Oral History Interview with Kristina Biggs

[Interview Begins]

JONES: Today is May 1, 2023. This is an, is an interview with Kristina Biggs. The interviewer is Raleigh Jones, and this interview is being recorded via Zoom for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. The other person present for the interview is Luke Sprague. Kristina, let's start by having you tell us about your background and life before you went into the military.

BIGGS: Sure.

JONES: As an example, where were you born and raised?

BIGGS: Absolutely. So I was born and raised in rural Manitowoc County, so in a small town called Valders, Wisconsin.

JONES: Okay and, had either, did you have anybody in your family who had served in the in the military?

BIGGS: So my dad had my dad was in the Marines, but he had left service prior to 00:01:00me being born.

JONES: And did you have do you have any siblings?

BIGGS: I do. I have an older brother, a younger sister and a younger brother, none of who have served.

JONES: Okay. So you were breaking new ground with [inaudible]

BIGGS: I was.

JONES: And you took an unusual, turn, so to speak, in what you did in high school. But before we talk about that, let me--just tell me about your mindset of why you decided to do what you did in in high school.

BIGGS: Sure. So when I was in about the sixth grade, actually, I decided I wanted to go to college. And my parents had were very honest with me and told me that they would not be financially supporting my college. But I had a 00:02:00cous--well, it's actually my dad's cousin who was an ROTC [Reserve Officers Training Corps] instructor at the time. And so knowing that my dad had done the military, he was the one that had suggested to me that if I wanted to go to school, the military would provide me an avenue to receive my education without the student debt.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: So from that point, I was committed to- I knew that I was going to do the military so that way I could attend college.

JONES: Okie-doke. So then when you were in high school, tell us what happened.

BIGGS: Yeah. So when I was a junior in high school. So really, I think it was like a week after I turned 17, I had enlisted in the National Guard for the state of Wisconsin, with my MOS [Military Occupational Specialty] being a cook with the sole intent of how how do I get more familiar with the military, knowing that that was something I wanted to do and I knew I was going to do it in my future? How do I get more exposure and more understanding of what it even 00:03:00means to be in the military? Because I wasn't near a military installation. I had never been on a military installation. I didn't really know what it meant. And back then it was what, 2004? You know, we didn't have Google like we have today. So it was AskJeeves and stuff of that nature to try to get as much information as I could about what would be expected of me.

JONES: Okay. So how old were you when you went into the National Guard?

BIGGS: 17.

JONES: 17. Okay. And tell me about that process. Did you enlist, is that during the school year or was that in the summertime?

BIGGS: Nope. That was the summer of my junior--or I mean, I'm sorry, the fall of my junior year of high school. So I was supposed to go to basic training that summer following my junior year. But I had, I was in gymnastics and unfortunately had torn my meniscus during gymnastics so I could not go to basic training. And then by senior year, I had received the national ROTC scholarship. 00:04:00So then I was no longer eligible to go to basic training.

JONES: Okay, So you did not have any basic training?

BIGGS: No.

JONES: When you were in high school?

BIGGS: No, I would go to the drills, so I would drill once a month with the National Guard unit. But my unit was preparing to support Katrina at the time. So it's a little discombobulated, I guess, because they were they were very focused on the mission. And I was a 17 year old that couldn't, that hadn't been to basic training, and, yeah. They couldn't do a lot with me at the time.

JONES: Okay. So when you indicated you did the drills. Where did you do that?

BIGGS: In Oshkosh, with the transportation company out of Oshkosh, which would have been my assigned unit.

JONES: Your assigned unit was in Oshkosh.

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: For both your junior and senior year of high school.

BIGGS: That's correct. Yep.

JONES: Okay, Well, then you graduated and decided that- Where did you decide to 00:05:00go to college?

BIGGS: So I had actually started at the University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh, because I didn't realize at the time that I was awarded the National ROTC scholarship and that I was eligible to go to any school in the country. So I didn't discover that until my first semester freshman year at Oshkosh.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: So it--so I transferred from Oshkosh to Marquette before my second semester of freshman year.

JONES: Okay. So you just spent one semester at UW Oshkosh.

BIGGS: That is correct.

JONES: From there to Marquette?

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: Okay. And at Marquette. What happened?

BIGGS: Yeah. So at Marquette, I did finish my three and a half years there, received my degree in sociology. So through arts and sciences was heavily involved in the ROTC program, though they had a lot of extracurriculars, a lot of really, really good training that I'm extremely grateful for. So I did Ranger 00:06:00Challenge, Cadet Rangers, color guard, all of just really those enrichment opportunities to get a better understanding of the military lifestyle.

JONES: Okay. Could, you named several of the things you did, but could we go back and hit them with a little more specificity? Tell me, for instance, you were taking a load of, was it a full load of classes, plus your ROTC classes?

BIGGS: That's correct. So--

JONES: So how many ROTC classes were there, say, your first year.

BIGGS: The first year there, what we did, I think class was once a week. But then you had PT 3 days a week, and then you have--

JONES: And is PT--PT is what?

BIGGS: Physical training

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: So yep you workout, do military training in the morning before before classes started for the day. So we would wake up before the rest of campus and exercise or do military workouts. Then I would go to regular class and then have 00:07:00my ROTC classes filtered in. Friday mornings we would do a lab. So it was a two hour intensive leadership training, basically where you had different roles within a platoon doing infantry tactics. And you started that freshman year and it progressed. The seniors taught the classes and then freshman and sophomore juniors enriched them more or less. Or were the participants.

JONES: Okay. When you came in in the second semester of your freshman year, I take it there were some people in your class who had already been there that the freshmen, for the first semester, and you just came in late, essentially. What did you miss from that first semester?

BIGGS: Um, nothing really, because I was doing ROTC at Oshkosh already.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: The difference was Marquette had a lot more of those ROTC affiliated extracurriculars that weren't available to me at, at Oshkosh. So when I started 00:08:00second semester, we went to the Notre Dame basketball tournament, which was all four branches of ROTC throughout the country. They would send the basketball teams basically to Notre Dame once a year to participate in this ROTC competition or ROTC basketball competition, more or less. So I joined that, like the first week I was there and a month later I was at that tournament. So that was the only thing where I didn't have as much training with them or much practice before heading out to that tournament.

JONES: Let's pivot back to the extra curriculars that you did at Marquette. Could you tell me about that?

BIGGS: Sure. I think the most rigorous one was really the Ranger Challenge. So that is a competition where the cadets, you go, we train all semester for it, and then it culminates with the competition out at Fort McCoy again against all the other Army ROTC team, or schools can each send their teams there to Fort 00:09:00McCoy for this competition weekend. And it consists of, I was on the five woman team, so there was five of us ROTC cadets from Marquette, all females who we did a grenade throw, you do a Humvee, pull, you do, we did mount round clearing at the time. You do a PT test, obstacle course. It's just a whole week of physical activities of day land nav., night land nav., just a lot really to test your skills and to make sure that you have that military competence. And luckily we took first place my senior year, which was, and most of the other years too, which was really cool. As a female, as you're competing against the five man teams, to have the five, as a five female team to beat the men's men's teams as well. Was very cool.

JONES: You mentioned they're competing against the men, but for purposes of context, how many women were in the ROTC program when you were there?

BIGGS: At Marquette there was probably about 30 of us through all four grades. Out of the 125 cadets in the program, about 30 of us were women.

JONES: So about one fourth.

BIGGS: Yeah.

JONES: Okay. So what was another extracurricular program that you did?

BIGGS: The Cadet Rangers. So that one was we would meet on Wednesday nights and study land nav., study more of the tactics in military tactics to get more proficient in that. So it was really just an extra club where we would study military bearing, I guess.

JONES: Yeah.

BIGGS: No competition really, with that one.

JONES: Any other extracurriculars?

BIGGS: Color guard, so we would do color guard for the basketball games for weddings. If people wanted honor guard at their weddings, we would do the saber 00:11:00arches. Yeah.

JONES: Did you do that?

