Oral History Interview with Ashley Smits

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is March 31st, 2023. This is an interview with Ashley Smits, who served in the United States Air Force from August 16th, 2005 to January 6th, 2014. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Manitowoc Public Library for the I Am Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the interview room. Okay, Ashley, first of all, a little bit. Where did you grow up?

SMITS: I grew up in Suamico, Wisconsin.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what did your family do?

SMITS: So my dad worked at a factory, a paper factory, and my mom worked -- a little bit different, but she, mostly like as a receptionist at hospitals.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what schools did you attend?

SMITS: I graduated from Bayport High School in 2005.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And if you could, what motivated you to join the military?

SMITS: A lot of it was really 9/11. You know, I was a freshman when 9/11 happened. I watched it live, happened on TV. From there, my older brother joined the Army National Guard. And then really, I wanted to follow in his footsteps and I wanted to serve my country. And he, having gone that Army route, he really pushed me to join the Air Force instead, for the better quality of life.

SPRAGUE: Okay. A couple of things. Uh, curious. Where were you? Literally, 9/11 happened. What were you doing? Yeah.

SMITS: So I was a freshman. I was in school. I was in a fashion and interior design class. We were working on sewing projects and we had TVs in all of our classrooms. And so we literally had the TV on, um, you know, while we were working on these projects. And so we just, we saw it all unfold throughout the, 00:02:00you know, throughout the day on the TVs. They kept us in school and then we pretty much just watched the news that whole day.

SPRAGUE: That must have been a pretty intense experience.

SMITS: Yeah, I think, you know, I think, you know, being a freshman, I think you're still naive of what was really happening. Um, you know, when the first plane hit, you know, everybody's in shock and, you know, was it a mistake? And then when the second plane hit and then, you know, the Pentagon and when it went down in Pennsylvania, and then you're like, okay, this is real. And already having in the back of your mind, you know, kind of even that the military was a possibility, that just solidified it to say, you know, I don't want this to ever happen again on home territory. Mm hmm.

SPRAGUE: You said your brother, he had mentioned the advantages of being in the Air Force versus the Army. Would you kindly share those, [Smits laughing] what 00:03:00those might be? I'm just curious.

SMITS: Well, I mean, obviously, you know, the treatment is better. The basic training is shorter. Just the living quarters is better. He just thought it would be better opportunities for me, especially since I was going to active duty. He was National Guard. So his only active duty time was really his basic training, his AIT [Advanced Individual Training], and then his deployments. But, you know, he just wanted the best for me. And he thought that the Air Force would serve that.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. But you chose an active duty tour.

SMITS: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Any particular -- versus a National Guard enlistment.

SMITS: Yeah, I think I just, that's what I wanted to do full-time. I think I just didn't know what else I wanted to do. I just wanted to get away, start fresh, um, and [pauses] just full-time. You know, I remember in basic training, 00:04:00they had asked us, they kind of went around the room and asked like why everybody had joined. And I would say probably like 75% of people joined for like the education benefits. And my sole reason for joining was patriotism, because I love my country. So I just wanted to do that full-time.

SPRAGUE: Do you have any family other than your brother, uh, and relatives that served?

SMITS: Yeah. So I have a cousin who is younger than me that I actually got her to join the Air Force as well. And then I have a couple uncles that were in the military, and then my grandpa was also in the Air Force.

SPRAGUE: Uh, would you mind sharing their names with us?

SMITS: Yeah. So my brother is Jason Smits, and then my uncle is Jerry Smits. And then I have another uncle who was married into the family, Bob Lauer. And then my grandpa is Jerome [Toos??].

SPRAGUE: Okay. So tell me a little bit about your arrival at basic training and 00:05:00what that was like.

SMITS: [Laughs] So we had a very late arrival into San Antonio for my basic training and, um, -- kind of true Air Force fashion, because we got in so late, it was very early in the morning when we got in, we were thinking they were going to wake us up, you know, at like the 4 or 5 a.m., and they actually let us sleep in. So they didn't wake us up until about 11 a.m. [laughs] just in time to go to lunch. So, uh, it was kind of that first moment at basic training that I realized I probably made the right decision and [laughs] they were treating us good already.

SPRAGUE: What were, uh, some of the experiences that stick out in your mind at a basic?

SMITS: Yeah, um -- I think just the, um, the instant team building, the camaraderie, working together with other people that you had no idea who they 00:06:00were or what their background was, um, people of all different religious backgrounds and, you know, different races. It didn't matter whether we were working, you know, with our own flights or with our brother flights. It was just, we all [sighs] came together for that one mission and to get trained. So I think that was a really cool experience for me to experience that, coming from a really small town in Wisconsin, to just experience that, that difference.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Were at that point in '05, were the genders segregated or were they together? How did that work in your flight?

SMITS: Yep. So we were about 60 females in my flight, so it was all females. And then we also had our brother flight, which was about 60 males. So, um, our dorms were right across from each other and we pretty much went and did everything together.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm.

SMITS: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: And how many drill instructors or training instructors does the Air Force have, usually per flight?

SMITS: So each flight had one drill instructor, and then you generally had a higher ranking one who kind of oversaw both of them that would step in as needed. But there was only one -- drill instructor.

SPRAGUE: And that and that would have been for those 60, 60 women?

SMITS: Yes, Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay, okay. Um. Okay--

SMITS: I think, I think, uh, something else that stood out is I, um, I actually brought pictures with me. So the day that I left for basic training, my brother actually left to Iraq. And, um, so I brought pictures with me. And one of the pictures was, um, of my brother in uniform. And, you know, when you first get there, all the stuff that you brought with you, you had to lay it out on your bunk, on your bed. Um, and the drill instructor basically just went through everything and just tried to degrade you for everything that you brought. And 00:08:00when she came to me and she saw the pictures of my brother, she was like, "Oh, is this your boyfriend?" And I was like, like I completely, like, forgot everything. You know, you're supposed to say your training statements and your reporting statement and stuff. And I just blurted out, I was like, "No, that's my brother." And I just was like, "Oh, crap." Like, I'm going to get my butt reamed out for just saying that. And she actually, like, I think she understood and she just like, let it go. And she didn't even say anything to me. So I think that was another moment that, like, stood out to me too. Is that like, yeah, we were there and, um, you know, we still had the times where we were getting yelled at and we had to do push-ups and stuff. But she like also understood, like that was a soft spot for me and she didn't ream me out for it.

