Oral History Interview with Autumn Carroll

[Interview Begins]

ROWELL: Today is February 21st, 2023. This is an interview with Autumn Carol, who served in the United States Army from 2015 to 2018. This interview is being 00:01:00conducted by Kate Rowell in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, for the I Am Not Visible Project and the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. So, Autumn, let's begin with where you grew up.

CARROLL: Okay. [Laughs] Do you want me to say?

ROWELL: Absolutely.

CARROLL: Okey dokey. I grew up in Katy, Texas. I was born in Houston-ish. Katy, it's a suburb of Houston, Texas. So, yeah.

ROWELL: And did you grow up with siblings?

CARROLL: Yeah, I had one little brother who was actually in the army now, so.

ROWELL: Do you want to share his name?

CARROLL: Brady. Brady Sutton is his name.

ROWELL: And what did your folks do?

CARROLL: My dad left when I was three years old. He is in the Army, too. So he came back when I was 18. And now we have a good relationship. My family, my grandpa and grandma basically kind of like raised me because my mom was really young and they owned a family business in Houston, Texas, a painting company. And my mom is the manager for the office and my grandpa is the owner.

ROWELL: And were there any other veterans in your family that you know of?

CARROLL: No. I mean, other than I was the first one to join besides my dad. But I guess, like knowing him when he was in the military, like when I was younger. No, I didn't know, so.

ROWELL: Can you tell me a bit about your education?

CARROLL: Yeah. Early education?

ROWELL: Sure. Yeah.

CARROLL: I went, I mean, I guess I graduated high school, went to several different schools because my mom moved around a decent amount, bouncing between Katy and Houston. So I graduated from Seven Lakes High School in 2015, joined the Army straight after, went to, I don't know, middle schools there, massive there in Texas. We graduated with like 1100 people. So, it's a big school. [Laughs]

ROWELL: Absolutely. And can you tell me a bit about how military service arose 00:02:00as an option for you when you were in high school?

CARROLL: Oh, I guess I my mom didn't want to pay for my S.A.T.s, so I didn't take my S.A.T. and the only college I got into was Blinn at College Station because I didn't have any S.A.T. scores. So that the only place I applied to and that was my plan was to do that. But then I think I saw in the cafeteria at school the Marine pull up bar, and I thought, I'm gonna join the Air Force. And then the Air Force station was closed. So I was like, I'm gonna to join the Army, so. [Laughs]

ROWELL: And how did your family react to your decision to enlist?

CARROLL: They were really proud. They're very proud. Maybe a little like nervous, but very proud. And then when my dad caught wind of it, he was like, Holy crap, Like, you're joining in. And then that's when he kind of came back into my life.

ROWELL: And how did you navigate that with him as you were getting ready to enter?

CARROLL: It was weird because he wanted to show me everything and he's super, 00:03:00what we call it in the military, high speed [laughs] he is right now. He's just about to graduate master ser-- Sergeant Major Academy in Fort Bliss, Texas. And I guess when he thought that I was going to join and he wanted to show me everything, so he flew me to where he was at Fort Bragg. And I got to see the base and do P.T. in the morning. And then I decided to ultimately join after that.

ROWELL: Okay. So you had the opportunity to get a taste of basic before you went?

CARROLL: Yeah, kind of, except more hardcore, because my dad is way more hardcore. [Laughs]

ROWELL: Ok. All right. And were you looking for any particular MOS [Military Occupational Specialties] when you enlisted?

CARROLL: Yes. 68 Whiskey. That is what I wanted.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: And that's what I got.

ROWELL: All right.

CARROLL: I mean, that's exactly what I wanted to do. I always wanted to be in the medical field when I was younger. Gray's Anatomy sparked the surgeon dream of me. And it's funny because I'm no longer in that field and I'm not planning on staying in that field. So, yeah, I wanted to be. I wanted to be a medic.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. And was that something promised to you by your your recruiter?

CARROLL: It was more promise to me and my dad. And my dad was like, "I'll make it happen". And he's like, you just need to score above a certain amount on the ASVAB. And so, I did, and all of the like options were open for me, I guess. So, I got to choose like whatever I wanted.

ROWELL: Must be a good feeling.

CARROLL: It was. [Laughs] Especially since I had never taken the S.A.T. It was kind of like my first standardized test. I was like, I did great. [Laughs]

ROWELL: And then. So, what do you remember about the day of your induction?

CARROLL: Oh. I remember wearing these jeans that I hated and this shirt that didn't fit me right. But I do remember being super nervous and having to do all the duck walks and maps and whatnot and being super nervous about not doing the movements right, because they have you like, stand at attention and then do all that stuff. But I guess just feeling nervous that I was actually doing it, so.

ROWELL: Was your were your family members there?

CARROLL: Um, I think my mom was there and I can't remember if my little brother was there or not.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: But I think my mom was there. And my mom's ex-boyfriend, Angelo, who was in the Navy. Oh, so that I guess I did know another veteran.

ROWELL: Mm hmm.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, and how did you feel when you went to travel to your-- to basic. How were you? What was your mood?

CARROLL: Poof, my phone died. I was freaking out. And I remember I went to Fort Sill, Oklahoma, so we flew into Oklahoma City, and there was this, like, nice area, I guess, that we got to kind of hang out. And I met some of the people that I'd be doing basic training with in there and talking with them and feeling a little okay. And on the bus ride to like Fort Sill was just like, Oh God, this is happening. This is happening. So it was definitely nerve racking sometimes feeling like I didn't make the right decision just because I was so nervous 00:06:00about it. So yeah. [Laughs]

ROWELL: Do you think talking about it with your dad was very intense beforehand made you more or less nervous?

CARROLL: More. Definitely more. Cause he was very like I was not very physically active. I was much smaller back then, but like, I could not run for crap was a horrible runner. And everyone's like, "you're so tall, you should be able to run". And I'm like, No, I can't. I couldn't do a single push up going into basic training. So, like, I was this tiny little blond girl, and you'll hear that story when I got to basic training.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CARROLL: And I don't know, I just didn't feel physically prepared or emotionally, really, because I had no idea, like, exactly what I was getting into. My dad was a drill sergeant as well, so like, he kind of like, explained things. But I think when you are so nervous, you just kind of brain dump things. So, I was like, Yeah, yeah, I got this. And then getting there, it was like the minutes the drill sergeants got on the bus to like, get us off. I was like, crying already, So I'm a crier. [Laughs]

ROWELL: So was that a-- was that a theme for you in the early days of basic then?

CARROL: Crying?

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Oh, yeah. I cried a lot. I contemplated quitting. I wrote to my family like, what the hell did I just do? [Laughs] And I was just in processing. That wasn't even actually like, basic training, basic training. Those were just like the first few days that the drill sergeants are a little nicer. I cried a lot. A lot. [Laughs]

ROWELL: So what were some of the inciting kind of, I guess, experiences that made you feel like you might want to quit this whole thing?

CARROLL: I guess just getting yelled at. I just like, you know, I got yelled at as a kid, but it's different when it's someone else and they're like yelling like profanities at you, like in your face. It was really funny story that everyone always remembers from basic training, but like it was after in processing, when our drill sergeants finally brought us to where we would be 00:08:00doing like our basic and I'm sure you heard the term shark attack. So they were doing the shark attack, but they ganged up on me. Every single one of the drill sergeants ganged up on me screaming in my face because I was bawling and couldn't do a push up. And my nickname from then on was Princess, because that's what they called me Princess. And they just screamed at me. [Laughs]

ROWELL: It was a lot to get through.

CARROLL: Everyone remembers that. Everyone in basic training remembers that I was like the main person [laughs] for the shark attack.

ROWELL: Wow. Oh, yeah. Really picked on you.

CARROLL: Very, very much.

ROWELL: Wow. And so what do you remember about that in processing at first when you arrived?

