Oral History Interview with Kristen Bauman

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is December 10th, 2022. This is an interview with Kristen Bauman, who served in the United States Navy from September 2000 to January 2022. Kristen entered the service as Kristen Bauman in 2000 and became Kristen Ekiss in 2008. Kristen returned to her maiden name in 2022. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Waukesha Public Library for the I Am Not Invisible Project as part of the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the room. Okay, Kristen, where did you grow up?

BAUMAN: I grew up in Germantown, Wisconsin, so not too far from where we are today.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And for the people who don't know, where is Germantown in Wisconsin?

BAUMAN: Sure. Germantown is about 20 minutes. I'm not good with directions at west, northwest in Milwaukee.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what did your family do there?

BAUMAN: My mom owned a daycare. So, she opened a daycare shortly after I was born so she didn't have to put me in daycare, and she got to take me and my brother with her every day to work.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: So, she owned that daycare for 40, 41 years, retired a few years ago. And then my dad was in insurance sales and real estate.

SPRAGUE: If you don't mind me asking, what was the name of the daycare?

BAUMAN: It was called We Welcome It.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Wow. And what schools did you go to?

BAUMAN: I went to all the Germantown schools growing up, so I went to Kennedy Middle School, Germantown High School, and graduated from Germantown in 1999.

SPRAGUE: So what initially made you start thinking about serving in the military?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, you know, the, the honest answer. Well, I'll give you the, the 00:02:00easy answer I like to give people that I don't know too well is that I love the water. I grew up on the water. My dad always had a boat, so we were always out skiing and tubing and doing fun things on the water. And so that really intrigued me. The vulnerable answer that I give people who really, truly want to know. I struggled a lot with depression in high school. My parents' divorce was really hard on me, and for me, at the age of 19, it was an easy way to escape.

SPRAGUE: Was it an escape for not only family reasons to maybe an escape from Wisconsin?

BAUMAN: I think so, yeah. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: [Both laugh] I have to ask that question because that does happen.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And where did you enter the service?

BAUMAN: I went, you mean, where did I go? The recruiting station?

SPRAGUE: The recruiting station first.

BAUMAN: Yeah, well, it was in Milwaukee. It was, I can't even remember which one 00:03:00it was, but it was local to where I grew up. And then I went to boot camp in Great Lakes.

SPRAGUE: And what time was that? About roughly?

BAUMAN: September.

SPRAGUE: September of 2000. Okay.

BAUMAN: Yeah. I did a full year of college at UWM. Grades were not good. I did not apply myself. I didn't I didn't have any kind of discipline. I didn't really grow up with discipline. You know, like most, most people my age at that time. And so when I started getting a lot of Ds and Fs and realizing college wasn't for me at that time, that sparked another reason for me to join.

SPRAGUE: So, a year before enlisting?

BAUMAN: Yes, Correct.

SPRAGUE: At UWM. Okay, cool. So, tell me about going to boot camp.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, I remember the night before boot camp. My mom and my grandma spent the night in the hotel with me downtown in Milwaukee, and it was right 00:04:00across from the MEP [Military Entrance Processing] station and they put us up in a hotel. It was paid for. I remember us going out and getting a big Italian meal and eating tiramisu with my family. It was my favorite dessert and I just remember having my seabag packed up and my mom and grandma sending me in the bus and that was it. Then I headed down to Great Lakes.

SPRAGUE: So, they had already issued you here seabag? The Navy had?

BAUMAN: I believe, [cough] I think so. Not all the uniforms, but I believe I did have some things that I needed to head down there with.

SPRAGUE: And what was your what was your state that night emotionally?

BAUMAN: Um, gosh, it's hard. 20 something years ago. Yeah, I, I remember being excited and nervous. I don't remember having any regret. I remember it being a good forward, like, forward momentum in my life.

SPRAGUE: Um, did you think you had any inkling at that point how long you would be in the military?

BAUMAN: I had no inkling of anything. [Both laugh] Nothing. I was 19 and, you know, I think I was just doing the next thing that I thought would be a good decision for my life.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. So where did you go for boot camp?

BAUMAN: Great Lakes, Illinois.

SPRAGUE: Oh, sorry. You told me that. Yes. My bad.

BAUMAN: Like many sailors call, "Great mistakes."

SPRAGUE: Great mistakes, huh? [Bauman laughs] I didn't know that you called it that.

BAUMAN: You haven't heard that before. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: I have it. Wow, that's a first.

BAUMAN: Do you know the acronym for the Navy?

SPRAGUE: No. Go ahead, tell me.

BAUMAN: Never again volunteer yourself. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: [Both laugh] Oh, I learned two things today.

BAUMAN: I don't know if I would agree with either of those, but those are just kind of some funny. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Very good. Yeah. Um, so tell me about your arrival there and what that was like.

BAUMAN: Yeah. Gosh, I remember standing in line and getting all the shots is 00:06:00something I remember. I do remember being in a classroom when they give you your, you know, your opportunity out, so to speak, where it's the last choice that you have to say, I don't want to do this anymore. And I remember knowing that I would not make that choice. Um. I remember lots of pushups and what they called making it rain. If we weren't doing what we were supposed to be doing as punishment, we would have to PT in the barracks room until the whole room was sweating. I remember that.

SPRAGUE: Oh.

BAUMAN: [Cough] I remember being sad that we weren't going to use real weapons in boot camp. Yeah, there is swim calls, and you know we had to do some swim 00:07:00regulations and mock drills on the ships and things like that.

SPRAGUE: Just out of curiosity, why no weapons at that point?

BAUMAN: So that was pretty standard in the Navy and in general, I don't know. I think things have changed now. I mean, that was 22 plus years ago. I don't know why it was all a simulator. Nothing was ever real. I didn't use real weapons in the Navy until I was deployed in 2006.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, and in the year 2000, uh, were the two sexes training together or were they separate?

BAUMAN: Yeah. No, we were together.

SPRAGUE: What was that experience like?

BAUMAN: I think at that time there were enough females that I was with that it, there was nothing that really shocked me. You know, I wasn't like the only 00:08:00female in boot camp or anything like that. I did experience that later on in some training classes and training programs where I might be the only female in the room. Um, but at the time, it, um. Yeah, it was fine.

SPRAGUE: What, what were some, who are some of the people that you remember from basic, if you remember any of them?

BAUMAN: Yeah, you know, a couple of months ago, I went through my, um, Recruit Training Command, um, yearbooks, so to speak, or whatever they called it. And, you know, some of the faces look familiar. And I would remember my recruit division commanders. There was a chief and a couple of first-class petty officers, and I don't know if I would remember their names today, but I do remember how they shaped me to have discipline and how they shaped me to have confidence.

SPRAGUE: Can you talk about that any, a little bit more in terms of shaping your discipline?

BAUMAN: Yeah, I you know, before going into the military, my mom says I was always a really good kid and my brother was always a really good kid. She didn't really have problems with us, but I don't think we were ever really taught to focus, to have discipline and to have a purpose behind why we showed up on time or showed up and, you know, provided service for people. There was never really any foundation behind any of that. And so, you know, you can have someone who's, who's a good kid, but if you don't have a purpose behind that, what are you doing it for? And so I remember starting to learn that in basic training, just that purpose that's bigger than myself, which many people who have served say that's why they serve. And I didn't have that when I joined. That was cultivated in me in boot camp through all the training, through all the commands I was at, 00:10:00and the ability to wear the uniform for 22 years.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And boot camp was about how long?

BAUMAN: I think it was about 8 weeks.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And then what happened next?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, I maybe I could backtrack just a little bit to when I originally signed my contract. I signed as a Sonar Technician, and I thought it would be a cool job. You know, when they tell you on paper what it's going to be, it sounds really, really cool. The recruiters are great at doing that. And I remember, I don't remember what organization I was with, if it was a MEPS Program or if it was something else. But I do remember getting to tour a ship and going downstairs and seeing where the sonar techs worked. And I said, Nope. [Both laugh] Please change this. And I remember getting the, I don't know if the recruiters or the MEP station, and I remember getting them to change my rating 00:11:00because it was a dark room. And, you know, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep and it's staring at the computer screen. And I knew I didn't want to do that. And so they changed my rate to Aviation Electronics Technician. And so after bootcamp, I went to training for that, and that was in Pensacola, Florida.

SPRAGUE: It's interesting to me, I have not heard of many people who they've allowed to change their rating, as the Navy would call it.

BAUMAN: Yeah, and it was prior to going in and it was during this like time where I hadn't yet signed the actual enlistment paperwork. It was like the pre paperwork where you're doing your PRTs [physical readiness test], you're kind of like temporarily with the MEPS or the recruiting station and it's prior to that final dot on the line.

SPRAGUE: [Laugh] Well, good for you.

BAUMAN: Yeah. Yeah. [Both laugh]

SPRAGUE: So you're going to training for aviation electronics? Where was that at?

BAUMAN: That was in Pensacola, Florida.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what can you tell me about that training?

BAUMAN: Yeah, that training was I'm thinking 6 to 8 months long. It was a very long training. It was a lot of math. And I hate math. [Both laugh] I remember really enjoying it because we got to train with the Marine Corps. So we got to do PT with the Marine Corps. The Marines were in our class with us, and I remembered regretting joining the Navy and thinking I should have joined the Marines instead because I always was so in awe of how put together they were and their, their discipline was just so much at such a higher level than ours was. Their standards for physical fitness were at a higher level than ours was. And so I just really enjoyed being around the Marines.

SPRAGUE: And what I have to ask, as an Army veteran, what is the relationship 00:13:00between the Navy and the Marines when they're in the same unit? What is that like, that dynamic?

BAUMAN: Yeah, so we were separate units, but we were in the classroom together being taught by the same instructor. So at the time when we were in the classroom, the instructor was in charge of everyone in the class. And as soon as class was done, the Marines were in their own barracks. You know, they had their own command and their their own chain of command and everything in the Navy went their own way, in their own barracks and things, too.

SPRAGUE: Huh. Who marched you to class? Did the Marines do it or did the Navy do it? Or was it both?

BAUMAN: Oh, I'm trying to think. Gosh, I don't remember. I want to say I think we march together like we would combine in the morning and then form up and then march together. And I don't remember if it was Navy and Marine.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. No problem. What was the, did you have any time off after school?

BAUMAN: Yeah, it was like a regular day job. So we would, we would have class during the day. I think it was it was an early morning start, so I think PT was at zero five. Class started at zero six thirty or zero seven, and then we were down by fifteen hundred during the day or sixteen hundred. And then after hours was our free time unless we were on on watch. So they would have us rotate to stand watch in the barracks. And so during those hours, the person who was on watch would stand at a specific spot inside the barracks and make sure there was, you know, no issues going on and no one was fighting. No one was coming in that wasn't supposed to be there.

SPRAGUE: Huh. That was that wasn't a fire watch, was it? It was just a general.

BAUMAN: You could consider it a fire watch. I don't remember if that's what they called it, but it simulated what we would have had to do on a ship if we were on 00:15:00a ship. So.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you would have had the Navy terms for items like they head.