SPRAGUE: Um, what was, what was some of the training at basic that you liked?

SMITS: I think I liked, um, we had like our Beast Week. So it was a whole week that we were out in the field. We had the whole MREs [Meals Ready-to-Eat] and we 00:09:00went through the gas chamber and that's when we had our weapons training and all that. And I think that was like the real deal for me, the full military experience.

SPRAGUE: [Laughs] And, uh, did, uh, did any of your family come down for graduation? Or.

SMITS: Yep. So my mom, my dad came down for my graduation, and then also one of my friends from high school.

SPRAGUE: What was that like?

SMITS: Um, I think it was -- it was fun. I think the graduation itself, I felt very proud. And then we got town passes, so I got to spend some time with them down in San Antonio. And that was fun as well.

SPRAGUE: Uh-huh. Did you immediately go to Advanced Training, or the forces call it different things --

SMITS: Right.

SPRAGUE: Immediately following that?

SMITS: So in the Air Force, we call it like our tech school, and I actually had a little bit of a different experience because while I was in my third week of 00:10:00basic training, Hurricane Katrina hit. And because of that, I was supposed to do my tech training in Biloxi, Mississippi, at Keesler Air Force Base. But that's part of where Hurricane Katrina hit and pretty much all the permanent party that was stationed there, their homes were taken out and they were evacuated out. So they didn't have anywhere for us to go. And so I was held over at basic training for six weeks. Um, so for a while, it was just me and I would move from dorm to dorm wherever they had a spot for me, um, in a female flight, wherever they had a free bed. And then there came a point where there were more, as they call them, 'holdovers'. And so then we kind of were put into our own dorm, and we were just doing different details around base. I mean, we would go to CE [Civil Engineering] and we would answer phones or whatever they had us do. Um, that's what we were doing in the meantime until we finally got to actually go to our 00:11:00tech school.

SPRAGUE: That must have been a different experience [laughs].

SMITS: It was, yeah. We were actually -- we got to hang out in the TI [Training Instructor] lounge and the TIs would come in there. But, you know, we got to wear, um, -- when you were in basic training, you had to wear like a brown shirt under your BDU [Battle Dress Uniform] cover. And once we graduated, they allowed us to wear a black shirt. So then they knew that we had already graduated and the TIs didn't really mess with us. But yeah, it was six weeks there. And then once I finally got to my tech school at Biloxi, Mississippi, they had beds for us, but they still didn't have instructors. They were backlogged. So kind of the same thing there. Then we -- they called it, I believe it was AFI. So again, we were just doing different duties and details around the base. So we were cleaning up base housing. So we were actually going in base housing and we saw all the destruction and stuff from the hurricane. Um, people just literally left their homes with everything in it. And you saw the water that, you know, it was 00:12:00up, chest level high, still in the houses. Extreme Makeover Home Edition, [Sprague laughs] they had actually came to Biloxi, Mississippi, and we got to work with them. So we were helping them with the reconstruction that they were doing there as well. So it was some pretty cool experiences that I got to do, even though it was a tragic event that happened.

SPRAGUE: So yeah, that must have been really something different. You probably did not expect to be --

SMITS: No, definitely not.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. That was with Katrina.

SMITS: Correct.

SPRAGUE: And then at what point did you finally get to begin your advanced training?

SMITS: Yeah. So I actually went into the Air Force with a guaranteed job as an air traffic controller. So then I finally started my schooling. Um, it was six weeks that you did of fundamentals or bookwork, and then you kind of graduated that, and then you went into like a three-day instruction where they kind of taught you the lingo of air traffic control because I tell people it's almost 00:13:00like a foreign language. Um, and then straight from there, you went into simulators, which was supposed to be six weeks. During that time, I actually failed out, um, and then I had to go in front of my commander and I was given the opportunity to retrain, and then I went into -- at the time it was called Information Management. So that was a six-week course then, that I then attended still at Biloxi, Mississippi. And then I graduated from there. And then I went to my first duty station, which was Ramstein Air Base in Germany.

SPRAGUE: Okay, um. Did they pull your clearance while you were in advanced training or after that, later? How did that work? I assume you had, was there a particular clearance, security clearance you had to have or not?

SMITS: Well, with air traffic control, I was on flight status, so they pulled that.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

SMITS: But with my new position -- even though it was information management, I actually went more into IT [Information Technology] field. So my first duty station, I was doing computer helpdesk stuff and I did have a clearance. I actually had a top-secret clearance.

SPRAGUE: Uh-huh. Okay. Were you bothered or upset that you didn't get to be an air traffic controller or?

SMITS: Yeah, I think, you know, at the time I was disappointed in myself. Absolutely. I felt like I had failed. Um, [pauses] definitely disappointed in myself, but I kind of just looked at it, that, that was the path that I was supposed to go on. Um, and from so many people, I had heard that it was an extremely stressful job. And I think ultimately it was a blessing that it happened.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. So, uh, you get to Ramstein Air Base in Germany.

SMITS: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: And that's about, what, 2005?

SMITS: By that time, I was already in almost a year. So it was, um, July of 2006 at that point.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And, um, I read the occup- it's called, quote, unquote, client systems, are that?

SMITS: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So tell me, is that like a civilian helpdesk, or how did that, what is that like?

SMITS: So the assignment that I had when I was in Germany, we were actually becoming the first consolidated Air Force helpdesk. So previously each base would have their own Comm [Communications] helpdesk. And then we were -- the Air Force was basically going away from that. So each base was no longer having a computer helpdesk. It was, there were four centralized computer help desks in the Air Force, and we took on all of USAFE [United States Air Forces in Europe], 00:16:00so all the bases that were in Europe, we took on. And then from there, they started taking on some of the stateside bases. That was right before I had PCSed [Permanent Change of Station].

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. So it was Europe, basically.

SMITS: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And, um, you had mentioned that you were kind of, paving the way, in the pre-interview, for setting up the help desks. Can you give me any more detail on that?

