Oral History Interview with Andreé L. Griffin

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is September 30th, 2022. This is an interview with Andreé Griffin, who served in the United States Army Reserves from March 2010 to March 2018. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Jack Russell Memorial Library in Hartford, Wisconsin, for the I Am Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. In the interview room today is Tom Blumenberg, who is observing. Okay, Andreé, where did you grow up?

GRIFFIN: I grew up in Slinger, Wisconsin. We moved there when I was three. So that's now everything I remember from childhood. And my parents still live in Slinger now.

SPRAGUE: And what did your family do there?

GRIFFIN: Um, we lived right next to a farm. So, starting when I was five, I 00:01:00started going out to the farm, and it was it's a horse farm. So, I was learning how to ride, helping with hay. Most of my childhood was either spent there or, um, at the farm down the road. They had a horse therapy program. So, I was involved in therapy sessions with disabled children.

SPRAGUE: Anything else in particular that you remember growing up in in Slinger?

GRIFFIN: We have the racetrack in Slinger. So Sunday nights, sometimes we would go to the races or we were close enough that you could hear them from our house. You can hear the cars and hear the announcer and. It was. Um. Just kind of the 00:02:00country childhood that I remember.

SPRAGUE: And what schools did you go to?

GRIFFIN: Um, I went to Slinger high school. Um, I went to Peace Lutheran School in Hartford for, um, that's like middle school, sixth through eighth grade and then for elementary school I went to, I started in Slinger Elementary School, and then I went to David's Star in Jackson.

SPRAGUE: What made you think about joining the military?

GRIFFIN: I really didn't know what I wanted to do after high school. I knew that 00:03:00I couldn't afford college, didn't want to be super in debt. And the recruiters come into a high school and I was talking to them and I just decided it was something I could do. It really kind of took everybody by surprise, like nobody expected that out of me, but it was something different that I decided I could attempt and do and be good at.

SPRAGUE: Um, so your family was a little bit surprised?

GRIFFIN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Yes [laughs]. So were you 17 or 18 or 19 at the time?

GRIFFIN: So when I signed up, I was 17. I turned 18 two days before I went to Basic.

SPRAGUE: So did your parents have to sign your enlistment papers?

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What did they say?

GRIFFIN: Um, they were hesitant at first. Then they just kind of kept asking me, like, Are you sure you want to do this? Are you sure this is what you want to do? Like, you know, this is a big commitment. Yeah, I can do it. Like, I'm making the commitment. I'm going to go do it.

SPRAGUE: When you enlisted, did you know at the time when you enlisted that you were going into the Reserves or National Guard?

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell me a little bit about your thinking there.

GRIFFIN: Well, I knew part of my contract was going to be getting the G.I. Kicker [and Sarge??], so my plan was to, you know, go to basic and AIT [Advanced Individual Training] and then come home and be able to start college while I was still in the Reserves.

SPRAGUE: Help me out. I've been out of the Army for a while. What is the GI Kicker?

GRIFFIN: So it was something that started after 9/11 and it was an additional amount that they put onto your GI Bill. So, if I remember right, it was like there was options like [$]250 or 250 to 350, additionally, on top of the GI Bill, and it just depended upon, you know, the contract and which job you were going for.

SPRAGUE: When you entered and you enlisted for, into the Army, did you, did you 00:06:00know you were going for water treatment specialist?

GRIFFIN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Tell me your thinking there.

GRIFFIN: I really enjoyed science, chemistry, all sorts of you know, that field in high school. And that's what I talked to the recruiter about. Look, I think this is this is what I want was, a job that I can do that in. And, um, the water treatment was something where, you know, I'd still be out in the field, out, you know, doing stuff, getting my hands dirty, but incorporate, you know, some more it's higher-level science background into it.

SPRAGUE: Did you think as part of your enlistment that, you had mentioned being 00:07:00outside part of it, was that a part of something you were interested in? And that was part of that?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. I didn't want to sign up for like finance or something like that. I was looking for, you know, like I said, outside, out in the field type of job.

SPRAGUE: Um, so you get to basic training. Where was basic training at?

GRIFFIN: At Fort Jackson.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: North Carolina.

SPRAGUE: Tell me a little bit about that. The first 24 to 48 hours.

GRIFFIN: Not much sleep. I kind of remember, you know, you can go lay down for 30 minutes and, you know, show up here and show up there. Just kind of a whirlwind of not really knowing what's going on. Not, you know, knowing what to 00:08:00expect then coming off of, you know, the travel to get there and just kind of that whirlwind of where am I? What's going on ? You know, emotional of like leaving home and it's just.

SPRAGUE: So to the degree, what, relate to me a little bit about that experience of leaving home and this new place and that travel.

GRIFFIN: It was. I guess it was a big step for me. Like I didn't really go to, you know, like long summer camps or anything as a kid. I guess it was really the first time like I'd be away from home for any amount of time and. I had been on 00:09:00an airplane when I was, I want to say, like, 8. So I didn't really remember it. And so just, you know, going through the airport and, you know, getting dropped off by the recruiter and just. That was, you know, an emotional and a new experience.

SPRAGUE: So you get into basic training. What experiences that you have with your drill instructors that you remember?

GRIFFIN: I remember. Oh, I don't remember how exactly it came about, but, um, a 00:10:00couple of the other people in the platoon when we were doing our, um, obstacle course, you know, we were cheering each other on and they started calling me Andreé 3000, after the rapper. And so at the time, everybody was having a great time. And afterwards like, Oh, you guys are on a first name basis. You guys all think you're friends. And we got the shit smoked out of us for like an hour afterwards because we were using nicknames and. So it was hard. I hadn't really been in the southern half of the country and I was there for July and August. So. There's a lot of fire ants [Sprague laughs], like, scars for years 00:11:00afterwards. What happened to your hand? I'm like, Oh, that's those are fire ants from basic.

SPRAGUE: So for the Wisconsin viewers. Tell them a little bit about, having served myself in Georgia in that time frame, what it's like in July and August in South Carolina.

GRIFFIN: Most days it was 100 degrees by 9 or 10 a.m. and you went up from there. It didn't cool off much. Even the nights were probably at least in the eighties, it was just long- term heat. Nothing that we experience up here, even when it does get hot, it cools off at night, where you're just, it was always there.

SPRAGUE: You had talked about getting smoked. What does that mean for the civilians watching?

GRIFFIN: Physical. Workout, I guess, of some sort until you know, your muscles give out, you know, doing push-ups, burpees, planks. We would have to hold our M-16 out with our arms, straight elbows locked at shoulder length until we dropped it, and then we'd get smoked again for dropping it. And [laughs] just any sort of physical activity we could do until fatigue.

SPRAGUE: How do you remember feeling after you got, at graduation from basic?

