00:00:01SPRAGUE: Today is February 24th, 2023. This is an interview with Saprina Johnson, who served in the United States Navy from 2007 to 2012. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague on Zoom web conference for the I Am Not Invisible project as part of the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the virtual interview room. Okay, Saprina. Tell me a little bit about where you grew up.
00:00:35JOHNSON: Oh, it was actually 2008.
00:00:38SPRAGUE: Oh, sorry. 2008.
00:00:39JOHNSON: I was delayed entry and I got in in 2008, but it started in 2007. But yeah, anyway. But I grew up in Milwaukee off of Palmer and Burleigh. And then, my dad had got a promotion, and then we end up getting a little more money. So we went to, like, the middle blue collar class [laughs] and we end up on the north side of Milwaukee. And we were there until I went to the military.
00:01:13SPRAGUE: Okay. If you could tell me a little bit about-- I know we had talked to you during the pre-interview about your family's military service. If you could tell me a little bit more about that, in particular, your dad as well?
00:01:28JOHNSON: Oh, yeah, my dad was a Marine and my grandfather was Army? But my dad was a Vietnam vet and I think my granddad was a Vietnam vet? He's 80-- 90-- 90. My granddad's 90, so. I don't know if that was Vietnam. But anyway, I know for sure my dad was a Vietnam vet and he was a Marine. And then right now my little brother, he's a Marine. He's serving active duty right now as we speak. A couple of my uncles were Marine, Army. Some cousins were Army, Air Force, Marine. I have a couple-- Yeah, the Navy as well. So, yeah, we have a lot of the different armed forces in my family. I was the first girl to go in the military of the family, so.
00:02:25SPRAGUE: I was going to ask you about that. What feedback did you get from the family on being the first woman to enter the military?
00:02:33JOHNSON: Um, my dad was a little reluctant. My dad was, "you're my smart daughter. You're supposed to go to college. All the girls in the family go to college." I was like, "Well, I'll go to college after the military," which I did, but [laughs] I promised them that. I kept that promise. But he was very reluctant. He said, "Well, don't go to the-- don't go to the Marines. Don't go to the Army. Go somewhere light, go to the Navy, go to the Air Force, go to the Coast Guard." I was like, "okay." So I end up going to high school, to Bay View High School, where they had the ROTC program for the Navy. So, that's why I chose Navy. [Laughs]
00:03:19SPRAGUE: So, do you think your family encouraged you to go ROTC, to get involved early on, or was that kind of your own choice kind of thing?
00:03:31JOHNSON: That was my own choice. Like I said, my-- even my grandfather, he didn't want me to go to the military either. And my dad didn't want me to go. Everybody had an expectation for me to go to college right away. But I chose military first and then college. It was my own decision. I'd seen the ROTC program and I love it. I love the uniform. I love how it was teaching stability, how it was teaching, like, it had a routine to it. I just liked routine. I've always been like that. Always had to have a routine. I don't know. Rules [laughs].
00:04:23SPRAGUE: Yeah. If you wouldn't mind sharing, you had mentioned in the pre-interview a couple of your instructors at Bay View and JROTC. Would you mind sharing a little of their mentorship for you?
00:04:38JOHNSON: Oh, his name was Donnelly. Senior Chief Donnelly. Master chief. Wait, was it master chief? Oh, man, that was so long ago. But yeah. Well, he wore a white uniform all the time anyway. It was more white. And he was very clean cut. He actually came to my party, my going away party. And when I got back home, he was part of that as well. When I had invited him, I found him on Facebook and invited him to come. But before I left, he kind of convinced me because I liked the persona that he had, the respect that he had. And I liked everything. The way he carried himself. So I was like, "Oh, I want to do that. I want to be like him [laughs]." And then I noticed a couple of the guys were going to the military that was in, um, some of the girls would go too. And I'm like, "okay, I guess this is for me." And I did really well in the ROTC class. Like, I was always, you know, top in the runs, with like, the physical test, the-- any of the class work we had to do. The sailor's creed. I already knew that before I even got in the military. Like, we practiced all that, I was really good at everything. I was one of his favorite students and I really excelled in that class. That's what made me choose the military, the Navy, and then like, I wanted to be him. A girl version of him [laughs].
00:06:24SPRAGUE: Uh, what-- let's see, you mentioned college, getting out after the Navy. Now we're talking-- we're jumping, after your service--
00:06:35JOHNSON: Okay.
00:06:36SPRAGUE: If you can-- just a little bit, we're going to jump back. But you mentioned going to school afterwards. What happened with that, if you don't mind sharing?
00:06:46JOHNSON: Um, I came home, I went to school. I went to UWM [University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee] first. I didn't do well 'cause I was working. And then I end up going to MATC. I said, let me start somewhere else. I went to MATC. Got my associate's degree and then transferred. I was on the transfer into the four year program. I was on that, and then I transferred back into UWM. And then I got my Human Resources Bachelor's degree in Business Administration.
00:07:22SPRAGUE: Okay, we'll come back around to that. That's-- Yep. Okay, cool. What year did you get that bachelor's degree? And just out of curiosity.
00:07:32JOHNSON: 2018. I graduated 2018.
00:07:35SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. At UWM. Got it.
00:07:38JOHNSON: Yep. At UWM.
00:07:40SPRAGUE: Okay. So, let's jump-- UW-Milwaukee. So let's-- you had mentioned and you corrected me on that. Thank you for doing that. On the delayed entry program. Tell me-- yeah, tell me about that and yeah, entering the service.
00:07:57JOHNSON: So, in 2007, I graduated high school. Within two weeks or a week after graduation, I was supposed to go but I got into a car accident and I was in a neck brace and everything. And so I had to do a delayed entry. And I got in-- I went in in 2008.
00:08:20SPRAGUE: So, where did you go-- Where did you go to boot?
00:08:25JOHNSON: Great Lakes Illinois. RCT? RTC I can't remember what it's called. [Laughs]
00:08:36SPRAGUE: Maybe the Regional Training Center is my guess.
00:08:38JOHNSON: Yeah, it is in Great Lakes, Illinois.
00:08:42SPRAGUE: So what was that like?
00:08:44JOHNSON: Um, that was different. I had-- My whole thing was, oh, my God, I cut my hair. I didn't have to cut my hair. [Sprague laughs] I could've wore a weave 'cause I seen a couple girls that was in there with with a weave. I had really long hair and I cut it all off and I had went in there with short hair. So, when I got in there I was, oh my-- that was my first reaction. I said, I didn't have to cut my damn hair! That was my first reaction. Well, they were cutting hair anyway, but I could've put a weave in to not cut my hair. But I wasn't thinking about that. I didn't-- I was-- So, that was my first reaction. [Laughs] But my experience there was-- it was okay. I made a couple friends that I'm still friends with now over Instagram and Facebook. I still talk to them every now and then. We all still get together, like, in Vegas or something and go on like a little trip, maybe once a year, once every other year or something like that. Not since the pandemic we haven't all meshed up together yet. Well, I went to California to hang out with a couple of them, but that was it. But yeah. We still-- we're still all friends. That was actually a nice thing. We all got each other through everything. It was a lot of people couldn't swim. I was helping with learning how to swim. I try to, like, take the initiative to help. I was one of the flag holders 'cause I was short enough in the front [laughs]. So, I held one of the flags. Couldn't sing cadence. I was loud enough for cadence, but I didn't have the voice for cadence. Which I'm still friends with her, actually, the one that sung cadence for us, talked to her earlier today. Um--
00:10:46SPRAGUE: Wow.