SMITS: Yeah! So, I mean, like I said, I think when I started there, we only had a few bases, um, and, and then, um, we took on all of Europe and it really presented challenges, you know, that they hadn't really thought about because you have somebody that's at a remote base and, say that they forgot what their password is. You would have to -- you couldn't just give it to them because you didn't know if that was actually the person, you know, that was supposed to be 00:17:00getting that password or if it was somebody impersonating somebody else. So we still had people that were like trusted agents, if you will, that we were only supposed to give these passwords to. Well, you have somebody at a remote base and it's, you know, 3 o'clock in the morning, well there's no trusted person available. Um, so those were a lot of the issues that we had to work through. We would have some very upset people [laughs], uh, some upset high-ranking people yelling at us, telling us that we're going to give them their password. And, [laughs] um, but, you know, we work through those challenges. And I think that, you know, it's a successful model that they they turned it into.

SPRAGUE: Were there, uh, was it, uh, did you have, was it like a call center or how did that?

SMITS: Yeah. So I don't even remember how many people we had. But say there were 20 people and it was just a line of computers, no cubicles or anything. It was just computer, computer, computer. And [sighs] we, there was a central number 00:18:00that people called and whoever was up next in the queue, that's who took the call.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, what did you, I mean, what was that job like? Did you enjoy it? Was it -- what, what did you think of it?

SMITS: Yeah, I think, you know, overall, I gained a lot of experience from it and it could be very high stress. Um, you're -- it was always busy, so, you know, you hang up with a call and within, you know, 20 seconds, your phone could be ringing again. I remember that there were times where I was answering over 100 calls in a day. Um, so -- it was good experience. Definitely. I learned a lot from it and then ultimately from that, uh, my career field was merging, so you either were going more to like the admin side of stuff or to the IT side. Since I had gotten some of my IT certifications, then I had gone to the IT side and I merged actually into the Client Systems career field.

SPRAGUE: What did you do in your downtime while you were there?

SMITS: Um, well, I traveled a little bit. I wish I would have traveled a little bit more. But then I was also a single mom, um, so I, actually my daughter was born in Germany, and so a lot of time I was, you know, just being a mom when I was off duty.

SPRAGUE: Do you want to talk at all about that experience while being in the military and what that was like?

SMITS: Yeah, I think being a single mom overseas, I think it presented challenges. I mean, being 18 and being overseas, a lot of people are like, "Hey, that's great," because, you know, they could drink then and they could go out and party and they could travel and they could live it up. And, um, I found out that I was pregnant very shortly after I arrived in Germany. So it was, I think, a very different experience for me, um, presented its challenges because, you 00:20:00know, you're required to work 9 hours a day, uh, daycare on base, they only allow you to have your child there for 10 hours. So it pretty much allows you enough time to drive to and from work and then pick your child up. Um, when my work wanted me to go to 12-hour shifts, they pretty much told me that I had to utilize my family care plan because there weren't other options available. Uh, and, you know, that's hard in itself to trust other people with watching your kid while you have to work. Um, they had on base, they had like uh, first, uh, a sergeants' association. And, so one of my coworkers knew some of the challenges that I was facing with the childcare and said, "Hey, why don't we go to this meeting? You know, it's a bunch of chiefs and you kind of voice whatever problems or issues you're facing, and you could bring up the daycare thing and see if maybe they could expand the hours or if there's other solutions available 00:21:00to try and help you out so that you can still come to work and do your job." And, so I went there and kind of voiced my opinion and the response that I got from the chief, I'll never forget. He said that, instead of saying, you know, "I appreciate your question, and let's try and find some solutions for you," the response was, "This is why I despise single parents in the military." Um, and, you know, that's something that I'll never forget. Um, I think it's something that pushed me throughout my career to prove, um, not only to that chief, but to everyone that I came across in my career, that I could not only be a woman and serve in the military, but I could be a mother, a single mother at that, and I could still serve my country. I could do it honorably and I could do it well. And I think that kind of pushed me throughout the rest of my career to do just that. When I had found out that I was pregnant as well, um, I was taken into a 00:22:00room with all of my male leadership. So my supervisor, my flight chief, the superintendents, my first sergeant, they were all males and they kind of started talking to me and they started talking about how I was going to separate from the military. And, you know, it's intimidating in itself to be in a room with a bunch of higher-ranking males, especially when, you know, I was new to this duty station, um, and I was still a young airman. And kind of at one point, though, I was like, "What do you guys mean? Like, why would I get out of the military?" And they were like, "Well, you're pregnant." And I'm like, "Don't pregnant people serve in the military?" And they were like, "Well, yeah, but don't you want to go home and have your family support?" And I'm like, "No," like, "I want to serve my country." And, you know, I think that was just another example of I'm going to prove to them that I can do this.

SPRAGUE: Hmm. How did things progress over time with the Air Force being able to accommodate and work with, uh, that's your single motherhood and -- did it change over time, or was it constant the whole way through?

SMITS: Um, you know, after that, I PCSed in 2009, I went back to Lackland. I worked on Security Hill, um, and I think I had more support while I was there. There was more civilian leadership within my unit there. So, um, I had a female civilian supervisor, and I think she was very understanding of me being a single mom and definitely tried to, you know, support me through it. But, you know, I'm very hardheaded. And despite me being a single mom, I was always, you know, 00:24:00going to be there and show up and do everything that anybody else was asked to do. I didn't ever want or expect special treatment. Um, so I think I had more support. Um, and I don't know that there were any more, like, major issues of, like people trying to push me out or anything like that.

SPRAGUE: So you ended up leaving Ramstein in '08.

SMITS: In 2009.

SPRAGUE: 2009. Okay. Uh, was that a choice, or was it the Air Force saying, we now want you to go to Lackland, or?

SMITS: Yeah. So that was it was just the end of my three-year tour. And that was my follow-on, was to Lackland.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Um, can you tell me a little bit about, in your pre-interview you told us about the Cryptologic Systems Division. Um, can you tell me a little bit about what you did there? Um, without providing us, we don't need any classified.

SMITS: Right. Yeah. So, um, Cryptologic Systems Group, it started off as, we kind of switched up and changed names a little bit. Cryptologic Systems Division. I started off actually as, like, more records management when I got there. So I was inspecting people's records, making sure that their records were, they were following them and filing them properly. Um, and then again, my career field had merged during that time, and that was then when I went to the IT side. Um, so we were kind of a special case with what our mission was with our unit, so we had our own Air Force helpdesk within our unit still. Um, so I started working there and then it, [laughs] it was kind of crazy, actually. We had a full team of people and then, you know, one person retired, one person separated, one person deployed, somebody PCSed. And it was literally, at one 00:26:00point, left with me running the help desk. And then around that time is when I sewed on E-5 [Enlisted, Paygrade 5], Staff Sergeant, and I became the NCOIC, or the noncommissioned officer in charge, of the Helpdesk. Started getting more airmen and training them. And then I kind of ran that helpdesk until my time was almost up. Um, I guess with the exception, at the end, they had more help coming in, just before I had separated from the military.

