, yeah.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: What--what, um, Navy base were you on in California?

SMITH: What ship?

BLUMENBERG: Uh, what Navy base?

SMITH: Uh, we were in a couple there. Shoemaker and, uh, uh--that was the--what they'd call OGU, Outgoing Unit.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: So we h-- there were--they'd put you in a--a little camp and then they--you find out where you're going.

BLUMENBERG: And then you got ready and away you went.

SMITH: Yeah, they'd put you on to--

BLUMENBERG: So, you got on to--

SMITH: --whatever ship was, uh--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: And [inaudible] which one.

BLUMENBERG: It was busy traffic going back and forth.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, what ship did you end up on?

SMITH: Uh, the LST [Landing Ship Tank]-4--477.

BLUMENBERG: 477 LST. Do they have a--another name too?

SMITH: Landing Ship Tank.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. The LST, Landing Ship Tank. I don't know. Sometimes they have, uh, admirals name or something.

SMITH: Well, uh, you probably--ever see a war movie?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, sure.

SMITH: And the--where the bow doors open?

BLUMENBERG: Uh-huh.

SMITH: And the tanks come down and--

BLUMENBERG: And then out on to the beach.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Out on a beach.

BLUMENBERG: And that's what you were on.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And what was your job?

SMITH: I worked in the, uh, mess hall there for a while. Then, uh, other times I was a gunner's mate.

BLUMENBERG: On board the ship.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. Okay. And when you left California [recording device gets hit]--oops. I'm sorry. I hit this twice now. Uh, when you left California, where did you ship out to? You were on cruise. You went to--

SMITH: Uh, New Guinea.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, you went to New Guinea.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. And what can you tell me about that? How long did it take to 00:10:00get there?

SMITH: Well, two [laughs]--when, uh, our ship was at a top speed of ten knots an hour.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, oh, so it was a long--it was a long cruise.

SMITH: Long cruise, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: How did you handle that?

SMITH: I can't remember. That--that was a long time ago.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: We, uh--then we hit the--went back to Ha-- uh, Hawaii. We, uh, loaded up with, uh, supplies and, uh, about four hundred and some Marines. And we went to, uh, uh, Tarawa. You ever hear of Tarawa?

BLUMENBERG: Yes, I did, yep.

SMITH: Yeah. We got there on D-Day plus one--

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: One day after. And, uh, could still see the bodies of the Marines laying 00:11:00there in the--on the beach, you know. And they didn't take 'em up yet, you know. It was a sad thing to see.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, I can imagine. You're comin' outta Round Lake and then Chippewa Falls and then go to see somethin' like that.

SMITH: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, that was--then we, uh, went back to Hawaii again and went up to the Gilbert Islands and made an invasion there on Makin. Uh, that was a--you probably never heard of that island, Makin?

BLUMENBERG: I never did. I've heard of the Gilbert Islands, but--

SMITH: Yeah, well that was--

BLUMENBERG: How do you spell that? M-A--

SMITH: Macon, M-A-K-I-N.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: I, uh, uh--

BLUMENBERG: So, you went Tarawa, Hawaii, and then the Makin?

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, and we, uh, made an invasion there. And, uh, went back to Hawaii, loaded up again, and went to, uh, Guam. We--well, we had other--some other stops too. Uh, uh, the Gilbert Islands there. Um, uh, let's see. Gilbert Islands, there's--and the Marietas Islands too we went.

BLUMENBERG: You were all over the Pacific.

SMITH: Yeah, um, then, uh, Guam. We made D-Day there and dropped the Marines off 00:13:00there. Then we, uh--course on our way in, we got hit by a suicide plane up there by Iwo Ji-- after we got to Guam, we went to Iwo Jima. And, uh, we had, uh, four hundred and some Marines aboard and we left 'em off there. They went ashore to, uh, battle, you know.

BLUMENBERG: At Iwo Jima?

SMITH: Yeah. And before we got in there, we got--a suicide plane come and hit us and, uh, ou-- I wa-- I ran topside to--I heard an explosion and I went topside and my gun was all--that's where he hit them. Boy, I had a close call there.

BLUMENBERG: For sure. So, you were below deck when it hit.

SMITH: Yeah. [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: And you came up--

SMITH: Good thing I wasn't a little quicker, uh.

BLUMENBERG: Ex-- exactly. [laughs] Wow.

