Oral History Interview with Alecia Braun

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is May 4th, 2023. This is an interview with Alecia Braun, who served in the Army National Guard from 1990 to 1996. Alecia entered the service as Alecia Latin.

BRAUN: Latin.

SPRAGUE: Latin. Sorry. Yes. And this interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at St. Nazianz, Wisconsin for the I Am Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. And no one else is present in the room. Okay, Alicia, where did you grow up?

BRAUN: I grew up on the West Coast. Graduated from high school in Coquille, Oregon.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: And that was where I had originally enlisted as well. Was in Oregon.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Could you tell the audience where Coquille is? Because they may not know. Sure. Sure.

BRAUN: So it's the southern Oregon coast. It's about 2 hours north of California and just a hair inland from the ocean close to Coos Bay.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what did your family do there? Growing up?

BRAUN: My dad was an electrician. My mom was in real estate. And the school that I went to was probably about 400 kids population, a lot of mills and logging families.

SPRAGUE: So the schools you went to are in Cocu?

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what did you have a family background of people that had served in the military or.

BRAUN: My dad was in the Army during during Vietnam, but didn't actually go to Vietnam. He ended up spending his tour in Germany instead.

SPRAGUE: And for the record, what is your father's name?

BRAUN: It's Clarence. Richard. Latin.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And so what what motivated you to join the military and join National Guard?

BRAUN: I probably did it a little different than than some people. I had gone to college first and got my associate's degree and then ran out of money to continue for my bachelor's. So I really did it for the Montgomery GI Bill. I went to the recruiting office and I basically walked in and I said, I would like the easiest and most that you can give me. And and he just looked at me and said, Well, have you graduated from high school? And then when he heard that I had my associates degree, then we sat down and actually talked a little bit more seriously. But I ended up going into supply as a 76 Yankee, 76 Yankee.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you went you had your associate's degree. What was your your family's reaction when you joined the guard?

BRAUN: I think a little surprised at first, but I think they probably felt that it was a good move on my part. There wasn't a lot of additional income for college, and it just happened to also coincide with the very beginning of Desert Storm. So I was actually I had already enlisted and it was being discussed in the news. And then when I was in, it was when it actually happened.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So we're going to get to that. Okay. Let's start. So So you're out of high school. You're in college. Your through your first two years. Where did you go to basic training at?

BRAUN: I basic and we're were both at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. Okay.

SPRAGUE: And coming from Oregon, coastal Oregon, or down south there. Where did you what did you think of Fort Jackson?

BRAUN: The the first shock, I think, was just getting off the plane. I had never been in that heat and humidity before. And it was almost like a wave that hits you. It kind of comes over you all at once. And then I had never dealt with fire ants before either.

SPRAGUE: So. So tell me about your experiences with fire ants at base, if you would.

BRAUN: Yeah, basically, any time we were in the sand, whether it was laying down for any kind of training, I remember one time there was a thunderstorm that was coming through, and so they made everyone just lay down out in the field. There were always fire ants.

SPRAGUE: What were some of the other experiences that. You remember that stick out in your head. First from basic training.

BRAUN: You know, basic training coming from a very small town with very few minorities. It was very different. And I would have to say I loved every minute of it. I loved going to church and seeing the different types of. The different types. I mean, it's all still one religion, but the different types of aspects of it, I guess the different things that we learned during basic training, it was it was all new to me. I was I think I was very naive going into it and didn't really know what to expect. And I enjoyed all of it immensely to the point where I really thought I was going to come back out and go active duty. But then I didn't.

SPRAGUE: Would you have had that option or was your enlistment as a Guardsman or.

BRAUN: No, you do have that option, but you have to come back because it was state funded instead of federally funded. You have to come back for at least six months. So then, of course, during that six months, life changes happen or, you know, you change your mind basically. Yeah, but no, that that would have been an option.

SPRAGUE: Huh? So what made you not there? There was something that happened that later down the road you decided I didn't want to be on active duty.