GRIFFIN: I guess proud is, like this sucked, but look what I did.

SPRAGUE: And after basic, did you go immediately on to AIT or not?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, there was, I think like four days between my parents had come down for my basic graduation, and then they drove me to Virginia and went to Fort Lee, Virginia. So, we stopped for a day or two and had a sight see or 00:14:00whatever before I went to Virginia.

SPRAGUE: What was that like with your parents at basic graduation?

GRIFFIN: The. I guess you just got that sense off of them that, you know, like, wow, she did it. And, you know, obviously, like, they were proud and, um. Honestly, I think they kind of expected me to drop out or not finish or not that they ever said that out loud. But, you know, I think it was surprising to them that, you know, I went through with it. I went down there, I finished, I. I did it.

SPRAGUE: Okay, So you get to Fort Lee, Virginia. Tell me about the AIT and what that entails.

GRIFFIN: It was and there is quite a bit of classroom time. Um, we went through all the different water purification systems. Um. We started at the little list and worked our way up every, I'd say, couple of weeks. We spent like two weeks per system and, um. We worked together a lot. We, you know, the people that were catching on faster became sort of as many instructors for the people that weren't catching on as fast. They only team up and work through it and, you 00:16:00know, figure out where each other was getting stuck and. You know, we were a class, we were a team, and we brought everybody through. You know, there was a lot of, like, technical data to memorize, to know, to be able to pass the tests, to move on and. Now we all work together.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Backing up to both basic and AIT. Were the classes separated by gender or were they all together now at this time?

GRIFFIN: They were. Both of them were coed and they were all mixed.

SPRAGUE: Back at AIT. What was in terms of the training environment? Was it relaxed? Was it just as stringent as basic or what was your sense of that?

GRIFFIN: It was a lot more relaxed than basic. They didn't actually have drill instructors for that. Like [MOS??] area anymore. So. Like it was still strict, but nothing like basic strict. And you know, as we were there longer, you know, the the upper classes were had a little more lax standards than the beginning one. So, you know, eventually we were able to, in the last two weeks, we were able to go off base for the weekend and, you know, enjoy a little bit of freedom.

SPRAGUE: What was that like?

GRIFFIN: Um, it was very different. You know, I like I said, I hadn't really 00:18:00traveled much before that. So, I'm used to the people I hang out with, in, and, you know, Slinger, West Bend area. So just meeting these people from all over the country and um, you know, everybody has different backgrounds and ideas on what to do off base. And it was a little bit of a culture shock.

SPRAGUE: Can you tell me anything more about that, about that about that culture shock?

GRIFFIN: So my class graduated the week before Christmas, so we were there for a couple of weeks in December and it snowed. So obviously up here. Yeah, it was a quarter inch of snow. Like, who cares? Well, we were there with some guys from 00:19:00Puerto Rico who had never seen snow before. So, there's these 35-year-old guys like rolling around in the snow, like six-year olds. And it was so entertaining for some of us who are from up north. And it was, you know, how have you not seen snow?

SPRAGUE: Okay, so you graduate AIT. What happens next?

GRIFFIN: I came home. I enrolled in some classes at Moraine Park right away. And then I was drilling in the in a unit in Green Bay. So, I went up to drill up there.

SPRAGUE: And you talked about this a little bit during the interview. What was the name of that unit, the unit I.D.?

GRIFFIN: The 753rd Quartermaster Company.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, and you drilled with them for for how long?

GRIFFIN: So, I was there through, I think, January of 2013 is the first month I wasn't with them. So, 2011 and 12.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What is that like? I don't know because I was on active duty. So, what is it like to drill once a month, if I'm getting this right, and then two weeks in the year? Tell me about that.

GRIFFIN: So, it's rarely two weeks in the summer. It's usually about 21 to 28 days.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. Okay. I didn't know that.

GRIFFIN: So, it's. It's kind of like stepping into a whole, you know, different 00:21:00world for two days. You know, you have all your friends or coworkers or whoever that you see every week and they're like, Oh, what are you doing this weekend? Having a cookout. What are you doing? Oh, I have drill. Well, what are you doing after that? No, I have drill. I'm going to be there all week weekend. Like I'll be home at 6:00 Sunday night and you go up there and, you know, you see all your, the other soldiers, it's just like you guys haven't seen each other or haven't been apart like you. It's just, you know, same old friends and everything.

SPRAGUE: And, um, different reservists and Guard members have told me the relationship is different. So did you. Did you ever run into people while you 00:22:00were not at drill or at annual training in the civilian world? And how did you address them or how? Tell me about that.

GRIFFIN: That does get a little it. I guess it depends upon your relationship. Like if you see them every day, if you're you know, they civilian friends, then you more or less treat them like a civilian. But then obviously when you go to drill, you know it you respect their rank and everything else. And um, you know, if you're not as close, then, you know, you have that kind of reserve of, you know, oh, you know, your this rank. I need to treat you as such, even though we're, you know, hanging out in civilian location.

SPRAGUE: Had that unit had a, 753rd, had any deployments while you were there or before you were there that were recent in memory and in shape, the way people acted in that unit?

GRIFFIN: So the unit itself didn't. But certain members, whether they were part of different units or whatever, had deployed. So there was that you definitely kind of knew who deployed recently and who did it just because they had that or who also like who like just came out of active duty and, you know, is doing their, you know, like two years of drilling time. Like you could, you can see the difference and just how they acted, how they, you know, treated.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the differences?

GRIFFIN: But I want to say like a sense of urgency, Like, everybody had a sense of urgency, but. It's like. It's hard to explain.

SPRAGUE: Okay. That's okay. I'm just trying to do you here in movies and stories where people talk about soldiers who've deployed or at the front and come back and the new green soldiers or younger soldiers see these older veterans coming back. Usually they'll describe them as grizzled, or worn, or they'll have some word that they'll use. And I was just looking for a sense of that. Yeah. Okay. 00:25:00While you were there for your AIT, where was your annual training at and where did you go?

GRIFFIN: It's at Fort, Fort McCoy. You go down to Fort McCoy and that's a big fort for a lot of annual trainings, for a lot of different reserve centers than that other [MOS??]. So being water treatment. we would be, they had a certain lake that we could use to pull water out of, and we supplied all the water for showers and baths and filling up the water buffaloes for drinking. And so that was our part of the annual training is, supporting the other soldiers.

SPRAGUE: And without revealing anything classified, and roughly about if you can give me a range, how long did it take you to get set up to the point where I'm 00:26:00taking a shower or I'm drinking the water?

GRIFFIN: I mean. It took longer at like annual trainings because, you know, we were bringing the newer soldiers that never actually like set up for running and supporting this type of operation before. But we could theoretically be running, producing water in an hour.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. Okay. I didn't expect that. Wow.