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: The bulkhead.

BAUMAN: Scuttlebutt. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: Scuttlebutt. What is scuttlebutt, by the way?

BAUMAN: Oh, I believe that is the water fountain. But I think it's also when you gossip, too. I can't remember. I can't remember. We don't use terms anymore.

SPRAGUE: That's okay.

BAUMAN: Was a long time ago.

SPRAGUE: That's all good. Yeah. Do you care to share what you spent time away from class, what you were able to do?

BAUMAN: I started getting active into fitness and so I would go to the gym, lifting weights, running.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so that's even after PT in the morning

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: and then a full day of class. What was that like and how, how did you find that doing that fitness after.

BAUMAN: Yeah, I, my first year in college prior to joining my degree was 00:16:00kinesiology pre physical therapy. So I was just always interested in the human body. I was always interested in human movement and how the body work. So, it was just natural for me to start exercising and spending time in the gym.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Anything about, it's called A-School, correct?

BAUMAN: Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Anything that sticks out in your head about that, in that experience.

BAUMAN: So I'm sure we'll get there later. But it was kind of neat that I eventually went back to become an instructor there. The same school that I went to.

SPRAGUE: Right, I saw that in your record. Okay. Interesting. Um, well, maybe we'll just skip ahead and then jump back. What was that like coming back as an instructor there?

BAUMAN: Yeah, it was. It was really interesting because I was again, I was an instructor for both Navy and Marine Corps in the classroom, and that was my first experience teaching. And I eventually in civilian world, went on to become 00:17:00an adjunct instructor for a four-year university, Carroll actually. And that kind of sparked my love of teaching. And it was it was just really neat to come back and be in a position of having influence over young minds.

SPRAGUE: Do you think that was probably the first experience that locked you on to teaching or.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Or were there previous ones?

BAUMAN: No, that was in 2007. No, that was my very first, I think, experience managing a classroom. Um, you had to go through another C-School during the instructor training in order to be certified to teach. And yeah, that was the beginning of that.

SPRAGUE: And what do you find if you could rehash for me, help me out with this? 00:18:00What do you find rewarding? Most rewarding. If you could pick a number one.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: From teaching?

BAUMAN: You mean in all the areas I've ever taught?

SPRAGUE: Yeah, I know. That's probably.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Across the subject matter, if there is one.

BAUMAN: Yeah. I think instilling awe in young minds of things they think they, they never would have thought about. Because I think a lot of young people, you know, I was the same way when I was 19, think they know everything. There's nothing else that they can learn. And when you can just spark that awe in curiosity in someone that at the same time can instill confidence in them and can help make them more successful in the future.

SPRAGUE: Huh. Wow. Okay. Um, so you get done at A-School.

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: Where do you go next?

BAUMAN: C-School. So A-School in the Navy is like the basic training for you to 00:19:00get your rating. So other services would be their MOS [military occupational specialty code]. So that gave me my rating of Aviation Electronics Technician. Now C-School is the more specialized training where I learned how to work on the equipment that I was going to be assigned to. And so I ended up becoming a CAT IIID Technician on E-2C Hawkeyes. And so I went to San Diego, California. Specifically, I was at the Marine Corps Air Station Miramar for a C-School after I graduated from Pensacola.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And for the civilians in the room [cough] who, there are none today, are now or later in our lives are. [Both laugh] Tell us. Tell me. Help me out. What is a CAT IIID? Help me out with that.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And the Orion thing.

BAUMAN: Yeah. Yeah. So the E-2C Hawkeye is the, the rotary plane that you see with the big dome on top. It has that big circle on top. I don't think they use 00:20:00the E-2C anymore. I think it's transitioned into something else, but it's basically an electronic warfare countermeasure plane that communicates in between the ship and the fighter jets. And that's about all I remember 20 something years ago. But the CAT IIID was one of the communication pieces of equipment on the plane.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Without telling me anything classified. Was it a radio? Was it a toaster oven in general or what?

BAUMAN: You mean what it looked like or what?

SPRAGUE: Yeah. What it what purpose that it serve?

BAUMAN: Basically communication. And none of it was classified anyways. I actually didn't get my security clearance until my next rating, which we'll get to. But, um. Yeah, I, I don't even remember what I would consider it to be, but it provided a communication within that.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: The aircraft.

SPRAGUE: Um, okay. So you're in Miramar. You're at C-Scho -- you're attending 00:21:00C-School there?

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell me what that's about.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I went from being on a solely Navy base to now being solely on a Marine Corps base. So the entire environment was different. The way you entered the base was different. The security on the base was different. The barracks was different. I mean, you were in Marine Corps land. And I believe Miramar is where Top Gun is at as well. I never got around to seeing that. That was in a different, you know, classified area of the base. But the most notable thing from being in Miramar is that I was there on 9/11.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, I noticed that. So tell me, tell me about what that experience was like. And do you remember where you were when it happened?

BAUMAN: I do. So, my mom, my grandma and my aunt had just finished a visit with me and they had not left San Diego yet. So they, like they were planning to fly 00:22:00out the morning of 9/11. So they were at the airport when everything, when it happened. And so I remember seeing them the night before, their flight was going to be earlier so I did not see them that morning. And I remember waking up and ironing my uniform. At that time we had the really old dungarees with the light blue shirt and the dark blue pants, and I was ironing all the creases in my uniform, watching the news, and that's when I saw what was going on.

SPRAGUE: And what did you think at first?

BAUMAN: Yeah. I think it was just shock of like, what? What is going on? And at the time I never, it didn't cross my mind of how it would impact the military. It was it was more of just the shock of what's, what's going on, what's happening.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so then you come in work.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that.

BAUMAN: You know, we marched in, we got there, and I just remember watching the news all day with the instructor and also everyone else being in shock. I remember the whole base going on lockdown. They had barricades up. I remember seeing so many armed Marines and on the bases, it is very common to see many, many Marines and sailors walking around unarmed like that's just normal. And after this, it just seemed as if everyone, you know, was armed, had a long gun on them.

SPRAGUE: Hmm. So you spent the whole day basically watching TV in the classroom.

BAUMAN: Until we were getting, you know, got any type of word of what was going on and what was happening next.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So if you could what you know, without going through each day, [summise??] what happened after that point while you were still in C-School.

BAUMAN: Yeah. I don't have a very good recollection of specifics. I think after that, I do remember, you know, the Navy can be known for being very kind of casual and just like lax in their standards. And I mean, I'm sure as an Army veteran, you've seen that before, too. And, you know, you know, the Navy gets chuckled at sometimes. And I do remember after that day, things changed. It was a lot less lax. It was a lot more being accountable. Showing up on time. Like, no more excuses. Like, we're you having to now fight.

SPRAGUE: I have to ask, is there anything else you know, the outside indicators 00:25:00of showing up on time? Any things that stick out in your head that really pointed to that change, people being armed?

BAUMAN: I think that just the climate, just the environment. It was a lot less joking around and laughing. It was a lot less casual. It was a lot more focus and intentional. That's about the biggest thing I can remember. And it was different because my, my, my rate was not a combat rate. So, you know, we had no combat training. I didn't have combat training at that time. I did later on. But so our job was very different than those who were going to eventually be on the front line. So it's just important to note that, um, you know, what I 00:26:00experienced was a lot different than somebody with a different rating or otherwise had experience at that time.

SPRAGUE: So, uh, if you go through C-School, any other memorable experiences or people that, that stick out?

BAUMAN: I mean I, I, you know, had my experience of going to Tijuana and coming back and which I think was, you know, the, um, I think the, the, the experience that everyone that goes to a city probably has when you're 20, 21-years-old.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Um, well, you were at C-School. Any gender discrimination or anything like that? Any.

BAUMAN: Not that I can think of. You know, I. I know it happens and I'm very, I did a lot of research on military sexual trauma in my graduate program. I 00:27:00personally did not experience it. There were things I came across that I knew were like, this isn't right. That's not right. But it wasn't a part of my story.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so where did you go next?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, after San Diego, I went to Norfolk in Virginia. I was really, really, really disappointed. I ended up on Shore Duty. So, I was young, single, no kids, and I really wanted to travel the world. And they sent me to Norfolk, Virginia for two years to start out my two years on Shore Duty.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember the unit that you were in there?

BAUMAN: Aviation Intermedia--Intermediate Maintenance Detachments. So, it was AIMD Norfolk. So basically, we were not in a squadron. Our building was next to all the squadrons and so we got all of the equipment from the E-2C Hawkeyes that 00:28:00needed to be repaired into our building. And we did all the repairs and then sent them back out.

SPRAGUE: Was there any level of, just out of curiosity, were you, were there, what would have happened if you were not able to repair that, or was that not a possibility? Did it go up another level or were you the top level of maintenance or how did it?

BAUMAN: Yeah, we were the I believe we were the last level of maintenance. You know, if we couldn't figure it out there, there was we'd have to send it off somewhere I believe. But there was usually enough people within that detachment that knew how to make the repairs.

SPRAGUE: So, what was a typical working day like there?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, you know, I was in I was in a shop. I'm trying to think if I can, you know, for some reason I have this weird visual of remembering the floor 00:29:00was this ugly vinyl flecked black and white, you know, seventies colored floor. And, um, you know, we had tools hanging on the wall, and they each had their specific spot, and no one went home until every tool was hung back up. And the shop was always cold. So, we always had a jacket on, even if it was in the summer. And, and the machines that we use to do the diagnostic work on the equipment were, were huge, like really big and really huge. And, you know, I'm sure I have no idea what it looks like now, but I'm sure they can, you know, do something tiny or remote-control. I don't know. But I, you know, huge pieces of equipment, really cold. And a typical day would be grabbing, grabbing the equipment. Um, you know, the equipment would come to a different area in the building, and we would grab it, bring it back to the shop, do the diagnostic 00:30:00work, order any of the parts that needed to be ordered on the computer. And then those parts would likely show up that day. Or within that same week we grabbed the parts, come back and do the repairs, and then when the piece was repaired, you take it back and send it out.

SPRAGUE: So, uh, you may have mentioned this earlier. Well, how did you find being an Aviation Electronics Maintainer or whatever? The specialist. Sorry, what? How did you find that? How did I find that? Yeah.

BAUMAN: You mean how did I find out about the job, the specific rating?

SPRAGUE: No, how was it as an experience for you?

BAUMAN: Oh I hated it. [Both laugh] Which would lead to my, you know, once we get there will lead to how I ended up changing my rate. But I'm not good at math. I do not, you know, as difficult as human beings can be, I did not like working with things that couldn't talk back to you. I, I really enjoy communication.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Um, okay. So how were shop dynamics there? What was that like?

