Oral History Interview with Michele A. Rathke

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is November 16th, 2022. This is an interview with Michele Ann Rathke, who served in the United States Air Force from January 20th, 1987, to February 1st, 2007. Michelle entered the service, as Michele Ann Clune. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Northwoods Veterans Post in Merrill, Wisconsin, for the I Am Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the room. Okay, Michelle.

RATHKE: Okay. [Laughter]

SPRAGUE: Where did you grow up?

RATHKE: I grew up in a little town called New Knoxville, Ohio, on a dairy farm. We had about approximately 110 head of milking cows, and when I was a junior in high school, I decided I wanted to not be on the farm anymore and not work in 00:01:00the factory. So, what were my options? College or military? So, I chose to go into the military.

SPRAGUE: And did your family just dairy farmers or more in addition to dairy farming, or?

RATHKE: Well, it was dairy farm. Of course, to feed the cows you got to have the hay, the grain, and there was some crops, corn and soybeans, that kind of thing. Just your typical dairy farm of Ohio.

SPRAGUE: And what schools did you go to?

RATHKE: Well, I went to New Knoxville High School, again in New Knoxville, Ohio, as it is. I graduated with 29 people in my class. And though this wasn't a private school, it was a public school. And we did have two exchange students. One was from Sweden, and one was from Mexico. So technically there was only 27 of us. Um, I was in sports heavily. I was in volleyball for a year. Cross 00:02:00country, three years, basketball, four years, track all four years and was with the FHA as it used to be called the Future Homemakers of America. I don't know if that even exist anymore. I know the FFA does, but that was one of my biggest strong suits. And then the 4-H also and growing up.

SPRAGUE: So, I happen to be from that area. What does the FHA, what were some of their activities?

RATHKE: We, we learned to how to shop correctly, I guess was one of the biggest things. You would go and figure out how many ounces were in a let's say, a bottle of soap. And was this the more advantageous way to purchase something. 00:03:00That was one of the things. Of course, cooking and sewing. Basically, how to run a household also. I think that helped in a lot of ways with once I did get in the service too, because you have to, you have to watch about every little time when you're in the service. So that was very helpful when you'd go to the commissary and see the sticker price and go, okay, which is, which is better. So that was some. And then we would do some fundraising efforts for Easter, making candy for the local places and and Buckeyes was the big thing that we we would make, peanut butter balls and dip it in the chocolate. One of my favorites still to this day. So, um, and we would have competitions all the way up to the state level also back in those days and remember going to Columbus, Ohio, for the 00:04:00competition with five or six of us. And we had to show our skills of how we spoke. And again, doing the economical shopping thing was also included in that.

SPRAGUE: What, what made you started thinking about joining the military?

RATHKE: Well, that one's a real tough one, but, um, I was dating this gentleman in high school, and he, unfortunately, died in a car train accident. And we had things all set up for marriage after I would graduate, I guess. And, so, the, um, when, when the accident took place, I was like, all right, now I got to get serious. Uh, he's no longer around. And I went to my mom and told her that I did want to go in the service, and she went to a guidance counselor at school, a 00:05:00neighboring school. There we go. And he goes, well, if Michelle wants to go in the Army, if she likes to camp, go in the Army. If she likes to swim, go in the Navy. If she wants to look good in a uniform, go in the Marines. If she wants to be treated like a lady, go in the Air Force. So that was the biggest reasons why I chose the Air Force was based on that little summary from this guidance counselor that had no clue of what the military really was like. But yeah, so he died in April of '85, and then I went to end up with a recruiter in that November of '85, and it took a little bit of time to get into the service, but I persevered through that. There was a medical condition that they discovered, but the doctor came online and said that that was not a reason to disqualify me. So. 00:06:00And then once I got to basic training, that was a whole 'nother story.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, tell me a little bit. Did you, did your family have a history with the military or?

RATHKE: Yes, there is quite a bit of family history. Let's see. Let's start off with my grandfather, which is my mom on my mom's side of the family. He was in World War Two. He was over in Japan helping clean up after the, um, after the atomic bomb was shot off. And I would say he was probably the real reason I joined the service, because I wanted him to be just that much more proud of me. My dad was in the Army. I have lots of uncles that were in, of course they were, some of them were drafted. I know my dad was drafted also. And then the other two uncles, I think they just chose to go in because it was after the Vietnam 00:07:00era. And then, of course, as before I met my husband. But there is a strong military side on his side also. But for mine, yes, it's definitely a tradition for the military. But out of 55 cousins on my dad's side, I'm the only one. So, I don't know how that happened. But I guess I do have a cousin that is a civilian in the in the DOD. But I understand he is pretty equivalent ranked. So you're almost, kind of count him, I guess, out of the one, two of us that when in the service. But he never went through basic training or boot camp. So that doesn't count I don't think.

SPRAGUE: If you wouldn't mind, do you, would you mind sharing your grandfather's name with us?

RATHKE: His name is Vincent [Arntrup??]. Actually, it's Vincent Bernard [Arntrup??], and he was in the Army and. He was with the PACAF [Air Forces 00:08:00Pacific] Army over there. I did quite extensive research later on in life, when I became the State Commander for the VFW, to help commemorate him in my time of my service with the VFW. But yeah, very, very good guy.

SPRAGUE: And then you said also your father was in?

RATHKE: My father was also in. John Albert Clune. Um, he served as a. Uh, ammo person is from what I understand. He was in the reserves. Also went over to Kor--or not Korea, Vietnam for a brief moment. Basically, from what he says, he landed. They landed. And then about three days later, they left because the war was ending. So.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: Um, but he did have his chance over there. I guess that was enough. And then he came home. It was out of Fort Knox, Kentucky. And his claim to fame is that he got to drive around the major. And right before he finished of his time, he was the major's whipping boy, as he called it [laughs]. So.

SPRAGUE: So, what did your--what was your family's reaction to your joining?

RATHKE: Interesting. Um, my dad, when I brought home the papers after the recruiter typed them all up, he goes, make sure you bring these back. Cause I literally sat there and watched them type it up, and this was on an electric typewriter. So, it wasn't done with the computer world, as we know today. And my dad, it was in November, like I said, and he opened up the buck stove, through 00:10:00the paperwork into the fire. Luckily, I got it out of there before it totally engulfed. And my enlistment contract has some [Sprague laughs] burn marks. My very first enlistment. Um, and it's funny, when I went to go back to look at it, not just too recently, I was like, You almost can remember that day of Dad going, why do you want to go in the service [throwing noise] and throw it in the fire [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: But after I got in, after I was accepted to MEPS [Military Entrancing Processing Station] and all that, they were they were happy for me. And it was it was quite quite a travel for them also. And I can speak about that in a little bit.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So, tell me about going to basic training.

RATHKE: Basic training. I left Ohio on January 19th, 1987, and we flew from 00:11:00Cincinnati, Ohio, to San Antonio Airport, landed there, and back then my parents were able to walk me to the where the I was actually getting on the plane and to say bye to me. And I don't think I cried that hard in my life because I thought I was never coming back to them. But lo and behold, you know, you always get to return home, most of the time. We get to San Antonio. Of course, they start yelling at you and it's like 11:30 at night. And, uh, we were the first to arrive, from what I understand, or what I can remember, but there was a flight that was delayed. They got in at 3:00. So of course, all of us had to get up at 3:00 in the morning and go through the whole ritual with everybody of pick 'em 00:12:00up, dropping them done, put them up. All this, all that yelling that goes on the first couple of nights. Um. Basic training was, uh, was not the easiest, but I was the youngest in my flight. Um, so the thing that I can remember, we went to a budget class, and the 25-year olds after this budget class are like, this is I've been on my own for many years, and I'm like, hey, that budget class was just done because of myself. And anyways, it was just kind of ironic to hear what they how they felt in comparison for me, just being off of my mom's apron strings, as I used to really say. And, yeah, that is just one of those things, they had to have, you know, several years into the civilian world where I was just straight out of high school and left the farm and so forth. So. Basic 00:13:00training. The physical aspect, aspect was not tough whatsoever for me. Growing up on the farm, so I was okay. But the girls that grew up in the city, they had a hard time with the mile and a half, and I think we had to do 25 sit-ups and 50 pushups I think a day. And some of them weren't able to to manage that. And then when we got to the obstacle course, I tried to integrate with the guys like that was with us--our brother flight--I guess is what we call it, and which was good because they were going across and the ropes weren't getting wet. Well, when the females all started showing up, the ropes were getting wet. Everybody was falling off the ropes, 'cause we were doing the monkey swing and so on and so forth. And it is ironic, the guys were very helpful. I think they were helpful 00:14:00to get you that little nudge up so you can grab that bar or whatever it was. The girls are like, tough luck [both laugh]. So, the memories that I experience were, you know, what everybody tells us about. And I know the Air Force isn't that tough on you and when you go to basic training. But it was it was a challenge. And I would recommend anybody that's physically able or mentally able to, to go into the service if if they have that capability.

SPRAGUE: What was it like being exposed to people from all over the country?

RATHKE: Interesting. Yes. So, when you're in this, in the service, in basic training, you get a person that's called your bed buddy or bunk buddy, I guess 00:15:00is what it was called. And mine happened to be a young lady. Her last name was Butler, and she was from Illinois. Black girl. And I had had no interactions besides going to a mall to like J.C. Penney's or someplace like that, dealing and having an interaction with a black person. She was the very first person that I ever had had full contact with, and I explained it to her, and she was very, very acceptable to it because, like I said, it was a small little town. We did have a black family, but that black family was on the poor side. And so that was a different aspect to see that there is actually black people that have life set up for them in a good way. And yeah, she she helped me understand what a, 00:16:00you know, we're all the same basically is what it comes down to. It it just it was a definite, a different change. Um, there was a few girls from California that I can't remember, and they had that Barbie girl attitude, they suffered through basic training with that. And I think it was because they were trying to get them just to be on a normal keel with all of us. And the one girl was blond, very tan. And like I said, this was in January, so everybody else was pale white. They came from the north. And yeah, it's, it's a different culture too. It is a neat culture if you if you sit and listen to the people.

SPRAGUE: About how many people are in a flight?

RATHKE: I want to say there's 52 of us. That's what recollects from back in those days.

SPRAGUE: So, were there different flights for men and women or how would that work?

RATHKE: So, my time was when they were starting to integrate. And what I mean by integrate is we would have classes gathering where our classes were with our brother flight or would go on the range to shoot with them and, and so forth. In the past it was all females. Everything was just females, and then the males. So during my time it was a whole new level of, okay, we were in class together. Of course, some of the notes started being slipped from one guy to the other girl and so forth. And not only that the dormitory area had them on the other side of 00:18:00the door, if you want to call it. Not that we were able to open that door, but notes got slid underneath the doors because they knew that they were part of that flight and so forth. And I look at it, you know, when you're in the in a combat area, you're you all have to get along. It's it doesn't matter if you're a male or female or, or of a different gender as things have been changing. But you got to know each other, that you're there to protect each other.

SPRAGUE: Okay. But what was the uniform at that time?

RATHKE: Oh, yes. We were in green fatigues yet, that was the big, kind of, we were the end of the green fatigues, 'cause then my sister, my baby sister flight, as we call it, they were introduced to the BDUs [Battle Dress Uniform], 00:19:00they they were in BDUs. So, we had the green fatigues still yet. And of course, the, we still had the pumpkin hats, as they call them. They were just, I probably have a picture somewhere. Actually, I think it's my basic training picture. You have it on there. It's a, it looks like a bowl and it just looks like something plopped on the top of your head. But now it's just a regular flight cap that we wear. And I think they still have a ceremonial cap that's still out there. But yeah, it's just kind of weird how uniforms can change from one year to the next. But so, when I say baby flight, so we went and we started in January, our baby flight would have started at the end of February. So, they all started getting the battle dress uniforms that a lot of people know us as of today. So.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the grooming standards at the time?

RATHKE: You had to keep your hair above your collar. Um. I remember when I went in, I had my hair cut short, um, and everybody had to go and get their hair cut. I think the second or third day, so I got my hair cut again and my TI [Training Instructor] came back to me and says, do not get your hair cut. It is short enough. You almost look like a guy. And I was like, well, they told me I had to get your haircut at your five, six-week mark you could go amongst the base and, and do different things and, you know, go, go to the beauty shop and stuff. She's like, you better not get your hair cut any shorter than what it is. And if you do, you're going to get recycled. So, of course, I didn't. But over, over time, I did let my hair grow out because it was just easier to manage. I put it 00:21:00up in a ponytail, braid it, whatever, however I wore it back in those days. But yeah, it's just, oh, I can remember some of the girls that came in with their hair past their hips and them trying to pin it up. And you can only have so many inches. It was three inches in bulk, I remember. Right. But yeah.

SPRAGUE: So. Did you. You received honor graduate, didn't you?

RATHKE: I graduated, yes--

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that?

RATHKE: Yes. I graduate is, you know, oh, geez, really testing my brain now. [Sprague laughs] I graduate--You had to score a certain level on your test and everything that they scored you on had to be in the higher end of for basic 00:22:00training. And yeah, that's what I can remember of it. And then you also have the Honor, Honor flights. So you have like four or five of us, flights, that is. And there's a competition to see which one can have the best inspections of the locker and stuff. It was a team effort while you're there to help everybody cut those, those little strings that you could get demerits on. Um, so you go and help everybody out. It's it taught you the team concept is what really it came down to it.

SPRAGUE: Anything else that you remember about basic?

RATHKE: The chance to go downtown right before you graduate. That was that was 00:23:00an experience in itself. And of course, I got I was able to be stationed back at San Antonio. So I got to go back and see all the the good things, so we can get into that you after.

SPRAGUE: So you had mentioned something about your parents, maybe. Did they come down for basic graduation or?

RATHKE: No, they did not. What that's about is my son went through basic training in 2011 and we all went down there. And my mom, uh, after I got back from tapping my son out, because they, they stand there until the [??] goes and taps them out. And when I got back, my mom was just in tears and I was like, Hey, you're crying. She's like, Well, how long did you have to stay on there? Because we weren't there to tap you out And I'm like, Mom, after so long, they 00:24:00let us go. And she's like, Oh, I wish I would have known that. I would have been there. It's like, it's okay. Because back then it was more of your parents that were in the service. They came and were there to watch the, the parade and the graduation and so forth. And so it was kind of neat to have them there to experience what I experienced, of course, back then it wasn't a showcase like it is now. Now it's a it's a show. I would say it's kind of cool to see. Uh, it's definitely a recruiting tool, maybe is more what it really comes down to, because when we went through the parade field and marched through and stuff, they would say, Our flight, da, da, da, what we won. And then we were done. Well, there they would wait and let the parents come and pick them out of the crowd, and then the rest of them would march off. So it's definitely a different 00:25:00concept that they have from back in '87 to 2011. I'm pretty sure it was '11. I'd have to double check that this. Trying to think. Wait, no. Sorry. 2012. 2012. Because we graduated in 2011. And so I guess it just goes to show that they do change the concepts of how basic training and graduating takes place.