00:10:46JOHNSON: Boot camp can be actually nicer then, um, and funner than the real military, actually. We were more supportive of each other. And more tight-knit and trying to make each other pass everything, helping each other. It was like a big study group. We all made sure we all got it done. So-- and our leaders were great. Our leaders were great. There was a particular person that said something racist and our leaders were Black and white, male and female, and they were like-- they like, shut that down. And it was nice the way they shut that down collectively. And I adored that. So, I was looking forward to actually being tight-knit group, you know, the military is going to be great 'cause look at boot camp is great. I did have some problems, you know, with my mental health there, 'cause I was worried. I had some anxiety about my dad 'cause he had a stroke at my party before I went. So I was like thinking about that. But my master chief, or senior chief--- was he a master chief or senior--? I can't remember what he was, but his name was [Win??]. I remember last name, he was a Black guy. He wore brown. So he was either a chief or a master chief. Right? I don't know. I don't know. But I can't remember. But he-- He was able-- He was from Chicago. He was like, "Yeah," you know, "you from Milwaukee, I understand." He was like, "just go ahead." He gave me extra time to finally get a hold of my dad when I first got there. 'Cause when I first-first got there, I wasn't able to get ahold of my dad 'cause he was in the hospital. But then, like, a couple of weeks later, I was able to get a hold of my dad. Like everybody else was they got hold of their family, but me, I didn't get ahold of my family. So, I finally got ahold of my dad. He took me in the office. He was like, "Hey, I noticed something off about you." He was like, "You from Milwaukee. You can handle this. What's going on?" And he's like, "Is something different?" 'Cause he was obviously expecting X, Y, and Z from you 'cause I came in a hard-ass from the first day and I volunteered helping, doing stuff, from the first day I got there. I wasn't even all the way in, but he was like, "I want her. She's going to succeed." He said that to me and I ended up being in his group and I did succeed and he's very proud of me. He tells me that all the time. He's retired, he's out of the military now, but he follows my Instagram and he tells me all the time how much he proud of me. He knew I was going to be successful. That's what he kept saying. So. But yeah. And boot camp was nice, though. Boot camp was nice. That was nice and tight-knit. Graduation was nice. It was nice to finally see my family and they were proud. What kept me from fainting, even though-- 'cause, you know, everybody was locked in and their legs were locked. And what kept me from fainting was I was holding the flag for one but, two, my dad kept walking by [laughs]. So, I'm like, "I can't fall." But my dad's seeing that. My dad apparently seen that I was rocking back and forth. My dad seen that I was rocking back and forth. So, he was like, "Oh, let me go check on her." So, that's why he was walking in front of me, apparently. I found that out afterwards that he saw me rocking. So, he came and walked in front of me and that's what actually stopped me from falling and fainting 'cause I'm like, "Oh, my daddy's right here. I can't-- I can't disappoint him." [Laughs] Oh, man. Okay. I'm sorry. I got all off subject. [Laughs]
00:14:30SPRAGUE: No. No worries. [Johnson laughs] So, just out of curiosity, in '08, did they have the genders together at that point or a separate training or how was that?
00:14:42JOHNSON: No, we was together. We had male and female, not in the same dorm, but our guys all were-- So, we were two different divisions, were together in boot camp, but all the girls were together, of the two different divisions, all the males were together for the two different divisions. So, we were 219 and 220 and they had 219 on this side, 220 on the other side, and then same thing on the males-- our males, they were across the hall from us. Our guys were. They were across the hall from us, but-- When we did anything, like sometimes the guys, our 219 guys, would come over to our side and their 220 girls would go over to their side and then we'll like, get our stuff together. We interact with each other, we drew our flags together. We marched together. We were entwined together. That was nice to be in a intersex cohort. Because if we were lacking somewhere where the guys were stronger at, we had them, and like, where they were lacking in the academic part, they had us, and we were taught, you know, helping, teaching each other, things like that. Some people started relationships, which got people in trouble, but I kept it-- We need to get this done. We a cohort. We need to make sure we all get out of here and graduate together, so.
00:16:03SPRAGUE: And you said you were in the 220th? 220th.
00:16:08JOHNSON: No. 219. I was 219.
00:16:10SPRAGUE: 219? You were 219. Sorry.
00:16:11JOHNSON: Yeah. 219 and 220 in ours.
00:16:13SPRAGUE: And those are class numbers? Are they-- What are they called? Is there a particular name or--
00:16:18JOHNSON: I guess that was our cohort. That was-- I was 219 and they were 220. I don't know. [Laughs]
00:16:24SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay.
00:16:25JOHNSON: [Inaudible] I don't know. But we had to say 219.
00:16:28SPRAGUE: Got ya. You said you made a bunch of friends from across the country, one of them even from California who you keep in touch with.
00:16:37JOHNSON: Oh, yeah. California, Seattle, New York, Texas, Florida, North Carolina. Yeah, everywhere. Everywhere, actually. Some of them are still in Chicago. Because they were originally from Chicago. So, I still-- I see them more than anybody.
00:16:59SPRAGUE: Uh-huh. Wow, so lifelong connections then, with people at boot.
00:17:05JOHNSON: Yeah, from boot camp. And then some of us ended up in Virginia together, too.
00:17:09SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah.
00:17:11JOHNSON: So, yep. So, after boot camp, we all went to C school. Some went to C school, some went to A school, but we were still there in Nor-- not in Norfolk. We were still there in Great Lakes, Illinois, and some of us-- From boot camp to there, even from from C school to Virginia to our different ships, like, we were still, like, kind of together in a way, some of us were.
00:17:42SPRAGUE: Tell me about-- you went to C school at Great Lakes. Tell me about your decision to become what you chose?
00:17:51JOHNSON: An engineer?
00:17:52SPRAGUE: Yeah. Tell me about that.
00:17:54JOHNSON: Well, my ASVAB. [Laughs] Okay, so I scored really high on, like, parts and stuff and building things and the engineering parts. I scored really high in that. Which made sense 'cause I was raised by a father, and I [laughs] knew a lot about the engineering stuff than I thought I did, and I would score really good in math too, which I was already good at math. So, I ended up choosing that job, because I was like, "Oh, it's only in Illinois, I can come home," and my recruiter, that was like close to his job. And he was telling me like, how easy it was. And the only thing was that he didn't tell me I would end up being the only girl once I got to my ship. I didn't know I was going to be the only girl. So.
