Oral History Interview with Tina M. Treffert

[Interview Begins]

BOWERS HEALEY: Today is Tuesday, October 17th, 2023. And this is an interview with and I'm going to ask you please to state your name.

TREFFERT: Maiden name Tina Marie Kluczinske. Married name Tina Marie Treffert.

BOWERS HEALEY: And I'm going to ask you to spell both of those last names first. Your maiden name, please.

TREFFERT: Kluczinske.

BOWERS HEALEY: And now you're married. Name please.

TREFFERT: Treffert.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. Thank you. And Tina, you served in the United States Army from 1990 to 1994 on active duty, is that correct?

TREFFERT: Yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: And then in the Army National Guard from 1994 to 2021, is that correct?

TREFFERT: 2001.

BOWERS HEALEY: 2001. Thank you. Okay. This interview is being conducted by Ellen Healey in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin, for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History 00:01:00Program. No one else is present for this interview. All right, Tina, why don't you tell me where you grew up?

TREFFERT: I was raised in Manitowoc.

BOWERS HEALEY: All right. And tell me a little bit about your family, while you were going to school and-- and being raised.

TREFFERT: Mom and dad and two sisters, one older, one younger. So, I was the middle child, grandparents, raised very patriotic sense of service, Catholic and--

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And where did you go to school?

TREFFERT: I went to school at Lincoln High School. Graduated in 1990. I consider it a small town.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And what did your mom and dad do for a living?

TREFFERT: They just both worked.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And you graduated in 1990 from high school. So, when did you start thinking about the military?

TREFFERT: Actually, middle of my senior year, I actually enlisted in the delayed entry program. I was seventeen years old and neither one of my parents had any idea that I was interested until it was the day to go down to the recruiting station. And I actually had to have them sign, because that was February of 1990, and I didn't turn eighteen until late summer.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And were they happy to sign?

TREFFERT: I think my mom was worried, but my dad was very happy.

BOWERS HEALEY: Why was your mom worried?

TREFFERT: Probably just being away from home. Not a whole lot of experience 00:03:00outside that small town. And. But I don't think she was shocked out of all of us girls. I think she probably figured that was somewhere in my future.

BOWERS HEALEY: What type of activities did you do in high school that might have led your parents to not be shocked about your joining the military?

TREFFERT: Well, I considered myself a tomboy, but I was in gymnastics. Basketball. I played in the orchestra since I was, ten, eleven years old. Just did a whole bunch of different things. We were in Girl Scouts for, gosh, as long as I can remember. So, just very outdoorsy, adventurous. Wasn't afraid to try 00:04:00things. And even though my size didn't show it, I was always an advocate for the underdog. So, yeah, it was just that I was just raised, I believe, with a sense of service.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And tell me a little bit more about your enlistment experience? You said you were in the delayed entry program at seventeen. What was your contact with the Army recruiters like? Did you look at any other service?

TREFFERT: I did not look at any other service. I knew it was Army. Just because of my dad and his family members. Really didn't. Yeah. There was no drive for any other service.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. An, when did you take the ASVAB? Where did they check to see if you were physically capable of doing the Army requirements?

TREFFERT: Yes. Did the physical, did the ASVAB, and actually the day of the 00:05:00ASVAB. I had scored high enough, so they asked me if I would take an additional test and put me in a little room with a old fashioned cassette recorder and scantron sheet and said, here you go. And little did I know what that was going to be. That was the start of learning Morse code.

BOWERS HEALEY: What's the Scantron sheet?

TREFFERT: Just one of those sheets that has the little bubbles on it, like A-B-C-D. And so, you listen to the recording, and you learn four different letters in Morse code. You were given a certain amount of time to listen to that and learn it. And then they gave you the test and you took that test. That is when they would play one of the letters that you learned. Then you had to document that on the sheet. And then depending upon how well you scored that, I 00:06:00scored high enough on that test, not knowing what I was getting myself into.

BOWERS HEALEY: Before you took that test, did you have any idea what you'd be doing in the military, or did you have something in mind?

TREFFERT: I wanted to go into military police, but at that point in time, I did not meet the height requirement. And so, from that point on, it was whatever possibilities, I was not set on anything.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. So, when you signed your contract, your final contract, before going in, did you know that you were going to be in Morse code?

TREFFERT: I did. I actually scored high enough on both the ASVAB and the Morse code test that I was able to get station of choice.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. All right. So, before we talk about your station of choice, how many years did you enlist for?

TREFFERT: Initially did eight. Four active and then four inactive.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And when did you go to your basic training and where was that basic training?

TREFFERT: Basic training was at Fort Dix, New Jersey. Again, I had to wait until I turned eighteen, so I left September of 1990.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And tell me what you recall about basic training.

TREFFERT: Well, first time on an airplane. And so. And that was not commercial airlines at that time. So, that was pretty interesting. Basic training.

BOWERS HEALEY: Although I said it wasn't commercial. Where did you take off from? Milwaukee. Okay. In a military craft?

