Oral History Interview with Sandra R. Pharis

[Interview Begins]

HEALEY: Okay, we're ready to start this interview. And today is May 18th, 2023. And this is an interview with and I'm gonna ask you to state your full name, please.

PHARIS: Sandra Ruth Pharis.

HEALEY: And spell your last name, please.

PHARIS: P as in Paul, H as in Henry, A-R-I-S.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Pharis.

HEALEY: And you usually go by Sandy, is that correct?

PHARIS: Yes, please.

HEALEY: All right. This interview is being conducted by Ellen Healy at the ne-- at Neenah, Wisconsin, for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. Right. I'm gonna start out by asking you a little bit about your background. Sandy, where were you born?

PHARIS: Aurora, Colorado.

HEALEY: And where did you grow up primarily?

PHARIS: Missouri.

HEALEY: Any particular place in Missouri?

PHARIS: Washington, Missouri and St. Louis.

HEALEY: And what did your family do as you were growing up?

PHARIS: My dad was in sales. He owned a business. He owned a store in 00:01:00Washington, Missouri. I worked there since I was ten.

HEALEY: And you mentioned you were born in Colorado?

PHARIS: Yeah, my mom--

HEALEY: How that happened?

PHARIS: Well, my dad was on the road. My real mom left a two-year-old, a four-year-old and a four-month-old, which is me in the house and split. The neighbors found us like three days later. I was just four months old. I was a baby.

HEALEY: Okay. And then how did you end up moving from Colorado to Missouri?

PHARIS: They moved us. I stayed with my dad. The other two guys split up. My brother grew up with my grandparents, maternal grandparents. And then my sister grew up in Colorado. Believe it or not she was born in Georgia, but she grew up 00:02:00in Colorado. And. Yeah, I don't know a lot of that because I was so young. I only know it. My sister told me that she-- she was the four-year-old she had take care of us.

HEALEY: Hmm. Okay.

PHARIS: Till the neighbors found us and then they contact my dad on the road. He came back and we all got split out. I went with my dad too and that was in Washington.

HEALEY: So he took care of a four month old? Your dad did?

PHARIS: I don't know. And he got married to my first stepmother.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: I'm not real sure. Uh, she was a bitch. [Laughs] That was a bad person, but. Yeah. Sorry to be cussing, but there's no other.

HEALEY: And then you grew up primarily in Missouri?

PHARIS: Yes.

HEALEY: And where did you attend school?

PHARIS: In St. Louis. Chri-- Lutheran High School South.

HEALEY: And did you graduate from there?

PHARIS: Yes.

HEALEY: When did you graduate?

PHARIS: 1979.

HEALEY: And up until then, you worked at, with your father and his store?

PHARIS: Mm-hmm.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Well, in Washington, when we moved St. Louis, he hasn't a store anymore.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah. Taxes, or [inaudible].

HEALEY: Did you have any other jobs before you looked into enlisting?

PHARIS: Oh, yeah.

HEALEY: What else did you do?

PHARIS: I worked for Velvet Freeze. It was like a ice cream shop with food. [Laughs]

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Uh, I worked for Dairy Queen. Like I said, I did. That was all on St. Louis, that was on velvet Far East Washington, but all the rest were probably in St Louis because I moved there when I was 12.

HEALEY: All right. You graduated in 1979. What got you interested in joining the service?

PHARIS: Well, I had been out to Fort Leonard Wood for an interview. I was doing 00:04:00it for my school, and I decided I wanted to go in the Army. But then. I was going ta-- I was going to college and take some new law enforcement. I don't remember. Anyway, I went to Vegas for three months to visit my sister. When it came back, I just went to a Marine Corps Depot recru-- recruit-- recruiter. And I said, I'm doing.

HEALEY: What do you remember about the recruitment process? That was in 1979?

PHARIS: Yeah. The thing was women had to have a higher ASVAB score, and a high school diploma were guys only need a 10th grade education, didn't have to have a high school diploma and a lower ASVAB score. I couldn't understand that, but.

