Oral History Interview with Alannah McReavey

[Interview Begins]

ROWELL: Today is January 13th, 2023. This is an interview with Alannah McReavey who serves in the United States Army from June 1984 to December 1991. This interview is being conducted by Kate Rowell in Thiensville, Wisconsin, for the I'm Not Invisible Project and the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So, Alannah, let's begin with where you grew up.

MCREAVEY: I was born in [XXXX XXXX XXXX] actually. And when I was ten years old, I moved to Wisconsin, and I've been here ever since.

ROWELL: And so, what was that like for you moving to Wisconsin?

MCREAVEY: It's kind of a culture shock when I first came here because we moved into not such a nice neighborhood. And it was very diverse, and I wasn't used to diversification in people. So, it was a whole culture shock.

ROWELL: Yeah. And what did your parents do at that time?

MCREAVEY: My mom was a stay-at-home mom because we had five -- she had five kids and my stepfather worked for A. O. -- I think it was A. O. Smith. A. O. Smith. 00:01:00He was actually a military veteran. I didn't know until later on in life.

ROWELL: Okay.

MCREAVEY: And so, we bought a house, it was with VA financing.

ROWELL: And did you know of any other veterans or service members in your family?

MCREAVEY: No. Not at all.

ROWELL: So, what was your experience with school like?

MCREAVEY: Like an elementary school?

ROWELL: Yeah. Or, you know, or your kind of higher ed high school experience, too. What was that like for you?

MCREAVEY: Well, when I was in elementary school, I was in a very -- in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, it was probably one of the lowest socioeconomic areas in the city. So, that was not of a positive experience. But then I went to a Lutheran school from sixth to eighth grade. Even though it wasn't a good neighborhood, it was much more positive. And then when I went to high school, I went to a high school called Milwaukee Tech, Boys' Tech. It's more like a trade 00:02:00high school, but you did have to have like, decent grades in order to get in there. So that was pretty positive in the high school. Yeah.

ROWELL: Did you say Boys' Tech?

MCREAVEY: Yeah, it was actually initially an all-boys school because it was trade for a machine shop welding. But then they changed the name to Milwaukee Tech. And so, when I went there, there's probably one woman to each -- to six guys.

ROWELL: Okay. So, what was that like for you and your experience?

MCREAVEY: I think the guys -- it was not really a problem, but we had exploratory shops that we had to do, like welding and try to put an inch of that together. And I really wasn't that good about -- good at it. Um, but other than that, I had some really good friends. It was a good experience. Mm-hm.

ROWELL: Uh, what kind of vocational traits were you pursuing or maybe interested in at that time?

MCREAVEY: I think it was architecture actually. Mm-hm.

ROWELL: Uh, and so when did enlistment arise as an option for you?

MCREAVEY: Well, I ended up becoming a teenage mom so that kind of changed my plan in life. And then I worked. I graduated from high school with three years of school because I had enough credits. And then I worked as a secretary. And then I didn't go to college, and I didn't join the Army until I was twenty-two. And it was for my best friend at the time, who now is a judge in Milwaukee. She talked to an Army recruiter and they're like, "Oh, well," you know, "you're going to get money for school, you're going to get the weekends off, you can get reserve money." And so, at that point, I was looking for opportunities or money to get through college.

ROWELL: And was that friend Diane Shelton or someone else?

MCREAVEY: Danielle Shelton.

ROWELL: Oh, Danielle.

MCREAVEY: It's Danielle, but she goes by Dani-Elle. It's spelt like the Danielle Shelton.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, and what was your impression of the military at that time, 00:04:00would you say?

MCREAVEY: Well, my friend told me because she always had these grand ideas for us to get money for school and one before was kind of a funny thing. It was actually Jell-O wrestling. We drove over. We were going to make some money. And of course, we didn't do it. We turned right back around. [Laughs] So, and she told me, she's like, "Oh my gosh, we're going to join the Army." I told her I didn't even know if the Army would want me. I just thought I couldn't do one push up. I weighed 115 pounds at the time, and it was kind of a joke. And so, I did meet the Army recruiter and he was quite charismatic. And, um, I just signed the dotted line. He told me I had the weekends off, which of course was not true, but I did sign up.

ROWELL: Okay. Uh, and--

MCREAVEY: Naively.

ROWELL: Oh, gotcha. Um, and then, uh, so you were a college student when you joined?

MCREAVEY: Yeah, I went to a couple of year trade school for a while, like some, 00:05:00um, couple classes, and I think I was at University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. They had a special program at that time for nontraditional students, is what I was. And so that's how I kind of started out.

ROWELL: Okay. What were you studying at that time?

MCREAVEY: I ended up with a major in economics. Um, I think I initially was going to go into social work, but I was a single mom and I looked at how much they made when I got out of school without a master's degree, and it was pretty much the same as I was making in the secretarial field. So, I decided to go into business like everyone else.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, so how did your family and your friends react when you told them that you were going to be enlisting?

MCREAVEY: Uh, I honestly cannot remember how my mom responded, but I know my friends thought there's, like, no way you're going to make it to the military. 00:06:00They just-- you're not going to do it. I was, um. I could run. I just wasn't very muscular. I didn't do any push-ups or how the stereotype if you look at a television movie, there's no way that I looked military. And at that point I didn't know that it was mental strength that gets you through it and grit. It has nothing to do with how you looked and how feminine you were. It took me a while to figure that out.

ROWELL: And so, you mentioned that you were a single mom at this point. Um, so at that time, what was your kind of plan for your home life as you were enlisting and as you were going to go to boot camp and that kind of thing?

MCREAVEY: Well, my daughter's father, who was my high school sweetheart, uh, went to Marquette University here in Milwaukee, and he was able to watch my daughter for the ten weeks, um, he was a couple of years older than me, while I went to basic training. And I was waved the AIT [Advanced Individual Training] because I had secretarial background. So, I can-- somehow, I didn't ask for it, 00:07:00but they waved it. So, I was gone the ten weeks. My daughter was very young, and it was very challenging to be away from her that long. Um, but I managed to get through it.

ROWELL: And what was your full name when you enlisted?

MCREAVEY: Including middle?

ROWELL: Uh, yeah.

MCREAVEY: Okay. So, it was Lana Dawn Anetra Genest.

ROWELL: Uh, and so what do you remember about the day of your induction in 1984?

MCREAVEY: Before I went to basic training or after when I graduated?

ROWELL: Uh, before you went.