GRIFFIN: I mean, that's, you know, hastily set up, probably needs, you know, some adjustments made. But we could get water running in probably that amount of time.

SPRAGUE: Huh. Okay. Well, that's way faster than I expected. I was going to say, 00:27:00like a day or two.

GRIFFIN: And like, for annual training, it would take closer to, like, a day or, and especially to be, you know, testing the water and have the water coming out at the exact levels that we want it to and everything. But, you know, moving in, trying to get water, you know, going could happen pretty hastily with, you know, the right crew.

SPRAGUE: So, when you were doing the annual training and setting up for this, did, did you start to see the, the squaring of what you were thinking you were going to do when you enlisted and what you were doing or not?

GRIFFIN: Um, I kind of realized already in AIT that it wasn't exactly what I thought I signed up for, but it wasn't, you know, a bad job either. Like, there definitely wasn't as much, you know, science per se, nerdy type stuff involved 00:28:00as I was led to believe there was. But, you know, it's still cool to be able to, you know, watch your levels as you're filtering and be testing water as it's coming out and, you know, testing the water in the lake and being able to make the right settings when you start running. So, you don't have to keep making adjustments if you, you know, can get the right settings the first time and have it coming out the way you want it.

SPRAGUE: Were there any other deployments with that unit? The oddball deployments that were not standard AT [Active Training]. Just curious.

GRIFFIN: Not deployments, but we did. It's called a water of ROWPU RODEO. So, it's reverse osmosis water purification unit. Reverse osmosis demonstrated 00:29:00efficiency objective. The Army likes acronyms.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. It does. And when you first said that during the pre-interview, I was like, rope. Rope you. And then I looked it up. And I'm glad you describe that for us. What? How many people are on a ROWPU team or are they teams or whatever?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, it's teams. I'm trying to remember if it was five or six. I want to say five.

SPRAGUE: Okay, and so why does, before we get into the meat and potatoes of this, why does the Army do the ROWPUs? Why do you think they do it?

GRIFFIN: Like the--

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: --competition?

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

GRIFFIN: I think just, you know, to build a little camaraderie, per say, within the MOS and to, you know, have something that's not, to have a little fun, just 00:30:00like they have the, you know, Best Warrior competitions and everything else. That's something that's specific to our MOS that, you know, demonstrates our knowledge and expertise in the subject.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, in researching what we're talking about today, I found a ROWPU photo from 2011, the year before, a Department of Defense photo with Specialist Sam Sisavath?

GRIFFIN: Mm hmm.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And you were there as well, pumping water out of the ocean, it looked like.

GRIFFIN: Yep.

SPRAGUE: What can you tell me about that?

GRIFFIN: So, it's ran off of the Air Force base that's connected to Fort Lee. So we're right on Virginia Beach. And so part of the ROWPU RODEO is taking the 3K 00:31:00System and setting it up on the beach and, you know, taking the hose out and so that we can bring in water and figuring out where it needs to be based on, you know, the sand at high tide and low tide and which team can get water, you know, from the ocean through the machine and start producing water the quickest and, you know, correctly, there is a, I don't want to call him a judge, but like an observer with each team and who, you know, stops and ask you questions along the way. So you have to not only know what to do, but why you're doing it and how to do it, and be able to answer the technical questions as well.

SPRAGUE: And so you are pumping water out of the ocean.

GRIFFIN: Yep.

SPRAGUE: And then which process could it go through? Was that reverse osmosis or something else?

GRIFFIN: So, there's a couple other filters that we have. Like first, just like the turbidity, you know, takes out the bigger particles and stuff. And then there's one other set of filters before it goes through the reverse osmosis, and then it goes through that. And then after the reverse osmosis is when we treat it, we add chlorine to cover any bacteria, and then it goes off to however we're storing it.

SPRAGUE: So, were you on the team in 2011?

GRIFFIN: I was yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So now let's go ahead to ROWPU 2012. Rodeo 2012. Tell me about that.

GRIFFIN: So that was the second year that I was part of it. There was a lot more 00:33:00teams that year, and they actually did it in two sections. So we were part of the group of teams that went on to the second half of the competition, and that was the year that we took first place.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about some of the teams you beat.

GRIFFIN: The one that stood out the most to us. There was a Special Forces team there that obviously this is their area of expertise. And, you know, the fact that we beat them out, you know, that was our bragging point for quite a while.

SPRAGUE: And how did you feel about that?

GRIFFIN: It was awesome to be part of that, to be able to be on a team that was that had that expertise and knowledge, especially being from a reserve unit. And, you know, this is our part time job. And you know, we still were ranked 00:34:00number one in the Army for our job.

SPRAGUE: One of the photos, did you, shows a person by the name of Sergeant Jason Palmer. Does that ring any bells?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, he was, he was my team leader initially when I got to that unit, and, um, he was in my platoon the whole time I was there. He was a really good sergeant. He really took the time to, you know, get to know every soldier and their, you know, strengths and weaknesses. And he was, you know, the person that picked me out, you know, a couple of months after I got out of AIT saying, Hey, we want you on this team, like.

SPRAGUE: Any other mentorship from Sergeant Palmer?

GRIFFIN: For, I mean, basic, most of my Army career, he was one of the people that was be always close to me, you know, give, offering me leadership advice. Even outside of the Army for when I was applying for different jobs. He gave me good references for job applications and is that it was a good mentorship.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so changing gears. Tell me about your decision to go to, I'm guessing to go to West Virginia, to go to college. Tell me, bridge me over there.

GRIFFIN: So, there was a very specific horse school. It was, I had went and 00:36:00viewed the facility and it was literally a big, a horse barn. And they had like looked like mobile home trailers almost for the dorms, like it was this low key, you wouldn't pick it out as a college if you drove by. But it's this internationally known college, people come over from England and Australia, you know, all over the world to come to this college.

SPRAGUE: What's the name of the college?

GRIFFIN: They, actually, have closed now, but it was called Meredith Manor. Okay. So, I had, you know, signed up to go there. And in 2011, not too long before I was supposed to go, I ended up breaking my collarbone. So, I called over and like, like, you know, I, I obviously can't ride. I can't, you know, do anything. So that we ruled out my start date until I think I was going to start 00:37:00in March of 2013. So, I had transferred to the unit in West Virginia already. So, I started going there in January. And I so I drove down there and got a hotel room for the night before because it was up almost a 12-hour drive to get down there. So, I show up for formation the first morning. They're like, You know, I have good news and I have bad news. Okay, well, we're not going to South America anymore. They were scheduled to deploy to South America, I think, in June. I'm like, Well, that's great. I came here to go to college, like not to deploy. And they're like, the bad news is we're going to Afghanistan. [??] there's the army changing my plans.