CARROLL: I guess just it was a lot of sitting around and waiting is what they told you that you have to be prepared for is just moving from one place, getting in process, sitting in another place, waiting to get in process, getting in process, and then is doing it over and over and just being like super tired. No 00:09:00idea why. Because I was sleeping great. Basic training with the best sleep I've ever forgotten in my life. I just by being nervous about the next step, even though it wasn't that scary at that time, I didn't realize how scary it could be. [Laughs]

ROWELL: You want to tell me more about that?

CARROLL: Yeah. I mean, I guess I was definitely ganged up on by drill sergeants. Not in, like, a bad way. I think it shaped me to be a little more confident in myself because I think they could tell I wasn't confident. So, like, you know, it pushed me to be better in that sense, I guess.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. How did that transition come about for you? It stopped being overwhelming and started being something of a motivator.

CARROLL: Um, maybe after the first, like, two weeks, when I was noticing that I could start doing push ups, I was running better. You sort of kind of get this motivation after you make it fast, that first hump. And, you know, you start 00:10:00meeting like, the best friends you ever met in your entire life. Like, we're still just as close with them. I met my husband there as well. So, like, I don't know, just being surrounded by people that you love and know that care about you and just knowing that you can always lean on anyone around you is a big motivator because I don't really have that a lot growing up. So it was-- it was a great environment that definitely motivated me to be just a better person overall.

ROWELL: Do you want to tell me a bit about some of those people that you bonded with?

CARROLL: Um, yeah, we have this. Like, I wasn't really close with them in basic, but my husband, I wasn't very close with at all. He was very quiet [laughs] and very no one knew existed. It was really funny because we would do like mail calls at the end of the night and the drill sergeants would be like, "Carroll, Carroll, we have a Carroll". And he's like, "We're here drill sergeant" [laughs]. So he was just he was very quiet, but we had a couple other friends, 00:11:00my friends named [Chaboya??] and Chadwick. Campbell was a bridesmaid and they were all like in my area, I guess, like we had bunk beds like this. And they were all like, right here. And we would just shoot the shit all night. And I don't know, I told them things I don't think I'd ever told anyone before. Just because you're in that environment, you know you can trust them so well. And on top of the fact that you do shower naked every day. [Laughs]

Is definitely an added factor of trust. But it's definitely the best friendships I've ever made. And then the guys there were great. I mean, no one was ever like bad, I guess, if that makes sense. And you always hear those kind of horror stories about like guys in the military. And I did have that experience when I was deployed, but not in basic training at all. So.

ROWELL: Are there other pieces of that transition into military life that stick out to you when you think back on it?

CARROLL: Oh. That's a hard question.

ROWELL: We can come back to it or move on to that.

CARROLL: I don't think so. I think it was just all. It feels like a different lifetime at this point in my life. It feels like I was a completely different person. I mean, I was literally a child leaving home far away from home, doing something that I've never done before. I'm definitely not comfortable with anything physical. I wrestled in high school with like, that was difficult. So it was, just, eye opening to see what life was like without parents. But like, in such a crazy way [laughs]. So that's, I guess, really what stuck out to me.

ROWELL: Yeah. And can you state for me what your full name was when you enlisted at all?

CARROLL: Autumn Chandler Brady.

ROWELL: Okay. Thank You. And so you did meet your husband at Basic. Did you get to know each other at all in that period of time or it was later?

CARROLL: Yeah. We did. I remember we actually sat next to each other, not next 00:13:00to each other, but like on the bus from Oklahoma City Airport to Fort Sill. He was behind me and we had, like, a big conversation. We didn't realize that each other were talking to each other until like years after we were like, You were on the bus behind me. But then after that, we did a lot of our combat events together. So, like, we would do like our combatives, like our hand on training, and then we'd come out for lunch and you have to sit, like back to back with someone to, like, eat your MREs, to use them as kind of like a, I guess, foot or foot, but like as, like a rest or whatever. But he was usually the person I sat back-to-back with. And it were this one time specifically that I was making my Emery coffee and I was shaking off the bag and it exploded all over me and him. So, he [laughs] called me coffee for a while, and we tried to make it a point to sit next to each other on like busses going there and talked about my family and 00:14:00like cars and stuff. And my grandpa collects cars, and he was very interested in that. So, we were kind of close. And then towards the end of basic training, he thought I had a boyfriend and so he asked me to set a up of my friends and I was like my heart. [Both laughs] Then she ghosted him. And so I got. I got it. [Both laugh]. All because he thought I had a boyfriend.

ROWELL: Wow.

CARROLL: And I. I did and didn't. At the same time, I broke up with him over. This is actually kind of sad. I probably shouldn't s--. [inaudible]. Whatever. I broke up with my boyfriend over a letter and my boyfriend did not get the letter and showed up to basic training graduation. And I was like, Oh my God. So it was awkward because. You know, I'm like. No, no, I don't have a boyfriend. I broke up with him [laughs]. So, yeah.

ROWELL: So. So you came with your family?

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: Oh.

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: What a ride back in the car.

CARROLL: We went straight to AIT, so. Oh, well, for him, my family. [Laughs] Yeah. I think they drove separate with him and my other friends, so I'm not sure. I can't remember [laughs].

ROWELL: That's okay. But. So. So you bonded for sure?

CARROLL: Definitely. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And was that one of your closest friendships that you made while you're in basic to?

CARROLL: In basic? My husband?

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CARROLLL: No, I would say because we talked but weren't, like, super friendly. We just because we didn't live together at the time. Because, like, we were in separate barracks. A lot of like the friendships with the other females and, you know, having Campbell was one of my best friends then. I mean, we did everything together. Literally everything. We would poop and hold hands like it was. [Both laugh]. Like we did everything together. So, she was like my best friend there.

ROWELL: Yeah. And how was it for you? Were you familiar with weapons at all when you were growing up? How was that acclimating for you?

CARROLL: No, I had never shot a gun in my life until my dad brought me out to 00:16:00North Carolina before I joined the military. And he showed me how to shoot. We weren't shooting, but that was like the first time he showed me how to take apart a nine millimeter. But I'd never done anything with like an Air 15 or M4. So I was very unfamiliar with that, and it took a while to definitely get used to. I chip my tooth actually trying to get a firing pin out of the bolt. So I'm like, or it was a fire retaining pin, but like, you have to like, push it a little bit and it couldn't come out. I don't have fingernails. So I was like, I'm just going to bite it and then I bit it and shit my tooth.

ROWELL: Did you have then tell your, your drill sergeant?

CARROLL: No, I didn't tell him anything.

ROWELL: Ok. [Both laugh]. I didn't say anything.

CARROLL: No. If you see this [both laugh]. I chip my tooth in the fire retaining pin. [Laughs]

ROWELL: Never do that again.

CARROLL: Yeah. No, I did not.

ROWELL: And are there any other memories from Basic before we move on that you'd like to share?

CARROLL: Mm. Oh, I forgot about Bradland. Bradland was the person who was right 00:17:00next to me because we. Oh, you know what? I wanna show this. So at the beginning of basic training, they don't remember your names. They just give you jerseys that have numbers on them. So I was two-four my friend was two-five and Brad one was two-three. So, like, we were always lined up together because you two line up by like names like this are the first two weeks that, you know, these are who were next to you, and they still never learn two-five name. So to this day, we still call him two-five. Like to this day in my phone, he's two-five. We went to his wedding last year two- five's wedding. Like it's just we still just call him two-five.

ROWELL: And it seemed like there was maybe something else too that you were thinking.

CARROLL: Yeah. I can't remember. Oh, Bradly, Bradly. Brad and I were very close, and we were like, next to each other for that. And then at AIT [Advance Individual Training] we room together for the full 16 weeks. So like, we were 00:18:00inseparable for, you know, the whole time we're there. And it's sad that because we don't talk, but like when we do end up talking, it's like no time has ever passed, but we end up like I still we still have this friend group that we still connect with. It's more Ian's who he made friends with, but we all got really close in AIT. And our friends Ariano, Clever and two-five. So we all go to each other's weddings. You know, Ariano is getting married later this year, so we're going to Mexico. But like two five just got married back in June of last year and we all had not seen each other or been together in five years and it was like no time it ever passed. It was the greatest time I've ever had was spending time with them again every time Ian and I are like, we missed these people [laughs]. So.