SMITH: So we, uh--still, we went in to let the tanks and the Marines off. And stayed around, uh, uh--I'm tryin' to think now. Oh, yeah. We went back to Pearl Harbor. We got, uh, patched up, you know. And they have a dry docks there for ships that need repair. And, uh, then we went to San Francisco. Uh, then peace was declared.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: Then, uh, all the old-timers, guys with, uh, a lotta time on the--old 00:15:00guys and a lot of those guys--or seventeen, eighteen-year-old, which they call the skulvin [??] crew. And we went back out to Korea. And we was at Korea for a while. Then we, uh, went over to Japan.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: And the [inaudible] Missouri. You ever hear of--you see--oh, what a ship that was--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: --compared to what--what I was on.

BLUMENBERG: Right.

SMITH: You know, and we went by there and wow. I said, "That was a--quite a difference in, uh, Navy, you know." Uh--

BLUMENBERG: Well, can I back you up a second? And when that--when that, uh, suicide plane came in and hit your ship, your--your gun station was damaged, but 00:16:00what else happened on board there?

SMITH: Oh, yeah. We, uh--[clears throat] couple days later, we had a, uh--whatcha call 'em. Uh, I mean the next day, we had services in the--back in the what they call aft.

BLUMENBERG: The aft section of the ship, yeah.

SMITH: Yeah, and we thrown the bodies where, uh--

BLUMENBERG: --so, some people were--

SMITH: Canvas--canvas bags that slid into the sea. Yeah, that was another sad thing to see.

BLUMENBERG: How many people were--uh, were killed?

SMITH: Eight.

BLUMENBERG: Eight were killed.

SMITH: Uh, that wasn't too many compar-- considering--'cause he hit the wrong place, you know. He probably thought there was something there, but, uh--

BLUMENBERG: So, eight of your shipmates didn't make it though.

SMITH: Pardon?

BLUMENBERG: Eight of your shipmates did not make it. They--they--

SMITH: Yeah, they g-- yeah, they're gone. Yeah, they were, uh--they were down there whatcha call a, uh--they were stacked up by the bulkhead. You know, they couldn't get out the ba-- the doors had buckled [??] and they couldn't open it.

BLUMENBERG: So, they were trapped.

SMITH: So, they--they were trapped and burned u-- burned up there.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: Yeah, they--then the--I was on in the--on the shore there in Iwo Jima and about day--day three, day--we was there for about four or five days. And, uh, 00:18:00that--uh, was able to see the flag raising on Iwo there.

BLUMENBERG: When y-- when you were on the beach?

SMITH: Yeah, I was on the beach, you know.

BLUMENBERG: Wow, I mean that's--

SMITH: I had a pair of binoculars and I could see what is going on up there.

BLUMENBERG: That is major history.

SMITH: That's history.

BLUMENBERG: And you were part of it.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And who would've ever thought that was gonna happen.

SMITH: Well, at that time you didn't think much of it till, uh--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH:--the day they came and they had all those, uh, pictures of it raising, making a real big deal out of it, and.

BLUMENBERG: Right. Yeah, it was a big deal.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And now, it's, uh, one of the most--

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: --famous pictures ever.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: Military history.

SMITH: Yeah, we, uh--you know, when we went into Iwo we were, uh, on--they were 00:19:00softening up the island with battleships. And you could see--hear those shells going over the water, sixteen inch shells.

BLUMENBERG: Right, and they were--

SMITH: You could hear 'em going over into the--try to knock out the pillboxes and the, uh--

BLUMENBERG: And they were shooting those, uh, shells from miles out at sea, right?

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, very--you can't even see what battleships they're so far back, twelve miles or so.

BLUMENBERG: Right, but you were in closer to shore.

SMITH: Right by-- waiting for the [inaudible]. And those planes would dive in. And one time I was watching this one plane who was dive bombing. He never came on the dive, went right into the mountain. Oh, boy. That must've been instant death.

BLUMENBERG: Right.

SMITH: And geez, I said, "Boy." Yeah that was--then we [inaudible] these ships, 00:20:00these small--they were--they had, uh, goin' on the shoreline and just peppered that island with, uh, bullets and, uh, bombs, and, uh, tryin' to get rid of the little pillboxes up there. And--and they didn't do it.

BLUMENBERG: No? That was a tough island.

SMITH: Yeah, that was, uh--I was readin' about, they call 'em sergeant--well, he was a Congressional Medal of Honor winner. And, uh, they told him, "Why don't you go to the--you can go to the states and sell war bonds." And, "No, " he said, "I wanna go back with my--my outfit." And they said he stood up there and 00:21:00the bullet hit him right in the head, just--just, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: That was o-- on Iwo.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, wow.

SMITH: Ser-- I can't remember his name though. But he was a famous--he was a platoon leader.

