Oral History Interview with Terrance F. Larson

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is January 14th, 2021. This is an interview with Terry F. Larson, who served in the United States Army from November 19th, 1969, to June 23rd, 1971. This is a phone interview being conducted by Luke Sprague, the oral historian for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum. There is no one else present in the interview room. So, how's it going, Terry?

LARSON: Pretty good. Thank you, Luke.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So I'm going to just ask you a few questions about yourself. When and where were you born?

LARSON: I was born XXXXXXXXXX, in XXXXXXXX, Minnesota. My parents, Floyd and Willa Larson were were small dairy farmers in Hanska, Minnesota, H-A-N-S-K-A, 00:01:00south of New Ulm.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And did, what was that like? Dairy farming in Minnesota.

LARSON: Well, I. I'll start before I had a memory. But what happened? Is um. My, I had a sister ten and a half months older, and so Mom could help on the farm and, and the cows and things. Early on, we were locked up in the house and were kind of mischievous so mom could do chores. So, you know, that was one thing, but it really didn't affect me until I was about ten or eleven years old. So I was old enough to help with chores, with the cows and everything, but that was 00:02:00kind of the life we led then. You didn't think about it. It's just how that small farm was.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what schools did you go to?

LARSON: I attended Hanska Public High School in town, small town, and I attended grade school and all the way through. But during, in grade school there were two classes together and then later on it was consolidated. And I graduated from Hanska Public High School in 1965 and the school closed in 1968. So I was one of the last graduating classes. There were fifteen in my class.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. Okay. So was it a one room schoolhouse or, or bigger.

LARSON: Well, actually, it was three stories.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: And enough room, you know, for two classes, in each room. And then they had the senior classes, like the science classes, math classes until it 00:03:00consolidated. Then they built on the elementary school when they brought all the rural districts into Hanska. So it's a three-story building, but not big.

SPRAGUE: What else do you remember about growing up there?

LARSON: Well, um, I really like the life on the farm. Um. But I have to say, my father, I found out later I didn't recognize it, but he had mental problems. And like I can remember my earliest recollection, he would have me grab an electric fence that kept the animals in, to see if I was a man or not. And so I went through kind of that history. And then I remember at seven years old, grandpa who left the farm said, Dad, mom could take over, would come out. And this was probably in '54, but we had a Model A pickup. And Grandpa taught me to drive that Model A pickup. And he laughed because to stop it, I had to get off the seat and sit on the floor to put the clutch and brake in at the same time. But 00:04:00this was a small area. You really didn't drive on the road when you were seven, but, at nine or ten, I would take the pickup and drive down the county roads to things and nobody cared. It was a small area.

SPRAGUE: So what got you into the military? Tell me about that.

LARSON: Well, I was, I did pretty good in school. And so it was assumed that I would go on to college. And which I did right after high school. And I took a appropriate amount of classes to stay out of the draft. The draft was going on for Vietnam then, and um, I actually got married before I was out of college. 00:05:00But when I got out of college, I, I was drafted and I tried to stay out of the army the infantry, but I applied for Air Force, I wanted to be a pilot and it was kind of goofy. The recruiter and I knew this story, but it was trying to get me into the opening in the Air Force. So I didn't ask to be drafted. But that didn't happen, and the reason I couldn't fly is when I was eleven years oldme and a fellow were playing up in the barn and I fell about fifteen foot and landed on my head and I had a fractured skull.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: I had bleeding on the brain. And the, um, Mayo Clinic in Rochester, they had a surgeon on call at all times from the hospital that they would fly in, and release pressure to my brain. I got through that and then I found out with a scab on my brain that bleeding. I had a concussion for three and a half years. So flight navigating was out of the question.

SPRAGUE: Hey, Terry. So I just we just got the last piece of that in the interview that there was it was broken up a little bit before that.

LARSON: Okay.

SPRAGUE: That's good. Right now, wherever you are right now, that's working on your cordless wireless phone. Um, so that's better. Could you just rehash about, um, because it was a little bit broken up on the cell phone about falling and the injury and so on, please.

LARSON: Okay. Yeah, when I was eleven years old, in sixth grade, my friend and I from town were playing in the hay mow, and I fell out and we went through a chute where the bales were sent through, and I fell about fifteen foot, and landed on the back of my head. Now, I found out now that the impact compressed my brain and when it rebounded, the crack was in front of my forehead. So I was in the hospital for nine days and out of the Mayo Clinic there was a surgeon on 00:07:00call and a helicopter standing by and had to fly to about ninety miles to come and really, release the pressure. And I got by that part without any surgery. But I found out later that I had bleeding on the brain, and because of that, I had a scab and I had a concussion for three and a half years. Any thing that was taught to me made me very dizzy and I couldn't ride in school busses, back seat of cars, and it was very limited. So that kept me from pilot school, even though I passed all our requirements. But military history and any other navigator or pilot school.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Terry. So let's let's pause the interview here for a moment. This is segment two of the interview with Terry Larson. And we had to stop there for audio quality issues. Terry, one of the things that I may have missed at the 00:08:00beginning there was tell me about your you had mentioned about your college career. Could you help flesh that out a little bit more?

LARSON: Okay. I graduated from Hanska High School in 1965, second in the class of fifteen, and I started Mankato State College in pre-engineering. So in the fall, while I stayed home and commuted with a bunch of guys for two years, thirty-mile commute, one way, to Mankato State College. And then after my pre-engineering, I should have gone to the University of Minnesota or another college to finish, but I had no money. So I stayed in Mankato until I graduated. I actually graduated in July of 1969 with a B.S. in math and physics and 00:09:00computer science. And then I stayed in Mankato, but I moved away from home and I, I lived off campus and I finished, um, going to college. And then in July of 1969. But in April of 1969, my wife and I were married and, um. And, so then after that I knew I'd be drafted. So I kind of worked for farmers around until my draft orders came and I was drafted on the day my oldest daughter was due to be born, um. But I went into the service.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what are you what, uh. What were your where your family's 00:10:00thoughts and your thoughts on the draft itself and being drafted?

LARSON: Well, it's just that that's what happened in those days. And you really went into service when you were drafted or you went to Canada. That was your choices. So it's something you, you did. And I was glad to serve my country. I was not wanting to leave my wife, my daughter, but everything else was okay. But I feared about going to Vietnam because in '69 and '70, that was when it was really at its high point. And I wanted to come home to my family, that's about it.

SPRAGUE: So what was there? What was your wife's reaction to that, the notice?

LARSON: Well, I was working for a farmer out in the field when she got the mail when I was 1-A. And she drove out and she was crying. But I just said, dear, we 00:11:00expected this.

SPRAGUE: So, tell me about going to basic training.

LARSON: Well, first of all, I went to report to Brown County draft board in New all Minnesota. And I said I wanted to stay home till after our baby came. And they said they had no authority that had to go to APs up in Saint Paul, Fort Snelling, and tell them and they'd send me home where I was going to get the physical. So I told them when I got to Saint Paul and they said they had no authority that they would take care of that in basic training. So then we were put in a motel and then we were flown down to Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And the induction, I mean, when you enter basic training, the people came out running and hollering and I didn't know what the excitement was. Well, it was to show you who had authority there. But after they gave this speil, I said, "Now you're supposed to send me home." And that was the biggest joke in that whole 00:12:00compound at that time. Of course, I wasn't going home. I was in basic training.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And you were inducted, too?

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: So how did that that. Yeah. How did that make you feel?

LARSON: Well, I didn't know what basic training was all about, but my feeling was then I was a college graduate and the Army would see fit to give me a soft job. So, first of all, I had foot problems and basic training, marching, but I live with that. And um, I didn't really try that hard because, you know, I 00:13:00didn't think it was necessary at that time, even though there was a Vietnam going on.

SPRAGUE: So you're at basic training. You're at Fort Bragg, right?

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: What what do you remember? What what do you remember about basic training that sticks in your mind?

LARSON: Well, it's, it was probably kind of routine. You'd, what you said if you had eight hours of sleep every night. So they would shut the lights off at ten and they turn them on at six. So that told everybody you had eight hours of sleep, but that you had fifteen minutes before muster to do a, your shower and 00:14:00shave and toiletry things and make your bed and and mop the floor and Brasso the garbage can, and everything to put that in order before you fill out in formation for breakfast. But then everybody had guard duty at night for an hour. So it took me a half hour to get ready for guard duty or to do guard duty, half hour to go back to bed. So you really were living at five hours of sleep a night.

SPRAGUE: What were the barracks like at Fort Bragg at that time?

LARSON: Well, they were left over from World War Two and they were up on stilts and asphalt floors and and wooden walls, you know, I'm not double walled, but they were clean and good showers and everything. So that part was fine.

SPRAGUE: So you get done at Fort Bragg. Where do you go next?