TREFFERT: Yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Yeah, that was my thought. The night my parents took me down to the station, and spent the night there, that was, honestly, that was the first time I ever saw my dad cry. And I get emotional about it. But yeah. So, the only thing, a couple things I take away from basic training. I always had the mindset of going into it that they were going to break you down, to build you up. So, it wasn't so much a mental thing for me. The physical. I had always been physically active, but I probably didn't realize some of the physical tests I was going to take on. The biggest thing for me was sleep. And to this day, I do not like 00:09:00sleeping or being woke up by lights. Because that's how they woke us up. Come in and turn on the lights. So. Yeah, just lack of sleep. But again, you learn to adapt and deal with it. Never shot a gun or any weapons before. That was probably the hardest thing for me to get over a fear, as not being comfortable at a skill level, handling a weapon, or I think back then they made such a big deal about when you're on the range, if there's a pop no kick, what could have happened. And so, that's always stuck with me.

BOWERS HEALEY: What type of weapons did you fire during?

TREFFERT: Basically, just the M-16 and then you did your regular grenade. So 00:10:00yeah, but again, not knowing or having any type of exposure to it before going in, it was just intimidating. Of course, the more you did it, the more comfortable you got. But. Yeah.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. Now, you said your father was in the service.

TREFFERT: Yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: And which branch?

TREFFERT: Army.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And when did he serve?

TREFFERT: 1966 to 1969 at Fort Richardson, Alaska.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And I noticed you brought in his picture and framed. Can you hold that up kind of almost in front of your face or picks it up with a camera? Yeah. Okay. Describe what that is that you're holding.

TREFFERT: Actually, that is a picture from last year. I always wanted to visit that base where he was stationed. He always wanted to go back to Alaska. My mom had no desire to go to Alaska. So, for my fiftieth birthday, I decided we were 00:11:00going to take a trip. So, I took him out there for a week.

BOWERS HEALEY: And where is Fort Richardson, Alaska?

TREFFERT: That would be in Anchorage.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And so, we actually found the base and the original sign that he had been he was looking for. We found the barracks area that he would have stayed in. We found motor pool, which is what his job was.

BOWERS HEALEY: It was still an operating base or not.

TREFFERT: It is. It is actually a joint base now with Elmendorf Airfield.

BOWERS HEALEY: So. And what did your father do in the Army?

TREFFERT: He was in motor pool. And so, he talks about driving those trucks and that kind of thing quite often. All right. And when we were on our road trip, some of the places that we went, he would say, oh, I remember going here, taking 00:12:00that route and all that kind of stuff. So, it was very cool, very cool.

BOWERS HEALEY: Wonderful that you were able to do that with your dad. Thanks for getting that. Okay, back to your basic training. Being woken up with a light and shooting. Anything else you remember about your time at basic training?

TREFFERT: Nothing--

BOWERS HEALEY: Any particular instructors that stuck out to you one way or the other?

TREFFERT: Not really. I just with the maiden name, I don't know all that through basic training, I was ever called by my name. Just because it was unique. I was known as Private Alphabet because they really couldn't pronounce it, much less spell it. So. And at that point in time, I was okay with it.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. All right. So, you knew your military occupational specialty before you got to the basic training. What was your next duty station then?

TREFFERT: I headed over to Fort Devens, Massachusetts, and that was the Army Military Intelligence School.

BOWERS HEALEY: And how did the Army transport you from one base to another?

TREFFERT: I believe that was a flight.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. All right, now, tell me more about Fort Devens.

TREFFERT: Oh, old. The base was old. I feel like when I went from basic training to advanced individual training, like it was a step backwards. That was the open concept, old school barracks. And it just seemed that my recollection, just a very old base. But being the military intelligence we had in our unit, it was males and females. So, I don't want to say it wasn't as structured as maybe 00:14:00other MOS's may have been, but that's just my experience.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. I should have asked you your basic training. Was that with males or was it all females?

TREFFERT: There were males going through their basic training that were on base, but ours was strictly all female.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And so, you had integrated training when you were in military intelligence. Correct. Was everyone at. In your class learning Morse code, or were they doing other types of military intelligence?

TREFFERT: Morse code?

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And did you find Morse code difficult? Hard. Challenging. Easy. Where?

TREFFERT: I actually loved it. It was a challenge, but at the same time. I love numbers, I love puzzles and that kind of thing. So, I think that was. And I like 00:15:00the definitiveness of it, if that makes sense. Like if you equate it like math or anything like that. I mean, they refer to them as "dits" and "dots" so these when the dits and dots are put together in a group, it can only be one thing. That's what makes up a letter. If it's a different way, then it's a different letter. So, I like the precision of it. Not everybody can learn it. They're just not equipped. I also liked that it was a self-paced course. So even though you went to school with everybody else on a daily basis, the lessons weren't the same for the whole entire group like you, depending upon how quickly you learned it is how fast you paced and graduated.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Now, there was one phenomenal guy that was there with us, and I believe the average was somewhere between like three and six months of all learning it all. But then it's not just a matter of just learning the letters. You have to be able to, like I said, group letters together, and then you have to be able to what they call it's called copy Morse code. You have to be able to copy so many groups in a certain amount of time in order to pass. But in order to fully pass, you have to repeat that back-to-back. So you might go through your final testing and be able to pass, but then you have to repeat. You have to pass successfully twice, two times in a row before you graduate. Sometimes you'll pass the first and not the second door. It might take a while. And not 00:17:00only are you sitting with a headset at this old station, it wasn't a keyboard. Almost like an old-fashioned typewriter. Think between an old-fashioned typewriter and today's computer. So, it had big buttons that you're clanking on, but you also not only had to type out, that's what it was called. Everything that you did typing on the computer to pass you also had to do what they call stick out, which was with pencil and paper. So, there's like people learn shorthand or whatnot. You had to be very fast at writing because not only could you do it on the computer, you had to do that physically with pencil on paper. So.