HEALEY: Okay. That's certainly interesting. You-- did you have any problems with the ASVAB? And of course, you had the high scores.

PHARIS: No, I took it like three times. No, I didn't have any problems.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Unfortunately, I did really well in math because that's what MOS I got stuck in. Was finance hated it.

HEALEY: Oh, okay. So you didn't choose finance?

PHARIS: No. I went in an open contract because I was going to go for guaranteed computer programing. But I missed the test by seven points. So, I got mad and said, "Fine, just open contract." So, they put me wherever they want [laughs]. I wish I had never done that.

HEALEY: And how long between the time you went down to the recruiters and started asking about the services, the Marine Corps? Well, let me go back. Why the Marine Corps is opposed to the Army cause you said you were initially interested in the Army?

PHARIS: My dad was in the Navy. My mom was in the Navy and my brother was in the Air Force. And I just decided to go in the Marine Corps.

HEALEY: Okay. And how much time elapsed between you went down to the recruiting 00:06:00ri-- between the time that you actually shipped to boot camp?

PHARIS: A couple of months.

HEALEY: Okay. Where did you go to boot camp?

PHARIS: Parris Island.

HEALEY: How much did you know about boot camp before you got there?

PHARIS: I didn't know anything about it. But I was in really good shape. I was used to getting yelled at, so that was no problem for me [laughs].

HEALEY: Used to getting yelled at. Where did you get yelled at?

PHARIS: Oh, my whole life. My whole childhood. It was not the best.

HEALEY: Okay. And the recruiter didn't tell you anything? Did you have a male recruiter or a female recruiter?

PHARIS: Male.

HEALEY: Male, okay. Didn't tell you anything about what to expect in boot camp?

PHARIS: Uh-uh.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: No.

HEALEY: Okay. What time of the year did you get? Where did you go to boot camp?

PHARIS: Parris Island.

HEALEY: And is that were all women at that time in the Marine Corps went to boot camp?

PHARIS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

HEALEY: How long was your boot camp?

PHARIS: Eight weeks.

HEALEY: When did you start boot camp?

PHARIS: pre-September.

HEALEY: Of 79?

PHARIS: Yes.

HEALEY: Okay. And when you signed your open contract, how long was your contract?

PHARIS: Three years.

HEALEY: All right. What do you remember about boot camp? Highlights? Low, low, low points?

PHARIS: I had a great time. I was for squad leader at, you know, I, I didn't have any problems at all.

HEALEY: What was the physical fitness requirements at that time?

PHARIS: Two miles under something and then all the other work. All the other tests you do. But I don't remember.

HEALEY: Right. You didn't have any problems doing that?

PHARIS: No.

HEALEY: Did you participate in athletics in high school or not?

PHARIS: Yes. Oh, yeah. Basketball, track and field.

HEALEY: Okay. Did you do that competitively or just--

PHARIS: Yeah. My high school.

HEALEY: Okay. When did you find out that you were going to go to be a dispersed?

PHARIS: Right after boot camp. They gave us our assignments.

HEALEY: Okay. Anything else you wanna add or remember about boot camp? Any-- Any particular drill instructor or training?

PHARIS: No. I don't remember my drill instructors.

HEALEY: Okay. Let me ask. Did you do any weapons firing in boot camp?

PHARIS: No in boot camp. No.

HEALEY: Okay. And was there any time between Parris Island Boot Camp and when you went to your follow-on training?

PHARIS: Yeah, I went to camp Lus-- I mean, Camp Johnson for MOS training, which is right down-- usually Montford Point, the black guys with boot camp, they 00:09:00renamed it to Camp Johnson, was right down the road from Camp Lezo.

HEALEY: Do they call it Montford Point at the time you went?

PHARIS: No, they called it Camp Johnson.

HEALEY: Camp Johnson.

PHARIS: But I looked in the history.

HEALEY: Okay. How long do you spend in Montford Point?

PHARIS: 3 months.

HEALEY: What do you think about the training there?

PHARIS: Oh, is okay. But we were using those old calculators there, about this big [makes noise] with the bottom. So, I went out and bought me a calculator with a printout and I came in second in my class.