ROWELL: So was in your husband at AIT with you?

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: Oh. Okay. So.

CARROLL: We weren't married then.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: We, do you want me to talk about that?

ROWELL: Oh, yeah. Well, we can talk about AIT. We can talk about that. Whichever you want to do first.

CARROLL: We'll go to AIT and then, I'll, I'll mention how you and I got together.

ROWELL: Okay. So where did you end up for AIT?

CARROLL: Um, Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas.

ROWELL: Okay. And do you want to talk a bit about your combat medic training? What that consisted of?

CARROLL: Yeah. The first eight weeks is EMT [Emergency Medical Treatment] training. So it's a lot of classroom work and EMT training. I don't know how long it takes on the civilian side, but it's definitely not two months. So we were just constantly in class for like I want to say 8 a.m. to like 4 p.m., and we're just a lot of cramming and learning about it. We didn't do anything like hands on really, other than like CPR at the time. So, until we passed our and our EMT and became certified EMT, and our one friend, Ariano, he was an EMT before being in the military, so he got cycled to another company. So we lost 00:20:00like that friend. It's funny cause we're still just as close with him, but like all of us stayed behind.

And for the first eight weeks, you have to learn how to be an empty and then pass an hour EMT along with your PT test to be able to get like phase five, I think, which means you can go off post and, you know, do stuff off post whenever you have time. And then the next eight weeks is like the actual combat medic training. And that's a lot of hands on, like, you know, learning how to do chest seals and NPAs and, and NCDs, surgical crics. So we tested it, and did I already say IVs?

ROWELL: Uh, nope.

CARROLL: Learning how to do IVs. And you have like this one group. My husband was actually that group with me. So, like we were together at this point, I'll tell you how we got together. But like him, I practice everything on each other. I just everything. So, we're like, he's my partner. Like, this is who we're choosing. So that's like the actual, like combat training portion of it and 00:21:00learning how to do that, like under distress, I guess, and knowing like when the scene is safe and when you can actually go out there and intervene because a lot of people think like, oh, someone's shot, go out there immediately. But like, you can't go out there immediately. You have to wait, you know, and make sure that like the scene is safe before you actually go and intervene, I guess medically.

ROWELL: So you use some terminology at the beginning. There a lot of acronyms. Would you mind going through what some of those are?

CARROLL: Yeah, we did Chest seals, which basically is if someone has a through and through chest wound, you can get a ten or [inaudible] I don't know how to explain it even through the her chest wound you put like a seal on it and it kind of help prevent like a tension pneumothorax which is getting air in the chest cavity and then NCDs is non. What does is stand for? It's a treatment for tension pneumothorax. But basically, you stick a needle between a couple of the 00:22:00ribs, and you go all the way down to release some of the air that's in the.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: Um, Needle Chest Decompression. Needle Chest Decompression and then surgical cric. This for people who have like airways that aren't patent. So, the airways unable to breathe or like you can't get through to the airway and an NPA, a Nasal Pharyngeal Airway doesn't work. So basically, that's just like a long tube that goes like through your nose and like kind of connects if you have like a facial trauma. But usually that never works. So you just go to a surgical cric and that's like cutting in right here and then sticking the tube to get right into the trachea.

ROWELL: Mm hmm.

CARROLL: And what else would I say? IVs, intravenous, we hard to do injections. Did I get all of them?

ROWELL: What kind of injections would you potentially do in a combat circumstance?

CARROLL: In a combat circumstance? Fentanyl, like pain medication. Most of it 00:23:00was for like, sick call reasons. So like sick call. Or if you were like an aid station medic when you had to get like anthrax vaccines for people who are deploying, which is or what I did. But mostly the injections were for like medical side of it, not like combat side of it.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. Okay. You said sick call. What's that?

CARROLL: Sick call is where say, if like you're sick one day and you can't just call out, you have to go to sick call and get evaluated by a medic. And then they, like, give you interventions and then they can give you like quarters, which is like, say they have the flu or something. You say like, okay, quarters don't come into work for three days and you have to write it on a piece of paper so they can give it to their leadership and or if they have like injuries, we take a look at them and deem if they need like an additional intervention or like there you can prescribe things like ibuprofen, Tylenol, you can wrap it, 00:24:00tell 'em on ice and elevate and then come back if it doesn't you know, get better. But sick call is where the medics, I guess, triage them and see like what kind of interventions they would need. And then if they return to work or take off to go do X, Y and Z.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. And did you have any sort of was there anything that you learned that was especially challenging for you at the time or especially fun or anything like that?

CARROLL: I was great at IV's. I don't know why, but I was very good at them. And it's so funny because my husband's horrible at them and we would always practice in each other. He can never get me. And I have a hard vein, so I love doing IVs.

I guess challenging for me is the combat casualty assessment and remembering like what to do first because it's airway, breathing, circulation. And that's 00:25:00like the the way that you go first, but you like make sure they're not bleeding, you know, superbad. So I think it's like, what is the first part? It's like hemorrhaging, airway, bleeding, circulation. Yeah. HABCs. So you make sure they're not hemorrhaging first and then the airway, then the breathing and then the circulation. So, like remembering all the steps that you have to do to evaluate someone in a combat scenario is kind of difficult to remember.

ROWELL: Out of curiosity. So, airway and then breathing. So if somebody is at a position where they're not breathing, how can you assess whether their airways are clear?

CARROLL: Yeah. So what you do is you do like a head tilt, chin lift, see if you can get a rise and fall of the chest. And if you don't get that, you do airway intervention. So usually, you'll start with an NPA and see if you get any kind of response from that. And then you can auscultate, which means taking your this is a in a combat situation but like you basically just put your ear to their chest and see if you hear anything that might be like blood or crackling that 00:26:00determines like what kind of injury they have. And then you would do interventions that way.

ROWELL: Okay. And were there any particular training exercises that were memorable to you at that time?

CARROLL: Um, I would say at the very end you do something called Camp Bullis, which is like where they basically put you in combat situations for four days, I want to say, or is it a week or maybe a week? But you do all sorts of different things. You do like a casual combat casualty. CCP. Combat Casualty. I don't know what the P stands for.

ROWELL: That's okay.

CARROLL: I don't know. I know you just learn the acronyms. You don't learn what they mean. But basically, it's like the aid station where they bring in all the injured people from like combat. And you learn how to, like, do it with that and they turn off the lights in case things are getting shot. And they're like shooting rounds outside, not live rounds, but like blanks. And just to give you 00:27:00that kind of sense, and then you treat patients in that way. We also did one where we have to go search and rescue patients. So basically, like patients would get like fake injuries and they would go put them on like hills and mountains and shit and we'd have to go find them and then take them by a litter, like carry them down and then, you know, do our assessment there and what else can we do. It's kind of a lot of just like the same thing, similar to that.

ROWELL: Yeah. Wow.

CARROLL: And then at the end, we did like our official combat casualty assessment in front of our AIT instructors to see if we passed or go or no go or pass.

ROWELL: Mm hmm.

CARROLL: So that was like the very end. That was like the one thing I struggled with the most was to do that. So then we did like nighttime stuff. So and there was one day when we were all, each platoon would cycle through different areas. So one day our platoon were all the casualties. So we got to like, put ourselves 00:28:00in blood and like, make ourself injured, so.

ROWELL: It sounds like fun.

CARROLL: It was fun.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Yeah. Because we were so tired. So we just fall asleep on the side of a hill and we're like, hey, battle buddy are you okay? And we're just like, Yeah, we're like. Look at our injury card. We're tired. Don't drop me. Yeah.

ROWELL: And what unit were you with at this time, by the way?

CARROLL: This was all just the training at Port Hills.

ROWELL: Still training?

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. All right.

CARROLL: At Fort Sam Houston. Sorry.

ROWELL: So no, no assignment yet.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Makes sense. Let's see. Is there anything else about combat? Your combat medic training that you want to talk about?

CARROLL: No, I don't think so.

ROWELL: We covered a lot.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: And you talked about getting more kind of freedom to do things off post.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: What was that like for you?

