Oral History Interview with Kerry E. McAllen

[Interview Begins]

SPRAGUE: Today is November 1st, 2023. This is an interview with Kerry Macallan, who served in the United States Army from 1990 to 2020.

MCALLEN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Veterans Home in Madison, Wisconsin. For the I am not Invisible project for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum. No one else is present in the room. Okay, Kerry, if you could tell me a little bit about where you grew up.

MCALLEN: I grew up in Cottage Grove, Wisconsin, and I pretty much. Grew up in Cottage Grove. Lived there my whole life until I left for the Army.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Pretty much went off to the army. And when I came back.

MCALLEN: I joined the.

MCALLEN: I came back to Madison.

MCALLEN: And went.

MCALLEN: To school and stayed in the military. And. And so I left. I left home, but then came back home. So. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And what did your family do in Madison?

MCALLEN: My father.

MCALLEN: He ran a.

MCALLEN: Food equipment.

MCALLEN: Business.

MCALLEN: Called Hobart.

MCALLEN: And my mom was a stay at home mother. And.

MCALLEN: And I have two sisters.

MCALLEN: And they.

MCALLEN: They both went to college.

MCALLEN: And and they've.

MCALLEN: Since left Madison.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: Live on the East Coast. And that's where they they remain.

MCALLEN: So I'm the only one that came.

MCALLEN: Came back after leaving.

SPRAGUE: So you said Cottage Grove. Where did you go to school?

MCALLEN: So I went to a Grove High school. All three of us girls did. And so I.

MCALLEN: Graduated in 1990.

MCALLEN: And so I played and played some sports. And I studied sort of some of the business things. Deca. And did the sort of the feel, the typing and. Office procedures and things like that. Which I didn't realize I would actually use in the future.

MCALLEN: Um, in, in my current.

MCALLEN: Career that I did outside of the military. So, uh, so I study those things. So lots of sports and.

MCALLEN: And business and some language.

SPRAGUE: So what sports in particular?

MCALLEN: Softball was the.

MCALLEN: Only one i.

MCALLEN: I, I, I did the varsity level. And otherwise, a little basketball. I was really bad at it. I, I started that late. And I'm also very short of her. Okay.

SPRAGUE: So what made you start thinking about the military as a possible career?

MCALLEN: Well. So my my father was I was in the National Guard for six years. And as we were growing up, he talked about it pretty often. He would tell stories about.

MCALLEN: Going to Camp McCoy.

MCALLEN: And and, you know, he drove trucks.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Things like that. And I always thought that was kind of interesting. I think I hear the sound of freedom flying over right now. Two of 35. So we should pause. Just take that in.

Unidentified It's kind of loud. Um.

MCALLEN: So. So he, um, we talked about that a lot.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And so anyway, I.

MCALLEN: Really didn't think much.

MCALLEN: About it. But as I entered my senior year in high school, I really hadn't I didn't apply to any colleges or anything like that. I really wasn't prepared or thinking about going to college or anything like that. And I was at home.

MCALLEN: Sick one day and.

MCALLEN: The recruiter called my house.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: I answered.

MCALLEN: And and he.

MCALLEN: Asked me if I had plans to go to college. And I said.

MCALLEN: Well, no, not really.

MCALLEN: And he asked, Well, what do you think.

MCALLEN: About joining the Army?

MCALLEN: And I thought.

MCALLEN: And I remembered.

MCALLEN: My dad and his.

MCALLEN: Time in the military and neither.

MCALLEN: Yeah, that sounds pretty cool. And here it was about November my senior year, and I'm like, Oh hell, this sounds pretty cool. And he's probably.

MCALLEN: Near.

MCALLEN: Fell off his chair. And and so next thing I know I was I was.

MCALLEN: At the maps I signed up and, and I.

MCALLEN: I, I signed up and I wanted to go into military intelligence and.

MCALLEN: You know, and everything.

MCALLEN: They're like.

MCALLEN: We don't.

MCALLEN: Have a job for you. And I was like, I don't know, how about something practical? And I asked about mechanic and that recruiter, Dang, he fell off his chair, you know.