SPRAGUE: What, God, what did people look like when they got out of formation, 00:38:00broke formation.

GRIFFIN: I mean, like they they had all, we were already planning for a deployment, so, like, they were obviously not thrilled, but not that shocked, per se. But like, everybody's just kind of looking at me. I'm like, you you told us all before this that you came here for school. And what are you doing now? Well, I guess I'm not moving down here. That's for starters [laughs].

SPRAGUE: So. Yeah. So, yeah. Tell me about not moving down there, I guess.

GRIFFIN: Or so I know. Yeah. Uh, so we were leaving for, like, the pre-deployment stuff in September, so I wasn't going to, you know, get a house or an apartment or anything, and moved down there. So from January to and 00:39:00through August, I drove down there every month for drill.

SPRAGUE: Wow! Okay.

GRIFFIN: But I wasn't the craziest one coming to drill every month.

SPRAGUE: Who was the craziest?

GRIFFIN: There was somebody that was at the time living in Oregon.

SPRAGUE: Oh, my gosh.

GRIFFIN: And they were flying to drill every month. They're like, We have the two crazies in our company.

SPRAGUE: Wow. So, you were coming up. well, not all the way across country, but a large portion of it, as was this other person to attend, to go to drill. And then because you've been activated for this, but if you hadn't been in the unit, you would have never, that wouldn't have happened to you, would it.

GRIFFIN: Yep.

SPRAGUE: So, what do you say to yourself at that point? I mean, like.

GRIFFIN: I was, I mean, upset about it for a while because it was, you know, this huge thing that I went through to, you know, get accepted to go to school 00:40:00and get a start date and, you know, I had to put down the down payment and everything. And, you know, because I had orders, they were, you know, willing to refund my down payment and all that. So, like, that wasn't a concern, but it was still just this, you know, the whole mindset of like I was getting ready to move down here and go to school and that all got changed and.

SPRAGUE: How did that make you think about changing what you thought about the military in general? Oh, that's something like that could happen.

GRIFFIN: I mean, I guess I always knew it was a possibility, like, you know. Yeah, it sucks for timing for my life. But like, I was in the military, like, that's the point of the military is to deploy if they need you. So, like, yeah, it sucked. And I was pissed-off for a little bit, but like, well, you know, I can always come back and go to school. Like, I signed up for this.

SPRAGUE: And what was the name of the unit?

GRIFFIN: So, it was 779 Engineering Company.

SPRAGUE: And which platoon?

GRIFFIN: I believe, 2nd Platoon.

SPRAGUE: And that was in Parkersburg, West Virginia?

GRIFFIN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, during your monthly drills, I'm assuming you're you're prepping for your deployment.

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Like full tilt. What? Tell tell the civilian listeners what that's like and what you were doing doing during that time to get ready. Not just on a personal level. On a unit level as well.

GRIFFIN: Um, you know, there's a lot of classroom training, a lot of, just different classes and stuff goes with the drilling every month and going to, you 00:42:00know, our annual training in summer is one thing, but, actually, you know, going to a deployment, especially in a combat zone, is a completely different thing. And, you know, just getting everybody on the same page and everybody prepared and doing all the health background, making sure everybody is, you know, cleared to go over there and making sure all, you know, everybody's finances are on track. And, um. Well, I with all the legal stuff, you have to have a will done and your power of attorney and, people with children had to have those documents in place. And it's just a lot of different things to cover. And, you know, two 00:43:00days every month.

SPRAGUE: How about in terms of did you have to prepare equipment pallets or CONEXs or or not, or how did that go?

GRIFFIN: Not a lot that I can recall. Obviously, there was some equipment, but from what I'm remembering, I don't remember having to do a lot of that in preparation.

SPRAGUE: Okay, So, tell me about leaving the United States or leaving for. Did you do training in front of your deployment?

GRIFFIN: Yes, we did.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that first.

GRIFFIN: Um, I believe it was about eight weeks, a little less. So, in September, we went to Mississippi for training. And, you know, I covered all 00:44:00the. As much as I could, you know, anything you might encounter while you're overseas in, you know, a country where they don't like us, and, well, it's a combat zone. You know, they try to cover as much as possible of, you know, what do you do if this happens? What do you do if, you know, the Afghans act this way. And, also, oh, you know, [core stuff??] you know, their rights, their, you know, traditions, their religion that, you know, we're not, to the best of our abilities, disrespecting them or their religion. And, you know, try not to give them a reason to hate us anymore, at least.

SPRAGUE: Where was that? Mississippi.

GRIFFIN: I can't recall.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: Camp Shelby?

SPRAGUE: That sounds right.

GRIFFIN: Okay. Yeah. That's--

SPRAGUE: Okay. I'm just curious, that's all. That's not, you know--so any, do, you know, the last couple of hours, last couple of days in the States--what was that like?

GRIFFIN: Um. Just, I guess, kind of trying to make the most of it. And, you know, we had a couple down days, so, you know, a few of those, just kind of hung out and made the most of, you know, being here before leaving. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What what were some of the, you know, if you don't mind sharing, what were some of your, you know, your thoughts before going? Oh, what, you know--

GRIFFIN: Kind of a, what the hell did I get myself into [both laugh]? Like, is this really happening? Like, it, you know, just. Yeah. You know, you you kind of know what you signed up for, but, you know, that's kind of when reality hits you of, like, shit, I'm, you know, going over there. Like this is. This is real, you know, because up to that time, you know, you go through all these different scenarios and training and like, yeah, you know this. But now it's not just, you 00:47:00know, pretend, it's not, you know, they're actually going to shoot back at you this time, like, or at least have the possibility of it.

SPRAGUE: How did you, how did you and your unit deploy from, I would [bet??] from Camp Shelby or from where--

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Where did you fly out of and how did that, how did that--

GRIFFIN: I believe it was out of Camp Shelby.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And was it commercial? Was it a MAC [Military Airlift Command] flight? What, how did, you how did you get there?

GRIFFIN: It was a commercial plane that we took to one of the nearby countries. 00:48:00I don't remember which one offhand, but we went to a nearby country for a couple of days and then we took a military plane from there into Afghanistan.

SPRAGUE: And where did you land in Afghanistan?

GRIFFIN: We went into Bagram Air Force Base.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did you stay at Bagram or did you go another place?

GRIFFIN: So, Bagram was kind of like our home base. And then we went out like at platoon level to different, uh, smaller bases.

SPRAGUE: About how often did you get back to Bagram as your home base, if there was any particular frequency?

GRIFFIN: We were there a lot. We were also doing a lot of missions on Bagram 00:49:00itself, being a heavy equipment construction company. We were doing a lot of rebuilding on Bagram because we had been there for over ten years at that point. So, there was a lot of things that were hastily set up to begin with that we were, you know, rebuilding, making safer. One of our big projects there was the ammo protection point. We rebuilt all the berms and pretty much rebuilt the whole ammo supply point. We made it safer. The ammo was more protected and--

SPRAGUE: And what was your role in moving, you know, moving those berms and setting that up?