CARROLL: I guess I'll probably explain my husband part then.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah.

CARROLL: So my husband and I, like, kind of knew each other and basic training, 00:29:00and he asked me to set him up with one of my friends because he thought I had a boyfriend. And we got to AIT and we, like, progressively got closer for like a week. And then we went on holiday block leave where we got to go home for Christmas. So like I was really close, but we stayed up and talked every night until like 4 a.m. So then when we finally, like got back, we realized like, no, we need to stay together. And so, we were together ever since then and did everything together.

ROWELL: Wow. Yeah. Was there a lot of other. Were there a lot of other people dating at that time, too?

CARROLL: Yeah. It's kind of like a a thing for people to get married. Like, to their a-. We call 'em AIT battle booth. And there were like, for other people who are kind of in relationships. All of them went to go get married right after. And I think all of them are divorced except for us, which is kind of sad, but it's the norm.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: So, we love saying like, I'm still married to my AIT Battle Booth seven 00:30:00years later. So yeah, there were a lot of other couples, and we usually hung out with like the other couples, so.

ROWELL: Okay. Um, and so did you get married right after AIT?

CARROLL: Four days after grad, Three days after graduation.

ROWELL: Wow. Okay.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: So, what was planning that like while you were still in AIT?

CARROLL: We did a courthouse wedding.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: Yeah. So, I guess he never really officially proposed. Sort of. He did. Um, we knew we were going to get married, and his parents came down. His parents had no idea he was even in a relationship. Now he just sprung on my, like I'm getting married.

So we were in San Antonio, so his parents came. We're like, we want to stay for the wedding. So, like, it was raining and flooding in Texas. Like the courthouse was closed for two days. So, we went and looked at rings and I was like, I am in love with this ring. So, he was like, okay, we can get it. So, we get the car, and he goes, do you wanna go to a park or something? And I was like, no, I just want to wear it. So yeah, he was like, Will you marry me? So that's our little 00:31:00engagement story.

ROWEELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: And then we got married the day after.

ROWELL: Are you wearing your engagement ring?

CARROLL: I am.

ROWELL: Oh, yeah. It's the one. That's--

CARROLL: This one.

ROWELL: Okay, you want to get a little closer to the camera?

CARROLL: Oh, sure.

ROWELL: Just for posterity, you know. There we go. All right, so it's the one that's closer to your knuckle.

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: All right. So. And who attended your wedding? Who is in the wedding party? Was it all AIT people?

CARROLL: No. No one came from AIT.

ROWELL: Oh, okay.

CARROLL: We actually having a bigger wedding, like because I got deployed right after. So we had a bigger wedding a year and a half later. But this one, it was just my mom, my mom's boyfriend at the time, Angelo. My little brother and then his parents were the only ones that were there. Then we just had cake at my family's house and waited until my leave was over, till I had to show up at Fort Bliss.

ROWELL: Okay. So yeah. So, if you're ready, let's move into your time at Fort Bliss before deployment. So, was your husband there at Fort Bliss as well?

CARROLL: No, he was National Guard.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: So, he got to, um. He just moved in with or moved with me since we were married. We just lived off post, so.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: And then so once you at Fort Bliss, what unit were you assigned to?

CARROLL: I was in third Brigade, first Armored Division. And 177 Armor Battalion. Yeah. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. That's what I have written down.

CARROLL: 311177. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. There you go. And then how long were you at Fort Bliss before your deployment?

CARROLL: Two months.

ROWELL: Okay. Short?

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: So, what did in that short period your day-to-day responsibilities kind of look like?

CARROLL: I was a sick call medic, and we basically, I had to get up at, like 4:30 in the morning, go to sick call by, like 5:15, and then see all the people before we went to P.T. So I would see all the people and then go to P.T. And then we had multiple Mondays where we looked at all of our vehicles and made 00:33:00sure they were running correctly. And then other than that, it was just like inventorying a lot of our medical equipment, getting ready for deployment, you know, that kind of stuff. Just making sure we had all the right stuff, make sure we were all up to date on all of our certifications. And going through SRP [Soldier Readiness Processing], which I have no idea what that stands for. Soldiers Readiness Program, maybe?

ROWELL: That sounds great, but I'm not sure.

CARROLL: Go through that and make sure we were all deployment ready, get all the shots we needed to go. Like for deployment. It was very quick because like end processing took a week and then, you know, actually being in the unit and then getting used to all the people there and then deploying right away.

ROWELL: So yeah. So when did you find out you were going to be deployed?

CARROLL: I knew through word of mouth before I graduated AIT and I knew I was assigned to the unit, and I heard they were deploying. When I got there that's when I officially, like heard when I had my I can't remember thinking was 00:34:00Sergeant Rios was my in processing person from my unit. So he was like, Yeah, we're deploying. I was like. Okay.

ROWELL: Wow.

CARROLL: Oh, great.

ROWELL: Yeah, really quick.

CARROLL: Freshly married. So.

ROWELL: Yeah. So how did you feel about that when you first learned that?

CARROLL: Awful. I mean, you know, we were still like in our honeymoon phase, and it was just like we're finally building this life together and getting our first apartment and getting furniture for it. And now all of a sudden, I'm leaving. I left exactly two months after I got married. So, we got married April 19th, and I left on June 19.

ROWELL: So how did your husband react to that as well, or the other members of your family too? How did they react?

CARROLL: They were all nervous. I mean, it's just Kuwait, so it wasn't anything like crazy. But I think my mom was excited for me to be close, close-ish to home again. So, everyone was just kind of like sad that I was leaving, you know, that 00:35:00they wouldn't see me for several months. And I was pretty sad about it, especially since, you know, I was in a new relationship, and I don't want to leave. So.

ROWELL: Yeah. Did you kind of make any plans for staying in contact either, you know, with your husband, with your family--

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: --before you deploy?

CARROLL: So we have our phones. So it was okay to have our phones. And I knew that when you get there, there's this thing called an Internet park that you could carry around in your pocket, and it's like a little hotspot. So I was able to communicate constantly.

ROWELL: Wow.

CARROLL: Yeah, it was nice.

ROWELL: Wild.

CARROLL: I know.

ROWELL: And so can you tell me a bit about that preparation process, like the SRP, what that consisted of what you did.

CARROLL: It was just really going around. It was like in processing and basic training. Just go around, sit and wait, make sure all your papers are right and you have all the right vaccines that all your certifications are up to date to be a medic.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CAROLL: Just kind of that.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Stuff boring.

ROWELL: Yeah. Did you do any special training other than that to be deployment ready?

CARROLL: No, I never had to go to any of the NTCs [National Training Center] and 00:36:00on I didn't have to do any field training beforehand because it was all done by the time I'd gotten there because they were ready to deploy. So.

ROWELL: How did you feel about that if, if you had any feelings about it?

CARROLL: Oh, I don't know. I think I was just kind of lost in the sauce because I was just so like new. I was 19 and just in this adult world and being told I have to go to the Middle East.

ROWELL: Yeah. So, can you tell me a bit about traveling to Kuwait and then the day that you arrived?

CARROLL: Yeah, I'm traveling to, I remember we were on a double decker plane, which I'd never been on in my life. It was huge. And I want to say we stopped in Germany on the way, and which is pretty cool because I'd never been out in the country before. So going to Germany was fun. But then I also smoked cigarettes at the time. Now we were thinking like, damn, I want a cigarette, I'm running 00:37:00out of cigarettes. And then Germany didn't sell packs of cigarettes they only sold cartons and I was like, I'm not going to buy a carton of cigarettes for however much.