MCREAVEY: Well, I've never been on a plane before, and so I was really nervous. I actually ended up with like a urine infection or something, or bladder infection. I don't remember why or what. I was really quite nervous to even be on a plane. And I just didn't know what to expect. And I was dragging that little green duffel bag with all the stuff in it and, uh, dragging it, not picking it up. Like, eventually I was. So, I was pretty scared.

ROWELL: And did, uh, Danielle actually come with you to basic? Did you go together?

MCREAVEY: Danielle came a couple of weeks later. Yeah. And we, uh, we were both at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, but she was on a different unit, and we were actually able to meet each other at Spanish mass. She spoke Spanish, I didn't, but I was able to meet her there a couple of times.

ROWELL: Um, and so how did you feel when you were, you know, taking that plane and taking that bus, uh, over to Fort Jackson? Do you recall?

MCREAVEY: So, I'm in Fort Jackson at this point.

ROWELL: Yeah. So, when you're arriving. You're nervous? Anything else that comes to mind?

MCREAVEY: Oh, the nervous went to like, excelling nervous. You know, the screaming drill sergeants, the heat, I went in the middle of the summer. I was just really wondering, you know, what had gotten myself out of-- because, of course, they start right away when you get there, screaming at you. And so, I was really wondering, am I going to get through this? [Laughs]

ROWELL: And so, how was it for you transitioning into that military life in boot camp?

MCREAVEY: I met a couple of girls who were kind of friends a little bit, and so that kind of comforted me a little. And I knew that I wasn't going to be there forever. But it was a big transition. It was-- quite honestly was like a little bit of feeling if you had imagined being in prison and a little bit of how, it was the combination for basic training.

ROWELL: So, for you, what was the most kind of trying or challenging part of that specifically?

MCREAVEY: The whole team thing. They teach you the team thing. So, someone on your platoon is late, someone in your platoon is not doing something right. We had African American drill sergeants and there was a scenario where I don't-- they made it up or someone in the team said something racial or [inaudible]. You 00:10:00know, just some comment and then we were all in the hallway and they did the whole garbage can banging noise and was screaming at us. And it kind of almost makes you feel like you're going to lose your mind because it's so-- they're screaming at you so long and you don't feel like you don't even know why you're being yelled at. So, you feel like you're almost going to snap. But they're testing your mental strength, obviously. Of course, at that time I didn't have a clue that this is what was going on.

ROWELL: Can you say a little more about the trash can banging?

MCREAVEY: [Laughs] I'm not sure why they do that. They do that with-- when they wake up in the morning or if they have some major thing that went wrong, they had a bang. I don't know if it's a trash can or a can or something. They're banging it. The noise-- and then the drill sergeant was speaking very, very loudly to the point where you think they're on drugs. And when-- if you're not 00:11:00out, um, in formation when they tell you to, they tell you they're going to throw you out the window. So, you start to kind of start believing, you know, I don't know. Honestly, I thought that just one of the drill sergeants was like, on cocaine or something. I was just like, he's out there.

ROWELL: Another level.

MCREAVEY: Another level. Mm-hm.

ROWELL: Um, and so did you train with an all-female group?

MCREAVEY: All women for enlisted, yeah, for basic training.

ROWELL: And so, what was your impression of, uh, of the drill sergeants as a whole? So, there was one very intense. Uh, what about the others?

MCREAVEY: We had some very short, intense women. Drill sergeants were equally nasty. Um, couple of the officers weren't very nice either. Um, there was a reserve drill sergeant and gosh, I can't remember. It's so-- [inaudible] time, 00:12:00but there's-- I think it was Sergeant Carter in this Gomer Pyle black and white movie. He looked exactly like this Sergeant Carter, which humorous. And he-- and this guy, he was from the Reserves, he was a drill sergeant. And we had a situation and anyway, he came to me and he's like, "Are you okay?" You know, because I was crying about something. And so, he's pretty empathetic. But [laughs] it's just kind of interesting that here I thought, I don't think I'm going to make it, and this guy's giving me a little empathy for the moment. But it was funny. The humor was great, is what I'm saying. The humor for this guy. And I just, you know, it was even before my time, was a black and white kind of movie that is Gomer Pyle. But he was in the military. I don't remember the complete story, but this Sergeant Carter was kind of a jerk, but a nice guy. So. [Laughs]

ROWELL: So, you mentioned that you were sometimes a little bit picked on or targeted because of your appearance, because of your femininity perhaps. Can you 00:13:00talk a bit about that?

MCREAVEY: Well, ironically, I had a girlfriend in college at the time who was going to beauty school, and she wanted me to be her hair model. So, I literally went into basic training in the military with blonde hair. I mean, really blonde hair, but I didn't have a lot of money and really care. And so I was known all the way from the-- my women platoon all the way up is Private Benjamin or Private B. Yeah, they didn't even call me Genest. Yeah, it was hilarious. Even in my basic training book, Private B. Private Benjamin. So I had this demeanor of they would call me Mrs. Cosmopolitan. Yeah. So, it was-- it was interesting because I had told my girlfriend when I left, I'm going to keep a low profile. I'm just going to get the heck out of here. And everybody knew who I was because that lovely blonde hair and it was hot. So, I'm super tan and super blonde and 00:14:00yeah, I stood out.

ROWELL: Can you say a little more about the Benjamin piece? What was that about?

MCREAVEY: Well, depending on I think it was in the eighties, the movie came out. There was a movie called Private Benjamin, and it was this woman from the suburbs who just couldn't get our her together. I think her husband, or she had a boyfriend left her and she decided that she would join the Army and she had blonde hair. And it was Goldie Hawn actually. Yes, Goldie Hawn. And so, they had this movie and they kind of made more fun of it, that her weekend, she tried to get some time off and had like a bubble bath. And, you know, she just didn't take the military seriously until the end of the movie. So, somehow, I have this-- this lovely name, and I wasn't even offended by it, quite honestly. I mean, I didn't want to be known as the hardcore military woman. I wanted to be 00:15:00somewhat feminine. So.

ROWELL: And you also mentioned being injured at some point during basic. Would you like to discuss that?

MCREAVEY: Sure. You know, other than the normal thing, you're-- depending on when you get up and you sometimes can't use the bathroom before you work out. But the-- they had red ants apparently and when I was laying down, a lot of us got bites all over us. So, that was just the normal, the chafing, the heat, you know, the normal beat-up thing. I think my feet were okay most of the time. A lot of the girls had serious problems with it. But we did this, I guess, called a confidence course, which had multiple ones of it. And this particular one, we had to go up-- I think it's about forty feet up in the air. There's these little blocks and there this rope and you have to go across the water. So, you go up and you're supposed to grab onto this rope, look up and ask permission to drop into the water. But I have kind of smaller hands and the rope was meant for men 00:16:00because there were several of us that injured ourselves. So, instead of me asking permission to drop, I went up to the rope and I kind of fell. Well, I did fall. I fell the wrong way and hit my head on the water. So, I remember saying involuntary words and a stretcher came out. And honestly, I don't remember if they brought me to the doctor. I don't remember anything. I just-- once I hit the water, I just remember because I was kind of out of it that someone was, you know, getting me out of the water or whatever. So, I think I had a headache for a couple of days, but then I was fine. That I thought it was fine.