SPRAGUE: That's called the tapping out ceremony?

RATHKE: Tapping out ceremony [nods].

SPRAGUE: Okay. And you got. You get done with basic March, April?

RATHKE: I would have finished at the end of March.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And then you go on for additional training?

RATHKE: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Tell us about that, if you would.

RATHKE: That was at Keesler Air Force Base. So they took us to the airport and we flew out of San Antonio to New Orleans. And then from New Orleans, they bused us to Keesler Air Force Base. The reason for that was because Keesler does not have. Well, at that time, they didn't have a big airport for people to come and go from. So we all moved out, I want to say there was about five buses of. Uh, you know, people from my brother flight, sister flight Then we went to Keesler. So. Keesler Air Force Base in Mississippi. They have the administrative world, which used to be called 702, and then they had personnel. And then my career field, which was personal affairs. Um. Which was a very small career field in 00:27:00comparison to most. Um, and we were known as Pop Tarts. So you had the different versions of, of how long you were there. So you had from pop tarts to burnt toast. Burnt Toast was somebody that was there for six months or longer. Um, because when you get to Keesler, or to your tech school, the first week, you get a little bit of freedom and then the second week and so forth. As long as you don't mess it up, because they don't want to give it to you right away. Um, the different little freedoms and I'm talking like, you know, walking around on base with, uh, civilian clothing. That kind of stuff. Or going downtown. So it changed from each week. If I really thought about it, how it all worked out. But 00:28:00the fourth week is when you could go off base. You could stay at a hotel, have fun with your friends. And so, like I said, my schooling was only six weeks long, so. And then I was into the regular world, because most of my, my career field at that time, you had to do a lot of it on, on the job training because personal affairs dealt with, um, casualty notification, casualty assistance, survivor benefit plan. Um, that's the insurance world of trying to sell the military and their spouse. So if the military person passes away, the retirement check stops. And then that came in, if they took the program it will keep going at whatever percentage they took it out. And then you had the Service[members] Group Life Insurance, the Emergency Data card, any awards and decorations that 00:29:00somebody that was at that particular base, we would process those and get them into the system for them. Yeah, let's see. What else did we do? Oh, we had what is called the Air Force Aid Society, which most people probably would know as quick relief fund or or unmet needs in the world nowadays. And if you were, you know, if you had an emergency and you got short on rent or your house payment or food, you'd come in, kind of gave your story. And then, uh, depending on what the situation was, then we could grant up to so much money for food and then it would be a no interest loan paid back to, um, to the Air Force Aid Society. And you get the Navy Relief, and then you got the Army Relief Society so that each 00:30:00service has their own. And then one other thing is, if anybody wanted to come on to the base to sell anything, they would have to come to our office to explain what they were selling and why they were selling it. And then we would step it up to the base commander. The base commander would say yea or nay. And then, uh, most of the times it was like the USAA bank, some kind of insurance that is beneficial to a military person. And it was just easier access for them to just come on to the base and then we would approve or disapprove. Then there's the, um, uh, what do they call those, uh, congressional complaints or actions. I shouldn't say complaints. Actions. Um, if there was somebody that put into their 00:31:00congressman something that happened at whatever base I was at, then they would send it to that base and we would do the research to find out where it needed to go. And then we would track it, because these things had to be, uh, minimum on the base of five days. So they were pretty. That's why sometimes if you go to your congressman to get an answer, you're going to get an answer [laughs]. Whether it's the answer you want or not is another story. But that was all that career field. And then that career field merged into personnel, which is the first part of this question was the one for the career field of tech school, which was at Keesler. So. And so that's my first career field.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: Personal Affairs.

SPRAGUE: Why did you pick Personal Affairs?

RATHKE: Actually, the Air Force picked it for me, and it was a well fit for me. 00:32:00I'm definitely one of those people that don't like, what do you call it? Same thing every day. Um, that that career field was definitely a career field that it was something different every day. And it was neat because you knew everybody almost that were at every other base that was in your career field. There was usually maybe five of us at that base. So yeah, it was a small, a very small career field, and that's why they had to merge it with personnel because they were we were losing a lot of good people because we weren't able to make rank as quick as some of our fellow, uh, you know, people that we went into the service with. So, um, I will save that that, that part for the rank stuff [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Okay. And uh, what was the MOS number on there?

RATHKE: That was 732X1.

SPRAGUE: [whispers] X1. Okay.

RATHKE: Yeah. It's tricky. If you go look in the histories, um, not many people can find it anymore. It's not even, uh. Oh, if you do, um, what do you call it? A resume search. Um, when you go through the TAPs [Transition Assistance Program?] class. Yeah, it was a name that you can't even find it anymore.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Uh, anything specific stick out as a fun time or a good time while at Advanced Training? And what does the Air Force call it? Does the Air Force call it advanced training?

RATHKE: We call it technical training.

SPRAGUE: Technical training. Okay.

RATHKE: That's what we call it. Anything that stands out? Um, I would say just that that one particular, uh, weekend that I actually went off base and was able to stay in a hotel and we were just able to live it up a little bit and it was nothing, uh, of such, um, now going back there for my seven level course, which 00:34:00was later on in the, the service, now that's a whole 'nother [inaudible]. [both laugh]

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you get done with the technical training. What happens to you next? Where do you go next?

RATHKE: Okay, so everybody, we put in our dream sheets. I think that's what everybody calls it, even in the different services. And, um, I had put basically everything north. Um, northern tier. Wright-Patterson. Scott. Indiana. Michigan. Yeah. I get the orders back to Kelly Air Force Base, San Antonio, Texas, and my captain calls me and he goes, "So how do you like San Antonio?" I'm like, "Oh, it was okay [shrugs shoulders]. "You're going back there." I'm like, Huh, I didn't even put anything for the southern part of the state. So, um, it was, it 00:35:00was nice, I guess, to go back there to go and torment, um, basic training people once I got back to Kelly because we would on Saturdays or Sundays, a few of us would go to the base and yeah, just, Airmen your hat's is on wrong [Sprague laughs]. We would just pick on them somewhat. No. So. Kelly Kelly Air Force Base. Uh, I think the reason why I got to Kelly Air Force Base, if I were to know the system now, was, um, Kelly was the baby base of Wright-Patterson. So I was the asset of Wright-Pat, if you want to say, and that's where I really wanted to go. But that never happened. So, Kelly Air Force Base was my first base, and never forget my first boss, Staff Sergeant Robert Robert Levine. He 00:36:00was a security forces guy, that got cross-trained into our career field. And of course, he had his level of expectation. And then you had the Air Force's level of expectations. So I guess that did me some good with him doing that, because he he would never let me not miss a beat and stuff. Yeah. So

SPRAGUE: So what what was the unit, was, were you organic to the base or was there a specific unit?

RATHKE: So it was the 2851st Air Base Group and then we were, how did that go? 2851st Air Base Group and we were , so we were a squadron underneath that. So it would have been the 2851st Mission Support Squadron maybe back then? I don't 00:37:00even know if there was mission support back then yet. Yeah, but, so for those that I understand, it was called the CBPO, Consolidated Base Personnel Office. Um, and uh, from what I've been told from history is that, um, the personnel world was uh, at different locations across the base, and then they put them all into one area finally after a while. So the CBPO, its what it was called, and then later on it changed another name. But um, it's kind of funny when you can talk to somebody that was in the Air Force and, and you find out what time frame and you say CBO and they're like, Oh, yeah, I remember going there. And then it really stood for commissary, uh, commissary, base exchange and post office visit is really what it ended up really meaning, in a fun sense. So your senior NCO 00:38:00was saying they were doing a CBPO run. No, they weren't. [Sprague laughs] They were doing a commissary post, exchange, and post office run is what they were really doing [both laugh].

SPRAGUE: That's smart. So what was a typical day at the CBPO, if there was one?

RATHKE: Typical day would've been you get there 7:30. Um, the building that I was in was, actually we had the dining facility. My dorms and my work place were all in one building. This building was massive. It used to be an old World War Two hospital at Kelly. And last time I was there it still exists. Um, and it's 00:39:00just a basically a big, uh, BAQ now, um, where people, like a big hotel basically is what it is now, but you would get to work about 7:30, sometimes you'd sneak off and go get breakfast if you forgot to get it before you went in. And let's say you're going to the restroom or what have you, gulp down some food and get back to the office. And we would, uh, customers would be coming in and out. We'd be taking care of their whatever. Update their metals, update their emergency data card, their service with life insurance, because that was the, what do you call it, the intro people's work or the, the younger, or smaller enlisted people work. I guess. And then, um, then the bosses, they would be doing some briefings, um, uh, with the survivor benefit plan or if somebody's 00:40:00spouse was killed, they would be doing their, um, giving them their benefits and such. And I did forget about another part that was part of the group. That was the uniform. So anything that was, uh, dictated by the Air Force, it went through our office. So if anybody had any questions about whether they could do this to their uniform or not, they would call our office and then we would seek higher headquarters information if we needed it. And because each base had certain items, uh, like the baseball caps, the patches and stuff. That all had to be up to our office.

SPRAGUE: And who was the senior person in your office?

RATHKE: It was a master sergeant. I can visualize him right now, but, uh, I had the reddest hair [laughs], but I can't think of his name right at this time. But, um. Very intelligent guy. Um, I can remember him saying something to the effect when I got there, Um, what year did you graduate? I said '86. And he goes, Oh. Uh. I was doing this and this and this in '86. So as as my time went on in the service, I had that same thing take place, you know, as the youngsters started coming in, I'm like, Oh my gosh, okay, it's time for me. It's getting close for me to retire now. 'Cause I remember him stating that. And, uh, Glen Mercer, that was his name, Glen Mercer. And, uh. Wow. Surprised I was able to bring that one back. Um, yeah, he was a, from what I can remember, he was a 00:42:00bachelor. Never was married. Um, the guy put his heart and soul into his service time, and, uh, I believe he did retire at Kelly. After I left, I went to Korea after Kelly, so. But, um, I. I'm pretty sure he did retire in the in the area.

SPRAGUE: What were. Was there any particular duty that you remember from that time you spent there?

RATHKE: Um, they, our, uh, in-processing days. Those were the days. Um. Uh, it was usually Tuesday, Thursdays. Uh, anybody that came new to the base, we would have to, um, uh, take this typewriter down to this in-processing room. I don't 00:43:00know why we never kept one down there [Sprague laughs], but, um. And, uh, I would always put it on a roller chair. Well, yeah, that came to fall on me one time. Went over a bump, the typewriter went boom.

SPRAGUE: Ooh.

RATHKE: Yeah. So they had to do, uh, some kind of investigation, make sure that I didn't do it on purpose [Sprague laughs]. And it was like a big, you know, looking back at it, it wasn't really a big deal, but it they made it a big deal because I broke, uh, government property. And so we take this typewriter down there so we could type up everybody's emergency data cards, which now everything is done on computers. And this thing was, um, in triplicate form or four, four different types. And you had the carbon copy in there and you couldn't make any mistakes on the names or the Socials. Uh, but once you got down into the other 00:44:00part, you could x x stuff out, but if you made too many mistakes, you had to start over. So I became a very proficient typewriter, type, typist, typist, there you go, because of that, because those forms are a very important document. Um, that document was used when somebody was either injured or killed, and that's what we used to, uh, you know, get the information of where their parents, uh, if they had a spouse or if they had grown children, we would take that and type up the message based on the, the, the, uh, wherever they lived to get the base to set up a notification team, to get out, to notify the parents and so forth.

SPRAGUE: Were you involved at all in, uh, notifications not?

RATHKE: I was never involved in the notifications, but we had to set up the team and the team would consist of somebody that was that outranked the individual. 00:45:00Um, and normally it was an officer, uh, no matter if it was an enlisted person or not. Um, and then if it was, let's say it was a captain, then it had to be a major notifying, so it had to be one step up. So you had the notification officer, uh, a chaplain, and then you had to have a medic. And, um, so when those teams were set up, we would type up the letter that they would literally read per verbatim uh, on behalf of the government, da, da, da, da, da, sorry to inform you of. Joe Snuffy was killed in an automobile accident or was killed by--Well, I didn't do many of the the combat stuff, but it was more auto accident or suicides. That is what a lot of them were. And of course, the reason why we had the chaplain with them and the the medic is is if the spouse or 00:46:00parents were of the older age and maybe, you know, had a heart attack or something, that they needed medical attention. And then, of course, the chaplain was to help console, hopefully, if they had some immediate, uh, religious needs that they wanted to be taken care of. And then then that team came back to our office, they would debrief us and then, um, then everything started out the next day with trying to get everything set up for the services side to get the body transported if it needed to be transported or not, and so forth. So.

SPRAGUE: That seems like something you'd remember experiencing and being involved with that.

RATHKE: It is, um, uh, the one, uh uh, situation that sticks out in my mind is 00:47:00when I was over in Korea. We sent a whole bunch of youngsters over for it was just a team competition in Korea. Well, excuse me, the base was going to the Philippines for a competition. And while they were over there, um, uh, the, what do they call that? Uh, the base was closed down for a while, and then they lifted it up, um, so that they could go off into the civilian area. And as they came back, um, from what I understand the, uh, gate was like here and then the actual base was here. So there is this whole area, uh, and there was guerrillas, Philippine guerrillas that got up and just started spraying fire at our, our troops. And I happened to have a pager that night because this was back before cell phones. The pager goes off. That means command posts contacting us. That 00:48:00means somebody is either injured or killed. Well, come to find out, it was, uh, nine or ten of our soldiers, our airmen from the base. And if we had more than one casualty, the whole office came in. And as, uh, I notified my boss and, uh, he came right in and, uh, I had just got done getting the information, and the first person didn't know that person, but the second person that came across, he was a good friend of mine. And we had, we, we threw darts together and played some pool before he left. That was about four days before that. And, and, uh, I kind of dropped the phone. Uh, just, I don't know, for whatever reason I did, and the boss picked it up and he goes, If you can't if you can't do this, it's 00:49:00okay. Well, I went out of the office, got my composure, came back because I knew I needed to be there to be the person, um, to finish, you know, getting the information that who all was killed and why. And and so we could get the information out to, uh, Randolph so that Randolph could get the other bases involved that needed to do the notification. So, yeah, so that was, that was back in. Um, yeah, that was in '90, Yeah, in '90.