BLUMENBERG: Well, maybe we can look that up later--

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG:--find out who that was, but.

SMITH: Eh-- ser-- oh boy, my mind is goin' too.

BLUMENBERG: Well, that was a few years ago too, so. [laughs]

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, but I mean--

BLUMENBERG: Well, you read the book. And I can't help you out 'cause I--I don't--I don't know who that would be.

SMITH: It'll c-- it'll come to me later. [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, that's all right. Next time I come in you can remind me.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, how are you feeling when you're on ship and all this is going on? Your first--your first outing. You're in--where, New Guinea?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And so you're nervous, you're--

SMITH: No.

BLUMENBERG: You weren't nervous.

SMITH: No.

BLUMENBERG: Did your basic training get you prepared for any of this?

SMITH: No, it--you took it as a--you had old-timers on there and, uh, some guys that were in before the war. Not many, but some. And they kinda keep things going and, uh, kinda--kinda looked up to those guys 'cause they--

BLUMENBERG: They've been around for a while.

SMITH: Yeah, they've been around.

BLUMENBERG: You know, that's interesting that you went to Great Lakes. My--my grandfather was an instructor at Great Lakes.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: He ser-- he served at the end of World War I and Wold-- World War II. But--

SMITH: Oh, boy. That was a--he must've been a thirty-year man.

BLUMENBERG: Well, he was in and out. So, he was at Great Lakes probably when you--

SMITH: Oh, they call him back then.

BLUMENBERG: Probably when you were there. He was an instructor there at Great Lakes. And my dad served and my grandpa served in the same place at Great Lakes at the same time.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, and then you were there too. [laughs]

SMITH: Yeah, we, uh--we had, uh, kind of an older guy d-- for an instructor. And he wasn't--he wasn't a mean guy. He was gentle.

BLUMENBERG: Oh.

SMITH: But the guy next door, he was a young guy. And boy, he was tough on those--

BLUMENBERG: Tough guy.

SMITH: Yeah, he was--well, companies, you know--different companies, we--this company, that company. And we'd drill, uh--drill out there. Yeah, that was, uh--then we'd get on the troop train goin' to California, and boy that was--goin' through those mountains. And you look down there and there's a river down there and you're go-- [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Oh, man.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you wanted to see the world, so you got to start seein' it right there.

SMITH: Yeah, got a free ride.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Let's see. Yeah, we went to, uh, Ja-- Japan then. And, uh, we was there 00:25:00for about a month. Uh--

BLUMENBERG: To get repairs on your ship?

SMITH: Pardon?

BLUMENBERG: Was that to have your ship repaired?

SMITH: No, we ha-- we already had it repaired.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, that was--wait, I--I'm--I was confused, yeah.

SMITH: We came back, uh--

BLUMENBERG: You went to, uh, was it San Francisco?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Then we went to Korea and then--then Japan. And we were--we had whatcha called occupation duty.

BLUMENBERG: Uh-huh.

SMITH: Yeah. We'd go on liberty, uh. Three of us guys traveled together and so it wasn't too bad, you know. Uh, you know, those Japanese, the war was over and th-- and--and the-- and they accepted it.

BLUMENBERG: They did, huh?

SMITH: Not like the--those guys, those Middle Eastern guys. They'll kill you just for lookin', uh, wrong at 'em, you know.

BLUMENBERG: So, that was a different time.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Now, where were you in Japan then?

SMITH: Yokohama and Tokyo, and mostly Tokyo.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Yeah, that was--

BLUMENBERG: Did you see any of the devastation after the bomb?

SMITH: Yeah, a little bit of it. We didn't go too far back. We was in near, uh, Tokyo bay and that wasn't too devastated. I saw--I saw MacArthur over there once.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, you did?

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, he was going to his office, pulled up in a big Army, uh, 00:27:00Sedan. You know, he got out and went into his office there.

BLUMENBERG: And you just happened to be there at the right time or there--?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, wow. Well, and he was in charge when Korea was going on, right? He was in char--

SMITH: No, he was, uh, occupation commander or something.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay, in Japan?

SMITH: Yeah. They hired him to--to--for that. I don't know.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you said you were in--in Japan, and then did you go to Korea after that?

SMITH: Went to Korea first.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, Korea first and then to Japan.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. And then you stayed how long in, uh, Japan? How long were you, uh, at anchor there?

SMITH: Oh, ab-- about a month. Then we, uh--one day they had a big ship out 00:28:00there. And we went out there and got all our gear together and got on that ship and were goin' back to the states.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: We're goin' back to Great Lakes. It was, uh--got on a ship and let us off at San Diego and, uh, got on a troop train.