00:18:53SPRAGUE: Dumb question, when you decided to become the engineer fireman on the fireman squad, did you know you were going to be dealing with potable water or was that later down the road?
00:19:08JOHNSON: That I found out in C school I was going to be doing that. I found that out later in C school that that's what I was going to be doing [laughs]. And I'm like, "Oh, okay," So, now I'm working as an engineer, but I'm working with the water to make sure everybody has fresh water. I'm like, "You know, I could have been a scientist." But when I got to my ship now, that's the story I wanted to tell you. That's what I was thinking about earlier today. So, when I got to my ship, I was learning how to do all the potable water and it is in a boiler room and the engine rooms and you got to turn different valves. And I messed up and didn't open a valve and the water was coming through the ship and it was sinking through the ship. And they called us all and made us all stand in front of everybody. And they was embarrassing us. My senior chief was so pissed off at me. I was like, he's like, "Tell me where you did it, what you did." So now that made me draw myself a map. Okay, this is where this is, this where there is, and I got to-- Yeah. So, I came up with my own architect, or engineering map, whatever, where the valves are so that I don't do that again. Make pipes burst in the wall on the ship. [Laughs]
00:20:32SPRAGUE: Wow.
00:20:33JOHNSON: [Laughs] Oh, that was a funny story.
00:20:36SPRAGUE: So, let's tie the two together. Tell us about your ship.
00:20:41JOHNSON: Oh, James E. Williams, DDG-95. I still got my hat to that ship. That's the one thing I was able to save and have, was my hat. It was-- It was like a high school. Everybody was immature, but I still have amazing friends on there too, that I still have to this day, too. I don't know. The food was good, at least. [Sprague laughs]. There wasn't much for me to do because, I don't know, it was more like, put her in a boiler room 'cause I was the only female. And it was a division of seven of us and I was the only girl. So, they just like, "Oh, just put her in the boiler room." They had me in a boiler room and that's all I would do, is sit there and do nothing. Watch movies.
00:21:39SPRAGUE: I have to ask, what-- I mean, honestly, what was that like in those conditions?
00:21:45JOHNSON: Uh. It became a little depressing 'cause I was like, secluded and in the dark sometimes. And like, when they were-- when we went out to the-- when we went out to sea, to run drills, you know, I didn't know what to do or wasn't part of anything until there was a part of the drill was a fake fire in my boiler room, and I didn't know anything about the bells that ring that I'm supposed to know. So, that's where my chief kind of lacked that 'cause he didn't give me no knowledge of anything of anything. And when they came down there, our fire squad came down there and they were like, "What are you doing here?" They yelled at me. And then that's when I was like, okay, that's where I start-- That's when-- that's the day that I was taught AEDs [automated external defibrillators], like everything I started to learn from that day forward, like, what am I supposed to do? And that's how I ended up being on the fire squad for drills and stuff, because I'm supposed to know since I'm in the boiler room, I'm supposed to know the bells. I'm supposed to know where the fire is, how to explain where the fire is, and how to, you know, react to the fire right away and get-- And by me being there anyway, I'm supposed to be part of the fire squad. And I didn't know any of that until that day [laughs], so.
00:23:20SPRAGUE: Wow. A lot of pressure there with having to know all that, but not necessarily getting all the training that you needed.
00:23:28JOHNSON: Yeah, 'cause it was like, "just put her down there" and then like, it was like, a dismissal. Like, my senior chief was very dismissal of me. He was just like, "Go put her over there. Just put her there." But he was very interactive with the guys on the-- in the division, but it was like for me, he was just like, "Just put her over there. Go to the same place you were doing." And I'm like, "Okay, what am I supposed to be doing?" I'm like, "do he even know I'm here [laughs]?"
00:23:54SPRAGUE: So, I know you talked about that a little later on, deciding to become an operations specialist.
00:24:02JOHNSON: Yeah, because that was like, okay, I don't like that I had to get in trouble to learn my job. Twice. I got in trouble twice to learn my job. Like, I didn't have the proper training. So, that's what made me go into another division. Like, I don't like that I'm not getting the proper training. So, that's what made me go into operations specialist, where now I'm just-- now that was even worse 'cause I was just sitting in a dark room looking at computer screens. I did that for a little while. Then I went back to being an engineer 'cause I couldn't take that no more. But the good thing is I was able to rank up high. I was able to rank up fast because the testing, 'cause I was able to study for testing. And the command over there, the division over there, they were very helpful with helping people rank up. So, when I went back to being an engineer, I ended up being a petty officer third class when I went back. And then because of my time being in and then also because of-- I was able to test and because of my time, I was able to rank up the next one and be a petty officer second class. Second class petty officer. So, it's all about time too, of being in, and then testing because of your time, like, you're able to test. So. I was really good at testing. I was a bookworm.
00:25:45SPRAGUE: For the audience, can you explain a little bit about what an operations specialist does?
00:25:51JOHNSON: They're just basically monitoring. Operation specialist, they were monitoring-- We were monitoring like, any incoming ships, anything incoming underwater, animals around us. Just anything in that-- in that form, like. Or at night, we had the night vision stuff up, so we were able to see, you know, just anything that wasn't part of our ship that was incoming around us. That's all really-- that's all I did, was sit at a computer screen. [Laughs] I left that fairly fast [laughs]. I couldn't take that no more. I needed the action and I went back to being an engineer, went back to my old division. And part of like-- part of the fire squad, part of my boiler room, part of the potable water. I'm like, I decide I need to go back over here 'cause I have more to do.
00:26:55SPRAGUE: So, what was that like going back to your original division and after making third class or second class?
00:27:04JOHNSON: We had a guy that had transferred into our ship who was very helpful. He was a-- he was our-- considered our petty officer first class. And he was very helpful. I can't remember his name. I just remember him from North Carolina. He would drive back and forth from North Carolina, back to Virginia or something like South Carolina, North Carolina, one of the two. He would drive back and forth just 'cause he didn't live on the ship. But he would drive back and forth every day. Well, he was very helpful on training me, making sure that whatever, you know, whatever in the past happened don't happen again, 'cause that's what he used to always say. He's-- He let me be part-- like, I didn't even know where our office was, for the enginemen, like, we had our own office with TV's, couches, and I didn't even know that until him [laughs].
00:28:12SPRAGUE: Wow.
00:28:13JOHNSON: I wasn't a part of anything. I'm telling you, I wasn't part of anything until-- until he showed me all that. And I am like, "What?!" Yeah, I wasn't part of the division or the group at all, and there was only seven of us. Like, why wouldn't you keep me a part of it?
00:28:34SPRAGUE: You have a sense of if that was more of a gender thing or--
00:28:39JOHNSON: Yeah. I feel like that was a gender thing. I do. Yeah, I do. I do.
00:28:46SPRAGUE: Even in '08, '09, '10 and so on, did you-- did you get a lot of old sailors that were still not used to having women on the ship?