BOWERS HEALEY: So, did you type before you went?

TREFFERT: I actually did. In high school. We had a keyboarding class. It was an elective, I believe, back then. So, I had a little bit of background, but I 00:18:00wasn't that proficient.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. Now, you indicated that averages between three and six months. Did you have some people that just dropped out or attrition from the school or you don't know?

TREFFERT: Absolutely. There was I-- we probably all recall, one gentleman that I'd be assuming if I said, but he just one day just took the headset threw it and said, I'm done, I can't do this anymore. And after that, we never saw him again. I wasn't sure if there's a certain frequency that you learn and you listen to, and so I don't know if it was the frequency, if it was just the constant tones that are coming at you, at the speeds they're coming at you. And 00:19:00again, it's not for everyone. So. Yeah. But then we had one guy that came in and he was in and out in five weeks. So, he was like, we're like, okay, well, you're not the norm, but we'll see you when we get there. So yeah, it was and I think that was probably one of the best things about it was everybody was at a different place, but yet you were learning the same thing.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And so, how long did you spend at Fort Dix?

TREFFERT: I was there. That's an interesting story. I got there in November after basic training and then completed in April. However, during that time is when Desert Storm broke out.

BOWERS HEALEY: And how did that impact your schooling?

TREFFERT: Well, with being military intelligence and that particular MOS. There were some people that actually, as they graduated, got their deployment orders. 00:20:00And so, I was actually placed on what they called the casual status for two weeks or on hold, as they would say, did not know at that point whether they were sending more from our class or particular MOS, or if we were just going to our duty station.

BOWERS HEALEY: And during that casual status, did you continue learning and so, pacing every day or was training stopped?

TREFFERT: Well, it was still ongoing training. Well, we had kind of we were towards graduation, like we were on that so you could test out. But they still wanted you actively learning or at least training so that you didn't lose anything.

BOWERS HEALEY: In addition to your Morse code classes, were you doing other things like physical fitness or not?

TREFFERT: Oh, yes. Just still regular standard training after your school day, class day ended or before. So, PT on a regular basis, your regular field training, that was usually on the weekend. So, nothing real out of the ordinary.

BOWERS HEALEY: How long was each school day or how long would you have a headset on and be taking-- listening to Morse code?

TREFFERT: Eight hours a day.

BOWERS HEALEY: Eight hours a day. Okay. I ask that question because it seems like a rather fatiguing or tedious thing to do for hours on end.

TREFFERT: Extremely. Extremely.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. So, you said you selected your duty station. And tell me about your selection.

TREFFERT: So, as we were still sitting there in the, recruiting part of it after 00:22:00they said, okay, you scored this high, that allows you to have station of choice there again, not understanding what that meant, but this is where so I say I enlisted with part of the reason was because of my dad. But I have to say that if it wasn't for my mom, I'm not sure I would have ended up where I did because she had the thought process to ask the question I didn't even know to ask is, okay, but what are my options? Like, where can this take me? I didn't know, and so they started listing off different duty stations. You know, there was the Turkey, Germany, Korea, and then they hit the jackpot with Hawaii. And I was all 00:23:00for that. Wisconsin's got four seasons, and I only probably like two, maybe two and a half of those and they're not the cold ones. Plus, I just felt like, gee, I'm not sure if that would ever be a place I would get to. So. And it's the polar opposite of where my dad was in Alaska. So, I thought, okay, you said Hawaii, let's go for it. And being an outdoorsy person, I grew up around water, whether it was Lake Michigan and Manitowoc or my grandparent's cottage up in Door County, I was always around water. So, I felt like this is going to be a good fit.

BOWERS HEALEY: So, did you have any time between basic and going to Hawaii?

TREFFERT: I did, I had I think it was a week to ten days. So, I came home, did 00:24:00all the-- the usual stuff and visits and, you know, I don't know that there was a whole lot of packing that went in. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: So, you already had all of your uniforms, correct?

TREFFERT: Yeah.

BOWERS HEALEY: And by the time you finished your training at Fort Dix, what was your rank at that time?

TREFFERT: I did actually go in as Private E-2. I had recruited somebody while I was still in high school under that delayed entry program, so I was already in E-2 when I went in. I didn't go for any other ranks until I was at my permanent duty station. So, I went too.

BOWERS HEALEY: And tell me about your experience in Hawaii first. Tell me about--so, you were at Schofield Barracks, correct? Okay. Now, where is that located in Hawaii?