LARSON: Okay. I might add one thing I found out. I stood in line every night to call home because my wife was due and after about ten days I called home and she wasn't there. So I called her folks and she wasn't there. So I called the hospital and said, "Is Elaine Larson there?" And they said, "Who's calling?" And they said Her husband." And the nurse was very sarcastic. She said, "And why aren't you here?" And I said, "Well, the Army has something to say about that." So I was so proud. I sent somebody who could get us out of the barracks, a permanent party guy, to go buy a cigar at the PX. And I had everybody light up a cigar. And while we were smoking, Lieutenant Flannery came in. I remember his name, and I was the second in command, actually, and, you know, the make believe 00:16:00command. And I was supposed to report to him, well, I really didn't care that night. So he should have known something was going on. But he made me to push up 'til I couldn't. And then he made me sit up so I couldn't anymore. And he didn't even ask why everybody is smoking a cigar.

SPRAGUE: That was at basic then?

LARSON: Yes. So then your question about AIT. Oh. A lot of us were sent to Fort Polk, Louisiana, and it was the weekend of Mardi Gras. So on the plane, the military flight being an Air Force base in Louisiana, we decided we get off and this was Friday and our orders were to report Monday morning. So we were going to get together and figure out how to get to Mardi Gras. Well, we were met by we call them cattle haulers, deuce and a halfs. And we're told we're going back to the compound. So we had no choice. So Saturday morning instead of Mardi Gras, we were on a detail raking leaves.

SPRAGUE: That was at Fort Polk, right?

LARSONL Yes.

SPRAGUE: And this would have been, looks like the spring of 79 or 69. Sorry.

LARSON: Yes, probably February and March.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. What? What type of training did you go for at Fort Polk?

LARSON: Infantry training. And I was trained at about any kind of firearm you could carry. And what I'll say about Fort Polk, we, um, we knew this was infantry training for Vietnam, so our whole company paid attention, let's put it that way. And we wound up with the most points of anybody ever. So, what they did, they made everybody a PFC and they made the captain a major. And right down, down the line. And what I really just said, it was I was never an E-2 in the service. I went from E-1 to E-3 on the graduation on Fort Polk. And. We received every trophy they could give us.

SPRAGUE: Wow. So that's interesting to me that the officers also got promoted.

LARSON: Oh, everybody got promoted.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, and that was a it was at an AIT training company.

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: Advanced infantry training.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. So what happens after Fort Polk?

LARSON: Well, I didn't get my orders when we graduated. And so, I got my orders the day after and my orders that I was going to Fort Lewis, Washington, for Red Eye training. And I was going to embark from Fort Lewis. Oh, did I say Fort 00:19:00Bliss, Texas and El Paso? But I was going to embark from Fort Lewis, Washington. And so I went down to the orderly room and asked the CQ sergeant what that meant. And he said, a Red eEye gunner was a door gunner. And I was going through Fort Lewis, Washington, which was Northern Vietnam. So then I called home and I told Mom I was going to be a door gunner in Vietnam. And Mom cried all night. But what it really was, was a shoulder fired, surface to air infantry, infrared guided missile, and they didn't have them in Vietnam because if the Russians were to copy them, they would have shot down all our helicopters. So the Red Eye was only it was in an infantry stage, but it's only in Vietnam. Oh. Excuse me. Only in Korea and Germany. So I didn't have enough time for Germany. So I went to Korea after leave.

SPRAGUE: So just to help me out here, you. You leave Fort Polk. You go to Fort Bliss.

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And then on to Fort Lewis or just to Fort Bliss and then depart from there.

LARSON: Well, Fort Bliss. And then I had leave.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: And then from Minnesota. Then I went to Fort Lewis to go to Korea.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And while you were at Fort Lewis, were you just. Were you there passing through TDY or were you assigned a unit and then you rolled from there?

LARSON: Well, first of all, Luke. I was in upper part of the class.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: So I actually fired a Red Eye missile.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow.

LARSON: At a drone, a radio control drone. So I was. And I've got a pin now, 00:21:00that said I'm a Red Eye missile firing guy.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to have any pictures of you doing that or.

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: Well, not me, but other people doing it. Yeah, the same thing. But I've got some it's old film, you know, and I've got pictures of that. I'm going to submit that, you know, I'm proud of that.

SPRAGUE: Curious. Yeah, that's quite you know, not everybody has documentation for that anymore or no stuff for that. That's why I ask.

LARSON: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Yup. You fire the Red Eye missile, you get done with a missile training. You go to Fort Lewis?

LARSON: Well, I went to leave then.

SPRAGUE: Okay. I live in Minnesota. That's right.

LARSON: And so I my my girl, my daughter, who I saw. Well, from Fort Bragg, they let us go home for Christmas. So, I saw my daughter when she was like a couple, 00:22:00three weeks old. But then I got to see her again. You know, on leave out of Fort Bliss, Texas, so I went home for three, four weeks on leave.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: But then, like you asked at Fort Lewis, Washington, I was only there to be sent to Korea. So I don't know how long I was there. A half a day or something.

SPRAGUE: Oh. Passing through. Okay.

LARSON: Yeah. It was not assigned to any duty or anything.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did was it you individually getting on an aircraft flying over or were you deploying as a unit from Fort Lewis?

LARSON: Well, they had a, out of Seattle, they had a DC-9 fly to Korea, and there were 290 troops on board. And the flight there was we flew out of Fort Lewis. The sun was starting to come out, but we went to Anchorage, got dark 00:23:00again. Then we went from Anchorage, Alaska, to Yokohama Airbase in Japan, and it got dark again. And then we flew from Yokohama Airbase to Kimpo Airbase in South Korea and it was overcast and Japan was quite modern. Yeah. Everything at the airport was smaller and things, but it was quite modern. But when we broke through the clouds in Kimpo Airbase, everything was thatched roofs and mud walls and water buffaloes. And we thought we'd gone back 5,000 years in history.

SPRAGUE: And so that would have been what year? 1970.

LARSON: 1970? That would have been in May 1970.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So we'll go back let's, we'll hop back here to Kimpo. Yeah. So those were your your impressions of Korea. What else?

LARSON: Well, then we were taken to the replacement center. I was told now it was Camp Ross, and I was in the 2d Infantry Division and I was sent up to the DMZ in Korea. And when I got there. The next morning, we met with the captain who is going to assign us duty. And the captain asked if I could type, and I said I could type. And he said, "Well, you're our new legal clerk." And I said, "I, they told me and, you know, I didn't know anything about the Army. And they told me I was with my missile training. I was staying in missile section." And I said, "How are you going to cover that up?" And he says, "Well, we're going to cover it up by promoting you today." So, I became a Spec-4. And in three months. I went from an E-1 to a Spec-4.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

LARSON: And I became a legal clerk.

SPRAGUE: Huh. So, did they do a reclass on you for your, your, your MOS or just promote you to Spec-4?

LARSON: Well, they made me a clerk typist because in the TONE there was no such thing as a as a legal clerk. There was right after I left, but then there was not a spot, so I was carrying in excess as a clerk typist.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: My whole duty over there.

SPRAGUE: And where was it when they. The captain picked you up? Where. Where did you go? Up by the DMZ.

LARSON: Right out of DMZ and Camp Dodge. You crossed Freedom Bridge over the Imjim River. And right at the end of that, if you were going to Panmunjom, that Peace Village, you would take that road. But Camp Dodge was right on the left, and it was part of sections that the Americans controlled then.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about, you know, when you leave Kimpo, you go, you know, go through Moonson. You go across the Imjim there. What were your first impressions of Camp Dodge?

LARSON: I was pretty much like the bases back and, you know, and we called it in the world, then. Actually the barracks that we stayed in was a long fiberglass building with a metal floor. And it was pretty much up to date, you know, compared to the World War two barracks back in the States. And we had our own area of bunk and wall lockers and foot lockers, but. The funny part about it is. We had a houseboy, Mr. Pah, and um, he would take care of polishing our boots and doing our laundry. And so we had all of that provided by a nominal amount of 00:27:00money that we paid Mr. Pah. And what was really funny, they would announce that there would be a, an inspection. And so we had to get our footlockers and everything in order. Well, all inspected was Mr. Pah, we didn't do none of that.

SPRAGUE: And so I understand your, it's a little difficult over the phone, but it's Pah, P-A-H. Does that sound right?

LARSON: What's that?

SPRAGUE: The man's name P-A-H.

LARSON: I don't know. We just called him Mr. Pah.

SPRAGUE: Okay, no problem. I'm just asking.

LARSON: I did. I didn't know. Well, we paid him at the end of the month. We gave him cash, and we didn't know what his name was.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

LARSON: Called him Mr. Pah.

SPRAGUE: Oh, I was just curious, that's all.

LARSON: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So which company within, you had mentioned in the pre-interview call that it was First of the 38th I think you said yes. I'm sorry. Is it? I'm assuming it's an infantry battalion?