00:28:59JOHNSON: Oh, they-- they were used to us 'cause they-- everybody was sleeping with everybody. Clearly. I was too quiet. I wasn't running with the group. I mean, I made my friends and I would hang out. I would be off the ship as much as possible. I had a fiance and everything. He would come visit me 'cause he work for the airport. So he would come visit me every weekend. So I was with him all the time. So, yeah, I told him a lot about that. Like, I feel like it's very sexist. I told him a lot that. I'm like, I feel like I'm being mistreated and just thrown into a boiler room because I'm a girl. I'm like, they're not using me to their best ability, and I used to tell him about that. Then it got to the point, my chief, he was the problem. It was my chief was the problem. My chief was the problem. He was the problem. He would just like, "Oh, just send her over here to do this" or like, he made me an errand boy, basically. He would make me an errand boy. Like, I didn't know when I had watches, like, when I was supposed to be on watch. Like--
00:30:20SPRAGUE: What?! [Laughs]
00:30:21JOHNSON: It was crazy. Like, I'm getting in trouble for shit that I didn't even know I was part of [laughs].
00:30:27SPRAGUE: Not being informed of a watch you're going to serve? Come on!
00:30:30JOHNSON: Yeah. So, I would randomly be on watch, and I'm like, "Oh, okay," like-- Or sometimes I would end up being on somebody else's watch 'cause I didn't know if I had watch or not. And so they took advantage of that shit [laughs]. I'm like, it was very unorganized when it came to me. I could tell you that much, I didn't feel like I was being utilized. But um, when that-- that first class-- when the first class petty officer came, when he came, he stopped all of that stuff. He was very helpful. I was able to draw out the map, like, my version of it and then he was like, okay, now this is how you helped yourself. Now, he put that up. That was on the ship, too. He put that up. So, anybody coming down there, they would know where to go, what to do, 'cause I drew myself like, little notes on there. Drew in a row, what the valve would look like, what color it was, and like, I drew it very detailed. I'm not the best drawer, but I drew that very detailed. So, he actually made a copy of it, put it up on there. So, when you walk in there, you can grab it and you can walk around and see what you're looking at. So, he used that. So, I was able to be a part of the team enough to bring something to the table. But I didn't get the last moment with him 'cause I eventually had to get discharged. I had an event that made me go into the psych ward, and then I ended up being discharged. I have honorable discharge, though. But--
00:32:21SPRAGUE: Okay. So, if you can walk me through a couple of your cruises before you were discharged, like, for maybe like, you entered the service, you got on board ship probably in '08, would be my guess, thereabouts? When was your first cruise? And tell me a little bit about that, 'cause you listed Japan, Florida, Israel. You listed a bunch of places.
00:32:46JOHNSON: Yeah, well, I didn't get to get off [laughs].
00:32:49SPRAGUE: What?
00:32:50JOHNSON: 'Cause-- Because I didn't know anything about my watch! And I ended up having-- somebody took advantage me not knowing that I didn't have watch. And they was like, "oh, you got watch." And I'm like, "Oh, okay, what am I supposed to do?" This, this, this, they'll tell me what I need to do. And then that's it. So I'm like, okay. And they got to enjoy that. But yeah, I did not get to get off in Japan. I did not get to get off-- The only time I got to get off was when we went to Yorktown and somewhere in Florida. We were somewhere in Florida. But we did-- my first cruise was-- It was a lot of drills, a lot of drill running every day. But I spent most of the cruise in the boiler. [Laughs]
00:33:38SPRAGUE: What-- Wow, I have a hard time imagining what that's like. I mean--
00:33:45JOHNSON: When I did get off, I did get the chance to, um-- I went to a bar. I went to a club with, like, a couple groups. A group of people. Um, I can't remember what country that was, though. I don't remember where we were. I know in Yorktown. Yeah, Yorktown. That was-- we were only there for a day? Two days? I don't know. It was mainly in the water. We was mainly just in the water. And running drills. A lot of people started to become claustrophobic or something, I don't know. But it was like, a lot of tit-for-tats [laughs] after that. [Laughs] But I was in the boiler room [laughs], so when I came up for air, I would come up to eat. And then I would see people, you know, I'll see everybody. Then they like, "Where you been?" I'm like, "In the boiler room [laughs] where I'm going to go back." So, I've always been like, a loner, though. I've always been a loner. I was okay with being a loner, but then it started getting like, okay, this is what military life is going to be. But like I said, that one day it took them to come down when they was runnin' the drill. And I was like, "Oh, okay." So [laughs].
00:35:09SPRAGUE: Did-- I've got to ask. So, any of your cruises, maybe while you were in OS, experiences like in '09 in the Mediterranean or Persian Gulf, anything you remember?
00:35:26JOHNSON: I have to look at a map right now to see where where we were [laughs]. We were-- I can't remember which ocean that is over there. But that's where we were.
00:35:38SPRAGUE: Atlantic, maybe?
00:35:40JOHNSON: Is that the Atlantic Ocean over that way?
00:35:43SPRAGUE: Depending on where you were. Yeah. Or the Mediterranean or the Gulf or the Red Sea, maybe.
00:35:51JOHNSON: Uh, I'll have to look at a map to tell you that. Well, like I say, I was mainly-- I was looking at just a black screen with little-- it looked like a Pac-Man [Sprague laughs.] That's what it looked like. The screen looked like a Pac-Man to me. The Pac-Man game. That's all. That's what it looked like to me. I didn't last in there long, at all. I was there for a few months then I had to leave that. I couldn't take that no more. I liked the action that I was doing, like being part of the fire squad and knowing stuff about my boiler room now. Like, it was different boiler room, you know, different engine rooms that I got to go explore. I chose-- I ended up making mine own schedule 'cause I ended up choosing where, which one, I wanted to go to that day, out of those like, three or four we had. I was like, I'll go to this one today. Or, I'll go to that one today. It was like, I didn't exist to my command, so. To my division. So, I just like, was making my own stuff to do.
00:37:04SPRAGUE: What-- what would be a typical day that you wrote up for yourself? What would it include? What would that be like? You know what I mean? Like things you do in the course of your work?
00:37:17JOHNSON: Um. I would do breakfast. Then I would have a book, a couple movies to watch. I would have a exercise plan. I'll draw up what I'm looking at so I know what to do, when to do it. Once I had that all drawn up. But it took me several times to get that 'cause I'm not the best artist, so it took a lot of that. Knowing what each thing in there did was a lot. That took up most of my time. It was me learning something every day, and that's what kept me going 'cause I learned something every day about a different piece in there. In each room. That's what kept me going.
00:38:07SPRAGUE: And when you came back to the engine room, or engine rooms, plural, was it the potable water only that were you focused on or more stuff, other things?
00:38:19JOHNSON: That was considered my job, was the potable water thing, but it's also I was doing other stuff like--
00:38:26SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:38:27JOHNSON: Yeah [laughs].
00:38:30SPRAGUE: Understood. Got it. Um--
00:38:33JOHNSON: My service was more just "go away" type of treatment. Especially after I ended up going to the ward after everything happened. It was really more dismissal of me. So, anyway, don't want to talk about that. [Laughs]
00:38:54SPRAGUE: Okay. Got it.