ROWELL: Was there anything else that you encountered in basic where you felt like the-- either the training equipment or the environs or anything like that wasn't made for females to train with?

MCREAVEY: I can't think of anything off the top of my head. You know, of course, 00:17:00other than the military issue underwear for men, women was not exactly, you know, it was very grandmother-ish. So, I don't know if that was really meant for us. I'm not sure. Yeah, I think the boots, and everything were fine. And the uniforms when I was wearing the [BUs??] was okay. It wasn't anything of-- I couldn't think of anything off my-- I'm sure there was a lot of the, um -- Yeah, I just can't think of anything else of the top of my head.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. Um, and then so what do you actually-- what do you remember about your graduation?

MCREAVEY: Well, actually, no one from my family came, but I didn't think it was a big deal. But it was a big deal. You felt super, super confident that if you could go through that, you could do anything. That's kind of how I felt. So, I felt pretty good about myself as confident. I felt like I was a different person. And it was-- it was a really cool experience because I've been through 00:18:00tough times in my life, but I never did something consistently tough for that long period of time where you have to really utilize your mental strength to get through. Um, because there was many times I thought my legs would drop over or you just couldn't do it. But I just thought, well, if my legs drop and I fall down, they'll have to pick me up. And guess what? I never fell, no one picked me up. So, the mental strength was the key. The key to the success. So, it was very cool.

ROWELL: Yeah. Are there any other memories you'd like to share about basic before we move on?

MCREAVEY: No. I had one situation. I don't know how far I was in basic training, and I was doing KP duty. It was really hot, and I don't know if it's peeling potatoes or whatever, and actually some of the other girls kind of dropped off. They couldn't handle it. And I don't even know why I could handle it; I keep doing it for I don't know how long. It was crazy. I thought it was twelve hours, 00:19:00but maybe it was less. So, I was going back to the barracks, and I was just thinking it might have been early in basic training because I was just thinking, you know, I'm too tired. There was an officer, the one that I referred to earlier, who I decided that I was too tired to salute. So, he's like, "Well, you get in the dirt where you belong." And he was making me do pushups and all this stuff. And then I went back to the barracks and that was-- I'm not a crier necessarily. So, then I think I cried from then. But you know, you're tired, you're exhausted, you don't want to be there. So, I think I cried all night. [Laughs] So I went to formation the next morning and that drill sergeant who looked like Sergeant Carter, he was the ones like, "Are you going to be okay?" And then I remember someone from my platoon, you know, "What's wrong with you?" And I was actually pretty aggressive with her about it. I was like, you know, why do you need to know? I remember being mean to this woman probably was like, "Are you okay?" Because I have big puffy eyes. So that was the one time that I 00:20:00cried pretty much all night. [Laughs] So but I look back. But again, I didn't know that this is military. They're training me to be more, I mean, I got to get this mental strength and as I went on into basic training, then I realized that I do need to salute these people in every situation. So.

ROWELL: All right. And so, you mentioned you skipped AIT because you already had qualifications as a secretary. So, what was the MOS that you were assigned at that time?

MCREAVEY: It was 71 Lima, which is basically administration secretary. And so, when I went back to the reserve unit the very first time, I was actually the colonel's secretary. So, the upper echelon or higher-ranking individuals. I was their secretary.

ROWELL: Okay. Do you remember what colonel that was?

MCREAVEY: I do not.

ROWELL: Okay. But so that was your first duty station, then?

MCREAVEY: My first duty in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, at the 84th, um, Division Training Command.

ROWELL: Hm. All right. Um, and so what were your kind of day-to-day responsibilities like there?

MCREAVEY: Well, I just was reservist at that point, Um, if I remember. It's just that all their meetings, I was taking notes, so keep in mind, this is years ago, so '84. So, yeah, it's still in the eighties, and they don't have cell phones or anything like that. So, I would just take notes and I just do everything else everyone else does. The M-16 training, the medical training, you know, with the platoon. But I was-- my job was to take notes and that was it. But I didn't do it the whole time. It was just part of the time.

ROWELL: Yeah. And so, you were part time at this moment as a reservist. Yep. And so, what were you doing otherwise in your-- in your civilian time?

MCREAVEY: I was going to school.

ROWELL: Okay. At UW-Milwaukee? All right. Um, and so when did you start taking classes again at UW?

MCREAVEY: You know, it's kind of hard to remember. I think I was taking a little bit, like, nine credits because I was in a special program because I only had three years of high school. So, I think I started off at nine credits, which is below the full time because I had to work part time and I had a daughter. Um, so that's what-- I was always working and going to school part time and then the reserves. That's what I was doing at that-- at that time.

ROWELL: And can you talk about joining the ROTC program at UW-Milwaukee?

MCREAVEY: I can't remember the time period. It might have been like only a year after I'd been in the enlisted. And my friend Danielle, again, the positive person she is, she found out, well, if we join Reserve Officer Training Corps at the university, we can get the GI Bill money, ROTC money, and reserve money. And 00:23:00quite honestly, looking back at that, it wasn't a lot of money, but it was enough with that and working part time that I could go through school. So, we joined ROTC together.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, so what was it like juggling, you know, your reserve duties, your coursework, your home life, and also the demands of being an ROTC cadet? All of that together.

MCREAVEY: Quite honestly, I look at it now, I don't know-- I mean, I rarely-- I didn't get much sleep. I think I went to bed like at 12:00. And then I get up for the training early in the morning. I was pretty young at that point. I was pretty-- I was in really good shape. Um, it was very challenging, and I don't even know. I mean, I did have like, on Sunday nights sometimes I get really depressed [laughs] because in my life I just felt it was just very overwhelming. Um, but overall, I think I was too busy to realize that I was doing way too much, and I had to keep at least twelve credits to go to ROTC. So, I don't think 00:24:00my grades, um, I should have been higher grades, but I was doing too much, But I was doing well enough to get through college. I was doing well enough to get through ROTC. Um, so I don't even know. My daughter was going to school. And she also was at the day care center at the university. They used to have a daycare center there. And during that particular time, I think I only had to pay a dollar an hour or something. It was very reasonable. So, it kind of worked out, luckily.