LARSON: Well, the First of the 38th, actually, as far as I know, originated in World War One. Mhm. And they were fighting World War One but the Germans were 00:28:00coming off after Marne River, crossing the Marne river in the First of the 38th, uh held their ground and kept on being overrun by the Germans. So this was the First of the 38th Battalion. And it was known as the Rock of the Marne.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um. And then. Is that the clerk typist? What part of the. I'm assuming you were at the battalion headquarters or HHC or you tell me which company you were in?

LARSON: Yes, we were. We're actually headquarters company, but we worked in battalion headquarters and my job was to process all the legal work. And also I was assigned a vehicle because I had a military driver's license. So, once a day I would go down to camp house as a, on a courier run, and then I would pick up popcorn and things and I would pick up the replacements. So I had a multitude of duties.

SPRAGUE: Interesting. What else do you remember about that job?

LARSON: Well, the reason I was named legal clerk, Luke, was this happened before I got there, but there was a Sergeant, I think, there was had foxhole duty in the Zone at night and he was mad that he had night duty. And so he came to battalion headquarters with a machine gun to get his platoon sergeant. And at that time. The Executive Officer, Major Igneous Steffany was up in headquarters company up the hill from headquarters, and there was a sand barrel there. That had sand in it for the wintertime, this was like in June. Well, it was before I got there, so say probably in May. But when he saw the major come out, the major 00:30:00jumped behind the barrel and the barrel took three rounds. So they needed somebody to do all the paperwork and.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, Sergeant XXXXX.

LARSON: What's that?

SPRAGUE: It's correct, Sergeant XXXX.

LARSON: I think. Sure. Call them. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And tell me a little bit about the story you had mentioned in the pre-interview about going to the Kimpo Stockade.

LARSON: Okay. Yeah, that they came up to me after XXXXX was discharged dishonorably for psychiatric reasons. What it really was that he smoked too much pot. But I don't know if I should say that. So when he got discharged, I had to do is discharge paperwork his CTS paperwork. And I was told to go down, take a Sergeant Duncan with me and go down to the Kimpo Stockade, which is about a 00:31:00two-hour drive, pick up XXXXXX and take him over to the evac hospital to be sent home. And our direct orders were if XXXXXX escape. We were supposed to take our .45s and holler, "Halt," and then shoot him. So on the way down, I said that. Sergeant Duncan, "Are you going to shoot him?" He said, "No." I said, "Well, I'm not going to shoot him, either." So we took off our .45s and our ammunition, and tucked them underneath the seats. And we picked up XXXXX at the stockade. Took him over to the EVAC Hospital. And we had to go through bringing him into the eVAC hospital. And the sergeant on duty said, "What are you doing here?" And we said, " We got a prisoner." And he said, "Well, I don't know about that." And we said, "I don't care. Just sign for him. It's your duty." So, he took XXXXXX and 00:32:00we left, drove two hours back to the zone. And when we got to Camp Dodge, everybody had their weapon drawn. And they said. Um. XXXXXXXX escaped, he went AWOL right after you turned him over. And we thought, oh, boy, we could have been a lot of trouble. We would have covered it up, we'd have shot into the ground or something and say that we missed. You know, that should be be on this story, too, probably. But that's what I did in transferring prisoners and things.

SPRAGUE: You had also mentioned a number of things over your tour over there. 00:33:00You also talked a little bit about Camp Howze and 7th ID losing their colors. Can you tell me a little about that or.

LARSON: Well, yeah. See, we were up on Camp Dodge for five months. It was supposed to be three months and then another battalion taking over. But they were turning the whole DMZ to the ROK, to Republic of Korea soldiers. So the Americans were pulling us on. So to facilitate that, I had five months on, on Camp Dodge. And then we went south to Camp Custer outside of Pah Tri. And we were there until they announced that the seventh of it we were Camp Dodge, or Camp Howze was headquarters, the second Infantry Division, the division where you see the Big Red or White Star and the Indian head and Camp Casey in 00:34:00Tongdushan was 7th Division headquarters. Well, 7th Division in the Korean War, had to be excavated by water. And so the army term that is losing your colors. And if you don't have colors, if you're overseas 7th Battalion or Division, you cannot come back to the United States. So they shut down the 7th Division. And so we were moved from Camp Custer down to Camp Hovey, which was a battalion area compound right outside of Tongdushan, which 2nd Division took over from the 7th Division as headquarters.

SPRAGUE: So were they actively, was there a unit active swap-out when you were there in that rotation and you're talking about pulling those U.S. forces off of the DMZ and rotating in the ROK units? Was that occurring when you were there, before or after? Please. Can you put any point on there?

LARSON: Well, yeah. See, I went right to the DMZ zone and I was there for five 00:35:00months and there was no rotation then because they were giving that back to the ROK troops. Okay. So when we left the DMZ, after five months, we went to Camp Custer, which was where we were supposed to go if we were rotating. But then after Camp Custer, since we're going back to the DMZ again, we went down to Camp Hovey and 2nd Division out of the Camp Howze was moved to Camp Casey and replaced the 7th Division headquarters.

SPRAGUE: Okay. It makes sense. Mentioned during the pre-interview phone call, you had talked a little bit about the rec center at Camp Custer. Can you tell me about that?

LARSON: The what?

SPRAGUE: The recreation center.

LARSON: And yeah, that was actually. RC-1 was outside of Paju-Ri. Okay. One 00:36:00thing I can say about Camp Custer had a church and our battalion supported an orphanage. We supported, though we were the only battalion that supported a complete orphanage by our, you know, contributions at pay time. And what we did at Camp Custer, they sent deuce and halfs every Sunday morning down to the orphanage and they brought the orphans back and they were our choir. And after service we would go outside of the church and the orphans would come out and they would select us and we would take them down to the EM Club, which was set up with sodas and cookies and sandwiches. And we would treat them to, you know, things that they weren't used to at all. But this one little girl always selected me, and she couldn't talk any English. But come Christmas time, she said they were going to do a program in our theater, and she tried to say what 00:37:00she was going to do. Well, she was a little rabbit in a in a Christmas skit. And um, see, I had no job back home and I had a daughter and anything I would have liked to brought her home.

SPRAGUE: You know, that's quite a story. It's interesting.

SPRAGUE: And that, in Camp Custer, you said it was outside the town of Paju-Ri. That's correct. Is that how you pronounce it?

LARSON: Paju-Ri and don't ask me how to spell that. Okay. Paju-Ri.

SPRAGUE: Paju-Ri. Okay. I'm just curious because I know where the other places are and I wasn't familiar with that camp because it's gone away since then, so.

LARSON: Well, it was it was right outside of Camp Custer. And Camp Custer was 00:38:00below a hill called Charlie Black because during the Korean War, everybody in the Charlie Company was killed on that mountain. That hill. And we were on one side of Charlie Block and Brigade was on the other side.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what, speaking to another Korean veteran, which I served in Korea as well. Tell me a little bit about being a being away from your family during that time, if you can.

LARSON: Well, I was kept busy and that was good. I called home a couple of times, and when I called home back then, they didn't have a cable going straight through. So what you would do is a Korean operator who called a ham radio operator in Korea who called a ham radio operator in the United States who put 00:39:00you on phone to your family. So I called home only a couple of times, but I probably decided not to take R&R to go home. First of all, my legal work kept me busy and it would have been hard to go back again. Not that my duty was that bad is that I would have had to leave my family to call after R&R. So I didn't do that.

SPRAGUE: So yeah, I. I'm familiar with what you're talking about with the ham-to-ham radio and our phone call. I know they still had that when I was in Korea, but they used it. They, of course, then had, uh, wireline and fiber optic, but they still had the old that oldest system that you're talking about. 00:40:00Interesting you mention that, because we used to use it on the radio tops, so on mountain tops. So, yeah.

LARSON: Okay, Luke, I should add something. I didn't find this out recently. If you served during in time north of the Imjim River, you got an award that was called the Imjim Scout Award. So I got that, too. And I didn't even know it 'til recently.

SPRAGUE: Oh. Congratulations. I know where the Imjim River is.

LARSON: What's at.

SPRAGUE: I know where the Imjim River is.

LARSON: Oh, yeah. That's a mile wide.

SPRAGUE: Wide. Yep. So tell me, you also mentioned during the pre-interview you talked about getting your division certificate of achievement. Tell me about that.