00:38:56JOHNSON: I got to talk about that [inaudible] already with my therapist.
00:39:00SPRAGUE: Yep. So that's got to be a different experience. And the reason why I'm asking about it is in terms of serving in the ship versus on top or out where-- out in the open. What-- I mean, can you comment on that at all? What that would be like? I have no idea. I'm an Army guy. I have no idea what it's like to not see things out. You know what I mean?
00:39:29JOHNSON: Yeah. In broad daylight?
00:39:30SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:39:32JOHNSON: I would go out. I would go out at night, you know, or when it's turning evening time before it gets too dark. I would go up and look at the water. We had dolphins swimming next to us sometimes. I got to see a whale before. So I would go up there and get some fresh air, of course.
00:39:52SPRAGUE: Uh-huh.
00:39:53JOHNSON: And just look at that. And then I know at night you can only see stars. You can't see nothing else. Especially when we turn off our lights on the ship. It's completely like you're closing your eyes. It's dark. Like, close your eyes dark. It's dark. Like your pupils can't even dilate to see what's going on, 'cause it was that dark out there in the middle of the water. You know, sometimes you have some moonlight, sometimes, and sometimes you'll have some starlight. Other than that, it's just pure dark.
00:40:28SPRAGUE: Wow. So, you mentioned a couple of things during your pre-interview. Tell me about some of those-- the wild animals. You mentioned dolphins? Other animals?
00:40:39JOHNSON: Oh, yeah. Yeah, we had dolphins swimming next to us a few times. One particular time, um-- one of the guys in my division came into the boiler room to get me 'cause he was excited for me to see the dolphins. And he pulled me up there and I got up there and I seen the dolphins and we had-- we had just dropped our anchor and everything. And we were apparently-- we were going to sit there and do drills, apparently. So, and the dolphins just came up by us and stuff. So everybody was jumping in the ocean, like, and swimming, and having fun. I was like, oh, I'm going too! [Laughs] So I got to pet a wild dolphin.
00:41:25SPRAGUE: Wow!
00:41:26JOHNSON: And they-- [inaudible] these aren't trained? They act like they were trained, like they know humans or something.
00:41:34SPRAGUE: Wow. That must have been an incredible experience.
00:41:38JOHNSON: Yes, that was. I tell my daughter about that story. Like, I pet wild dolphins [laughs].
00:41:49SPRAGUE: You mentioned also during your pre-interview that you had some secret Marine team or something? Tell me about that.
00:41:56JOHNSON: Oh, yeah. These guys, they landed on our-- Landed next to-- landed on us. We had a carrier that was, like, not too far from us too, but they landed on us from a smaller, like, helicopter little thing. They were like, some secret team. I don't know. I seen them around a couple times and then, some of our-- who was that-- those guys? The-- not our-- no, what are they called? Oh, my God. My little brother is with them. I can't think of it right now. [Pause] Navy SEALs! Or SEALs. Some-- some SEALs ended up being on our ship with them, too. So it was a Marine, it was the Marines, and some SEALs, Navy SEALs on there. I just happened to see them and they were doing some weird stuff. They had this big old machine on. I didn't even know what it was, but they had a big machine with them that was on the ship. I don't know. It's kind of cool. It was kind of cool. And again, I was back in the boiler room, so I didn't get to see much. But I got to see them and meet a couple of them.
00:43:19SPRAGUE: Did you have any-- while you were on that engineering team, any fires on the ship? Like live fire, like things cookin' off?
00:43:29JOHNSON: Not live. No-- no live fires. No live fires. So, except for the ones that we made. But that don't count [Sprague laughs]. That don't count. 'Cause they were controlled fires. But that was part of drills. That was-- that was controlled fire. That was a fake fire. That was not-- No, I don't count that [laughs].
00:43:53SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:43:56JOHNSON: Not some fire that happened because we messed up or something happened [Sprague laughs]. The only thing-- the only thing that happened because I messed up was the water bursting through the walls and the pipes bursting and people getting pissed off at me. I had people mad at me for weeks because of that. So. Yeah. No showers, no clean water, no-- Yeah. A long time. 'Cause I messed up [laughs].
00:44:28SPRAGUE: How does this-- Just a dumb question. How does the saltwater from the outside of the ship get into the ship? Is there like, an intake or a valve?
00:44:40JOHNSON: Yeah. We did. Yeah, we had an intake and we had the whole little cleaning system. We had the whole system going. And I messed up 'cause [laughs] I didn't open one valve [laughs]. Oh, man, that was horrible! We had water all the way up to like, my calf in the ship because I did that. And then some places flooded, all the way flooded. Oh, it was messed up, I messed up so bad [laughs]. And it was like that for hours, too. And I was looking. I kept going to look back at the-- at the-- Oh, man, it was a little-- Oh. What was that thing called? It was like a little meter thing, and I was waiting, I'm like, it ain't moved! It hasn't moved! I'm waiting on it to move so I can turn the valve! And it hasn't moved. I noticed it was started shaking, and I was like, huh? Then all of a sudden I'm getting yelled at through the ship on the PDA thing. Like, "Get your ass up here! Right--" I'm like, oh, shit [laughs]! I'm like, what happened? Then when they said that this happened, this happened, "now we're standing in the water." And I was like, you know, I rose my hand. I was like, "Yeah, I think that was me. I don't know." And then I asked them to check each one of the valves. I was like, "I think I did this, this, this and this. And I think that"-- and he was like, "You didn't open this!" And that's when they-- yeah, people were mad at me for a long time. But again, that was my first time down there. We talked-- I was told in less than a couple minutes on what to do and I'm like--
00:46:25SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:46:26JOHNSON: Okay, I think I got it, and then left alone for hours [laughs].
00:46:32SPRAGUE: Yeah, it sounds like bad training to me.
00:46:35JOHNSON: It was. It was. It was. It was very sexist. Very sexist. So I was like, "Damn it, if I wouldn't have turned turn nothing, I should have just left it alone." But he said, "This time, turn it, da-da-da-da-da." I said, "Okay. So you want me do it?" And he left. I was like, what the fuck?! [Laughs] And then he left me for hours. Like I said, I was [laughs] I had people mad at me for weeks about that. Geez. I mean, I was mad, too, but I was like, well, it's y'all training. But it was called, "take accountability, Johnson, you did it." So I'm like, "okay, you're right. I did it." So. Which I did, but it was also because y'all didn't train me. But okay, I did it, but I didn't do it. So. [Laughs]
00:47:28SPRAGUE: How about-- I've got to ask. I've heard rumors of this. What was the food like on ship?
00:47:34JOHNSON: Oh, our food was good [laughs]. Our food was good [laughs]. We used to catch our own crab and fish sometimes too. So that would be nice when we used to do that. Now, that was fun. To watch the cook people and some of the other people. I don't know who the other people were, other teams, but they would go out there and have big old nets and do all type of stuff. And I'm like-- it looked cool, though. We catch our own food sometimes. Sometimes. But that was cool. The food was good to me.