GRIFFIN: So, there was one area that they were taking them down and they had 00:50:00local nationals that were cleared that--so there was quite a few local nationals on the base that were working for us. And so they had on--More or less looked up like armored X, looked like armored up X-ray gear, and they had like a helmet on and they were going around with a metal detector because there was mines in the original dirt that was used to make the berms. So they were walking around finding mines. And every once in a while, like off in the distance, you'd hear a boom, like a small boom. You're like, Oh I guess he didn't find that one first.

SPRAGUE: Wow. So, let me make sure I understand correctly. These were local nationals?

GRIFFIN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Who were, had on armored gear or or EOD equipment, maybe, or.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Something like--

SPRAGUE: And they were walking around with mine detectors. X ray equipment.

GRIFFIN: From. Yeah. From my understanding, like, we didn't work with them or anything, but that's, that was for my understanding. Yes.

SPRAGUE: And was their job, I assume, to get the dirt, the dirt cleared before?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, before we would use the dirt to rebuild.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What kind of equipment did you use?

GRIFFIN: Um, pretty much any construction equipment you can think of. We had bulldozers, excavators, graders, dump trucks. Oh. Loaders. Rollers, like the sheepsfoot. Can I think of anything else? You know, like a little smaller. We 00:52:00had, like, the backhoe loaders, the--

SPRAGUE: Okay. What what was your role with that equipment?

GRIFFIN: Um, so I was an operator. Yeah. And we'd all take turns operating different equipment. And then I also, I [??] back in our camp, I would keep control of all the maintenance records and everything for our platoon's equipment. You keep track of, like, what you, you know, maintenance or what repairs needed to be done, has been done, knowing what equipment's ready to go out for that day or what, you know, couldn't be taken out?

SPRAGUE: This may seem like a dumb question, but did you? And I'm just going to 00:53:00ask it. Did you have to go back through AIT again in order to become qualified, or how did that training work?

GRIFFIN: It wasn't actual AIT, but they called it a reclassification class. So, it was all soldiers that were just changing jobs. So, it wasn't like, it didn't incorporate any of like the initial training that AIT did. So that was. It's only a month or two before we left for Camp Shelby. It was, until late July timeframe and out in California.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember which camp or fort?

GRIFFIN: I. I want to say Fort Hunter Liggett, but I'm not sure because we did 00:54:00AIT out there as well. So, I'm not sure if that was where AIT was or if that's where the reclass was.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, help me out here, get it going. You know, you're you're a reserve soldier. Now, the 77th Engineer Company. That was a National Guard unit, wasn't it?

GRIFFIN: Reserve.

SPRAGUE: Reserve unit?

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And then how did you, if you had a civilian job, how did you you know, you had to. How did that work?

GRIFFIN: So, I was selling KOKO at the time, so it's a kitchen knife brand. And so I kind of made my own schedule, you know, set up appointments and stuff. So I 00:55:00just I did that when I could. And the weekends I was home, I was helping out my aunt. Sometimes she had a bar that I would work at and, um, I gave horse lessons, so I didn't really have like a 9 to 5 or anything job at that time. So, it was definitely a lot harder for the people that did go into, you know, all these different classes and everything, but.

SPRAGUE: Did your unit bring its own equipment or was it already there or a combination of the two?

GRIFFIN: [Pause] I don't recall if we took any of our own.

SPRAGUE: Okay, that's fine.

GRIFFIN: I. I know that there was definitely some there, and, um, part of, like, near the end, we did get some of it ready to ship back home, but I don't recall if we or what we would have brought initially.

SPRAGUE: So, let's go back to your your mission. You're talking about deconstruction and demolition, changing things around. And I'm going to ask you some there more a little bit backed up questions initially, but do you remember the CMRE [Materiel Recovery Element] patch on your left shoulder [??] the CENTCOM material recovery effort [laughs]? Is that, does that have any meaning to you or not or not? Go ahead. I'm sorry.

GRIFFIN: Yep. You're fine. That was who we were working under. It didn't. I 00:57:00don't think we were given like the full breadth of what the big mission was, or if we were, I don't recall it.

SPRAGUE: In that this was OEF [Operation Enduring Freedom] 13, is that correct or not?

GRIFFIN: 13 through 14. We got there in, we got there like the week of Thanksgiving.

SPRAGUE: Indeed. And these are more administrative questions, but it helps pinpoint you and your unit's location. Do you remember, with your company, what battalion, you reported to by chance?

GRIFFIN: I do not.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Do you remember? Yeah. What I have. Here's what I have for the 00:58:00779. I've got 'em reporting to 133rd Engineer Battalion as part of the 82nd Sustainment Brigade. Does that ring any bells or not?

GRIFFIN: They sound familiar, but I can't confirm if they were correct for sure.

SPRAGUE: And what do you remember? This might point to it a little bit. For your patch, for your left, for your unit patch. Do you remember what that was? [pause] It's okay.

GRIFFIN: I should, but I can't recall it right now.

SPRAGUE: And then it would become your right patch after you left the theater. So. Yeah. So the reason why I ask is because 82nd Sustainment Brigade at that point was separate. It had its own brigade patch. And that's why I was asking, 00:59:00because it's a, it's a little different. It's unique. So that would also become your later that would become your combat badge. That's why I'm asking, because I'm curious, because I'm trying to figure out where you were. Okay. But that isn't that central. So, you talked about the ammo supply point redesign, local nationals with the mine detectors. Did you do any fortification of the airfield or anything like that?

GRIFFIN: Not like outer wall fortification. No.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What other things happened at Bagram that stick out in your head while you were there?

GRIFFIN: Um, so like there was this area, it was right off of our motor pool 01:00:00that we were we were leveling out and pushing dirt over over the edge pretty much to flatten everything out. And there were times doing that where, you know, you push it off to the edge and you go to stop and you can see the edge between your, the tracks and your blade. And it's like, you know, [both laugh] it's like you really hope that wall of dirt is not going to give in because you're in a couple thousand pounds of armored bulldozer and you don't really want to tumble over in that.

SPRAGUE: Nope. Did any of the heavy equipment, and I assume they had air conditioning, or not?

GRIFFIN: Yeah, from what I can remember, it didn't always work.

SPRAGUE: But how did you do it when it didn't work? I mean.

GRIFFIN: Drink water.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about drinking water. How much water did you drink for?

GRIFFIN: As much as you could. I mean it. Yeah. I mean, you had your camel back that holds between a half gallon and a gallon of water, and you're filling that a couple times a day. So, you're sweating all the time over the year, so you're drinking a lot of water [laughs].