ROWELL: And so, you were one of only three women in the ROTC program, is that correct? Could you talk a bit about that?

MCREAVEY: Um, so Danielle was one of them. I was the second one, and there was, um, another young lady. I don't know if she made it through. And there might been one more and I don't know if the other woman actually graduated, but she was there for a little bit. So, when I say three, I think Danielle and I might have been the only ones that graduated. I don't know if those other ladies did 00:25:00or not. Yeah, it was okay. It was a younger college area, so the guys are pretty nice. Uh, they seemed a little immature, but I was a little bit older than them, and my life was different. Uh, we watched the Vietnam movies, and, you know, they thought that was, you know, fun, joke, but it wasn't. But they were young, and they hadn't experienced war. So, but overall, the training was pretty good. We did the training in the gym with the, um, they put all your gear on you and backpacks and throw you in the water. They had to come get me and I had mascara on [laughs]. So, my-- they had a command sergeant major who was just the sweetest guy on the planet. And so, he made it much more enjoyable. We still have military balls, so there was some good things there. Um, but there was a Major Love who was our commander who was not that nice to me necessarily. Um, 00:26:00and matter of fact, he mentioned my daughter, which was sensitive to me at that time, and he kept saying, "Well, don't you think you should be home with her?" And he had this little thing. So, he had ways of making me cry on a regular basis. And again, I'm not a super drop of a dime kind of a cry person, but he would know the buttons to push on me. But, you know, I come to training and, uh, you know, I had my make up on, I was always kind of a cheery, happy person. And I don't think he liked that too much. And my friend Danielle, he liked a lot. She wasn't as feminine per se as me and, um, for whatever reason. But it was interesting because we had our training in the university gym and we had to run around, run around, and I would finish and coach Danielle through, even though I looked less-- if you had to look at a military woman, than, um, her, but everybody just assumed she was better because she was a little taller, a little 00:27:00broader than me. So that was some kind of the situation. And we'd been training in the fall, Kettle Moraine Park in the tents and the cold, and that was not pleasant. So anyway, Major Love was on my case. He had a lot of humor. And so, when I came back, yeah, I think my hair was still kind of going the blond, green, brown thing. And, you know, he made jokes about I look like I belong on a Christmas tree. And I mean, he had some funny things. But long story short, I told him, I don't remember if it was the F-word or whatever, I said, "Screw you, I'm done. I can't handle this." This was after three years of enduring him. And so I was at home and I'm like, I think it was like two weeks later, I'm like, oh my gosh, I just spent all this time. And so, I called him up and literally begged him back. And he made me go through another half semester. And then I 00:28:00graduated. Commissioned as a second lieutenant. [Laughs]

ROWELL: So, do you-- why-- do you have a sense for why else you think he maybe targeted you? Did it have anything to do with this, your status as a parent, do you think? Or was it just he had this idea about more feminine presenting women?

MCREAVEY: I'm not quite sure if he had an issue with women in general, or maybe, I don't know his background, maybe he served in a certain point, and I was not taking the military seriously enough. So, yeah. I don't know. If I look back, I think he thought I was not serious enough and my demeanor was just not military, in his point of view. So, it could have been, and the fact that I had a child, he probably thought, hey, she should be home taking care of this kid, not running around the university. But I lived ten blocks from the university. It kind of worked out. But, um, so I don't know. I think there's just something 00:29:00about me. I don't think he necessarily disliked me a lot, but he just didn't think that I was in the right place. But the fact that he let me back told me that-- that he thought-- he believed in me in some way, that I would be able to get through it.

ROWELL: And then, so when did you earn your commission? Do you remember kind of the date or the year? Maybe '86? Does that sound right?

MCREAVEY: '86, '87. Could have been it.

ROWELL: Okay. '86, '87.

MCREAVEY: Let's see. I was married in '88 and I was already done. It could have been '86, '87. Yes.

ROWELL: So, you did get married around this time?

MCREAVEY: 1988.

ROWELL: Okay. And was your husband a civilian or was he also in the armed forces?

MCREAVEY: Civilian. His family came from military, but he was a civilian.

ROWELL: Okay. Could you state your married name for me at that time, if that's okay?

MCREAVEY: It was Lana Dawn Anetra Roelse.

ROWELL: Right. Thank you. And so, after receiving your commission, did you remain with the 84th, uh, Division Training Command? [McReavey nods] Okay. Um, and at this point, did you transition into full time or remain part time?

MCREAVEY: I was a reservist, but I-- when I was in ROTC, I was a cadet, So I was still a training officer and a commander because they're training you. And then when I got commissioned from ROTC, then I was a training officer at the 84th Division. But it was S-1, which is administration.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. Um, and then can you talk about taking on that role of the training officer?

MCREAVEY: Well, I was really fortunate I was on a team of other sergeants who were very supportive of me, actually, and some had served active duty. They kind of took me under their wing and there was a full-time sergeant who handled the administration for our S-1 unit. And he was also very instrumental in helping 00:31:00me. I was working hard, but they were very supportive, and we did a great job and then we ended up getting a, um, this Kevin, I can't think of his last name. He was the administrator that I'm referring to, and he did all the paperwork. And then our unit, I think I got an Army achievement medal for our unit readiness because of our NBC [nuclear, biological, chemical] training or medical or M-16 in our unit. So, that was kind of a big deal. So, I actually had a pretty positive experience, although they say officers worked once a month, it's not true. You're always working. And then there was one captain and maybe one or two guys, uh, they were a little hard on me, but it was mostly make sure your hair is in your hat. Again, take this seriously kind of thing. Um, you know, now that I look back, I can see why they expected that of me. I mean, I was an 00:32:00officer, a very attractive young female officer. So, they're just saying, "Hey," you know, "You're in the military, you need to be serious about this." So. But overall, everyone was very kind, and I learned a lot, so.

ROWELL: Were there other female officers in that unit?

MCREAVEY: Not that I remember.

ROWELL: Okay. All right. Um, and, um, can you talk a bit about some of your responsibilities, including, uh, annual training?