TREFFERT: On the island of Oahu.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Right across the street was Hickam Airfield, the Air Force. But being 00:25:00military intelligence there again, it was, it not your typical army barracks. We had our own quad and we are very spoiled looking at other accommodations, other units that we shared, Schofield Barracks with. Because that was a. What do I want to say? That was the rest of it, I believe, was just a field unit. So, our barracks, the only thing I can equate it to in today's terms is like college dorms. We had males and females together not only in the same building, but on the same floor. I had two roommates. We had our own, we didn't have common areas 00:26:00as far as, like, bathroom showers and all that. Every room could have held 4 soldiers, but they only put three in a room. But we had our own private bathrooms right in there. But right next door was a room full of males. They were good at, like, everybody that was in the same company and squad pretty much on the same floor. But we worked shift work there, which is very hard.

BOWERS HEALEY: Before you get into the shift work, something I forgot to ask you, your military intelligence. So, clearance. Did you have a clearance?

TREFFERT: I did. Top-secret security clearance.

BOWERS HEALEY: And when did you get the top-secret security?

TREFFERT: Actually, had to have that done before you could do the Morse code training. Yep. So that clearance actually started. Oh, they started doing that 00:27:00background while I was still in high school, actually, once I signed my paperwork. Which is an interesting process all in of itself. I mean, they talk to neighbors, teachers. Again at seventeen, I didn't really have anything else. I didn't even have, like, an extended work history. I didn't really work much in high school. So, coaches.

BOWERS HEALEY: Because you get any questions back from your teachers or coaches or neighbors saying, hey, somebody just talked to me today.

TREFFERT: I had a little bit of feedback, but I kind of tried to give a heads up. School back then was very involved. So, they kind of knew or, the recruiters were good about letting the school know, hey, we've got somebody that's, you know, going into the delayed entry program and that kind of thing. So.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. Okay. Now back to the shift work. What were you going to say about shift-- shift work?

TREFFERT: So, typically what they did was anybody that was married that had children or I would say, I can't really say higher ranking, but the enlisted married folks typically got first shift. So, the rest of us that weren't married, single, living in the barracks, got a rotation was six days on second shift, two days off, six days on third shift, then three days off.

BOWERS HEALEY: And how did that go?

TREFFERT: Oh, a third shift is rough. I will not lie. I am not built for third shift. And it was again with the setup the way our barracks were. When you've got one floor that's working a second shift rotation and you've got another floor working a third shift rotation, and then in between there you have a floor 00:29:00that's on their off days. So, sleep was rough.

BOWERS HEALEY: Did they set you up at least with roommates who are on the same shift or not?

TREFFERT: Yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Yes. That was the thing where they like the company and as your platoon and squad, you all did the same shift rotation. And just also because then when you had company training and, outings or whatnot, everybody was all on the same timeframe. That's how they manage PT. Also, you either did it, when we worked third shift than we would do it after shift at like 7:00 in the morning. Second shift, we typically did it before we went in.

BOWERS HEALEY: Tell me if you can, what you were listening to. With Morse code.

TREFFERT: I there again. I was lucky. I don't know how I ended up because let me 00:30:00give you a little bit of background. We actually--so, even though we were based on Schofield Barracks, we actually worked at an underground field. It was called Field Station Kunia. And that actually housed all four branches of the service. That was the secure location where we all went to work every day. On Oahu. Yes. It was actually station. So right across the street from Schofield Barracks was the airfield. And this was basically where the two kind of came together. So, there wasn't a lot of travel and I would say two, three miles down the road, not real far.

BOWERS HEALEY: Did the Army transport you or how did you get there?

TREFFERT: Yeah. But a lot of people had vehicles. So, you just hitched a ride 00:31:00with somebody else. I never bought a vehicle. I just didn't feel the need.

BOWERS HEALEY: Now, you said all services were at-- it's K-U-M--

TREFFERT: N.

BOWERS HEALEY: N like November.

TREFFERT: N as in Nancy. Yup. I-A.

BOWERS HEALEY: I-A. All services there, were they all working on Morse code or not?

TREFFERT: No. So that's where-- So we had, you had to pass a checkpoint to even get into the parking lot. Then there was another checkpoint. There was a big staircase you had to walk up. There was a checkpoint at the top of the stairs. Everybody had a security badge. So, in order to get even to the base of the tunnel, you had to pass through two security checkpoints just to get to work. Then there was those, turnstiles, like, you would see, like in a jail or prison that you had to go through. Yeah, to place your badge and then you could enter. You had another. Quarter mile tunnel that you had to walk just to get into your 00:32:00workstation, I guess. But there, there again, you were always met. And during that checkpoint by military police and your badge. Once inside there were different, I would call them departments for simplicity's sake. We had Morse code operators. There was linguists there that interpret, what Morse code you were actually copying. It was just a big intelligence unit. So, there was all kinds of different things going on within that tunnel. And there was Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines. Everybody was all there. But that facility we also had, we had our own, if you want to call it lunchroom or cafeteria that you could go to. So, when you did have your, your half an hour meal break, you could go up, use 00:33:00your meal card, have your meal or whatnot. But there were many times you would just go up, get a tray, bring your food down, and sit at your little workstation. And then our workstation you were there was usually 8 to 10 people in a squad that you sat in for eight hours. You had the headphones on, and you were just searching for Morse code.