SPRAGUE: Uh, and that was while you were in Korea?

RATHKE: Yeah. At Kunsan.

SPRAGUE: Okay. At Kunsan.So, we're going to, so we're going to try to jump to that.

RATHKE: Hm-Mm.

SPRAGUE: Uh, if you don't mind me, who is that airman's name?

RATHKE: I don't remember his name.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: Just, uh, but, um, yeah, we were we were pretty close, but, uh, it wasn't, uh, I don't know if it was, uh, one of those things that--if it was back 00:50:00then when we had Facebook, maybe I would have had him as a Facebook friend [laughs]. But no, I don't remember his name.

SPRAGUE: So that what actually happened in the Philippines. Yes. And there were, what, 8 to 9 airmen killed. Um, do you remember the name of the the action or the place or location?

RATHKE: Um, they were there for a like, uh, to show how quickly they can load up bombs onto the aircraft and, you know, how, how ready we were for the, you know, if we would go to war. Um, so it was, um, people from Korea, people from Japan, there was like a whole bunch of different squadrons that were there showing their skills. And, um, so there were other individuals from other bases also that were killed or injured. Um, ours were all killed, um, unfortunately. And uh, so yeah, it's--Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. That was 1990?

RATHKE: '90. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember the time of year at all or?

RATHKE: I want to say it was January. February, I think.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so let's jump a--Let's go on to Kunsan here--

RATHKE: Yeah [laughs]

SPRAGUE: --because we're already there. So you get done with Kelly Air Force Base?

RATHKE; Yep.

SPRAGUE: Looks like maybe mid, mid '89, maybe?

RATHKE: I went over there, uh, September of '89.

SPRAGUE: September of '89. Okay.

RATHKE: Yep.

SPRAGUE: Um, and maybe had an NCO prep course at some point? Maybe at Kelly too?

RATHKE: Oh, Airman Leadership. Well, they called it Airman. Oh, my gosh. What was it called? Airman Leadership School, I think is what they called it. It was a two-week course. Um, and then they changed it into NCO. Um, it changed like, I ended up going to three different levels of schooling before I put on E-5. Back in, or those days you could just go once [laughs], then you're done. But they 00:52:00changed it to different things. The Leadership School basically consisted of how you're going to supervise, you know, teachers that are [coughs] [??] teaches; how to, um, supervise; how to write reports; how to, um, possibly speak if you had to do any speaking engagements. Um, basically another level of training going through basic, basically is what it was.

SPRAGUE: So, so, uh, you get to Kunsan. Tell me what your first impressions of Korea were.

RATHKE: It was interesting, I guess is a good way of saying it, because for some reason everybody, uh, is put on this cattle car, as they call it. For some reason my plane was from L.A. Air, or L.A.X. I was, um, I flew into, um, Seoul 00:53:00and then from Seoul I had to get to go to Kunsan. So I took a taxi cab. That was the most--

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: --expensive [laughs] taxi cab I've ever taken in my life. And my boss was like, How did you end up like that? I said, I don't know. They gave me my tickets at [TMO??] and I went off and didn't even think twice of it [Sprague laughs] because, I don't know how that ended up. But anyways, um, because everybody comes in on the, as they call it, the cattle car. So when they get there, they get to Osan. Osan, then you, uh, get a bus down to Kunsan and then we, my, my curfew would meet you at the bus and tell you, okay, you're at this dorm, you're at this dorm, you're at this dorm, and then the next morning then 00:54:00we would do the, um, in-processing with all, all those same people. So, yeah, my boss was like, How did you do that? I don't know. Oh, just. It was just the most expensive taxi ride [laughs] I've ever paid in my life. I was, I think it was like $50 back then, and this was in '89, so.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: So, I can only imagine [laughs].

SPRAGUE: And you flew into [??]or Osan?

RATHKE: I flew into Seoul.

SPRAGUE: Seoul.

RATHKE: So. Okay, so I went from Seoul to Osan, actually, I think is what it was. Seoul to Osan.

SPRAGUE: Yep.

RATHKE: That's what it was. And then, uh, I don't know. I don't know to this day how I got from Osan to Kunsan, because I should have been part of that that cattle car thing, but I wasn't. So I don't know if I ended up on that bus somehow or what [Sprague laughs] but, yeah, it was just all strange.

SPRAGUE: What was your, when you got to Kunsan, uh, what were your impressions 00:55:00of the town and the area?

RATHKE: Um, well, we were out on the base . So, the base is, um, you know, a typical base, if you want to call it that, it wasn't until you got off the base, and then you're like, Okay, you got the, uh, what was this called--Benjo Ditch or Kimchi Ditches or something.

SPRAGUE: Turtle Ditch.

RATHKE: Whatever. It's where the, the human waste was, um, basically, uh, siphoned to the next location where all of ours is in the, uh, we call it, uh, in the piping, you know. Yeah, they have theirs just open and, and then to their agriculture, there was, uh, fishing and rice. I remember them doing the rice right on the side of the road to dry it out before they would take it to the market. And it was interesting. Um, and if you look up to the on the mountains, 00:56:00you would see these little bubbles from place to place near like, what's that? And they were graves 'cause they felt that the higher they were, the closer they were to God. And, uh, I always thought that was kind of weird because you would just be coming along. You see a mountain, and in these little bubbles, [laughs] you're like, Okay.

SPRAGUE: Um, do you remember what they called those bubbles?

RATHKE: No, I don't know.

SPRAGUE: Were they, I remember them. The people would call them,I don't know if it was the Americans called them or the Koreans, but it was they call them "happy mountains."

RATHKE: "Happy mountains," okay.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

RATHKE: No, I never did. I guess--

SPRAGUE: I don't know why that would be, but that's what they called them. Yeah. Uh, what did you do? Did you have much time off base or did you spend most of it on base or what was that like?

RATHKE: Um, I would. Let's see. So I got there in September and, uh, I had played basketball at Kelly for the base team, so I did get to go to a few 00:57:00different Army posts around the state of Texas. And then when I got to Kelly, or, excuse me, Korea, they said that they were having tryouts for the base team. And I was like,Huh, that sounds interesting. What does that include? Well, you would travel on the weekends to different sites to be in tournaments. All right. Sounds good to me. So I did try out. Um, I was the only only white female on the team. I was the captain. I was one of the captains of the team. And we would go to all the other Army installations, um, if they had females stationed there, and I would always call them the Amazon women because they were probably twice as tall as I was. I'm five eight and I think that's pretty tall. And, um, we look every weekend during the basketball season we were gone. And I think that 00:58:00was nice because a lot of people, when they're over in Korea, they'll stay in their dorms or they'll go to the NCO club, back to the dorms. You know, young kids no experience of of being off base. And, uh. And then we did go over to Pusan, uh, and played the Navy folks over there, the Navy gals. Um, that was kind of interesting because they had to come off the ship to, to play. So it was just a kind of a different kinda concept, I guess. You know, we got the, ah, the air bases and the Army has the post, so.

SPRAGUE: Do you? Did your team have a mascot or?

RATHKE: We were the Wolf Pack.

SPRAGUE: The Wolf Pack? Ah.

RATHKE: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: The fighter wing or the?

RATHKE: Yep, that's the fighter wing.

SPRAGUE: Is that also what's on your VFW badge, Wolf Pack?

RATHKE: Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: There we go. Nice.

RATHKE: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Cool.

RATHKE: Wolf Pack. If you if you were in the service, you, uh, at least the Air Force, I would say more so than anything. And you saw that little wolf head on anything. Um, people recognize that right away as the Wolf Pack.

SPRAGUE: What was the name of the unit that you served with in Kunsan?

RATHKE: The 8th Mission Support Squadron. Okay, so it was the 8th Fighter Wing, and you had the 8th Air Base Group and then the 8th Mission Support Squadron.

SPRAGUE: Got it. When he went out to do the basketball thing, did you go by train or did you go by bus or how did you?

RATHKE: We went by bus. Well, actually, we went by like, uh, it was like a 13-passenger van, a, uh, "kimchi van," as we called it [laughs], because they were very slender vans. Um, they weren't like our typical vans, but, uh, they, they fit 13 of us in there, and we usually had two of them. Um, and they were 01:00:00white, I do remember that. And then if you imagine all of our equipment and then the the basketballs that we traveled with, and so we had. Oh, let's see. Yeah. 14, I think we had 14 girls on the team and, um, from all different career fields.

SPRAGUE: I assume that it was, it was a one-year tour in Korea?

RATHKE: Yes. For the Air Force, it was one year. 12 months.

SPRAGUE: 12 months. Was it unaccompanied?

RATHKE: Yes. There were people there that were accompanied, though. And that was because if they had a Korean spouse, they were able to stay over there, and from what I understand that has since changed. You can elect to do a one-year or two-year. And then the two- year course is a company tour. So depending on the location.

SPRAGUE: Huh. Interesting.

RATHKE: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. I didn't know that. What? What did. Did you have any downtime? And if so, what did you do while you were there?

RATHKE: [laughs]Well, as I tell people, I'm surprised my kidney and [Sprague laughs] liver aren't pickled by now, but, um, you definitely worked hard there. Uh, we. It was ten hour days, uh, work days. I kid you not. It was ten, 10 hours, if not more sometimes. Um, but when we would finish, well, when we finished the day up, we would either go down to [Sprague coughs] Kunsan City or any town and live it up a little bit and--some of the stories there. So when you get to Korea, they have what's called a Green Bean and people will take you down 01:02:00to the [coughs]--you got me doing it now, too--To the bars downtown and you get this bowl. It's called an Ammo Bowl. And there's like, I don't know, ten straws in this bowl and everybody's supposed to take a straw. Well, with you being the new person, you don't know what's going on. You're just like you're drinking as fast as you think everybody else is drinking, but nobody really else is drinking. You're really the only on that's drinking. So that's your first experience, is called a green bean. And then when you leave, it's called a brown bean. 'Course, you know, you know what you're in. And usually there is a green bean person in this crowd that's with you, usually. And, um, you definitely learned your lesson from the very first night, but, uh, [coughs] the green beans definitely would get a few of us in trouble. I wouldn't say in trouble. You just 01:03:00didn't feel the greatest for a couple of days because of the soju that's in there. Partially formaldehyde drink. So. Yeah. [Sprague laughs] Good times. Good times. I do remember going to the OB beer factory and touring that and a bunch, the group that I went with, um, the night before we all decided we were going to, I guess we all were having a bad day or we decided to drink pretty heavily and we get there to the OB beer factory and oh my God, yeah, that was tough to go through because the smell of the hops and and everything else that was going through there, but we all made it through. And by the time we got to the taste testing area, we were all fine. We all had our taste [laughs]. Oh, my gosh.

SPRAGUE: Uh, did you have any protests against the base while you were at Kunsan?

RATHKE: Yes. Yes, there was. And those got, those were almost the closest to being at war while we were there. They would close the gates down, and if anybody lived off the base, they had to seek room on the base because they were not allowed to go down and see their families. And it was the college students rioting while we were there. I'm not sure what they were trying to prove. We were there to protect them in lots of ways, especially being in Korea, because it was still kind of in a combat state and it still is in a combat state to this day. So yeah, that was, that got real interesting. And then the times that we would play war, it seemed like we were we would be finishing up and then they 01:05:00would notice that we were playing war and we would end and a day or two early because we had to go into a real, a real mission with a gas mask and we had to change out. You had your play gas mask if you want to go out and then you had your, you know, it really if we really got hit with toxins and stuff. Can we take a break?

SPRAGUE: Yeah, let's take a break. Okay. Um, this is Luke Spragg and Michele Rathke, and this begins segment two, and we were starting back up again. I think we were going to be at Kunsan?.

RATHKE: Kunsan. Yes.

SPRAGUE: And Michelle was going to show us some pictures from Kunsan. Go ahead, Michelle.

RATHKE: So some some great memories. This one down here, I had to have my wisdom teeth taken out. I don't know how well it's seen, but, um. Yeah, I look like a 01:06:00chipmunk there. I mentioned about the OB beer factory. These were the people that I went with. Um, this was me, I guess. Clowning around at work. Um, and then when I was over there, uh, you're a senior airman, E-4, for one year, and then you get to become an NCO, which is a non-commissioned officer. And this would have been the, the individual that I was able to, was, um, promoted to NCO with. Um, we had a 24-hour marathon. Um, not that I ran 24 hours, but, uh, somebody ran so long and then the next person and so forth that was there. Um, and then this was a, uh, friends of mine at, uh, New Year's Eve. Uh, we, uh, we 01:07:00decided to because, uh, the timing with Korea. And I think, I think we had just gotten off working and it was, um, chiming midnight at, in, in the United States. So that's why we were still in our uniforms. So then let's see what else I got here. Oh, a little bit of a little bit of a blurb of my, showing that I was in, uh, basketball over there. Um, I was pretty successful over there and received Airman of the Quarter, and then looks like I went to the some kind of a ball, uh, probably the, uh, ball of some sort that was just, uh, me cheesing around at the, the base or in my, my room. Then this was our old building. Uh, actually, while I was there, we moved from this old building to this newer location. But you can't tell that it's different. But anyway, so we did, uh, 01:08:00they built a brand new building for all of our, our personnel, people and services, uh, career field. Um, so that was, that's my little collage from my time over there [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Any particular people that were memorable to you?

RATHKE: Let's see, this is, uh, uh, and that one is Zan. I remember her name And Shannon [LaPone??]. I can't remember her name, but Zan and I were roommates for a little bit. Shannon was, um, uh, the staff sergeant in my office. And funny story with her, as I guess I must've came into work one day not looking so spry. And she goes, Do you drink coffee? And I said, Not really. She goes, Well, you are today. So she's she introduced him, introduced me to the Air Force Coffee, as I call it, um, which was three teaspoons of sugar. And two things of creamer. 01:09:00And I think I still drink the coffee that way to this day [laughs]. So. Yeah, yeah. I had good times there.

SPRAGUE: I see also in your scrapbook there that you had made sergeant?