MCREAVEY: Well, my training is to make sure as an officer and to make sure that everybody knew how to take their M-16 apart and put it back together in two minutes, and they have to know how to shoot it. We'd run around sometimes eight hours with their nuclear biological suits on all day and try to work. Um, of course, the simple physical fitness things, you had to be able to run two miles and pushups and all that stuff. The annual trainings were extremely challenging 00:33:00for me. Not necessarily bad, but I was, you know, very young. And uh, one time I had to organize a picnic. It doesn't sound like a lot, but it was a whole battalion or something crazy, and it was very challenging for me. And then I also ran-- this was in Fort Sill, Oklahoma. All the trainings were large for all the battalions, like, all there. Set it up so they had to test and all that kind of stuff. And so the ones that I had, and I had these big offices and the Kevin guy I had talked about, he would be there. He was helpful. And then I became friends with this police officer on the scene and he kind of talk like Kermit the Frog. So, Kermit the Frog, myself and Kevin were kind of like, together a lot. And, uh, it was really fun. So, I didn't have any situations with any sexual harassment or anything like that. I think I had a-- a commander or 00:34:00whoever was kind of my boss, and he was just a real cool guy. And I remember someone saying to him when I wasn't commission yet, like, where's your cadet? [Inaudible] you know, so it seemed like they were keeping an eye on me and make sure I was okay, and so that's pretty good.

ROWELL: Yeah. Can you talk a bit about, um, the logistics that went into that kind of massive amount of planning that you were doing and what it was like to move into a position with more-- more authority, more responsibility?

MCREAVEY: Well, it was really scary because literally there was no training. It's like, here, you're an officer, you're going to do this major, big project. And I was quite nervous. But for some reason I was managed-- I managed to push through it and just even though I didn't know something, I just pushed through it or tried to find someone that could help me. And luckily in the military it's all about teams. So, you know, I'd have people help me and sometimes I just make 00:35:00mistakes and it just was the way it is. I never remember being reprimanded by making mistakes because, um, yeah. For some reason, I just don't remember it. Yeah, it's a little crazy because everything is big. Everything's big. There's thousands of people and Fort Sill is a training-- basic training location. So, when we're there, we go into the mess hall and as an officer, everyone stands up. I mean, it's just overwhelming when you're a really young officer. But I'm really grateful for all it because I think it's benefited me my whole entire life.

ROWELL: How did you cope with that sense of overwhelm at the time? Do you remember?

MCREAVEY: I don't know if I coped with it. I was just nervous.

ROWELL: Just went through it?

MCREAVEY: I went through it. I don't even know how I did it. I never-- somehow, I never broke down and said I couldn't do it. I just remained nervous and pushed through it.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, and can you talk about, um, transitioning into the role of company commander? Uh, what that was like for you?

MCREAVEY: So, it was mostly the training officer, and I don't remember. I think the company commander was maybe the last year I was in the service. Yeah, we did a lot of, you know, I have to go in front of everybody and do-- Gosh, I can't even think what it is. You know, the etiquette when you're standing up and directing people. Again, I felt like I was quite nervous, like thinking, oh, my gosh, you got some high ranking, you know, [inaudible] people, officers in particular don't have a lot of respect for their NCOs and their sergeants. And so, it was really interesting to get in front of them and kind of lead them, even though they were outranking in experience and everything. But overall, I think everyone knew, hey, she's young and she's trying and we're going to help her. So, I think overall, it went pretty good. The Kevin was on there the whole 00:37:00time through the reserves, so he worked full time and I worked part time. So, it was actually a lot of work outside of the-- the reserve unit. You know, I put training things together and we had to make sure that everybody followed the SOP [standard operating procedure] and it was-- the unit I was in was mostly training. So, me being the training officer, going to company commander actually was a good transition because I was familiar with it. Um, so I think yeah, the company commander, it really wasn't too much different except for, you know, you feel a little scared because you're leading people with more experience than you.

ROWELL: But you seem to have felt pretty supported during that time?

MCREAVEY: I think overall I must have. Yeah.

ROWELL: And uh, how was it-- how is it continuing to kind of balance having your family and having that work life and uh, how was that for you?

MCREAVEY: It was a, you know, a lot because sometimes I didn't have a car and then I had to find a babysitter and go to the drill unit. So, it was quite challenging. But I, at that time, I needed it for money to survive. So, I was getting a little bit of reserve and, um, and then I was working part time, so I kind of needed it and I just managed to get through it. I think, you know, being a single mom so young, it certainly-- I felt a little guilty having to leave her with people at times. So, I think that was the most heartbreaking for me.

ROWELL: Yeah, thank you for sharing that. Um, so how long did you serve at that duty station in Milwaukee?

MCREAVEY: The whole time. So, I went from the colonel's secretary, ROTC, training officer and then company commander at the same unit.

ROWELL: So, about seven years, is that?

MCREAVEY: Um. It's closer to eight, but I think I got-- because I was 00:39:00transitioning out. So yeah, it's between seven and eight.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. And, uh, are there any other memories from that period of time that you want to talk about before we kind of move to the next thing?

MCREAVEY: No, we used to-- we were the S-1 unit and then sometimes we had a, you know, like these pig roasts or picnics or parties with the whole battalion. And I always thought that was really great because there was camaraderie, and everybody got together. And, um, I just really-- I really like that part. I don't know why it kind of stuck out, but I really liked it. And I like how people, you know, show their respect after I was working hard. So, it was really-- I'm not sure how they acknowledged it, maybe just no one was really that critical. There was a few guys, but-- that made comments to the upper officers, but overall, everybody was pretty supportive.

ROWELL: Um, what kind of comments would they make?

MCREAVEY: Some of the-- the two officers, um, one of them-- I think he was just a little stern and they would, uh, make sure my hair wasn't longer than my hat or my uniform wasn't-- you know, nothing-- nothing too degrading or sexual or anything. It was mostly like, listen, I know you're this young girl, but you better step it up. You're an officer and you should do that. Or maybe they thought I should work harder or do something else. They might make a comment. I think they were pretty neutral overall. No emotion to it. It was like, you should do this. So, overall, it wasn't too bad.

ROWELL: Did you feel that they-- you-- that you received more scrutiny or more kind of close monitoring because you were a female and you were young and, you know, they-- do you feel they were looking at you more often than they were your-- your peers or was it-- did you feel it's purely professional concern?

MCREAVEY: I'm sure because I was a female, there were some there. And I get it, 00:41:00a little bit more on the attractive side, thinner. So, I kind of stuck out a little bit now that I look back. Of course, if I was talking to when I was twenty, I probably wouldn't say that. But now that I'm sixty-one next week and I look back, I'm like, yeah, I was a very attractive, very thin woman. I am surprised I didn't run into too many issues, but again, I think they sometimes just thought I didn't take it seriously enough because I tend to smile when I get nervous. And so, if they made me nervous, I would smile and they're just thinking, well, yeah, you're not listening to me, lady. So.

ROWELL: But you did feel that you got-- that you received recognition for the work you did ultimately in some way.

MCREAVEY: Mm-hm.

ROWELL: Okay, so it was kind of a balance of both elements of treatment.