BAUMAN: Yeah, you know, I would say in that shop, if I had experienced any type of gender discrimination, it could have been there, and I wouldn't see as much discrimination as I would just very inappropriate humor. Things that would not at all ever be okay today and things 20 years ago that were normal in the Navy that still were kind of shocking to me. So, um, you know, it wasn't any type of sexual abuse or, you know, physical hands on of anything. It was just a whole, it was a whole dynamic.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Um, how about in terms of, uh, people of different race or 00:32:00different background?

BAUMAN: Um, you know, I will have to say that my awareness of any type of racism or ethnic discrimination at that time, I just didn't have any. I, I grew more of an understanding and an awareness of racial discrimination, I think, as I matured, as I got older. And also, as I adopted children of color. So now it's very, I'm very aware, always looking for it. Back then, I was not.

SPRAGUE: Ok. Any memorable people that you you'd care to mention from that time? Maybe recognize for mentorship or something like that?

BAUMAN: Um. Yeah, I don't think so. Um, I mean, there was. You know, if I could share, too, there was a there is a situation I went through when I was there where I applied to a program called Seaman to Admiral-21, which was the Navy's 00:33:00way to try to take enlisted active-duty personnel and have them become an officer. And that was my main goal after I joined the Navy, eventually was to get commissioned. And so I did. I applied for this program. I made E-5 in two years, which was unheard of, actually almost less than two years. My evaluations were always, you know, 4.0 and above. I remember in twenty-one and a half years in the Navy, I was only late once ever. Um, yeah, I really prided myself on a work ethic, on being reliable, be responsible, showing up on time. And I remember applying to this program and checking all the boxes I had all of my, you know, extra collateral duties I was doing. And, you know, I showed up for my 00:34:00interview and I remember feeling so good about that interview. My uniform was spotless, my boots, you could see your face in them. And I remember being called by the commanding officer on a weekend to be told that I was selected as an alternate. And I do remember the person who was selected above me. I, at the time, was the Assistant Command Career Counselor and had to help my, um, I guess this person who was going against me, I was responsible for getting a lot of their information out of their service record to help put their package together. And I remember seeing this person show up. His uniform was not ironed or not nearly as presentable as I know mine was. And he had a drug waiver getting into the military and his evaluations and things were below where mine 00:35:00were at. And I remember finding out that he got selected and I didn't. I just remember that being so discouraging. And so, you know, I don't know if that was a gender discrimination thing. I don't know what that was, but I remember it just putting like a bitter taste in my mouth.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And that was the Seaman to Admiral-21 program?

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Did you take any other shots or opportunity trying to become an officer later in your career?

BAUMAN: I did, yeah. I once I was a reserve -- reservist. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Tell me about your thinking about wanting to become an officer.

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I. I felt like I always had that leadership in me, and I wanted to lead. Um, you know, there's a lot of enlisted people give officers a 00:36:00really hard time and say, they're the ones that aren't working and the ones that are the ones that are working and. And, you know, there's -- there's some truth to that, too. But I always, part of, part of who I am is striving for that next level always. You know, the next, you know, wanting to further my education, wanting to further my career, wanting to further my financial situation. I just knew for me that wanting to become an officer was, was that.

SPRAGUE: One of the things you listed on your intake form was 2003, maybe at Norfolk, with the Navy Fitness Challenge.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell us a little bit about that, please.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I was. So, I'm thinking I don't remember if I was at Norfolk still or if I had transferred to Dam Neck yet. I think that was in that time period.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: But Dam Neck, Virginia, is very close to Norfolk in Virginia Beach.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, we can go on to Dam Neck, let's do that. Yeah.

BAUMAN: So, you want to hit the Navy for this challenge after that?

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Yeah, let's say that. Yeah, we'll come back to it.

BAUMAN: Okay.

SPRAGUE: So. Okay, so tell me. I'm curious. So, your two years at Norfolk?

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And then you were transferred to or a permanent change of station to?

BAUMAN: Yeah, my two years was up.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: And so, my first two years were Shore Duty. And so in the Navy, you're supposed to go from shore. From Shore Duty, then to Sea Duty. And so as a to two years on shore, four years on sea. So, I was excited. Okay, you're not going to select me for becoming an officer. At least finally send me out to sea like I wanted to go travel. Put me on a ship. You know, there are so many older sailors not wanting to go out to sea because they have families. And here I am, ready and willing and wanting to volunteer. And I got sent to, uh, Dam Neck, Virginia, 00:38:00with a squadron that was considered Sea Duty, but it was a remote-controlled squadron that never went out to sea.

SPRAGUE: Hmm. Don't you think that's a little unusual?

BAUMAN: Um, it was. It is a little unusual. I, at the time, could not promise I wanted to re-enlist. Which is why they didn't send me somewhere that required a re-enlist.

SPRAGUE: Ah. Okay. And what was the name of that unit?

BAUMAN: That was VC-6.

SPRAGUE: VC-6. And what does that stand for?

BAUMAN: I don't even know anymore. But the VC squadrons were the remote controlled drone squadrons.

SPRAGUE: And we're now past 9/11, were those drones are being used overseas, in theater or?

BAUMAN: Yeah, no, these were all used stateside, and they were used for target 00:39:00practice. So the drones, they did not have any weapons on them. They didn't have cameras on them that were recording anything. They were very large. They were over six feet or six feet wingspan, bright orange. And we would launch them off of our launching pad at the squadron, and then the fighter jets would use them as target practice.

SPRAGUE: Huh.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Where was the range?

BAUMAN: Over the sea. Over the ocean.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: That was all over the ocean.

SPRAGUE: Uh huh.

BAUMAN: And so then they would get simultaneously shot down. They weren't actually shot, but they would eventually drop into the ocean and release this green dye and a helicopter would come pick it back up and then return it to our squadron.

SPRAGUE: And your role there was to do what with that?

BAUMAN: The same thing. It's all maintenance. So when the drones would come back, we would empty them with the water, we would flush out all the saltwater, 00:40:00would do any repairs that had to be done and then get them ready for their next launch.

SPRAGUE: So I would imagine backing out a little bit here, that you were maybe a little bit disappointed that you didn't get Sea Duty?

BAUMAN: I was, very much so. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Um, and at this point being passed up for officer not getting Sea Duty, uh, I'm thinking. You're thinking right?

BAUMAN: I'm done.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Uh, okay. What other experiences happened in Dam Neck that you remember?

BAUMAN: Yeah. I think my time there was very short. Since my, my enlistment was only four years. So, we're putting in boot camp A-School, C-School, AIMD, and VC-6 in a period of four years. And so, I was only in Dam Neck, I think, for maybe a year.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, your initial enlistment with the Navy was just four years in length.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay, so what happened? Okay, let's get to the Navy Fitness Challenge.

BAUMAN: That was probably one of the highlights of my career.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell us about that.

BAUMAN: Let me backtrack for a moment, because you asked about notable people when I was at AIMD, and I would say I met one of my lifelong friends, Karen, when I was there. We were roommates. She was also another Aviation Technician who went on to become an EOD, Senior Chief Master Diver.

SPRAGUE: Um, do you think it would okay or appropriate if you gave her, her family name or full name or?

BAUMAN: Yeah, absolutely. Karen McMillan. She's retired now. Um, and she. Yeah, we were roommates. Love her to death. We still keep in contact. Um, and her and I would work out together. We did obstacle courses together and mud runs and all 00:42:00of the extra fun fitness things that we could do outside of, um, off base and on base. And this Navy Fitness Challenge opportunity came up and we, I remember this and I might get emotional, but there were, there were quite a few of us that were interested and I don't remember the exact strategy they used for picking people for the team, but I remember that her and I drew straws because there was one spot left for a female and she drew the straw that got selected for the team. And I didn't and she gave me her spot.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Holy cow.

BAUMAN: I know.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Huh. I mean, what did you have to say to her at that point?

BAUMAN: You know, I was still young and immature, so I don't think I really can 00:43:00appreciate it then as much as I do now. But yeah, I was just shocked that she would do something like that with as much as she loved fitness as I did.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. So was it 2003 or thereabouts, you think?

BAUMAN: I want to say, yeah, about 2003. And, you know, I'm happy to donate the videos. I have those files and everything. Yeah, and pictures. But it was put on by ESPN, so it was a very large production. And at the time it was just a huge thing. And the whole ESPN crew came to the base, and we were on an aircraft carrier, and we had, I think there were five different challenges that we were tasked with, and each team had a different color. And it was just a really amazing opportunity. And I remember like in the video, what you would see is my 00:44:00team walking on the flight deck of the aircraft carrier through smoke. So that's how cool it was. Like they blew smoke in front of my face. You know, we had the, the stern looking like that focused face and, you know, walking out, getting ready to do our challenge. And it was a lot of fun.

SPRAGUE: Do you remember which aircraft carrier?

BAUMAN: I don't, but I could look.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Uh, and you had mentioned tell me about some of those five different tasks.

BAUMAN: Yeah. The, the one that I remember that was the, the most challenging, but also the most fun was we were pulling an F-14 on our backs. So the five of us on the team, we had this harness strapped to us, and then that harness was hooked to the front of an F-14 and we were timed pulling it. It was a certain amount of distance, but we had to, as a team, pull it across this line, and then 00:45:00our time was measured against the other teams.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Were the team members from your unit or from all over?

BAUMAN: They were all over.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And I'm assuming they're all Navy.

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What were the other four parts of the challenge?

BAUMAN: There was a tug of war. There was, um. It was a sea bag challenge where we had to run all the way up the ladder while in the ship somewhere. Well, that was one of them. That was the, the running up the stairs was one of them. And then another one was we had to somehow get a whole bunch of really heavy full sea bags from one part of the ship to the other. And. And there is something else that I can't remember what it was. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What do you, I mean, thinking back on that, what, what are your 00:46:00thoughts? What do you, you know, what are your feelings about that? About doing that?

BAUMAN: Yeah. It's like, wow, I got to do that. That was cool. I was on ESPN. I met the world's strongest man.

SPRAGUE: Who was the world's strongest man?

BAUMAN: I don't remember his name. I can see, I can see his face. This is a massive, massive guy.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Okay.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Anything else on ESPN challenge you'd like to share?

BAUMAN: Um, no, I don't think so. Um. Yeah. I just think the green team dominated.

SPRAGUE: You were on the green team?

BAUMAN: I was on the green team.

SPRAGUE: And did you say you came in first place? [Bauman nods affirmatively] Wow. So I'll bet you were talking smack. [Laugh]

BAUMAN: Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. [Laugh] So what's it like after leaving that and going back to the regular [laugh] Navy?

BAUMAN: Yeah. You mean going back to, like, the Reserves?

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

BAUMAN: That was a, oh, that was a huge transition, if you're --

SPRAGUE: Right. Yeah. Let's go ahead. And we're going to step into that.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So, you get done in Dam Neck. Your four-year enlistment is up. What happens next? Help me out with that.

BAUMAN: I enroll back at UWM again. And I actually ended up leaving two months early, so I only served for active duty for, I think about three years and ten months. So at that time, you could request an early release due to a numerous different reasons and they approved it due to me being able to start school on time. So, if I would have done the full four years, I would have not been released until the end of September and the semester would have already started.