MCALLEN: Find in that.

MCALLEN: Big old DVD, you know, to shove in the machine to show me how cool that could be. And so that real cool machine.

MCALLEN: And I had.

MCALLEN: These trucks.

MCALLEN: Driving all over and.

MCALLEN: Which was way cooler than my job was. But I was like, all right. So I signed up to be a to be a mechanic. And so, so I did that.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: I got a nice little bonus and everything. And so I that's what I did. So I signed up by January of my senior year, I was all signed.

MCALLEN: Up to be a mechanic and and three years. And then I ended up.

MCALLEN: The following.

MCALLEN: Summer. I went off to be.

MCALLEN: A for three years. I went off to active duty.

MCALLEN: It ended up going over to Germany and and super exciting and I.

MCALLEN: Was really stoked and I think my dad was really proud.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Glad I followed in his footsteps. So. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. And what times did your father serve in?

MCALLEN: He was in.

MCALLEN: Between.

MCALLEN: Korea.

MCALLEN: And Vietnam.

MCALLEN: So it was, I guess 55, 56, so into early 60s, so somewhere in there. So yeah, so six years. So he graduated high school in 55.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: Nobody got him.

MCALLEN: To sign up.

MCALLEN: So 55 to 60.

MCALLEN: 61 and then he ended up.

MCALLEN: Getting out because he got a job in Pittsburgh with Hobart as a salesman. And so then he just he got out so he could start his career for.

SPRAGUE: Were you in the delayed entry program?

MCALLEN: I was.

MCALLEN: From from 90 1990 until January until 19, ah, August of 90.

MCALLEN: Now. But I didn't drill or anything because I was in a guard. In the guard I was active duty. So so I just went to finished high school career, took the summer off.

MCALLEN: And and then went off to basic and August.

MCALLEN: Had I joined right away right after graduation and I probably.

MCALLEN: Would have gone to Desert.

MCALLEN: Storm. So because Desert Shield started like August, September or something like that, that kicked off while I was in training.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: Desert Storm kicked off.

MCALLEN: In January and I was still in my.

MCALLEN: 80. And of course, trainees can't go go over. So had I gone to Basic.

MCALLEN: In.

MCALLEN: July July, I probably would have had a better chance of getting over to to Desert Storm. But I. I missed it by who.

MCALLEN: Knows, you know.

MCALLEN: Whatever it was, it was a shot in the dark because some of the people I went to my site with got sent right over to a unit that was over there.

MCALLEN: And some of them didn't. I didn't.

MCALLEN: And I also went to an additional school after I ended up graduating at the top of my class. And I got an opportunity to.

MCALLEN: Go on to.

MCALLEN: A recovery specialist school for an additional two weeks so that that changed the, you know, change the odds as well.

SPRAGUE: So where did you go to basic?

MCALLEN: I went to Fort Dix. New Jersey. So that was back when there still was all just it was still so segregated. It was.

MCALLEN: Women only. And so.

MCALLEN: Yep. Fort Dix.

MCALLEN: And then my dad.

MCALLEN: Was there as well. So they just put.

MCALLEN: Me in a.

MCALLEN: Back of a truck and in our dress classes and get in the back of a truck and hold us across the base and let us off at our at our 84 mechanics.

MCALLEN: And and then we got into our new class and and I think they smoked us.

MCALLEN: On our first day. But it.

SPRAGUE: Basically I.

MCALLEN: Tell you, they smoked us worse and I t than they did in basic training. That was surprising. Yeah.

MCALLEN: There was no mercy.

MCALLEN: Oh, for those mechanics.

SPRAGUE: And for those civilians out there. What is smoked mean?

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah, Well, they, um. It was like a punishment. Yeah. Yeah. And all push ups and dying cockroach. Lay on your back and.

MCALLEN: Ride.

MCALLEN: With your legs.

MCALLEN: Feet your hands up in the air and.

MCALLEN: Roll after all right. And they didn't care if you were in.

MCALLEN: Your fancy.

MCALLEN: Uniform.

MCALLEN: Or not.

SPRAGUE: Oh.

MCALLEN: Well, they didn't do too bad.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Because they'd have to replace it.