BLUMENBERG: And then back.

SMITH: Goin'--goin' back full of sailors, holy mackerel.

BLUMENBERG: A lotta sailors.

SMITH: All goin' back to--all go-- getting discharged.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, what happened when--when the war was over, you were still onboard the ship. What--what kind of situation was that onboard? Was there celebration going on or--?

SMITH: Oh, they--they had us in, uh--I wou-- I didn't go, uh, shore. 00:29:00The--they--but they had one in Frisco. But, uh, I wasn't--I heard there was a lotta going on but I didn't--I was onboard ship and--

BLUMENBERG: You were still on duty then?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And you had work to do.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: So, not much celebration because of--

SMITH: No, I, uh, missed out.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, then you got back to San Diego and on a troop train and you ended up back in Great Lakes.

SMITH: Yep.

BLUMENBERG: And then what happened?

SMITH: I, uh--I was debating there whether--what to do. Uh, 'cause I, uh--uh, I had my discharge papers. And, uh, so I--I was thinkin', I said I wanna go to New 00:30:00York. I wanna--I never been to New York.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so--

SMITH: So, I got a train, a troop trai-- I mean, uh, Grand Central.

BLUMENBERG: Oh.

SMITH: And en-- ended up in New York City.

BLUMENBERG: [laughs] Well, uh, y--

SMITH: And I, uh--I'm standing there on the corner. [laughs] Uh, it was evening time. And, uh, I--I said--I think I said, well, now, what I'm gonna do now. I said I got this suitcase here. And--and some guy come walkin' up and he had, uh--I could tell he was a Indian guy. And he come up to me and he said, "Where are you from?" And I said, "I'm from Wisconsin." And he says--uh, started talkin' and he said, uh, he's Cherokee.

BLUMENBERG: Oh.

SMITH: So, I said, "I ain't got no place to stay." "Well, stay at a place where 00:31:00I am at, uh, uh nice hotel there." And so I went up and got a room there and spent the whole summer in New York City, Times Square.

BLUMENBERG: Wow, that's, uh--that's pretty exciting.

SMITH: Oh, man. That was a--you--at--New York City was something else by, uh, Times Square.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, I've never been there, so I--I--I guess I need to get there someday.

SMITH: Yeah, ye-- well, you know, it--it's kind of, uh, uh, a [inaudible] Times Square. And you, uh, can always buil-- uh, uh, let's see. Cafes and restaurants and all that.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, yeah, busy, busy things.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: A lot of activity goin' on, and--

SMITH: Yeah. Oh man, yeah. I--I used to walk down Broadway every--mostly every evening. Boy, that was--that was, uh, something else.

BLUMENBERG: That's a fond memory.

SMITH: Oh man, I guess so.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Then come--the latter part of August, I, uh--I had been there since May. So, I--I knew it was time to go 'cause--so, I--'cause I hadn't been home in couple years, you know. And I, uh--so, I decided to go home.

BLUMENBERG: Well, how'd you get home from New York then?

SMITH: Took a bus. [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: Took the bus from--

SMITH: Yeah, and--

BLUMENBERG: --New York City to--

SMITH: Chicago. Yeah, that was, uh--'cause, uh, had to get a train outta Chicago 00:33:00because, uh, what I sh-- what--what happened. I got off in, uh, Chicago's Loop. And I didn't know Chicago too well. Uh, so, I walked up the street. It was, uh, kind of a, uh, well known street anyway. And who should come walkin' down the street was my brother and--him and another guy.

BLUMENBERG: [laughs] What's the chance of that happening?

SMITH: Yeah. [laughs] Uh, so, I stayed with him a--uh, o-- overnight and, uh, took the bus out that--no, the train out the next day.

BLUMENBERG: So, you got to visit with Leonard in Ch-- Chicago.

SMITH: Yeah, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Just by accident or circumstance.

SMITH: Yeah, that was qu-- quite a--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, what was the general feeling about--the war was over. 00:34:00What--what were people saying and--?

SMITH: Yeah, you know, that was, uh--I don't know. It's, uh, lackadaisical attitude, I guess you could say.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, yeah.

SMITH: Uh, didn't know what I was gonna do. And you're undecided about a lotta things, you know.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you were still a young man too.

SMITH: Yeah, twenty-one.

BLUMENBERG: Twenty-one and all that, uh, action in the Navy and war.

SMITH: Yeah. I forgot about--I forgot about that, you know, when--for a long time, I never--just buried it, you know, buried the past.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Till, uh, lately, uh, things are going--people wanna know. Um, just like 00:35:00now, you know.