SPRAGUE: And you went back to U of M to, to start school for?

BAUMAN: Kinesiology, again.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And, uh, what was your I've got to ask, you know, what was your 00:48:00thoughts about leaving active-duty and going to the Reserves at the time?

BAUMAN: I think at the time I didn't know what it was, but it was probably some grief of leaving this life that was really exciting. And, you know, where I had a purpose, of leaving the structure, the environment of, um, being around people who were like minded and had the same purpose that you did. But I was still at the same time, um, 2004, I was only 23, so I was still pretty young.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so. Go to UWM. Did you decide you wanted to be in the Reserves while you were there? Tell me about your thinking.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I signed up for the Reserves when I was still in Virginia, so I 00:49:00knew I wanted to stay in the Navy at the time. I think I was open to coming back active duty. I really just wanted to finish my degree. That was, that was my goal.

SPRAGUE: And what, if you don't mind me asking, which Navy research unit were you in at the time?

BAUMAN: At the time, I was in, um, Great Lakes. Went back to Great Mistakes. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: So drilling at Great Lakes, going to school up here in Milwaukee. Okay. And tell me, how did that go and what that was about?

BAUMAN: You mean the drilling or the school or all of it?

SPRAGUE: All of it.

BAUMAN: Yeah. I mean, I was living the best life that any 23-year-old could have ever imagined. I was getting drill pay. I was working part time. I think I did front desk at a car dealership for a while. Um, I became a personal trainer, and 00:50:00I was racing motorcycles, had a crotch rocket, spent a lot of time in the gym, and then I was a full-time student.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what happened next?

BAUMAN: Um, so I did that for 18 months, so I believe a full school year and a half. And then I got the notice that I was getting deployed.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what was what, was what was your first reaction to getting that notice?

BAUMAN: Got to be f-ing kidding me. That's like all I wanted to do is come back and finish this degree that I had tried to start, you know, at the age of 18 and, you know, here I am again. Something is interrupting it. Okay.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So you did. You had to put the degree aside for the moment.

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Was there any fear when you got the deployment notice?

BAUMAN: You know, there was. I do remember kind of like a sinking feeling in my stomach. Of what, what is this going to be like? What am I getting into? I didn't know. I was, I was going as what they were called Individual Augmentee. So it was an IA. So I wasn't going with my unit that I served with in Great Lakes, I was going on my own and there were a lot of Individual Augmentees pulled in from all over the country to create this new unit, um, for Customs and Border Inspection.

SPRAGUE: Right. One of the questions that I was curious about was trying to figure out how the Navy, Navy personnel became involved in this Customs unit.

BAUMAN: So the Army, we actually worked for the Army.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: So another fun name that they gave us was the NARMY.

SPRAGUE: The NARMY? [Both laugh]

BAUMAN: Yes, I know. So we were on an army base working for the Army. I actually from that deployment, I got an Army Commendation Medal.

SPRAGUE: I saw that.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay, so let's. Yeah. So let's start at the beginning of this deployment. So talk about getting ready, mobilizing, and getting ready to go to Kuwait.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So we were sent to Williamsburg, Virginia. Is it Williamsburg? Williams--? Yeah. Williamsburg, Virginia. We, I'm trying to think.

SPRAGUE: And this would have been August, July 2006?

BAUMAN: No, earlier, I believe it was earlier in the year than that.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: I think. Um, yeah, the specific months are very fuzzy for me. Um, but in that year 2006, we had all that training and then a full, I'd say. It was 8 months total with training and time in-country.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. I have you here roughly September 9th, '06 to April 17th, '07, about 8 months.

BAUMAN: Yeah, it might have been earlier than that, but somewhere around then.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. The mobilization would have been of course before that. Yeah. Where did you fly out of in the States?

BAUMAN: You mean when we left?

SPRAGUE: Yes.

BAUMAN: So I believe through, I think it was out of Virginia.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And did you fly directly into Kuwait or?

BAUMAN: I remember stopping in maybe Turkey? We stopped somewhere once and then ended up flying into Kuwait. But yeah, that training was the first time I used 00:54:00actual weapons in the military.

SPRAGUE: Well, the mobilization training. Wow. Huh. And where did you land in Kuwait?

BAUMAN: Gosh, I don't even remember.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: There were several American military bases throughout Kuwait, and I was stationed at Ali Al Salem.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What was the name of your unit at Ali Al Salem?

BAUMAN: It was, Navy, I can't remember the entire acronym, but like Navy Customs Battalion.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Or Navy Mobile-- mobilized Customs Battalion and NMCB, I think.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: I can check on that.

SPRAGUE: No worries. We always just try to ask people that helps us place you on the battlefield. So, where you are?

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Or at least we think, we think we do. So, what were the conditions like when you got off the plane?

BAUMAN: I, so I do remember the first time I stepped off the plane, like being hit with this, like, wall of hot, dry air. And have never experiencing that kind of heat before. And looking at one of the thermometers that was hanging up and I think it was like 120 or 130, I mean, it was well over 100 degrees.

SPRAGUE: How, how long did it take to acclimatize?

BAUMAN: It wasn't too long. You know, we were prepared for the, you know, we had all the gear that we needed, but I don't remember it being too long before it was like, okay, this is just how it's going to be.

SPRAGUE: And where, where, what kind of sleeping conditions did you have at Ali Al Salem?

BAUMAN: Yes. We had these little pods. They were like the the shipping 00:56:00containers. And I remember sharing a room with one girl. So we each had a a single bed and we put, we would put up a curtain to give us some privacy in between there. And then there was enough room in there for each of us to have a little, you know, one of those little plastic dressers and then a little closet where we could hang our uniforms. And that was about it. The showers were in a different pod in a different area. Um, and then of course, we had the DFAC [Dining Facilities Administration Center].

SPRAGUE: How was the DFAC?

BAUMAN: It wasn't awful, you know, it was open late at night and we could get ice cream and cookies and stuff like that. But I don't remember the meals being really awful. If you wanted really good food, you would just walk to the airport side. [Both laugh]

SPRAGUE: Well, tell me about that. Why? Why did the Air Force have better stuff?

BAUMAN: I don't know. Has anyone ever been able to answer that?

SPRAGUE: [Both laugh] No, they haven't. We're not sure how they do it.

BAUMAN: I know they had air-conditioned rooms and their, their rooms were like hotel rooms. And there I do remember the separation from the army base to the Air Force. And I remember it being gravel, gravel, gravel, gravel, brick road.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Yeah. So, uh, did you have air conditioning in your Connex?

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm. I think. I don't remember. Maybe we did. Maybe it fans. We had something. I don't remember if it was air conditioning or fans, but.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So these Conexes had enough room for two single beds and fine curtains. Little plastic dresser. Maybe you had a TV in there or?

BAUMAN: I don't think so. Okay. I had my laptop, but I remember going to the, um, like the MWR [Morale, Welfare and Recreation] Conex or whatever building 00:58:00they had for TVs and movies and, and stuff like that.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. What, what did you do if you had any, in your spare time, in your downtime?

BAUMAN: Yeah. You know, we, we were in Kuwait, so it was not, we were in a combat zone. So, there was quite a few things to do on the base if needed. So, we worked 12-hour shifts and I believe it was 6 days a week. Um, and so in the off time, I remember sleeping, um, drinking coffee, eating, getting massages. There was a little massage booth there, um, working out.

SPRAGUE: How are the gyms?

BAUMAN: It was okay. Yeah. It didn't have equipment like it did at the other 00:59:00bases, but it was, it was enough.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did you have a chance to go into town at all?

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What was that like?

BAUMAN: It was really interesting. I remember the, the roads, it was all dust on the side of the road. And you could tell the difference between the road and the side of the road. But there is also no lines. So, it was probably large enough to be a three or four lane highway, but the Kuwaiti citizens would make it six or seven lane highway or sometimes a one lane highway if they took up the whole road. But I remember knowing that the defensive driving I was required to take was very helpful and the driving was just really different than it is. Well, I mean, you in some areas of the country, it's probably the same, but the driving was different.

SPRAGUE: For the uneducated, what is the, how is it different? In what way?

BAUMAN: It is there is no rules. I don't remember seeing speed limits. There were abandoned cars on the side of the road. Some of them, you could tell, had 01:00:00been burned and some of them were just abandoned. And I don't remember people using their blinker. It was it just felt like a kind of a free for all on the freeway.

SPRAGUE: Were there any dangers from while you were working on base from scorpions or spiders or anything that you noticed?

BAUMAN: I mean, I know they were there, and I we saw scorpions and spiders, but I don't remember them ever coming into our sleeping area. I don't ever remember that being a fear.

SPRAGUE: Okay, how about I have to ask you about it? Because it's come up recently. How about burn pits? Any dealing with that or?

BAUMAN: They were around? I don't ever remember being educated on what they were. I do remember always seeing smoke and not knowing what it was and.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Any burn pits near Ali Al Salam.

BAUMAN: Probably, but not that I can remember.

SPRAGUE: No worries. So, any other trips into town where you were able to work, buy things from locals or interact with them?

BAUMAN: Yeah. I got to go to the embassy and that was an earned trip. So, I remember hearing some type of award I remember earning. Got me to go see the embassy for the day. And I just remember the, you know, the, the parts of Kuwait we would visit, just if I remember it being very dusty, and then all of a sudden there's the embassy and it's like bright green grass and it's just a different once you walk back onto U.S. soil.

SPRAGUE: How did that feel to walk back on U.S. soil at the embassy compound?

BAUMAN: Yeah, it was you know, it didn't feel any different because I knew we were we were still in Kuwait. But there was just it was a touch of home knowing, 01:02:00you know, this technically is U.S. soil. And we were in a building with other U.S. citizens and, yeah, but I remember it being very beautiful.

SPRAGUE: So tell me a little bit about your, your working conditions when you were working there, doing your job.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So basically, I describe it to people like TSA at the airport. But you pick TSA up and put it in the middle of the desert. Mm-hmm. And that's basically what we did all day. So our, our job was to make sure that the troops that were coming home from the combat zones, from Iraq and any, anywhere else where they were in a combat zone, we were tasked to make sure they were not coming back with anything dangerous.

SPRAGUE: And what would you be looking for typically?

BAUMAN: Live rounds. You know, we were checking weapons, sometimes like grenades 01:03:00or any other, quote unquote "war trophies" that, um, you know, as someone who has served, I understand where people want to bring them home, but unfortunately, they weren't allowed to bring them home. And so we would have to confiscate a lot of different things.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So what if you could share just a couple experiences of the things that you guys found?

BAUMAN: Yeah, we did find a light grenade in some of the boot. So they shoved it all the way into the front of their boot. And I do remember it was an intentional act of trying to just bring it home with them. But I don't know why.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

BAUMAN: A lot of times we would find handfuls of live rounds in the bottom of someone's bag. And the issue with that is because they did carry their weapons on the plane, but they're supposed to be, you know, unloaded. So.