BRAUN: Well, because I ended up I still think I knew in the back of my mind I wanted it to be my career. And so I was able to find a full time job in the National Guard.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: And unfortunately, again, the funding was an issue. And so I was at a property book office in Clackamas, Oregon, which is up by Portland. And they were having there wasn't an open position for me. So they were having to find different ways to fund the position. So I would work for two months. And then they sent me to Fort Lewis, Washington for two months, and then I would come back and work for two months. And I think I ended up going to Fort Lewis a couple of different times just to be able to keep getting paid and try and keep that fulltime job.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So we're going to come back to the property back office. Okay. But we'll wrap up the let's wrap up. So with basic, did you remember were you training with both genders, both men and women, or was it what type of thing?

BRAUN: Not not a lot. It was almost they kept us pretty segregated. When we were only a couple of weeks in, there was there was a concert that they allowed two people from each of the different platoons to go to, and that ended up being both men and women attending. And somehow my punk buddy and I were the ones that were picked to go, and that was probably one of the only times that we really did anything with the men that were in Platoon was close to us.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Anyone from Basic who became a lifetime friend?

BRAUN: I have one Facebook friend.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: But she's out in California. Okay.

SPRAGUE: Well, yeah. And any particular digs, drill instructors that you remember from basic that you like have bad thoughts about, they're like.

BRAUN: You know what? Not at all. I mean, you know, there were there were two female instructors that were really tough.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

BRAUN: And then our platoon sergeant, for some reason had kind of taken a liking to me. And so then when the others were a little too rough, then he would, you know, kind of stand up for me a little bit. But, you know, like I said, I think for the most part, I really enjoyed it.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. You're also at Jackson for HIIT unit supply specialist. And you also said on your IRF, did you acquire or did you train later to become a unit clerk or is that part of the 76?

BRAUN: Yeah, no, I did actually train. Later on I went to a school in Warrenton, Oregon, and got the unit clerk M os.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: I think it was in 92. No, I don't remember what it was except me.

SPRAGUE: I think you might be right too. And I want to say, having an I'm an Army veteran, I want to say it's an all Al's clerk. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm not in supply but all's clerk or that it was the unit supply system, which is.

BRAUN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: I could be wrong. It's been a couple of decades, maybe more. Okay, so that explains that. How long was your it just out of curiosity?

BRAUN: I think they were both two months. I think basic was the eight weeks and I think it was eight weeks.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What was things? How was the discipline between? Did it change between basic and HIIT and how you were treated as a soldier?

BRAUN: Yeah, it was definitely more about the schooling and about the probably the a little bit more knowledge, I guess, based versus all of the different disciplines that you learn during basic training. Although I did end up maxing my p t test during HIIT versus, you know, basic training. You're just really pushing, you know, pushing, pushing, pushing. But it took it took me three, 3 to 4 months to to really be able to do what I needed to do.

SPRAGUE: So for the listeners, why don't you explain kind of they don't know you and I know what maxing the p t test means.

BRAUN: So because I was a little bit older, my standards were just a little bit less. But you had to run the two miles and I had to do it in 14 minutes. And then it was push ups and sit ups and in 2 minutes each. And I think it was 70, 70 push ups and 90 sit ups maybe. Wow. It was a lot. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So if you went off the extended scale, you'd be probably way over 300. That would be my guess. That's. Wow. Okay, cool. So what other things in terms of 80 leadership mentorship experiences that you had, things that you learned there? Boy.

BRAUN: I don't remember a whole lot about it, to be honest. I remember one of the drill sergeants there was pushing me to be one of the platoon leaders, and then there was another drill sergeant that didn't think I should because I was in the National Guard. I think they saved some of those positions more for the active Army people versus what you could actually maybe do. I don't know. It was kind of it was kind of a weird a weird scenario. And I think if I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now, I probably would have joined the reserves or gone active duty just because the treatment was a little bit different.