HEALEY: And you were second in your class to that allow you to choose your--

PHARIS: It did after the first person. I could kick myself. I kinda went to Hawaii but chose to go back Parris Island.

HEALEY: And why did you choose Parris Island?

PHARIS: My family is in Georgia. I thought I would visit them. I didn't. I was 00:10:00a-- What's the name of the town? Um, Savannah. We were out in Savannah partying all the time. [Laughs]

HEALEY: How far are Savannah from Parris Island?

PHARIS: About 40 minutes.

HEALEY: Okay. In addition to your training at-- Well, let me ask at the MOS school in Camp Johnson, did you have any rifle or pistol training at that time?

PHARIS: Mm-hmm.

HEALEY: No?

PHARIS: No, we didn't do that Marine Corps back then.

HEALEY: All right.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: What sort of physical training, if any, did you have where you were in your follow-on school?

PHARIS: Camp Johnson?

HEALEY: Yeah, Camp Johnson. What were your barracks like?

PHARIS: At boot camp?

HEALEY: Both, at boot camp and in--

PHARIS: I was in L Company. The old L company.

HEALEY: In boot camp?

PHARIS: The L barracks.

HEALEY: Okay. And then when you moved up to Camp Johnson?

PHARIS: Uh, boy, I don't remember. Camp Johnson. I imagine a regular barracks I-- I don't remember Camp Johnson.

HEALEY: Did you have liberty while you were at Camp Johnson?

PHARIS: Oh, yeah.

HEALEY: And--

PHARIS: You could go and do anything you wanted. You know, besides going to school.

HEALEY: Everyday?

PHARIS: Everyday, yeah.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Every day. We're in school for, like, 8 hours a day. Yeah, we had the time off.

HEALEY: And your boot camp was just women. Is that correct?

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: At Camp Johnson, was it coed?

PHARIS: Coed.

HEALEY: Okay. What percentage of the students at Camp Johnson were men and women?

PHARIS: I just looked at that picture, too. Uh, I think it was about one third women. Two thirds guys.

HEALEY: Okay. And from camp, Camp Johnson how did you get on liberty? Or did you 00:12:00just do your liberty at Camp Johnson? How did you get out and to--

PHARIS: Go to do stuff?

HEALEY: Yeah.

PHARIS: Well, we were all in school. It was just like a job. And we had the nights, the weekends, everything free.

HEALEY: And what did you do during your free time where you were at Camp Johnson?

PHARIS: Drink. Go out and party.

HEALEY: On base or off base?

PHARIS: Off base.

HEALEY: Off base?

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: I don't think they had any club on base. Maybe they did. That was so long ago. I'm sorry. I can't answer your questions very well.

HEALEY: That's all right. And what was the drinking age at that time? If you remember.

PHARIS: I think it was 18.

HEALEY: And you were 18 at the time or--

PHARIS: I was eighteen [inaudible].

HEALEY: Okay. So tell me your second time at Parris Island when you went there to be dispersed there. How long did you spend at Parris Island?

PHARIS: The rest of my time. I had orders to Okinawa, but I didn't make it over there.

HEALEY: And you say that you didn't particularly like dispersing. Why didn't you like dispersing?

PHARIS: It's an office job. It was all fine. It was all money. I didn't care for the job. I would rather have done something else. I don't care if I was a truck driver, anything else but finance. I did okay, but I shouldn't like it.

HEALEY: You mentioned in your interview that you were on the on the teams at Parris Island as sports teams. What sort of sports team?

PHARIS: Basketball and softball.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: We travel around to TADO, TAD [Temporary Additional Duty] orders.

HEALEY: How did you find out about basketball and softball that they even had a team? Did somebody recruit you or did you see it or--

PHARIS: Must've known about it and, I-- Yeah, my memory's not the best [selling??].

HEALEY: All right. You said you went TAD. Did you just go on weekends or?

PHARIS: No. During the week, we went to Quantico. We went to Cherry Point. I think it was Cherry Point for softball, Quantico for basketball. I know it's Quantico for basketball. So we just went and played.