LARSON: Well, I kind of had a lot to do with that, but that was the highest honor you could have non-combat. But because of my service and everything I did, I received the division's certificate of achievement. Now, I don't have the printed form, form on that because when I brought it home, my dad wanted to put 00:41:00that in the local Hanksa Herald paper and what he actually did, instead of getting that in the paper, he destroyed it. So but I did receive that and I tried to track it down, but I didn't find any record of that. Also, I might say that after I was in the service for a year, which put me in company for like, uh, ah, six, seven months, I, um, they came up to us, me and another fellow. And they said that, that personnel sergeant that left and we had to organize the E-5 00:42:00board to make sure everybody applying to become an E-5 had their paperwork right. So, me and Roger Langley, went through that and put all the paperwork in and everybody went through the board. And then I stood in line and all our officers said, "Larson, what are you doing here?" I said, "Well, I'm up for promotion." They said, You have to waive over two years off your time and duty to be E-5. And I said, "Here's the waiver paperwork." So I was made E-5 with one year in service and I received the highest points on the board.

SPRAGUE: That's incredible.

LARSON: But I chose to be a Spec-5 instead of a sergeant. Okay. And then I was able to keep driving a vehicle because sergeants weren't supposed to drive vehicles either.

SPRAGUE: It also mentioned before. While you were there and doing things that you went to or you were involved somehow with the Bob Hope and Johnny Bench. Tell me about that.

LARSON: Okay. Can I add one more thing before that Luke?

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LAROSN: Back to infantry training. They had what was called a John Wayne course. And what you did on a John Wayne course, you had a machine gun, an M-16 with a shoulder strap that you lengthened and put over your shoulder and you put the butt against your thigh and. Instructions were to walk three steps and take three rounds, fire three rounds. Walk three more steps and take three more rounds and keep doing that 'til you hit your target as you were walking toward it. 00:44:00And the purpose of that was to teach you instinctive fire in case you were ambushed. Well, I don't know what happened, but. I took my three steps and I fired and it was right in front of my feet. I was kind of low, so I took three more steps and I fired above the target. So then I took three more steps. I held a trigger. And I don't know why I did it but I mowed everybody's target down. And the guy up in the box, you know, up in the tower overlooking, went off. He went off, he was screaming and hollering, but he didn't do nothing. But I bring that up now because I went down to replacement center one day to pick up a couple sergeants, and here was one of the sergeants out of the tower. And so I was trying to look sideways. So he didn't see my face. And as I drove, he 00:45:00finally said, "You're the bastard from the John Wayne course." And I said, "Yah, I'm the bastard." And then he said, "You're the same rank as I am now." And I said, "Well, shit happens."

But yeah, that the USO show, I was very honored. It was in the recreation center outside of Paju-Ri, not far from our compound. And we were in our office one day and a lieutenant came down from Brigade and said our battalion would be responsible for the stage crew at the USO show. And they needed four guys. And the lieutenant said you should have one from each company. Well, that was not going to happen. He left our office and we got in front of the floor and we were flipping coins. And I was to be on, with a Sergeant Lee, our personnel sergeant, 00:46:00and we were supposed to be on the stage crew. And our specific duties at the USO show, was we were supposed to put a cot and screening on the stage. And after the skit was done, we're supposed to take them off stage, stage. Well, I saw in there, then my second cousin Lyle Willock was a medic in second division. And um. So, when I got to the stage here, he had cut out early and he was sitting right in front of the audience and then a two-bladed helicopter came in and they first steered to clean off the stage. So Sergeant Lee wasn't there. So, I went to the Lieutenant and I said, "Can my cousin help me?" "Sure." So then we got to 00:47:00the point where we put the cot on the stage and we put screening behind it. And then this they called it modern, modern volunteer army, then. Our guy playing that came on and jumped into the cot and he had red flannel pajamas. He had a button down behind like a kid would have in booties on his pajamas. And he was a modern volunteer Army guy and his dad was a senator and he was Johnny Bench.

SPRAGUE: Was that the baseball player Johnny Bench or somebody else?

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: So then, well, I might add that they left Vietnam, it was 116 and it was 16 in South Korea. So the dancing girls and Miss World and everybody was freezing their butts off. But then the drill sergeant came up to try and get Johnny Bench to do something, and he had a fatigue jacket on, and the gold stripes, you'd get one for every other, every two years of service he had them from his wrist to his elbow. And then he took off his fatigue jacket and he had a tacky, short-sleeved shirt on and he had this gold things, scotch-taped to his 00:48:00arm. He was the lifer's lifer. And um, when he got done with his skit, well, of course he was Bob Hope. And when he got done with the skit, he went in front of the stage and put on a pappasan hat and a peace pipe, which was an opium pipe and a kimono jacket, telling one, well he wasn't smoking opium of course, selling one liners to probably about 30,000 troops. And Lyle Willock my second cousin who was helping me were just tall enough to be in the service and pretty stocky. And I was about five-nine and pretty thin. And Bob Hope turned around and he said, I didn't know Abbott and Costello were on the show tonight. That's on film somewhere.

SPRAGUE: In that. What? What, what? What month? What year would that be? Roughly.

LARSON: I'm guessing probably October or November of '70 yet. We're still in Camp Custer and we hadn't gone south to Camp Hovey, so it would still be before Christmas.

SPRAGUE: It was just starting to cool off. Yeah. Getting Cool. What? Your. Your second cousin's last name. Could you. Well.

LARSON: Willock. W-I-L-L-O-C-K.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Got it.

LARSON: There was another thing, story you can tell about picking up replacements. I was kind of naughty. Um. We were told there were three replacements to pick up in Camp Ross and that afternoon compound over we're still up in the Zone the compound over the New Christy Minstrels were playing for the USO. So, we went over to that concert, which was very nice, but then it 00:50:00was almost end of our duty, you know, 5:00 mess time. And we had a call that there were three replacements and I don't know what got into me again, I shouldn't tell all these secrets, but I went and three of us decided to go down in my ton and a quarter. So I went in and I withdrew three M-16. And I told everybody to put on your web gear and their steel pots. So we rode down to Camp Ross and we picked up these three guys and. We got them in the ton and a quarter 00:51:00and we said we're going into a combat area on the Zone. We said were you issued steel pots? They said yeah, "Put 'em on." How about your web gear? We issued where it is. Yeah. Put it on. Then we said were you issued weapons. They said no, and we said some four letter words and we said, this always happens. We have to fill up, um pick up unarmed guards, take them into a combat area and protect them. Well, they weren't sharp enough to look at our M-16s showing there was no magazine in 'em, you know, in 'em. But when we got to Freedom Bridge to cross over the Imjim River, we made them lay flat on the floor for their own protection. One of them turned out to be the cook. Every time I went through the chow line and he said, I'm going to poison you.

SPRAGUE: Oh, what a great story.

LARSON: Well, I was kindof. I got by with that stuff because like I said before, everybody feared if they had legal work, they had to be on the right side of me.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, absolutely. When you were crossing in the Imjim there, were you in a deuce and a half, five ton or a Jeep?

LARSON: Well, that back then, at first I had a ton and a quarter, the pickup.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: And see, that was the way when you were there, but there was only a one lane bridge. So we had gate guards on either end.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: So one time we Lieutenant Chalker told me we were going to go down, pick up some second lieutenants. Well, you were in the service, that's like swearing. So, but you had to have somebody overranking, an officer to pick them up. So, Lieutenant Chalker and I went down. To pick up these two second lieutenants right out of officer training to bring them back to the Zone. And we got to 00:53:00Freedom Bridge, and I think it was over in a Korean section on top of a hill. They had a five ton with four quad fifties, and they were just firing as fast as you could fire. And I don't know what they were shooting at, but the gate guard came to us and said, if you can't cross now, there's rounds going over the bridge. Well, that's okay. You know, we'd wait. Well, they didn't tell second lieutenants that things like that happened. You know, nobody gets hurt, but just to wait it out. But Lieutenant Chalker, took us over to compound next and found this abandoned building that was all dusty. And the fluorescent lights were gone out of the ceiling and the windows were broke. And we dropped these second lieutenants off in this building and left them. Didn't even tell him where they could go to eat. [Laughing] Well, that's not the end of the story. Well, one of 00:54:00them was Lieutenant Anderson, and he was in charge of the Red Eye section. And he found out I had a Red Eye MOS, and he came into my office one day and says. "I'm pulling you into my section." And I said, "Well, I worked for the major now. You better talk to him. And I'm busy." So he never got me. Never got to get even. But Lieutenant Chalker was a first lieutenant and he was a ROTC guy and he had a short timer status.

SPRAGUE: How do you say Chalker? How do you say it, Chocker.

LARSON: Chalker or something like that?

SPRAGUE: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Maybe.

LARSON: But he was ROTC guy. And I can add this. Luke, into the museum. I've got a yearbook put out by the First of the 38th.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: So, I put that in the museum.

SPRAGUE: Okay, great. Huh? Well, I bet those lieutenants were scratching their heads.

LARSON: Well, they were white in the face. And we didn't help out.

SPRAGUE: I'm not surprised. So. Well, what other stories do you have from Korea that you'd like to share?