BIGGS: I did, yeah. That was pretty cool.

JONES: That must have been cool.

BIGGS: Yeah.

JONES: And you were in your dress uniform, I take it?

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: Was, were you, for instance, one of the only females doing that, or were there other females doing that at the time?

BIGGS: Nope. My two roommates in college did it as well. I think the three of us were pretty, pretty high speed, so we were given a lot of opportunities to do some of those cooler things.

JONES: Did you ever do funerals?

BIGGS: We did not do funerals as cadets.

JONES: Okay. So that was during the school year. Tell me about the summers. What did you do during the summers that was related to ROTC?

BIGGS: Yeah. So in the summer, I the summer between my junior and senior year, I went to Fort, Fort Lewis, Washington to--

JONES: Let me interrupt you right there. Did you do anything in your first summer, that freshman year?

BIGGS: I did not.

JONES: Okay. What about your sophomore year?

BIGGS: I don't believe so.

JONES: So junior year you did what again?

BIGGS: I went out to Fort Lewis, Washington, to we, that's where we would do our summer training, more or less. So you, all the cadets in the country, from all of the different schools between their junior and senior year, would go out there and we would be assessed based off of our leadership skills and our military proficiency. So it was a month long camp and we called it summer camp, really, but it was LT, LC, there were some acronym at the time. So we we went out there. Again, it was the same thing, obstacle courses, PT tests, infantry tactics where you're being assessed on your leadership skills. So there was formal assessments that were conducted on you to help you see how you were, and then it would compare you against all the other cadets in the nation, and that 00:13:00would go as part of your order of merit list. So you, when it came to graduation, you were put on an order of merit list against all the other cadets in the nation. And that's how they would determine what your military branch would be, as well as what your duty station would be, depending on how you ranked against everyone else.

JONES: How long was this experience in the state of Washington?

BIGGS: It was a month.

JONES: Okay. And then when that was done, did you have other duties that summer related to ROTC?

BIGGS: I did. So I was selected to go to CTLT [Cadet Troop Leadership Training], which was the Cadet Leadership Training co--so I went out to Fort Lee, Virginia, and was assigned to a mortuary affairs unit. So it was an active duty mortuary affairs, which falls under the quartermaster branch. And I was really there to again redefine my--improve my military proficiency, learn from a second lieutenant and see how he led his platoon, as well as learn some of the, the day ins and outs of active duty military.

JONES: Mortuary affairs. Did you ever deal with casualties who were returning to this country from--

BIGGS: I--not with the soldi--not that. We did--They would they would go to the morgue in Richmond, Virginia, to do their training to stay proficient. So at the time, we were in the middle of two wars. So those soldiers, because they were attached to the 101st, they would deploy every six months and then they would get six months off, because obviously the military doesn't have a large standing presence of morticians or mortuary affairs personnel. So a lot of what I learned while I was there was one I mean, I did get to see the deceased at the morgue and see how they processed human remains. Learned a lot about the respect that goes into it and just the challenges of that position and how we view it as a military. But then additionally, seeing those soldiers and watching the platoon 00:15:00leader, how he had to navigate, a lot of them ended up having mental health issues right from what they had to see and what they had to process. So seeing him support them at the civilian inpatient clinics. And how do you manage soldiers that are inpatient then because of what they had seen in the military while they're on that break before they have to go right back over there again?

JONES: Okay. So did you do anything else that summer?

BIGGS: Nope, that was it.

JONES: Now, for both of those events, were you just with people from Marquette or were these this was people from all over the U.S. in the ROTC program.

BIGGS: This was nationwide. This was national.

JONES: Okay. So then you started your senior year and did you have more classes? Is that the heaviest amount of ROTC classes that you had at Marquette?

BIGGS: Yeah. So my senior year, they assigned you, each person in our class was 00:16:00assigned a different staff position. So, like, for instance, I was the S-1 in the S-5 for the battle--for our battalion, our ROTC battalion, essentially. So as the S-5, I coordinated our military ball, I coordinated our dining in, and hosted those two events basically for those additional enrichment opportunities. So I had to study a lot of, again, the history, the culture, the tradition that goes into the military and able to host those, obviously. So I did all of that, and that was just while you're again, on top of your regular coursework getting ready for graduation. Yeah, and all of that. So.

JONES: Okay. What about extracurriculars in your senior year were related to ROTC?

BIGGS: It was the same. It was that the Cadet Rangers, the Ranger challenge, the color guard, yeah, the Notre Dame basketball.

JONES: Yeah. So that's about the same set of extracurriculars in your senior 00:17:00year as you had in your junior year.

BIGGS: That's correct. The only difference is now you're leading those extracurriculars. So it was very much cadet led and our cadre who were active duty military, they really took a mentorship role and let us kind of run the program with their guidance. So it gave us an opportunity, you know, amongst your peers to really, again, hone in on your leadership skills before you got in front of a platoon.

JONES: Okay. Now, before you graduated--Okay, so in in May of what year was that?

BIGGS: 2010.

JONES: Okay. You graduated and then presumably you went into the military, into the army that summer?

BIGGS: Yeah. So it was about a week after graduation. I was actually driving down to Kentucky, to Fort Knox, Kentucky. I was awarded, or was assigned to the lead the summer camp. So cadets in between their sophomore year and junior year, 00:18:00if they hadn't done ROTC courses, could do a make up camp essentially where they go down to Fort Knox, and then they get kind of that, everything that they would have missed their freshman and sophomore year at this camp at Fort Knox. So I was cadre for there now. So I was their personnel admin person for the, the company.

JONES: Okay. Now, before you went to Fort Knox, had you ever had, what had basic training yet?

BIGGS: No.

JONES: Did you have basic training at Fort Knox?

BIGGS: I did not.

JONES: So, in essence, you skipped basic training?

BIGGS: I did.

JONES: How [inaudible]. I assume as, as a layperson, that that's very uncommon.

BIGGS: Yeah. Well if you go to ROTC, You're not required to do basic training. So basic training is really designed for the enlisted soldiers. Because I was commissioned as an officer, you are able to skip basic training unless you do 00:19:00direct, well, yeah. Direct Commission and OCS [Officer Candidate School] both do basic training, but West Point and ROTC do not have to.

JONES: Okay. So in the summer of, after you graduated, you go down to Fort Knox as a new second--do you have a second--

BIGGS: I'm a second lieutenant at the time.

JONES: And again, could you tell me again what your experience was there?

BIGGS: Yeah. So I was again, cadre, for the camp. So my responsibility was the personnel, so the intendants, the in-processing of cadets, really just whatever they needed me to be, I kind of did it all, was kind of a one stop shop because I was, well, the only lieutenant assigned to that. And most of the other ones were assigned to, like being cadre for the cadets directly, whereas I was more of that high level admin. Once the cadets all left, I stayed at Fort Knox for a little bit longer before I went over to Fort Lee, and at that point I was the Colonel's aide, more or less. But at that point we had a cadet who actually was 00:20:00struck by lightning and she passed away. So at that point, I was actually able to use what I learned in mortuary affairs the summer prior and had to help coordinate, get her--I picked her parents up in the airport and kind of started that process of what is that gray area, doing the research to figure out how do we take care of her family when this unfortunate thing happened.

JONES: Wow. How long were you at Fort Knox?

BIGGS: Two months.

JONES: And then you made the transfer to Fort Lee. And was Fort Lee where the cadet was struck by lightning?

BIGGS: Nope. At Fort Knox.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: Yeah, they were. They were doing a training exercise in the woods. And unfortunately, it just, yeah, it happens.

JONES: Okay, so. After you were transferred to Fort Lee, what did you do there?

BIGGS: So Fort Lee is where I finally got my, it's basic officer leadership course. So that is where I actually was trained, or did did my formal how do we be trained in my MOS. So I branched quartermaster, so went to Fort Lee to receive my quartermaster training before I could go to my first duty station.

JONES: And how long were you at Fort Lee?

BIGGS: About four months.

JONES: Okay. Tell us about the other things that happened at Fort Lee.