HEALY: Okay.

PHARIS: And then back to our jobs.

HEALEY: And those were sports that you previously played?

PHARIS: Yes.

HEALEY: Yes.

PHARIS: Well, I never played softball before. I used to play baseball when I was little kid.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: But I could take that ball. I played outfield. I could take that ball and throw it to the catcher. I didn't go to second base. I threw it to the catcher. That's where I get my arm used to be. And I was on target. I love that, you know, cause I, I had a good arm.

HEALEY: How much of your time would you say that you were TAD and gone playing at?

PHARIS: A week for each.

HEALEY: A week for each just one time a year?

PHARIS: Yeah. It was tournament.

HEALEY: All right.

PHARIS: Throw with other bases.

HEALEY: And when you were doing the tournaments, did you also play basketball and softball at Parris Island on a team?

PHARIS: Yeah, it was our team.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: That went to those places.

HEALEY: Yeah.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: And how much of your off-duty time would you say? Well, did you spend on duty time practicing or just off duty while you're at Parris Island?

PHARIS: To practice for the team?

HEALEY: Right.

PHARIS: Oh, we practice like, three times a week.

HEALEY: Okay. After work?

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay. I take it that was kind of your highlight of your Parris Island experience cause you didn't particularly--

PHARIS: Well, I like to snap and pop at Parris Island. I liked, I liked everything was perfect. And, you know, the uniforms, there was no fluff and dry and put 'em on. I mean, everything was perfect. And I like having my uniforms 00:16:00perfect. I like the creases in the back.

HEALEY: What kind of uniforms did you wear when you were working at the dispersing office?

PHARIS: Bs, class B, and on Fridays we got to wear Cammies.

HEALEY: Describe what class B are.

PHARIS: Just a khaki shirt with either the skirt or the slacks and the little tie.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Probably same thing you are.

HEALEY: Did you iron your own uniforms?

PHARIS: Yes, I did.

HEALEY: You did?

PHARIS: Started boot camp. Learn how to do it in boot camp.

HEALEY: All right.

PHARIS: I continued afterwards. I never had it on a dry, clean, nothing. I always did my own.

HEALEY: And what kind of footwear did you wear when you were in your class Bs?

PHARIS: Like pumps, not pumps, but the flat black ones.

HEALEY: Did you have to spit shine those or not?

PHARIS: Yes, I was very good at that. I can make 'em look like mirrors. I still do that.

HEALEY: You can make 'em look like what?

PHARIS: Mirrors.

HEALEY: Mirrors?

PHARIS: Looking in a mirror.

HEALEY: Oh, mirrors.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: They're so bright.

HEALEY: All right. Any particular person or event that you remember where you were at Parris Island, that sticks out to you? Was it did you have a mentor or somebody that helped you?

PHARIS: No.

HEALEY: No.

PHARIS: Well, I went to boot camp.

HEALEY: You went to boot camp?

PHARIS: Yes.

HEALEY: And then when you got to dispersing on the job, in dispersing, was there somebody that you reported to or that said, this is what you do, this is what you don't do?

PHARIS: Watched train. Oh, you mean like housekeeping rules or just in my job?

HEALEY: At work, at work, in your job. How you besides going to Camp Johnson to learn it? Did you have any follow on just training on the job?

PHARIS: Just, it was just no. You went and got your job at disperse.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: And you started in. I handle weapons battalion, so everybody was in weapons battalion. I paved weapons battalions on base.

HEALEY: And you said you paid them. Did you pay?

PHARIS: No, I paved.

HEALEY: Oh, paved.

PHARIS: Yeah, paved the way. But no, I was, I-- I'm not sure which you're asking for it. Could you repeat that?

HEALEY: Oh, basically, back at when you were working in 79, 80, 81, did people get checks, check the bank?

PHARIS: Back then they got checks every two weeks.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: So, you know, we get the rough roll in, added it, whatever you gotta do, and then the smooth, the rough roll comes in, then the smooth roll in the LES come in.

HEALEY: And LES stands for what?

PHARIS: Leave an Earning Statement.