LARSON: Oh, let me see. It was mainly my legal work and that I would take the prisoners down to Kimpo stockade. And then I, if they were being discharged in 00:55:00thirty days, I had to put their paperwork together so that if, if they spend more than thirty days in stockade, they had to either to go back to the compound or back to the world. So I had thirty days to get all their paperwork together 00:56:00and I ran around quite a bit for that, and I did about thirty-five of those cases. So I was busy all the time and I was dealing with people who didn't want to be soldiers. Well, I got one more good story.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: Okay. We took over some of the people from the 7th Division, and they came up to me and said there was a guy being charged with, um, stealing ration books when it was still the 7th Division. And those ration books were, if you had people you knew there, you could get refrigerators and and stoves and everything like that and ration book. And, you know, I'll tell you another story that ties in, but they said we're prosecuting him. Well, I checked out and everybody that would witness was gone. So I didn't push the case knowing it was probably a pretty weak case. So the colonel called me in one day, the battalion 00:57:00commander, and said, What are you doing on this guy? I said, Well, I'm kind of busy, but I'm working on it. He says, You prosecute him right away. So we got the court marshal going. We charged him with stealing ration books and he pled guilty. Okay. And we discharge him dishonorably. Well, the story goes that he sold them to the Korean black market. And there was a contract Korean guy on the compound to get him. So, that guy wanted to leave real quick.

SPRAGUE: You didn't mention.

LARSON: Well, another story was, um. Okay. There was a university in Seoul called Yonsei University, and the Yonsei University was started by the Underwood that made the typewriters. His brother. So. They had a deal that during Thanksgiving you could go down and have Thanksgiving with an American couple. Well, the, Roger Langley and I went down to Seoul to our high school right 00:58:00outside of the university that this fella from Michigan, I forget his name, but he is a Presbyterian minister, missionary and his wife and two kids. And he taught at the high school, the American High School, and he had a commissary rights. And so we had America over Thanksgiving was part Korean and part American. And it was delicious. And he had a part time butler and a part time housemaid. And he, he had a part time chauffeur. Now, you did not drive a private vehicle in South Korea, because if he went someplace and parked it in the parking lot and left, it was gone in five seconds. So he had use of a vehicle and everything. And we had a good talk there and a great meal and it was very honored. I wish I would have kept his contacts, but he was a Presbyterian 00:59:00minister from, from Michigan.

SPRAGUE: And you said he started that Yonsei University. That's all.

LARSON: Yeah, well, Underwood's brother, that was the university next to Yonsei University. It was started by the Underwood typewriter's brother. That's what we were told. Quite a while before, of course.

SPRAGUE: So. Moving ahead, you at some point you end up leaving Korea. What did what can you tell me about that?

LARSON: Well, you got a five-month drop because at that time there were two combat areas in the world. South Korea, which just has a peace treaty, is still war going on and Vietnam. So when you're in a combat area, you got a five-month 01:00:00drop. If you were within five months of being discharged, you're to your duty. So I got to drop and I spent nineteen months and two days in the service. So, I was in a Camp Hovey when I left and my nice buddies gave me my party going away party the night I was going away. So, of course we drank all night 'til three in the morning, then at 3:30 in the morning, the CQ picked me up and took me to Camp Casey, where we stood in formation 'til six to go on a school bus to go down to Kimpo Air Base. And we went down there and then we had to wait. And at noon we flew out of Kimpo to Yokahama Air Base in Japan. And from there, we flew right straight over to Fort Lewis. And we we went further south because the 01:01:00pilots just pointed out and says we're flying over to Hawaii right now. So we got into Fort Lewis, Washington, in the morning and they came on the plane and said that we had to sit on the plane until a plane from Vietnam cleared customs. So we sat there for two hours. They wouldn't even leave us off the plane. So we got off the plane, went through customs, and then we got our ETS paperwork, our muster-out pay, and stuff like that. And they came up and said, You, you have the honor now and we're going to give you guys a steak dinner. Well, instead of the steak dinner, we were pissed by then and we went to the PX and got a hamburger. But then we flew out that night along about midnight we flew up to Minneapolis and my wife picked me up there. She was staying with her uncle and 01:02:00aunt up in the Twin Cities. And then from there, we went down 100 miles to my folks, and I stopped to see mom where she worked. And she came out in the reception area and mom wouldn't talk to me. Because she didn't want to cry. And so then we went, with my wife and I and daughter and my daughter stood between my wife and I because she didn't want, she was jealous of us. And so then we went and saw my dad and grandpa and Hanska, and after that, I went back and picked up Mom from work 13 miles away. We went to their place and we were 01:03:00shooting horseshoe in the backyard with Dad. And I looked down and the one steak was three steaks. I had two half-hour naps in three and a half days. And I couldn't see no more.

SPRAGUE: What was it like? You know, in those following days and getting out and coming back to the family, what was that like? Care to share?

LARSON: It was great. The only thing was at that time, you know, I. Here, my wife and I were back together and our daughter, and we're staying upstairs with 01:04:00her folks. And then we rented a house in town. And I tried to get a job, but since Vietnam was closing down, there was no work to be had. So that was really frustrating to put your time in. Also I might add that in the Minneapolis airport, you took your your, your class As off your suit coat, your sport jacket. You know what I mean? The top of your uniform. So. Yeah. Yeah. So your class A so you didn't get spit on.

SPRAGUE: So you actually took it off, huh?

LARSON: Oh, yes.

SPRAGUE: When you came back from Korea. What? What, what? You know, you've told me about your family. What were your impressions about, in general coming back to the States?

LARSON: Well, I can sum it up this way. Probably. After I was here for a few days, my wife and I went out to a theater. And I remember I got out. Yeah, I was 01:05:00in the service, you're used to going to a thirty-five or fifty cent meals. So I got out a lot more than that to buy tickets and that was not enough. So then I bought popcorn for my wife and I. And I got money for that, and that was not enough. That's when inflation really hit. So then when I was in college in Mankato, there was a bar called Embers Bar, nor I forget. Anyway, that had go-go dancers with bikinis on. We went over there for a few drinks and the. The dancer took off all her clothes. And I thought, "What the hell has gone wrong with the world? It's completely changed." Inflation, standards, everything.

SPRAGUE: So what? You're coming back to this different world. And what, how did that how did that transition go?

LARSON: Pretty good because I was only in for a year and a half. I finally got a job and a desk clerk and an order clerk at a small insulation company, which didn't pay as much as the service did. But it was a job. And I might add, during this time, I found out. See, all my work was legal work in the service. And what President Nixon did is he commuted all our bad action to the troops during the Vietnam era, from bad to good. So the stories I told you about these attempted murder guys and stuff like that. They were given an honorable discharge and they were given all the benefits the regular troops were. So we're talking today 01:07:00about Trump and the people, he's pardoning. Nixon when he went through the list of GIs that were not doing their job, pardoned more people than you can imagine. And I was glad it served. But I was pissed for forty years. And then I, my second cousin back, Laura Walker Dennis from the Twin Cities. He started riding, riding motorcycle trikes. And he joined a group. It's just started in 2004 up in Coon Rapids, Minnesota. And it was started by a guy by the name of Rocky Lynn. Now, Rocky Lynn was a recording artist. And one thing he did, he was an ex-Marine. And he went every year to Iraq and Afghanistan. But Ronal Olmsted asked him to write a song for the military. And he wrote the song, "Red, White 01:08:00and Blue." That's performed at every major military ceremony in the United States or in Washington, D.C., especially. So, in White Bear Lake, in one of his performances, they asked all of Vietnam veteran heroes, people to come back and be welcomed home. And He Ron wrote a song called "Home." And you can go on YouTube and, and, and listen to that. And that made it okay with me. Now I ride to support veterans, Christianity, and they make it easier for other people.

SPRAGUE: Are you good? You need a break?

LARSON: What's that? No, I'm good.

SPRAGUE: You're okay. Okay. Just checking. Let me know if you need a break. 01:09:00Okay. Help me out here. What? We're going to get to the motorcycling more and trikes. Tell me what, if you will? You leave. You know, you get back from Korea. You get back here. What? What did you do next?