SPRAGUE: So that was a different time period and that was the whole. Yeah. So you said you'd rather be on active duty or a reservist, but not a Guardsmen and that go back help for the listeners, flush out what you're hinting at there. Because I grew up in that era and I'm like, I know what you're talking about, but I want to hear it from you.

BRAUN: Right. Right.

SPRAGUE: Nothing against Guardsmen.

BRAUN: No, no. But I don't think that a lot of times the active duty gave them the respect that they deserved as well. You know, we were doing all of the same things, but they tended to I went in because of my because I had that little bit of college behind me. I actually went in as a C, so an E, three rank, and anyone else that had the higher rank was usually given more responsibility. But as soon as they found out that I was National Guard, then sometimes they would pull some of that responsibility back again.

SPRAGUE: Hmm. Did you ever find yourself during basic or 80 pulling rank on the recruits or privates around you?

BRAUN: No. No. I tried to stay under the radar as much as possible.

SPRAGUE: You were told? Yeah, I hear you. So tell me about finding out about Desert Storm while you were at it.

BRAUN: There were a lot of people in my same situation where they had really just joined for probably the the Montgomery GI Bill. There were a lot of people that were very upset. There were tears. There were. I remember a couple people making the comment that I didn't enlist for this. I only enlisted for college money. Well, no, You know, you sign the paper, you enlist for the whole thing. Yeah. And I guess I guess I didn't really know what to make of it, but I wasn't probably as I wasn't emotional about it either. I guess I just knew, you know, it was what it was. And that's what we signed up for. And.

SPRAGUE: So you would agree with that, that the expectation was that if you were on Guard or reserve duty, maybe that you would not be activated or not? I think coming out of the Cold War maybe that a lot of people thought that.

BRAUN: Right. And I do think that's true. I think there is probably a little bit of safety felt by only being a reservist or a National Guard member. And now we know that that's not true. And when I went back to my unit after 80, there were some people from my National Guard unit that enlisted active duty just to go over. So.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So you would have been an 80 and some point late 1990 or early 91 to have the Desert Shield Desert Storm thing take place. But you weren't deployed from it. You came back to Oregon, correct?

BRAUN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So you would have been in Oregon and early 91?

BRAUN: Yes, roughly.

SPRAGUE: And that was Oregon National Guard cadets. And I want to say, just so we have it for the record, it you wrote it down. And I think it's it what the unit was. Tell me what the unit name was.

BRAUN: It was the 41st separate Infantry Brigade, and they have since been disbanded. I don't think they exist anymore. But they're I guess if anything in the world were to have happened, they were the going to be the first to be called up to go to, oh, gosh, what was it now? I don't remember. But I know that when I came here, I was surprised to hear that they're there first here with the field artillery was going to be Korea.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. With the 32nd, maybe, and 20th.

BRAUN: This here, It was the 50 seconds.

SPRAGUE: That's right. My bad. Sorry. Young unit and reserve Guard oak and oak. Out of curiosity, out of the 41st. Which company or were you? What unit were you within that brigade.

BRAUN: So. So two different. Well, I actually belonged to one out of Portland, but I was doing all my drills with an engineering battalion in North Bend, Oregon.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And do you remember that unit's name? It's okay if you don't.

BRAUN: Yeah, I don't.

SPRAGUE: They were out of North Bend, Oregon, but they were part of the 41st.

BRAUN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And that was that the property office you worked out of?

BRAUN: Nope. The property office was up towards Portland.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: Where? And that had actually more to do with the actual brigade headquarters.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah, Maybe it was the headquarters company or. Yeah. Yeah, something like that. Headquarters. Headquarters, company. And that was No. Help me out on this. You were drilling as a Guardsmen at that point, right? But then you also said later you went on active duty or partial or. Help me out with that.

BRAUN: Well.

SPRAGUE: So I can understand it.

BRAUN: Yeah. So there was there was a time when I was living closer to North Bend. And so if you were a certain distance away from where you were assigned for your drilling, you could actually drill at the place that was closest to you. So the engineering unit had no women that were assigned there because it was still considered an infantry type.