HEALEY: Okay. Thank you.

PHARIS: That's some yellow piece of paper you got with your, with your checks.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Back then, the smooth roll come out and the checks would come with it.

HEALEY: And what's a smooth roll?

PHARIS: Well, you have a rough roll. You work on all the PFR records, Personal Financial Records. You work on all those. And then when it's done, you submit all the checks that are gonna be paid on that rough roll. You can put a line through it. NPD, No Pay Do. You can adjust it. And then when that's done, that goes to get the checks and the smooth rollback. Smooth roll means that's how many checks you got. You have to double check that against all your checks. And now everything's computerized, but back then it was electric typewriters. And stuff, yeah, everything was old back then.

HEALEY: So while you were at Parris Island and you were there for, what, a year and a half, two years?

PHARIS: Almost two years.

HEALEY: Almost two years. And you mentioned going to Savannah for liberty. Did 00:20:00you ever take leave and go back home?

PHARIS: Well, I had an accident when I was in. I had to go home about a month and a half in a naval hospital in Beaufort. Then I had to go home for a month to convalescent leave. But no, I didn't usually go on leave. Excuse me. I didn't know. Yeah.

HEALEY: You didn't go on leave either to Georgia or back to Missouri?

PHARIS: I might have went to St. Louis once. I might have went home once.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: And you said you went convalescent leave. Where'd you go convalescent leave?

PHARIS: At home, St. Louis.

HEALEY: St. Louis. Okay. And initially you said you-- I believe you said you had a three-year contract, and you didn't spend, you-- did you get out before your contract?

PHARIS: Yeah, I was like a non-conformist to rules and regulations. I was always 00:21:00in trouble.

HEALEY: All right.

PHARIS: So they got me an expeditious discharge whatever you call that. Commandant outta the Marine Corps had to sign off on it. Basically, I got asked to leave. I didn't finish my time.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: I was always in trouble. I was always in the wrong place at the wrong time [laughs].

HEALEY: Anything else you want to add about that, the circumstances of your discharge or not?

PHARIS: No, I don't think so.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: I went home after that and then I left. I was going home for like a month. And then I moved. I hitchhiked over the United States. So, I've lived all over the United States, except northeast or north of here.

HEALEY: How old were you when you got out of the ring? When you were discharged?

PHARIS: 20.

HEALEY: You were 20. And you said you went back home to the St. Louis area. Did 00:22:00you get a job there or did you just start traveling?

PHARIS: I pretty much started traveling.

HEALEY: Were you on your own?

PHARIS: I was then.

HEALEY: Okay. What did you do to support yourself?

PHARIS: I had jobs here and there and I go and live places. But then I get bored and move.

HEALEY: And how did you end up in Wisconsin? And when?

PHARIS: I was in San Diego, I moved here and thirty-three years ago. So that would be. Would that be 23 and 33, 10--

HEALEY: 1990 roughly.

PHARIS: I said righty. My sister lives here and I was in a bad lifestyle in San Diego, so I had to get out of it.

HEALEY: Okay. So you lived with your sister?

PHARIS: For a while.

HEALEY: Your sister still lives here?

PHARIS: Yeah. Still lives here.

HEALEY: And apparently you settled down here in Green Bay? Uh, excuse me, Neenah.

PHARIS: Appleton.

HEALEY: Appleton.

PHARIS: I lived in Appleton, Oshkosh, and Neenah. I lived in Neenah twice, so I just have to find our house in Neenah, we bought a house.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Three years ago, so.

HEALEY: You bought a house with your sister? I'm sorry.

PHARIS: No, with my partner.

HEALEY: With your partner. Okay. But you've been in this General Fox Valley area for 33 years? Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah. And the funny thing was, it's the first winter I was here. It was the worst winter they had seen in 20 years. And it's snow on my birthday. May first. I told my sister after I went to visit us on my birthday. I'm out of here. And then I didn't leave. And then it snowed on my birthday this year.

HEALEY: And you stay?

PHARIS: And I stay.

HEALEY: Okay. What sort of things have you done in terms of jobs in the last so many years?