LARSON: Well, I worked for a, um, that insulation company for a couple of years at their order desk, and they were going to be shutting down. So, I went to work in Mankato, Minnesota, at a soybean processing company called Honey Mead, and they were owned by co-ops. And it was a pretty big soybean processing company. They separated the soy meal from the soy oil. The soy meal usually went to cattle feed the soy oil went to all your cooking things. So I went into the 01:10:00traffic department. And what the traffic department did is all freight rates then were governed by the ICC, the Interstate Commerce Commission. And you, I was studying to be an ICC practitioner where you would go to really like court hearings on rights to haul product and, and charges and rates and things. So I was studying for eight years on that. And then what happened is the ICC was disbanded and it was taken over by the Department of Transportation and all the freight rates then were contract rates. So they didn't need me anymore in my training for eight years. So when I left there they wouldn't give much of a raise. So, I left there and then went to work for Altra Company in Davenport, Iowa. And I lived on the Illinois side, and I worked on the Iowa side and I started out as assistant manager, but finally I became manager of a trucking 01:11:00division. And we had rights. We hauled a lot of steel. We hauled a lot of aluminum for Alcoa in Bettendorf. And the company had barges and terminals, scrap terminals, barges and towboats. So me, it was usually me and the owner's son, a Robert Goldstein, got together and we set up hauling project him on the barges, termininaling it, me lining up the trucks and we hauled salt, coal and other bulk product like we got the contract to haul coal to the Iowa university, 01:12:00110-thousand ton and I think the salt road-clearing contracts was like 375-thousand ton and things were going real good for a while. But then like the story of my history, the whole Quad Cities, their main thing was producing farm machinery and the farmers were having real bad times in '80. So I couldn't make any money in the division, so I kind of had to leave. And then we, I moved to Wisconsin and the family. Lost a whole lot of money in the house, but I got hired then by Mindemann Trucking in Sussex, Wisconsin, in the office.

SPRAGUE: And just where did you move to Wisconsin?

LARSON: Yeah, we moved I moved from Andalusia, Illinois. Actually sold a house there. We moved in Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin. And I worked in Sussex, 01:13:00Wisconsin, for eighteen or twenty years. I worked for a family-owned business, Reuben and Rick Mindemann. And we had specialized equipment. We hauled a lot to the foundries. And I took care of hauling sand and salt and things and pneumatic containers on semis where you had to go to the customer hook up hoses and blow them through the product into their storage tanks. And I managed that division for years.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So tell me about getting involved in motorcycling.

LARSON: Well, I could add a couple more things about the family.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay. Go ahead.

LARSON: We would work eleven hours a day and then we would drink beer at night, like a lot of trucking companies. So, it was long days. And that's what everybody in the family and I did. But then it was my job to test drive driver applicants to see if they could drive good enough. And I shouldn't say this, but the test drive was to take somebody, put them in a driver in a semi and go downtown for a 12 pack of beer when it was time to quit working there. So, I always brought back a twelve pack.

SPRAGUE: Hey Terry, let's pause for a minute. Hold on.

LARSON: What's that?

SPRAGUE: Just pause for a moment. Hold on.

LARSON: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Break here. This is end of segment two with Terry Larson. This is Luke Sprague and Terry Larson. Again, 01:15:00this is segment three of his interview. And we are going to be restarting here by talking about he had some some stories he wanted to add about the family. Okay.

LARSON: Okay. One of the things I did was I would take driver applicants out on road tests to see if they were good enough to drive or not. Now, my boss then was Rick Mindemann and Rubin was in charge of the shop, the father, and Rick and I always made a joke out of it. If I took a guy out on a driving test, if he drove back, he was hired. If I had to drive back, he wasn't hired. But the driver test was always about 5:00 where we went to the liquor store to get a twelve pack of beer so we could drink after work. That was a driving test.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Anything else you need to add on that?

LARSON: Well, I learned to drive truck there. And if I didn't have a driver, that was suitable. I would dispatch, I would take the loads and things. So I got quite adept at driving and things. But that was only when I didn't do my job correctly, where I had to take a load.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about getting involved with motorcycling and, and also with the veterans, the tie-in there.

LARSON: Okay. I'm. After Mindemann sold out and I didn't have my job. I tried to get into selling real estate. I was late fifties, so I was hired by First Weber and what was called the Lake Country. A, you know, a pretty well set area with a 01:17:00lot of houses and cabins on lakes, pretty expensive area. And but it was in 2007 where the real estate market just hit its ruts. You know, this goes on and on and on about have to adapt. But I was working with XXXXXXX. And. He. I said I got to make some extra money. I've been making money here in this recession for real estate. So he says, I've got a. Second-hand car business dealership down in Lee's Summit, Missouri, right outside of Kansas City. And we aren't making any money, so we're going to cross over and buy motorcycles and sell parts. So he said your part would be to buy the wrecked motorcycles and we'll handle the rest. Well, the, his partner's name was XXXXXXX. And it took me about two weeks 01:18:00to find out XXXXXXXX was a big crook and what he was doing. I would buy a motorcycle and he would provide me with a copy of the title. But he said he had to keep the original copy, with the bike for law paper and he was doing that. But he did it for more than one person. So we turned them over to the FBI and we had grounds for that, but they weren't interested in white collar crime, so we couldn't prosecute them. Well, we just liquidated the business and brought all the motorcycle parts up to my place, up in Wisconsin. So I started putting motorcycles together. Well, all of them, after I got them done and I put together some pretty good motorcycles, had a salvage title, and when the buyers deducted for the title, that took your profit away. So then I decided, why not? Instead of fixing up a wreck, why not make a motorcycle trike from scratch? And 01:19:00I'm really, really, really proud of this. I put one together and trikes set level instead of on a kickstand, so they're harder to get on. So I invented a step on either side of a trike that you would get on to use to get on a seat where you would put your feet down on a two-wheeler. You didn't need that on a trike. So not only that, but I patented it and the patent I've got is a utility patent patenting the concept, not just a design patent, in which somebody could change seven-percent. Nobody can put a step on the side of a trike to help get on now, for 01:20:00years because of me. and I wanted to get a hold of Harley, which I'm still working on. So I built this trike and then I got it all operational and it was never a bike and never trike kit. It was all parts and things they made. And then I had Jason Mindemann, the Mindemann's son airbrush it, and I had Indian heads and horses and eagles and everything on this bike. And it was a cream kind of color and I put every kind of chrome we could think on it. So I wanted to get a hold of Harley. So I called up the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel newspaper, and I talked to Rick Barrett. Now, Rick Barrett was the editor in the business section, and he wrote about my bike and he said how it would help people ride. Now, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel was owned by U.S.A. News. So this article went all over the United States and beyond. So then I thought if they would 01:21:00write about it in papers, how about magazines? So American owned magazine, the biggest magazine motorcycle in the United States, was sponsoring a ride that summer from La Crosse to Saint Paul. So I went over and rode with them and I told them what I had and their editors were there and they said, a lot of people take new bikes, they have them airbrushed, scenes and everything, put all kinds of [inaudible], they're a dime a dozen. But I have never seen one homemade, completely homemade like yours. So they gave me four pages in a May-June issue of 2017 American Iron Garage featuring homebuilts in their magazine and in the start of the magazine, they called it a "Johnny Cash one piece at a time bike." And that got famous.

SPRAGUE: Johnny Cash one. One one piece at a time.

LARSON: Yes. Uh huh. Like his song. But I might add to something now. Last 01:22:00month, Harley Davidson puts out a magazine called a Harley Davidson enthusiast. And they give it to, tyhey send it to all Hog members, Harley Ownership Group, and they feature bike in there and they plagiarized the magazine article. They call their biker, Johnny Cash, one piece at a time.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Tell me, because I'm not a motorcycle guy, but I can picture it in my head. What makes your step how what makes it special in terms of the patent or the concept?

LARSON: The if you look at a Harley trike, the front floorboards that you put your feet on when you're riding are too far forward to really get on the bike decent. And then it's got passenger boards by the fenders in the back for the 01:23:00passenger to get on. Well, what Harley tells the driver to use the passenger board to get on and then move forward and then the passenger to get on. But invariably, that's right by the fenders, so they kick the fenders and the paint jobs are not cheap on these bikes. But I've got to step between them, that passenger or driver can get on in either order, don't matter and you don't kick the fender and you don't kick each other. You just step up higher, put your leg over the seat. And it really helps because the seat is high enough most people are not tall enough to put their leg over the seat from the ground. So they have to use a step. So it makes it very easy to get on. Plus, you've got another spot to put your feet on while you're riding. You can move around. And sometimes I stand up on it. When my behind, after a few hundred miles starts to itch so I 01:24:00can stand up. It's really convenient.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Makes sense. Tell me about what was the trike. You said in the pre-interview maybe that you had donated a track to the Wheels of Liberty or something like that.

LARSON: Well, probably I should start a little earlier.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, let's start a little earlier.