BLUMENBERG: Just like me.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: I'm--I'm interested. And I'm learning so much and then I write these articles and other people learn about it too that way.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, then y-- you left Chicago on a bus and you came back to where, Chippewa Falls or--?

SMITH: No, I went home to Northwoods Beach.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so, you were--

SMITH: That's where we--that's where we had our home there.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so, you were back in the Hayward area, Northwoods Beach.

SMITH: I stayed there till, uh, I think, uh, November.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Then I--I knew I had to go and get a job somewhere. So, I went back to Chicago and--

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: And worked there for--yeah. Then, uh--

BLUMENBERG: There weren't--there weren't many jobs around in this area. That's--

SMITH: No, you couldn't--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Y-- yeah, you could work on a farm for, uh--'cause you believe it or not, uh, worked on a farm for fifty cents a day.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, yeah, I--I believe you.

SMITH: Yep. That--that was the going rate.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, wow.

SMITH: Boy, oh boy. That's just a coke.

BLUMENBERG: Right.

SMITH: Today you pay that for a coke.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, half a cup of coffee.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, okay then. You went back to Chicago to--to get a job.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And what happened there?

SMITH: Oh, I--this guy that was with my brother, he had a place up there and so I stayed with him--

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: --all that summer. And his wife left him so he--he was all alone. And I went and stayed with him and--and I, uh--this one guy, he was in the Army. And 00:37:00he'd come--he came home one time. I seen him at Chicago there. And he convinced me to go into the Army 'cause, uh--well, there was, uh, tough times there, you know, Eisenhower days.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: You couldn't get a job in Chicago. Uh, yeah, things were real tight, you know. So, I says, well, why--I'm not makin' no money out there. So, I just--I went to, uh, Army recruiting and, uh, we took a bus to Evansville, Indiana. [inaudible]--huh?

BLUMENBERG: So, you enlisted in the Army in Chicago?

SMITH: Yeah, yeah. And then went down there where the 101st Airborne was, uh.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Evansville, Kentucky. No, Indiana. Uh, Evansville, Indiana, yeah that was--we had a--that's where the base--the division was stationed. And, uh, went to basic with, uh--with the 101st.

BLUMENBERG: So, you were 101st Airborne after being in the Navy?

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Wow.

SMITH: Yeah. And then the--let's see.

BLUMENBERG: Well, that would've been what, 1946?

SMITH: Forty-eight.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, '48, okay.

SMITH: I went in 1948 and--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, that's right. You spent some time in New York and then here and then b-- back down to Chicago, and--

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: So, 1948.

SMITH: And then 1953 I got out, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, then you had some experience in the Army too.

SMITH: Yeah, different. Uh, wh-- I wasn't, uh--I wanted to make sergeant, uh, when I was in, uh, Fort Sheridan, Illinois. We took our, uh, Army test. And, uh, I--I took it, so--'cause, uh, I wanted to make sergeant. And then I passed the test.

BLUMENBERG: Good for you.

SMITH: And they gave me stars and stripes, you know.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, yep.

SMITH: So, I was stationed in, uh, Fort Sheridan there for quite a while, about a--about a year, well, about a year and a half. Yeah, th-- that was a nice place, Fort Sheridan.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, I don't know where that is located, Fort Sheridan.

SMITH: About, um, m-- midway by Great Lakes.

BLUMENBERG: Okay, so--

SMITH: Next to Great Lakes, oh, about twenty miles.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Yeah, it was a--

BLUMENBERG: Well, how was basic training in the Army versus the--compared to the Navy?

SMITH: Well, we had to sleep outside, [laughs] maneuvers. We had little pop tents, you know, for two men in tents. And one guy would sleep on the outside and the other would sleep on the inside. And, uh, it--that was, uh--we'd take them long marches, you know, and twenty mile hikes.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, tough. Tough hikes.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: With a l-- with a big heavy pack on too.

SMITH: Yeah, it was--it wasn't real heavy, but it was enough to--

BLUMENBERG: And your weapon.

SMITH: Yeah, yep. Yeah, then we'd be all tired out, get near camp, and then, uh--then they'd tell you to get in formation and look sharp. [laughs] As [inaudible] tired as we were, you know.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, you had to look good even though you were wore out.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, how long did you stay there at Fort Sheridan?

SMITH: About a year and a half, two years.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Yeah, that was--that was a wonderful place.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, where did you go after that?

SMITH: Went to, uh, Indiana. Uh, C-- Camp Atterbury they call it, below, uh, Indianapolis there.

BLUMENBERG: Mm-hmm.