MCREAVEY: Yeah, I think I was just very fortunate to have Kevin, this 00:42:00administrator who was supportive of me and worked as a team. And then I had some other sergeants who had been active duty and went to reserve and they were supportive. But we had meetings that I was supposed to be leading and sometime they're testosterone and talking over each other, it was really hard to manage and I'm not quite sure I even managed it right. I was just like, okay, you guys got to stop talking and screaming and-- but I managed to get through it.

ROWELL: Yeah, you did mention I think in our pre-interview, right, that they were-- in the 84th sometimes they were a little argumentative or aggressive with each other, but not as much with you? Is that-- does that track with--

MCREAVEY: I don't know if it was the egos or the male testosterone or what it was, but we would be in some meetings and they would talk over each other and "no, this is right, this is right." And then here I'm the one that's supposed to be leading it, the only woman. So, it was quite challenging, but it was 00:43:00interesting that I had these experiences so young that it really benefited me later on.

ROWELL: All right. So, I think let's take a pause for time, just quickly. All right. So, this ends segment one of the interview with Alannah McReavey on January 13th, 2023.

[End of segment one] [Beginning of segment two]

ROWELL: This begins segment two of the interview with Alannah McReavey on January 13th, 2023. So, we left off discussing your last duty station, kind of the-- and the more final kind of period of your service. Is there anything else you want to talk about before we move into talking about your departure?

MCREAVEY: [Pause] No, I think I'm good.

ROWELL: All right. And so, what year did you leave the Army Reserve?

MCREAVEY: I received my honorable discharge December 1991.

ROWELL: Okay. And so, what prompted that decision for you?

MCREAVEY: Well, I really wanted to stay longer, but at the time, I was married and lived in Sheboygan, and my unit was in Milwaukee, so my ex-husband wasn't very supportive of me being in the military. Maybe because I was married, I had a two-year-old, it really was a lot, but it was just one weekend. But again, as an officer, it's when you go, you're still preparing and doing things behind the scenes. So, I ended up getting out.

ROWELL: Okay.

MCREAVEY: And it was right-- not too far before-- I don't remember when Desert Storm started, but it wasn't-- I was getting out a little bit before then.

ROWELL: And was that lack of support kind of there for a lot of the time you were in, or did that change in any way? That you were receiving in your personal life?

MCREAVEY: Um--

ROWELL: Do you actually want to pause really quick, so let's do that. We'll come right back.

[End of segment two] [Beginning of segment three]

ROWELL: This begins segment three of the interview with Alannah McReavey on 00:45:00January 13th, 2023. So, we were discussing your transition out of the Army Reserve, which happened in '91. So, uh, we were talking about your transition into civilian life. Would you like to say more about that?

MCREAVEY: Yeah, it wasn't that big of a challenge because I was in the reserves and I had a two-year-old keeping me busy, and I had a full time job. And so, at that point, I just stopped talking to all my military friends and everything. It just-- just stopped, quite honestly. And I just got busy. My son was struggling with a lot of different challenges. So, I was just, you know, involved in taking care of him and working and being married. And I just wasn't very active in the military after that, actually.

ROWELL: So, what were you doing for full time work at that point?

MCREAVEY: I was an insurance underwriter, actually.

ROWELL: And you had mentioned that your-- your former spouse had not been very supportive of your-- of your military career. Is that correct?

MCREAVEY: Yeah. He run-- he ran his own trucking company, then he worked for UPS for a while. And we lived in Sheboygan, Wisconsin, which was a little far for me to travel back and forth. And I don't know if-- what-- for what reasons he didn't want me in the reserves. Maybe because, you know, I was a mom, and I was married to him, and he didn't think it was a good mix. So, yeah, he wasn't very supportive of me going to the reserves and wanted me out and I ended up getting out. I think if I didn't have the two-year-old, which it's really challenging, a lot of issues, that I probably would have-- probably just stayed in the reserves. But because of my son, I just stopped.

ROWELL: Yeah. And then did you seek out any veteran benefits or care after leaving the Army?

MCREAVEY: No.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, did you ever look into home loans or anything like that?

MCREAVEY: I did look for-- into VA loans until, like two years ago when I bought this house that I'm in. But because of COVID, everything was kind of shut down. And somehow, they didn't have all my records, and it just didn't work out. But no, I've never utilized the veteran benefits.

ROWELL: And then how are you received by civilians as a female veteran? Do people in your life know that you were a veteran?

MCREAVEY: Probably not. Yeah, I just didn't talk about it much. And when I got my job, it's Acuity Insurance now. It was Heritage back then. They actually-- I was in the reserves when I got the job, and they were really not too happy about it. They didn't want me to take off time for reserves and they kind of downplayed it. I just remember that. But yeah, I never talked to anybody about it afterwards.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. And so, the Gulf War began right after you left. Do you want to 00:48:00talk about how you felt about that at that time?

MCREAVEY: Well, it was really a little close to me getting out. And I had, you know, you have that guilt where you should have been doing it. But then I was grateful because I had a child who really needed me. And then, of course, I, you know, felt for everybody else that was deployed. I didn't really-- I don't think I focused on it too long, unfortunately.

ROWELL: Yeah. And so, what did you do next in your civilian career?

MCREAVEY: Let's see. I went from an insurance underwriter for I think four or five years, and I was an insurance agent actually for a long time because I was working with insurance agents when I was an underwriter, I thought they were having a great time and life was easy, but it really wasn't that easy.

ROWELL: And so, what was kind of the trajectory of your professional life from 00:49:00then to kind of the present?

MCREAVEY: So, I was an insurance underwriter, insurance agent, and then I was a mortgage broker for five years because at that time, the interest rates were low. Everybody was refinancing. It was a good time for me to get involved and it was very flexible schedule with my son and my family. So, that kind of worked out. And then after that I went into business banking and wealth management, where I am now today in commercial banking. So, finance. And I did major in economics, so it kind of made sense. But almost all of the positions were in a sales role.

ROWELL: And when did you graduate with that degree from UW? Or was it from UW?

MCREAVEY: UW-Milwaukee. Yeah. I think it was-- I should know that, shouldn't I? '88, '86-- maybe '86? Yeah, it was very close to the time I was commissioned as 00:50:00an officer.

ROWELL: And then so right now, you're involved with the Veterans Development Program at Bank of America. Is that correct? Can you tell me something about that?