LARSON: Okay. Right after this ride, um, a guy by the name of Dave Zien when I read the Milwaukee article and endorsed my product and I had never met Dave Zien. So I called him up to thank him for saying it should work real good. And we decided to meet. But, I took another trike and I rode out to Pittsburgh for this mid step for the business end of it. And I rode back and then Dave called 01:25:00me and he said, "Well, I'm ready to go to Sturgis." They said, "Dave, I'm not like you. I'm not going to ride Pittsburgh one week and Sturgis the next week. I'm not going to do it. Too many miles for me." So we decided to meet La Crosse. So I started writing La Crosse and twenty miles east and La Crosse, Wisconsin, and a tow truck was picking up a Harley trike off the road. So then I got a motel and Dave Zien and his friend Doug and I met for breakfast the next day. Now, I could stop now and tell you about Dave Zien. Dave Zien was a U.S. Marine 01:26:00in Vietnam. And then for eighteen years he was a senator from Eau Claire to Madison. And he's got the second most documented miles of anybody in the world. He had a 1991 Harley, he put a million miles on. And Harley took it away from him and put it in in Sturgis Hall of Fame. They gave Dave Zien a 2009 Harley. 2011, he wrecked it in Tallahassee, Florida, about died and he lost his left leg. So now Dave has got to ride a trike, but he has got 2.9 million documented miles on a motorcycle. So, while we were having breakfast, a guy by the name of Gary Wetzel called Dave Zien. It was Gary Wetzel's bike, trike that they were picking up. And Gary Wetzel was riding from Milwaukee to Sturgis to be inducted into the Sturgis Hall of Fame. And he went to stretch out and he broke a peg off 01:27:00of his trike. And he had lost his left arm to a grenade in Vietnam. So he couldn't catch himself. So he went on the road 75 miles an hour. So we went to Gunderson Hospital in La Crosse, to visit Gary Wetzel, and he gave me a commemorative coin because Gary was a Medal of Honor recipient. He was honored by President Johnson. What Gary did was his helicopter. You can Google all of this. His helicopter was shot down. A grenade blew off his left arm and he took 01:28:00a machine gun and he saved many people's lives. He continued to fight. So I gave Gary Wetzel one of my steps to help him ride again.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, we we do have some of Gary Wetzel's stuff here and we also have him doing an interview and a recording down in the museum.

LARSON: Good.

SPRAGUE: So we we know about Gary. So.

LARSON: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And we appreciate his service as well. Very much so. So it was you, you went over and I was Dave with you then when you went over to the hospital in La Crosse to.

LARSON: Yeah. Dave and Doug. Doug Curran. And Dave. Dave Zien and I went to visit Gary in a hospital and he was all busted up and road rash and everything.

SPRAGUE: That was in what, year? 2011, you said. What year was.

LARSON: That? No, that was. Probably no. It was '17, 2017. So yeah. When they did all the operations on Gary, then Scott Walker. I should tell you that story. 01:29:00Scott Walker sent his helicopter and he flew Gary back to the V.A. in Milwaukee.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Quite a story.

LARSON: And so with that.

SPRAGUE: I'm sorry. Go ahead.

LARSON: Talking about Dave Zien again. He travels all over. But he got to know a gal by name of Uline. Up in Yellowknife, up in the Yukon. Uline is a native Eskimo? And she was in charge of the tribes there. And she was also in charge of all the Eskimo and Native American and native Canadian people, I guess, in Canada. So, when the Keystone Pipeline was being protested in North Dakota. 01:30:00Uline asked Dave Zien to go and make an unbiased opinion, evaluation of the protest. So, Dave Zien in December, rode his trike up to Cannonball, North Dakota, and I followed in the pickup and we went to the compound there and we investigated why the protest was actually happening on the pipeline. And what it turned out to be is that Warren Buffett was paying the protesters $15 an hour, 24 hours a day to protest because he owned the Union Pacific Railroad and he was having oil on his train. So we found out that and we suggested to President Trump that he make the Heritage Center for the Native Americans because, you 01:31:00know, they were, working for their rights and everything. Well, Trump never did that. In fact, that's why when he went and did a rally in the Black Hills, the Native Americans were protesting because they didn't like him.

SPRAGUE: You. You find that, um, working with these veterans and the motorcycling go together? Is there a connection there? Well.

LARSON: Well, I don't think sure, we're riding to support veterans, but I don't know how much of being a veteran has to do with it. I could also know that notice working with trucking that a lot of truck drivers rode motorcycles because they like the feeling of independence and power. And I think that's the connection, the independent part of it, and the power part of it. But. Yeah. 01:32:00What I started saying is if you're riding and you meet somebody, on the road on a bike. It takes about five minutes to make a friend and it takes about ten minutes to be friends for life.

SPRAGUE: What can you tell me about Wheels of Liberty?

LARSON: Well, Dave Zien started that. And, um, he goes around during Veterans Week, which is in November, and in May he rides for six days. He goes to all 01:33:00parks around Eau Claire, where there's veteran monuments and tribute to veterans and things. And you ride for six days to all of these places, and we go with a photographer and he makes a documentation of our ride. In 2017, we made a book of that kind of a tourist book. But yeah, we ride to all veterans things commemorating and giving tribute to veterans. The very special place is called the High Country in Marshfield, Wisconsin, and they have tribute to every war, in the high country. It's a very special place.

SPRAGUE: Do you think you might mean the High Ground?

LARSON: Yes, the high ground. Excuse me. Yep. You know. Yep.

SPRAGUE: West of Neillsville.

SPRAGU>E: Okay.

LARSON: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yep. I was there with my dad when they dedicated it. That's how I know.

LARSON: Great.

SPRAGUE: No, I know what you're talking about.

LARSON: Thank you for that.

SPRAGUE: Just helping you out there a little.

LARSON: Okay.

SPRAGUE: But. Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Did you donate that? One of your trikes to Wheels or Liberty or am I misunderstanding?

LARSON: Yes, the tractor. It's called "Johnny Cash, One piece at a time." Okay. I donated to the Wheels of Liberty, which I'm part of. So that trike is going to be taken to all motorcycle rallies this next year in the United States and beyond. So I'm going to have a lot of publicity over that one. It's the prettiest bike in the United States by far.

SPRAGUE: Interesting. Very interesting. Tell me about the dedication of the Patriots Park in Eau Claire.

LARSON: Well, you can actually still watch it if you Google W-E-A-U like in Wax, Echo, Alpha, Uniform, channel 13. Go to November sixth, 5 p.m., Veteran's Park dedication. So Dave Zien and I, and Bob Holloran dedicated a new park to veterans, and Dave Zien has made about twenty-five to thirty four-by-eight signs with writing on both sides, commemorating veterans, homefront heroes, everybody else supporting the country. He's also very instrumental in dedicating bridges and highways to wars and things. So yeah, we had the, that on November sixth and 01:36:00it was filmed and he unveiled four signs at the park and I dedicated my trike there and it's still on a trailer, but we are building a motorcycle museum at Bob Holloran's place, our own motorcycle museum. We're going to do that.

SPRAGUE: Okay, and that's up in Eau Claire, too, or somewhere else?

LARSON: Yes, right outside. Okay. Okay.

SPRAGUE: Where abouts outside of Eau Claire.

LARSON: Oh. Are you still there? I can't remember. It's right. So it's okay if if you go south on 53 and go west on 312. Mm. I can tell you. do you know where the 29 Pines restaurant, truck stop is at.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, it sounds very familiar. I know that area. That's why I'm asking.

LARSON: Well, this Bob Holloran's place is straight north of there, about a mile or two.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay, I'll find it. Okay. Tell me a little bit about this book that you've written or you are in the process of writing.

LARSON: Well, maybe I should interject something since we were talking about military before.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah, absolutely.

LARSON: While I was on the Zone for five months, they used Agent Orange in the 01:37:00DMZ. And now because of the Agent Orange that I was exposed to, I have type four stage terminal cancer. So, I'm trying to stretch it out, but I've got upper it's in my upper GI and my lungs and heart and things. So, I'm taking chemo for that, but we're trying to get by on that.

SPRAGUE: Anything, I know we talked about that in pre-interview and.

LARSON: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: Was there anything else, anything you want to share about that or are you good.

LARSON: Well, it's something that happened. Mhm. Yeah. Can't blame anybody.

SPRAGUE: It's interesting to me as a historian is I wasn't aware that Agent 01:38:00Orange had been used in Korea. I had to find that out.

LARSON: Well, you can Google that and then find the dates they even used it.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember any specific detail details or the spraying or the use of it or anything at all or?

LARSON: What's that? Oh, no, I never. I was real close to the Zone, but I never even went there to see the tents and things. Never went to Panmunjom, I was just there. But I know it's close enough to get it because that's where I got my cancer.

SPRAGUE: Sorry to hear that.

LARSON: Now. What were you leading to?

SPRAGUE: I was going to ask you. You had mentioned earlier in the pre-interview call that we had that you were in the process of ghostwriting, possibly a book 01:39:00or you had already.

LARSON: Oh, okay.

SPRAGUE: Can you tell me? Yeah. You're not ready to.