SPRAGUE: And what's it like being in the, that heat?

GRIFFIN: Um, I mean, like, it sucked, but eventually you kind of get used to it. I mean, it's your job. It's what you're there to do. It's like, you're there to sweat [laughs]. So, yeah, I mean, it was definitely hot, was--

SPRAGUE: Do you think you ever got used to it, though, really?

GRIFFIN: Coming home a couple months before winter I think I got more used to it than I thought I did. Because coming back to Wisconsin winters sucked [laughs].

SPRAGUE: It was too cold?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah. Really Like, you know, you're used to being so hot and even being there in December, January, like their version of winter wasn't that cold. You were still like, twenties, thirties and coming home to a nice Wisconsin winter was. I don't want to go outside. You guys do it [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um. So, I'm going to just mention some camps and FOBs [forward operating base]. And if they ring a bell, let me know. Any experiences you might 01:03:00have had with them and we'll let the train keep going by while we're talking. [train horn and rumble] So of those rebuilt projects, does Camp Marmal ring any bells?

GRIFFIN: I don't believe so.

SPRAGUE: FOB Ghazni?

GRIFFIN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What can you tell me about that?

GRIFFIN: I believe one of our other platoons was out there. I know we, I don't remember much about it, but.

SPRAGUE: How about Camp Dyer. Dwyer. Dyer.

GRIFFIN: It it sounds familiar but it.

SPRAGUE: How about in terms of a typical day? What was if there was a typical day, what was it?

GRIFFIN: I mean, in the morning we'd go down to the motor pool. We'll figure what equipment we need to take out for the day. And, um. You know, we get the. You know, have our morning meeting over, you know, what our expectations are and, you know, send out groups wherever we needed and.

SPRAGUE: Was that usually by a platoon or by a squad or by?

GRIFFIN: By a platoon.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: And then sometimes, like, if not many people were needed, sometimes 01:05:00we'd break off by squads for certain jobs, but.

SPRAGUE: How how did you handle security away from the base? How was that handled? Like, let's say you needed to go to another location and work. How did you do that?

GRIFFIN: So, we had a convoy out to a different base, and, um, that just you don't get set up at that base then and went work from there, you know, set up for, say, a mini camp and.

SPRAGUE: Did you do your own security, did another unit do your security? Was it not necessary?

GRIFFIN: No, the convoy that I was part of, we convoyed out with another group. 01:06:00So, we tag-teamed everything as far as security. And they had been on base longer, so they had more experience with convoys. So they were kind of teaching us the ropes and. Now we work together.

SPRAGUE: Any experiences that happened while on those convoys that you're okay with talking about?

GRIFFIN: Um. Not on the convoy I was part of. No.

SPRAGUE: Other convoys?

GRIFFIN: Not not that I knew of or anything.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. Um, while you were at any of these posts, any mortar 01:07:00shellings or anything like that or?

GRIFFIN: Um, so when we were working on the ammo supply point, we were trying to, you know, to meet timelines. And so we had one platoon working day shift and then we were working night shift and. Couple nights in, we were getting set up for the night and we had a mortar attack and me and one other guy were up by the trucks and there was a concrete blockade. Maybe 20 feet from us, and it landed right behind that blockade. So that took, you know, some of the impact from us. But we were still, you know, pretty damn close.

SPRAGUE: What did what? What were you thinking after that?

GRIFFIN: Initially, nothing. It just. It puts you into that reactive mode, you know, like, that's what all those hours of training is for, so that, you know, you don't think, you just do and. I remember this kind of like having troubles, like, you know, the sergeant was, like, backing us up so we weren't running into each other. We all had to get the vehicles out of there. And like, I remember, like, if he's going like this. And I'm like, how do I turn the wheel to go that way? Like, just. Not fully there per se, but.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the other locations that you may have worked at that stick out in your mind that may not have been at Bagram?

GRIFFIN: I personally had only went to one other location. I can't recall the name of it, but some of our other platoons went out to more areas.

SPRAGUE: When you went out to that one outstation, what were the living conditions like?

GRIFFIN: They weren't bad. Like they were definitely. And they had--I don't want to say long term building. But, um. I can't think of the name of them, but more 01:10:00or less like, I guess kind of along the line of trailers per say, the, you know, they were set up decently.

SPRAGUE: And what what other experiences that you have in theater that you'd be okay with sharing?

GRIFFIN: Um, [pause] I don't know if there's--

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: Anything. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay, No problem. Um, who are some of the memorable people in your, while you were there that stick out in your head?

GRIFFIN: Um. The biggest one that stands out was my squad leader. It was Staff Sergeant Maston. He had been a marine for quite a few years and then came to the. I don't know if he came straight into the Army Reserves. I don't quite recall. But he was kind of one of those old crusty sergeants [both laugh] that, you know, had been there, done that. But he was also, you know, there for his soldiers. And he you know, he cared about making sure you were okay, too. Like 01:12:00he kind of had the mindset of, I've been there, done that. Let me help you be there now. And he was a good mentor.

SPRAGUE: Just for the record. Do you remember how to spell Maston?

GRIFFIN: Um, M-A-S-T-O-N.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Got it. Thank you.

GRIFFIN: Can we take a quick break?

SPRAGUE: Sure. This is Luke, we're ending or ending segment one here with Andreé Griffin.

[Interview Segment Ends] [Next Segment Begins]

SPRAGUE: This begins segment two with Andreé Griffin and Luke Sprague for the I Am Not Invisible Project. We had just finished talking, Andreé and I did, about, we were talking about Staff Sergeant Maston, and I'm going to ask her a few more questions about Afghanistan and hopefully she'll answer them for us. Um, what was the ratio of men to women in your unit? What was that like?

GRIFFIN: It was definitely low. There was maybe two women per platoon. But yeah, I mean, being, you know, heavy equipment. It's, you know, not a women-heavy job.

SPRAGUE: And what was that like being one of those two out of the forty, roughly?

GRIFFIN: I mean, for the most part, you know, we treated each other like soldiers. It wasn't a, you know, Oh she can't do that. She's a woman. It's, you know, we're all in this together. We're, you know, we're not men and women. We're soldiers. And.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And at this point, did you, what what rank or grade were you?

GRIFFIN: I was a E-4. I got my E-5 while we're deployed.

SPRAGUE: Okay. When you got your E-5, did they up your responsibility or how, what did or what happened there?

GRIFFIN: Um [Pause].

SPRAGUE: Or maybe there wasn't enough time in theater or.

GRIFFIN: Yeah, it was near the end of the time, near there. So not much really change. And we already had our, you know, training command and everything and there wasn't much point in changing that.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hm. What did you do in your downtime in Afghanistan, if you had any?