SPRAGUE: Yeah.

MCALLEN: Yeah. Yeah. But, uh.

SPRAGUE: So you had mentioned in the pre-interview about the drill sergeants going nuts when they found out about Desert Storm.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, Tell me a little bit about that.

MCALLEN: Yeah. So, yeah, these poor drill sergeants. And so the drill sergeants in our 80.

MCALLEN: We're learning to be mechanics.

MCALLEN: They the war was kicking off. I mean, it was very.

MCALLEN: Imminent and.

MCALLEN: They were stuck training.

MCALLEN: Us and they all wanted.

MCALLEN: To get in the action. They wanted to get out to be in drill sergeants.

MCALLEN: And they wanted to go over.

MCALLEN: To Saudi Arabia.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Go to the war. And I mean, of course, at the same time they're talking to us as the trainees and telling us, Privates, you better learn privates, you better learn, you better pay attention to what we're training. You're going to be going over to war. You can be going. We're going to be going over to Saudi. And so they're they're getting us all ginned up, you know, privates. And same time, they're like they knew they couldn't leave because they were.

MCALLEN: They were on.

MCALLEN: Their.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: They're doing their.

MCALLEN: Time and they can't.

MCALLEN: They can't leave. So they're they're being.

MCALLEN: Punched in the.

MCALLEN: Walls because they can't leave. They're they're drill sergeant duty.

MCALLEN: And their wish.

MCALLEN: And they could go and then but the same time they're telling us, privates, you better pay attention, you better, you better learn, you know, learn everything you can here because you go you're going over to Saudi Arabia, you're.

MCALLEN: Going to war, you're going to war.

MCALLEN: So we're getting.

MCALLEN: All ginned up and.

MCALLEN: Like, we're going we're going to combat. So we all were thinking when we were leaving 80.

MCALLEN: We're going to a unit that's going.

MCALLEN: Over or we're going we're going to go directly to Saudi Arabia. That's what we were all thinking at that time. So it was interesting.

MCALLEN: Watching them climb the.

MCALLEN: Walls because they couldn't leave Fort Dix. And then at the same time.

MCALLEN: We're all going and.

MCALLEN: Thinking we're going. And at the same time, I think a lot of people might remember this is this.

MCALLEN: Is when.

MCALLEN: The 24 hour news cycle started, because this was when.

MCALLEN: CNN first came out. It's 1990, 1991, and CNN was on.

MCALLEN: All the time. And we we were supposed to be able to go into the day.

MCALLEN: Room and watch the news.

MCALLEN: As often as we as we did. But because there was a war, we got to peek.

MCALLEN: In.

MCALLEN: Every for a few.

MCALLEN: Minutes every now and again.

MCALLEN: Because of the war. And so we got to peak in and watch Wolf Blitzer talk about the news.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Watch The Patriot, you know, watch the Scuds and the Patriots blow them out of the sky and.

MCALLEN: This and that.

MCALLEN: And we heard about the the the Scud that hit the barracks that took out that caused the most American casualties at the time. So so we got to see that happen. And so that was unique because.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: TV is restricted.

MCALLEN: Severely in those training environments.

MCALLEN: At least they used to be. And but because of the war and because of CNN.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: That new.

MCALLEN: Trend.

MCALLEN: I remember that that was a big deal back then. So yeah, back.

SPRAGUE: Thank you. Okay. Okay, cool. So what were you thinking at the time? Were you were you thinking you were missing the war or what?

MCALLEN: Yeah. I mean.

MCALLEN: When you're in that environment, you know.

MCALLEN: Your world is pretty small.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: You you know, you can't. You can't just pick up the phone all the time and call people. I mean, of course, there weren't cell phones. He had to use the payphone. And of course, that was restricted. Cell phones are restricted. I'm sorry. The payphones were restricted.

MCALLEN: And no Internet at the time.

MCALLEN: And so you were. And, of course, TV was restricted. World is real small, so you just believe in what you're told. And that's where your mindset is.

MCALLEN: And that's.

MCALLEN: Why.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: During the military, you think, well, you can go to war.