BOWERS HEALEY: Was there always something coming through or not?

TREFFERT: Yes. If you are scrolling through, you should always find something. I was lucky that I was assigned to a section and squad that when we had what they would call active, targets, when it got real interesting, we could turn on CNN 00:34:00and see our work on the screen. In active day. Yes. So that's what I found fascinating. It was-- there's days where it's boring, and they have been doing it for so long that they knew usually on the hour or a half an hour, that there could be things that were live. So, you could be assigned a certain section and that was your section, and you were to copy whatever you would hear. And then that's where the linguist would come in or the analyst.

BOWERS HEALEY: So, Morse code comes in all languages.

TREFFERT: All correct, I hundred percent believe that it is the second universal language.

BOWERS HEALEY: Still being used.

TREFFERT: Still being used today.

BOWERS HEALEY: I will tell you, a lot of us probably think Morse code was back in the cowboy and Indian days.

TREFFERT: All right. Yep. It's very interesting, I think. And I didn't make the 00:35:00connection or think about it until many years later, just having a casual conversation with somebody about what I did or Morse code in general. And I say it's the second universal language because people say sign language is a universal language. But if you think about it, if you don't have eyes to see those signals, Morse code.

BOWERS HEALEY: So how often would you be listening to something which was something other than English, and you're just putting together Morse code?

TREFFERT: We were not covered in English.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. So, did you get feedback? I mean, you're taking Morse code, taking it in a language other than English. And I should ask, do you have any other foreign language other than--

TREFFERT: I do not.

BOWERS HEALEY: You do not. So, you're stringing together Morse code. And did you get any feedback as from the translators as to your accuracy with that?

TREFFERT: Oh, absolutely, yes. Because-- so, the way it was set up is there was two rows. You usually had your back to each other because you're facing your unit. But at the end, let's say you had a section chief or whatever you wanted to title give them. They're the ones-- and again, not everybody is on the same script, you want to call it, but again, you're actively seeking. So, every time that you would come across Morse code, you would dial into that frequency and you literally would just let the head person know, okay, I've got something here, and you just go with it and you copy it until you don't hear. But then that also would cue somebody into your squad that if they didn't-- if they 00:37:00weren't actively copying something, they were out there searching frequencies for the other end of who they were corresponding with. Or sometimes there's more than one end. And by what we were copying, they knew these targets, or I don't know what you would call-- whoever was sending the signals or communicating with each other, these interpreters knew enough of their signals or call signs to know, hey, we might have something here, or they're just throwing out their call signs to do a frequency check. Think of it about like if you've ever heard or listened to a police scanner at night. Every department has what is called a call sign or-- that's distinct to them in particular. They send it in Morse code. And so that's kind of like they're checking in to say, we're here or 00:38:00whatnot. So, if you think of it like that but not us? [Laughs] They-- they knew and they knew at certain times what was being sent and intercepted and relayed back what was going down. And there were times where there were other sections in the field station that were shut down and not working their particular job because what we had going on took priority. And then like I said, there were some people that came into work every day and I say unfortunately, but they were assigned to all of this was they would just copy Morse code that was on those big reel to reel tapes.

BOWERS HEALEY: So, it wasn't live, but it had been recorded.

TREFFERT: It was not live. It had been recorded, but they were just verifying 00:39:00what was on the recording. Again, it's a job, but I loved mine because I knew it was active and happening in real time. And then when we did have those big, important mission times, like I said, you know, a day later, you can turn on CNN and be like, yeah, I did that. You can't tell people you did that [laughs] or you knew, you know?

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. So, when you turned on CNN and you would see something that you'd already listened to, was it because the Army was giving out that information or because that information came in from some other source for CNN? Any idea?

TREFFERT: Um, I think both, actually. Yeah. I didn't really pay much attention 00:40:00to it back then. Just never been a big news person. But I felt like it was more-- I was more in tune to my job and it was just validation of what we did.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And so you were doing that from '91 to '94?

TREFFERT: Yeah. Three and a half years. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: You stayed Schofield Barracks for that long?

TREFFERT: Yes. That was the pleasant surprise. I didn't know with that station of choice, circle back to that, had I chosen any of those other options, you know, Germany, Turkey, Russia, those are only one year. And then you would have been back stateside. But because of the location, the expense of just your goods 00:41:00and all of that, Hawaii ends up being a three year tour. So, by the time I got there, it was three years and a couple of months. So, it wasn't feasible then to send you after three years back stateside or somewhere else for four months, five months. So, yeah, I was lucky enough. I did my entire active duty station in Hawaii. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: And you say lucky enough. Did you enjoy being your liberty time in Hawaii?

TREFFERT: I did. It was yes and no. Being so connected to my family, it was hard because it wasn't like being stateside where you could, you know, hop in a car and road trip home or take a quick flight and that kind of thing. It was a very long flight. I usually did the nonstop from Honolulu to Chicago or Chicago to Honolulu. Eight hour flight. You can-- it only takes like, a little over four 00:42:00hours to drive around the entire island. [Laughs] So, there's not much escape there. But on the flip side, it's Hawaii. It's, you know, there's-- it rains at least once a day somewhere on the island. But it's not a rain or it's not days of rain that are just gloom. And yeah.