SMITH: And, uh, I was stationed there I don't know how long. Then--oh yeah, went to, uh--I was stationed in, uh, Maryland for a while too.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay. So, you--

SMITH: Intro to arsenal [??], yeah.

BLUMENBERG: So, you got to the East Coast.

SMITH: Boy, that was a nice--nice time too out there.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah.

SMITH: Good camps, you know. Yeah, and right near Baltimore. Yeah, that was, uh--I was stationed there for about a year. Oh, maybe not a year.

BLUMENBERG: So, in Maryland for about a year and then to Illinois?

SMITH: Yeah. I, uh--I maneuvered the Red Cross to get me back to, uh, Illinois.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay.

SMITH: And I went to the--what do you call it, attorney general and put a application. I wanna get disch-- uh, transferred to Illinois. So, they, uh--

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, they did it.

SMITH: Yeah, I was surp-- surprised they did that.

BLUMENBERG: And then were you discharged out of--out of, uh, Fort Sheridan or where--?

SMITH: No, over in, uh, uh, Fort Harrison. That's, uh, by Indianapolis.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow. So, you were goin' back and forth.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Now, did you ever get to Korea? You got to Korea in the Navy.

SMITH: Not during a war.

BLUMENBERG: Not during the war, okay.

SMITH: No, I--

BLUMENBERG: But not--not in the Army as--

SMITH: No.

BLUMENBERG: Okay. They got a lotta problems over there right now.

SMITH: Yeah, you know, it--I didn't have enough time left in my enlistment. That's why, uh, I didn't go to Korea.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, okay.

SMITH: You know, you g-- have to have a year left or somethin' like that. So, I wasn't mad about that.

BLUMENBERG: Right. I wouldn't be either. And then you, uh, went back to Indiana and wa-- you were discharged from there.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: And then what'd you do?

SMITH: Went back to Chicago and went to, uh, auto mechanic school.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: And that's what I ended up doing.

BLUMENBERG: And did you stay in Chicago then?

SMITH: Yeah. Yeah, I went to school there and, uh, on the South Side. Y-- you 00:45:00ever hear of, uh, Colosimo?

BLUMENBERG: I can't say that I have.

SMITH: Well, he had a tavern there, uh, right near where we went to school. And, uh, that's where the--they shot him, killed him right in his--Colosimo. He was a gangster.

BLUMENBERG: Huh. So, that was a famous place.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: But bad spot for him I guess. But, Colosimo.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: No, I haven't heard that. And how l-- how long did you stay in Chicago then? For--working as a mechanic, for a long time?

SMITH: Till 1973.

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: Then I cl-- came home.

BLUMENBERG: So, back to Northwoods Beach.

SMITH: Northwoods Beach.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. So, you've been around here for a while then af-- after you 00:46:00came back.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, do you have any, uh--you gotta a lot of wartime experience that's for sure and then your time in the Army besides. But you-- you've been around a lot. And I'm just wondering, d-- do you have any, uh, life lessons that you may have learned while you were in the military, things that you--things that you learned that you applied to--to your later years?

SMITH: No, it--it's just, uh, ordinary life.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. But did the military prepare you for any of that future--?

SMITH: No.

BLUMENBERG: No. Well, you have some big experience there that's for sure. And 00:47:00you s-- you said you wanted to see the world, and I guess you did that.

SMITH: Yeah. I seen a lot of violence. One time we went to an island and we set anchor, uh, and they let us go ashore. Oh, maybe ten of us went ashore. And, uh, we went on this one island. You know, there wasn't a soul on that island. Boy, that would've been somethin' for a guy to put a home up there.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, you'd have your own island.

SMITH: Have the own island. I think the--the Navy took the natives off that island. That's the way I--the way I see it.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, maybe.

SMITH: Yeah. Put 'em on another island.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. Well, what kind of feelings do you have about bein' in the military?

SMITH: Good amount of good feelings, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Good feelings.

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: So, wh-- was it a good experience for you?

SMITH: Oh, yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Even though you saw some very difficult situations.

SMITH: No, I--I remember one time, um, we hit a typhoon out there in the Pacific. And, uh, I thought we were gonna go over.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, terrible storm.

SMITH: Oh, the ship would go up, way to--I--I went out and looked out one time and to the outside. And, "Man," I said, "I don't know how this ship is gonna make it." Holy mackerel, we--all night long we was up and down. And, uh, I 00:49:00looked and, oh boy. I don't know how--we had a good captain anyway, put us in the right direction.

BLUMENBERG: That's a good thing. [laughs] Did you get sick?

SMITH: No.

BLUMENBERG: No? In that rough sea?