GRIFFIN: We watched movies when there was time. There was a pool hall that was 01:15:00part of the, like under our area. So, we played pool. They had a couple of computers there. Try to talk to people back home if you could and--

SPRAGUE: What's an MWR for the civilians who are watching it?

GRIFFIN: Good question. Morale, welfare and relaxation area.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, I think it's recreation.

GRIFFIN: Recreation.

SPRAGUE: But that could be right. Yeah. Okay. Um, a little bit about this. What was it like being away from family and friends?

GRIFFIN: Oh, it it was definitely hard, especially getting there, you know, right before Thanksgiving, being there for Christmas. And, um, you know, we tried to make the best of it. Um, one night that we had free one of the 01:16:00sergeants dressed up as Santa Claus, and we took pictures with our M-16 sitting on Santa's lap.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Okay. Huh? So what in particular? What was. Yeah, What else. What else was. Tell me. Tell me a little bit more about being out at Christmas time, and being deployed, if you would?

GRIFFIN: You know, I mean, I. I mean, you think of everything that's going on back home and, like, Christmas is one of those times where you see family that you don't see a lot. So, you know, and being there and it's, you know, was it about an eight-hour time difference? So you don't necessarily have downtime, you know, the time that everybody else is getting together and being, it it sucks, 01:17:00like, you know, it's not, what, obviously, you know, nobody would choose that. But, like I said, we distracted each other from it. We tried to, like I said, make the best of it. Like, you know, we're our family for this year. And.

SPRAGUE: Did you have mail call?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What was that like?

GRIFFIN: It was. I guess like really low key. But we, you know, it was always exciting to, you know, get something and like, oh, so and so's wife's really good at baking this and, you know, they'd send over home baked, you know, 01:18:00desserts or, you know, different things. And it was, you know, that little taste of back home that was exciting.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Tell me about the sensation about getting that stuff from home and what what that's like when you're deployed.

GRIFFIN: It's just. It's a little, like I said, it's just that little sense of back home, a little like a break from your current reality, I guess.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, any other experiences that you'd like to share with Afghanistan? That I may have missed.

GRIFFIN: [voice in background] I don't believe so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Good important question. Tell me about what it was like to come back to the United States after being deployed.

GRIFFIN: Um. I mean, initially just the relief. Like, you don't realize how stressed you are until, like, your feet hit U.S. soil and you kind of, like, feel like you took that rucksack off and. Just kind of a sense of, you know, you made it. We all made it. [background voice]

SPRAGUE: Let's go ahead and pause the interview at this time.

[Interview Segment Ends] [Next Segment Begins]

SPRAGUE: This is Luke, with the I Am Not Invisible program for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum. This is segment three. I'm restarting. And again, the interview 01:20:00with Andreé Griffin. Andreé, we were talking about the very important question about coming back to the United States after being deployed. If you could continue on please, that would be great.

GRIFFIN: Like I said, there is this actual, this like, sense of relief. And we went to [Radio??] New Jersey for demo. So just sort of that excitement of like slowly getting closer to like, I get to see my family again, I get to actually go home and, just, you know, then actually being able to go home and just go like one of the big things for me was, you know, getting on a horse again and like going for a ride and just like, you know, I haven't done this in so long, 01:21:00and kind of reconnecting with the civilian side again.

SPRAGUE: What was it like to get back with your family?

GRIFFIN: Um, emotional. It was obviously, really, you know, happy, excited to see everyone. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Did you find yourself reacting differently based upon having served in a combat zone to certain things in the civilian world?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. I mean, I think initially everybody, you know, you're still on guard. You're still, you know, expecting, you know, something around the corner 01:22:00and, um, but not having, you know, a really like rough deployment compared to some people that, you know, that fades, and you kind of slowly, your brain, your brain accepts that you're in a safe place again.

SPRAGUE: And you came back to the United States when?

GRIFFIN: It would have been August 14th.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And when you're talking about demo, what is that for the civilians in the room? What do you, give them a little nutshell about what that is.

GRIFFIN: You you know, you come back, you turn in your gear, you go through like 01:23:00a health screening and just kind of a super-basic class like you're okay to be back. You know, a couple classes and stuff like that. Just a quick briefing per say to come home.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And just to back up a little bit, how were you communicating with your family and friends and partners back in the States during your time in Afghanistan?

GRIFFIN: Um. So, we had gotten these, they they called them like Roshan phones there, you know, phones from the country that we could buy minutes for, you 01:24:00know, similar to like old-time cell phones. And so, you know, we could call home and otherwise. And the MWR area had a couple of computers that you could go use and [??] your time and figuring out the time difference and not calling at, you know, two in the morning or something [Sprague laughs].

SPRAGUE: What, what, during the pre-interview, you talked a little bit about your experience in Afghanistan, and you said you wouldn't have you wouldn't have given it up. You wouldn't have traded it for the world. What, can you expand on that a little bit more on?

GRIFFIN: Yeah. I mean, like it was. But, you know, it was a crappy time, and but 01:25:00the experience and just to be able to experience being in the other side of the world and, you know, we didn't see a ton of the, you know, we didn't travel in the country much. We didn't see a ton of it. But just seeing, you know, a different way of life, and the different religion and having, you know, that experience of leaving home. And I think [background voice], you know, having a second family with, you know, you know, there's people from all over the country and it's, you know, something you don't get anywhere else. And I think, you know, it is a big part of, you know, who I am today and. Yeah. If I had to go back, I mean, I would do it again. [background voice]

SPRAGUE: Okay, so you get back to the States, you get back to New Jersey, you go through demo, then what happens? Did you, tell me about your military--What, What happened after that?

GRIFFIN: So I transferred back up to my Green Bay unit back, back into water purification. I started going to drill up here as an E-5.

SPRAGUE: Did you end up going to PLDC [Primary Leadership Development Course] or PL,whatever it's called now?

GRIFFIN: Um, so I had a few months after I had gotten home I got pregnant with my son.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: So, I was, you know, I couldn't go because of that. And then I came up on my six-year mark not too long after he was born and decided to get out and, 01:27:00you know, be there for him. My unit up there was looking at a deployment, and I didn't want to leave him, you know, at six months old or so. So that was modified. I decided to get out and go inactive for my last two years.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What, uh, what were your thoughts, bringing us up to today, withwhat happened last year in August of 2021 in Afghanistan?

GRIFFIN: I mean it was tough to see it end like that, and it's not my position to say, you know, how it should have been handled. But I know a lot of people 01:28:00that had a lot more skin in that game than I did. And it was hard for to watch.

SPRAGUE: Um, backing up a little bit too. Did you want to talk at all about how, with your with your son and how that involved your career, your military career or not, or how that worked out?

GRIFFIN: Um.