BIGGS: Yeah. Fort Lee was pretty quiet. It was. It was good because we it kind of got you grounded. It got exposed to the West Pointers, the OCS, you know, all, all officers kind of on that level playing field. I enjoyed learning about, like, you know, part of quartermaster is your fuel and water. So we got to learn how to set up a [??], to see how it works. We got sling load training, which was really cool of how to ship our product with, via aircraft, how to land the 00:22:00aircraft. That kind of stuff is cool, really just everything that encompasses quartermaster. So laundry, which is kind of obsolete now because we use a lot of contractors, but you learn what does that laundry system look like? How does that work in the fields? Mobile kitchen trailers for your food. Again just really quartermaster encompasses so much. So it was interesting to learn what we could potentially be exposed to when we got to active, or to our actual unit.

JONES: So you were at Fort Lee for four months and then what happened next in your story?

BIGGS: Yeah. So then on a personal note, when I was at Fort Lee, my husband was at, out in Missouri at Fort Leonard Wood, because we met in college at ROTC. So we went our separate ways, but we were still dating at the time. So when I got to Fort Lee, my, my duty station at that time was still supposed to be Fort Bragg, North Carolina. And my husband's duty station was supposed to be 00:23:00Baumholder, Germany. But he was, we were just dating at the time. The military only recognizes you if you have a marriage certificate. So we tried to go to Vegas one weekend to get married, but his commander wouldn't let him go. So when we were at, when I was at Lee and he was at Leonard Wood, we met in Manitowoc County, Wisconsin, over Labor Day weekend, and were married at the courthouse in Manitowoc right after that weekend, went back our both our separate ways.

JONES: Congragulations. That was still 2010?

BIGGS: This was all in 2010, yep, so we graduated college, did our officer trainings. I was at Lee. He ended up going to a sapper school and we finally met after I was done with, we both, we both met basically in Wisconsin around December 20, 2010 for a couple of weeks before we went over to Germany for our first duty station.

JONES: So, after Fort Lee being there for four months, then you went to Germany.

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: And where in Germany?

BIGGS: Baumholder, Germany.

JONES: Which is in what part of the country?

BIGGS: Southwestern portion.

JONES: Okay. And tell us about your experiences in in Germany.

BIGGS: Yeah. So when we, when I arrived at German, in Germany, I was when I weren't allowed to travel there together yet because the way our orders were. So I went there on my own. Flew acc-- yeah, across the world, I guess, by myself. Landed in Germany, had a sponsor who picked me up from the airport, basically, and took me to my hotel. Stayed in that hotel for, like, the first month we were there. But when we got to our unit, we learned they were, or I learned they were deploying. So they were trying to get me integrated as well as get me ready deploy, to deploy all within the same time. So when I was in the hotel room, I had my CIF as well as my combat stuff that I would need for Afghanistan. So we 00:25:00ended up getting our house about two weeks where we were going to live the remainder of the time in Germany. So we found a place to live, got our stuff delivered, and then about a week or two later, we were actually deployed to Afghanistan.

JONES: Okay. When you say we are you talking--

BIGGS: My husband and I.

JONES: Both of you were deployed together?

BIGGS: Ish. We were deployed to the same country, but we were not, because he was with the engineers and I was with the brigade support battalion. So we were in different companies, and different camps, in different regions of the country.

JONES: Now, when you were in Germany, you I take it you knew that it was going to be a short time in Germany?

BIGGS: No, I mean, I didn't know that until I landed on the ground.

JONES: Okay. You thought you were going to be in Germany for a while?

BIGGS: That's correct. Yeah.

JONES: Okay. How long did you think you were going to be there?

BIGGS: Um for, you know, the three years, obviously, but I knew there was always 00:26:00a potential to deploy. I didn't think it would be that soon of joining the unit.

JONES: It happened much quicker than what you had thought.

BIGGS: Yes.

JONES: So you were only in Germany for, what, about a month?

BIGGS: Correct. Yep, we I was, I deployed January 21st or something like that, end of January, so and we got to Germany about January 2nd timeframe, right after the holidays.

JONES: And this is two thousand and--

BIGGS: 11.

JONES: 11, okay. And where were you deployed first?

BIGGS: So yeah. So when we it was interesting because so I in addition to getting myself ready for deployment, I also was given my platoon right away to get them ready for deployment and my equipment and everything else. So we, when I actually got to deploy, they routed us--we had to get on a bus from Baumholder and they drove us over to Kaiserslautern at Rhine Ordnance Barracks, the same as 00:27:00they would with other soldiers coming from the US. So it was interesting cause we were down the road, but we were already disconnected basically where your family wasn't supposed to see you or anything. And at this point my husband had deployed before me, so I didn't have anyone in Germany, anyways, everyone was deployed. So we went to over to Kaiserslautern and then up to we stopped in Ireland or had a layover in Ireland, then went to [Kajirkistan??], which I'd never heard of before we landed there, and then went over to Marmal and then eventually into the northern region of Afghanistan. So Regional Command North in the Mazar-i-Sharif area.

JONES: Okay. So when you landed there. I assume. That you were one of the few females there.

BIGGS: Correct. Yep, I knew, I was a brigade support battalion. So there were 00:28:00some females, but definitely the minority. And at the time I had the headquarters platoon of the Alpha Company, which was our company did the resupply, so transportation more or less, as well as we had the SSA, which was the warehouse, I had the cooks as well, and yeah, I think that's about it, fuel and water were all within that company, basically.

JONES: Okay. Could you go back and, and give a little specificity about each one of those? Okay. For example, you mentioned fuel and water. Tell us about that.

BIGGS: Yeah. So the fuelers were the ones that we're responsible for, when we were doing the convoys, I would have, we would have a fuel truck with our convoys so they could, what was called, refuel on the move. So you would have your flatbeds that have all the supplies that needed to go out to our infantry and our field artillery companies from our brigade, or our battalions. So we 00:29:00would go either east or west, depending on which, which one we had to resupply. But with those those the convoys, you would have a fuel truck drive with you. And then my fuelers would get out of the fuel truck that they were driving and the trucks would drive past them and fill them up so they could continue moving without stopping at all because the convoys would take about 24 hours. So you would bring your fuel with you and able to get through the mountains and to get through the country.

JONES: And were you traveling with them at the time?

BIGGS: Not at the time. I would get to go along, because I was an officer. We had truck commanders that were, that was their platoon that was assigned, that they would just take members from my platoon to send along with them.

JONES: How much of your time were you spending with doing the fuel and water?

BIGGS: So they were about a couple of months into the deployment, I was actually assigned the entire fuel and water platoon. So but we were, we were still a 00:30:00brigade support battalion at the time when the rest of the military had went to forward support companies. So our structure of our brigade was a little--it didn't it wasn't necessarily conducive for the operations that we had on the ground. So titles became less relevant, and it was more what job do we need to get done? So I was given the fuel and, my soldiers were trained to do fuel and water, but that's not necessarily what they were doing. Some were doing convoys, some were gunners, some were doing the entry control point, so they were protecting our camp in conjunction with the Afghans. So we had Afghans out there with us as well, protecting our camp. And then we had Afghans manning some of our towers. So it was really collaborating with them, the local populace, basically. But my soldiers were the ones responsible for that.

JONES: Were any of your soldiers injured during doing their work?

BIGGS: My specific soldiers were--I had one that I had to medevac because he had a back issue. There was, there was a lot of threats. So I was really grateful that my soldiers were very well disciplined and did a very good job of when they were being threatened that they could stop what they were doing and control their reaction, I guess. So our mission there was to build--or to win the hearts and minds of the local populace. So because that was our mission, we would be tested by the local population. So as an example, there was one time that there was a guntru--a pickup truck full of men with AK 47s rushing up to the entry control point. Now, when you have a bunch of guns in your face, right, you have to trust that your body armor, that your protection works and not return fire. 00:32:00And my soldiers didn't, because our, our rules of engagement at the time was that you couldn't shoot unless you were shot at first. And you needed to be incredibly sure that you actually got shot at first, because there was a whole investigation. It was a thing because we didn't want it to get back to America, that we were undisciplined or that we were killing innocent people. So when my soldiers were encountered with that, they did a really great job of not shooting. So I was really grateful that they all got to come back safely. We didn't, I didn't have any casualties. And that was really, I was very proud of that. When the new unit replaced us, they didn't necessarily experience that. So their outcome was, was quite different.