PHARIS: So many. So many. Um, well, you know, to start, I've had so many jobs. I worked in Mills. Uh. Oh, God. Let me think. Mills. I work for the nonprofit industry. I work for NAMI Fox Valley.

HEALEY: And what is NAMI?

PHARIS: National Alliance on Mental Illness.

HEALEY: National Alliance for Mental Illness.

PHARIS: On Mental Illness.

HEALEY: On Mental Illness.

PHARIS: Which we call the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill and the National Alliance on Mental Illness. It encompasses the families and everybody. So.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: I worked there 6 and a half years-- 9 years. I was here 9 years. I 00:25:00volunteered for six. And then I worked three and a half in my regular job. How many people can say they created their own job? I was volunteering, doing all this work. I was like a project coordinator. And then my boss walked up to me one day and said, "How would you like to get paid for what you do?"

HEALEY: All right.

PHARIS: So, I got paid for what I do for the next 3 and a half years.

HEALEY: What sort of thing did you do for NAMI at that time?

PHARIS: I was a veterans program coordinator. I ran veterans support groups. Where do I do veterans. That was my job.

HEALEY: So NAMI servi-- services more than veterans, but--

PHARIS: Everybody.

HEALEY: Everybody but it also has a, you developed a segment for veterans?

PHARIS: Yeah, I rewrote a, a curriculum called Peer-to-Peer, but I put a veteran thing in the last three weeks. So specific to veterans. It was basically, the 00:26:00curriculum was pretty much the same. But then I added things to it, you know.

HEALEY: All righty. And are you still working or are you retired?

PHARIS: I retired in 2012.

HEALEY: I'm sorry. You retired when?

PHARIS: 2012.

HEALEY: 2012. Okay. What other veterans' groups, if any, have you been involved with?

PHARIS: DAV, DAV [Disabled American Veterans] pretty much takes all my time up.

HEALEY: When did you start your involvement with DAV?

PHARIS: Four years ago.

HEALEY: And what sorts of things do you do for DAV and for DAV?

PHARIS: I'm a what they call a B. P. T. L. That stands for Benefits Protection Team Leader. Should I work on legislation, say, and then I do stuff for my chapter too. I usually district we BPTO and then my chapter BPTO. But I dropped 00:27:00the district. There's just too much work. We had 13 chapters and you got to travel around the state, all of them, it was just too much work. And I wasn't getting support from the head guy in Wisconsin. He just tells stuff to read. I go to D.C. every year and yeah, national convention I'm going to this year. That's in New Jersey.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Atlantic City, where I'm driving, usually I fly out there, get my own room. So I'm real picky on sharing rooms and I don't sleep well. I'm up and down all night with pain and-- We're going to drive my van, my town and country van there. What should the cost of the gas? Where we got reservations for the room. Which can be weird. I don't want to share the room, talk about calling out there 00:28:00and see if I can get, like, a little upgrade to, like, a junior suite. She gave us couch in a separate area instead of just sit down to bed. I like room.

HEALEY: Okay. You mentioned pain. Does that have anything to do with the accident? From where?

PHARIS: Where was it?

HEALEY: Well, my question was going to be, does your pain have anything to do with the accident that you were involved in when you were in the Marine Corps?

PHARIS: Yes. It's degenerated so bad. I just had new MRI's and--

HEALEY: And I didn't follow up and ask you about the accident. What sort of accident did you have when you were at Parris Island?

PHARIS: I was on base. I was going off base. We came this close to seeing suing GMA--GMAC [General Motors Acceptance Corporation], for a steering defect in my Camaro, but we didn't get it. But I was going off base. Somehow, I was going. I 00:29:00didn't know what happened. I hit a palmetto tree at 65 miles an hour impact on the driver's door. I didn't have sit bet on, that's the only thing that saved me cause the car got crushed. I'd cut my neck off. But that's the only thing that save me. But unfortunately, I got thrown outta the car facedown. The car went up the tree, did a 180 degree turn and fell on top of me. So I got lots of injuries. I got third and fourth degree burns until my-- burns on my back. The catalytic converter was sitting on my back for an hour and a half with the car running. So, and then when the paramedics found me, I said, "There's three other people in my car." There was nobody in my car. I was totally in shock. They were gonna drag, drag, drag to swamp on that side. Yeah. I got hurt real bad.