SPRAGUE: So, at that point, I would imagine you're calling the MPs or somebody 01:04:00or detaining them or something. I mean.

BAUMAN: So, prior to them going through, we had an amnesty box. So, if they had anything that they knew they weren't supposed to have. I mean, a lot of a lot of times it was knives like pocketknife they were supposed to have with them either. And so, these were, I'm trying to think, like how they got that stuff home. There is a way to get that stuff home. But they weren't supposed to. They were not allowed to have it on their person while they were on the plane.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm.

BAUMAN: So, we had an amnesty box where they could, you know, last resort, give up things they knew they weren't supposed to have. Um. Yeah. We just confiscate porn, too, you know, like magazines. Um. Yeah. Uh, we were also tasked to confiscate, I think, a lot of those, um, illegal movies, you know, that were burned and sold illegally and.

SPRAGUE: Oh, yeah.

BAUMAN: So, there was this whole list of things like we technically were supposed to confiscate, and then there was a list of, like, this stuff 01:05:00absolutely cannot go.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Any illegal drugs or?

BAUMAN: Um, I don't remember the illegal drugs or anything. I mean, sometimes it was pills that were getting the person's name and things like that, but.

SPRAGUE: How about battlefield souvenirs?

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: What would be some typical things that might get confiscated?

BAUMAN: So I do remember I didn't experience this personally, but I do remember it happening. Body parts, you know, I remember being briefed on that. Um, yes. It was not did not happen to my unit, but I do remember being briefed on it. You know, that was one of the things that potentially could come through. Um, yeah, a lot of it was, you know, shell casings. Um.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. So obviously, you're not fixing aircraft electronics at this time which had been your previous MOS or rating, sorry. And you were there as an Individual Augmentee. Um, what, it seems to me is the timing of it you were deployed there over the holidays. What was that like?

BAUMAN: Yeah, I remember. You know, I had a teeny tiny little Christmas tree in in my burning area, and we had a tree in our work area. And I remember being sent a lot of things. I mean, it was the amount of stuff that was mailed to us and not just individually, but just to the unit in general, was overwhelming. I mean, I did gain weight while I was there. [Both laugh] You know, there is never a lack of cookies and treats and snacks.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, if you could share with the listeners what is it like to be 01:07:00deployed and away from your family during Christmas time, during the holidays?

BAUMAN: Yeah. It was it different for me because I had just spent the previous you know, I had a I was home for a year, but I had spent the previous four years away. And so I hadn't been home for every holiday, especially being new in the military. And as young as I was, I didn't have a ton of leave time saved up. So, it really wasn't anything big for me to be away. And also being so young and not being married and having, not having any kids, I think it wasn't a big issue.

SPRAGUE: What did you do in your downtime while you were there?

BAUMAN: Um hmm. Yes. So, working out a lot of working out the movies, sleeping, eating.

SPRAGUE: Okay, um, I assume there was no alcohol in country.

BAUMAN: We did have on Christmas or New Year's. I think on New Year's we were allowed to have like a nonalcoholic beer or something like that. But no, no alcohol.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: However, I do have to share. My grandma certainly rum balls. [Both laugh]

SPRAGUE: And they got through.

BAUMAN: And they got through. And this is my grandma who does not drink and she does not she's not a big drinker and not big into alcohol, but she's certainly very, very strong rum balls.

SPRAGUE: Nice. Got to love it.

BAUMAN: I know, right?

SPRAGUE: Oh, my God. Those are the things that keep you going.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Cool, any other experiences while you were in Kuwait that you'd like to share?

BAUMAN: I did get to travel twice. Once to Bahrain and once to Qatar or "Cutter," however you want to say it. So those were neat experiences. Um, I believe those were also, so Qatar was part of our leave that we were authorized we did not get to go fly home because we weren't there for a full year. But in 01:09:00the middle of our, the full six months, we did get a trip to Qatar for R&R.

SPRAGUE: And what was that like?

BAUMAN: Oh, it was like being in the same place, but with an Applebee's or Chili's. [Both laugh] You know, it was nice to not have to work 12-hour shifts for a couple of days.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: And then Bahrain was really interesting. That was an earned trip, um, for an award that I got.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that.

BAUMAN: Um, I believe that was, I can't remember if it was over Christmas or over New Year's, but it was over a holiday and it was a one- or two-day trip. Um, and I just remember it being really interesting and the environment was so different. It was such a, um, a rich environment, just the, the, the buildings and the people. It just, it was very lavish. I remember that.

SPRAGUE: Did that have anything to do with the award you received from the Army or something else later?

BAUMAN: Um, it was, I don't remember what award it was. It was not the Army Commendation Medal, it was an award for my unit.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Um, I can't remember what it was.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Were you counting the days to come back to the States or were you kind of like, yeah, I'm good. I could be here longer if I had to be?

BAUMAN: Yeah, I think it was. At that time in my life, I didn't really have anything other than wanting to finish school. I didn't really have anything I was missing, you know, I didn't have kids that were missing their mom. I really didn't have anything that I had waiting for me at home really.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. So tell me about leaving Kuwait coming back to the States.

BAUMAN: I remember that being a very interesting transition. Um, it was a 01:11:00different kind of transition than coming off of active-duty, because not only was I now coming off active-duty again, I was coming back from a different country. And, you know, thankfully I don't have any PTSD from my military service. And so I did not have that piece to have to figure out. So it was mostly just the transition of, you know, infiltrating back into civilian life again with everybody who was an American were, you know, in Kuwait I was working with people of all different from all different countries and all different cultures.

SPRAGUE: If you could just flesh out maybe a little bit more about that transition coming back to the States. You get a little more detail about what you experienced.

BAUMAN: I remember the driving having to get used to driving on American roads 01:12:00again. It was interesting. Um. You know, one of the biggest things for me, too, was now I had to pick out what I was going to wear, which I still struggle with. Having to make my own decisions. Um, you know, having to choose what time I was going to get up and what I was going to do during the day and where I was going to go. I remember that being kind of the grieving process because I functioned really, really well in that environment.

SPRAGUE: With the structure?

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. So when you came back to the States, where did you fly into?

BAUMAN: I believe we flew back into Norfolk, and we were there for a little while, so we could do all of our medical clearance and debriefing and, um, you know, making sure we didn't have any disability claims or anything like that.

SPRAGUE: Did the Navy do any detransitioning with you?

BAUMAN: Yeah, that was the whole, the whole transition process. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: In terms of I guess I should be more specific in terms of mental health today. No.

BAUMAN: Okay. And not that I remember.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Can you give us more? Like if you need to talk to a therapist, you know, here you go.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. So, uh, did you exit active duty at Norfolk then, or how did that work?

BAUMAN: Yep. And then from Norfolk, we got to, we all kind of went our separate ways.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Uh, did you leave, uh, as an individual, or did you leave as a group and moved from Kuwait?

BAUMAN: From Kuwait we left as a group, and from Norfolk as an individual.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so what was that like? I mean, these are people you've worked with for almost, well, almost a year, and now you're going their separate ways.

BAUMAN: Yeah. It's it, you know, it's, you know how you will never forget 01:14:00certain people you go to high school with. And then, you know, boot camp was a little different because we didn't have the socialization time that you do in other groups. But there's just some people that you meet that you'll never forget. And it was kind of like that. You know, you form these friendships and you train with these people and you serve with these people, and then all of a sudden they're, they're just gone. So, it was--.

SPRAGUE: Do you keep in touch with any of those people that you were in Kuwait with?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, um. My friend and I don't know if I want to share his name because I, you know, he doesn't give me, didn't give me permission to, but he was actually one of my supervisors there. And something happened back home that was about to get him in some big trouble. And he, um, made a comment about 01:15:00wanting to kill himself and I just remember he had then went and checked out a weapon from the armory, which was generally easy to do if you were going to go off base. And I intervened on that and alerted somebody who then took his weapon away. And um, he actually credits me with saving his life.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: So I keep in contact with him. I got invited to his wedding, but it wasn't, he wasn't able to make it, so. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then the person who was both of our supervisors, at that point his name was Chief Bells, but he's a Senior Chief now, and he would always say OFS. I don't know if I can curse on camera,

SPRAGUE: You can.

BAUMAN: but he would always tell me, "Out-fucking-standing, Bauman. 01:16:00Out-fucking-standing." And so when we couldn't it and I don't curse too often, but you know, when I did, you know, when we were there, we couldn't say that he would always say OFS, OFS. And so we still message of that to each other once in a while, you know, How are you doing? OFS. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: So obviously you have some thoughts and probably some experience with suicide prevention and veterans that are--

BAUMAN: It's what I do for a living now.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Oh, great. Thank you. Um, okay. We're up to about 2007 here. Why don't we take a quick break here? Sure. Okay. So we're going to set section one for the interview with Kristen Bauman.

[End of segment one] [Beginning of segment two]

SPRAGUE: This is segment two with Kristen Bauman and Luke Sprague for the I Am 01:17:00Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum. Okay, Kristen, we had stopped off at about 2007 and it just stepped into your return from Kuwait. If you could pick up the story there and tell me about that.

BAUMAN: So, while I was in Kuwait, I did actually meet the man I eventually married. And so, my return back to the States was very much revolved around starting a relationship with him and, you know, coming back home I didn't have anything to come back home to. I didn't have this full-time career. You know, I did have school. I eventually wanted to finish, but I gave up my apartment when I left. Um, I didn't have this, you know, heavily established life that I was just going to come right back home to. And so, at that time, I did make the decision to take active-duty orders back to Pensacola, Florida, to be an 01:18:00instructor, as we talked about earlier. And that was because my ex-husband, he was stationed in Pensacola.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And tell me about taking those orders and then becoming that instructor.

BAUMAN: Yeah, I was really excited about those orders just because I was familiar with the command. I was familiar with the area, and I had always, always missed active-duty. It was not something where I was excited to be off active-duty and I was going to be a civilian forever. I, I loved active duty. I loved wearing the uniform every day. But I also knew that getting that degree and finishing school at some point was my priority, so going back on full active-duty orders was not in, in my cards at the time. So these were a short set of ADSW, so Active-duty for Special Work. So it was similar to that 01:19:00Individual Augmentee that I had just gone on, except it was voluntary instead of voluntold.

SPRAGUE: And ADSW?

BAUMAN: So Active duty for Special Work. So, it was temporary active-duty orders that you volunteered for.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. And tell me about first going to I would imagine going to a C-School first to become an instructor training?

BAUMAN: Journeyman instructor training.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: And that was in, I believe it was in, somewhere in Virginia Beach area, I think Dam Neck, Virginia Beach, somewhere over there.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And then I assume you went down to Pensacola? And tell me about that. About being an instructor there.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, it was it was very, very similar to like when I was a student. It had only been six years, six and a half years later. So, there wasn't a ton of 01:20:00difference. But basically, I was in charge of a classroom, and I got to teach. I didn't, I guess here's the biggest difference is when I was there in 2001, 2000-2001, the instructor taught the whole course. So, from start to finish, so the entire six months of training was with one instructor. When I went back, there was a like a precourse to the actual course. So that the students had to go through this online portion of the training prior to being actually in the classroom instructed. So, I got to do that, that initial portion. So I was there assisting them while they were doing their online training and which was lucky for them because I was still not good at math and still not good at electronics. So, I knew just enough to get them through that that online portion.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And I would imagine from 2000 to '08, things had changed on the Internet a little bit because you went from less, being able to do online courses to probably much more so.