And I remember getting off the plane in Kuwait and everyone tried to explain what it felt like. It is so different, if you could imagine like a blow dryer in your face and then throw some sand in it like that is the description of Kuwait. And I remember like looking at the sky and it was so foggy and just like it was just weird. It was just such a different vibe. And there was no trees anywhere, just sand, sand everywhere. So, I'm actually like bussing into like Camp Buehring where we were at, was crazy cause I actually before I left for the deployment, I had a hip issue. I got an MRI of my hip. So, like while I'm on the plane, I guess the doctor must have called me and told me that I had a torn labrum in my hip. So, I went on deployment with a messed-up hip, and I were like 00:38:00getting there and be like, Oh crap. And having to do the [reprocessing??] into the place and navigating this massive base and figure out where I lived carrying all my bags. Like it was just really stressful because I'd been up for like hours and just stressful figuring out where I was staying and walking everywhere cause it was just a lot of walking cause that place is huge. So, stressful.

ROWELL: Yeah, a lot bigger than like Fort Bliss or.

CARROLL: No, it's just like, cause for Bliss you can drive places. You don't have a car or anything there. So, like, and it's all just dirt and gravel paths. So.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: And so, what was your rank when you got there?

CARROLL: Um, I think I was an E two when I got there.

ROWELL: Okay. And what else do you kind of remember about what Camp Buehring looked like? You know, how it felt. The ways in which it may feel very different.

CARROLL: Well, there's just a lot of tan giant tents, is what it is. That's all it is. Just giant tents everywhere. Bathroom like trailers, I guess. But it was just very beige. Just very beige.

ROWELL: I saw some footage from like 2016 and they had like a standalone Subway.

CARROLL: Oh, yeah.

ROWELL: Stuff like that. Did they have food?

CARROLL: Yeah. They have. Their every night, every Thursday night I play bingo with my friends [laughs] and they had like different areas, a lot of smoke pits.

ROWELL: What are those?

CARROLL: Like bomb shelters. But that's where everyone would smoke their cigarettes. So, it was like cinder block kind of things that just like they made a shelter out of.

ROWELL: And was just kind of a smoking section?

CARROLL: Yeah, it was a smoking section. I was there frequently.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. Did you start smoking when you joined or?

CARROLL: No, I've been smoking since I was like 16. I had smoke for years. I 00:40:00quit in 2019. I wanna say.

ROWELL: Congratulations.

CAROLL: Oh, thanks.

ROWELL: So, can you also describe what your day-to-day experience kind of was working in Camp Buehring?

CARROLL: I was a sick call or not a sick call. I was an aid station medic there, so I did 12 on, 12 off and I would do night shifts. So, I would go to the aid station for 12 hours at night and just kind of hang out there in case we had anything happen. And nothing really ever did. Two things did. But it was funny because it happened in the same night. It was weird. It was Thanksgiving. No, what it was Thanksgiving? I think it was Thanksgiving because Kuwait's a dry country, but on holidays they would cart like bring in forties of German beer and you could have one beer, you know, while you were eating. So like I went to 00:41:00we had midnight chow for people who worked like third shift. And so I would go to a midnight chow and I was like, Yeah. And my sergeant was like, Yeah, you could have the beer or whatever. So when I got back, it was just like, Oh my God, this guy chopped his finger off and it was like, Oh my God, I've had a beer. I haven't drink in forever and I'm a little drunk. [Both laugh].

ROWELL: And it's dry. Right. So you're more dehydrated and stuff.

CARROLL: I was. I just remember having to, like, deal with that and being like a little tipsy.

ROWELL: So what did you do? What do you do for a finger? Do you try to reattach?

CARROLL: So we had to just basically do what we could there and then send them off to somewhere else. But we can't really reattach. We had two partially severed fingers in the same night. Oh, yeah. Like within 30 minutes of each other. It's like the first person. I think he was carrying a dresser back to his tent or something like that. And he dropped it in between, like the whatever and just severed--

ROWELL: the joints--

CAROOLL: the tips of these [shows her fingers]. And then the other person was 00:42:00closing the hatch on the tank and cut, you know. Cut it off.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: So we just attempted to sew off that one because that one was only sew that one, the tank one because that one was only partially severed. And the other one we just had to wrap and set them off.

ROWELL: Was he able to recover if it was not attached?

CARROLL: I saw him a couple-- I saw him a couple of weeks later and he kept his fingertips.

ROWELL: Okay. Well good for him then. Yeah. Stressful night, though.

CARROLL: Yeah, it was a stressful night.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: But at least I had a beer. So.

ROWELL: Whether it helped or hurt; we'll never know, but, and so how was it for you adjusting to the third shift?

CARROLL: Difficult, because having to. We shared our tent with 60 other women. So, like, in sometimes the air conditioning would go off and it would mainly be during the day. So like during the day I'd be sleeping and people were filtering in and out of the tent and it's just loud and hot and having to deal with like, okay, guys, like I'm just trying to sleep. So that was kind of difficult.

ROWELL: Yeah. Do you want to say anything else about what you remember with the 00:43:00living conditions and what that was like for you?

CARROLL: There was 60 women tents, so we had like a bunch of bunk beds, and I didn't have a bunk mate, so thank God. But we made these things called Jack shacks is what we called them. And you would take like your blankets and put it around your area. So you have like a, you know, and then we have like our, like wall locker. So I had food that my husband would send me and my wall locker on the top shelf, but the place was infested with sand mice or tiny little mice, and they were adorable, but like people would put out sticky traps. So, in the middle of the night, like, I didn't work night shift every like it was one week on, one week off kind of thing. So in the middle of the night, you just hear these mice just screaming. So I would take them, and I would go take them off the sticky trap and put them back outside. I remember telling my husband I was like calling him crying. He's like, put sand on the stick or like on the 00:44:00whatever, and then use a tongue depressor and get them off. And that's what I did. Saved a lot of sand mice.

ROWELL: Wow. Did anybody ever see you doing that?

CARROLL: Yeah. And they were like, why would you that? I'm like, because I'm sick of hearing them screaming. Like it was just so sad.

ROWELL: Yeah. Well, you're trying to sleep?

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah, for sure. So your unit took part in Operation Spartan Shield?

CARROLL: Yes. I'm pretty sure it's that.

ROWELL: That makes-- I, I did some research, and I kind of. I think I confirmed that.

CARROLL: Okay, cool.

ROWELL: Cause I know it was all uncertain initially but can you, what can you tell me about that?

CARROLL: I think it was really just like, maintaining Camp Buehring and just making sure that, you know, we had other bigger units who were coming through there. Camp Buehring was kind of like a, like a stopping ground for people going to Iraq and Afghanistan. So, they'd stop there and process in and then go to Iraq and Afghanistan. And we were kind of like that. They filter through units there to man the place. So, we were like that unit to man the place.

ROWELL: Okay. And then can you talk a little bit about the work culture that you 00:45:00experienced while you're at Camp Buehring?

CARROLL: Um, I would say I was the only lower enlisted female medic, so I experienced sexual harassment when I was there. And I guess I tried talking to my, like, senior leadership about it. It was kind of brushed off. And I guess that's really all I kind of want to say about that. Is that's okay?

ROWELL: Yeah. No, thank you for sharing that. I appreciate it. I'm sorry you went through it.

CARROLL: Yeah, I'm really open about it now, but just I don't know.

ROWELL: Were you able to talk to anybody else about it while you were there?

CARROLL: My husband knew, so I talked to my husband about it. No one else really knew about it because they'd have to, they technically called mandated reporters. So, if they knew if something happened, they'd have to report it. And I didn't want that to go on. So.

ROWELL: Um, if you feel comfortable, can you tell me a little more about that? Like why you felt why you would not feel comfortable with somebody coming forward about it?

CARROLL: Because most people don't believe women, unfortunately. And I, I was so new that was young. And, you know, I was married and there's a stigma that you cheat on your [??] whenever you're gone. I obviously never did that, but I didn't want it to be chalked up to, oh, she's just flirting with other people and now she's trying to use it as sexual harassment. It's like, I didn't want eyes to be on me. I guess if they didn't need to be.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. Was that a-- was there kind of a feeling that you that pervaded your experience, that you were you felt uncomfortable in your work environment, or you don't have to talk about If you want to.

CARROLL: I'd rather not. If that's okay.

ROWELL: That's fine. That's fine. We'll skip it here. You've already said, said enough. I appreciate that. Okay. So, while you're at Camp Buehring, you 00:47:00mentioned that you went to Iraq for a day or so?