BOWERS HEALEY: You mentioned a hurricane. Tell me about that.

TREFFERT: Yes. I lived through Hurricane Iniki back in the day.

BOWERS HEALEY: Go ahead and spell that, please.

TREFFERT: Oh, I think it's I-N-I-K-I. And I thought I've seen storms living-- Lake Michigan is actually my backyard. Grew up with that. And so, there are days where Lake Michigan was angry and you've seen waves and some wind and-- but 00:43:00never ever anything like a hurricane. The power of wind and water to this day. And our barracks had, you know, cinder block walls and all that. So, actually, the married families that lived on base that were part of our company and battalion, they had to come over to our day rooms and wait out the hurricane. And it was actually headed straight for Oahu, the eye of the storm. And at the last minute, it just changed direction and it actually caused a lot of damage on I believe it was Kauai. Not to say that there was not a lot of damage. There 00:44:00were tons of trees down and everything. This, again, shocker, was before cell phones. [Laughs] So, communication with my family, you can imagine they're like, you know, watching all of this on the news. And then with the time change and everything else and collect calls were few and far between going out. If you could get on a phone, I mean, you know, we're talking phone booths in the-- in the barracks and everybody was just taking their turn, updating family. But yeah, I remember sitting in our barracks room watching out the window, just palm trees literally bent in half.

BOWERS HEALEY: wEre you able to go to work during the hurricane?

TREFFERT: We did.

BOWERS HEALEY: How did you get to your work? There was two or three miles down the road.

TREFFERT: I believe they bussed us.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Yeah. So, interesting time.

BOWERS HEALEY: Any damage that you observed the day after?

TREFFERT: Yes. And actually, ironically, if I remember correctly, there was a couple that was scheduled to get married. [Laughs] And so, there was a lot of cleanup on post. Like I said, trees. I don't recall like, a lot of vehicle damage. But yeah, they got married. It was either the next day or the day after, so.

BOWERS HEALEY: All righty. I don't-- and I may have asked or you may have mentioned, but I want to make sure I get in your unit. What was your unit while you were in Hawaii?

TREFFERT: 305th MI Brigade.

BOWERS HEALEY: And MI stands for--

TREFFERT: Military intelligence.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And do they ever want you to do anything other than Morse code in military intelligence? Did the Army?

TREFFERT: No.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And before you got off of active duty, what rank had you achieved?

TREFFERT: Specialist. E-4.

BOWERS HEALEY: E-4. Okay. And you lived in the barracks all of the time?

TREFFERT: Correct.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And at the end of your four years, what decision did you make?

TREFFERT: I was torn. But at that point, I was ready to come home and focus on college. That was part of the initial-- when I enlisted, aside from the family and sense of service, I knew I wasn't ready for college. I just didn't want to waste time or money. But after four years, I was ready to come home and go to college, but I wasn't ready to give it up 100 percent.

BOWERS HEALEY: Wasn't ready to give up the military 100 percent.

TREFFERT: Correct.

BOWERS HEALEY: Before we go on to that, is there anything else about your Hawaii tour of duty and your military intelligence experience that you want to talk 00:47:00about that we didn't cover?

TREFFERT: Um, had I not been stationed there, I don't think my parents would have ever gotten there. And so, one year was when my younger sister was a senior in high school, instead of coming home for Christmas, my mom and dad and my younger sister and my best friend at the time made the trip. And they came I believe it was-- they were there for like a week or ten days. And yeah, to this day, I don't know that they would have ever gotten to travel or see that and-- or much less where I was stationed. So, that was a-- that was a bonus that I was able to get them out there and we had that time there.

BOWERS HEALEY: All right. Okay. So, you got off of active duty and where did you go when you were discharged?

TREFFERT: Came back to Manitowoc.

BOWERS HEALEY: Were you discharged right from Hawaii?

TREFFERT: No, actually, they didn't do discharge at that time on Oahu, so I had to out process in Seattle.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And my parents actually flew out to meet me. And then we road tripped it home after I out processed. [Both laugh]

BOWERS HEALEY: So, they got to Seattle also--

TREFFERT: They did.

BOWERS HEALEY: --as a bonus.

TREFFERT: Correct. Yep. So, that was kind of the goal is being single and the travel that came with it, the-- the more places I could get them to with the experience. So yeah, they flew out. We spent a couple of days in Seattle and then drove home.

BOWERS HEALEY: Other than to come back, when you were in Hawaii, to come back home, did the military send you any other base or location to do your Morse code work or was it right there?

TREFFERT: No. Just Hawaii.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. Now, you said you didn't want to completely give it up. So, what other plans when you got off of active duty or were you still on active 00:49:00duty? What did you plan to do in terms of military service?

TREFFERT: So, I had the option with the remaining four years of my eight year contract. It was initially boarded as inactive. Before my four years was up, I was working with them in Hawaii to see-- I wasn't sure if there were any military intelligence units in Wisconsin to begin with. There was a unit in Milwaukee that had a satellite location in Two Rivers, which worked out perfectly. That was more of a communications unit detachment, I think they refer to it as, and I'm just going to look-- I think that was-- it was a Signal 00:50:00company out of Milwaukee.