BAUMAN: I don't remember anything being online when I was there in 2000.

SPRAGUE: Right.

BAUMAN: And now there is, you know, online courses. And there were you know, every student had a computer in the classroom.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what were some of the highlights while you were at Pensacola during your instructors tour?

BAUMAN: Oh, that's a good question. It was a very it's a short period of time. I don't think it was more than a year. Um. I'm trying to think, you know, I have a, a situation that happened there. That's interesting. Again, when you, you bring up the gender discrimination. I don't know if this would classify, but I 01:22:00remember it being a really, it's like a crappy situation is that I went in for a regular, um, physical exam and the doctor had found a lump in one of my breasts, and I had to go back in for surgery to have it diagnosed. Um, and I remember I got written up after the surgery because I hadn't submitted the paperwork the right way or the leave paperwork or I didn't have a certain signature on the paperwork that I needed, or I didn't do something right within the chain of command to get permission and approval to have that done. And so I remember being terrified, thinking that I could have breast cancer and being written up at the same time. So that was a very, uh, you know, a negative experience, you know? And it was negative, by the way. I was kind of not having any cancer, 01:23:00which was good. So.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, so it sounds like to me like you're, you're having similar experiences where you're having a great experience with the Navy. And then this other flipside of it.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Is that a good summarization?

BAUMAN: I think so, yeah. I've seen the, the, the good and the bad and, um, the positive and the negative. Yeah, absolutely.

SPRAGUE: So you said it was a two year enlistment what made, or, or roughly?

BAUMAN: This second set of orders? Yeah. It wasn't an enlistment, so I was still a reservist.

SPRAGUE: Okay, my bad. Active duty.

BAUMAN: Yep. I had not switched from reserves to active duty. The orders were called Active Duty for Special Work. So, you were sent back on to temporary active-duty orders. But it was not two years, I believe. It was only, um, less than a year. It was not a very long set of orders.

SPRAGUE: And then what happens after that? Do you go back to reserve status?

BAUMAN: Yep.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Back to reserve status.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, what happened next? After that? We're probably in, what, 2008 roughly, or?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, the end of '07, I moved back. Um, my, we were not married at the time. We did get engaged while I was there in Pensacola. So my ex eventually got off of active-duty orders and moved back to Wisconsin with me.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: And then I was transitioned right back into the Reserves.

SPRAGUE: In which base did you drill at?

BAUMAN: At that time, it was still Great Lakes.

SPRAGUE: Great Lakes, okay. Yeah. And help me out here. How does it work? You're a Avionics Electronics Instructor. How does that work for drilling in that unit? I'm assuming it's a bunch of people with different ratings. How does that work?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So in the Navy, it's a lot different than other branches. When we 01:25:00do drill on the weekends. We, we, for the most part, unless you have certain ratings like MPs, you could always find MP work on a base or, um, you know, corpsman, medical, different medical ratings, whether you're enlisted or an officer, there's always something for them to do. But everybody else, if there's no aircraft, if there is no, you know, heavy equipment, if if I'm trying to think there's no ships, you know, in Great Lakes. So we really don't do our actual job on the weekends. So a lot of times we're doing paperwork or making sure we're medically ready. We're doing a lot of that online training, the stuff that you could probably recite in your sleep because it's the same every year. Um, and then getting creative with any additional free time after that.

SPRAGUE: Uh huh. And then is that also the sequence of, uh, a weekend a month, two weeks, to.

BAUMAN: Yeah, Yeah. So the two, my two weeks a year during the majority of my reserve time was fantastic because I got to go to some pretty cool places. And again, for many of us in the Navy, we were Individually Augmented to our two weeks, so we didn't go with a unit. We went on our own. We had to find our own two week, um, set of orders. Uh, if, if the unit that we were attached to, we were maybe, maybe let me backtrack for a little bit. So in the Navy Reserves, the unit that we drill with is not the unit that that owns our billet for deployment purposes. So the unit that we drill with does a lot of our mobilization readiness. The unit that owns our billet for deployment purposes could be anywhere else in the world, really. And so during those two weeks, our priority was to go drill with that unit that has our billet for deployment 01:27:00purposes. Sometimes that wasn't the case, sometimes they didn't have space for us. And then we were tasked with going online and finding a different spot for those two weeks.

SPRAGUE: In what typically was the unit that you went to drill with?

BAUMAN: Um, so.

SPRAGUE: Or ship.

BAUMAN: Yeah, when I saw when I drilled with a unit that would be the unit in Great Lakes or Milwaukee or Madison, the unit that I was attached to--

SPRAGUE: Attached to, sorry.

BAUMAN: So for the first eight years when I served as an Aviation Electronics Technician, um, the only unit that I actually got to go to was Rota, Spain.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. Um.

BAUMAN: And again, during my reserve time as an Aviation Electronics Technician, I never once went on a two-week set of orders and did my job.

SPRAGUE: That must have troubled you, maybe?

BAUMAN: It's frustrating for advancement purposes, because we were required to 01:28:00know all of this information that an active-duty sailor needs to know for their job. We take the same tests to a to know the same, you know, information about this job that then we would never do it. You know, we weren't trained for it on the weekends. We weren't trained for it during those two weeks. So when it came time for advancement, um, we weren't prepared.

SPRAGUE: So your, your, your drilling at Great Lakes and being attached when appropriate, if appropriate, if able to. What are you doing on the civilian side?

BAUMAN: So what year are we talking?

SPRAGUE: Probably '08, '09 ish.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So in, um, in '07, when I was at Pensacola, I re-enrolled in an online school, Troy University, and I eventually finished my degree in December of 2008.

SPRAGUE: And how did you feel about that?

BAUMAN: Oh, it was like finally, finally it was done. And it was a combination of being at UWM and a combination of getting some credits while I was on active-duty and then finishing up as a reservist.

SPRAGUE: Did you have the military pay for those credits, those college credits?

BAUMAN: The military has paid for three degrees.

SPRAGUE: Nice.

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that. I noticed a little bit later in your story you've got two master's degrees and you got them [laugh] to pay for college. Wow. Okay. Interesting. Okay. Uh, so you're, you're at Great Lakes. You finished your bachelors. What happened next?

BAUMAN: So I eventually got married in 2008. I finished my degree, and then I was at that time had done a lot of different things. I did a lot of personal training. And then I started my career in corporate wellness. So I got hired at 01:30:00Potawatomi Hotel and Casino, and I ran the corporate wellness program for almost five years.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Tell me because I don't know, because I was on active-duty and then just a civilian. What is it like to be a drilling or active reservist and have a civilian job? I, I don't have, help me out with that.

BAUMAN: Yeah. You know, on one hand, it was really neat because I got to continue to wear the uniform and I got to continue to serve. And you're, you know, I was always a sailor. You're always still part of the military, even if it is just the part time. Um, but on me, being, being in the Reserves was so different. The reservists, the Reserves have such a different environment and 01:31:00culture than active duty does.

SPRAGUE: Would you liken it, and forgive me if I'm wrong, would you liken it to having another job, maybe?

BAUMAN: Definitely. Um, and, you know, I never felt like my full-time job impeded on the Reserves. Um. But I do feel like the Reserves impeded on my full-time job. Meaning if you want to advance in the Reserves, you were required to still do as much and know as much as an active-duty sailor. And so some people who had really flexible lives were able to take those ASW orders more often, and so they were continuing to be in their job, in the culture and in the environment and would be able to advance quicker where I didn't have that luxury because I had that full time career that wasn't as flexible.

SPRAGUE: And help me out here, too. How does that work in terms of retirement points or accrued retirement points?

BAUMAN: Yeah. As a reservist, you accrue retirement points for every drill period. And so that would be a four hours, four hour drill, four hours of drill is a period. So, you could earn four on a weekend. I believe so two, each day. And then you earn points for each of those periods. You earn points for your two weeks, and then you earn points for the time that you served active duty.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So, tell me at what point you, you are drilling at Great Lakes, and then as we went through during your pre-interview, you then are start drilling or attending at Milwaukee. Yeah.

BAUMAN: So I should probably back up before then because in 2008, I also changed 01:33:00my rating.

SPRAGUE: Right. Right. My bad. So let's jump back to that. You are completely right and I'm completely wrong. Right. Exactly. Tell me about this. This is. Yeah. You, oh wait, you decide to become a Religious Program Specialist.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, I mean, I should have probably said this when you asked if there was anything else notable when I was deployed, that's where I found my faith. And so for those people who identify as Christians, that's where I was saved. I heard the gospel message preached and little chapel over in the middle of the desert. And that's where my journey of faith began. And so I wanted to serve with the Chaplain Corps because of that. And so in 2008, I put in all the paperwork and did the interviews and the requests that I needed to do to cross rate from Aviation Electronics Technician to Religious Program Specialist.

SPRAGUE: Okay, So when, when did you take the schooling to change from one 01:34:00reading to another?

BAUMAN: So I didn't have to go through the A-School. It was approved as a direct conversion. But I did, however, because our RPs, which stands for Religious Program Specialist and the majority of RPs serve with the Marine Corps. And so we were required to go through their, um, expeditionary training, which is a quote unquote combat training with the Marines. And so I did that in the summer of '07, I believe. Not, not I'm sorry '09. Not '07, '09. Yep, CREST. So, I think I went in '09 and might have been 2010.

SPRAGUE: Right. And you had written it's not a big deal. You'd written 2010 on the intake form, but it might have been '09.

BAUMAN: It's maybe it was 2010. Yeah, somewhere in there.

SPRAGUE: So tell me about because that's interesting too. The, the CREST training that you took. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And first, tell me if you can remember what CREST stands for.

BAUMAN: I think it's Chaplain and Religious Expeditionary Skills Training.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, you got it. Yeah. Tell me about that because that is intriguing.

BAUMAN: Oh, I loved it. I loved it. That, that was, like, suited for me. I was 29 years old at the time, so if I was 29, so that would, would be 2010. So that year is correct, Because I remember being the oldest in my class and thinking I was an old fart, almost turning 30 and [laugh] being, you know, well into my 40s now I have to chuckle at that. But I absolutely loved it. I mean, you PT with the Marines. We got to get dirty. We were getting muddy. Lots of weapons training. We were on the range quite a bit and lots of combat simulation. It was 01:36:00basically getting you ready to do your job if you were deployed.

SPRAGUE: And you had mentioned that there's, the Religious Specialist as a bodyguard for the chaplain.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, chaplains do not carry weapons at all. And so, we are by their side. If and I never got the privilege of being able to deploy in this role with a chaplain, but if I would have, my job in country would have been to protect them.