00:48:15SPRAGUE: Ah.
00:48:17JOHNSON: I mean, coming from a single father. So, coming from a single father who cooked-- who boiled chicken and burgers and give you canned vegetables. And who was a diabetic. The food was fine [laughs].
00:48:41SPRAGUE: Yeah. How about, you know, thinking back on it, and good memories while you were on that ship. What people do you think back to, and you're like, they were memorable, I like that person, or stuff like that?
00:48:57JOHNSON: Oh. Um. M-9, who is dead now. He hung himself. But M-9, Chase, and Tiffany Young. Yep. From my ship. They're my favorite people. And I still talk to them. Yeah. That's who I went out there in California to see. They're my favorite people from the ship.
00:49:26SPRAGUE: Wow. And this is a number of years later. Wow.
00:49:32JOHNSON: Yep, yep, yep. And then I have my favorite people from when I was in boot camp and my favorite people from when I was just in Virginia, when we was-- I was going to school in Virginia, too. Before I got on my ship.
00:49:49SPRAGUE: What were you going to school for there, if you don't mind me asking?
00:49:53JOHNSON: It was for the-- I think that was my-- is that my A school? Or, I think it was C school and A school. The food there was good too. I was on the base in Virginia. Norfolk, Virginia. That was fun, being there. I started my own little yoga class too. That's when I first got into yoga too, when I was stationed there.
00:50:17SPRAGUE: And forgive me for not asking earlier, with the ship you were on, DDG-95. Were you stationed out of Norfolk?
00:50:30JOHNSON: James E. Williams. DDG-95. Yeah.
00:50:34SPRAGUE: Yep. James E. Williams. Sorry. Were you--
00:50:37JOHNSON: [Inaudible] now.
00:50:39SPRAGUE: Okay. Were you out of-- out of Norfolk or were you out of somewhere else? Where were you based off of?
00:50:45JOHNSON: I was out of Norfolk. Yeah.
00:50:49SPRAGUE: Okay. So how does that work?
00:50:50JOHNSON: I was living on the base before I lived on the ship. I was living on base. And I was doing some schooling stuff or whatever or transitioning. Whatever I was doing. And then once I got out of there, which I still have a friend, two friends from there. Um. Yeah. I have two friends from that school. That's when I started my yoga too. I was walking-- that field will always be empty. So I started doing yoga in that field and people started coming over thinking I was part of some yoga course or something 'cause I was always there at the same time doing yoga. And people started coming with yoga stuff and started doing yoga with me on that field at the same time. And I did that for a few months, actually, before I got on my ship. I don't remember half the stuff I was doing in there. I know I couldn't wait for the weekend 'cause that's when my fiancé would come [laughs].
00:52:04SPRAGUE: So, yeah, that leads to my next question is, yeah, what did you do in your downtime?
00:52:10JOHNSON: Um, well, I was always hanging out on base. We had the movie theater, bowling alley. Yeah. I hung out with my roommates a couple of times. I didn't really like them so much, but I hung out with them a couple times. They just drink too much. They were young and drink too much. Too many guys in and out of our room. I didn't do much. I hung out with some of the people that I knew from boot camp and from A school, or C school. My fiancé, his grandmother, she lived in Newport News, which is like, maybe an hour away, maybe. I would go to her, hang out with her. Take care of her [laughs]. And then I would come back to the base. I would find something to do. I always found something to do.
00:53:24SPRAGUE: Are there any experiences aboard the James Williams that you'd like to share? Any other things that you'd like to share about that or--?
00:53:38JOHNSON: Uh, I remember the-- the area where it would so-called be our gym area, how hard the ground was, how I got-- I used to always scrape my knees. People used to be always sleeping in there [laughs]. It was one of those areas where people just sleep, where they only had cell phone reception over there 'cause that's when we had flip phones and that's when the Sidekick was coming out. And you know, that's when that was coming out, so everybody was trying to use they phones over there. That's it.
00:54:17SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:54:18JOHNSON: No, nothing too good. I told you, this not going to be a long one.
00:54:21SPRAGUE: Yeah, no worries. I'm not worried about it. So, tell me about-- Tell me about-- You already mentioned a little bit about it. Tell me about getting out and moving on. Leaving the military.
00:54:36JOHNSON: Uh. The [inaudible] that happened that led me to be in a ward and then from the ward, I went back to the ship. I was secluded back to the boiler room. And then, um, and then I got discharged. Then I came home and was dealing with some things. I broke up with my fiancé. Well, my fiancé broke up with me. I-- I started working a security job. I was riding motorcycles, I was clubbing, riding motorcycles and, um, taking care of my nephew, um, and my niece. Then I ended up having another niece. My brother had kids after that, so I was with them all the time. I didn't identify as a veteran. I didn't feel like my service was anything because I was really in a boiler room. That's how I feel about my service. It was mainly a boiler room. So I didn't feel like I was considered a veteran. I didn't feel like I served or did anything special because of that. Um. I don't know, uh, plus I mean, I tried to go to therapy here after serving in the military because of the events that happened in the military. And then I was-- I feel like I was, um-- not victimized. But what is that called? I don't know, but I tried to do a bunch of stuff that made me not want to identify with the military. I was trying to identify, my daddy kept telling me identify, but my dad, I'm like, "Dad, you don't even identify." My dad doesn't even do anything with the VA. Nothing. He doesn't identify either. Because his-- his stuff was different and-- yeah.
00:57:23SPRAGUE: Do you think-- Did you-- Did you shift ever towards identifying as a veteran? And when did that happen, if it did?
00:57:35JOHNSON: Um, well, I had went for my benefits because my dad was like, "At least get your benefits." But I still didn't identify. I would just do my stuff for the benefits. But that was it. I still didn't identify. Then I had a hard time getting my benefits too. So I'm like, I had to fight that for like two years, three years. [Inaudible] get help to pay for school. So, I'm like, okay. But eventually I started to identify when I actually stepped foot into MAVRC [Military and Veterans Resource Center]. Jane was there. And Tanner, who I'm still friends with. He was at the front desk. He's a cop now for Greenfield. But he was one of the first students that was sitting at the desk, one of the working students. He was sitting there at the desk and Jane was there. And I was like, oh, this is somewhere I can come study and it's quiet in here. There's not too many people in here. But then I noticed at a certain time, an hour, it was full of white men. I was like, oh, I do not fit in. I need to leave. And Jane was like, "No, have a seat. You are a part. You are a veteran. You're here. They will respect you." She changed a lot to make them respect me in there. And then a lot of the guys were very cool, and I didn't expect that. Like, it got to the point where we started our own little daycare in there, we were like, watching each other's kids while the other one go to class. I'm still friends with Sam. Sam Rogers from there. That's my homeboy. Like, and his three girls, you know? It's like, you know, I'm-- Evan, you know, those guys. Those guys are-- they all white men [laughs]. You know? And it was-- It was-- it opened up my eyes and they even said the same thing. Sean was like, "Hey," he was like, "if we can get more veterans in here that look like you, maybe veterans will want to call us inclusive." And I was like, "Yeah," 'cause at first when I came in here, I was like, "No, this is not for me." He was like, "Exactly. But you stayed and you got to know us and we got to know you." And when he said that, that's when a lot of other minority women started coming in. And 'cause I started inviting minority women, you know, into the MAVRC and then a lot of minority women really was coming in here and it became very inclusive. So I was like, "okay, you know," like they're talking about their different stories. And one of the guys, he was like, "Yeah, I was just a painter." He was like, "I was just painting." And he was like, "I feel like I was pushed aside and all I did was paint." And so when he said that then, I was like, "So I'm not the only one?" So that's what made me want to really start identifying, like talking about me being a veteran, was being in MAVRC [laughs]. Now I met you [laughs]!