SMITH: No. Uh, when you get on there for a while you get used to it.

BLUMENBERG: So, you had your sea legs.

SMITH: Yeah, oh yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, wow. Well, you had good, uh--good memories of that, tough situation. But what kinda feelings do you have about war in general?

SMITH: Oh, I don't know. We had, uh--I guess, uh--[inaudible] really had it on 00:50:00Iwo Jima was the worst place 'cause we, uh--after we got hit, the-- there was another plane coming at us, you know. And by that time, we were all up there on the guns and all--everybody was on the guns. And man, they would shoot that guy. [laughs] Finally, the smoke come out of the fuselage, you know. And, oh, that looked good because you knew darn well he wasn't gonna--he was gonna go into the ocean, which he did.

BLUMENBERG: Wow, yeah.

SMITH: Then another time, uh, over in the Gilberts, uh, my gun was right there 00:51:00on--on the starboard side. And, uh, we couldn't shoot because, uh, this plane come right over the water, the Japanese plane come alongside our ship and looked at us. And, you know, I--I could just see that pilot [inaudible]. I don't know why he didn't, uh, strafe us or anything like that. He just looked us over and then was gone. Unless he was outta fuel or something. That was quite a experience there.

BLUMENBERG: That was in the Gilberts.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, you had a lot of experiences then. Wow. Well, are there any other things you wanna mention or--? You got a lotta stories. I know you do.

SMITH: Yeah, [inaudible]--one time, uh, it--you know, it's pretty hot there, ninety-some degrees out most-- ninety-some degrees out there. What do you call 'em? Ninety-day wonders, you know, the--a guy, he come and--he--he--he had a brilliant idea that this guy and I should go down below deck and paint this small little room, you know. And, uh, we was just painting there and pretty soon we got--we was--like, we was drunk, you know, them fumes.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, the paint fumes.

SMITH: Holy, man. He comes over and we start swearin' at him and everything. And he didn't say a damn word. [Blumenberg laughs] Uh, oh boy.

BLUMENBERG: The ninety-day wonder sent you up.

SMITH: Yeah, and I ended up--and I don't know how I got up on topside, but I--I was laying there and then--out on the deck. And that's when I came to. Boy, oh man. I guess we never did that again.

BLUMENBERG: No, I can imagine. The heat and the fumes. Well, anything else Richard?

SMITH: No, I--I used to be a--a boxer on the--on the, uh--on the ship, you know. I was one of the boxers. But sometimes we'd have, uh, little battles on the--get 00:54:00somebody from another ship and--

BLUMENBERG: Oh, oh, okay.

SMITH: Come over and, um, have a little battle.

BLUMENBERG: What weight class were you?

SMITH: I was, uh, mostly a lightweight, 135. Yeah. One time, uh, I fought this Black guy. And he was--he didn't wanna fight me. I said, "I'm nothin'. I'm nobody." [laughs] But we had a pretty good battle there. Then, uh--

BLUMENBERG: And that was on your ship?

SMITH: Yeah. There was a kind of a little platform there. And it was about--about twenty foot square. And had a canvas on it and everything, so that's where we had our--our battles, you know. And I was, uh, on the deck there 00:55:00and I look. On the next ship there was two guys standing up there and they recognized me. They were Indians, two Indian guys.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, and they recognized you from--where were they--where--?

SMITH: Yeah. They asked me where I'm from.

BLUMENBERG: Where were they from?

SMITH: North Dakota and, uh, s-- Washington was one. The one guy, I told him I said, "We're gonna have a boxing show here today." And I said, "I'm on it." And this guy said, "I'm--I'm on it too." I says, uh, "Gee, you didn't look like no fighter to me." Uh, he says, "I was the Oregon state champion."

BLUMENBERG: Oh.

SMITH: Oh man, okay. I--I said, "Well, I just--" boy, did [clears throat]--and he--he showed it too 'cause, boy, he was a--

BLUMENBERG: A good boxer.

SMITH: He--he was nonstop, nonstop.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you were lucky you didn't have to box him.

SMITH: Yeah. He was a little different weight than I was.

BLUMENBERG: Well, that's good.

SMITH: I think he w-- yeah, he was a welterweight, you know. And then, uh, let's see. Yeah, if-- some guy come along there one time. And, uh, he was, uh, spreading the word. Asked me do I wanna fight in Pearl Harbor up there in--they're having a big boxing show in Pearl Harbor there. And I said, "No," I said, "I can't." I said, "I'm not in condition. I just come off k-- uh, 00:57:00invasion, and I'm not gonna fight some guy who is in good condition and get--" [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: Get pummeled.