SPRAGUE: Tell me a little bit about what that was like being in that role as a supervisor for the desk.

SMITS: Yeah. So that was something that I really enjoyed. Um, so I enjoyed, um, you know, training my airmen, leading them. Um, I feel like we tried to do team building exercises, you know, to become closer and just work together. Um, I was 00:27:00somebody that I would never expect something out of them if I wasn't willing to do it myself. Um, I think it was just a good role to push myself and advance myself as well.

SPRAGUE: Did the Air Force, uh, provide you with training to be in that role?

SMITS: Yes. So we had a five-week course, five or six-week course. Um, it was Airman Leadership School that we had to go to. Um, and so went to that, and you have to attend that before you can actually sew on E-5.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the challenges that you faced as the supervisor?

SMITS: I think a big part of it was, [sighs] we had people that, again, kind of, you know, like I talked about in the beginning of the interview with basic 00:28:00training, you have people from all over. Um, you're put into these roles and these jobs, and IT is kind of a, um, you know, not everybody likes technology, right? [Laughs] And so not everybody necessarily wanted to be there doing that job. Um, and when our career fields merged, some people maybe wanted to go more the information management route, and instead, they were put in technology. And that was probably one of the biggest struggles, is the people that didn't want to be there and had the 'I don't care' attitude was "How do I get them to want to come to work and want to work together with everybody that's there as a team?" And that was kind of where we did some of those luncheons, just, you know, shut the helpdesk down for 2 hours, let's get some pizzas or some Chick-fil-A or something. [Laughs] And we kind of just, "Why are we here?" You 00:29:00know, and one of the big things that I remember I asked them and that I feel kind of brought us together, we were, where we realized we were kind of all there for the same big reason was, I said, "What is your why? Why are you here? Why did you join the Air Force? What was your driving force? You know, when you're having a bad day, what makes you look, you know, to the future and say, okay, let's get past this, this is why I'm here." And when we kind of all listed off, you know, our 'whys', we realized we were kind of all similar. And going back to that one team, one fight, we all wanted the same thing. And, you know, we did some other team building exercises of, you know, locking arms and trying to get out of it and stuff. And it was just kind of fun to let loose and laugh and have fun and, um, yeah, hopefully brought the team together.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. What were some of the changes that you think you brought to 00:30:00that role that changed things permanently or over time, for that organization?

SMITS: So, um, I did, [sighs] I did create a lot on SharePoint. So it was something that wasn't previously set up for that unit. So I basically created a SharePoint site that allowed users to, instead of having to call us or email us or whatever, they could basically go out to a website and they could submit it to get themselves some, input what their problem was, and then it would submit it to us. So I think that was, you know, probably one of the cool things I did there. Um [pauses], yeah, I don't like to brag about myself too much. [both laughing] I mean, I got a couple of awards while I was there and stuff, but yeah, I think probably one of the most notable ones was actually the first week that I arrived to that Cryptologic Systems Division. I was still living in a hotel out of my suitcases. It was my first day that I arrived to the unit. The 00:31:00first sergeant came to see me to introduce himself, and he pulled me aside and I thought I was getting in trouble. And, uh, he pulled me, basically, and he put me into a uniform inspection because he thought that I looked sharp. And he was impressed because he knew I had just traveled from overseas. And, um, I had actually, I won a 'look sharp' award for my unit. And on the first day I arrived at my new unit. So that was one of the, one of my coolest awards, I think.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, that would be quite a feat-

SMITS: Right.

SPRAGUE: To show up and arrive in a uniform that's crisp.

SMITS: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Wow.

SMITS: Yeah, I definitely took pride in how I looked in uniform.

SPRAGUE: What are some other people, special people, that you remember from that unit that affected you or mentored you, if you remember any?

SMITS: Yeah, um, I've had some rough, rough moments. [Laughs] Um, but yeah, I 00:32:00think, definitely my supervisor, Annette, she was she was really great. Um, but I think the one that probably, -- my supervisor, Sergeant Windsor, he was great as well, a great mentor to me. But I think the one that really stands out was my colonel, and it was around the time where I was thinking of separating from the military. And we had kind of talked a few times before. Um, his name was Colonel Kinney, and he pulled me aside, when he had heard that I was thinking of separating. And he basically, he stated that, you know, he goes, "Ashley, the Air Force will be here. If you want to stay in," you know, he's like, "we would love to have you. You're doing great things." He goes, "But at the end of the day, if you decide to separate, we'll replace you." You know, he said, "You're replaceable to the Air Force." And he goes, "I know you have your daughter." And he goes, "And if she needs you right now, then it's okay for you to separate and 00:33:00go be with her and to put her as the priority now." And I think that was just some real advice that I took to heart, and ultimately what led to my decision of separating from the military to put my daughter first. And yeah, just something that I really appreciated that as a colonel, he could be personable with me and take that time.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. You had mentioned rougher moments. Do you care to share at all what you were talking about?

SMITS: Um, there, there was, um, some unpleasant moments. Um, so while I was the supervisor, um, I worked a lot with, you know, the different troops and stuff that I had, and we also had contractors. Um, so part of what we were doing was, 00:34:00we were standing up the Air Force cyber unit, so it was in the building next to us. And I went over there with one of the contractors, and this contractor was retired Navy, um, and he was inappropriate with me while we were over there working on it. Um [meaningful pause], yeah, I don't think there's any way to really sugarcoat that. Um, he touched me inappropriately. Um, and he, ultimately, he was fired. Um, but I think that is still something that, it sticks with you. Um, a few weeks after it had happened, my unit actually had, like, a stand-down day, and we were doing training, and obviously one of the topics that had came up was, you know, the sexual harassment, sexual assault. Um, you know, and I, what I want to say about that is what they always say is, you know, you get all this training and, you know, so you should know what to do 00:35:00in these situations and, to know how to prevent it so it won't happen to you. And when we had this stand-down day, I felt as a leader, you know, being in that NCOIC position, and I had airmen that looked up to me, and I wanted to just speak up and let people know like, "Hey, this is still happening in our Air Force, it's happening right in front of your face. It happened to me." And so I kind of stood up and I just told my story of what happened. Um, and to me, it was supposed to be an empowering moment to say my story. And instead, there was a male who stood up and said, "But you've had this training, and you should have stopped it, and this is what you should have done!" And so I immediately became the victim again. And I think, you know, that was a hard moment in my career to 00:36:00be made a victim, as a victim, if that makes sense. Um, you know, that's something that I--I hope -- no woman has to, no woman or man has to go through, you know, to be touched inappropriately. Um, but much less to be made a victim when it does happen to them. Uh, yeah.