MCREAVEY: Well, I took there-- it was a seven-month veterans development program, and I saw veterans, West Pointers. I was the team lead on. It was kind of funny because I think-- how many people were in my group? We had to do a big project on the technology of Bank of America. I can't remember if my team was like six or eight, so I said I'll be the team lead. But we had a West Point graduate on there and I don't think he was such a fan of me taking that role. But he had great ideas, but he just didn't have great follow through. So, that was pretty interesting to me because West Point is, you know, a big deal. And if you're a reserve officer training corps, it is nothing compared to what they do. I mean, obviously. So, but that was fun. Now I'm in the veteran community of Bank of America, so that is wonderful. And then they have a military support 00:51:00group, too. It's for employees. So, I'm in that organization too. Not as active as I am with the veteran chamber.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. Yeah, absolutely. And then on that note, can you tell me about your involvement with various veterans' organizations that you've worked with?

MCREAVEY: So, as I was mentioning, I wasn't very--

ROWELL: It's okay.

MCREAVEY: I wasn't very active in the veteran community mostly because I was a mom. I did have, you know, I had an older daughter and my son and just-- it just took all my time, and my son was special needs. So, I took all my time that-- when I got done with that. Now I've been with the Wisconsin Veterans Chamber of Commerce for about six years, and I started as their events committee chair and then a board member, and now I'm the president of the board for the last two years, which is awesome. And I meet so many different people and I've done so many things and I can't tell you how much of a blessing it's been for me. Then 00:52:00I'm also the chair-- or co-chair and will be the main chair for Operation Grateful Giving, and that-- we start in August, and we get gifts and things for a 360 Christmas bags that go to the VA hospital on Christmas Eve and the domiciliary and rehabs for veterans. So, it's a big deal. And I love-- absolutely love doing it, but I just do whatever I can do. I did something for the Milwaukee Homeless Veterans Initiative. I got my coworkers and some other locations, and we got a bunch of Christmas gifts for the homeless. [Dog barking] You want me to stop?

ROWELL: Um, sure. We'll pause for a moment.

[End of segment three] [Beginning of segment four]

ROWELL: This begins segment four of the interview with Alannah McReavey on January 13th, 2023. So, we were discussing your work with your outreach-- your 00:53:00outreach with homeless vets at this moment in time. Do you want to continue on that thread?

MCREAVEY: Mm-hm. So, the Operation Grateful Giving, that's for the Christmas for the vets in the hospital, in the rehab. And then this past Christmas, I did something with the Milwaukee Homeless Veterans Initiative for at work. And we had so much stuff. I filled my trunk and my car up and we-- apparently the Milwaukee Homeless Veteran initiative, if there's a veteran, they have family, they can go and buy Christmas gifts and then wrap them there for the gifts. And then we also did all the, you know, the towels, irons, all that other stuff, too. So that was pretty gratifying. And then the other thing, I think it was about four years now, we put in a women veteran program. So, it's at the Milwaukee Women's' Club, which is the oldest women's club in the US. And it's kind of cool because it's all women. Pictures, it's like a country club. It's 00:54:00all women. And the bathroom is like, elaborate, and the men's bathroom is on the lower level. They have to go downstairs to, you know, not so nice place. So, we have really good women leaders that speak there. And Debbie, who is director of the Milwaukee Homeless Veterans Initiative, she-- she was one of the speakers. So, I'm really proud of the women's event. We put together with a raffle and then we do a fundraiser, and I think the last time went to the Milwaukee Homeless Veterans Initiative, too. So, I like to do more things with women veterans because I think they just don't acknowledge themselves. And so, it's just a good area for me to work on.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. And did you also work with Boudicca House at one point?

MCREAVEY: Not really other than with the Operation Grateful Giving. We drop off gifts for them and I've invited them to the women's veteran events we've had. 00:55:00I've not had any of them attend, unfortunately, so I'm not quite sure why that is. I think they're generally it's only like eight or ten people and women in the Boudicca House. Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. And then healing-- Healing Warrior Hearts. Can you discuss any experiences you may have had with that?

MCREAVEY: Well, Patricia Clason, who was the founder of Healing Warrior Hearts in West Dallas, is actually a Toastmaster group, which is public speaking. There's a lot of veterans that are involved in that. She's the one who started Operation Grateful Giving. So, I basically just help her with that for the last few years. I don't do much on the Healing Warrior Hearts, which is for retreats for sexual trauma or anything else that you need to get over for military people. Because I've not attended. I have friends who have but I haven't.

ROWELL: And in our discussions, you mentioned that you have had the impression 00:56:00that National Guard or Reserve veterans occasionally are perceived differently or perhaps are treated differently in terms of benefits in some way. Can you tell me a little bit more about that, if you feel comfortable?

MCREAVEY: Yeah. Usually, the reservists and the National Guard, you know, we don't-- we're not able to get the plates on our cars from the state of Wisconsin. I don't know how the other states are, which, you know, you have to have been in active duty or usually if someone has a Purple Heart or something, you were injured or disabled, then you're kind of acknowledged. But the reservists and the National Guard who support everything and are always there and ready to go, I don't feel like they have many benefits. I really think that's a missing link. Maybe it doesn't have to be the same, but it should be something. We really pretty much don't get anything.

ROWELL: And on that vein, you mentioned that you had some personal difficulty qualifying for benefits at the VA? Uh, what was that about?

MCREAVEY: That was the VA for the mortgage I applied for. Somehow because I was 00:57:00enlisted and then I was an officer, they didn't group the points together and it was during COVID. So, I think I was just short. You have to have a certain amount of points in order to qualify. And you can be in the Army Reserve or National Guard, but you still have to have enough points how they assign it, retirement points. And I think it was short like two points, because somehow, they didn't get the records correct. But I just didn't-- different type of loan.

ROWELL: Yeah. And in terms of that differential treatment, are there any-- any examples that you've experienced personally that you feel it's that, you know, differential treatment for reserve?

MCREAVEY: Not too much. It's just if you weren't active duty, it seems like, you know, we went to the same training, we do the same things. We just weren't activated. There seems like some people just don't respect them as much as like a regular active-duty people. Or servicemen and women.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing that. Um, so, um, talking about the Womens Veterans Celebration Group as part of the chamber, can you tell me a bit about that?

MCREAVEY: Yeah. There was an event that we-- was kind of referencing earlier, we just do it annually. We wanted to do more. We did a lot more, but when COVID hit, we couldn't do in-person. So, this is the women's-- we just celebrate women veterans. And usually, it's only about sixty people. We know there's a big, broader group. Before COVID, we did a huge event, and I think there might have been 150 women veterans, but we did like nails and vision boards, financial planning, lunch, and that was what we really would like to do again. But right now, in the past, after post-COVID, we're just doing the annual event for women. We just want to celebrate it. And last time we had a lot of like, I was mentioning Debbie, the [inaudible] from the Milwaukee Homeless Veteran Initiative. There's a lot of women veterans serving in this community that are 00:59:00kind of unsung heroes that nobody even knows about. And quite honestly, they don't want everybody to know. They don't want to be front and center. But there's a lot of-- and as you know, women have been there right from the beginning, from nursing and [inaudible].