JONES: Much more negative, I take it.

BIGGS: Yes.

JONES: What, what happened to them?

BIGGS: They took a lot of casualties. They responded with fire, unfortunately. And once you once you shoot then they, then they can shoot back. So you're kind of--if you can wait, and really, without a doubt, know that you're truly at 00:33:00threat. It was okay for us again, yeah, but that's not always the case.

JONES: When you were talking several times, you talked about you used the phrase my soldiers. Could you give us a number of what you were talking about?

BIGGS: Yes. So I had 42 soldiers in my platoon, and they were very cool because I'm from rural Wisconsin and they were not. So there was a lot of cultural differences and they were amazing at teaching me. So because I was a young lieutenant and these are all enlisted soldiers. They took me under their wing and, and gave me that expo--the NCOs specifically, or the sergeants, the noncommissioned officers, to teach me about what it means to be in the military. So I had a captain when I was a young lieutenant who encouraged me to go and be with your soldiers, right, so instead of hiding in an office somewhere, get, get on the ground and see what they're experiencing. So I would go out there with them when they were at the entry control point, when they were doing missions. I would go along just to see what they were seeing, and with all that boredom that 00:34:00comes with just regular army, there was a lot of opportunity for me to learn about their ways of life and how, how different we were, but at the end of the day, how, how we were all there for the same reason, you know, of wanting to get back home to our families, and just that universality of humanity was very cool.

JONES: In your company. How--what was the percentage of males?

BIGGS: So I don't know about in our company but in my platoon, for females, it was me and I had one lesbian soldier, so I was the only female in, in my platoon, and I was the platoon leader, more or less aside from that one other--

JONES: So you were--everyone else except the other wo-this one other woman was, was male.

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: Okay. And were these a cross section of American society?

BIGGS: Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent.

JONES: Tell us about that.

BIGGS: Yeah. So, like, one of my soldiers was from Detroit, and he was a, we 00:35:00called him water dog, so his MOS was actually to do water, water resupply or water cleaning, and so, he would tell a story about like how he joined the military because, so he wouldn't get shot at anymore, because he was used to life in Detroit. So it was just a different way of life, and they would make fun of me, that I was from a land of unicorn and rainbows because I'm from rural Wisconsin, and so places like this, they couldn't fathom it of just the, the lifestyle. So it was it was really enjoying to share those stories with each other. What were upbringings? What brought us here and what we were going to do afterwards?

JONES: So. The stories that you've sol--told about your interactions with them have all been positive. Were there any negative interactions that you want to tell us about?

BIGGS: Um, yeah. I mean, there are still was challenges. So I had one soldier from Puerto Rico, for instance, who told me he could not, he was not going to listen to me because I was a woman and, in his culture, he doesn't listen to women, and so, in that scenario, it was I respect that, but I don't care. You're 00:36:00in the US military, so you're going to follow these rules and you're going to listen to me, and, and we ended up, it was fine where, where I did have to get past some of that of those cultural challenges with within the Americans. I didn't have issues with my soldiers. Again, my soldiers are really great. But while I was over there, as soon as we got on the ground, we were, you know, the women were given pocketknives and told, you know, if you're getting raped, use this pocketknife even though you are carrying a weapon, but because it was so prevalent there that it almost felt like the American men, male soldiers were more of a threat than the Afghans, just because it's a different way of life over there.

JONES: Okay, any other experiences you want to tell us about when you were doing fuel and water?

BIGGS: Yeah. So mid-- so although my technical job then halfway through the 00:37:00deployment was fuel and water, President Obama at that time did a reduction in force. So he initiated this order. So I had to choose which ones of my soldiers got to go home for Christmas and which ones were going to stay in Afghanistan is really what was my decision to make. But at the same time, because we had that reduction in force, I had a change of mission. So although I was still responsible for my fuel and water soldiers, I actually switched over to a COP, so a combat outpost, and I was assigned to do be an advisor for the senior logistician for the Afghan National Army.

JONES: Did--okay. Let's, let's talk about the language difference between you and that person. How did you communicate with that person?

BIGGS: I had an interpreter.

JONES: And tell, tell us about that experience. I mean, I assume you were working with this person a large number of hours. And it was the interview-- was 00:38:00the translator there with you the whole time.

BIGGS: Yes, and, at the time, an E-8 had to go along with me because they hadn't, or at least in my area, females hadn't really taken that role yet, but when I had landed on the ground in Afghanistan, I was responsible for our eight Afghan interpreters. So I was their point of contact, I made sure they got paid, I knew--made sure they knew what our missions were, and because of my interaction with them and my ability to win their trust, and my colonel was able to see how I interacted with them, and how I could build that repertoire, and how they respected me, he was the one that recommended me or selected me to go move on to mentor the Afghan in the--so I wasn't allowed to stay at that actual COP. I couldn't sleep there because it was too danger--or because they didn't really want women there, because you couldn't like you couldn't wear summer PTs, for instance, because that's offensive, right? Because they could see your legs and your things. So when I was there, I had to be fully, fully clothed. And it 00:39:00was a COP inside of an Afghan compound. So and it was really just a chain link fence that separated you. So there was, there was some degree of risk there. Well, a lot of risk, I guess. And so, so I was yes, I was given that opportunity because of my interactions with the Afghan interpreters prior to that. So I was used to the language barrier, used to using interpreters to communicate, basically.

JONES: Now, how did you interact with this fellow from the, the Afghan army in the sense that where I'm getting at is I assume this was his first time talking to a woman soldier.

BIGGS: Yeah. What I learned there is they didn't they didn't see me as a woman, surprisingly, they saw the rank on my chest. So a lot of my interactions were really tied to the bar that I and they knew that it was different than the soldiers, and I would get that commentary a lot. So it really wasn't an issue interacting with them because, because I again had the rank that I needed that 00:40:00they respected that rank. I think they also respected, again, American support at the time we were doing our best to our, our mission there and the colonel that we worked under his, his thing was, let's work ourselves out of the job. So instead of teaching them how to do it the way that we would do it in America, figure out how do they want to do it here so we can leave and not have to be here forever. So there was a lot of, you know, when they were doing stuff on paper instead of trying to get them on computers for like their inventory and stuff. How do we help establish the what what their current process is, and one of the cool things we did was we hosted a conference for all the logisticians in Afghanistan, got them all to come up to the northern region, which was the first time that they actually got to talk to the, you know, logistician from the west or from the east, because that just because of the mountains and the barriers to trans--you know, to go from tribe to tribe or whatever the case, to bring them all in the same room together and let them start talking, and we just facilitated and sat back, let them, let them build and establish their country.

JONES: When you were dealing with this person from the Afghan army, were you still in the same part of northern Afghanistan that you had been?

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: Okay. So is the overall was your experience and relationship with the Afghan officer favorable?

BIGGS: Yeah. Yeah, I think it was good.

JONES: Were there any negative experiences with him?

BIGGS: No, I mean not, not from our interpersonal standpoint. It was interesting when he got, we lost him for a while where he just disappeared because he was getting audited by the Interior Ministry, and so he was in Kabul and he came back and lost some weapons and some trucks and asked if we could replace them. So it was it was interesting just to like, it was hard for me because I'm a very natural, I grew up in a farming community, very hard worker. So to take that 00:42:00step back where you couldn't work as hard and not in a negative way against the Afghans in any way, because we saw this with the Germans too, as far as their, the way that they look at work, you know, where we couldn't work on Fridays, for instance, because that was their holy day, or like during Ramadan you shut down. So there was a lot of stuff where we had to not meet with him to be respectful of their culture, of, you know, what was going on in their country.