SPRAGUE: And you had said that this individual was fired, or a civilian, or what?

SMITS: He was a contractor. And he was let go. I let his contract lead know what had happened, and all I know is that it was handled.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And that was at, um, that base in Texas?

SMITS: Correct. At Lackland Air Force Base.

SPRAGUE: At Lackland, okay. So, uh, do you want to talk about that anymore, or no?

SMITS: No.

SPRAGUE: Are you good? Okay. Um, so then you went on to MacDill?

SMITS: Yes. Um, so, 2011, Iraq was drawing down. I had actually gotten orders to go to Kandahar, Afghanistan. And because Iraq was drawing down, tons of assignments were being canceled and my Afghanistan was actually canceled. So, again, kind of funny being a single mom. You know, when that assignment came down, my supervisor and my flight chief, they actually pulled me aside. They thought I was going to take it super hard, you know, being a single mom and having to deploy and stuff. And I was actually like, okay, like, I'm ready. Like, this is why I joined, like, I'm ready to go. And they were really surprised by it. But I had wanted to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. I just wanted to go. I wanted to serve. And then it got canceled. So then I wasn't going 00:38:00anywhere. And then I got orders to go to Tampa, Florida. And it was considered a deployment because it was CENTCOM [Central Command] headquarters there. And you had the possibility that at any point you could forward deploy to Qatar. And so I had a six-month deployment to Tampa, Florida, MacDill Air Force Base. And, um, again, I wasn't able to take my daughter with me.

SPRAGUE: How did you handle that with your daughter and not being able to take her with you?

SMITS: Yeah. So I think it was almost harder to be in Tampa, Florida, than it would have been to be in Afghanistan. Um, and maybe it's hard for me to say that because I haven't been to Afghanistan. But I say that from the point of view of being a mom and seeing normal life in Tampa versus if you're in Afghanistan, 00:39:00like everybody's in that situation with you, like everybody's missing their families. Um, so kind of missing my family, but everybody else was around theirs. That was what the hard part was for me, for my Tampa deployment.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. And tell me about what you did at CENTCOM.

SMITS: Yep. So some of it is that I cannot talk about, but basically, we were considered like a watch officer. So we had a full screen, a full wall of TVs, if you will. Um, and we monitored all the comms for CENTCOM, the whole MAJCOM [Major Command] of CENTCOM. So everything in the Middle East, all the bases, all the comms, we managed, so everything from the secure networks to the exchange, their emails, Internet, that is everything that -- that is what we, we monitored 00:40:00and we watched. We supported the commander's comm team. So the CENTCOM commander, which was General Mattis at the time, we supported his comms. If there was a base outage of comms, we reported that stuff. Um, so, yeah.

SPRAGUE: Did, uh, I'm trying to picture this in my head. Did you actually personally terminate the comms or were you supervising people who terminated the comms or were you just monitoring comms [coughing] that was going on around you?

SMITS: It was more monitoring. We reported on them. It was a one-deep position. Um, there were other people that were there, but they each kind of monitored their own comms, if you will. Um, and then my direct position was more responsible for maintaining a list of all the comms, what the status was of 00:41:00them, if there was outages. And then we provided the briefing every day to our O-6 [Officer, Paygrade 6].

SPRAGUE: What, is there a typical day other than what you just listed in terms of what you would do there?

SMITS: [Pauses] Um.

SPRAGUE: Or were they highly variable?

SMITS: [Laughing] Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Were they all over the map?

SMITS: It depended, it depended on what was happening, as far as what was happening in the Middle East. Um, that affected what we were doing. Um, that's about all I can say. [Laughing]

SPRAGUE: Yeah, no, that's fine. That's good. Uh, did you work in shifts, or were you? You said one-deep.

SMITS: Yep. So we were in 12-hour positions. We worked a Panama night shift. So I think that was the hardest part of it, really, is working night shift. I 00:42:00would, you know, you'd go three days and not sleep at all.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Uh. Anyone special from that, that mentored you in that position or helped you along that sticks out in your head?

SMITS: Just with it being night shift, and, um, I didn't have a whole lot of interactions with people there.

SPRAGUE: Okay. On the outside, when you're outside the wire, what did you do in your downtime?

SMITS: Um, I think one of the things that I do want to say about that assignment, though, so kind of going back to when the Air Force, or the military in general, when you join, um, what I like to say is a lot of times when I meet veterans, they talk about how "I only". They say "I only", or "I just", "I only 00:43:00served two years," or "I didn't deploy. I only served stateside." And they're almost embarrassed about their service. And I kind of feel that shame as well, because I joined to serve my country, because I was patriotic, because we were at war. And I wanted to serve my country. And I didn't do that. But it wasn't by choice. It was because of what the Air Force [pauses] told me to do. And when I was at the CENTCOM headquarters [coughing], excuse me, there was a gentleman who was higher ranking than me. So he was an E-6, and he had just learned that he was going to be putting on E-7. And when he learned this, he felt that he no longer had to do his position. And so he was the day shift person and I was his relief at night. And so we would relieve each other. And when I would come in at 00:44:00night, the job wasn't done. He wouldn't update, you know, the lists and he would just verbally tell me and tell me that I had to do it. And I said, "I'm not relieving you until this is updated." Like he was, he outranked me, but like this is still your job. And he flat out told me, "It's not my job," because it wasn't, you know, within what his normal AFSC [Air Force Specialty Code] was when he would be at his normal base. And I said, "This is what the Air Force is telling you that you need to do right now. The Air Force assigned you this position and this is what you need to do." And I said, "I'm not going to do your job the whole time that I'm here." Um, you know, I tried to do it tactfully, [both laughing] but I think that was one of those moments where, you know, it was kind of, like, I had to put my foot down. And I think, you know, we finally 00:45:00found a common ground, and he realized, like, "Okay, I'm here for six months. This is what the Air Force told me I have to do. Like, she's right. Like, I just have to suck it up and do it because otherwise I'm going to be miserable for six months." And, um, you know, in life, in the Air Force, in the military, in your job, whatever, you're going to come across things that you're not always going to like and want to do, but you got to just do it. And, you know, I didn't like my job every day, but I came to work and I did it and I did it well because it was what they told me I was doing for those six months. And as a result of that, I was also the only person from my rotation of that six-month rotation that received a decoration. Um, so I received a Joint Service Achievement medal from that six-month tour that I was there, as well.