SPRAGUE: Combat arms unit.

BRAUN: Right.

SPRAGUE: What did they think about when you showed up and you were drilling with them?

BRAUN: Um, actually, they they were fine. They were all great. And my supply sergeant was wonderful.

SPRAGUE: Wow. Okay.

BRAUN: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was. I ended up doing two different to two weeks of my training as well, But then I was only allowed to be in their battalion area when the rest of the guys went out to bivouac or out to the field, I had to stay behind.

SPRAGUE: So what did you think of that?

BRAUN: Oh, it was boring, I guess, more than anything. You know, they would come back with stories and I would have wished I would have been there. But the supply sergeant and a couple of the others stayed back as well. So it wasn't like I was by myself either.

SPRAGUE: Right. Tell me a little bit about. So while you're in the property book office. Tell me what that consists of and what you do, what what those duties are.

BRAUN: Oh, boy.

SPRAGUE: That's okay. I'm curious. We're curious about it. And not many people have documented that.

BRAUN: Sure, sure. So basically, they their job is to track all anything that the brigade owns. So whether it was motor vehicles or weapons, up to 50 type supply, everything that that somebody has been assigned, they are up there tracking it. So when a supply sergeant at a at a unit says, well, we're missing this, they have to report that and the property book officer will take it off of the property books of that unit, and then they figure out how it's going to be replaced. Mm hmm.

SPRAGUE: So I would imagine a combination of NCOs and maybe an officer or a senior NCO.

BRAUN: Yes, both.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Who would be the property book on their commissioned officer side? Who would.

BRAUN: That be? There was a captain.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Huh? Interesting. Okay. And what were some of the. What was what was drill? What was drill like if there was a regular annual eight? What was that like? If there is such a thing. Yeah.

BRAUN: Well, I think there's was different out there because they were actually either building something, being an engineer unit or they were out as support with some of the tanks. Our our job. Really was just to make sure that they had all of the equipment that they needed.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. Yeah, That's a really important job, because if you don't have the equipment you're doing came over right as the Russians are finding out Ukraine. So while you're drilling and you're with the Oregon National Guard and you're living in Coquille or living.

BRAUN: Well, by then I had moved up towards Salem.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: Because then and then I was commuting back and forth to Clackamas, where the property book office was.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. Whereabouts? Near Salem.

BRAUN: Keizer.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Okay. So on the civilian side, what are you doing here?

BRAUN: Well, that was really it.

SPRAGUE: Oh, that was it. Because you were on active duty?

BRAUN: Well, yeah, it wasn't really considered active duty, but it was my daily job, I guess. Okay, that makes sense. I was always looking for an air job, but never. Never actually got one.

SPRAGUE: Okay. I see. Okay. Huh? Okay. So after that unit, where did you go next or what happened next?

BRAUN: So what happened next? On one of the trips where I was sent to Fort Lewis, Washington. I ended up meeting my first husband, who was from Wisconsin.

SPRAGUE: Oh. Huh.

BRAUN: So then when he. He was getting close to eating. So he came back to this area. He was from two rivers and probably only two weeks in from the time we moved here, I got in contact with the 57th Field Artillery Brigade and transferred everything into two rivers, and they actually had a unit clerk position open. So that was a state technician position. So it was a full time job and it was just one other staff sergeant and myself who worked every day preparing for the monthly drill.

SPRAGUE: And at that point, you were a specialist or a PFC or a.

BRAUN: Specialist.

SPRAGUE: Specialist E-4. Okay. And help me out with this, because I'm still recreating this from 1990. Sure. State technician So you're is that EGR or is that something else?

BRAUN: So it's it's not an AGR. It's it's basically the same thing, except the AGR is federally funded.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: The state technician is paid by the state of Wisconsin.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: Okay. I guess that's.

SPRAGUE: That makes sense. Two different pots of money. Right. So dumb question. So if I walked into your armory or showed up at your armory, I. You'd be, I presume, in uniform or.