RATHKE: Yeah, that was what this NCO. Uh, so you, you like I said, you're a senior airman for one year, and then you, you become a, uh, non-commissioned officer. So you can, you can be in charge of, uh,where you have to write reports on troops and supervise them. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And that happened while you were in Korea?

RATHKE: Mm-hm.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Uh, did you take any responsibilities on as any [farther??] sergeant at that point?

RATHKE: Not while I was there, because I was the the lowest ranking person in the office. It was when I went to, uh, the next base, which was Randolph. So.

SPRAGUE: So what was that like coming back to the United States after being in Korea?

RATHKE: Um, well, seeing you don't have a vehicle over there. Yeah. You. You have to almost learn how to re-drive in a way. Um, not so much, but it's just weird that you don't get to drive [coughs]. And then when you get back. Um, and, um, just so the way the base is set up, you know, you only get to drive. If you were to drive, uh, you got 25 miles an hour, but then if you got off base, yikes! They have two-lane highways, and it's crazy to drive. I wouldn't want to drive over there. Um, returning from there. Um. Yeah, I don't. I don't recollect, but I know it was something. It was different getting back to the United States. Um, some of the stuff. Because you don't feel very secure over 01:11:00there. Um, you feel very like you're, uh, an object that can be there one minute and gone the next. So. Yeah. I was glad to be back.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm.

RATHKE: So.

SPRAGUE: So. Next duty station. Uh, Randolph.

RATHKE: Randolph. Yes.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about, uh. First of all, how did you get assigned there? [Rathke laughs] [I got to ask??]

RATHKE: Well, uh, let's see. I went over engaged to my husband now.

SPRAGUE: While in Korea?.

RATHKE: Going to Korea.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: And, uh, when I came back, um, mid-tour in June of, uh, '90. Yeah, I told him. I said, Well, I had orders to L.A. Air Station in California. Um, if we're going to stay together, we need to get married. And he's like, What? And I 01:12:00said, Well, here's the deal. If we don't get married, uh, it'll be another year till we can be even think about being together again, because, uh, L.A. Air Station didn't have his career field there. Because L.A. Air Stations is just, uh, it's more just of a supply location. And, uh, so I was at home on my mid-tour, um, and like, Friday afternoon at 2:15 we went down to the courthouse and got married. And with that, uh, when you're when you are a married couple, they have what's called joint spouse assignments. So when I got back to Korea, I put in my paperwork. He put his paperwork in when he was at Kelly. Lo and behold, my orders get changed from L.A. Air Station to Randolph. My mom and dad were ecstatic. Of course, my mom and dad did not know that we were married yet [laughs]. Um, just because, um, his parents did know, boo. We took a little trip 01:13:00up to Wisconsin for deer hunting season. Um, and my mother-in-law said, you will tell your parents before you come up here that you're married because I'm not going to play this game of nobody knows or what's going on until. There's only three times in my life that, well, as of this point in time [Sprague laughs], that my mother-in-law kind of irked me, and that was one of them. But, you know, she had she was right. I did need to tell them. So my mom and dad came to my in-law's house and we told them. My dad was ecstatic and very happy. My mom was, uh, you better get, you better not get pregnant before you get married. I'm like, okay. Won't go into that whole regime of stuff, but, um, two years later, we did get married in a church, so we pleased her a little bit there. But, um, 01:14:00Randolph was definitely a great assignment. I was there for six years [coughs]. Um, started out at the "Taj Mahal" [Randolph AFB Building 100] building, as they call it. And it's not on this picture, unfortunately. Oh, this. This is a picture looking out of the Taj Mahal. The Taj Mahal is a water tower actually, for the base. And that's where the, my office was at at the time, because we were, I was still part of the personal affairs career field yet. But while I was there, the 1st Air Force decided to consolidate a lot of career fields, just not mine. Um, and so our personal affairs career field went into the personnel world and they said, Here is your, uh, seven values of, uh, career development course that I needed to go through and study. And I was like, Okay, sure. Um, so I 01:15:00instantly became a personnel person. Um, I worked at the Family Support Center there for a little while. That was very fun. I shouldn't say very fun, it was a lot of very fun because I was the Air Force Aid Society clerk there and, uh, got to help people out with their emergency bills and what have you. And that was the transition also of the Family Support Center where, um, the military was helping spouses get, uh, helped them get into the civilian sector of working because spouses, you know, they moved with the military person. They have to uplift and sometimes start from scratch, which is not necessarily all that much fun, but, um, they found out that, you know, these, these spouses had a lot of 01:16:00skills and, um, that developed into this transition program that the Family Support Center took care of [coughs]. Which I got to see that firsthand. And then not only that, they brought on the Transition Assistance Program, which was, um, you separated, retired from the service. You had to go through it. It became mandated. It was a three day course. I think that three day course has changed somewhat over the years, but a very important thing because if you were if you were a career airman of 20 years or more, you probably never had to do a resume during your time in. And so it was a how to write a resume, how to get yourself ready for an interview, all that stuff, how to not speak military anymore. I don't think that ever has left me personally [Sprague laughs]. But 01:17:00the Family Support Center, it was, not only that, they had the Red Cross in there. Got to know one of the ladies there, and actually when I went on to Ohio to get married she gave me a pence. Oh, pence, is England, English money that you put in your shoe when you get married. I still, I kept that. I gave it to my daughter when she just got married recently, also. And she wore that in her shoe. So it's a good luck piece, I guess is. I mean, 32 year. after 32 years of marriage, I hope it carries on for her. But anyways, that lady that gave that to me that I wish I could remember her. I know she's she's deceased now, but the Red Cross was in there. And then we also had the "loners closet" in there. 01:18:00Loners closet" was where you could go and get bedding for people that may be staying at your house for just a brief moment. Or you move to the base and you don't have any of your dishes yet or any or anything in your kitchen, you're able to check out there. Um, so that that was a very good experience to be part of that. Then from there I went to, um, 559th Flying Training Squadron, and that's where I got my first taste of the personnel world. And the commander's support staff is what I worked. Um, the highlights of that is I did get to fly a T-37, well, not fly, but ride in a T-37, two different times--that was pretty cool. And also, uh, Lieutenant Colonel John McClain was one of the commanders 01:19:00that was there. Uh, he actually, he and I crossed paths again later on at Offut Air Force base, which was kind of interesting, but, um, very nice guy. Um, he actually was the guy that was that handed me my staff sergeant stripe when I found out I got promoted to staff sergeant. So those would have been the two highlights of being there.

SPRAGUE: Was he one of the two--Was he involved in your mentorship or were there other people who mentored you as an NCO?

RATHKE: Well, he was. He was the commander.

SPRAGUE: So, was he just tangential?

RATHKE: Yeah. Yeah. No, he was. He was. I, I, I would do the documents up for him and he would, you know, sign them off and that type of stuff. But I wouldn't say he was a mentor, but he was a, a very good person. Um, just, uh, I mean, him 01:20:00and his wife cared about the troops that were in the squadron. Um, for Chris--I don't know, this is kind of weird, this color that some of his stuff comes up. Um, for Christmas, she gave us Billy goat soup recipe, and basically all it was was, um, those different kinds of beans and. But it was in the Billy Goat Soup recipe because we were the Billy Goat Squadron up there, and there so. So. Anyways, all in all what it's just kind of cool. I still have. I still think I have that somewhere on the way around the house. The recipe. And I've made it quite often, actually. It's just a bean soup is basically what it was, but very down to earth couple, him and his wife I wish I remembered his wife's name. But, uh, when you're a enlisted person, sometimes you don't think that you can speak 01:21:00to those officers. And he and she kind kind of broke that ice for me to be able to speak with them. So from the 559th, I had won Airman of the Year in my career field. So then the wing commander got noticed of me, or noticeable. So then he wanted he wanted a personnel person on his staff because in the past they just had administrative people, 702s. So I worked for them. Then at that time, Colonel Trexler And he then he made General while we were there. So that was really cool to see. How that all takes place. And it just doesn't happen 01:22:00overnight because there's a party to be planned. Um, and the promotion ceremony to be scripted and what have you. So that was neat to be a part of that. And then as far as the wing and then I basically went back to the building that I was working in at first, which was the Taj Mahal, but I was up by the, uh, the second level, not the first level. So I think that's where this picture here was taken from.

SPRAGUE: If you could--Okay. Anything else you can tell us? The pictures?

RATHKE: Um, actually, yes. So this is my grandpa Vincent Arntrup and my grandma Viola. Um, they came and visited me when I was in, um, in San Antonio, and, uh, they brought their friend with them. Uh, Al and I can't remember his wife, but 01:23:00my grandpa and him went into the army on a, on a buddy buddy system. And, uh, while they were over in Japan, All was either injured or had some kind of a medical thing, so they ended up having to go to Hawaii. And, uh, so my grandpa was actually stationed in Hawaii during the time that his buddy was injured or being rehab place while he was there. So that that's a picture of all them with us. And we went down to the Alamo. I showed them around. And the funniest thing that I can still remember is, uh, uh, we lived off base and, um, across the street was a Black family. And when my grandpa got back from visiting, he called my mom and he goes, Marilyn, do you know that she all has colored living across from her [laughs]? And she goes, Yeah, I've met them. And. And she goes, They're 01:24:00actually really nice. It's just that that's, that, that mentality of where I grew up at. But it was just kind of funny. But, um, anyways, um, this picture down here at the bottom, she actually, uh, this young lady, her name is Shannon, and uh, let's see, her last name at the time was. Uh, Shannon. Uh, I don't see it Anyway, she was actually in John and I, um, church wedding, and she came up to Ohio, and. And, uh, we we became real good friends before--it was almost two years that I was stationed there before we had our, our, our actual wedding. So, um. Yeah. I think. Shannon, what was Shannon's last name? Yeah, she would have 01:25:00her uniform on. I would have it on. Anyway, she was just too short. She was from Georgia. My family got to meet her, and, uh, just. Just overall friendly. Um, so. And then, uh, some of the fun things that happened in Texas was going to SeaWorld. SeaWorld just started while we were there. Um, I love this picture of me. I can't believe that's me, actually. Um, so anyways, um, if you go there now, uh, where SeaWorld is built up, it it just is just nuts there. Um, so. And then, of course, we did have the wedding. Here's pictures of the wedding. Or some of them, I should say. And then what's a result of that? A child, my first born, um, Troy, um, he's now 29 years old, but, uh, he was born at Wilford Hall 01:26:00Medical Center at Lackland Air Force Base. And, uh. He got to experience quite a bit in, uh, in our time of service. So, here's some more of them.

SPRAGUE: So, he was born in '93.

RATHKEL: In '93.

SPRAGUE: And that was at Lackland you said?

RATHKE: Yeah, he was born at Lackland. But I was stationed. It was the only hospital, military hospital. So you I had to go there first.

SPRAGUE: You had mentioned something in the pre-interview about January of '91 and the deployment, something about a funny story about your husband and you?

RATHKE: Oh, yes. [laughs]

SPRAGUE: If you could share--

RATHKE: Sure, sure. Um, so, um, John was part of what was called the Combat Logistics Support Squadron, and their mission was to go in and take care of 01:27:00planes that might, um, go down in the combat area. So he was, he was deployed to Diego Garcia, um, like January 2nd of ' 91. Well, um, Keesler Air Force Base had a shortfall for a personal affairs troop, and, uh, I was the only one that had M16. Mm. Chem warfare and all the qualifications to be ready to go to be deployed. So he deploys. Now this is before cell phones, of course. And, uh, I, uh, my the NCO, they call those NCO, uh, Mobility NCO. He goes, So he goes, What's on your mind? What do we need to help you with? Because it was like it was like 24 hour or 40 hours later I was on the plane going to England and I 01:28:00said, Well, we just got this new house. And I said, We have a dog. And he goes, Oh, I live in the dorms. I'll just I'll, uh, I can stay there if you want me to. Well, luckily, when we had the Christmas party, John met this guy, so thank God. Um, so John lands, lands in the--[Sprague goes to correct problem] that's weird that it came off it's good. It's good--And he lands in the Diego Garcia And I'm. I'm already moving to England at that time. And John calls the house and George could tell that it was a overseas number, and he thought maybe it was me trying to call saying I made it safely. Well, um, it was John. And so he hung up, calls back and, and it was the same number again. And he goes, John John! Don't hang 01:29:00up! Michelle got deployed. And George. George says he could hear the sniffles like, like I already had somebody move in with me already at that, you know, in that short period of time. But um, what happened was I told his first sergeant to get a notice to his team chief that I was getting deployed. Well, I think there was some communication problems there. And lo and behold, George got John to settle down. He got his phone number. So then the minute I was able to land in Kerr or not Korea, England, uh, I called back and George goes, Here's John's phone number. I would call him as soon as you can. Uh, he knows that you're deployed now and, and all that good stuff. So yeah, that was, uh, that was an interesting time for both of us. And, uh, somewhere around my home, I still have that letter that he wrote out, thinking that things were over already in itself 01:30:00and so, so forth. But in reality, it wasn't. It was just that, um, that's what happens when you're both in the military. You have to, um, you both get deployed at any given time. And of course, I'm sure nowadays with everybody having cell phones, that definitely probably wouldn't have taken place. So it's kind of a, a good story to tell. And, and, uh, I tell it often, but so we were both gone. Um, so we got married in June of '90, and then, uh, he didn't get back till May of, of ' 91. So it was almost, um, we had only been together for about three months of our first year of marriage. And I said sometimes I think that's probably, that's probably why we stayed married as long as we have, because of all the trials and tribulations of the first year.

SPRAGUE: You were both deployed in response to Desert Storm/Desert Shield?

RATHKE: Yes we did. Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So then you wind up over in Upper Heyford?

RATHKE: Yeah, Upper Heyford.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that.

RATHKE: Um, so I was sent over there because of the ground war that was going to happen, supposedly. Um, but the ground war, uh, never took place because, um, we basically--the ops didn't happen. So I was over there for, I'd say, the beginning of January till the end of April. And basically I was going to be doing lots of messages of people injured or wounded or or killed probably. But since we didn't have the ground war take off, um, I basically started doing personnel work ahead of time before my time. Um, uh, what do we call, what is 01:32:00that team called when we get deployed as personnel? Uh, it's not coming to me right now. Anyways, um, when you're deployed and there's a shortfall, meaning that, um, the, uh, position is required to be filled, uh, let's say you have a security forces person and they get sick, and you need so many people to do that, that mission, you just, you reach back to the United States and say, Hey, we need to fill that position. And then they would get them ready to go and get sent over to whatever location. Um, so since they didn't need me there, uh, since no ground war, they sent me home early and, but John still stayed, um, deployed during that time frame. Um, I did get to get off the base for a brief moment and, uh, get some fish and chips over there. But while we were over 01:33:00there, uh, they had a thing was called B&Bers, they were the protesters of war, basically England people. And they would, uh, protest right outside the base gates. And while we were there, they lit a person on fire that had AIDS, thinking that the AIDS would spread by the fire to us. But it didn't happen. So they were they were, uh, arraigned. And, uh, the person that they set on fire, unfortunately, was burned pretty bad. And I don't understand why they did that, but, uh, I guess that was just their way of protesting back in those days.