SPRAGUE: Wow. You had also mentioned that it gave you the right to wear the Marine uniform.

BAUMAN: You had earned it.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: Yeah. You had to pass their physical fitness test and you had to earn the right to wear that uniform.

SPRAGUE: Wow. So you must that you're on active-duty in 2010 and for that or temporary active-duty.

BAUMAN: It was, it was for active-duty orders.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: But still, as a reservist.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Tell me also what, what a Religious Specialist does other than defend the chaplain.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So if we're not, you know, in country in a combat situation, when the chaplain needs protection, our job then is to find out basically what the morale of the unit is, what the religious needs of the unit are. So what, what are the specific beliefs of the different service members and how can we help accommodate them? So do they need communion? Do they need certain sacraments? Do they need certain, you know, preferences for different, you know, foods that they might eat or not eat based on whatever religion that they are? So we, we would kind of keep a pulse on that. A lot of times. We were also like the first 01:38:00line of communication to the chaplain if someone needed to report sexual assault, if someone needed to come and talk about suicidal ideations or if someone just in need to come talk in general.

SPRAGUE: About, I think about chaplains in the Army and a battalion size element, maybe 500 people at the most, and then them having one or two chaplains' assistants. Is it similar in the Navy where you might have a chaplain who might be an officer and then enlisted personnel who are the Religious Specialist or something?

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: And one or two per ship that assist the chaplain or maybe more? I don't know.

BAUMAN: Um, you know, I'm not. You know, we didn't really talk about this too much, but you can tell in the interview, in my 22 years, I spent five days on a ship.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: So I, you know, backtracking a little that was a highlight of my time at 01:39:00Dam Neck was my five days on a ship. [Laugh] So I do not have experience, you know, what that looks like on the ship. But, you know, if we were talking about a chapel on a base and let's just say there were, you know, each chaplain probably has at least one RP, maybe, maybe more.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: I'm trying to think of unit size, when I was with [Mar Ferez??] for a while, um. There was maybe six or seven of us RPs, maybe a little bit more.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you become the religious specialist, specialist? Is that what it's? R-P. R-P.

BAUMAN: Religious program.

SPRAGUE: Religious Program Specialist. Sorry. And then we'll hop back to the Naval Reserve Support Operation Center in Milwaukee. So that would have been 01:40:00where you were working out of, as for your drill.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I eventually went from Great Lakes to Milwaukee.

SPRAGUE: Why was that? Just out of curiosity.

BAUMAN: I think because of billets, you know, I can't even remember why it was. I also think it was recommended to switch sites, drilling sites, because it was good for your evals, too. So it looks like you had, you know, a variety of places that you had served to when it comes time for promotion. And it was closer to home.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, of course. So I've got you down as in 2013 you're working on your masters, or had been?

BAUMAN: My first one, yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Tell me about that.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I'm trying to think. I started, give me just a second to remember. I have mom brain fog as well to go along with it.

SPRAGUE: That's okay. No worries.

BAUMAN: So I went to Carroll for my first masters and I graduated in 2013. So I started in 2011 and it took about two years to finish. Also in 2011, in 2012, I was married for a few years at this time and we adopted our first two sets of children, our first two children. So in 2011 I was working full time, became a mom, and then also started my master's degree shortly before the kids came to live with us.

SPRAGUE: It sounds very like a lot going on.

BAUMAN: Yeah, yeah. That's kind of the theme of my life. [Laugh]

SPRAGUE: So '13, you graduate with a master's of ed in health education.

BAUMAN: Yeah. And so if you can see the theme, too, I also went to, loved Carroll. Love. Absolutely loved Carroll. And made it a goal to go back and teach 01:42:00them back and taught there a little bit later.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So '13, '14. You're still at Potawatomi.

BAUMAN: Until for 2014, yes.

SPRAGUE: What happens next in terms of both your reserve career and your civilian career?

BAUMAN: Yeah. So during that time, right after I graduated, I applied again for a direct commissioning program. So it was still I mean, I never gave up on that dream to get commissioned. I still missed active duty. I still loved serving and being in the uniform. And so I put in a package to again become an officer. And at the time, again, my my evaluations were great. I had never failed an advancement exam. However, it was it took me 15 years to advance from E-5 to E-6. Never failed in advance of an exam. My evaluations were always 4.0 and 01:43:00above. It was just that darn test could never score high enough because I wasn't actually working in the job full time. So yeah, I did the interviews for that. I did the entire package and again was not selected. And here I was sure I, you know, had a master's degree at this time, graduated with a 4.0. I didn't see any reason why I would not get picked up. And I didn't.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Okay.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And that was in '14? '13?

BAUMAN: '13, 2012-2013 timeframe.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And the package that you were talking about was that to OCS or to another program.

BAUMAN: DCO, to direct to commissioning.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BAUMAN: So that is different than, than OCS. Well, it's a different type of program, basically. So it takes you from reserve enlisted to reserve officer and 01:44:00they send you through. You don't go through the same, I don't think you go through the same OCS program that everyone else goes through. It's a different, shorter kind of program. But then you come back to your, to being a reservist as an officer.

SPRAGUE: Wow. So you were still trying to become an officer, what, almost eight or ten years later?

BAUMAN: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Can you, any conjecture on why the Navy wouldn't go, wouldn't go for it?

BAUMAN: You know, I think my choice of degree and master's in education doesn't really translate to any of the engineering or warfare kind of jobs that are in the Navy. I did the program, the DCO program I applied for with Supply Corps because it was one of the only ones that I could figure out how to kind of gear 01:45:00my resume towards. Because a big part of that was civilian, civilian experience. And your resume is what they looked at. And so, you know, someone with a background in corporate wellness and fitness and now a master's degree in education, you know, trying to see how that translates into being a Supply Corps Officer or even any other kind of officer. I can see that being maybe a barrier. Okay.

SPRAGUE: So what happens next? 2014 and later.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So in 2014, I really enjoyed my career in corporate wellness. I really did. But my, um, I had this like ache for being back on active duty. But at the time now I was married with kids, and so I knew going back on active duty was not a good choice as a mom. Was not a good choice for my family. But I still, I missed working with people that had that same ethic and same drive and 01:46:00same purpose behind them. And so I made a really bold move that I had never considered making before. And I went into law enforcement.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay. Yeah.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about that.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I had never considered law enforcement before ever. It was actually I remember at one point in my life years prior thinking, there's no way I could ever do law enforcement. I think I would be too scared of getting, getting shot or I don't know. It just, whic-which doesn't sound, which sounds funny being in the military for so long. But it was just different, you know, a different job. And so the more and more I thought about what job, what career could I move into that would give me that same satisfaction and same work ethic and same environment as the military law enforcement made sense. And so my local police department was hiring. I never in a million years thought I would make it 01:47:00through. But, you know, I was the, I received like the top award of combat training with CREST. When I went through I was the honor graduate.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: Of CREST. And then applied for the police department position. And I think out of several hundred applicants, I was one of three that got hired. Um, and I went to the police academy in 2014. Again, I loved it. It was just, I feel like it was kind of what I was made to do was the honor graduate of the police Academy, and I served as a police officer for a very, very short time.

SPRAGUE: Any comments on that?

BAUMAN: So I realized I think working third shift, I was falling asleep through 01:48:00dinner and it was not a really good fit for a mother. I was a mother of four at the time. We had adopted two other kids. Um, so without going into too much detail, I was in a very toxic marriage with someone who was abusing substances and, um, could not hold down a job and finished schooling and kind of advanced themselves. So I was left to do a lot of it on my own. So, um, yeah, I was trying to fulfill personally what I wanted to do while being a mom and also, you know, in finances for, for the whole family. So it was just a lot at that time.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, it sounds like it.

BAUMAN: I grieved leaving that position for many years, but at the same time, it was the best decision I could have ever made. Um, but yeah, I had to do it for two years, got to wear the uniform. Um, and once we get to today and you see what I'm doing today, I kind of come back full circle.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we'll get here. So, um, so tell me about, um. Okay. 2014. Tell me about somehow winding up in the Navy Reserve Operational Support Center in Madison.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, um, you know, again, I'll, I'll just touch on this too. When you asked about balancing a civilian career with, with a reserve career, it was the hardest as a police officer, it was almost felt impossible to do because of the work hours. And so depending on the days, my shift would end. Sometimes my, my shift would start on the same day I had a drill. So I was working thirds and I had to drill on Sunday and I would get done at 1600 from drill. I was still required to report for 3rd shift on a Sunday. Um. Wow. I know. So I have, I have such a heart for those who are in law enforcement or work in an ER or any kind 01:50:00of weird, you know, 3rd shift night schedule and are continuing to do, um, reserve work. It's, it's a lot.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

BAUMAN: [Cough] So, um, Navy Operational Support Center in Milwaukee eventually shut down. So the Navy Reserves did a lot of budget cutting and they, they got rid of several reserve centers all over the country, maybe even, um, you know, I don't know much about, um, the [NOCS??] that were out of country, but I know that in country they did a lot of budget cuts

SPRAGUE: So that's how you end up in Madison.

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm. Madison was the next closest location.

SPRAGUE: So then if you were getting off late in your shift, you would have had to have driven over there to report for drill or the reverse.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Finished drilling and then reported in the third shift.

BAUMAN: However, I was still in Milwaukee when I left was enforcement, so I never had to make that drive.

SPRAGUE: Um, okay. So tell me about becoming an adjunct instructor at Waukesha.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So when I left law enforcement, you know, part of, part of that reason, too, is my ex-husband at the time did get a full time job and like, yes, he's finally working. And so I just left work full time to come home with the kids. But part of my, who I am, I can't just sit and do nothing. So I did have some part time jobs and part of that was becoming an adjunct instructor. And, um, I absolutely loved it. I taught at WCTC [Waukesha County Technical College], I taught fitness and wellness for law enforcement, which was perfect for me. And then I taught at Carroll a handful of different classes in exercise science department, nutrition, health ed and then I taught a cultural competency course 01:52:00for veterans.

SPRAGUE: So that seems like a really good fit.

BAUMAN: Perfect fit. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Wow. Tell me about the comp-- cultural competency course with veterans. I'm curious about that.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So at Carroll, all undergrad students are required to take some type of cultural competency course. And students who were veteran students were allowed to take a different course that didn't require them to travel anywhere because the assumption was that they had already traveled. And so one of their, right? So one of their papers, final papers needed to be about their travel experience, their time in a different country and the cultural implications that they, that they experience. So, yeah, it was an, it was an interesting course. Not one of my most fun courses to teach, but it was definitely interesting. The 01:53:00most interesting part is when, one of, I had one of my reservists that I drove with who was a peer as a student.

SPRAGUE: Oh, wow. Huh. Interesting. So during this whole time, you're still in the Reserves?

BAUMAN: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: So tell me, I'm assuming you're working towards retirement or you're adding on time there and thinking I'm accruing time? Is that what was your psychology there? What was it? I mean, I'm assuming that's it.