01:00:56SPRAGUE: Yup, exactly. And I met you through Yolanda Medina and "I Am Not Invisible" from three years ago that started out.
01:01:05JOHNSON: Yeah. So, Jane was the Yolanda.
01:01:08SPRAGUE: Okay, my bad. Okay. Yeah. Jane. Okay. Got it.
01:01:11JOHNSON: Jane was the Yolanda.
01:01:13SPRAGUE: Yep. Nice. So what-- I mean, tell me about being a woman of color, being a veteran. Tell me about representing. You talked about that during your pre-interview.
01:01:25JOHNSON: Um, so. It's just the whole stereotype around women period. And then on top of that, being a minority woman serve in the military. It's like-- It is very sexist. There's always trauma around it because a lot of women have been-- they have had events similar to mine, um, sexual assaults and stuff like that. So, we don't want to identify. When you first think of a veteran, you always think of a white male. You don't always think of who else was there, who else served. There was minority men, there was minority female. There were white females. You know, so, some people don't think about that right away. So I started wanting to break down the stereotype of a veteran being just a white male. So that-- and it's crazy because that came from a white male [laugh]. When he brought that to my attention, when he said--his name was Sean--he was like, "we need more people in here that look like you that want to identify as veterans." And when he said that to me, I was like, it resonated with me. And that's what get me involved in the SVA. Student Veterans of America, I became the PR, the public relations officer, and then, you know, and I got voted for. I didn't want to run, but everybody in there was like, "No, you need to run for that." And I ended up winning by like 97% [laughs]. I won. And I was like, "Oh my God!" And it was like, I can't believe all these guys actually voted for me to do this. And they're like, "Yeah, because we respect you. We respect what you're doing. We respect what you're going for. We know what you're doing." So. That's what made me, was like, okay, I think I can change my perception about being a woman veteran. And a minority woman veteran. And like I said, that's when a lot of women started really identifying, when they was like, "Wait, you going in there?" And then I go in there with my daughter, a toddler. They're like, "Wait, we can do that? I can go in there?" And then, eventually, the LGBTQ community had veterans. There was a transgender veteran that was like, "I can't go in there." I'm like, "Yes, you can. Come on, come in here with me." And they start going in there. He is now she, who identifies as they now. So they go-- they go in there, or was going in there and was welcomed. You know, some of the guys, they did pull a little stunt. They were being assholes a couple of times. But it's-- you got to get off-- It's just about educating them. Like no, we are all service. Not all servicemen look like you, you know. So. That's what I-- that's what made me want to start, 'cause I noticed that there was other people that [cell phone vibration] wanted to identify but couldn't identify. And felt that they would have been excluded 'cause they don't look like the normal white male. So, I was breaking down-- breaking down those barriers. I'm like, hey, I might be one woman, but I actually do have an army behind me and they are white male and they are willing to do this with me [laughs]. So, yeah, I got a few guys that I'm still friends with that highly respect me. We talk stuff every day [laughs].
01:05:27SPRAGUE: When you were talking about SVA, you were talking about Student Veterans Association, or is that a different--?
01:05:34JOHNSON: Yeah.
01:05:34SPRAGUE: And that's at UW-Milwaukee?
01:05:36JOHNSON: Yep.
01:05:38SPRAGUE: Okay, cool. So over time, and I-- the reason why I'm asking about this is 'cause I've experienced things like this, too. But I'm curious, what were your-- do you-- have your thoughts changed over the years, like when Veterans Day comes around? Do-- how do you treat that?
01:06:03JOHNSON: Um. I don't like the whole "thank you for your service" thing. I don't like that. But-- 'Cause I don't want to be thanked for my service. It's like, I did this for me. I did this for other people that look like me. You know? So-- because I'm like, I got to break the curse of my daddy not wanting to identify as a veteran even though he served. You know, as a Vietnam veteran. But, you know, there was a lot of racism around that. So, my dad doesn't want to identify. He doesn't-- he doesn't have really good stories either. So, I don't like being thanked for my service 'cause I'm like, I didn't do it for you. I did it for me [laughs], and I did it for my dad, you know? And I did it for other veterans. Minority veterans. To show you that basically veterans don't have to only look like a white male. So, yeah. So, when veterans, they come around, I do wear it proudly. I just-- I don't carry it arrogantly. Like, I don't like-- I feel like you thanking me is like, arrogance. It's like, "Yeah, you better thank me." Like, no [laughs] I don't know. I don't know. I don't want to carry around arrogance. Like my-- like my ROTC teacher. He didn't carry himself with arrogance. He carried himself with respect and honor and he did it for people. He's like, a lover of people, you know. And even though he was a white male, but he had a love for people. So that's kind of like, I want that persona. Like, he in here [laughs].
01:08:07SPRAGUE: Uh-huh. How do you think-- I'm just curious, 'cause I've heard this from a number of veterans, what you've-- what you've said. How--
01:08:18JOHNSON: Do you?
01:08:18SPRAGUE: --and this is kind-- Yeah, I have actually, from a number of 'em, saying a similar thing, that they're uncomfortable with being thanked for their service. Yup. Yes, absolutely [Johnson laughs]. So then my question to you is this. Okay. So a little bit of the reverse. What-- if somebody-- like, someone who's not a veteran comes up to you on Veterans Day. How could they express their gratitude to you or respect to you for your service?
01:08:50JOHNSON: Oh, I'm not rude about it. I'm not rude. I'm just telling you, like, you know, I don't like to be thanked for it, you know?
01:08:58SPRAGUE: Yeah.
01:08:59JOHNSON: Um, 'cause I've had people date me only because I'm a veteran. Like, that makes me qualified as a Black woman 'cause, "oh, you served the country, so you're dateable. You're a dateable Black girl 'cause you served the country." I'm like, what the fuck? So, yeah, I don't know, that-- that's kind of like why I don't want to carry with arrogance. I'm carrying 'cause I'm trying to show people, like, no, veterans also look like me.
01:09:22SPRAGUE: Yeah. [Johnson laughs] Yeah. Okay.
01:09:25JOHNSON: I'm just a regular person. I'm not rude about it. I just say, thank you.
01:09:30SPRAGUE: Yeah.