SPRAGUE: And that was at Upper Heyford?

RATHKE: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And you call them B & Ders?

RATHKE: B & Ders is what it was called. But I don't remember what it stands for either.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: This is that they were, you know, trying to protest the, you know, us 01:34:00being there because Upper Heyford was, was closed down because of the the brac, brac, brac. Was it the brac? Uh, they closed the base down. So they basically had to reopen it to bring on this mission that I was a part of. So the base was basically, um, it was pretty much ghost, um, about three weeks prior. Uh, my, my arrival, of course, you know, everybody else, the [sea??] folks came in and got everything set back up and, um, got the beds in there and, uh, linen and all that stuff and, uh. Yeah

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to remember, on the off chance, do you happen to remember the name of the unit you were with while you were there in England?

RATHKE: I want to say it was the Mission Support [Squadron??], I want to say, 01:35:0041st? But we'll just go with that.

SPRAGUE: Okay [Rathke laughs]. Sounds good. So, um, you're, you've shown us your first child was born in '93?

RATHKE: Uh huh.

SPRAGUE: What? Uh. And you're at Randolph until '96?

RATHKE: Yep.

SPRAGUE: What, uh, what was it like serving as a parent? And. And.

RATHKE: Um. With, uh, with my husband being in the career field that he was, over there, or not career field, but his squadron that he was, he was TDY quite often, temporary duty, to different locations. So, um, as the son was able to speak and there was an airplane in the sky, he would say Daddy and point to daddy and saying that, that the airplane was daddy because we were taking him to the airport so often. And uh, uh, I was telling my husband that story, and I 01:36:00think it pulled in his heart a little bit and, uh, his squadron actually got was closed down for whatever reason. I'm not sure why. So then we were in a must move situation, and, uh, so Troy was about three years old at that time. And, uh, we got orders to, uh, Keflavik Naval Air Station in Iceland and, uh, yeah, I, there's still still kind of odd that we were able to get to that, uh, that location based on the numbers of people that serve there. Um, you maybe had 20 personnel people and five people of his current field so that the numbers were pretty low. But everybody keeps saying that since I was at Randolph, I ran the, I, I went to the assignments team at the AFPC area and I said, Nope. I said, We 01:37:00just put in the paperwork and whatnot. So we had to get his passport and um, you know, taking him to daycare every morning and making sure I got to work on time sometimes was a little more challenging than what it needed to be. But, uh, it was, yeah, it was interesting. And, uh, yeah, you have a lot of friends that will help you out. Um, um, that watched him. Um, actually, one of my first sergeants helped out a lot. His kids were wanting to be babysitters and, and whatnot. So they were, they helped out and, um, trying to think of his name. He was a master sergeant, and they didn't live too far from us. So, from time to time, I would be like, Hey, would you guys watch Troy? And they'd be like, Sure. And, uh, just to give me some time by myself where I wasn't working or, or being 01:38:00a mom. Um, especially with John being gone a lot.

SPRAGUE: Do you think while you were in the Air Force over time you saw more, better treatment towards families as time went on. What was your experience?

RATHKE: Oh, most definitely. Um, the Air Force definitely, um, cared about the families, that's for sure. Um, like I said, when John and I were not married, you know, we were going to go to two different locations. But once you become married, they definitely try to keep you together. Um, the only ones that get a little difficult is when the, um, a one's an officer and one's enlisted or both officers, maybe. Um, that can get a little tricky, but, uh, for the most part, they do try to work with you, and, um, it's the family is, you know, the family 01:39:00events that they would hold, um, over time were pretty impressive, you know, like Christmas time and, uh, Halloween time, you know, we would have the squadron parties and, and, uh, yeah, they would just include the whole family and not just, just the military person. So that made things a little nice.

SPRAGUE: Sometime in '94 you go to--It looks like Airman Leadership School for four weeks. Does that sound right?

RATHKE: Oh, that was at Randolph.

SPRAGUE: Randolph.Yes.

RATHKE: Yeah. And so I said earlier it was three different courses because I made E5. So even though I had the original leadership school, um, this was a whole new, different way of, uh, of training. So yeah, I had to go through for a year, four weeks at Randolph. All right. Yeah. At Randolph and I did receive, 01:40:00um, an award. Is that in here? Let['s see, I think I have a picture of that somewhere. There it is. Let's see Yeah. I was. The Military Citizenship Award is what I received. And, uh, they would give out different ones like the John Leventhal Award, which is your top graduate person and then Distinguished Graduate. So it was a, uh, definitely, uh, I guess the Military Citizen Award you were one of, one of those people that were well liked and people appreciated your, um, the things that you helped them with. So.

SPRAGUE: Did that have anything to do with your medal that you received for volunteerism or is that separate?

RATHKE: That was later on at Offutt Air Force Base.

SPRAGUE: Okay, cool. Got to ask.

RATHKE: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So tell me about this. Go ahead. Sorry

RATHKE: No, that's okay. That was me getting the award. So young [laughs] and then we're almost out of pictures. Oh, here, oh wait, of [??] of these. This is my flight thing that I did. It was T-37. We're still at Randolph. Yeah. No, we said we went on to Iceland and they, yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yep. We're getting to Iceland. Yep, yep.

RATHKE: And then that's where my scrapbooks end [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, um, we're going to move on from Randolph then.

RATHKE: Yeah, sure.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Tell me about, you said, it sounds like you chose to go to Iceland or you elected to, or?

RATHKE: Well, we, um. We, like I said, we were in a much move [group??] a must move situation because John's squadron closed down, and, um, so we had, um, they 01:42:00had an assignment team that came in to his squadron, and they figured out which ones were, um, two or joint spouse, um, cases so that they could work those, uh, kind of like, uh, on an individual basis type thing. And then, then anybody that was single was like, okay, you go here, they go there. Um, a lot of the people that were actually there with John, actually went to, uh, Warner Robins, Georgia, and I'll explain that after a bit. And, um, but, uh, we got our assignment and it was to Iceland, and we were like, okay, this is going to be interesting. And the first thing that happens is if you have a family, you have to put in for a request. Now this is a Navy thing. It's not more, it was not an 01:43:00Air Force thing [coughs]. And you had to make sure that there was housing for your family when you got there. Well, everybody stayed on base at Iceland, and the Navy would automatically say, no, you can't bring your dependents. And I'm like, okay, what are we going to do with Troy for the time we're over there? It was just a process. Um, but within a month before we left, we knew he was able to go. He had his passport. So we go. We leave there in September, and, oh, it seems like September is like when we actually travel, I guess [coughs]. September of '96? Yeah, September '96. Um, get over there. Uh, of course, they are, what, 4 hours, 4 or 5 hours ahead of us , timeframe. So that was an adjustment to try to get used to the difference of the sleep. And um, uh, let's 01:44:00see, when I was there, I was part of the Security Forces Squadron, the 85th Security Forces Squadron. I was in the [orderly room??], I was in charge of three different people. That always made it interesting, especially when the security police people would come into our office. They would like to use the word F a lot. And I finally got sick and tired of hearing it and put out a curse cup. And we would have a pizza party almost every week because [Sprague laughs] they would, they knew it was there and some of them would just go in and put $5 in and say, I'm good. It's like, yeah, but this is not [laughter], that's not really the point. But anyways, um, great bunch of people that were there.Captain Papen was the squadron commander at the time and. Had to work with a female--My first time ever working with a female first sergeant. Master Sergeant Patty, 01:45:00what was Patty's last--I can't think of Patty's last name. She definitely cared about how the troops were being taken care of and she definitely knew that the spouses of the security forces had a hard life to live because they if you would look at it in a way, they're kind of the, uh, Seals of the Air Force in a way. They can't have any errors when they're working, that type of thing. And you could tell that it was a strain on some of those families that were over there because Iceland is not--Oh, it's not a fun place to go to because it's cold, cold there all the time. But if you get out into the countryside or into the 01:46:00cities, they do have geothermal pools there. And. I go swimming quite often as a recreation there. So Security Forces. And then eventually I was moved up to the Mission Support Squadron to work with the, uh, what I called the [??] Back a couple a couple of minutes ago, uh, changed to Military Personnel Flight. Uh, but same, same concept was still there. I don't know. Just a smaller group of people.

SPRAGUE: Was that also with the 85th?

RATHKE: Mm hmm. 85th.

SPRAGUE: But it was with the Suppport Squadron.

RATHKE: Yeah, changed to 85th Mission Support Squadron. And then while we were there, didn't know it, but went over pregnant with the second child, Trent, and ended up with three kids and. Went with one, came back with three [laughs]. So, 01:47:00[??] says, it's because there is nothing to do. No, it just kind of happened that way [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Did you live on base or? I'm assuming you had to.

RATHKE: Yeah, you had to live on base. The only people that were allowed to live off base is if they had a spouse that was Icelandic. And that was pretty hard, to sometimes prove, but I don't know how it's not because Icelandic last names are pretty noticeable.They're not like our typical last names. Uh, for instance [coughs]. So for my daughter, uh, her last name would be John's daughter. Now, how can you track whose last name is whose, right? That's how they do it over there. So you don't have a Smith, Jones, Miller? Yeah. It's the dad's first 01:48:00name. And then if their daughter is their daughter or if it's a son. So, John son. Yeah, that's how. That's how they get their last names [??] It's like, kind of scary.

SPRAGUE: Did you have much opportunity to get off base and get around?

RATHKE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Um, actually, my parents came over there and visit us while we were there, so we took a, like a two weeks of vacation and toured everywhere as much as we possibly could. Um, we went to Glacier Bay. That's where the glacier is breaking off on Iceland. And. And then it floats into the to the ocean up there. Um, they have the what's called the Duck [DUKW] boats, just like they do here in Wisconsin. It's kind of cool that they have the same kind of concept over there. Um, but if they saw a piece of ice floating, they had to stay so far away from it, 'cause you never knew what could be underneath, 01:49:00just like a glacier taking--um--and we went to a couple of the festivals there. Saw how, you know, downtown, they love doing open pits of sheep, [??] sheep, open, like we do pigs, I guess. Roasting a pig, they would do a roasting of the sheep. Um, that was interesting, so.

SPRAGUE: Cold and lots of sheep.

RATHKE: Cold, lots of sheep and ponies or pony. We would, we would say their ponies because they're very they're very short animals, are very short horses. Um. Unique breed, I guess, of horses. Puffins. Um. Oh. One of the claims to fame while we were they're, uh, Willy from the Free Willy movie was released while we 01:50:00were over there. So, uh, the plane that came in, uh, landed on a little island off of Iceland. And since the runway was not long enough for the C-5 I think it was. C-5 ,yeah, C-5 or a C-21. Anyway, they literally had to break the strut, or do an emergency brake so that they wouldn't keep going. And, uh, John ended up having to go to this little island, um, to fix the plane so it could take back off. But, uh, yeah, Free Willy was released in his little normal habitat world. It was a big swimming pool that they created for him to try to reacclimate to the real world, to the real ocean. But, uh, I, uh, about two years after we left, uh, he since passed away after that. But it's cool that they were trying 01:51:00to bring him back, because they said that's where he was captured at was in that area. So they were trying to get him back with his natural pod and all that good stuff. So that was one of the highlights of being over there [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

RATHKE: Free Willy!

SPRAGUE: Free Willy! [Rathke laughs] While you were on base there, uh, was there at that point, '96, Cold War's over.

RATHKE: Oh, yes.

SPRAGUE: What, what, what mission profiles--If you could just tell me generally, what type of mission profiles and what is the base supporting?

RATHKE: Okay, so there were two different missions that, um, the Air Force side did. Uh, one was the name 932nd Air Control Squadron, I think it was called. And basically they were monitoring the, uh, the upper parts of Russia to make sure that Russia was not going to invade, um, our area. And I'll get back to that in 01:52:00a second. And then the other one was, um, the Rescue Squadron, the 56th Rescue Squadron--helicopters. And what they would do is if a boat would capsize or someone get ill on there, they would go out and try to, um, re, um, bring up the person into the helicopter and take them off to the hospital. Um, and uh, but the Air Control Squadron, we were actually, uh, in the middle of the exercise and uh, Trent, was probably just six, eight, eight or nine weeks old. And, uh, there's a rule with the nation or with Iceland and the base that F-16s can't take off in the middle of the night because, you know, you're going to wake everybody up. Well, all of a sudden, it was like three, 3:30 at ni--in the 01:53:00morning, all of a sudden I heard F-16 take off. I'm like, Oh, that don't sound right. And then, uh, my boss called me in about 5:30, he goes, just show up at the normal time exercises [inaudible]. I said, Oh, could it happen to do with anything of that F-16 taking off? And he goes, You heard that? And I said, Yeah, I was out feeding trip. He goes, Oh, Okay, well, we'll explain it when you get in. Well, what happened was, is a Russian "Bear [Tupolev TU-95], which is their airplane, tried to infiltrate our air, uh, area while we were over there. So that was one of those crazy moments of of time being over there, 'cause, um, uh, they're not, they're not supposed to invade a certain part of the air airspace, and we kind of have that, too. So that was kind of the two different missions. And then you had the Navy site that was there also, Um, and I don't really know 01:54:00what their mission was, why they were there. Uh, but I do know it was considered sea duty for them, even though they weren't on a ship.

SPRAGUE: Huh.

RATHKE: But we, they had the P, is it the P-3s I want to say? Um, they were over there and, um, but since then, the only thing that is left, um, there, is still the helicopter squadron. The Air Force is no longer, um, have a, have a mission because of today's technology,they don't need to have the 932nd Air Squadron, Air Control Squadron, anymore. So that that has been shut down since then.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Anything else that you remember? Um, you had, one of the things that you said during your interview, was you mentioned one of your supervisors 01:55:00there at Iceland, it sounded like--

RATHKE: Okay.