JONES: Now, when you say certain equipment was lost, okay, could you expound on that?

BIGGS: So our goal was to make them less corrupt. So we knew that there was going to be corruption because because it was Afghanistan. They have a very tenured history of different insurgents, more or less, which is essentially we were, coming into their country and trying to give them the resources. So we don't know what happened to it. You know, did it go to his friends in Kabul? Who knows? So, so that was so you just kind of accepted that, right, and how do you, yeah, how do you make them better at keeping track of their supplies or staying 00:43:00accountable or minimizing the corruption?

JONES: Um, how, how many pieces of equipment were lost?

BIGGS: About 25.

JONES: 25 pieces of equipment. And are we talking vehicles?

BIGGS: Yes. So we gave them Ford Rangers is what the US military was providing to the Afghan National Army at the time. So he lost a couple of those and then he lost some of his weapons.

JONES: And by weapons. We're talking everything from small arms to--

BIGGS: Just mostly small arms.

JONES: Small arms, okay. Was, anecdotally, was your experience the same as other logistical officers in the country at that time?

BIGGS: No, no. So I yeah, well and especially with my rank. So they, we--I mean, there were other officers, or other people mentoring the Afghans, but they had 00:44:00went to the Special Forces training at Fort Bragg first. I did not, because at that time the combat exclusion law was still in place, so there is minimal documentation. I did get it on my [OAR??], but other than that, we, we didn't necessarily document it because I don't know that I was actually allowed to be doing what I was doing, basically because I was a female and that was an infantry role. So a lot of that fell under the 82nd, or those legacy units, I guess. So yeah, so, so I was able to do it. I'm very grateful for it, but it was very unique to me at the time.

JONES: When this equipment was lost on your watch, did you, did you pay a price with your superiors because of that?

BIGGS: No.

JONES: Okay. Um, okay. So anything else that you want to tell us about that experience?

BIGGS: Yeah. No, I think, I think that was really it. Again, I think overall learned a lot and was really grateful for the opportunity to deploy, to be quite honest, because it wasn't what you see in war movies, right? It really was different than what I had perceived it to be while I was there. So it was truly trying to help and collaborate and create a better a better world really, for everyone. So that was very cool from my perspective.

JONES: While you were there, were there any occasions where you were in harm's way?

BIGGS: Um not, not consciously. There was one time where I had to we our engineer unit down in Kandahar region. We had weapons that we had to get. So I was able to fly throughout the country basically to get all their 9mms to bring 00:46:00them back up to the north because they were going back to Germany. And that was cool because you literally just, I just had to show my I.D. and add myself to the manifest and I could fly. I took like four different planes to get down to Kandahar, and it was you arrive, you go through security with your weapon and everything in check, and on the way back, I had a tough box full of 9mms that came back with me. So when I was in Kandahar, the tent that I was at, or that I had to sleep in, in the transient tenting, that was attacked like a day prior to me arriving but that, I mean that was about it. So nothing necessarily directly per se because yeah, it was--At the time we considered it being like struck by lightning. If it happens, it happens. It wasn't something that you could control with indirect fire.

JONES: So you were flying, it sounds like, all over the country?

BIGGS: Yeah of Afghanistan. So I went down to Kabul, and Kandahar, and up to, you know, Marmal and, yeah it was pretty cool.

JONES: You, you covered pretty much all of Afghanistan at one point.

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: And you were there for about a year?

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: And during that year, let's talk about the folks back in the Manitowoc area who assumed that they were incredibly worried about your safety.

BIGGS: Yeah, I think it was a lot easier for me to be there than to be like, and especially now that I'm a mom, like, I couldn't imagine what my mom was experiencing or even my mother-in-law for that matter, because they couldn't contact us. They didn't really know what was going on. And of my unit, my home unit was out of Germany. So it's not like they had a local. They couldn't call to Germany either to ask questions per se. So.

JONES: So how often did you, were you able to communicate with them?

BIGGS: So I would call home about weekly. My husband didn't talk to us like that entire time, so. Yeah. So I would, I would just check in and make sure that they 00:48:00knew everything was okay. And we had, there was Facebook, I guess, at the time too, but our, we didn't have internet in my, like I didn't have internet while I was there. Some soldiers paid for it, but I didn't. So I couldn't get on social medias or on the internet to communicate. The pages wouldn't load, because it was too slow from that way. Even Packer games were so miserable because I couldn't watch them and so I could, there was one app where you could see the XXs and OOs down the field and it was, it was hard to know the first time that the Packers played the Bears, and it didn't actually broadcast on AFN, and I was so shocked because I had never, never been anywhere where the Packer and Bear game wasn't on that year.

JONES: [laughs]

BIGGS: And so it was it was difficult.

JONES: But when you did talk to them, it was always you calling them?

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: And you had a cell phone that enabled you to do that?

BIGGS: No, I would call from our office phone.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: We had one phone in our office that could call back to the States.

JONES: Well. So when your time there in country was was winding down, did you continue to to travel as much toward the end as you had earlier?

BIGGS: Yeah. I mean, we worked right up until the day we left type of thing. So I did at the time, because it was a year long deployment, I did get an R&R, so we came back home. Yeah, my husband, I were able to take R&R at the same time. So we met in Kuwait to get back to Wisconsin to take our R&R.

JONES: Okay. So you both came back to Wisconsin at one point during your deployment?

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: Okay.

BIGGS: And there was one point because he was at a different camp, so it would take two gun trucks and six soldiers if I wanted to see him. And because I didn't hear from him at all, I actually showed up at his camp one day with a 00:50:00cell phone, and I was like, "Here is--it is." And he wasn't there. So I was checking into his company, and it was a soldier, and we had different last names at the time yet because we had done the legal marriage, but we hadn't done the formal wedding yet, and so I showed up and I was like, "can you give, you know is Lieutenant Biggs here?" And they're like, "no, ma'am, like, can I help you?" And I was like, "well, I'm his wife. Can you give him this phone?" And they're like, "we've never had a wife, like, find their husband in Afghanistan." But because we--he had his own missions, he was worried about he had his own platoon because he was also a platoon leader. So really, the only way I knew what he was up to was on the CENTRIXS [Combined Enterprise Regional Information Exchange System] or on SIPR [Secure Internet Protocol Router Network]. So on the secret Web site where I could see our brigade's convoys and kind of what missions everyone was up to is how I would, like, keep in touch with him, but otherwise we didn't get to communicate really that entire year either, because we were both just really focused on the missions that we had.

JONES: I assume it was uncommon for a husband and wife to be in Afghanistan serving in the U.S. military at that time?

BIGGS: That's correct. Yes

JONES: Are you aware of any other couples that were similarly situated?

BIGGS: Um not officers, but so when I--but there were soldiers that were in our company. She, the wife was actually pregnant, as we were deploying, and so she, her husband deployed while she was pregnant. So their first baby was already on the way. She gave birth to the baby, and then at that time, we only got six weeks maternity leave. So six weeks later, she was in-country with her husband while baby had to be raised by grandma and grandpa, because you couldn't--she had to--they both had to deploy. They were both needed. So that was when I determined that I didn't want to stay in the military after kids. Once I saw that six weeks after giving birth to a child, you can be in Afghanistan. So.

JONES: What are some other experiences that you had in Afghanistan that we have not covered already?

BIGGS: I think the only other thing that really was cool there was, because we 00:52:00were there under ISAF, so the International Security Assistance Force, so we actually fell under a German general. So there was a lot of collaboration amongst the countries. So when I had to do--we had to do, the infantry unfortunately didn't know how to order supplies, so they were upset,they ran out of food right before Thanksgiving, but we couldn't do any ground convoys because the roads were washed out. So we actually used a Canadian helicopter, and we sling loaded pallets of food, so you put them in a sling and attach them underneath the helicopter, and so, then the helicopter flew it over to the infantry unit. So they had food for Thanksgiving. So that was really cool. And then we had to teach them how supply chain works of, you know, if you order it, we'll bring it. If you don't order it, you're not going to get it type of thing. So to make sure that they were always taken care of it in the future.