01:09:32JOHNSON: And that's it. Now, keep it moving.
01:09:35SPRAGUE: Yeah, I hear you. So, what are you-- Do you have any involvement with different veterans organizations other than MAVRC? Any mentoringships out there? Any kind of thing where you're working at with-- You know what I mean?
01:09:54JOHNSON: Um, no, just-- I just started getting through the WoVeN [Women Veterans Network]. Was that WoVeN? Is it called WoVeN? WoVeN, the women's--
01:10:03SPRAGUE: You got me.
01:10:04JOHNSON: It's like "I Am Not Invisible". It's a-- it's a-- it's with them [laughs].
01:10:08SPRAGUE: Okay.
01:10:09JOHNSON: The women veterans. I just got involved with them.
01:10:16SPRAGUE: Okay.
01:10:17JOHNSON: After the I'm Not Invisible movement that, yeah, because Yolanda, Yolanda made sure that I'm involved with a lot of stuff too. And I can appreciate that.
01:10:31SPRAGUE: Okay.
01:10:35JOHNSON: She's really about, like, showing women and minority women like, we exist in the veteran world too, and I respect that so much about that woman [laughs].
01:10:52SPRAGUE: Yep. Okay.
01:10:53JOHNSON: [Inaudible] period.
01:10:56SPRAGUE: Do you find yourself mentoring others? People around you?
01:11:04JOHNSON: What do you mean?
01:11:06SPRAGUE: From your experience in the Navy and bringing that to the fore and going, this is what my experience showed me, and this is how I deal with that.
01:11:18JOHNSON: Um, well, I work in mental health, so I talk about it a little bit there with my clients. And also, you know, in the prison. I use that. I use a lot what I learn in there, the way to carry myself and how to address people. I use that in the prison as well. So. Because some service men are in prison as well. Um, so, yeah.
01:11:52SPRAGUE: You want to talk--
01:11:53JOHNSON: [Inaudible] in prison.
01:11:54SPRAGUE: --do you want to talk at all about what you're doing on the civilian side now and your career at all?
01:12:01JOHNSON: No, not really. I mean, I can just a little bit. I mean, I was an officer and then I transferred over to being a financial specialist in the prison so that I can teach financial literacy to inmates so that they don't come back [laughs]. You know, just helping the community. That's all that really matters to me, is helping my community. That's why I work in mental health as well. You know, a lot of people of color don't know the resources out here for mental health. They think it's a-- It's a-- it's a-- don't want to be rude, but they think it's a "white people go to therapy" thing, and it's like, "No, you can go to therapy too. It's here for you too," you know? So, try to help people in the community. Build awareness. I don't know. I'm trying to stop all the curses [Sprague laughs]. You know. I mean, all the-- all the minority curses, all the, you know, I don't know, the trauma curses. I'm trying to stop them. Trying to stop 'em. You know. At least within myself and within my family and people around me. Where I can do it. So, yeah, I guess that's as much as I'll give you about what I do for work. [Laughs]
01:13:28SPRAGUE: Okay, that's great. That's a very-- Thank you. So, if you hadn't served in the military, where do you think your life would be right now? What do you think? If you could guess.
01:13:45JOHNSON: Uh, I would have finished my masters by now. I was going to go to college regardless. My daddy wasn't going to have that. I was going to go to college regardless. Um. I wouldn't have my kid. I wouldn't have-- I wouldn't have had kids. Having her-- When I came home, I had to have her to help me be normal. That's-- I feel like that was part of me being normal and being part of society. So, I wouldn't have had kids. I would probably be, which I still do, traveling, traveling the world. I wouldn't be-- I would have went to college, though, but I wouldn't be in one spot. I know me. I wouldn't have been in one spot. [Laughs] It taught me a lot of-- what's that? Structure. I still would have went to college, though, I would have, but it taught me structure. Actually, ROTC is where it started, where I wanted-- I wanted that structure. So, I mean, I had that from home, too, but-- it's the way he carried himself. I just wanted that structure, that respect, that persona. I was like, "I want that." So, I probably wouldn't have it. I mean, I would have enough structure where I would have went to college, finished college, got a good job, and be traveling, but I wouldn't have been in one spot. I wouldn't have had kids. Um. I would have been selfish [laughs], but I also wouldn't have the trauma I have, either. So, it's some good things and some bad things if I would have never went to the military. So. Got some good things. Got some bad things.
01:15:51SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview?
01:15:54JOHNSON: You! [Both laugh] And like I said, I just want to be one of the-- probably-- I'm probably one of your youngest interviewers. So I'm like, not all veterans are old. So. [Laughs]
01:16:14SPRAGUE: I hate to break it to you. We may have some interviewers who are younger than you.
01:16:21JOHNSON: Oh! See?
01:16:21SPRAGUE: Yes, ma'am.
01:16:22JOHNSON: that's why I'm like, I want to-- I'm like, I got to represent for the-- at least the younger middle-aged people.
01:16:28SPRAGUE: Yup. Yup. No. Yeah. You're good. It's-- Yeah, but I think we might have you beat [laughs].
01:16:33JOHNSON: Well, good. See? I didn't know that. So, I was like-- Every time you see a veteran, it's always an older, older person. You know, when I walk through the VA, I'm like, I'm always getting eyes on me, like, oh, lord. Here we go with the ageism. [Sprague laughs] And I'm like, everybody elder here. Well, it was crazy when I was in a wheelchair, walking-- getting pushed through the VA. They're like, "what happened to her? She's so young!" I mean, I heard somebody say that, too, actually. I'm like, "I got my damn appendix removed" [Sprague laughs]! But you know, this is the point. Like, it was like, wow, for them to say that, like, "Oh, my God, what happened to her, she's so young!" I'm like, "I'm right here. I heard that" [Sprague laughs]. Well, anyway, yeah, my motivation came from, you know, just speaking upon the young and the middle age, and minority women. Plus I liked you and your wife [laughs]. At the table with me [laughs].
01:17:37SPRAGUE: Yeah, no biggie.
01:17:38JOHNSON: It's a great opportunity. You know, you were saying, like you're out there in the museum, and it was a great opportunity to show, you know, be a part of something bigger, and like, you know, this is considered my platform that I can use to keep showing and keep showing up for minorities, veteran women. Like, this is my-- I'm using this platform for that. So, yeah, that's my motivation too.
01:18:02SPRAGUE: Cool. Yep. So, did-- did I miss anything that you'd like to cover?
01:18:08JOHNSON: I don't know. I don't think so. I just got some good things and some bad things, you know, from if I would have went or I wouldn't have went, you know. Um-- But I'm still using, like I said, I'm using my platform, to show up for people in my community and show them, you know, I'm carrying a respect with me and a persona about me, that's a respectful persona, you know. So. I don't know. That's my summary.
01:18:50SPRAGUE: Okay. Well, on that note, we're going to conclude the interview, if that's okay with you.
01:18:57JOHNSON: Yep.
01:18:58SPRAGUE: Okay. So this concludes the interview.