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: And I'd see specialist rank and I'd go, Oh, okay.

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay, cool. I just try to understand what what what's going on at Two Rivers? What? I know you're 57th Field Artillery Brigade. What subunit were you in at? Two Rivers?

BRAUN: So that was actually a detachment of the headquarters. Okay.

SPRAGUE: Which number? Which. Did it have a number or is it just detachment? Do you happen to remember?

BRAUN: It was just called the 57th Field Artillery Brigade headquarters. Detachment, I think.

SPRAGUE: Okay, Maybe H.H. Dear Headquarters Detachment. Okay. I was just trying to place it because I was looking at the units that had been in two rivers, two rivers since then, and and trying to put the pieces together. But it was a headquarters detachment. Okay. Yeah, well, you know what? I have to think about this. What was that like preparing that armory or that facility for drill and then having these people show up?

BRAUN: Well, yes. Yeah, once a month. That was the big the big hurrah, really. You know, that was what what you were planning for the whole time. But every day was different. You know, sometimes it was driving a vehicle to a different motor pool to be worked on during the during the month. It could be counting counting equipment. You know, it could be I was in charge of the entire supply room, as well as doing unit clerk stuff. So it was. A little bit of maintenance, a little bit of.

SPRAGUE: You know.

BRAUN: Anything that came down from brigade. And it kind of depended on what the monthly drill was going to be. As far as, you know, what we were going to have to do to prepare for it.

SPRAGUE: So in thinking about this, so you're preparing, you're getting ready for the drills, you're so in this 57th Field Artillery Brigade that was a reserve unit or a Guard unit.

BRAUN: Guard unit.

SPRAGUE: Third unit. Yes. Got to make make sure I'm straight on that. What? So and you're an organic part of that unit, so that's. Yeah. And you're are you're on active duty or state technician duty. So you're actually you're in the army, Tony. You are part of that unit. You're just in a different status of being active, whereas everyone else is drilling or However. What's the correct terminology?

BRAUN: Well, because. Because I was both.

SPRAGUE: You were both.

BRAUN: Yeah. So. So as a state technician, you got paid for the weekdays and then I also got paid for my drill.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: And because it was a headquarters unit, even though it was field artillery, they allowed women in the headquarters company. So again, when it came to the two weeks of training, a lot of times, you know, the women were not out in the field with the field artillery. But they were a little bit better, I think, about having specific jobs assigned for us or different things that we could do. One of the two weeks of training that we did, we actually flew everybody and all of our equipment back out to Fort Lewis, Washington, and trained with some of the active army there.

SPRAGUE: You had said in the pre-interview that that that that that role worked really well for you, it sounded like. Can you comment on that anymore or that position worked out well for you?

BRAUN: It did. I think for several reasons. I think I always felt like, you know, that was what I wanted to do. I wanted it to be my my full time job. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the sergeant that I worked with. And they were very accommodating. I had my first child not not long after I joined the unit. And I was able, even for the first couple of months, to bring the baby to work with me, which at that time was pretty unheard of, and even flew the baby out to Fort Lewis, Washington. And my mother came up from Oregon and stayed and took care of the baby during the day while I was doing the drills. So, yeah.

SPRAGUE: Huh. So in thinking about this, so was there ever a thought of that niche? Worked really well for you? One of the questions that comes to my mind is why not just go back on active duty here? Maybe you covered that ground already and you could.

BRAUN: Yeah, I really would probably have like to have, But it's really hard then as a parent or as and the marriage did not work out. So then I was a single a single mom. However, that was about the time that I decided I wanted to go to officer candidate school.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah. And I saw that.

BRAUN: Yeah. So the our captain or. Well, she wasn't a captain at the time. She was a first lieutenant, was the commander of that unit into reverse. And she was the one who kind of talked me into it, which I was not sorry that she did. It was a very, very good experience as well.

SPRAGUE: If you don't mind, could you share her name with us?