SPRAGUE: Tell me, uh, this is interesting. Tell me a little bit about that Joint 00:46:00Service medal, because that's a newer thing since I got out. Tell me a little bit about, tell the civilians on the line what that is.

SMITS: So Achievement Medal. It's, you know, the lower of the medals that you can receive. But 'Joint Service' was because there was, we were supporting all branches. So it's not just an Air Force Achievement medal, it's joint service. Um, and [sighs] yeah, I think the decoration, it's a, they read a citation, basically, and they just talk of the service that you did or the work that you did while you were, you know, during that time frame. Um, I don't know. Does that answer your question?

SPRAGUE: Yeah, it does.

SMITS: Mm. Okay.

SPRAGUE: So then also tied into that, what was it like working in a joint headquarters?

SMITS: I think it was awesome. Um, there's a lot of high-ranking officials, [laughs] um, leaving work in the mornings, if I got held over was never fun 00:47:00because I didn't want to walk to my car and salute everyone. But, you know, I learned a lot there. Um, not everything that I can share just because of, you know, the classification, but, you know, I learned a lot. I saw a lot. I talked to a lot of very important people. Um, you know, so it was just a really cool assignment. Even though it was stateside. It was still a great assignment.

SPRAGUE: You had said in the pre-interview, you had run, uh, won, I'm sorry, Client System NCO of the Year award. Correct. And that was at?

SMITS: That was once I got back from my deployment. That was when I was back at Lackland.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Back at Lackland. And uh, that was for NCO in your career field.

SMITS: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Tell us, tell us a little, please expand on that.

SMITS: Yep. So it was the Client Systems NCO of the Year for the MAJCOM. Um, so 00:48:00Client Systems was my job, NCO was my rank, and then MAJCOM was, you know, you have your unit level, you have base level, you have MAJCOM level, and then you have Air Force level. So I won at the MAJCOM level and then I lost at the Air Force level. So that was something that was really cool to me. Again, you know, to be recognized for actually doing my job. And I think, you know, that goes back to the whole single mom. Like, you know, it wasn't easy. You know, it was stressful to be a single mom and to raise my daughter on my own and to run a help desk at the same time, but to also be kick-ass in my job while doing it.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the things that they're looking for for that award? If you can give us a little bit more specifics.

SMITS: Yeah, so that award is strictly career-related. Um, so it's things that 00:49:00you've done to make an impact within your job. So some of the awards, they also take into consideration things that you're doing off duty, like if you're volunteering or going to school, things you're doing to better yourself for the community. But this one was strictly things that you're doing in your career field.

SPRAGUE: While you were down at MacDill for your deployment, any, while you were there, any issues with sexual harassment there? Or.

SMITS: Um, [pauses] I didn't have issues with sexual harassment. I was lucky that while I was in Tampa, I stayed in a high-rise apartment right in downtown Tampa. Um, and my apartment was actually broken into. Um, so, um, I worked night 00:50:00shift, and I at least tried to sleep during the day. And I just remember waking up and there were five men in my apartment, um, one as close as, you know, beside the bed, right at about where my hips were. And I woke up, I saw them, and literally jumped out of bed. Um, and I think I scared the crap out of them [both laughing] because, as much as they did me seeing them, and when I jumped out of bed, they literally scrambled and they ran out. And that was a moment 00:51:00that [pauses] in the place where you're supposed to feel the most safe, and you can't. Um, and I had went to [pauses] the management of the apartment complex and they refused to speak to me. And so that's something that I don't talk about a lot. There aren't very many people who do know that. Um, but I think that is a moment in my life that, even though, thankfully, nothing happened, it was a big moment for me because, again, your home is the place where you're supposed to feel the most safe. And I think that's been one of the things, since that happened, that home is no longer a place that I feel safe at.

SPRAGUE: And what was your sense of why they didn't want to talk to you?

SMITS: Um, [pauses] denial? Um, [pauses] do they have to, what would they have to do then? Um, was it an employee? I don't know. I don't know who it was. Um. [Pauses] I don't know.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so you're back -- puts you back at Lackland?

SMITS: Mm-hmm.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about what drove your decision. Why did you leave the military?

SMITS: So while I was at MacDill, my daughter again, she couldn't come with me. So I'm grateful that I have my parents. And she went and lived with my parents in Wisconsin for about seven months while I was deployed. Um, you know, I did a lot of stuff to prepare her, at least or so I thought. She was four at the time. 00:53:00She turned five while I was gone. You know, I recorded myself reading books and, you know, we had Skype dates that we would set up. Um, I would try and call her as often as I could. I sent her weekly letters, and I would color pictures for her, and I would send it through snail mail and, you try and do all these things. But the reality is she kind of pushed me away for her own way to cope with it. And when we, you know, when I went and got her and we went back to San Antonio, she had some pretty severe separation anxiety. And, um, it was hard on both of us, but more so on her that, you know, she had started kindergarten that fall when we got back. And ultimately, with the severe separation anxiety, she 00:54:00would act out at school because, you know, when I went on my deployment, it was "Mom's going to work.'" And then she had to stay with my parents for seven months. So when I dropped her off at daycare and I would say, "Mom's going to work", you know, as a five-year-old, she couldn't comprehend the difference of "Mom's going to work for 8 hours and then I'm going to come pick you up" versus seven months. And so while she was at school, she would act out and, um, kind of, to get that phone call from me or I would have to physically go to the school. And then I would show up and, okay, "Mom's still here, it's okay." And so ultimately, I, at that point, had determined that while I loved the Air Force and I thought that I was going to make a career of it and served for 20 years, at that point, you know, going back to the conversation with my commander, Colonel Kinney. My daughter needed me more in those moments. And so I 00:55:00ultimately, I applied to separate early from my contract. I was denied three times, and I was persistent and I applied again. I'm sorry, I was denied twice. The third time I was approved. Um, and I ultimately, I separated a little bit early, a few months early from my contract so that I could put my daughter first.