SPRAGUE: Are you good or bad or--

GRIFFIN: I mean, I think I covered it.

SPRAGUE: Um-hm. Okay.

GRIFFIN: I mean, he was, if I didn't have him, I think I might have stayed in.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

GRIFFIN: I, like I said, I made that decision that based on I didn't want to--

SPRAGUE: Right.

GRIFFIN: Be leaving him when he was young.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Um, when you got out, when you finally did leave the military, what what did that, what did that feel like? What was that about? You know.

GRIFFIN: Um, there was a little bit of mixed emotions, like it was, definitely there was part of that, like, you know, like I'm done, and all like, you know, I did my time, and, you know, but then, you know, so a lot of people I know are still in, and there's that little bit of, you know, you're kind of leaving your family and--

SPRAGUE: You mentioned, you said it right there, leaving your family, your military family.

GRIFFIN: Mm-hm.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Um, any impressions of the civilian world after being deployed 01:30:00and coming back, versus what your life was like in the military world, in terms of work?

GRIFFIN: I guess what you're meaning?

SPRAGUE: Impressions of civilians and their, and their work behavior or work ethic versus in the military?

GRIFFIN: Um, I mean, it definitely doesn't apply to everybody, but you can, you know, definitely pick out that, like what's going on now is like the millennial work effort [both laugh], which I struggle to say because, like, technically I'm a millennial, but it's just that you know, this is my job. I'm not going to do any--you know, I'm not going to put forth any extra effort. Im, you know, whether I'm done or not. Um, you know, I'm going home now. And just that, um. 01:31:00Yeah. It's works, looked at differently but I think at the same time, like, you know, going through, like that's part of basic and all your training and stuff is, you know, you're, you're here for this job, not, you know, this time frame.

SPRAGUE: And what are your, what are your thoughts, we're coming up on it soon, on Veterans Day and Memorial Day?

GRIFFIN: Um. Um. I mean, I think it's great that, you know, there is a day that people stop and, you know, take the time to think about that and, you know, I 01:32:00think it's, it's especially, like, Memorial Day that it's more I don't want to say like a celebration, but it's, you know, you think of, like, cookouts and. I mean, I look at it not necessarily displaying our freedom, but like, that's what soldiers fight for. So that's what you should be able to enjoy on those type of days. Take, take the time to remember the fallen and be thankful for them and enjoy what they fought for.

SPRAGUE: Do you continue any of your relationships or friendships with people 01:33:00you served with?

GRIFFIN: Um. A couple, yeah. I have a friend. He is in Alabama. He's somebody I met while we were deployed. He wasn't actually in my unit. He was just in our battalion. Yeah, we still talk every day. He's one of my closest friends. And, um, the other person that I'm really close with is, he was in the maintenance section of our company, and we still talk all the time and keep in touch. Um, in 01:34:002020 my friend actually came up from Alabama and spent a week here, and we, you know, kind of hung out a little, like, per say, Wisconsin tour. And then last November, I went down there and kind of did the same thing in Alabama, like it's been almost, you know, what is it, seven years since we've seen each other? Like, we should actually do this. And we had talked about it for a while and we're like, Hey, let's actually do it! So that was really cool to just be able to actually, like, get together.

SPRAGUE: Cool. Any involvement with veterans organizations?

GRIFFIN: Um, I started, um, going through the Vet Center and, um, I had went on 01:35:00a dog sledding trip that there was a veterans dog sledding trip up at, um, Voyager Outward Bound up in the Boundary Waters. That was a really cool experience. Like I said, it was. It was. They broke us down into, like, groups of eight, and it was all sponsored through the Vet Center that we took, like, packed the dog sled and went and camped for three days and in the middle of Minnesota [both laugh].

SPRAGUE: And which vet center was this out of?

GRIFFIN: The Milwaukee Vet Center.

SPRAGUE: Okay, cool.

GRIFFIN: And then the other organization that I've become more as involved with 01:36:00is Sheep Dog, because they're based in their home base in Arkansas and they have chapters, I think, through most of the states now, but they're like, um, puppies constantly evolving their group and they're a really good, um, resource for veterans. And their motto is, you know, get off the couch. And they do like these mini, they call them Outdoor Adventures or like they do. Um, I went on one in July and like, we went mountain biking and went, we went up to this fishery and they, you know, did a little like mini, um, fly fishing tutorial and we went out on a boat and we had like a day at the lake and went. Not for like ATV 01:37:00riding and just kind of get veterans, you know, to dump their feet and dip their toes into all these different ideas of like, look, you can still do things and be involved after you get out and have, you know, like a second mountain to climb.

SPRAGUE: And that's called Sheep Dog.

GRIFFIN: Yeah. Actually--

SPRAGUE: Oh, yeah. Let's make sure we get that for the camera. Sheep Dog. There you go.

GRIFFIN: Sheep Dog Impact Assistance.

SPRAGUE: Nice.

GRIFFIN: So you work with veterans and also first responders and police.

SPRAGUE: Very cool. Nice Um, so how do you think your life has changed? If you hadn't been in the military, who would you--

GRIFFIN: I really don't know. I mean if I hadn't joined the military I probably would have went off to UW-Oshkosh and did the college route, but I didn't really know what I wanted to go for. I don't really know, like it's really shaped and determined where my life has gone.

SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview?

GRIFFIN: Initially, I was intrigued. You know, I had gotten the email. I'm like, Oh, what? Like, what is this? And so, like, I was kind of thinking about it. And 01:39:00then I had went into the Vet Center for something and they were talking about it. And, you know, they were just really pushing, like, hey, you know, we're looking for anybody that, you know, is able to make it to this time. Like, you know, why wouldn't you go? Like, why not? And, you know, um. Talking to more people at the initial event. Like, I think it's a great outlook to, you know, spotlight women veterans. And I forget who I was talking to, but there's a, you know, like in a group of men, you know, in the first 10 minutes who was in the military and who wasn't. And you take a group of women and that's never going to get brought up. And, you know, they, it's not something that's put forth as part 01:40:00of your life, part of, you know, who you are.

SPRAGUE: What do you what do you think about that?

GRIFFIN: And I think a lot of it comes from, you know, gender expectations and, you know, just roles that, you know, males versus females take on, you're especially once you start a family and, you know, kids are in school and stuff, you know, moms are talking about, oh, what what's your kid doing? What you know, how are you doing this? And you're not, you're not generally focused on, per say, who you are and what you've done you're working on, you know, who you're 01:41:00taking care of, who you are, what you're doing now, not what you've done before.

SPRAGUE: Um. Did you do, did we miss anything during the interview that you'd like to cover?

GRIFFIN: I don't believe so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, then. Thank you for your service. We're going to conclude the interview.

GRIFFIN: Okay.