BOWERS HEALEY: 357th Brigade Signal Company sound right?

TREFFERT: Yeah, that sounds right.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And so I was able to change that inactive status to active National Guard for four years and be assigned to the unit in Two Rivers. It was not Morse code, but it was on the communication side. Secure communications.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And ironically, my squad leader that I was assigned to in that unit is Hawaiian. [Laughs] So. That was kind of nice. I brought a little bit of home to her and yeah, it was kind of nice. There was a familiarity there, so the transition was not too drastic.

BOWERS HEALEY: And then you had that billet for four years?

TREFFERT: Correct.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And then what happened?

TREFFERT: Well, I was doing college at the time. I did two years at the UW extension in Manitowoc. And after that, I decided to transfer to Oshkosh to finish off my bachelor's degree. So, I was going back and forth from Oshkosh to Two Rivers on drill weekends. At four years, I signed a three year extension. Again, wasn't quite ready [laughs] to give it up. So, yeah, I did the three year extension, but then that kind of got me with the traveling back and forth, especially in wintertime. I thought, okay, let's do something different. So, I 00:52:00transferred to the National Guard unit in Oshkosh. That was 1157 Transportation Company. Something I was not familiar with. So, I just-- I took the position in unit supply.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And I did that for three years while I-- I had completed my bachelor's degree while I was there and then joined the civilian workforce. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And you-- your bachelor's was in what?

TREFFERT: My bachelor's is of Science in Criminal Justice.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And then you transfered to the civilian workforce.

TREFFERT: I did.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And when was that?

TREFFERT: 2000-- I graduated January of 2000 from UW-Oshkosh.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And I went into-- I actually got hired at the Manitowoc Police Department. So, back to hometown. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: And you're happy and comfortable with that, being in Manitowoc?

TREFFERT: My-- yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: Did you live with your parents for most of the time or not?

TREFFERT: I did for the two years that I was going to the UW.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: And then when I returned, uh, yes, I actually lived with them for a short period of time. But the hiring requirements for the police department, you had to live within the city limits. And unfortunately, they lived just a mile out the city limits. So, then I actually moved into my mom's childhood home that my uncle was living in and had a upstairs apartment. So, yeah, it was-- it was 00:54:00nice feeling at home. It was my grandparents' house, so I was comfortable.

BOWERS HEALEY: Would you-- were you able to use veterans education benefits for college?

TREFFERT: I did. And it was twofold, actually, for me, though, because I used some of my GI Bill. But I also, being in the National Guard, had fifty percent tuition reimbursement at that time.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: So, I was doing full-- school full time. I was in the National Guard yet, and I also worked a part time job at night just because I-- I mean, at that point in time, when I got to Oshkosh, I was twenty-three, twenty-four. The college life, it just wasn't me. I mean, I never was that anyway. So, yeah, it was regular get up, go to school, work a part time job at night. And then I had 00:55:00my reserve duty.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And then you went to work for the Manitowoc Police Department?

TREFFERT: Yes.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And how long did you work there? And what did you do there?

TREFFERT: I was a patrol officer. I was there two years. And then during that time, I had met my now husband. But he was in Fond du Lac. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. [Laughs]

TREFFERT: So, at that point in time, two years into it, I looked at relocating here because he already had three girls. And so, I took a job with North Fond du Lac Police Department. And did that just short term until we decided to start 00:56:00our own business together. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: Oh, okay.

TREFFERT: We had the opportunity. And so, yeah.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. What sort of business did you start?

TREFFERT: We have owned and operated a diesel repair shop for-- I think we're in year twenty-one now.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay. And did you know anything about diesel repair?

TREFFERT: Nothing. [Bowers Healey laughs] Nothing. My background with military and law enforcement and corrections. Nothing. [Laughs] We had the opportunity that he could open the shop just based on some family things for him. And so I said, okay, if that's what you want to do. And I was still working third shift 00:57:00in corrections at that time. So, I would do that third shift and then I would go to the shop and try to do some bookwork and invoicing, whatever that entailed. Again, no experience. Didn't know what I was getting myself into but was just trying to support him. And yeah, the rest, they say, is history.

BOWERS HEALEY: And so, since you've gotten out, what, if any, contact have you had with military veteran-- military or veterans organizations?