SMITH: Yeah. Let's see. I had quite a few fights. I fought a--I fought a guy one time, a Mexican guy. And man, I--I--I really worked this guy over. And, uh, he said, "Man," he said, "I have fought pro in Mexico." I--he said--I said, "Damn, I didn't know that." Yeah, he--I don't know how come I worked him over like that. Then another time I fought a guy from Texas. Uh, course he was bigger than 00:58:00I was too. Oh man, he says I hit him pretty hard. We were hittin' each other pretty damn hard. [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: You were in good shape then, that's for sure.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: You had to be.

SMITH: Well, I--I was [inaudible], you know, and when I was a kid. At Flandreau, the Indian school, we had a boxing team there.

BLUMENBERG: So, that was when you were in high school.

SMITH: And we went to different towns and fight. And Minneapolis, we went to Minneapolis one time. And, uh, went to, uh, Pierre, South Dakota, went out there to fight one time.

BLUMENBERG: Well, you got around.

SMITH: Yeah. And mostly in Worthington, Minnesota, we had a--every Friday night we'd go there and battle.

BLUMENBERG: Wow. Well, is there any other experience that you had while you were in the--either the Navy or the Army that you wanna talk about?

SMITH: No, I don't know.

BLUMENBERG: I know we've been at it for a while, but.

SMITH: I used to run around with a guy from Kentucky. And, uh, one time he says, uh, "Hey Smith, let's go to Lua [??]." I said, "Where's Lua?" "Louisville," he said.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, [laughs] Louisville.

SMITH: Yeah, that's what he was saying, Louisville, Lua.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, Lua, yeah.

SMITH: So I said, "Okay, we'll go." Take a--go take a bus over there. And we went out there one--one night. And we damn near got in trouble there in that one bar there, holy mackerel. We was lucky we got outta there alive 'cause I'm, uh--we were just two soldiers there.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah. Well, that's a lot of experiences that you had, different places.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: So, when you came back here to Northwoods Beach after you got outta Chicago, what--what were you doin' around in this area? Were you workin' up here?

SMITH: Yeah, [inaudible] in development. I've been workin' with them, yeah, for fourteen [??] years.

BLUMENBERG: So, you worked with the Lac Courte tribe at development. Okay, yeah. And then you ret-- retired from there?

SMITH: Well, not exactly. You don't retire from that place. You just put your time in and go home I guess. That's when Al Froma [??] was running it, you know. You remember him?

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, I--I knew Al.

SMITH: Yeah, he was a foreman there.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, that's a while back too.

SMITH: Yeah. I had a good experience here at the, uh--one fellow that comes and 01:02:00kinda preaches here. He took us to, uh--wanted to know--took another guy and I to Cable. And this guy had about eight old cars, nineteen-- had a Model T, couple Model As, thr-- three, four. And he took me for a ride in every one of 'em.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, really?

SMITH: Goin' down th-- goin' down the highway. [laughs]

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, that was a treat.

SMITH: Man, that was a--that was a thrill of a lifetime.

BLUMENBERG: Really? When did that happen, couple years ago?

SMITH: No, about a month ago.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, wow. Well, good for you.

SMITH: Yeah, it was--I don't know if you know what--what his name is now.

BLUMENBERG: Did he come from Cable?

SMITH: No, his--his wife worked for, uh--at the Ellary Feeding [??].

BLUMENBERG: Okay.

SMITH: She was a Froma [??], darn, I can't think.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, I can't think of who that would be. Well, that's nice that you had that opportunity.

SMITH: Yeah, it--that was very nice of him to take us.

BLUMENBERG: Really, yeah.

SMITH: Yeah, that was--

BLUMENBERG: Well, you must've had an interest in that and he talked to you about it.

SMITH: Yeah.

BLUMENBERG: Well, I know somethin' else that you do when you're--when you're here. I heard about your harmonica playing, so that's--[laughs] that's somethin' we have in common. Maybe we can do that some time.

SMITH: Yeah. I'll go home and get that.

BLUMENBERG: Yeah, that and your discharge papers. I should look at those so I can have--get some--some, uh, information off of there.

SMITH: Well, I suppose we better close it up now. It's a quarter after five.

BLUMENBERG: Oh, we can do that. [Smith laughs] Well, thank you for spending time. So, if there's nothing else, then I will say that I am Tom Blumenberg and it's August 10, 2017. And I'm here with Richard I. Smith, who had a very interesting career and, uh, time in the military. And I thank you, Richard, for spending time with me and for your service. I appreciate that, so thank you.

[Interview Ends]