SPRAGUE: --was--

RATHKE: Yep.

SPRAGUE: --mentoring you.

RATHKE: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Can you tell me all about that?

RATHKE: Um, he, uh, he actually sat down and said, where do I want to go with the rest of the time that I was in the service. Because at that time, let's see, I had almost been in ten, yeah, I've been over ten years. And he goes, Well, what's, what's, what's the next thing you want to do? And I said, Well, I want to I would like to go work at a major command. And major command means that, uh, you have the bases underneath them, if I can say it that way. And, uh, he was actually at off at Offutt Air Force Base. And in order for him to stay there, he basically went on this assignment so that he could go right back to it. And he called me up one day and goes, Hey, how would you like to come to Offutt Air Force Base? Because he knew we were getting ready to get into our assignment, uh, movement. Um, because once you're overseas, you have to leave at a certain 01:56:00time. You just can't stay there forever and ever. And I was like, well, as long as you can get both of us there. Sure. And so, lo and behold, he was able to pull some strings. And, uh, that's how we got to Offutttt Air Force Base, um, which was kind of unique, uh, because I had to get a top-secret clearance, um, going into that, and so did my husband, because he was going to be working on a, a plane that that the president could possibly fly on at some given time.

SPRAGUE: Um, this supervisor who mentored you. Would you mind sharing their name with us.

RATHKE: Bill Orboff.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

RATHKE: Known as Elvis. And his nickname was Elvis.

SPRAGUE: [Laughs]. Bill Orborf.

RATHKE: Mm Hmm. Orborf, yeah [coughs].

SPRAGUE: So, uh, you leave Iceland to go to--

RATHKE: Offutt Air Force Base.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about, tell me about that and tell me, at this point, you you had mentioned also in the pre-interview you wanted a major command. And tell me about where your, where you're stationed and where you working.

RATHKE: Okay. So I was part of the United States Strategic Command, which was back in the day known as the SAC headquarters, which was Strategic Air Command. Um, and there was a big push to have all the different services under one command. And um, so Sac, SAC became, um, U.S. STRATCOM and uh, so was a Navy four-star, Air Force, three-star, Navy two-star, and then Air Force one-star, 01:58:00basically, for the leadership. And um, even back in the day when the SAC was there, it was, uh, a intel mec--intelligent, uh, intel, uh, world, uh, where they, you know, they watched the other, the other countries and, um, not only that, you would have the nuclear weapons that was underneath that, as far as the control of them, and them, basically, if we were to go for war, that location was definitely the one that was taken care of when what nuke was gonna be taken off or what bomb would be loaded and taken off type thing. And, uh, while we're there that's when the towers were hit in New York. And, um, of course, President Bush was down in Florida at that time. Had his little speaking into his ear. And 01:59:00he immediately was wihisked off in his plane to Offutt Air Force Base so he could be, uh, down in the building that I was at to do all this command and control during the time to figure out, okay, what was going on, why is this happening and so and so forth. So he was there, uh, over, I think it was over a 12-hour span of time and, uh, which was kind of a first for a long time, you know, and, and it has its capability to keep the if if for some reason a nuclear bomb was to hit hat he was down far enough that it wouldn't detonate to that level. So. While that day took place, of course, F-16s are, uh, roaming the air, uh, watching while he was there. There are so many security forces, people that 02:00:00are, uh, brought in from all over the place, basically. And he didn't realize that there were so many different assets or accesses to that building until that day, because most of it wasn't, you know, guarded because we weren't, we've never had been attacked before. So it was a huge gain. Um, anybody's life, really, was a life since that time. Um, and I remember when the Pentagon got hit, uh, that was that third one. All of a sudden, the civilians that were there, uh, they started leaving. They wanted to get home. And the rest of us enlisted folks, well, any anybody that was in the armed forces, we basically got locked down. We were not allowed to leave. And of course, I had the three kids at the time. And, you know, they were on the base for daycare. So they knew the 02:01:00situation at hand. They brought in more staff because they knew that we all were going to be working longer hours that particular day. Finally, we were we were relieved to go get our children, which that day ended up being I think it was about a 16-hour day by the end of that day. So I was tired, the kids were tired and, uh, yeah, and we had to go back to the work the very next day and it was like, it was almost a normal day, but it wasn't a normal day because then that's when everybody had to show IDs to get on base. Took almost 2 hours to get into the base. Yeah. And they knew it was going to happen that way. And so then they started doing this stagger come-into-- work day, I guess it was. If you were to be there at six, you had to leave your house at 4:00 in the morning, basically, because of--

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: --to get, you know, they had to check everybody's car, you know, they were pretty serious because they didn't want to, they didn't want to have any attacks, you know.

SPRAGUE: Mm Hmm.

RATHKE: [Coughs] So, yeah, that was fun. Fun days back then.

SPRAGUE: Anything else that you remember during that day that sticks out in your mind?

RATHKE: Um, my kids did have a dental appointment that day, and so I asked my boss if I could go to that, cause, uh, Troy had, uh, some stuff going on in his mouth that needed to be taken care of. And he's like, Well, if they're open. Yeah, go ahead. So I went there, you know, picked the kids up, took them back to daycare, and, uh, for them, I don't think they realized anything was going on yet. It wasn't until they, till we got home and then we had TV on and then they realized that there was something going on in the world. Um, the younger two 02:03:00[??] just a little bit. Just a bit. Three. Three at the time. So she probably was not even aware of what was going on. And Trent, Trent was four or five, five, five. Troy was old enough to understand. He started crying, thinking that his mommy and daddy were going to have to leave him. And we reassured him that we weren't going to have to go anywhere, based on our our jobs and our location. We were pretty much, um, not deployable, I guess, in a way. So that was kind of a good thing for the family aspect [coughs].

SPRAGUE: So two two questions. The first one. What, when you when you saw this happen, what, what were your thoughts?

RATHKE: Uh, I didn't believe it was real. I thought it was some kind of, uh, thing that the news media was just trying to make us believe. Um, but, um, yeah, once we got the real, um, war report down, if you want to say, it was, it was, uh, no kidding. It was happening. Um, my thoughts were like, Oh, my goodness. I could not believe, uh, that we were attacked on our own soil. Um, in the fact that the people that were in that building, uh, they had no way to escape, um, to get out. And, uh, when you watch the documentary of that day, um. It puts a little lump in your throat often, um, that, uh, people of different country 02:05:00don't have the same, um, what's the word I'm looking for? Uh, appreciation for what, I mean, we have a free world, but they don't. They'll put their body in harm's way to to hopefully think that their, their, their family's going to be taken care and we know how that all ends up. And it's not good. So [coughs].

SPRAGUE: Do you think, did you observe a shift after 9/11 from the military, before 9/11 to after 9/11, or what was your experience of that?

RATHKE: Um, yeah, there was definitely a shift, I would say. People started speaking to each other, saying hi to each other, opening a door for each other. Um, uh, just being a little more courteous and more respectful of the military 02:06:00itself. Um, that, oh, we do need to keep our military around, uh, because, uh, in the eighties, during the Cold War, nobody, everybody was like, well, why do we even put all this money and energy into, to, um, to keeping these, the armed forces going. And then that minute that it happened again, I don't think anybody thought, uh, after Vietnam, that we were going to, to see war again. Um, and, uh, and we, and we did. Um, so it's how, it did change, I would say, to somewhat. The tempo went higher in the military. And the reason why I say that is because just listening to the troops that are getting out now or retiring, um, it's, it's, it's a constant. So they're they're on missions all the time. It 02:07:00seems like they don't get, they don't get the reprieve like what we we received. And during the build up of, uh, oh, prior to the Desert Storm type stuff, uh, they didn't get that another constant, it's a constant mission, constant--they're on call all the time. And I guess that's what we need, but I think sometimes we really need to look at what the, what it's, what, what it's causing for their mental health, their physical well-being too.

SPRAGUE: Do you need a break?

RATHKE: I think so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. This begins segment three with Michele Rathke and Luke Sprague doing an oral history interview here in Merrill, Wisconsin. So, Michele, one of the things you talked to me about a little bit was, um, uh, your surprise 02:08:00promotion by, uh, General or Admiral, sorry, Ellis. Tell me about that.

RATHKE: So, um, it kind of goes, it was like a two-year process, actually. Um, so I won, uh, I was earned. I shouldn't say won. Earned the 12-Outstanding NCO of the Year for the career field or for my J cell, as it was called because there were in J cells. You had J0 J1, J2, J3, G4, so forth. Anyways, um, so the year before, um, I had won and we had a bad snowstorm. Uh, my parents were going to come and see the award be presented to me and all that good stuff. Well, it didn't happen because of the snowstorm that was so bad. So the following year, 02:09:00lo and behold, I guess I did just as well that year and was put in again for the 12 Outstanding Airmen of the Year. And, um, so we actually had the banquet that year and you're, you're all in your mess dress or I can't think of what the other thing is, we'll just say mess dress. And my parents were able to be there. And I could tell that there was something going on that night, but I couldn't put my finger on. And it's usually one of those things you're like, okay, just kind of brush it off. Well, after everybody received their awards for that year, uh, the admiral goes, um, there's somebody in this audience that's out-of-rank or not in the correct uniform. And I could feel like every eye in that audience just start looking at me. And he goes, Yeah, this. And then, um, the chief that 02:10:00was in our office, he got up and started to read a little bio, a little something about me, but it was very generic in nature. Um, but, um, and the admiral looks over at the chief and goes, I think you said enough. I think she needs to come up front here and, uh, be presented a new stripe to, uh, so I don't know how it all went about. And he goes, Would, uh, Staff Sergeant Michele Rathke please present herself? I was just like, Oh, my goodness. And the whole crowd just went crazy. My mom and dad were there to see it. And he goes, And I understand that her parents are here. Could they please escort her up here? And so that was a very, one of the top five moments of my military life was getting step promoted. Not only that, but it was by another service. And that usually 02:11:00doesn't happen too often. So Admiral Ellis presented me with my E-6 stripe. And, um, so usually we get promoted on the first of of of the month, while mine is the 22nd of the month and still shows in my record to this day. So when I got to the next base, somebody finally had enough nerve to ask me why my data rank was in the middle of the month and not the first of the month. Little did they know, uh, the story, but yeah, at least they had the, uh, they were able to ask the question. But, uh, yeah, that was a big, a big surprise. Um, it was well-deserved, I would say. Um, I was told by a lot of the E-9s and chiefs that were there and, and all the generals, they all sort of knew me. And that's where, again, Colonel McClain comes into play again in my life. Uh, he was, he 02:12:00was part of the, the, uh, the actual part of the wing, I guess it was called, because you had the major command in the wing there, and, uh, he happened to be there also. And, um, so shortly after that, since I did all that, because I did a lot of active, or not active duty, excuse me, a lot of volunteer stuff around the base and stuff. So that's where my Volunteer Service Medal came into play. And Colonel McClain actually presented it to me, which was kind of unusual for somebody at the wing side to come up to the major command and and present this. But, um, I guess one of my bosses or my supervisors at the time figured out that Colonel McClain and I were stationed together before and, and he set that all up 02:13:00for it to happen. So it was pretty significant for that to take place.

SPRAGUE: And as I understand it, that volunteer medal, that, it's pretty serious. I mean, in terms of the amount of volunteering and what it is.

RATHKE: Yes, it is. It's just not given to anybody. Um, there's not, I guess nowadays there is. You have to prove so many hours that you've given back that when when I received it was just in its infancy stage. And it was basically anybody that, uh, had done a lot of volunteerism. And, and that's one of the reasons why I was also step promoted, because of, of that fact. Um, you know, having three children and, and a husband that was active duty too. It just kind of worked out nicely that some of the volunteer stuff that I was doing was during my time being during the day kind of stuff. But, uh, I, I look back at 02:14:00that now and go, how did I do all that? Being a mom of three and a wife of an active duty person, it just blows my mind that I was able to, to pull that off. And so, yeah.

SPRAGUE: Any, any memorable duties that you had at Offutt that to come to mind? Or moments that stick out in your head?

RATHKE: Well, definitely the step promotion moment. Um, and then, of course, 9/11, with that taking place and then. Oh, shoot. Uh, one of the president's, uh, came to visit, uh, right before he went out of service and who I was at at the time. He had never been in Nebraska, so he made it right before he, uh, was 02:15:00finishing up his time, and John had to help fix one of the planes while he was there or fix his plane, And he, um, they received, um, um, one of the coins from the presidential plane. Was it Clinton? I think it was Clinton. Yeah, that's right. I think it's Clinton. I don't know. I should know this, right? [coughs] But anyways, um, uh, that was kind of interesting because we were all, uh, forced to go out on the flight line and whooping and hollerin' it up, and some of us could have cared less what was going on. Um, that was definitely significant. And, um, the promotion, and just being at STRATCOM was a very neat experience because you're with the Army, the Navy and a few Marines were there also. So that was kind of neat.

SPRAGUE: What did, what was your experience in terms of exposure to other branches and your experience with them?

RATHKE: Um, so working in the what we called the Joint Orderly Room. The thing that I still kind of chuckle at, so everybody in the service takes vacation, leave, whatever you want to call it. It's funny how each service has a different way of processing a leave form. The Navy has their way, the Army has their way. Air Force. It's amazing how even though we all are kind of in the same, in the the armed forces, it's all done differently because of the mission. Um, and the Navy explained it the way the, the, the personnel men, PNs that I was with, and the yeoman's, YNs, um, they explained why is because if they were on a ship and 02:17:00you left the ship at 0700, you were still on duty at 0659 technically. So they literally have to write the time that they were on leave and when they come back, and it's, if there's, the forms are all different. That's that's one thing that I saw that was so different. Um, the way we recognize across the board is totally different. Um, the traditions that we all have are totally different. The Navy definitely, I would say have quite, quite a bit of traditions that they still have to this day. Uh, the Air Force, uh, I don't know if there's too many left, except for you get promoted. Boom. You get punched by people in the arm. The Navy, they, they got their Shellback when they go across the equator, they got, you know, just different things that it's kind of unique. Um, and, uh, I 02:18:00guess the, the, the interesting fact that everything is done the same is when we receive a, like a Joint Commendation Medal or Airforce Commendation Medal. That whole process is pretty much the same. But to take a leave, take time for your leave form is, it was, we we had a four-day training class on how to process each service's leave form, so we made sure we were doing them right for each other. Because you never know if, um, because we only had one Army person in our, in our office and two Navy people. And at any given time, those three could be gone. And we had [clubs??] around the Air Force. So that wasn't the issue. So that would be the most unique thing as far as across the board, I would say.