JONES: When you were engaged in those logistical, in that logistical work, tell 00:53:00us about a normal day for you. I assume it. Are we talking about it, an 18 hour workday for you, for example?

BIGGS: Yeah. So I didn't, I actually get sick for a while there because I forgot to sleep when I was in Afghanistan, because I would do my admin office work, right, because I was still an officer. So I still had the same reporting, the same-- we would joke that it almost felt like you were in garrison to some degree, because you still had to do the same regular military training. We had our soldiers doing PT tests, we had them doing all of the computer training that they have to do online. You still had to meet all of the basics of being military that you would if you were back garrison or if you were back stateside. So all of that stuff I would take care of during the day, during a normal business day, per se, and then afterwards, because my soldiers were on night shift, I would go out to the entry control point with them and just touch base, see how they're doing, kind of get their feedback or what are they experiencing them, update them on what's going on with the company. We didn't know how long 00:54:00we were deployed for, So throughout our deployment they were unsure if it was going to be a 9-month deployment, a 12-month deployment, maybe a 15-month deployment. So we didn't really have that end date while we were in-country. So it was kind of last minute when President Obama did the reduction in force that some of that was cut short. The rest of us stayed for a year, but it was very unclear, and that uncertainty is obviously difficult for people to manage, or to manage with their families back home of how long are you actually going to be gone for?

JONES: So you were doing the logistical work well into each evening?

BIGGS: Absolutely, yeah. Absolutely.

JONES: Of the 40 plus people in your platoon, I assume some were rotating in and out during your one-year--

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES --service time there.

BIGGS: That's correct, yep.

JONES: About how many rotated in or out?

BIGGS: Um so I got about three new soldiers while we were deployed, and then we 00:55:00would have to like one went back for dental. Like if they had a medical thing that came up, I would have to send them home, basically. Again, it's not always necessarily combat medical. Sometimes, like I said, it was like that soldier with his back where he passed out and defecated himself because his back just didn't work anymore, or he lost feeling in his legs. There was one that had a dental issue and some of those type of emergencies. There was one that thought that she may have been pregnant, so then we had to send her back. Yeah. So there was a couple. Our commander went back on medical, so I had to, like, ship--pack up all their stuff to send home to because they unexpectedly didn't come back to country.

JONES: Other than the medical issues, what other type of issues did you have to deal with essentially as a supervisor?

BIGGS: Uh, rumors back in garrison. So if there were, so if the spouses--so 00:56:00spouse misconduct back in Germany would make its way into country and would create interpersonal conflicts, or frustrations, or concerns. Um so we would have to navigate that, of you're not there, you can't take care of your family. They may or may not be doing things that are not--that you couldn't do as a soldier, nor should you do ethically. Um but, but they were happening. And so you would have to kind of clean that up.

JONES: Well, tell us how you cleaned it up.

BIGGS: Um, so like my one soldier, when he found out, he threw his well locker and was really angry. And then the first sergeant called, they would have extra duty. So we would still do UCMJ [Uniform Code of Military Justice] in in theater. So we would, they, they could get chapter, they could get loss of pay, it was the same as you would back in garrison. We would, yeah just process it the same way administratively if they had behavioral issues or misconduct, basically.

JONES: Was there one instance or one circumstance that occupied a great deal of 00:57:00your time? In that respect?

BIGGS: No, not really. I mean, it was, again, kind of just business as usual as a platoon leader to try to keep your soldiers healthy, happy, And, you know, being able to focus on the mission was really what obviously the objective was. Yeah. And so that's kind of what we did there.

JONES: So you worked essentially doing logistical work right up until the time your your one-year service was up in Afghanistan?

BIGGS: Yeah, I could most, again, except for that mentorship advisory role that I took the second half. I would just do that, again, during the day and then my soldiers at night and I just didn't sleep because I was young. I didn't have to.

JONES: Mm hmm.

BIGGS: Yeah.

JONES: And so then did you have to--did your replacement come while you were 00:58:00still there?

BIGGS: They did. Yeah. So we were training them as we were trying to leave, basically. So.

JONES: And was your replacement a male?

BIGGS: Yes.

JONES: Okay. And how did, did you have a positive reaction to your replacement?

BIGGS: Yeah. I mean, I think he was fine. Again, they were--they were a bit--I think they wanted it to be more of a combat deployment, so and they were National Guard. So I think maybe they're training. I don't know what their training was. I guess cause again, technically I didn't have training to get to Afghanistan either, but they really they wanted to go and get in it and have it be a combat deployment, and that really wasn't what our mission was while we were on ground. It was really a how do we win the hearts and minds? How do we 00:59:00start building the infrastructure in the company here, or the country so we can leave? And I don't think they had that perspective per se, and that's not a detriment to him. I had a couple soldiers that had that same mentality that were carrying that baggage from previous deployments of friends that got injured, or got attacked, or whatever the case was. And those soldiers, we just remove their weapons, or we put them in the office. They weren't allowed to go on convoys, because if you don't have the discipline that we need for you to be out in the in the local populace, we're going to keep you back on camp.

JONES: How often did that happen?

BIGGS: That was pretty. I mean, I probably had about three soldiers that we had to do that for where they just couldn't get past their previous deployments, basically, because, again, this is 2011. I mean, some of them were on their sixth deployment. So that's a that's a lot of change of missions and a lot of different. What is your mission on the ground when you're there?

JONES: So your mission, from the perspective of of a layperson was not was 01:00:00really to, as you put it, to to win hearts and minds.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: And I can see why there would be people within the military who would be looking for something very different than that.

BIGGS: Correct.

JONES: Okay. And as an example, I take it that your husband was serving in a unit that was very different from yours?

BIGGS: Yeah, but, but not really. So the engineers were, the engineers down south, they, they took a lot of--they had a lot of casualties, injuries because they, they were hit with IEDs [Improvised Explosive Devices] all the time. But he was not--so he was actually attached to their headquarters, the engineering unit, the headquarters, and he had a platoon of military police. Again, kind of 01:01:00those misfits as well, because, because, again, our brigade wasn't designed for current, the current environment on the ground in Afghanistan. It was a legacy structure, basically from World War Two that didn't apply to Afghanistan. So, so we had to make do with titles, but people, and where do we need the people? So his was more of he provided the security force for like what my role was. So as when I was out there mentoring the Afghan, there was a security force who would be the ones that would drive us to where we needed to go or that would pull security so we could have the conversations we needed to have. So his was more of that. A lot of convoys throughout the country then to find the Afghans that his colonel at the time was mentoring.

JONES: Okay. But again, in your company, you did not have any casualties while you were there, correct?

BIGGS: We did not, nope.

JONES: So then when your time--well, anything else that I haven't covered about 01:02:00Afghanistan that you would like to tell us?

BIGGS: No, that's about it.

JONES: So then you went back to Germany. Tell us about that.

BIGGS: Yeah. So when we got back to Germany, we learned that our brigade was deactivating, which meant that as soon as we got our equipment from Afghanistan, once it arrived back into country, we had to turn it all in back to the government because our brigade was no longer going to exist. So with that, you're trying to get rid of all of the equipment that's off of your, it was called an MTOE [Modified Table of Organization and Equipment]. So what, you were authorized by the government to have, we had to get rid of that. But also our soldiers, we had to find different homes for them throughout the military. So a lot of them then were tran--PCS-ing [Permanent Change of Station] basically, directly back to the states, or wherever their new unit would be. So we were responsible for processing all of that. But in addition, I had tore my Achilles tendons while I was leaving Afghanistan, so I couldn't really walk. Um so I was trying to do all these things, but it was incredibly painful at the time because 01:03:00I couldn't walk. So it was a lot of work.

JONES: How did that happen?