BRAUN: Lieutenant Zeppelin was her name.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And she encouraged you to go with ISIS?

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Yes. I'm thinking in the back of my head. Well, get under the ocean stuff. But I'm also wondering, what do you think about so all the opportunities in the Guard units and you're not allowed to guard and draw with the rest of the unit. Finally today, where women are out in those units, what are your thoughts on that?

BRAUN: I think it's great. I think that's the way it should have been all along.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay. So tell me. Yeah, I'm curious. Tell me about this. So did you have a sense in your head, based upon what your basic training the instructors were saying? And did you ever have an inkling in your head that you'd want to become an officer or that you thought about it? Or.

BRAUN: I'm probably not an officer as much as I. I really probably thought I was going to go the the NCO path.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: And I had been I was signed up for PDC. Was that is that right?

SPRAGUE: Yeah, that's for one LTC.

BRAUN: Yeah. And then that was when I found out I was pregnant. Okay. So. So that all kind of got waylaid a little bit, but the officer candidate school was amazingly difficult and challenging, and I'm very glad that I ended up going that route instead.

SPRAGUE: So we're going to dig into that. So that was tell us where that school was and what it what it's called for the listener.

BRAUN: Okay. So that was at the Wisconsin Military Academy and the officer candidate school itself was almost a full year and a half course because instead of doing it in three months, like active duty would, it was done over monthly drills and then a two week, two weeks in one summer and then two weeks the following summer.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: So it was they were three day drills. It was Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And probably the most demanding part or the part that you had to, you know, not let it get to your head was the fact that every month you were going to go and get yelled at just like you were in basic training all over again. And it was it was really a mindset, I think, more than anything. But again, it was just the challenge of being able to do it. It was it was physically demanding. There was still the running and the push ups and pull ups. And then it was also the different things that you were learning and you had to be able to do cadences and and the schoolwork behind. You know, I want to say it was like very it touched very lightly on military intelligence. You know, it was there was a lot of schooling. There was a nighttime land nap, of course, that if you didn't pass it, you failed the the entire thing. And every again, every time you went, you knew it was going to be something different, that you were going to be learning and also a little demeaning probably at the same time. It was it was a challenge.

SPRAGUE: So help me out with the thought process. You're what are you thinking before you start and get into this? What are you thinking down the road for the future? What are your what are in becoming an officer? But where do you go? What are you where are you going with that?

BRAUN: You know, I wasn't really entirely sure because I know if I knew along the way that if I accepted my commission, I would not be able to keep my full time job in two rivers. The state technician position was only four in CIOs or lower. And I guess I was kind of at the point where I just felt like I would cross that bridge. When I came to it, I didn't really know. I just kind of felt like it was going to be a stepping stone in my career one way or the other.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm.

BRAUN: Ironically, probably about halfway through OCS, they let me know that my position was being terminated down because of downsizing, that they were going to only have one fulltime person at that unit. So you would think that that would kind of help me make that decision, right?

SPRAGUE: Right.

BRAUN: It it made it a little bit more difficult, I think.

SPRAGUE: And so you had gone in as a PFC into OCS, correct? Correct. And then you had.

BRAUN: Well, a spec.

SPRAGUE: For suspension for. Sorry. My bad.

BRAUN: Yep.

SPRAGUE: And tell me about you had talked about this a little bit in the pre-interview about a number of cadets you started out with and how that went down.

BRAUN: Yeah, we started with 60 cadets or candidates and there were 12 women. And by the end of the year and a half, we graduated. 20. And two of them were women. So it was a pretty high attrition rate. And for various reasons that there were some people that dropped out pretty close to the beginning. And then there were different ones that dropped out throughout.

SPRAGUE: So and I assume you were one of the two.

BRAUN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah. And tell me about that. That that feeling getting your bars pinned on you.