CARROLL: A day? Yes.

ROWELL: Okay. Would you like to tell me about that experience?

CARROLL: Sure. We, to get our deployment patches. We did a cycle of tail swaps. So basically, we took I don't I can't remember it was a Chinook or a Blackhawk. I think it was a Chinook. Took a Chinook to Iraq, switched them out, and then came back. Let me put a medic on it. So I was the medic on it, I ate on the airbase.

ROWELL: So they took a medic, you know, for just for--

CARROLL: --Just in case anything happens.

ROWELL: --Emergency, situation. Had you heard of anything happening in those on those kinds of trips?

CARROLL: No, not that.

ROWELL: All right. Yeah. So pretty uneventful.

CARROLL: Yeah, I had a very uneventful deployment.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. Yeah. What was it like for you crossing the border into Iraq?

CARROLL: Oh, I didn't know when we crossed it because we were on the plane or 00:48:00not on the plane. On the Chinook.

ROWEELL: Oh, right. Okay.

CARROLL: But they opened the-- the back hatch. Let us, like, watch out there. So it was kind of fun to see between that because Kuwait is very flat and there's no, like, trees or anything. But Iraq kind of has mountains-ish.

ROWELL: So more vegetation.

CARROLL: Mm-hmm.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: A little more, but not a lot.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. What was the air base like?

CARROLL: Oh, I literally sat on the tarmac the entire time and ate a burger, so I don't get to see anything.

ROWELL: Right. Did you have burger access back at Camp Buehring or was that?

CARROLL: Yes. Yeah. They had, like, Subway and a Burger King, and I can't remember what else they had, like, a smoothie place. It wasn't great, but it wasn't horrible. So

ROWELL: Something.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: So what did, what else did you do for fun while you were at Camp Buehring? So you said Bingo.

CARROLL: Talk to my husband. Bingo was every Thursday night. And I actually played with one of my friends who I went to the AIT with.

ROWELL: Oh. Okay.

CARROLL: So she was in a different unit in the same like brigade as we were. So I got to see her, and that's really all I did. Oh, no, I just slept. We played Catan. Oh, yeah, we play Catan. I love Catan.

ROWELL: Settlers with Catan.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Is was there like, a lot of board game playing going on?

CARROLL: Yeah. At the USO [United Service Organizations], they had some board games, and sometimes I would go there, sometimes I wouldn't. I was really I think I was I was really depressed when I was deployed, so I kind of just kept to myself.

ROWELL: If you feel comfortable talking about it. Was that because of the separation that you were experiencing?

CARROLL: Yeah. And then the sexual harassment. Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah, definitely.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Affect your mental health.

CARROLL: For sure.

ROWELL: For sure. Did you did you happen to seek any treatment for that for that specifically while you were deployed.

CARROLL: Not for the sexual harassment when I was deployed, but I did seek it for the depression. And I was put on Wellbutrin at the time, which I had an 00:50:00adverse reaction to. So I got to take it off. And then I saw mental health, like, a couple of times.

ROWELL: Mm hmm.

CARROLL: It wasn't like the Army doesn't foster active Army, does not foster a good mental health like outlook. I guess they don't really take a lot of pride in that. I guess kind of like smile and move on with your day.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. And were you kind of feeling that at the time? Were you feeling like I might you know, I might want to reach out, but there really wasn't anything there to catch me. If I do.

CARROLL: Yeah, for sure.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. Good to know. So, are there any other kind of memories or events from deployment that you'd like to discuss?

CARROLL: I don't think so. It's pretty boring. Everyone was asked, like, Oh, you were there. And I'm like, Yeah, it was nothing, really.

ROWELL: How long were you there for, by the way?

CARROLL: Eight months.

ROWELL: Eight months? Did you ever get to travel while you were there?

CARROLL: No.

ROWELL: Okay. Just the same, you know, same boat.

CARROLL: Same thing.

ROWELL: Same everything. Yeah. And then. So you, did you leave earlier than expected?

CARROLL: I did.

ROWELL: Okay. Would you like to talk more about that?

CARROLL: Yeah. My hip had gotten worse. So I got put on the earliest chalk to come back home, and I had hip surgery when I got back. So the next, like, year of my life in the military was all, um, rehab, trying to fix my hip. And then I got separated medically, so.

ROWELL: Yeah. And did you do was there any specific event or anything that was related to acquiring that injury?

CARROLL: I have no idea. I have no idea what happened. I know it was in the military, but I don't know, like what I did to have gotten the injury.

ROWELL: And so you stayed within the same unit when you returned to the state?

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: Okay. And can you tell me where you received treatment for your injury?

CARROLL: William Beaumont, Army Medical Center.

ROWELL: Is at Fort Bliss, right?

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Okay. If you want to. Do you want to tell me a bit about your experience 00:52:00at that hospital, what it was like to stay there?

CARROLL: You know, it wasn't bad. It's honestly one of the better hospitals that military has to go for. So the my surgeon was really nice. You know, we got in pretty quickly and the surgery was pretty quick and recovery was easy. And they were very like hands on that kind of stuff. So I never fully recovered. Obviously, that's why I got medically separated. But.

ROWELL: Yeah, so. So actually, would you like to talk now about that? So your separation from the Army and the circumstances around that?

CARROLL: Yeah. I guess I just like, didn't recover. I couldn't run anymore without having pain and they wanted to do a second surgery, but I didn't want to get a second surgery in the military, so I just got mad, poured it out.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. So you went before a medical board, and they did, they decided you were--

CARROLL: I didn't go before like anyone, but they, like my doctor decided that that's what the, like thing was. He's like, I think you should be separated.

ROWELL: Okay, gotcha.

CARROLL: Because you're not combat effective anymore.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. Right. How did you feel about that at the time?

CARROLL: Excited. God, I wanted out so bad. I just. After everything that had happened, I guess I just didn't like. I just wanted to move on with my life. And, you know, actually, I moved here [Wisconsin], and I just wanted to. I feel like the army was such a source of depression and anxiety for me that I just felt like I just I needed out. So I wanted out very badly.

ROWELL: Right. And how did it feel when you when you just returned from deployment before separating? What's that like for you?

CARROLL: It was weird coming back and not seeing my husband in person for the longest time and trying to, like, adjust to not having that routine anymore was kind of hard and like living in a place I've never lived in before because my husband moved apartments while I was gone and then getting the surgery and then 00:54:00I gained a bunch of weight after the surgery because I was inactive and I was eating all the food I couldn't eat when I was deployed. So it was hard to adjust.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. And was that all happening while you were still with Army or?

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Oh, okay. All right. And so when did you leave the Army? By what year?

CARROLL: February of 18.

ROWELL: 18, yeah. And then what was your rank when you separated

CARROLL: B 4.

ROWELL: Okay. And then before we transitioned into talking about life as a civilian afterwards, is there anything else you'd like to talk about? About your experience in the Army?

CARROLL: No. I don't think so.

[End of segment one] [Beginning of segment two]

ROWELL: This begins segment two of the interview with Adam Carroll on February 21st, 2023. So we were discussing your transition out of the Army and your medical separation. Can you talk a little bit about what those what those few months were like for you?

CARROLL: Actually getting out?

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: I guess it was difficult because, you know, having to move all of my stuff across the country and figure out a place to live here [Wisconsin]. But it was a lot of processing and trying to get the right rating for a disability rating for my hip injury, which was about all which I still never ended up getting a decent reading. So. It was kind of stressful.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Trying to figure out what I was going to do and what was my job going to be when I got out and how we're going to move with our dogs and yeah.

ROWELL: Do you feel comfortable talking a bit about, like, walking me through that process, what that was like for you trying to get that certain disability rating? What happened with it?

CARROLL: I don't honestly, I don't know if this is the PTSD [Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder], but I don't remember.

ROWELL: That's okay.

CARROLL: I don't remember a lot of things.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: A lot of my stuff is very like big. And I do remember going through and talking to a lawyer and seeing if my writing was okay, but I just wanted out. So 00:56:00I was like, you know, I'm just gonna take anything because I'm not going to stand any longer.