TREFFERT: I have actually dabbled in quite a bit. I often say I should of continued my education and went to law school like I wanted because I would have been an advocate for veterans. And I've done some volunteer work on veterans 00:58:00boards, always involved with different-- wherever they need me, I guess, whatever I can do. I became involved with this I Am Not Invisible campaign. January of this year. I feel-- actually, I'm shocked a lot of times at-- it's 2023 and we still have a lot of people, they hear the word veteran and still the imagery and equate it to men, even though us females have been here forever. And I ran into that. I had experience when my husband and I bought our first home in Fond du Lac County and we were going-- using the VA home loan. And I often, 00:59:00whenever the question of, well, do you offer veterans benefits or the-- the question is always directed towards him as being the veteran. And I'm like, no, that's me. Hi, I'm here. And so, yeah, I try-- I feel it's very important to get the message across that-- and I don't know how we're going to do it other than campaigns like these for the imagery and the understanding that women are veterans. We have boots on the ground. We've been front lines and behind this, you know, in every capacity. I just don't know what the answer is. But that's why I feel it was important to get involved, do the video, just put yourself out 01:00:00there and experience with my dad, this is where I get emotional. I understand their era. He's just now starting to come around and talk about his experience or service. He's from a generation that it was hard for them, but he also-- not-- although he served during wartime, he, for some reason, doesn't feel his service is as important as those that actually went to war. I don't believe that. Whether it was wartime or not. You served.

BOWERS HEALEY: And your father is still living?

TREFFERT: Yes. Actually, his birthday is four days from now. So, yeah. I don't know where to go with that. I don't know. I don't ever want it to be-- I don't want to be in somebody's face about it. I've never known how to take a compliment for it, because for me, it was always there. It was always-- we circle back to the very beginning. I never saw it is not something I wouldn't do. The more I sit and reflect and think about--

BOWERS HEALEY: And you feel your father and just being around your father was part of that? Of you wanting to serve?

TREFFERT: A hundred percent.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: I was raised very, very patriotic. There was-- there's always flags. We've always never not had a flag. The eagle, that is my dad's favorite. Anybody that's ever known my father, it was-- there's always an American flag. There was always the symbolism. An eagle. He even just on his vehicles, yeah, it was always there. It was always present. It was always-- his service was acknowledged, but he never talked about it. But it was-- yes, it was always there. That's how I was-- I can never think of a time it wasn't there, even if it was just in the background. So, I feel like my mom's upbringing and very strict Catholic, I mean, she has priests and nuns in her family and stuff. And 01:03:00so, I feel like that was a sense of service, if that makes any sense to some. And then with my dad in that duty, his brother served during Vietnam, and we have that in-- so, just the history in our family, I didn't feel like it was an obligation. I just always felt like that was part of my path. And that's where-- right after basic training so, early on and being eighteen, being so naive to just everything else in the world and growing up small town, [laughs] that was part of it. I didn't-- you can see that there was not stigma, but-- oh, I can't. 01:04:00I'm at a loss for words. Stereotypes or that kind of thing that I didn't want it to carry from generation to generation just based off of other people's experiences or what I was told or how I was raised. I wanted to go out and have those experiences and form my own opinions. I wanted to meet people from other places that had other life experiences and stories and backgrounds and upbringing just to be a more well-rounded person. And I think that is one of the-- I can't say it's a lesson that I learned in the military. It's probably the biggest, most beneficial takeaway I had from my time in service. Not just 01:05:00active duty, but even the National Guard and every opportunity it gave me. Because all walks of life and just different things that-- even different points of view. And I've always since then, I was not like that in high school or as a kid growing up. But today, and my husband will tell you, because he's not that way, I can talk to anybody. I can usually find some common ground with just about anybody to start off a conversation. But I'm not afraid to start a conversation. [Laughs] I am the person-- I will-- I don't need you to approach 01:06:00or be the first one to say hi or how's it going or recognize a struggle. And I think that the military gives you skills, or whether you know it or not, experiences that enable you to do that with all kinds of people. When we travel, I sit next to the stranger on the plane, or you get in a shuttle to take you wherever and you strike up that conversation. But how are you going to know? [Laughs] You know? So, yeah, it's a great life lesson.

BOWERS HEALEY: All right. And before we started this interview, you indicated you told me that you learned about the oral history through the I Am Not 01:07:00Invisible that was held in Manitowoc, which is kind of your hometown, but now you're in Fond du Lac. And you indicated you're interested in having a similar program here in Fond du Lac?

TREFFERT: I am.

BOWERS HEALEY: Okay.

TREFFERT: Yes. Whatever I can do to, again, either host an event, bring this campaign to this area to get more veterans involved on any level.

BOWERS HEALEY: I will take that information back to the Veterans Museum. All right. We covered a lot of territory. Is there anything else that you would like to add or that we didn't cover?

TREFFERT: I don't know. I would like to say for any of those out there that may see this, hear this, don't be afraid to ask questions. If you're curious whether 01:08:00it's, you know, about a veteran's particular experience or if it's just military in general, my youngest nephew has been now-- he's on going on third-- he'll be the third generation raised with military background, stories, and all that kind of stuff. Whatever it brings to him, great. He's very much into history and all that and like, war history and stuff, so who knows? We'll see. But I think talking and don't be-- don't be afraid to reach out. I know it's harder with the older generations, but I mean, I even look at myself. I don't consider myself old, but I know there's generations after me that have been through it. And 01:09:00yeah, I think we have to, with so much going on in the world, make it okay for people to talk about it however they need to. I think that's about it. [Laughs]

BOWERS HEALEY: That's very good. Thank you. I appreciate you taking your time out.

TREFFERT: Thank you for doing this.

BOWERS HEALEY: And we thank you for your service in the Army as well as in the Army National Guard. So, thank you very much.

TREFFERT: Best job I ever had.