HEALEY: Did you ever find those three people? Were they?

PHARIS: There was no people.

HEALEY: There were no people.

PHARIS: I was in shock. I don't know why.

HEALEY: Oh, okay. No. Were you still on base or were you off base?

PHARIS: I was in Base.

HEALEY: On base.

PHARIS: I dunno why I'd be going that fast. Yeah. I really get hurt.

HEALEY: Hmm.

PHARIS: Fractured my pelvis, trashed my back, burned my back. Broke all my left ribs, collapsed my left lung. I got hurt pretty bad. I spent a month and a half in a naval hospital.

HEALEY: API or Beaufort?

PHARIS: Beaufort.

HEALEY: Beaufort.

PHARIS: Yeah. Beaufort Naval Hospital.

HEALEY: Month and a half in the hospital and then you were sent home?

PHARIS: Mm-hmm.

HEALEY: To recoup?

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay. Why did you decide to do this interview? What motivated you to do 00:31:00the interview?

PHARIS: I want to talk about, see, I'm a, I work with a lot of women veterans, and it's always the same story. On all my veterans women chat sites. So many of 'em have the same story of MST [Military Sexual Trauma] and PTSD. I didn't have a problem. I, I worked with everybody. I didn't get, I didn't dispute anybody. I always got along with everybody. So, I didn't have those issues.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: It was like when I was on base and the men on base, they took us under their wing. They didn't let anybody mess with us.

HEALEY: How did you hear about the Manitowoc program? Was that through your commander at DAV?

PHARIS: I think we both read it or something, heard about it and we took a trip 00:32:00out there.

HEALEY: All right. Overall, how do you feel about your military experience?

PHARIS: I mean, is good to do it. Going into the military I learned a lot of discipline and patience and everything. So, in that respect, it was good. The other respect is I hated my job. So, every day I went in, I hated my job. I didn't like it, but I did it well.

HEALEY: I had asked you if you ever had training during boot camp in your follow-on school in weapons? Did--

PHARIS: No, we didn't do it. The only carry, the only gun I carried was a 45 because we had to do night watch at the dispersing office, the building. So we carried a 45.

HEALEY: And did you receive training?

PHARIS: No, we did receive a little training, you know, we shot 'em, we took 'em 00:33:00apart, all that stuff. We had to clear it every day. We did training. Well, we did firewatch.

HEALEY: But did you ever go out to the pistol range?

PHARIS: I did with 45.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: And that was just because of your job. Other women did not receive 45 training, training on the 45?

PHARIS: No, anybody in our building. If they were doing night watch and it was 83 and below, they did night watch for the building. So, we you're always rotating like once a week you do not watch.

HEALEY: What was your rank while you were serving at PI [Parris Island] and when you got out?

PHARIS: Well, I made up to lance corporal, almost corporal, but then I got busted a couple times.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Got it private when I got out.

HEALEY: Say that again.

PHARIS: I was a private when I got out.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah, I had a rough time. I said I had such a strict bringing up. And 00:34:00when I got in the Marine Corps and got out on my own out nuts, I, everything I could do wrong I did.

HEALEY: I don't have any other specific questions for you, Sandy. Is there anything else that you want to talk about or that we missed that you'd like to talk about?

PHARIS: Hmm. No, not really. Like I said, I work with a lot of women veterans, so I hear their stories a lot the same stories where they were attacked or raped or there's a, that percentage, VA's got as a joke.

HEALEY: Say that again.

PHARIS: The VA percentage for women that get MST in the service or raped or assaulted or whatever it was, 60 percent is not 20 like the VA says. It's not 00:35:00right. You know how they are. They gotta covered their butt.

HEALEY: And that's based on your experience talking to women veterans?

PHARIS: Working with them. Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay. And when or what action, if any, do you take when you hear from a woman veteran?