ROWELL: Okay. And so when did you both decide that you were going to move back to Wisconsin?

CARROLL: We knew we were going to go from the very get go because he's from here. So we knew that's where I wanted to get out of Texas. So, that's where I knew I want to be.

ROWELL: Yeah. And your husband, Ian, was still in the guard at this time?

CARROLL: No.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: He had a weird experience getting out that probably don't wanna talk about.

ROWELL: That's all right. All right. And do you know about when he got out?

CARROLL: No. I have no idea.

ROWELL: That's fine. It's just contextual.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: So did you feel when you were getting out, did you feel like you were able to take advantage of any kind of areas of support for you as a new vet? Anything like that?

CARROLL: Um, no, not at first. Getting out in the first year of getting it first two years, really. I got a job as a medical assistant here [Wisconsin] and just 00:57:00worked full time doing that. And the VA [Veteran Administration], like, met with me and told me about, like, all the stuff that I had but didn't really, like, push anything, which I guess is kind of like my fault and theirs. But I had undiagnosed PTSD at the time and diagnosed like severe depression anxiety. So like getting out and actually like finding a life outside of military was really difficult for those first two years.

ROWELL: And was your partner going through the same thing around the same time?

CARROLL: No. He compartmentalizes things and can handle them very well internally. Whereas I like to outrage, not outrage cause I don't really get mad. I'm not a bad person, but I don't know how to--

ROWELL: --Feel your feelings?

CARROLL: I guess. So. Like I didn't find anything better in friendly or knew what to do until I started school at UWM [University Wisconsin-Milwaukee].

ROWELL: Okay. And so before that, you pursued an Associate's degree. Do you 00:58:00wanna tell me a bit about that?

CARROLL: Yeah, I got a I was by plan was to go to nursing school, and I got an Associate's degree at Purdue University Global in health science. And I was planning on transferring I transferred to Arizona State University to do nursing and then decided I didn't want to do nursing. So I just did the regular biological science and then transferred, decided my husband and I decided that I was going to take off working full time and do school full time and then work part time. So that's what I ended up transferring to UW Milwaukee.

ROWELL: Okay. And so was that like online learning with a Arizona State?

CARROLL: It was online.

ROWELL: I figured. And where did you move to in Wisconsin, by the way?

CARROLL: We first lived at Shorewood and then after three months, we ended up buying a house here in Bayview.

ROWELL: Okay. Right. What was that like? Did you apply for a home loan through the VA at all?

CARROLL: Yeah, we have a VA loan. It doesn't. I don't know exactly who it's 00:59:00like. It was through, like, a local mortgage company that got us, like, a VA benefit here. And then they sold our mortgage to Mr. Cooper or something like that. So that's what we go through now.

ROWELL: Okay. And during this whole time, how did you how were you received either as a young veteran, as a young female veteran?

CARROLL: Not well, every time I went to the VA, they were like, excuse me Miss, the employee entrance is over there. Or like when I came, they feel like, okay, what's what's the veterans like? And I'm like, I'm better. And so that's, you know, I was 21, too, so like, I was very young.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: Definitely wasn't received well. Female veterans aren't received well at the VA in my opinion.

ROWELL: Yeah. Wow. Okay. That's, yeah, that's a whole level.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: And so for you did that did that affect your mood or willingness is the wrong word, but the level of comfort you had in reaching out to them for further care?

CARROLL: Oh, yeah.

ROWELL: Okay.

CARROLL: I never reached out for any kind of care until I went to UW Milwaukee and met the people at the Military Veterans Resource Center. And they were like, You really need to take charge in your mental health because it's a shit show. And I'm like, I agree. And so that's when I finally started seeking care and realizing the mental health benefits of the VA. Phenomenal. But as far as like female care, not so good.

ROWELL: Okay. And can you, if you feel comfortable, talk a bit about that process of of ultimately seeking mental health care and how you came to the point where you did decide that it was something you wanted to do and maybe something about how your peers, your veteran peers at UW helped you realize that was necessary for you.

CARROLL: Um. I think I this became self-destructive of like, not eating well. Gaining a lot of weight. Not caring about myself. You know, dressing awful. 01:01:00Like, I just. I didn't care myself. Was failing classes left and right. And someone finally said, like, there's something going on. I'm like, yeah. So I had, like, a breakdown and soughtt out the emergency mental health clinic there. And that's when I finally started, like, realizing that I had a lot more going on than I thought I did initially.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CARROLL: So that's where they kind of, like, opened the doors. And, you know, I knew the resources to get a better disability rating through the Military Veterans Resource Center. And they were very supportive about like, you know, if you need to go to an appointment, go to an appointment, you know, cause I work there. So I'm just very like mental health always comes first. That wasn't something I was used to.

ROWELL: Yeah. Can you talk about how you first came into contact with the Military Veterans Resource Center at UWM?

CARROLL: Um, it was, I want to say, spring 2020 no. Fall 2020, Fall 2020. It was 01:02:00like the first semester that COVID they'd finally opened up the school again. And I was like, I know about campus. I'm going to be doing in-person classes, so I need to actually go in and find out where everything is that I found love and met Ruby and Corey in there. And then I was like, do you guys, are you guys hiring? I got hired. So.

ROWELL: Okay. And can you tell me what your position is there?

CARROLL: It was like front desk even coordination. And then I ended up taking a semester off from working there because my mental health just kept going down the drain until I'm finally like, go back up. Now, I'm the social media manager there.

ROWELL: Okay, that's great. And so what was it like for you being a student as a young veteran?

CARROLL: I'm always the older person in my class because I was always, you know, 18, 19 and, um, I guess, well, no one really knows. I'm a veteran, like a 01:03:00typical veteran, I guess. So I don't know how to explain that.

ROWELL: Yeah. You mentioned to me on the phone some difficulty you experienced socially connecting with people.

CARROLL: Oh yeah.

ROWELL: Even people who worry your, are about your same age.

CARROLL: Yeah. It's cause you're a lot less structured. I think they don't really know who they are and what they want to do. And I know what I am, and I know what I want to do. And I know that sounds kind of like shallow, but it's hard to like, get on that like level with someone who is the same age because all people want to do for my age is like party. And I'm not like that, so.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. And you were able to you describe that you were able to get a little more of that connection at the resource center for sure.

CARROLL: Yeah. For sure. When all the doors opened up and Milwaukee has the biggest veteran campus, like a veteran friendly campus, I guess they also have, 01:04:00like, a huge veteran population here. So I've met a lot of people through them and actually finally made friends and you know, people who support me felt like the same support that I had friend wise in the military.

ROWELL: Wow. Yeah, it's great.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Can you talk a bit about your experience connecting with those other veterans and what that why that feels so important to you?

CARROLL: I think it's just the same mindset. Like, you know, they have that drive that a lot of people don't have unless they have like a purpose in life. And people who have been in the military have been to hell and back. And knowing that you can act on that same level is great. And knowing like you just you can act a certain way around someone is in the military or within the military that you wouldn't be able to act around someone else. So being able to have that level of comfort and knowing that they care about you just as much as you care about them, I think is great. I mean, I know that some of the best friends that I've had in the military and now through the maverick. So.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm. Um, and would you like to talk a bit about your course of study that you're pursuing now at UWM?

CARROLL: Yeah, I'm in journalism, advertising, and media studies, and I'm planning on doing advertising in public re-- public relations, I'm actually thinking about throwing up my own social media company. So.

ROWELL: That's exciting.

CARROLL: They're doing like some, you know, social media maangement for smaller companies that can't afford like a full-time social media person or stuff like that.

ROWELL: That's really exciting.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. And when, how did you decide to make that transition from working in the medical field, pursuing that kind of career to this new tack that you took?

CARROLL: Um, you know, I've been in the medical field and work as a medical assistant for years. After I got out of the military, and that's what I wanted to do when I was a kid. So I'm so scared to, like, change. But I've been doing, like, social media. I do it for the planetarium as well on campus and realized I 01:06:00really like it and very good at it. So I think I just decided to make the change because it made me happy instead of just like doing something because that's what I thought I want to do. It's like, I know I want to do this.