BAUMAN: Yeah, I think I was, I still had in my mind at some point I want to get commissioned and, and during this time period, I don't remember what years I sought out commissioning opportunities with the Marine Corps and with the Army and with the Air Force, um, and try to see if any of those route, routes were an option. I did have a 10% disability coming off of active duty, so the Air Force was automatically a no. I don't think the Army cared [both laugh] if you like 110%.

SPRAGUE: I'm laughing with you.

BAUMAN: [Both laugh] I know you are. And I mean, eventually, you know, it's not that I gave up on that dream, but I realized that my dream of becoming a mother was more important than the dream of becoming an officer. And here I go getting emotional again.

SPRAGUE: That's okay.

BAUMAN: And that putting that dream aside was the best thing for my kids. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So, at this point in the Reserves you're an E-6 sounds like to me.

BAUMAN: I eventually made E-6. It took 15 years, which means I took the test 30 times, almost 30 times. Maybe a little bit less.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. I have talked to other reservists and Guard members who have said that they have to basically go on active duty to compete.

BAUMAN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: With the active-duty people, because otherwise you just don't have the experience or for whatever it takes.

BAUMAN: Correct. Correct.

SPRAGUE: Huh. That's interesting. Okay. So, moving ahead, you just graduated again. Tell me about that, if you would.

BAUMAN: Yeah. I'm doing this most recent time.

SPRAGUE: Yes.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, um. Yeah, I eventually transitioned to Madison, and I'm drilling out of Madison because Milwaukee closed. Um, in, in, in, you know, I don't know how much vulnerability you want to in the civilian side here. Um.

SPRAGUE: I think what, you've been okay with talking to the public about and revealing to the degree that you want to.

BAUMAN: So in 2019, I became a single mom very unexpectedly. My, my ex-husband was arrested. Felony child abuse. And that was. Um. At that point, I kind of was 01:56:00left having to figure out how to move forward. You know, what to do next. How do I, you know, now being the only one that's going to care for these kids in my family, you know, how do I figure that out? And again, this is where my, my faith plays a huge part in even how I'm here today and have made it for three and a half years is unexplainable. Um, and so I did a lot of reflecting at that time, a lot of praying, trying to figure out what. You know. I have a master's degree, so obviously I'm employable. But how, how employable am I with a master's in education? You know, I can't get a full-time teaching job without a Ph.D. Don't want to get a Ph.D. What, what career path and what degree can I get at UWM? Because I only had my state GI Bill remaining. So I used all of my 01:57:00Montgomery GI Bill for my undergrad and my first master's. I had my state G.I. Bill left. And so what degree could I get as a single mom? That is always going to be where I'll always be employable, always be a need? You know, I can. I can get it at night or do it online and what would that be? And so I ended up going back for a second Masters in Clinical Mental Health Counseling.

SPRAGUE: And that was at UW Milwaukee?

BAUMAN: I finally graduated from UW Milwaukee after those, you remember those first two attempts?

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

BAUMAN: Right after high school and then went back again.

SPRAGUE: Oh, yeah.

BAUMAN: So I finally got my degree at UW Milwaukee. It wasn't in kinesiology, but I graduated.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about deciding to, to become a mental health counselor.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So I, I knew that a degree. And I have an entrepreneurialship like 01:58:00spirit in me too. So, this is the opposite of that cause of getting a degree with a license is opposite of that entrepreneurial spirit. But I knew also being a single mom that I had to be practical and that being a full-time entrepreneur, um, was, was very, very risky as a single mom. So I wanted to have a license, a license that I could always use, that I could always get a job with, whether it's part-time, full-time or whatever. And I do have a connective tissue disorder in my hands, that I'm still fighting to get disability for in the military, that could eventually disable me and make me unable to use my hands. Thankfully today and I'm still good, but it could progress. So um, nursing was out any, any laborious work was out with my hands, you know. And so counseling 01:59:00was the one thing that I knew. I'm good at talking. I love working with people and I could always do it whether or not I was disabled.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay. So, tell me about retiring from the Navy Reserves this last January.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So, um, I mean, can I get controversial on this, too?

SPRAGUE: Sure. You're more than welcome to just beware of slander or anything like that.

BAUMAN: Oh, yeah. Yeah, totally. I'm so, um, I started my degree in 2020 when the pandemic started, and so it went all went online. So, I got to finish in 19 months versus 4 years and it would have taken, um, in, in 2020 is when I hit my 20 years. And in 2021 is when they came out with the vaccine mandate for the 02:00:00military. Um, and it was very coming down heavy on you could lose everything if you don't get vaccinated and, and or if you don't choose to retire. And for me personally, you know, I'm not going to get very controversial here. But for me personally, I especially with my condition that I have, I wasn't a choice that I was wanting to make at that time. Um, and I had enough years. I really wanted to have the 22 years fully, and I wanted to see if I could go for a chief. But I also, as an incredibly exhausted single mom in school, getting ready to start my next career. And I retired early.

SPRAGUE: Nice.

BAUMAN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Cool. Okay. Um, and tell us now what you're doing right now for the civilian side.

BAUMAN: Yeah. So what I'm doing right now on the civilian side is not what I had 02:01:00planned on doing. So, I plan to go into private practice, um, you know, going to work with a established company, and I was going to be, um, just work part time as an outpatient therapist. And as I was finishing up, you know, during the time in school, I was doing some other very extensive trainings. Some trauma trainings, one called somatic experiencing, another one for chronic pain called pain reprocessing. And I was planning on using all of that as an outpatient therapist. And right before I was ready to sign the paperwork and get started, I saw a job pop up in my Indeed like feed. Um, and I applied. And so I am now an embedded mental health professional, on a crisis intervention team serving with the Waukesha Sheriff's Department. And I get to respond alongside law enforcement to mental health related calls.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Mm-hmm. So what do you. But how do you feel about that?

BAUMAN: It's a perfect fit.

SPRAGUE: I was going to say [laugh].

BAUMAN: Everything has come full circle. Every life experience that I've had over the past 22 years has made me able to do this job today and have empathy for people and be comfortable in very uncomfortable situations and be prepared to work with people on the brink of suicide and with very acute mental health conditions. And um. Yeah, I love it.

SPRAGUE: So tell me about it. Do you have any feelings about finally leaving the Navy?

BAUMAN: Again, it was grief, there was a lot of grief leaving. I really didn't 02:03:00get closure. I didn't have a retirement ceremony. I did have a small retirement ceremony planned at the Reserve center. However, in January of this year, my youngest brother took his life. And so suicide is very close in, in close to my family. We've been impacted. You know, that retirement ceremony was scheduled for February. And just because of the loss that my family had, I canceled it. I couldn't bring everyone together to celebrate when we were grieving something so big. And so I yeah, I didn't have a lot of closure. It, it was sad. But I also know that there is no way I could have continued with a reserve career working full time and being a single mom and have enough for everybody. So.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. I'm sorry to hear about that loss.

BAUMAN: Thank you.

SPRAGUE: How, uh. How do you handle Memorial Day?

BAUMAN: How do I handle Memorial Day? You know, I, I feel like I am blessed because I came out of my military career pretty unscathed. My PTSD came from my marriage. Um, and so, you know, Memorial Day is a day to remember and honor those who never came home, never got to retire, never got to come off active duty. Um, there is heaviness with that day, but at the same time, I did not serve in units where we lost people. So, it's not it doesn't affect me the same 02:05:00way it affects other veterans.

SPRAGUE: And how perhaps differently and how does how does Veteran's Day affect you?

BAUMAN: You know, for, for a while it was kind of like, oh, it's just Veterans Day. I just did what I did. But looking back on 22 years and sometimes Veterans Day, I'm like, but I wasn't in combat, you know, I didn't see things and I didn't experience that and do things like other people do. And so for a while it was just for those people, you know? And now I'm kind of like, no, I served. I would have done that If I would have call, was called to it. I would have taken a bullet for you, for, you know, the next veteran. For the next veteran. But it just wasn't my time, wasn't what I was called to do. And so I celebrated a little bit differently now that I'm older and wiser.

SPRAGUE: Do you continue any of those relationships with those people that you served with over the long term? I know you've mentioned a few.

BAUMAN: Yeah. The couple that I mentioned, I you know, we're Facebook friends and we do still catch up with each other. And, you know, even the people that I served with on the reserve side, you know, just went to my friend's wedding, who I served with as a reservist and some of those reservists know all of this that I'm sharing. And they knew it and they were supportive of me as I was walking through a lot of this stuff. And so those handful of reservists actually threw me a mini retirement party. And we got together as friends, had food, played some games, had some drinks, and, um, gave me a little bit of closure.

SPRAGUE: When you think about those friends who are veterans. How do you think about them in terms of your relationship with them?

BAUMAN: Yeah, there's. It's a different kind of relationship, there's because you, you can be friends with a veteran without having, you know, it's different probably for men and women, too. But I have my civilian friends and I just share everything with. Right? Um, and you feel comfortable because that's the kind of friendship you have. And then you have your veteran friends who don't know all the details. They might know some generalizations, but you know they'd take a bullet for you, and they know you'd do the same. And it's a different kind of connection. It's a different kind of, it's a relationship with a commitment that's unspoken.

SPRAGUE: Any involvement with veterans' organizations?

BAUMAN: I don't, but I would like to. What's really kind of cool in my position right now is we do come across community members that are like, I really want to speak to a veteran or I'm in crisis right now, do you have a veteran that gets 02:08:00it? And I'm like, well, I might not get it, but I'm a vet and I get I get the vet culture. And so here I am.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, how do you think if you hadn't raised your right hand and enlisted and signed the enlistment contract, how do you think your life would be different?

BAUMAN: Um, I, I think I probably would have somehow figured out how to finish school, and probably had the same career over the period of 20 years, and I don't think I would have empathy that I have today for, for so many people that are struggling with trauma in different, different capacities, whether it's trauma from PTSD, from serving, or if it's trauma from being in a traumatic relationship, or if it's trauma from losing someone or, um, you know, the 02:09:00million on the different kinds of traumas that we can experience. And I don't think I would have empathy today like I do now.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What motivated you to do this interview?

BAUMAN: I don't know. [Both laugh] You know. Again, like I said, part of me is like, I don't have a ton to share because I'm not a, I, you know, I'm not a war hero. I didn't go to war and. But at the same time, I want to break that stigma in those veterans who also served and didn't experience combat. And I'm starting to get more and more open about sharing my pieces of my story of domestic violence and suicide, surviving, you know, my surviving brother's suicide, those 02:10:00family members that survived. Um, and just all of these things that we're too afraid to talk about because they're somehow taboo. And so I think part of me wants to get used to opening up more and more so that other people know that they're not alone.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Did we miss anything that you'd like to cover?

BAUMAN: I don't think so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Well, thank you for your service. From one veteran to another, that's going to conclude the interview.

BAUMAN: Okay. Thank you.

[Interview Ends]