PHARIS: I supported her or redirect her to other sites that could help them.

HEALEY: Okay. And generally, where do you redirect them?

PHARIS: Well, VA has got some good information out there about MST and PTSD, but then I give 'em resources whatever kinda resources they need at the time, whether it's housing, financial bills, whatever they need.

HEALEY: And from your experience, personal experience, how would you say that women veterans are doing in terms of finding housing, financial support, jobs, that sort of thing?

PHARIS: I think it's rough. The reintegration is hard on women. It's bad enough 00:36:00they don't even get considered as veterans.

HEALEY: You still find that's the case?

PHARIS: I don't have that problem. I never had a problem being considered a veteran. All my friends know I even parked in a veteran parking spot, a festival. But on the back, I've got women Marines, fewer prouder. I got a Marine Corps license plate holder, and then I just put new decal on. It says Lady Leatherneck, and it's got a rose on it.

HEALEY: Ok.

PHARIS: It's pretty cool.

HEALEY: So you labeled yourself there, you make sure you are labeled.

PHARIS: I labeled my vehicle and if anybody has a question, I'll say, "go look at the back of it."

HEALEY: Do you find that women not being considered as veterans as part of the big attitude?

PHARIS: The big picture.

HEALEY: The big picture? Is it--is it also in part, maybe you don't see this, they're not wanting to express that they're veterans or not?

PHARIS: I think some of that is. But I think they're just so discouraged because they'll be with their boyfriend or husband who's got a veteran's hat on. They only thank them, and it is the other guys. This guys gotta say, "no, I'm not the vet. My wife's the vet." Or he's a vet and my wife's a vet. You know, that's what I mean.

HEALEY: Interesting.

PHARIS: I work with a lot of people. I see this a lot.

HEALEY: It is the DAV has an office? Or how do people contact the DAV in your county?

PHARIS: Just contact DAV, Winnebago County or DAV Wisconsin and then you can find all the chapters around the state.

HEALEY: And that puts 'em in contact on the phone or email or how?

PHARIS: Email. I'm sure there's number, there's number on there. You can call 00:38:00people for help. We do financial help. We do. We just had a big fundraiser called Operation Cabin Fever, and that brought us funds to send bats to alternate therapies such as, let's see, equine therapy, float therapy.

HEALEY: What's flow therapy?

PHARIS: It's when you're in this con-- I haven't done it yet. I could have went but you're in this container like full of water. And then they got music piped in and all kinds of. It's just relaxation.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah. Get them in a different mindset. If you can do that for one minute to someone to get the minute different, like mindfulness. Am I not talking loud enough?

HEALEY: You just push the mic away. So there you go. Okay.

PHARIS: Okay. What was it? Oh, yeah. I teach them little tricks too, like 00:39:00mindfulness tricks where you're focused on one thing for a minute and you're not thinking anything else, but you focus. I don't care if it's a chair just focused on something. I used to have a friend of mine call. He had schizophrenia. He would call me up at three in the morning to walk him through, you know, to calm down, to go to bed. And he'd called me, like four times a week. He was older, he was like 70 something. We had hard time sometimes and I worked with a lot of people with mental illnesses.

HEALEY: Do you still do that?

PHARIS: Well, I do.

HEALEY: You do?

PHARIS: In a roundabout way, I work more with NAMI. But I still work with a lot of veterans and my job puts me in contact with a lot of veterans working for DAV.

HEALEY: Oh, okay. And that's a volunteer job? DAV?

PHARIS: All of them.

HEALEY: All of 'em now cause you retired.

PHARIS: Yeah.

HEALEY: Okay.

PHARIS: Yeah, it's all volunteer, [inaudible]. I don't have a whole lot to add, Helen.

HEALEY: Well, you've done a good job, and I thank you. I appreciate you coming here today and setting up this interview. You've got nothing else. I do want to thank you on behalf of the Veterans Museum of Wisconsin. Thanks for the service in the Marine Corps.

PHARIS: Thank you.

HEALEY: You're welcome.

[Interview Ends]