LARSON: Well, I'm working on that now. But one of the things the Veterans Week where we donated a bike, Bill Boyer is going to make a magazine on that and we're going to send the magazine to all veterans organization, all motorcycle area organizations and a lot of government organizations. And you'll be getting one. One copy, is going to go to Gary Sinise, who I've talked to, the Gary 01:40:00Sinise Foundation. For people who don't know, Gary Sinise is the Lieutenant Dan and his foundation for all the veterans who are handicapped, not all of them, but a lot of them, you know, go in and refurbish their houses to help them deal with the handicap. And he did he Gary Wetzel's house But my, the magazine will be going to Gary Sinise, his foundation and to Gary.

SPRAGUE: What you had also mentioned you at one point you were involved in competitive hunting or something like that?

LARSON: Well, yeah. And I had a friend in '96 that his girlfriend, who he married, had a dog who was a natural hunter. So we'd go to game farms where they 01:41:00had competitive hunting. And we would participate, where you had like twenty-five minutes to get four planted pheasants, so and so forth, and you got a point for your dog finding them. You had a point for flushing. Got a point for shooting them. And you got detrimental if you had to shoot twice or something. But we had this dog with me with Cody in 1996, we were the amateur flushing champions in the state of Wisconsin. Also for hunting, Mindemann Trucking when he sold out bought 10,000 acres in Montana. So for ten years, I went to Montana hunting elk and mule deer and antelope. And I've got. My room here in the house is full of horns and turkeys, feathers and stuff. But I was so fortunate that 01:42:00way. Now, earlier in Minnesota, I'd do walleye fishing, but moving to Wisconsin here I put a boat boat in Lake Michigan. So in Port Washington for fifteen years, I had a boat and my wife and I would go stay on the boat on the weekend and then she'd go home and friends would go fishing in Lake Michigan. And I had a really equipped and we caught a lot of fish, hunted a lot of deer, quite a lot of fish, shot turkeys. So I did everything I wanted to in that area and I was satisfied with it. So I don't need to go and visit there anymore. Now, I'm too weak to really walk around a lot, but I did it and I'm proud of that.

SPRAGUE: So thinking about your military service again, what do you think it meant for you to serve? What? What, what? What did it what does does it mean to you?

LARSON: I, I grew up in Hanska, Minnesota, a rural farm community, and we enjoyed the freedom not living in town. So my military service was promoting freedom. And it it did, it taught you discipline. It taught me the order of things. It taught you what you had to do to represent the company, the country, I should say. And I was very proud of that.

SPRAGUE: What? What do you feel? You've. What. What do you think about your experience? Well, um. You were in Korea. Do you feel any different about that or.

LARSON: The bad thing about Korea. It was good duty. Just like a regular job, 01:44:00you know, and things. But you saw the people in the villages and the orphans. You felt so sorry for them. And you can't do enough. They had a real bad life. They had nothing. to them. Being a prostitute and stealing property was an honor, they were so backward.

SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview?

LARSON: I probably Dave Zien, because I didn't know the correct context, but he said it would be good. And now I'm also writing this book that we're starting to talk about, that I'm going through a ghostwriter and all the material here I 01:45:00think is worthy of passing on the information. What I'm really trying to do , Luke step is going to inspire people to ride motorcycles longer. In the book, I'm trying to inspire people to do things even though they have unfortunate health situations or other situations or a handicap. I'm trying to inspire people, religiously, being a veteran, standing up for your country.

SPRAGUE: Is there anything that you'd like to cover that we haven't covered?

LARSON: Mm. I'm trying to be a good person. Or I can add one more thing. Okay. I'm sorry.

SPRAGUE: Go ahead.

LARSON: When I came back from Montana hunting in 2008. My wife, was not 01:46:00interested in anything. And so I took her to the doctor and she had brain cancer. So in November, no December 17th. She was admitted to Froedert Hospital in the twenty seconds. She had brain surgery. And after her brain surgery, she had a stroke so never walked again. So, after her treatments, she went to a nursing home for two months where she could get rehab and treatments. Chemo, chemotherapy and radiation. After that was done in two months, I brought her home and I took care of Elaine for fourteen months. Until a week before her death, alone.

SPRAGUE: That had to have been tough.

LARSON: Well, I thought I was doing a good job. But after she died, I found out that it tore me up.

SPRAGUE: Is there anything else that you'd like to share about your story?

LARSON: Well, I had the honor of rolling a truck on the freeway one day. If that's admissible.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

LARSON: I, you know, these dump trucks in Wisconsin, the big tires they have in front? Well, the one on the driver's side, I was east of Johnson Creek. It blew on me. So I was along for the ride. And it swerved me, I was in the right lane, it swerved me into the left lane, which had another quad. And we both went 01:48:00through the median and I was heading toward a little red car. I thought I was going to kill everybody in the car. So I crouched underneath the roof and used both hands to pull down the steering wheel and. I crossed it through oncoming traffic and went into the south ditch. On the passenger side. The other quad was in the driver's side and we crawled out, looked around, and everybody was okay. I got religion that day.

SPRAGUE: What year was that?

LARSON: That was in 2006. Now, the only other thing I can think about and we talked about this before, and I think I probably should. Can I add my Russian trip?

SPRAGUE: I'm fine with that. You had mentioned in the form that you didn't want to talk about that, but if you.

LARSON: Well, I didn't know, but I rethought that.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Well, tell us about your Russian trip and how. Okay. Service and stuff.

LARSON: There was a fellow by the name of Charlie Bechtel out of California. And Charlie had a band called Charlie Bechtel Band. And, um. He owned bikers, inner circle radio station, an underground radio station out of California. So actually he asked Dave Zien, out of Liberty. Well, I should start back a little bit. There's a fellow in Moscow, his name is Vladimir Rifkin. Now, Vladimir, Russian years ago rode around the world on a motorcycle. So he stopped by the 01:50:00Buffalo Chip at a campground in, Sturgis and he met up with Charlie Bechtel. So Charlie would use the bus card to perform. And so Charlie asked Dave Zien for people with real celebrity to make the trip to Moscow. I said, "Sure. I'll do that." So in June of 2017, I flew to Moscow and when I got to the airport in Moscow, there was nobody there. But what had happened is Vladimir Russian The day 01:51:00before fellow came from California, what we call Anders, the Swede. They got there the day before, and they went to a Russian museum to borrow a car to pick us up in the airport. Well, they borrowed a '66 Cadillac DeVille convertible to pick us up in the airport. But something happened the night before and they put it in a ditch. So, they were late in picking me up in the airport and I didn't know what to do. But then, got there and then there was Felicia Morgan, Felicia is an editor, used to be for the Thunder Press and Charlie Bechtel and Maurine Duncan, who was a deejay on Bikers Inner Circle. They came in a little later. So then we got Maurine Duncan and I, who had lost a leg on a horse accident, stayed at the Hilton Garden motel outside of Moscow, and everybody else stayed with Vladimir Russian. So then we went the next day and we were live on Russian radio. I think it was Rock FM 92.5. And Eugene was a disc jockey. We were live 01:52:00for an hour and a half on Russian radio. And what was real neat about that, my wife now, which was my fiance then, was on a cruise in the Bahamas with her kids, her son in law and daughter and two grandkids. And they picked me up in Moscow on Internet radio, were listening to me in the Bahamas. That was kind of neat. But yeah, we then we went and picked up rented motorcycles and we rode around. We went to Red Square and Red Red Square was closed that day because of they were honoring Stalin. But Vladimir, Russian talked to the KGB in the opened up the gates and we got to see Red Square. And this lady came up to me and says, 01:53:00I've got two kids. So I was in the United States for two years. I can speak English and will you take a picture with my kids? And I said, sure. And then all the kids that saw there came over by us. And I was teaching them how to give the peace signal in Red Square. I was pretty honored about that. But we had a good time because it was for their propaganda. And I don't want to go back because of that. No, the reason I bring that up, Vladimir Putin rides a Harley trike and he owns a bike club called the Night Wolves. And they're the biggest bike club in Europe. And they make their their club terminals out of army surplus material. Their main clubhouse was made out of a space sphere and stuff like that. So the president the, the Night Wolves fight with the army. And the president of the 01:54:00Night Wolve's name is Alexander something or other, but they call him the surgeon because he started out as a dentist. Well, now in this complex, they showed Obama that in 2015. But when the surgeon found out I built bikes, he took us to a fence where they make their props because they have a huge show every year with hundreds of thousands of people and they act out army scenes and bike scenes and it's really a well put-on show, the best I've ever seen. And the surgeon asked me back again for their August show. But you don't go 9500 miles to a show. Sure wish I could have gone, but I got to meet him. And it was an honor. And everybody says you're dealing with a Russian military person. Well, I said, "I'm a United States military person. We're honoring our country." That's 01:55:00how I look at that.

SPRAGUE: Well, I think on that note, Terry, I think that's a good spot to conclude the interview, if you're okay with that.

LARSON: Well, Luke, it's my honor.

SPRAGUE: It's been good.

LARSON: Really, my honor.

SPRAGUE: So we're going to go ahead and conclude the interview at this time.

[Interview Ends]