ROWELL: Yeah. So, why do you personally feel it can be important to connect with other veterans in the community? And what-- when did you start-- that start to change for you?

MCREAVEY: Probably about six years ago, actually. Yeah. I'm just at a point in my life, my kids are grown, so I have more time. I have more time to give. And now that I'm involved in it so much, it's so rewarding. I just can't stop. I just can't stop. I just-- yeah, they're just a very-- the community, I think the military community, they don't really want handouts or anything like that. And I think some people think that they do, but they really don't. They just want to help other veterans. They continue their service. I meet so many veterans that 01:00:00want to get back because they know how it feels when-- especially combat vets.

ROWELL: Yeah. And can you tell me what prompted that change for you personally about six years ago or so?

MCREAVEY: Yeah. I met Saul Newton, who is founder of the Wisconsin Veteran Chamber of Commerce. I went to a networking event, and I thought, oh, this is so cool. I want to get more involved. And then the more I got involved, I got to meet everybody and realized that, you know, combat vets and active-duty people when they come back and transition to civilian life, it's the toughest time for them. So, be able to support them and then help them. The Chambers promotes veterans to start new businesses, and actually, the veteran community is more prone to start a business than civilian. And I never knew that. So, and it's just all the different connections that I met. And now I just-- my social life, my volunteer life as all veteran.

ROWELL: Have you reconnected at all with people that you did serve with since 01:01:00that time?

MCREAVEY: I tried to a few times. I met a couple of people on LinkedIn, but they didn't really-- we kind of talked, but nothing really came out of it.

ROWELL: Um, and it's kind of a big question, but personally, in what areas do you feel that veterans right now are well cared for? And what are some other areas that you feel veterans maybe could use more support or are still underserved, just from your experience?

MCREAVEY: Yeah, I think Wisconsin, I think, is one of the top states that has benefits for veterans. We still have a homeless veteran issue. They also still don't have dental care. There's all these myths and it's still very difficult to navigate from military to civilian employment. That's a big hit. They have organizations that help, but we find that it's just so overwhelming and bureaucracy that it's really difficult. And so now I know there's a couple organizations personally that are helping with dental care and some other needs. 01:02:00And then the Wisconsin Veterans Chamber of Commerce has got funding from Wisconsin business development. So, we've hired someone, and we're actually going to have a job board and working with ETS, so that's veterans exiting the military and can come on the job board and look for these positions. And this is for just Wisconsin, though. But we never really wanted to do that. But we were forced to it. And I think that's going to really be helpful. But most veterans are underemployed, not unemployed, actually, because we did a lot of research on that. And so, people come back, and they don't understand their military experience, how it equates to civilian. So, I think that's kind of a miss thing. But at the veteran's chamber, we're also educating employers for employee resource groups so veterans have community there, and then other veterans would go there and then they feel safer and more comfortable.

ROWELL: All right, thank you for sharing that. And just for the record, you had a name change in about 2017, is that correct?

MCREAVEY: Can't remember the exact date. Might have been about that. Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. And could you just state what-- what it was and now what it-- what it is, you know. You are welcome to explain if you want to, but you don't have to.

MCREAVEY: Yeah. When I originally started the military, wasn't married. And then when I got married, my last name was Roelse. Lana D.-- you know, Dawn Anetra Roelse. I never use my middle initials. So, I reunited with my biological dad, I didn't grow with my real parents, and so when I did that, I looked at all my Irish heritage and I wanted to have his last name. So, when I was doing that, I thought, oh, okay, well now I need this cool Irish first name. So, I changed my name from what it was to Alannah McReavey. So, that's why it's what it is right now.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing. And reflecting on your service with the Army, 01:04:00what does that mean to you in the present as you are now?

MCREAVEY: It's interesting because when you're-- you're training and you get to that mental thought, it just never goes away. It's always with you. Always. And interesting enough, being a reservist, and then I talk to people who've been in combat or active duty, I still have this commonality and somehow, we just connect. And I don't know why. And it's really-- it's really interesting and never goes away. But I'm sure that experience I had has benefited me, you know, in my career or whatever I started off, you know, kind of maybe not the greatest self-esteem and background when I was younger. And then I joined the Army for school, for money-- money for school, and didn't know that it was going to teach me leadership and I could find that, man, I had this major strength in me that I didn't even know was there. So, it's just something you don't forget.

ROWELL: And do you have anything that you might say to young women who might consider joining the military today?

MCREAVEY: Well, nowadays-- well, right now, you know, they have bonuses, and they pay you for your college and everything like that. I think-- just know that when you join the military, it's always going to be in you no matter what. It's just going to be there. And sometimes people go in for their training and you're young and educational benefits or whatever, but you can also go to war. So, remember that. That's not exactly a picnic. But I think it's great opportunities for women. If they want to do it, they should do whatever they want to do.

ROWELL: All right. And is there anything we didn't cover today that you'd like to discuss and that can include anecdotes from your service, anything. Maybe the 01:06:00martial arts story that we talked about just briefly earlier?

MCREAVEY: Oh, yeah. [Laughs] Yeah. I keep forgetting because it's a [inaudible], but when I was in the reserve officer training course, as mentioned, there was just Major Love, which wasn't about love too much. And I was in the university gym, and I was taking judo and he walked by and kind of like the cat, he was just kind of like, oh my God, is that Alannah? [Laughs] So anyway, he met with me, and he said, "Yeah, I want you to teach the boys how to do that defense stuff." So, we had some classes and I taught it with one of my assistants or instructors and that was pretty-- pretty cool. Pretty cool. Was very great experience being in ROTC, even if some of it wasn't pleasant with Major Love. It was- it was great. Lot of experiences.

ROWELL: Yeah. And is there anything else you would like to discuss before we finish up for today?

MCREAVEY: No. I just wish people would be more appreciative of veterans.

ROWELL: Mm-hm. What ways would you like to see that appreciation expressed?

MCREAVEY: A little bit more than sending an email saying it's Veterans Day or Memorial Day. Come up here and volunteer more and interact and let the veterans know that you care for them. And that will make you feel great, and it makes them feel better that they sacrifice themselves and their family so that all of us can be safe and, you know, live in a great country like we do.

ROWELL: Okay. Thank you so much for your time today, Alannah. This concludes the interview with Alannah McReavey on January 13th, 2023.

MCREAVEY: Thank you.