MCALLEN: I mean, I joined the military for four.

MCALLEN: I didn't.

MCALLEN: Join. I joined for the adventure, the excitement.

MCALLEN: I wasn't going to college. I didn't join it for the college money.

MCALLEN: I mean, I did sign up. I didn't I didn't I.

MCALLEN: Didn't sign up for college.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: I didn't think about that at the time.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: There was they did say, hey, if you.

MCALLEN: Spend an extra.

MCALLEN: Pay 100 bucks a month for 12 months, you will get this kicker and.

MCALLEN: You know, all.

MCALLEN: Kinds of extra.

MCALLEN: Money. I'm like, Well, I may as well.

MCALLEN: Just in case. But I didn't do it because that's what I.

MCALLEN: Wanted to.

MCALLEN: Do. I did it for the.

MCALLEN: Excitement or.

MCALLEN: The.

MCALLEN: The thing I'm going to do.

MCALLEN: For the next three years. That's what I did.

MCALLEN: And but then all of a sudden, I had no idea there was anything going on in the Middle East.

MCALLEN: So it was just. So, yeah, it's like, well, okay, now we got, you know, and of course that's what you know, okay, we're going to go to war.

MCALLEN: Holy smokes.

MCALLEN: And it was it was it was kind of it was.

MCALLEN: I mean, things were kind of getting.

MCALLEN: Real, but it was it was.

MCALLEN: Just kind of a young, dumb, dumb.

MCALLEN: Kid, too. But I'm like, well. It's kind of exciting, but it's scary. Exciting.

SPRAGUE: But tell me about your your test results. You mentioned that during the pre-interview.

MCALLEN: Oh, I did? Mm hmm. I did. But like, early on or something.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, you did early on. And in comparison to the rest of the people in the unit.

MCALLEN: Oh. Okay. Well, I guess that's why I got to go to that extra class.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So, yeah, in.

MCALLEN: In my.

MCALLEN: A i t.

MCALLEN: I.

MCALLEN: I, I scored at the top of the class. I got the highest grades.

MCALLEN: And in my.

MCALLEN: Mechanics course I scored at the top of the class for academics.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: I got the highest score I think for overall or I think I beat even the guys, I think definitely all the women. And so I got the Distinguished Honor grad.

MCALLEN: And and all.

MCALLEN: That. So.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So yeah, I, I just kept going back up on stage.

MCALLEN: And getting all the.

MCALLEN: Awards and all this stuff. Yeah.

MCALLEN: So, so then they gave.

MCALLEN: The, so then those of us, there was a handful of us that with we, there was a handful of us, those who graduated at the top of the class, like 4 or 5 of us who graduated top of the class.

MCALLEN: Could.

MCALLEN: We got an opportunity to go.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: An additional skill identifier class called Let's see our recovery specialists will recovery specialist course. And so so that was it. But but the the p T was part of it, I think. I guess the reason.

MCALLEN: I must have mentioned that.

MCALLEN: Was because I, I, I got a higher score than all the guys and I think, I mean. That was it.

MCALLEN: Mm hmm. And.

MCALLEN: But. But like I said.

MCALLEN: We, um.

MCALLEN: I think that was the thing. And I heard all that so long ago.

MCALLEN: But it's kind of funny.

SPRAGUE: So it used to be the top score of without the extended scale was like 300.

MCALLEN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: And then did you go out on the extended scale and figure out what your score was?

MCALLEN: Oh, I don't remember that. Yeah. Yeah, I.

MCALLEN: I've been out on that extended.

MCALLEN: Scale a couple of times. Yeah.

MCALLEN: Yeah. I mean.

MCALLEN: Back in the day. Yeah. Yeah, They changed that all. Now what? But, uh.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So then after 80, you ended up going to Germany.

MCALLEN: I went to Germany. They sent me to Wiesbaden, Germany.

MCALLEN: Beautiful town.

MCALLEN: Yep. And so there I was, assigned as a wrecker operator.

MCALLEN: And so I.

MCALLEN: Was the smallest soldier with the biggest truck was the only five ton. So that was.

MCALLEN: Fun. And then I.