BRAUN: The graduation ceremony itself was pretty, pretty amazing. And to, you know, the the one during basic training was to I think it's very easy to get emotional. I mean, I even to this day, get emotional just for the national anthem. But I think that that's why I think you feel those feelings that you remember from from those steps that you've made along the way. Mm hmm. There was the whole swearing in ceremony. Yeah, it's it's a, it's a special thing that, you know, not a lot of other people have have done so.

SPRAGUE: Who was there at your commissioning? Was anyone special there at all?

BRAUN: Only a. My boyfriend at the time who is now my. My husband. Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And did you do the Silver Dollar tradition or not?

BRAUN: Some did. I, I don't remember if I must of. I must have. Okay. But I don't really remember specifically.

SPRAGUE: Okay. You know the tradition I'm talking about. Yeah.

BRAUN: For the. For the first person who salutes you.

SPRAGUE: Yep.

BRAUN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And give them a silver dollar. Yeah. Yeah, It was my grandfather who was a senior NCO. Same same situation, but. Yeah. Well, yeah. Anyways. Okay, so you're now second lieutenant, right?

BRAUN: Well, yes and no. No. So. So here's what happened.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, you go.

BRAUN: You go through the ceremony.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: But you don't officially become a second lieutenant until you go to your officer. Basic course.

SPRAGUE: All right. Okay.

BRAUN: And I did not do that.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay. Help me out.

BRAUN: So. So that would have been in July or August was the graduation ceremony in 96. 96 or 95, probably. Okay. And then with the the changes that were happening with my job and not entirely sure where life was happening, I ended up eating.

SPRAGUE: Oh, okay.

BRAUN: And I just decided to do the civilian life for a while and see what happened. So.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And there was no you didn't have an active duty service obligation like some, so. Oh, cool. So you were just able to exit. And there you go. Right. Cool. And then you didn't stay in a Guard or reserve unit or just IRR? Probably. Or.

BRAUN: Right. Active for two years. Okay.

SPRAGUE: Tell me you know what? You know, did you have any thoughts at that time when you said, hey, I'm getting out or what?

BRAUN: Well, I mean, I had considered I had considered going to my OBC, but at the time, still being a single mom, I really did not know. I didn't have anyone that I could leave my son with. And so that was probably the biggest deciding factor was just. It was going to be, I think, the the lowest amount of time that you could be gone again was between 2 to 4 months. A lot of them were even longer. And I just didn't know how I'd be able to do it.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so what do you do next? You. It's out. You come back to the civilian world. What happens next?

BRAUN: So shortly thereafter, probably six months to a year later, I ended up getting married and ended up having two more kids. Did the stay at home mom thing for a while? And then once my husband and I decided to buy into the family business, went back to work. And now we have a couple of fairly successful businesses.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: And I do. I guess, credit a lot of the things that I learned from my officer candidate school for the things that I've accomplished. I did not go to school for H.R., but the things that I learned as far as you know, how to how to treat others and how to manage others has has been very, very helpful.

SPRAGUE: Well, what other things did you learn about ISIS?

BRAUN: Oh, gosh.

SPRAGUE: They may not always be a parent that transferred. Right. To being a business owner. Right. But they still helped.

BRAUN: Right. I think dealing with it with dealing with personalities is, you know, that's huge because we now we we have 70 employees. And, you know, we have maybe, you know, you have one employee that doesn't get along with another employee and you have to be the mediator. Just, I guess, being able to talk to people and relay what you want them to do in a way that they want to do it. Yeah, I think there's just so many leadership skills that I probably didn't even realize at the time were going to be so beneficial later on.

SPRAGUE: Um. Do you think that you would ever. Was there ever any point where you were sitting? You know, when you're doing these things and you're building your business? Was there ever a thought in your head? Oh, I'll go back. I'll go back and or I'll rejoin the Guard. Reserve or.

BRAUN: You know, I. I really didn't miss it. You miss the people, You miss the camaraderie. You miss, you know, some of some of the actual job and what you're doing. You know, I, I was one that always loved Range Day. And, you know, you know, but again, I think sometimes, you know, it's just that. But life happens and you just I don't know if if the capability for me to have been able to be fully committed at work here and then also be able to give my time back to the guard, if it would have been able to coincide.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Have you used any of your veterans benefits on the civilian side once you got out?