BIGGS: I don't know. I was rucking and it was gravel, and I just, I felt them pop and I heard them pop and. Yeah, and it hurt. And then it sucked because there's a stigma in the military, right, of pregnancy. So there's a huge stigma around people that are pregnant, and when you pull your Achilles tendons, you're not supposed to wear boots. So I was given a soft shoe profile, which meant I could wear tennis shoes, but I refused to wear them because I didn't want people to think I was pregnant. Because tennis shoes make you look pregnant for some reason in the military. So. So I wore the boots anyways, which was not helpful.

JONES: So how long were you in Germany?

BIGGS: So I ended up, we--I was able to stay in Germany and I went over to an air defense unit. I had to interview for them, though, because they were not authorized a logistician or my position there. So yeah, they created a job for me, more or less. So I could stay in Germany.

JONES: What part of Germany were you in this time?

BIGGS: Kaiserslautern. So it was about an hour east of Baumholder.

JONES: Okay, so the same general part of the, of the country?

BIGGS: That's correct. Yeah.

JONES: So. Were you still doing logistics in Germany?

BIGGS: Um no. So my job there then was the XO [executive officer] of their headquarters and headquarters battery for the air defense unit.

JONES: Tell us about that.

BIGGS: Yeah. So I had the supply room. Your personnel, anyone that supports a regular company. The difference was that because it was the headquarters company, it was--our our colonel or that slot, the headquarters was authorized a one star billet position. So it was being held by a full bird colonel. But technically, it was. It could have been a one star if it was wartime. So I didn't know anything about air defense. So I had to learn a lot about what air defense was because I wasn't trained in that. I had just come from an infantry brigade. So I learned about that. But then because I was the headquarters, I was 01:05:00the one that had to sign the leave form for that full bird colonel, for instance, or any of the colonels that were in those staff positions. So they had to get a first lieutenant, it was a first lieutenant signature, and then the general signature enabled for them to go on leave. So and that was that was good in the way that I was actually able to enforce their standards. Because at this point, we are back from a deployment. We are on dwell time, which means when you get back from a deployment, you're supposed to have a year where if you were, you're not deployable again. Our unit was doing a training exercise in Israel, though, so the air defense was going to do a training exercise in Israel. So I had to get them ready to get all of our equipment and our people to Israel for this training exercise. But--

JONES: Could you go into more detail about that experience?

BIGGS: Yeah. So so it was really the air defense was supporting Israel because they're our ally in the Middle East. So we would go there to collaborate with 01:06:00them to kind of practice what that, what would happen if we actually needed to go to deploy there to help them in the event that they were going to take, you know, missiles from whoever they would take missiles from, basically. So so that was interesting because I didn't know, like we got to the point where we were supposed to send the test missiles over to Israel and like that morning of the first sergeant comes up, he's like, ma'am, did you did you get the clearance? And was like, what are you talking about? Apparently to ship missiles, you need diplomatic clearance from the Pentagon for every country are going over. So I had no idea that was the thing. So it was a lot of learning by by trial, by error type of thing. So.

JONES: How long was the process of sending the missiles to Israel?

BIGGS: So we were on a 72 hour notice basically. So that unit was on a 72 hour prepare to deploy order, basically. So so when they were needed, we had three 01:07:00days. And so that's what we were practicing as, hey, Pentagon says you need to be there. You have three days to get all your people and all your stuff there, how are you going to do it? So that training exercises gave us an opportunity to see can we meet this really, really quick timeline if you need boots on the ground that quickly.

JONES: Did you meet the timeline?

BIGGS: We did, yeah.

JONES: Okay. And so did you ever have to leave Germany as part of that, that process?

BIGGS: I did not.

JONES: So you stayed there and did everything with phones and computers, I take it?

BIGGS: Yeah. So I was considered the rear-d commander, but it was interesting. So I was supposed to be the XO, so the executive officer, working under an air defense captain for that, my--the captain ended up getting a DUI in Germany, so he was relieved of command, and so then I was actually the main battery commander for that exercise. But I was still only a first lieutenant working 01:08:00with lieutenant colonels and generals and stuff. So very, very, very young obviously, for the position that I was holding, but it was interesting because, like when the generals would come in, they see my combat patch, and so although I was young for my experience, they weren't used to seeing someone in that position that had already deployed. So you instantly get that credibility because now you have this visual thing that you, you contributed to the military basically, you have some experience.

JONES: You mentioned being a first lieutenant. When did you become a first lieutenant?

BIGGS: In Afghanistan.

JONES: What, halfway through the year?

BIGGS: Yeah, [inaudible]. I think at the time it was a year and a half in, so it would have been November of 2011. So.

JONES: Pivoting back to when the captain got in hot water, he's in essence, relieved of his duties.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: And then you were, in essence, assuming his responsibilities without the rank.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: And how long did that take, or how long were you doing that?

BIGGS: Oh, it was about nine months.

JONES: Really?

BIGGS: The replacement, yeah, I don't know, well because, again, they were we were in the middle of a training exercise. They had a lot going on, and I think because I was doing an okay job, so I was doing well. So they, they didn't have a reason to replace me that quickly.

JONES: Okay. What ended up happening with the captain. Do you know?

BIGGS: Yeah. I mean, they put him over at garrison. I'm sure he got a general order of recco--a general--the general would have to put a note in his record and I'm sure he got kicked out because, at that time, they were doing a reduction of force of officers. So and they were trying to get, it was an imbalance basically, of different rank. So I'm sure he's no longer in the military.

JONES: So you were doing his work for about nine months?

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: And you did his work right up until the time you left Germany.

BIGGS: No um, so I did his job. Then they did find a new commander and he came in. So I kind of got him [inaudible] but he was he was phenomenal. He was probably the best commander that I've ever worked under. So that was great cause I could do a lot. I was able to learn a lot from him as far as leadership skills, and he had come from one of their other batteries, so he had already done his command time. So this was his second command position.

JONES: In Germany?

BIGGS: In Germany. Yeah. So and then I guess the other thing that was cool about being an officer was although you have rank, it's different, right? Because you're all officers at the end of the day. So. So we would do what we called, when we got back from Afghanistan, we did, when we were in Germany, we before our unit deactivated, we would do a thing called Tuesday night dinners, and so 01:11:00basically one of my friends had went to West Point and he didn't know how to make scrambled eggs. And so I was like [Graham??], you're going to die if you don't know how to make scrambled eggs. I was like, we will teach you how to cook. So that evolved into all the officers, every Tuesday would get together and we would switch dinner, we would basically have dinner parties. So it was really building that camaraderie, and then we extended that over to Germany, or over to our new unit. So it built the camaraderie of those the officers, really it was captain and below, within the unit. So the captain that ended up replacing me would come to these dinner parties basically, so we so we got to know him at a personal level, aside from just that, you know, subordinate leadership perspective.

JONES: When you were in Germany this time, were you one of the few women officers?

BIGGS: Yes. I don't know that there were any other women officers in my unit at that time, actually.

JONES: Any negative experiences in Germany, being the only woman?

BIGGS: Um not, not there. Again, I mean, I did it--like I said, I had a lot of, where when I, when we got in my old unit where I would be, you know be made fun of if you're pregnant or that even though I wasn't. So you had those type of things that just were undesirable, but I mean, it was fine, so you get over it. My saving grace was that, and this is where I think my Achilles hurt me so bad, is I was very competitive and I was competitive with my husband, starting already back in our ROTC days, that I made sure that, when it came to physical--PT in the mornings or physical fitness, that I could beat the guys. So I wanted to be able to run faster than them. I wanted to be able to do more pushups than them. I wanted to be physically stronger than them. So there were times when I was in command during those nine months where my first sergeant be like, ma'am can you please slow down? Like all of all the guys are falling out. And it was more of that. And my soldiers would make comments about that of, oh man, we've never had a woman that could actually run, or an LT, they called me, that could keep up or that could do these. So you had that, and it shouldn't, 01:13:00but it correlated with leadership, basically, at the end of the day, where they knew that I would physically be able to be there.

JONES: During this time was your husband also in Germany?

BIGGS: He was, yep.