MCALLEN: Was the assistant driver to. A sergeant who just came back from Saudi. So. So that was.

MCALLEN: Fun.

MCALLEN: And so he knew all the ropes. And so I was his assistant driver. And so I got to work alongside.

MCALLEN: Him and.

MCALLEN: He was great. So he was, uh, he was.

MCALLEN: From Tennessee and.

MCALLEN: I believe.

MCALLEN: And he.

MCALLEN: Would refer to himself as a hillbilly. So it was fun. Yeah. So.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: And so it was great. You know, he was a great guy.

MCALLEN: I liked working with him and.

MCALLEN: Yeah, it was great. You know, that was a fun thing about the military. You, you know, you meet people from all over and just get to get to get to meet so many different people.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And learn about where they come.

MCALLEN: From and and.

MCALLEN: Who they are.

MCALLEN: And just.

MCALLEN: Get to appreciate all kinds of different people and what makes them who they are. And I and that's just I think that's one of the most important aspects that I've I've gleaned.

MCALLEN: From my.

MCALLEN: Military experience, especially from the active duty, because, I mean, it was every day and you could go, you can't get away from it. You're forced to to deal with people. You can't just like you can't just run away from the experience. And that's active duty.

MCALLEN: And it's during deployments and and the.

MCALLEN: Military I always call military the great integrator. You're forced to just deal with it and.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And the rules and policies surrounding the military force. I mean make it work like, sorry, this is the way it's going to be because we have a mission and because of that mission, you will get along. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: What unit was that in Wiesbaden?

MCALLEN: That was the third of 58th Aviation. It was an air traffic control.

MCALLEN: Unit.

SPRAGUE: In any particular company or platoon.

MCALLEN: It was Alpha.

MCALLEN: Company.

MCALLEN: I it's pretty the company.

MCALLEN: It's a small.

MCALLEN: Was there platoon. I don't think so. Just Alpha Company. Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And when was that from to about roughly.

MCALLEN: So 91 to 93.

MCALLEN: Okay. Yeah. There was a short while at the.

MCALLEN: End for six months, they sent me.

MCALLEN: They sent me up to up to Hanno. Because I, I didn't have enough time to PC us back to the States. So they just kind of extended me and sent me to.

MCALLEN: One of the other.

MCALLEN: Companies.

MCALLEN: In Hanno just for six months. And I.

MCALLEN: Just worked as a mechanic up there because they were.

MCALLEN: Getting.

MCALLEN: Another wrecker operator to fill my spot. So they sent me out there just to.

MCALLEN: Round out my time. So I spent a short time up there.

SPRAGUE: Okay. What were some of the more unique experiences you had as a record operator in Germany?

MCALLEN: Oh, well.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Driving towing like deuce and a half through the small streets.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: That's always.

MCALLEN: Fun. You know.

MCALLEN: You have to definitely know how to use your mirrors and make sure you're not going to clip not just vehicles, but buildings, because it's pretty narrow.

MCALLEN: And the buildings.

MCALLEN: Are can be very tight, close to the, the, you know, streets. So, yeah, I had to become very proficient at making sure that I.

MCALLEN: I knew how to, you know.

MCALLEN: I could get through everything.

MCALLEN: And I never.

MCALLEN: Did have an accident with what?

MCALLEN: I was towing the vehicles. So I've driven on the outer bands through the narrow.

MCALLEN: City streets.

MCALLEN: Towns, village.

MCALLEN: Streets.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Yeah, so there's a lot of that.

MCALLEN: And then, you.

MCALLEN: Know, you have, you know, I'd have to take that, use the crane.

MCALLEN: And pull things, you know, off.

MCALLEN: The back of the vehicle and prepare vehicles to take.

MCALLEN: In.

MCALLEN: Into for higher level maintenance. So you have to do a lot of that. Sometimes people. The unit members.

MCALLEN: Around sometimes would get in the way and.

MCALLEN: Would throw things back.

MCALLEN: Into my truck that didn't belong.

MCALLEN: And so.

MCALLEN: Unfortunately, one time they took one.

MCALLEN: Of my chalk blocks, which was a metal.