SPRAGUE: That must have been frustrating when you were trying to separate and they wouldn't allow you to separate.

SMITS: Oh, I was very frustrated. [Both laughing] Very. Yes.

SPRAGUE: Uh, so what was that transition like when you left the military to that first step into the civilian world after a while?

SMITS: Yeah, transitioning from active duty back to a civilian is very hard. Um, so, you know, you're no longer around people that are doing everything with you. 00:56:00They don't understand you. They don't understand the things that you've been through. You're not waking up and going to PT [physical training] with them and working with them all day. And, um, you know, so I changed careers. I moved across the country. I got a new job. I was staying with my parents. My daughter was in a new school. It was a ton of changes at once. And it was, it was really hard. Um, I went from being in a leadership position to being just somebody where I worked. And, in the civilian world, I found that there isn't a ton of respect always, especially now because I wasn't in that leadership position and I struggled with that. Um, I'm grateful that I had a really good supervisor at the time, and he was kind of understanding of that because I probably should 00:57:00have been fired a few different times [laughs] for some different, you know, um, interactions that I had with customers and stuff. But, um, it was a hard transition for me to not have any support. Nobody that knew what I was going through, and just kind of being thrown out there.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Did the Air Force have a transition program at all, or?

SMITS: So the Air Force made us go through TAPS, the Transition Assistance Program. And I think if I remember right, it was three days. So three days, and they taught you how to write a resume, and, you know, they told you about some of your benefits that you had and then you're basically thrown out into the world.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Did you happen to make use of your VA or GI Bill or?

SMITS: Yep. So I, I did use my GI Bill a little bit. I went to school online 00:58:00while, when I returned home.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what were your next career steps back in the civilian world? What was your plan there?

SMITS: Yeah. So I actually overlapped a little bit. So I was still on my terminal leave and I got a job. I actually work for Manitowoc County. I do IT support for the county now. Uh, so it was kind of an easy transition, if you will, because it was the same type of work. But again, I went from, you know, being in a leadership role to being just somebody. And to me, that was a big transition and change.

SPRAGUE: So it sounds like you lead by example because you want to be able to--you were talking about earlier in the interview about being able to do what your people do, and that. So it's a little bit like becoming an airman again and busted back down to E-1, or [laughs].

SMITS: Right. Right.

SPRAGUE: Um, so what? Yeah. What? Uh, yeah, that's got to feel different.

SMITS: It was.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. Um, tell me about this, a little bit, if you would, please. The Manitowoc County Veterans Group.

SMITS: Yeah. So, again, you know, I felt lonely when I got out. I wasn't around other veterans, and I missed that. I miss being able to relate to other people. And there were a few things that I had seen, you know, fliers or whatever. I was walking in festival one day and I saw a sign that they had like a vet cafe, but it was during the day, like, you know, it was at like 10:00 in the morning, well, I work. So how does somebody my age that's, you know, is out of the military and still works, how were they able to attend stuff like that to meet other veterans? And I think it's amazing that they do it and that they're supporting veterans. You know, and I think that our older generation is very 01:00:00important and we need to do that stuff for them as well. But what about our younger vets? And so since I hadn't found anything that existed of, you know, what I was looking for, so having worked for the county, I knew the county veteran service officer, his name is Todd Bramer. So I kind of reached out to him and I said, "Hey, Todd, I'm kind of thinking about this. I want to start my own group." And he's like, "Well, what do you mean by that?" And I'm like, "You know, I've just been thinking of like, if I create, like a Facebook group and, you know, get information out to veterans and then, you know, we meet up once a month for coffee, but it'd be at night so that, you know, the younger vets that they're working near in the day, they can come to it." And he's like, "Yeah, that's a great idea." He's like, "Run with it." So I created a Facebook group called Manitowoc County Veterans, posted in there, for in, it was in September of 2019 that we were going to meet at a local coffee shop, reached out to the coffee shop and they offered us their room for free as long as we purchased some 01:01:00coffee, you know, to still give them a little bit of business. So it was kind of a win-win for us. And the first meeting, uh, four -- three veterans showed up and then me. So there were four people present there. And you know, you kind of feel a little defeated because you're like, okay, is this you know, is this really what people want? You know, is it just me that's feeling this way? But they were like, "No, stick with it." Like, you know, you got to get the word out more. So they kind of invited people. I would tell people about it, made fliers, kind of went in, pass them out a little bit, and then, you know, I still remember at the next meeting, then, eight people came. And it continued to grow and grow and grow. And now we have over 600 people in the group. So we meet regularly. We meet once a month now. We had to move to a bigger facility. Um, we 01:02:00met through COVID, so initially in March of 2020. So we were very young in the group, yet. We stopped meeting for a period of time and then probably, I think it was like June timeframe of 2020, I posted in the group and I said, you know, what do you guys need? Like, I haven't seen you guys in forever. And they were like, "We just want to meet again." They wanted to be in person. And there were still, you know, mask restrictions. And only so many people could, you know, be in a certain place at a time and stuff. And I was like, well, how can we meet, you know, and get past this? So we met at a park. We met outside, at a park, and that was one of our biggest turnouts yet. We had, well, there were well over 20 veterans that showed up, and they just wanted to be back meeting together. So, you know, and I've heard people say that the group was a big help through COVID, you know, for the mental health and checking in on them and posting funnies 01:03:00within this Facebook group and, you know, just asking questions and relating back to their service, you know, "Why did you join?" or, you know, I don't know, "What was your job?" and, you know, "Why did you get out?" or just different questions to make them think back to that service and bring us together, something that maybe some of them have never talked about their service to any of their family before. Um, so I want it to be a safe place that they can talk about their service and relate to others. So again, we meet once a month regularly where it's an informal meeting. Um, we've had some guest speakers come in that have been very great to the group. We've had some suicide awareness training, um, just so we can watch out and look for those signs and symptoms in our fellow vets. Um, we had Brian Eisch, he was on the Netflix documentary Father Soldier Son. He came and spoke with our group. He's actually local in 01:04:00Wisconsin. He was an amputee. Um, we had Kevin Hermening, who was a P.O.W. in the Iran hostage crisis. He came and spoke with our group. He's also a local to Wisconsin. So we've had some great people, veterans that have come and spoke in the group, get that camaraderie going. We started doing a monthly night out event where we have, it's just, we just call it Vet Night Out and people just go and they'll grab food or grab a drink or whatever they want. And it's just veterans hanging out in just a casual social setting. We've had family events where we have gone bowling, we've had mini golf. We have an event that's coming up where we're going to do Nerf gun wars. We really just try and get veterans out of the house, and I don't want veterans to feel like they have to isolate when they get out. And that was how I felt when I got out. So really just trying 01:05:00to provide an environment, I think that I was looking for when I separated. [Pauses] That is what I have tried to create with this group.