JONES: Okay. Same part of the country as you?

BIGGS: Yeah. Yeah. So we were finally able--so after we got back from Afghanistan, we actually got to go back to Wisconsin and get, do our formal wedding, a year later. So we got married, were apart for a full year, and then finally got to do our formal, you know, the white dress, all of that stuff back in Wisconsin with our families, which is really nice. And then he was again, he was an engineer and that same air defense unit was not authorized an engineer, but they brought him over to work in finance. So he was in their G-4 section, so in the logistics division, basically, of the unit managing their finance.

JONES: Okay. So how long were you in Germany then? Second time.

BIGGS: So I was in Germany for a total of three years with one of those years being in Afghanistan. So about two years.

JONES: Okay, So. So after Afghanistan, you went back to Germany and you were there for two years?

BIGGS: Yep.

JONES: Okay. And was the, from your perspective, was the thing with the missiles and was that kind of the high point of the two years in Germany?

BIGGS: Yeah, I mean, I think I think so. The deployment to Israel was interesting. I learned a lot. I think really, I mean, personally, I think the high point was I was pregnant with my first child. So I got pregnant about, well, I guess about nine months before my end--before my due--before my, my contract was going to expire, more or less. So. So being pregnant in Germany was a really cool experience. Being pregnant in the military was interesting in its own way, especially with the bias that I had experienced previously. So getting 01:15:00to overcome that, that was neat. Yeah. And then, and then going through all that, and then having a child born in Germany, and figuring out how to get him back to America, because they wouldn't let us because of the way that my husband and I's orders were. We had a lot of difficulty figuring out how we were going to be able to get my son back to the United States.

JONES: Well, tell us about that.

BIGGS: Yeah. So because we both technically were there on our own individual orders, that we weren't allowed to bring any accompaniments back type of things. We were both there on our own accord, so we ended up having to get an exception to policy from some Air Force colonel or general in order to get my child added to my orders so we could fly back, because I was supposed to fly military back to the United States, but my child was not eligible to, or he would have had to have been Space A or space available, but he was four months old at the time. So like, well I can't send my four-month-old on a plane by himself, but because I was supposed to travel military, I wasn't authorized to travel commercially to 01:16:00even like bring him on a plane by myself, and so we eventually did it. So my, my child and I came back, my husband had to stay because his commitment wasn't up yet there. So he stayed about two months past us. So we came back to America. He finished up his time in Germany and then we both separated from the military and back to Wisconsin.

JONES: That sounds very complicated.

BIGGS: [laughs] Yeah. It's the military, it's fine.

JONES: But you got through it.

BIGGS: We did. And my son is here, and he's nine, and in school in America. So all is good.

JONES: Well, so. Before we leave Germany, anything that you, that I have not covered about your two years in Germany, that you want to, that you want to talk about?

BIGGS: I don't think so. Again. That was a lot of, like I said, learning the logistics. Israel was interesting in the way that while we were there for the 01:17:00training exercise, they, they came under attack, and so General Dempsey at the time, they got the planes coordinated to bring the soldiers back because we were there on a training exercise, so we weren't actually supposed to be there. So we had to leave the weapons there, and as a logistician, that was really difficult for me to know that my weapons are being left in Israel so the soldiers could safely back, make it back to Germany. So.

JONES: How long were you in Israel?

BIGGS: We were there, it was only supposed to be a month long exercise. I think it was like 2 to 3 weeks ultimately.

JONES: Okay. So when your deployment was up, you and your, your son came back. And where is back? Is it, you're talking about the state of Wisconsin?

BIGGS: Yup. Yeah. So again, my four years up in the, were up in the military at that point so my contract and so I didn't go beyond that. So I was actually promoted to captain while I was on my way out of the military basically. Yeah. 01:18:00And we came back to the United States, to Wisconsin, and moved, we had a, we lived with my parents, actually, because I did, because--because I voluntarily separated from the military, there was no transition time. So the only time you had was however much leave you had built up. So as soon as that time was up, you didn't have medical anymore. You didn't have any benefits at all. You weren't getting paid, anything like that. So you had to get back to America, find a job, find a place to live, try to reintegrate, and there just was nothing. So luckily, my parents, I have a very close relationship with my family, so we lived in their house while we tried to figure out even how to get a cell phone back in America. Any of those, like just regular how to exist here.

JONES: Now, am I correct that this was about 2014?

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: Okay. And so you were in the military for ten years.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: '04 to 2014.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: So you were back in Wisconsin getting re--at that point you were formally discharged?

BIGGS: That's correct, yep.

JONES: Okay. And then you were reacclimated to Wisconsin?

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: When did your husband join you?

BIGGS: About two months later. So he also had to stay at my parents. We lived in my parents house with my son because he also didn't have a job. The same thing applied where you, you just were completely done, and it was just kind of a clean break, and you had to figure it out, so.

JONES: Well, what have you done since 2014?

BIGGS: Yeah, so I worked at I ended up working in transportation, so using my military experience, worked at a precast concrete company responsible for the transportation which they built, like the skyscrapers in Chicago, and did, they build buildings basically. So that was really cool. Did that for a couple of years, went over to Johnsonville Sausage, was responsible for their private 01:20:00fleet. So again, working in transportation, working with truck drivers, leadership. And then currently I work at Kohler overseeing their domestic transportation, so responsible for all, not just the private fleet or their own trucking, but partnering with trucking companies to help move our freight throughout the country.

JONES: Very interesting.

BIGGS: So, very grateful for my military experience, because, again, if we rewind, back in college, I was going to school for sociology, so, grateful for the logistics experience, a transportation experience, which gave me those skills to do the career that I'm doing today.

JONES: So essentially, what you've been doing in the private sector with all three companies is logistics.

BIGGS: That's correct.

JONES: Getting product from point A to point B?

BIGGS: Absolutely.

JONES Very interesting. Say, the first company that you mentioned, did it happen to be Advance Cast Stone.

BIGGS: It was not. It was Spancrete, which is now known as Wells. So they're in 01:21:00Valders, Wisconsin, which is my hometown. So it was really nice to be able to come home.

JONES: Okay. Well. That's all I had to ask you. Is there anything that I have not asked you about that you would like to talk about?

BIGGS: Um, no. I mean, I think the only thing that we really didn't cover is really the the relationships, and the peers, and the friendships that you create along the military, so.

JONES: Tell me about that.

BIGGS: So I mentioned earlier my sponsor from Germany, for instance, so she was from North Dakota, small town girl as well. We're still friends today. She moved to Wisconsin, actually, because I lived here. So after I left Germany, she went to Korea and continued her military career, but now she lives here doing, you know, real estate in Milwaukee. So it's cool, though, that camaraderie that you have and especially when you're deployed somewhere, she was in Afghanistan with me as well, obviously, that you build those relationships and that now, given technology, and Facebook, and all of that other stuff, you can continue those 01:22:00relationships even past your military service. I've had soldiers that have reached out to me on Facebook, right, when they were struggling and, you pick up a call and you have to relearn the language, right? Because the one was in Texas and he had that Hispanic accent and I'm in Wisconsin, so you don't hear that very often anymore. So you can still connect with people that you saw throughout your career. And I don't know, I'm really grateful for that. To still be able to have those relationships with people and field advisor, mentor, or again just be friends.

JONES: You're still even after, you know, after all that passage of time, you're still helping them.

BIGGS: Exactly where its become kind of that permanent bond, really, and I think, again, a combat deployment will do that to you. Although, again, we weren't necessarily directly in harm's way and the potential to be was--

JONES: Yeah.

BIGGS: --very evident with our replacement unit, type of thing, and it was still 01:23:00I mean, there were still a lot of crappy parts of it, I guess, that were not fun, or were not, that were really challenging. So I think that, again, that helps you really just establish that repertoire and that trust with each other.

JONES: Well. Thank you very much for your service to our country, and also thank you for agreeing to do this interview for the Wisconsin Veterans Oral History Project.

BIGGS: Absolutely. Thank you.