SPRAGUE: The, um. So when did you end up leaving Offutt?

RATHKE: Ah, so once again, the, as I say, John probably tried to control all of our assignments in a way. Um, his squadron was turned over to the civilian sector. Um, so all the people got GS jobs out of the jobs that the military were doing, basically, there. So we were in a must move situation again. And from there we, uh, we got to Warner Robins Air Force Base, Georgia. [coughs] Um, my assignment came in as the, let's see here, 650, 651st, no, 651st. Yes, 651st Combat Logistics Support Squadron. Now, I think I said that earlier in my interview, Combat Logistics Support Squadron, um, was John's squadron at Kelly 02:20:00Air Force Base. Um, the reason why I got that particular assignment was because as a personnel person for that particular squadron, you had to have a top-secret clearance. So John thought for sure that our assignments got mixed up. He ended up in an active duty/guard assignment. And when we get to Kelly, um, some of his, some of his troops from back in the day are still stationed there. How they got to stay there this entire time, I have no idea. But it was kind of neat to, uh, reacquaint with all of them. Um. John, what was John's last name? Anyway, he was was he was E-4 and John was his his supervisor. And it was just neat to to reminisce with all of them and a few others, too, um, that were stationed at 02:21:00Kelly back when we were there together. And, uh, but yeah, Warner Robbins was a very, uh, is a civilian base more so than it is a military base. And that's just becaus [e of the depot maintenance that is done there. It's there, I think, still at this time. Um, John's squadron was part of the JSTARS [Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System], and I don't think he quite enjoyed it as much as I did being there. And, um, but, uh, well, we did end up retiring from there, and, um, that was a very neat experience. Um, his, his family all came down for his retirement ceremony, and mine all came down for mine, and. Um, kids remember it a little bit of the, the retirement ceremonies and, um, being 02:22:00in Georgia and that at one point in time. One of the kids said that that's where he's from [laughs], and he's the one that was born in Iceland, but [Sprague laughs] he's like, no, you're not from Georgia. You were just, you were just there.You were just stationed there. Um, so.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about your decision to retire.

RATHKE: John was at a point in time, like I said, he didn't like the squadron that he was in. And, uh, we had talked about staying until he was like, 24 years of of active, and then I would have had, what, 22? Um, but he said he had enough. And, um, so we started looking at options of, of what to do. And, um, lo and behold, um, he ended up finishing his time up in May of, of uh, '07,or '06, 02:23:00excuse me, '06 and then I had that little bit more to go [coughs] to finish up. Um, so I retired in February '07 and. It was a decision to be possibly in the location that the kids could finish their schooling out. And that was one of the biggest reasons.

SPRAGUE: Did you have any feelings or desires to want to stay in the military or?

RATHKE: Oh, yes. Yes. Actually, the day after I put in my retirement paperwork, [Phil Hockey??], Chief Phil Hockey calls me. He and I were stationed at Offutt Air Force base there and he was from Ohio. And we often talked about how we both wanted to be stationed at Wright-Patterson, and neither one of us had had that chance yet. He calls me, he goes, Hey, guess where I'm sitting at. And I'm like, 02:24:00I have no idea. He was. I'm at Wright-Patterson, AFMC assignments. Would you come work for me as chief? I just put my retirement paperwork and he's like, Well, go find out if they hadn't processed tit. You know how us personnel people are [both laugh]. So I checked on it and sure enough, it was processed. So, you know, you know, everything happens for a reason. And I think it was a good thing that I didn't go on to Wright-Patterson because John and the kids would have been in Merrill,Wisconsin, and me in in Ohio. Yeah, that probably wouldn't have quite worked so well. Um, I enjoyed it, definitely. Um, do I wish I would have stayed? Yes. So I could have hopefully put on that master sergeant's stripe because I barely missed making master sergeant the first time. And you know, it is what it is. Sometimes you have to finally say, all right, it's time for the 02:25:00family. It's time for a new, new life, if you're going to call it that.

SPRAGUE: In '06 you finished your bachelors or?

RATHKE: Well, I have I, I have no idea what kind of qualifications as far as in the college world goes. But I know I have had plenty of, uh, college credits. Um, I it was not a thing for me to definitely have that. But, uh, finding out after I got out, yes. I should have probably made sure it was some kind of a certificate of, uh, bachelors or whatever. But I would definitely say it's probably right there if I were to go back and finish everything up, they wouldn't be there [coughs].

SPRAGUE: When you got out. What was that like?

RATHKE: I had a hard time transitioning out. Um, and, and when I tell this 02:26:00story, sometimes people just kind of shake their head and go, whatever. Um, when you, when you go in the service at 18 and a half years old and you're in there until, you know, 20 years later, uh, you don't know what the civilian life is like here. You think you know what it's like, but it's not there. And, um. What do they say? The grass is always greener on the other side [Sprague laughs]. Well, that's what I thought, too, with the civilian sector, that it was going to be, uh, the greener grass. So my first job was to work with Church Mutual Insurance Company, which is a huge employer here in Merrill. Um, when I got my property casualty license for the insurance world, that was probably the hardest test I ever took in my entire life besides promotion tests. And, but, um, I did 02:27:00enjoy working for Church Mutual. Um, it was just that some of the things that you do in the service, I'll just, for instance, if you gave blood while you were in the service, they would basically tell you to take it, you know, like from noon, you know, through about noon or so. And then they would just tell you to go home. Well, because I was giving blood for Church Mutual, I knew it took me a while to give blood. And my boss, when I first started working, said, So, if you're not at your desk, you're on break, you're in the restroom, or you're at lunch or your day is over. Okay. Otherwise you need to have, you'd be on vacation. Okay, fine. So I knew it took it takes me a little while when giving blood. So I asked for an extra hour at lunch time. I come back from lunch. And my boss was like, Why did you take an hour with your lunch? And I said, Because 02:28:00I gave blood. And she's like, Oh, Michele, I'm like, What? And she's like, you're doing something good for the company. It would have been just fine. You didn't need to take that hour, that extra hour. You know, it's just those small things that take place and and fighting through the system of of the VA world, of getting things established in the VA world. I know it it seems like it's a it seems like it's a little easier and, or not easier, ot really easy.t's more of a process now than it was when I first got out. And why I say that is because my son, after seven years of service, he gets so much time with the VA and then he has to find his own medical thing. So I think that that was a good thing that they changed over the years while I was, you know, going through that battle. But after four years, the VA finally came back and said. Oh, you shouldn't be 02:29:00working anymore. You really should be with all your medical situations. And then that's when the next chapter of my life started, which was with the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the VFW. And it definitely felt doubtful for me. And being up in this area of Wisconsin, we don't have the military bases around here. So that was another thing that was hard to adjust to, not being able to go to the commissary, going to the ads or just seeing a uniform walking around. You know, it's just one of those. I mean, you might see a guard, prison guard, walking around with the uniform on. But it's it's definitely a different world once you get out of service, especially if you go in as a youngster and then stay in for a career--I call it a career--and try to understand what civilian life was 02:30:00supposed to be like.

SPRAGUE: Pretty big change.

RATHKE: Yeah, it was, it was huge.

SPRAGUE: Which one of your children served for seven years?

RATHKE: Troy, The oldest one.

SPRAGUE: Troy. Troy Rathke?

RATHKE: Mm hmm.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so then we have four generations of service.

RATHKE: Yeah, we do.

SPRAGUE: At least.

RATHKE: Yeah. Um. The cool thing about going back after I got out of service was just taking my dad on the honor flight to D.C.. Um, and growing up, we had been out to D.C. quite a bit 'cause he has a sister that lives out there, and my dad's like, I don't want to go on this. I'm like, Dad, just trust me this one time [Sprague laughs], you will appreciate. So while we were there, and we went out of Ohio's Honor Flight. And what they do is they ask for a picture of anybody that served that's no longer alive, and then they'll take and put them in front of their monument. For instance, my grandpa [??] And so we had myself, 02:31:00my dad and my son standing there with my grandpa's picture. So it was like an actual four generations, uh, picture being taken. So it was really neat to have that done.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: Yeah. Memories of that is just incredible. And then have my dad, everybody is thanking him for his service. And I'm like going, but what about me? It wasn't about me. It was about him. 'Cause, you know, they never got that welcome home like some of, well, this generation has gotten. My generation has gotten.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

RATHKE: So.Yeah

SPRAGUE: Okay, so, [Rathke coughs] stepping into the VFW world. Tell me about, and I know there's a lot here, I've got, I'm going to try to cover most of it [Rathke laughs]. Um, tell me about your experiences as senior vice, uh, post commander here in Merrill and then as post commander.

RATHKE: So my first, not my first meeting, I would say my third meeting we had nominations and elections and they put me in as senior vice and I was like, you know, Oh, okay [Sprague laughs], sure. Well, the individual that became commander, he got deployed before his first meeting. He was a Navy officer. So I instantly became the commander for six months. And I would say, well, shoot, I don't even know how to spell VFW yet [Sprague laughs]. Um, because we had to wait for his resignation letter, basically. I mean, it's just a process. So we did have an elections and then somebody, Dennis Baron, who was elected for three years, so that gave me some time to learn the ropes and understand the bylaws of our our, our organization. And so while I was post commander, um, we definitely, 02:33:00if the post was Red Carpet, All State and All American, um, awards were given, which is the first ever at that time for the post and I think we were oh, 69, 70-years-old as a post. And so definitely used my leadership skills that I learned in the service and, uh, applied them as needed with the VFW and basically what those awards are, uh, membership based, uh, recruiting. But not only that, um, your community service that you're doing, uh, in the, in the community. And, uh, I'm a firm believer if you're doing stuff out in the community, um, the, the veterans that are out there, they're going to want to be part of the organization because they see the positive, that you're, you're portraying in the community. And, uh. And it just makes a difference. You know, 02:34:00the newspaper clippings or the stuff being on the radio or or every once in a while the TV station, that always helped out. But yeah, so first year took them, took them all the way through that. And then the second year did the basically the same thing and then, uh, finish being quartermaster for four years after that. And then things went from there.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. What would you say to somebody who wants to be a post commander?

RATHKE: Um, different. Definitely. Understand, um, what your role is. You're the. You're the cheerleader. You're the person to to make sure that things are being taken care of. Uh, you're not the person that needs to be doing it all. Um, sometimes that's what happens too much to the post commanders out there. 02:35:00They take take too much of it on themselves and not delegate it. Uh, and if they're, they're thinking about it, uh, it's definitely award winning. Um, I look back at it as when I saw my squadron commanders back then, they always said when, in their speeches, as they were finishing up the command year, um, that this was one of their best jobs that they did. Well, I never was an officer, so. And, and, uh, VFW member. I was able to kind of reenact that stuff, um, as what they did because, of course, you have the goods and the, uh, the uglies with both sides, and then you have the, the perks of, of the position too, that that makes a difference.

SPRAGUE: What were some fun, fun things that you enjoyed in that position? Some of the perks.

RATHKE: Um, going out to Reno, Nevada for the first time as national convention 02:36:00and, uh, getting to meet, uh, a lot of the national officers for the first time, um, and getting to know, uh, people on my Honor Guard squad here. Um, some of them have long since been deceased. Um, they [Sprague gets up to reset] they, ah, one of the Korean War veterans, I'll never forget. He would always charge me a quarter to ride in his van and let me go on a Honor, Honor Guard military funerals details. And I don't know why. It was just a joke that we had between us, too. But it's like, make sure you leave your quarter. Like, Yeah, um, I sure will leave my quarter. Uh, but great guy. Um, gosh, I can't remember his name too. His last name was Simon. Dick Simon. That's who it was. And, uh, I got to 02:37:00know his family pretty decently. Uh, still see his sons running around our VFW every once in a while. And his grandson, uh, that went on the Honor Flight with him. Uh, I was happy to be there when they, uh, they debarked and got to welcome them home and, and all that good stuff. So it's definitely a family-oriented thing if you, if you get it that way and keep it that way.

SPRAGUE: Could you briefly comment on the creation of this post? The Northwoods Veterans Post.

RATHKE: Sure. Um, so the little building that we had, it was a three-story building. You would have to go four steps down to one of the meeting rooms and three steps up. So it wasn't, um, adequate for our handicapped brothers and sisters. And I can remember too many times us trying to bring up our comrades in 02:38:00that were in wheelchairs. They could walk up the steps, but not necessarily in the correct way. Um, and the guy who's helping them out and. And then all of a sudden we're like, you know, you're sitting around our bar at the time, it would be nice to have a new building. It'd be nice--da, da, da. da, da. And after so many years of hearing it, you definitely have to take things into action. Um, so between [coughs] excuse me, between myself, my husband, John Rathke, Paul Russell, Tracy Jo Peck, uh, Alicia Wykes, and of course, there's probably many others that I'm not even thinking of. We definitely started a capital campaign and, uh, started seeking out that grant money that was available here locally. Um, we sat down with the, the different people, and, um, when we showed them our 02:39:00drawings and stuff and they're like, Are you sure this place is going to be big enough for you guys? And in the town we live in, they, they, they kind of balking that this was too big. And, uh, when they said that, we finally started laughing and we felt a little bit more at ease and and so forth. But the fact that they thought that this was going to be too small, it was just a funny kind of a situation at that time. But, um, a lot of support from the community, um, a lot of fundraisers, a lot of brat frys. I can almost say I'm not a brat fan anymore [laughter] because of it. But um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a marvelous building that we have here. And, uh, when we were looking at it, it was to be able to bring in resources, um, because we would have to rely on the bowling alley or this, this place or that place to allow us in. And then they would 02:40:00charge us, you know, to, to be there. And we've been trying to do stuff for our fellow veterans and their families. So when we got this going, it it just kind of helped out quite a bit for this area also. And we have the scouts here, too. They're they're able to use the building for free of charge and where the school was starting to charge them for after school programs.

SPRAGUE: Huh.

RATHKE: Yeah. Believe that.

SPRAGUE: Huh [Rathke laughs] So--go ahead, I'm sorry.

RATHKE: No, go ahead.

SPRAGUE: Um, so then you become District 7's commander. What--Can you tell me a little bit about the differences between being a district commander and a post commander?