ROWELL: Okay. And so you are president of Students Student Veterans for America at this moment, is that correct?

CARROLL: Yes. Student Veterans of America.

ROWELL: Oh, sorry.

CARROLL: That's Okay.

ROWELL: I misread my own question. Yeah. So can you tell me about how you got involved with them and how you came to take that position.

CARROLL: Through the Military Veterans Resource Center. I came in asking to get more involved in the campus and they said that they need a president for this organization that had been inactive because of COVID. So I was like, You know what? I'll do it. So now I'm doing it. It's kind of been on inactive recently because it's hard to get veterans involved in things because they're adults and they don't spend all their lives on campus. So it's really just kind of like a support system for veterans that save face the same struggles as I did, you 01:07:00know, getting out of the military and finding that like, group of people that are similar.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. Okay. So it's like a mechanism for outreach in your community. Okay. Makes sense. And then would you like to talk about your work on the Veterans Advisory Council, counsel to the chancellor at UWM.

CARROLL: It's really [isn't??] much honestly. Obviously, just meeting and listen.

ROWELL: Yeah. So what do you what do you view as some of the most important issues that pertain to student veterans on campus?

CARROLL: Um. I don't know. There's not really many issues. It's a great veteran campus. It really is. They have so many like Veteran Service offices there. And, you know, they have like five, you know, the maverick, the Military Education Benefits Office success on campus. A couple other things, two other things. I just can't. Veteran Upward Bound, maybe it's only four, but there's just a lot 01:08:00of support for veteran there.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CARROLL: But I think just any other mobile vets that are there comes every month too, which is great. So.

ROWELL: Can you tell me a little bit more about that, what that is?

CARROLL: It's the WDVA [Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs] and they do vet center. But this one is like mobile. So you can go there for any kind of like resource and talk to the person like a counselor or seek advice on how to pursue certain things. He has a lot of resources and it's kinda of like a resource truck.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. How did you yourself end up reaching out? Was it more through civilian means when you sought assistance, or was that VA stuff?

CARROLL: No, it was more for the VA. I saw the mental health and emergency department because, you know, I've been through so much and finally broke down to a point where I finally realized I needed to change or like, wanted to change.

ROWELL: Yeah, And went directly to the veteran's resource.

CARROLL: Mm-hmm

ROWELL: Okay, so you're also involved with the Wisconsin Legislative Council for 01:09:00Mishandling Sexual Conduct, sexual assault allegations, rather, in the National Guard?

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: Would you like to tell me a bit about that?

CARROLL: Yeah. So it's a like public legislative council that I had to get I don't know if I was elected on or what. I just go a letter saying I was accepted for it. And basically we met with people who were involved in the Wisconsin National Guard and like the sexual assault and learning how they handled things and the different kinds of cases that have been mishandled and trying to come up with the legislation to fix that. Honestly, I think towards the end they got very lost and they weren't necessarily focused on fixing the problem rather than like amending certain pieces. So that was kind of frustrating. They talked a lot of legal jargon and it I personally don't think it went where it should went.

ROWELL: Okay. Yeah. Thanks for sharing that.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. So you also were involved in initiating the I Am Not Invisible 01:10:00Project at UW which of which you are a part?

CARROLL: Yes.

ROWELL: So can you tell me about that process and how that came to be?

CARROLL: Yolanda Medina. She is fantastic. She wanted to do some kind of University of Wisconsin Milwaukee. I'm not visible thing, so we can have a display there. And we found that the Veterans Museum didn't want to expand their exhibit. So, we were like, you know what? We'll just do, do ours.

ROWELL: Mm-hmm.

CARROLL: And we were on the committee for it and got the event set up and all that kind of fun stuff, so.

ROWELL: And for you personally, why do you feel that that's an important initiative to take?

CARROLL: I don't know. I'm sick of seeing, like, people asking. You can't park in this spot. It's for veterans. Your husband needs to be here. Or what's your sponsor? Social. You know, like women veterans are not as well-recognized as 01:11:00men. And having the signs for that really helps empower us, I think, personally and professionally, because people can see like, okay, they're tough women who have gotten the word out on their own. And it's just hard to do that as a female.

ROWELL: What are some of the other ways that you have engaged with the veteran community in your time since separating?

CARROLL: I think that's it.

ROWELL: We covered a lot.

CARROLL: Yeah. I've done a lot. I just, I really wanted to get involved because I had such a difficult time getting out of the military and, you know, actually talking to someone about it and realizing that my experiences are shared and with those shared experiences come great friendships and being able to talk to 01:12:00someone, lean on someone I think is super beneficial for mental health. So I just wanted to get as involved as I possibly could.

ROWELL: Yeah. And just in your opinion, it's a big question, but in what areas do you feel that recent veterans especially need support most? And are there some ways you think the VA or veterans organizations could better serve them?

CARROLL: Yes. I this is a big topic, but I the last July I got pregnant and when I came to the VA because obviously that's my primary health insurance, they were like, do not come here because we don't do that kind of care. We're going to refer you to an outside source, which is good, right? But it'd be nice to have that care inside the V.A.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: They were like, if you have any emergency like problems regarding the baby, you need to go to an outside facility because they will treat you like an alien here because they thought you had to have a pregnant woman. So I lost the 01:13:00baby in September when I was 13 weeks. Like I told them about it, and they still gave me calls about like program sequences and stuff that was like, it's just I know I'm not the only pregnant female veteran that probably goes there, so need to have some kind of maternity ward because that's just ridiculous.

ROWELL: Yeah, it's a whole section of care.

CARROLL: Literally, a whole section of care that does not exist.

ROWELL: Specifically for young women. That's.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Wow. Thank you for sharing that.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: I'm sorry you went through that. Yeah. And if you feel comfortable having having sought out resources for recovery after your experiences, after your harassment experiences, what might you say to someone else who might be struggling with their own experiences? Who is now out of the military? What 01:14:00might you what advice would you give to them?

CARROLL: Get involved. You know, there are a lot of different resources that are just as easily accessible as just typing it on a computer, but you just need to take that step. And taking that step is really difficult. And usually it takes getting to rock bottom. But don't let yourself get to rock bottom first because doing that is going to destroy a whole part of your life that you could have been doing better things.

ROWELL: Thank you for sharing that.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah. Um, so reflecting on your service with the Army as you are now, what does it mean to you?

CARROLL: Mmm. I think it gave me structure that I needed to have in my life. But I do think it's not a very female friendly organization, and I don't know if it ever can be. So, there's anything I can do to change that or help people get out for females, that's what I want to do now.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: So. Yeah. Let me know.

ROWELL: Yeah. Do you care to talk about some of the ways in which some of the barriers that you see personally to more inclusive experiences for women in the military?

CARROLL: I guess I've already touched on them as far as, like, the VA goes and--

ROWELL: Mm hmm.

CARROLL: Women definitely aren't-- women are definitely not as easily received as a veteran in any circumstance.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: And I think that there's definitely some kind of, like, stigma that, that are women veteran or just not cool, but not as bad ass as men veteran-- men veteran are. Veterans.

ROWELL: Yeah. They don't they're not admired in the same way, even though they have the same in other experiences.

CARROLL: Women, oh, you probably work behind a desk or, you know, those kinds of things. And you're probably a nurse, like, you know. And it's like, I don't know if that stigma to ever be broken.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: And I hope that doing this will do that. But I just think that it's a mentality that just civilians have.

ROWELL: Mm hmm. Is there anything else that we didn't cover today yet that you would like to discuss?

CARROLL: [Pause] Don't think so.

ROWELL: Okay. We can wait--wait on it for a second if you want to or wrap up. Covered a lot of ground today.

CARROLL: No, I-- we cover a lot.

ROWELL: We did covered a lot of ground today.

CARROLL: Yeah.

ROWELL: Yeah.

CARROLL: No, I think that's it.

ROWELL: All right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Autumn. This concludes the interview with Autumn Caroll on February 21st, 2023.