BRAUN: Um, you know, again, that's a place where I think being being National Guard and not being agr, I think are the benefits are few.

SPRAGUE: That's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

BRAUN: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I do not I do not qualify for a lot of the same veterans benefits.

SPRAGUE: Huh. Okay. Yeah, I know they've tried to change some of those laws recently. Yeah. Make adjustments. I mean, do you keep a track of any of the people that you served with?

BRAUN: Um, there are. There are probably about ten people that were in the local guard here that we've all kind of kept in touch as far as, you know, my basic training and not so much. Hmm. But, but yeah, there are, there are a few. And we still see each other on a semi-regular basis.

SPRAGUE: So I understand. Um, do you have any things going on with any veterans organizations?

BRAUN: Not really. I have been in touch with the local American Legion here. And, you know, I know that at some point I would like to join again. Right now, it's just been a little too chaotic. And the other thing I think I would always like to do is, is bartend at the one in Manasquan. So someday.

SPRAGUE: So what you know, when you think about a veteran, what do you think about being a veteran?

BRAUN: You know, it's funny because up until probably about two or three years ago, I really didn't consider myself a veteran. I always felt like that was, I guess, you know, for the for the people that actually served overseas. For people who had seen combat and then the ones who had served full time. And then I did. Well, you asked if I'd been involved with anything. I got involved with a group called The Humble Warriors, and it's an all women's organization that is is more into wellness, I guess, wellness, yoga, eating right. And they are based out of Georgia and Wisconsin. And so after getting to meet and talk and interact with these other women and feeling more like veteran, like I have veteran status, it's meant a lot these last couple of years.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay, I've got to ask. It's me. Well, how do you. What do you do with Memorial Day? How do you think about that?

BRAUN: You know, the city of Manitowoc puts on the best Memorial Day parade, and I probably wouldn't have even known that myself, except my daughter was in it one year for her as Miss Farm Bureau. And so I was driving the car that she was in. And it's the longest parade that Manitowoc has. I don't remember how many. I almost think it was like eight miles. It was a very long parade. And everyone is out there with little flags and big flags. And it was.

SPRAGUE: Wow, I think I'm coming to Manitowoc. It's cool.

BRAUN: It's incredible.

SPRAGUE: It is. Wow. Great. That's incredible. So what do you think your life would be like? Well, if you hadn't served at all, if you hadn't joined the National Guard, where were you? Do you think you would be right now?

BRAUN: I definitely would not be in Wisconsin.

SPRAGUE: I can I can agree with the statement. I hear you.

BRAUN: You know, I yeah, I really don't know for sure where I would be, but I'm I am assuming I would still be in Oregon working maybe as a travel agent. That's what I always thought I would want to do. I yeah, I guess I'm not exactly sure, but it was. It was the National Guard that brought me here, so.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what motivated you to do this interview?

BRAUN: I think this the whole concept of the I am not invisible is just a whoever thought of it. Genius.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

BRAUN: See, I told you I wasn't going to cry, but now I'm.

SPRAGUE: Going to you go.

BRAUN: I guess I just kind of feel like women, for the most part, don't get the respect that they deserve for being in the military. And. And I feel like, you know, there's a lot of women that accomplished a lot more than I did and did a lot more than I did. And they deserve the recognition.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. Okay. Did we miss anything else that you'd like to cover?

BRAUN: No, I don't think so.

SPRAGUE: You know that I have to backtrack a little bit. That is the purpose of the I'm Not invisible program is to recognize women service. We've been doing it for four years now in the state of Wisconsin. And it's it's been incredible. I'll say that I'm biased, of course, but I love the program and it's been great for a lot of people. Okay. Well, then we're going to close up the interview. And thank you for your service from one Army veteran to another.

BRAUN: Thank you.

SPRAGUE: This concludes the interview.

[Interview Ends]