RATHKE: Okay, so post commander is just, um, you're taking care of the membership and and leading the membership. Um, usually a post commander can be anywhere of 50 members. well, I shouldn't say that. You can have as low as 25 02:41:00members. Um, uh, when I was post commander, we currently had about 298 members. Um, so post commanders, taking care of the local place. District Commander, you're, you're in charge of, uh, a area usually of, uh, a couple different counties in which I was in uh, over seven counties, um, in, uh, consisting of 32 different posts. So the, the leadership level builds, I guess, if you want to say it [inaudible] or post district. Yeah. Post--District--then State. Um, and then the state takes care of all the districts. Um, so it just keeps building on that leadership abilities.

SPRAGUE: And what were some of the things you would do as a district commander?

RATHKE: You would do inspections on the different posts, make sure that they're 02:42:00doing all the membership requirements and, uh, paperwork that is required to keep the post open. And then, uh, if that post was not complying with stuff, then you took action to either close the post or consolidated the post in coordination with the, um, state commander. Um, we did have, uh, two of the posts that had to be closed down, and that's just due to the membership, um, dwindling because, uh, during World War II, we had the hype of, of, of, of the membership. And then as that era has gone away, um, we, you know, you just have to consolidate to to a smaller, not smaller location, but in two locations, um, because when they came back from war, they had 25 of their good buddies. Hey, 02:43:00let's start a post. And that's what they did. And then you have all these little baby posts, I call them [coughs], that never, um, recruited much or did much. They just, you know, kind of did their own little things amongst themselves instead of [coughs] taking care of the community as a whole.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about being on the Lincoln County Veterans Council.

RATHKE: Oh, yes. Um, so I was, I don't know if we call it what position it's called. Um, but Lincoln County has a council where, um, all the different, um, veteran organizations are part of and you have, um, so anywhere from the American Legion to the DAV [Disabled American Veterans], to the AMVETS to the, uh, veteran, uh, VVA veterans, Vietnam Veterans of America. And what we would do 02:44:00is we would meet, um, three times a year and basically discuss what the different areas of Lincoln County are doing as far as the VSOs, the Veterans Service Organizations, are doing, and make sure we were all doing our Buddy Poppy drives, or our Clover drives or whatever drives the the little flowers represent, um, make sure we weren't all, uh, doing them all at the same time. And then we would coordinate the different parades that take place in Lincoln County. Um, just so that we make sure we have enough veterans representation to march in the parade. Because, as we know, um, not all of us are able to walk long distances. And, um, not only that, they created a wagon, um, for those that can't walk so that they can still be part of the parade also. And um, we would 02:45:00also offer a Veterans Day, um, event. It would be mixed between Merrill here and Tomahawk, and then we would do a summer picnic for all the veterans in Lincoln County. So.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

RATHKE: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell me [Rathke coughs] about, for the VFW, being a chief of staff.

RATHKE: Chief of staff. So I was chief of staff for Don Lynch when he was commander. Uh, we got to do a little bit of fun before COVID hit. Um, and we had his mid-winter in February, and then we went to, um, the legislative conference in D.C. And then of course COVID hit and then that, uh, we weren't allowed to meet, basically, nobody was allowed to meet for about a month or two. Um, then we, we, the VFW, uh, got wise and said, Hey, what about all this zoom stuff that's out there? And we had to do a quick lesson on how to get everybody up to 02:46:00date on zooming, if you want to call it that. And, uh, yeah, he actually, he ended up being, um, um, uh, um, uh, All-State and, uh, no, sorry, All-American State Commander, even though it was COVID during that year. So that was pretty remarkable to still make that happen and keep, uh, keep the mission going for the state, of the VFW.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about your decision to run for State Commander.

RATHKE: Well, it's a process of about eight years [Sprague laughs], I would say.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay. The abridged version.

RATHKE: Yeah. I will give you the abridged version. Um, as I was going to the different, um, state conventions and watching, uh, the state commanders that 02:47:00were leading the state, I, uh, I was like, Oh, if they can do that, I think I can do this. So I started talking to some of the, uh, fellow past state commanders and gettin' their thoughts to see, you know, what do they, you know, do I have the potential? Is it? Because you just never know. It's it's, it's one of those positions you get into. You don't--there's no checklist to check off. It's just you go with your gut feeling. And, uh, especially when you're creating the programs for that year that you're going to be state commander. You know, like, Oh, well, they did that. Oh, yeah, yeah. And you go about, you know, figuring out your, your year, if you want to say. Um, I was actually at Big Ten in, uh, where were we? Um. No, St. Louis. We were in St. Louis, and I leaned over to fill Phil [Jajinski??], who was the past Air Force, or Air Force guy in 02:48:00a past state command. And and I wrote. I wrote State Commander with a question mark, and he looked at me, went like this [nods], and I said, Okay. I said, Talk after break, or talk at break. And he goes, Well, what's your, why? You know, what's your--Are you wanting to, or do you have questions? I said I'm wanting to, but I said I'm I'm the chief of staff right now, so I don't want to like say that, you know, I'm going to start running for this and then be doing it incorrectly. And he goes, Oh, no, there's been others that have done that because--I'm like, okay. So it was kind of like a no-brainer. I talked to my husband to make sure it was going to be okay with him because there is a lot of traveling involved. And he's he basically said, If that's what you want, go for it. So that's the abridged version. And so three years ago I got elected 02:49:00junior-vice, and now here I am, state commander and loving every minute of it, even with the pains in the sides that I get [laughs].

SPRAGUE: So what? What do you what do you see from your position as state commander?

RATHKE: I've I've been taking the approach of when we were in the service we already did the hard work. Now it's time for us to enjoy our families and have a good time. I know we have business at hand that we have to do. Yes, but there's also that there is time for us to have fun and hang out with our friends and family. And across the state, I think that's been a noted thing with myself. Um, and as I went and I have visited different parts of the state, they have noticed that too. And, um, they say it's a breath of fresh air instead of being the, uh, 02:50:00you know, still being that military person that comes in. And, um. What, why are you doing it this way? I said, no. You know. Oh, you're, you're doing it that way. Oh, great. You know, it's a different mindset to some of them, but a, and a breath of fresh air, too.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about your model team.

RATHKE: Team. It's one team. Together, everyone achieves more. And where that stems back from is, I mentioned, my grandpa, Vincent Arntrup. As I was researching his patch that he wore over here, his shoulder patch in the army--it was just a circle with a arrow shooting towards, like, 1:00, if you want to say. And, as I was researching on good old Internet, I couldn't find anything. Well, 02:51:00the now-incoming junior-vice national commander-in-chief, she said she had a connection at PACAF [Pacific Air Forces] or in the PACAF world or whatever. And he was able to find his information or the information to the patch. So I was able to take, and my grandpa'motto or his theme for his, that particular patch, was team. So then I just took, or no, it was one team and I always had liked that. Um, and I was still searching for my own motto or theme. And when that came to me, I was like perfect. So that's what became like and that it's a to, um, recognize him in a way with what he did for me by showing me that I could go into the service and being successful.

SPRAGUE: Any leadership challenges that you run into this year that you'd be 02:52:00willing to talk about.

RATHKE: Any leadership challenge. Um, na--The only thing I would say is every once in a while I run into the thing where I'll suggest that that's a good idea and they're, Yeah, okay. And I wouldn't say this year, but more, more in the years of coming up the chair, is I would suggest something in and they'd be like, Yeah, that sounds really dorky. And then two weeks later, somebody else, male type, would mention it--Oh, that's a great idea. Okay. No, I didn't bring that up. That's okay. And, you know, just go about my business. But as far as leadership challenges, um, I would say the recent leadership challenge was probably the, with all the elections that went on. Um. How how the campaigns 02:53:00that came into play were taking some of the veterans issues and trying to twist the truth to them and and hopefully we'll get it all straightened back out. But I would say that would be probably [inaudible]. Because for the most part, the team that I picked to help support me, they've done a phenomenal job. And I told them what I wanted and how we were going to do this. Not that I was dictating to them, but I said, This is your program. Whatever. Whatever, you're part of the team. I would like you to see, not just do the bare minimum, but do one step more just to make it a better place for all of us, so that we can keep keep the organization around another 20, 30 years, hopefully. Just because war is war, and we can't get any members until we have war [coughs].

SPRAGUE: In the bigger picture. What in addressing that, what do you see as a successful survival strategy or growth for the VFW? A method there for attack.

RATHKE: Um, as we are all serving, we don't think that we're veterans yet until we are out of the service. But in reality, the minute that you finish basic, and there's different terminology of what a veteran is there, because you got the VA's terminology, got the the veterans organizations' terminology, of what a veteran is, and then you got the actual dictionary version of what a veteran is. So if we can get everybody to understand that once they have s,erved in a combat rotation they are eligible to be part of the VFW. Now, we know for a fact, that 02:55:00even myself included, we're not ready to take that on because, A, we're still trying to build our families, our, what you want to call it, life in general. So once we get the kids out of the house, sometimes, then we're looking for something to do. I know of a couple of people, for instance, that's kind of what happened with them. For myself, I started early on before the kids were, they were still in school, but it was a build-up for it, uh, to keep, to just let them know that even if they sign up now and start their time of just listening and learning and understanding what the VFW has been doing and. Because of the benefits we have now was because these people back here took care of us. If we 02:56:00don't continue to take care of these benefits, this generation is not going to have those benefits. And the more the VFW goes bye bye, the less legislators are going to listen to us. And and because, when you go in the service, you're pretty much the most, best physical condition you're ever going to be in your life. And then when you come out, not always, not always that same mentally, physically person that one in. That's a, sometimes a hard thing for people to understand.

SPRAGUE: Any advice to someone taking on your leadership role as state commander sometime in the future? What would you tell them?

RATHKE: Um, well, I've definitely told this to several people. Watch, um, as you're going to the conventions. Listen. Listen to your people. Um, for instance, during my time as junior and senior, everybody kept saying we needed 02:57:00training. We need training. We need training. Well, I made sure there was training this year for [four??] people. You know, of course, there's always that one naysayer, Oh, I can't, I can't make it because I got this going on. Well, you know, it's your priority type of thing. But, uh, watch, listen and learn. Uh, because in the VFW, there is nobody that that has learned every little aspect aspect that is out there.

SPRAGUE: We just passed Veterans Day this year. Do you, what do you do on Veterans Day, other than to stay [inaudible; laughter].

RATHKE: Well, what I did this year, and it was kind of, um, pretty neat, um, I did attend one of the schools, um, here in Merrill, which, uh, Merrill does a fantastic job with Veterans Day. They have, um, let's see, two public schools 02:58:00and then three parochial schools and then the high school and the middle school. So they, um, definitely make the whole week of it of some sort. So I was able to be back at one of them and was able to give a speech there. So that was kind of neat to, to be able to thank the community for allowing me to be a part of this. And uh, not only that, to, to grow up here and grow up, not grow up, but to be part of this community. And then I went down to Plainfield and, um, I was part of their, uh, veterans ceremony and, uh, gave out a 50-year pin to a 98 year old World War II member. So that was pretty touching. Um, I saluted him and he, of course, he being 98, could barely salute. And, uh, that just touched my heart that he wanted to return his, my salute. And then, um, I went to two different 02:59:00military balls, believe it or not, um, with all that going on. So it was kind of neat. It was kind of neat.

SPRAGUE: What was the school you spoke to in Merrill, which one?

RATHKE: St John's Lutheran School.

SPRAGUE: Cool. So. What? What do you think? How do you think your life would be different if you hadn't served in the military?

RATHKE: Ooh! I'd probably still be in Knoxville, Ohio [laughs]. Yee! That's kind of scary to think. I'm. Well, that would be like a Back to the Future movie kind of thing, is what I would be thinking. I have no idea, because, one, I wouldn't probably be sitting here for sure in Merrill, 'cause I would have never met my husband. You know, like I said, a Back to the Future movie. Uh, you know, just 03:00:00one little change could have affected it in some way, shape, or form. But I'm very grateful that I've been able to serve. And, and I still am serving because, uh, the VFW, the national VFW has this thing, it's called still serving. And I was explaining it to somebody not so long ago. Yeah, we'll take the uniform off, but, and that's a physical move. But in our mind, we're still serving, um, because we're still remembering stuff. Not only that, if you do be a part of a veteran's organization, then you're still serving because you're still around your comrades. Uh, that you, you might not have served with them, but they had the same aspects and, and love for the country like, like the rest of us did [coughs].

SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview?

RATHKE: Um, we were at state convention, and, um, one of the young ladies went to the I Am Not Invisible thing. And she came back and she says, Hey, they still that they still have uh, uh, slots available if you guys want to go. So, um, this year there's seven of us out of the 21 on the leadership team that are female. So I instantly started asking if they wanted to go, because we had other things that we should have probably been committed to. But I thought it was a more important thing for us to go to that. And, uh, we went down in my truck. There were six of us, and the person that was watching the GPS is a terrible GPS person [Sprague laughs], and she knows this to this day. And we were in 03:02:00Milwaukee and it should have only took us about 10 minutes to get to the location, it took us 20 [Sprague laughs], but that's okay. We chuckled and laughed and it was just a great time that the six of us, um, got to spend. I'm sitting here, so it was myself, Air Force, Kerry's Army, Carla and Karen are Air Force. Marianne is, uh, Army. So, we had no Navy? No, no. And then, um, Angela. She's Army. So it was Army. Army Air Force Day, basically. And we went down there and started filling out the paperwork. And, uh, Medina--What's her name?

SPRAGUE: Yolanda.

RATHKE: Yolanda. Yeah. Such a sweet lady. And she just allowed us to be a part of her little thing that she all set up and gave us all T-shirts and coins and didn't realize that she did that out of the kindness of her heart. I just thought it was part of the whole set up. But, um, and then, of course, I spoke 03:03:00with you, uh, during, after one of the paperwork processes that we had to do. I just think it's worth people sharing our history, because if it's not, if it's not told, nobody's going to know what it is. And I say that because, as I sat around the kitchen table listening to my grandpa's story, I wish I would have had a recorder going back then. But we didn't. So now it's just a memory of what I can recollect and what what his children can recollect of him telling or sharing. Because usually in the military we don't always talk about some of the ugliest things. So, yeah.

SPRAGUE: So yeah. Anything else you'd like to cover?

RATHKE: Um, I want to thank the Wisconsin Veterans Museum for doing this, because this is definitely a a project that is well, is very much needed, um, to 03:04:00keep, to keep the memory and history alive. Um. So. And, uh, keep doing what you're doing because you love it [laughs]. That's all I would like to say, I guess [laughs].

SPRAGUE: Okay, then, um, that will conclude the interview.