SPRAGUE: Mm-hmm. Do you think one of the advantages of your group is its informality, versus the traditional veterans groups that are more bound by formality?

SMITS: Absolutely. So there's no agendas. There's no, you know, gavel, let's start the meeting. There's no fees to join us. It's just vets can show up when they can and they can you know, they can come and go during that time frame or they can skip one month or -- um, very informal.

SPRAGUE: Do you ever see your group growing? It may have already done this. Is it limited by Manitowoc County or the whole state or what? What do you consider?

SMITS: Yeah. So our name is Manitowoc County Veterans. Um, I've had people 01:06:00actually find out about our group from some counties on the other side of the state and they said, "Hey, we heard about your group. Tell us how you did it because we want to create it here." Um, and so, you know, I've just tried to give my best feedback of how they can start it there. And that is exactly what the goal of the whole group is, is to help as many vets as possible. So, yes, while it's named Manitowoc County Veterans, any veteran is welcome to come and join our group. We've had people drive down from Green Bay. People have come from Appleton. We've actually had Jodi, Jodi Barnett. She's with the Wisconsin Women, um--

SPRAGUE: Wisconsin Department of Veterans Affairs!

SMITS: Yes, thank you! She has actually driven up from Madison, and she attended one of our meetings just to see how, you know, what we're doing. And they want to recreate it there. And so that, I think is one of the coolest things, is this 01:07:00was literally meant to just be like coffee once a month. And so to see like what it's turned into, it's almost like overwhelming sometimes because, you know, it wasn't, I don't know if it was like intended to really be that, but I think it's super cool that I get to -- so kind of full circle, right? I wanted to serve 20 years and life happened. Life changed and I wasn't able to do that. But I found this other outlet where I'm able to continue to help veterans and, in a sense, continue to serve.

SPRAGUE: Wow. That's really incredible.

SMITS: Right?

SPRAGUE: That's a great story. [Both laugh] So. It's about to be April. We're going to be coming into May. What do you do on Memorial Day? What's that like for you?

SMITS: Yeah. So we've done the parade. Um, so Manitowoc has a parade that we've 01:08:00had a float in for a number of years. We've either had a float or we have walkers that we've done. And then after that, they have, kind of like a ceremony as well, that we try to participate in. [Pauses] And one year during COVID, we met, actually, at Neshotah Beach in Two Rivers, and they just have like a little stand there. And there were vets that just came and we just kind of, we played "Taps" and had a moment of silence and then, kind of fitting, because it was like we were supposed to stay six feet apart from people, right? But it's Memorial Day. So I read this poem that was actually called "Six Feet". And so it kind of had that twofold meaning of, you know, we were going through this whole COVID, stay six feet apart from people. But, you know, as veterans, we probably all know somebody that we've lost while we were serving and, you know, the six 01:09:00feet. So, yeah, I think just being able to come together, whether it be during a happy time, you know, that we're out, you know, getting a burger or playing mini golf. But then also we're able to come together during those hard times and support each other through those losses as well.

SPRAGUE: I will have to say that as a veteran myself, I think the informality and the way that you've got that organization set up, that is, that sounds really good. That sounds really incredible.

SMITS: Yeah, it's been really great. Just like I said, just being able to help veterans. There have been you know, we have an annual picnic as well that has allowed for a little bit of money that's being donated through that. So being 01:10:00able as well to give back to veterans that need it. We've done Christmas for veterans for the past three years. We've done a food drive for veterans in need. So whether it's been a vet that has needed their lawn mowed, or a veteran that was recovering from surgery and they just needed a hot meal provided, or they needed help cleaning their house, this group has been able to provide that as well. So, again, just that community feeling and feeling like they're not alone. It's it's been really good. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So what do you think your life would be like if you hadn't served?

SMITS: If I hadn't served?

SPRAGUE: If you hadn't served.

SMITS: Ooh. Ah, that's a good question. I don't know I've ever thought about that before. Ooh. Um, I don't know. It's such a big part of me. Um.

SPRAGUE: Think of it. That part didn't exist.

SMITS: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Think if when you got back to 9/11, instead of saying, "Yeah, I want to do this", you did something else.

SMITS: At one point, I had thought of, you know, doing like, a pediatric nurse. Um. Wow. This one's kind of stumping me. I've never thought of that. [Both laughing] I think I was just so sure from so early in my life that this is what I was going to do. I've never, I've literally never thought what I would have done without it. Mm hmm. I, you know, the military has been amazing to me. Um, the training, um, you know, the benefits that, that I've been provided. Um, I think it taught me to be persistent, to have that strong willpower, to -- I 01:12:00know, you know, even without the military, how I got pregnant so young, you know, statistics say that getting pregnant at 18 that, that I should have been on welfare and, um, I shouldn't, I shouldn't be successful right now. And [pauses] I am. And, you know, I think if anybody hears this message, what I would want to say to you is that, you know, no matter what life throws your way is, you're still in control of that bus, like you're still driving it. Like you can be handed things in life that may not be desirable, but you still say what the outcome of your life is. And it may take a little bit of blood, sweat and tears and hard work in there, but you can still be successful and you can make it through any challenge that comes your way.

SPRAGUE: What motivated you to do this interview?

SMITS: I think I just want people to hear my story. I think I want people to know, um, like, I think like I just said, like, you can, you can go through hard times, but you can, you can still do great things. You can still be successful.

SPRAGUE: Did we miss anything you'd like to cover?

SMITS: [Inhales, pauses] I don't think so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Then that's going to conclude the interview.

SMITS: Okay.

SPRAGUE: Thank you.

SMITS: Thank you.