MCALLEN: Frame.

MCALLEN: Chalk block, which is.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: About this big, you know, it's triangular.

MCALLEN: And, and they.

MCALLEN: Chucked it.

MCALLEN: Back into my.

MCALLEN: My vehicle where it didn't belong. There's a specific spot for.

MCALLEN: Everything on my.

MCALLEN: Wrecker. And I was putting everything back. I was rotating.

MCALLEN: My.

MCALLEN: What we call the crow's nest back into.

MCALLEN: The position and they'd thrown it.

MCALLEN: Thrown my chalk block in there and it's just solid steel, steel frame, chock block. And it got.

MCALLEN: Up into into my the main.

MCALLEN: Pump for.

MCALLEN: Rotating my.

MCALLEN: My crow's nest back around the crane all the.

MCALLEN: Way around. And I couldn't I'm trying to move.

MCALLEN: The crane back in.

MCALLEN: Position and it wouldn't.

MCALLEN: Go. And I'm like, what the heck?

MCALLEN: Well, on not to.

MCALLEN: Me it was it.

MCALLEN: Was jamming up against.

MCALLEN: The chalk block. And then finally I was gone. And all of a sudden squirting hydraulic fluid everywhere. Well, that deadline my vehicle right there. And so that was a real bad situation.

MCALLEN: I didn't know it.

MCALLEN: So people trying to be helpful, but it broke my put my damn truck right out on the airfield, too.

MCALLEN: And I mean, it.

MCALLEN: Was drivable, but I.

MCALLEN: Couldn't you know, I had just enough.

MCALLEN: Fluid, I mean, finally and we pulled it back and.

MCALLEN: Walk around and I was.

MCALLEN: Like, you know, I had to pull out.

MCALLEN: And I'm like, what?

MCALLEN: What the. What the. I mean.

MCALLEN: I didn't get in trouble or anything, but, you know, you don't know.

MCALLEN: So I had just enough fluid to get it back and where I needed to be to store everything. And we had to.

MCALLEN: Go find and find another one of.

MCALLEN: Those and get it off a junk vehicle and replace it. I was sad. I was my truck. That's 30 years ago. I'm so sad about it.

SPRAGUE: Any any other memorable people in addition to that sergeant, that you remember from that unit?

MCALLEN: Oh, sure, Absolutely. Tons of people. Yeah. I mean, I had a a.

MCALLEN: A.

MCALLEN: Good buddy that I traveled with. I he went by Duke.

MCALLEN: Manuel.

MCALLEN: Vega.

MCALLEN: You. I were, you know.

MCALLEN: We got there about the same.

MCALLEN: Time.

MCALLEN: But he and I, we traveled a.

MCALLEN: Lot and we go downtown a lot and just chill around.

MCALLEN: A lot. So, yeah, he, uh, he was a signal guy, but yeah, so we were. We were just friends, buddies and just hung out a lot.

MCALLEN: Um, yeah, I mean, all.

MCALLEN: Pretty much all the folks.

MCALLEN: In the, in motor pool, we hung out a.

MCALLEN: Lot and, you know.

MCALLEN: Go downtown and, you know, party and, you know, that kind of thing.

MCALLEN: Just hang out in each other's barracks room.

MCALLEN: Socialize and and all that.

MCALLEN: And there was one of the mechanics that I worked with. We didn't socialize a lot, but he just was always so smart, so calm.

MCALLEN: And we'd.

MCALLEN: Give classes. And I just remember he came later and I remember he was just so damn smart.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: He really impressed me. Yeah. So I learned a lot from him. But one hour motor.

MCALLEN: Sergeant, when.

MCALLEN: I first got there, Jerry Belsky, he was he was super smart. He was older. He I think he was he was 32, I think. And he was he was a sergeant.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Married to having kids. We just had a wife and he and his wife were over there and. He was excellent.

MCALLEN: He was an excellent mechanic.

MCALLEN: Super, super, super good leader.

MCALLEN: Really good.

MCALLEN: All that. He's rich. I thought, man, you're just. You're great for the army. I was like, Yeah, but I'm out of here.

MCALLEN: You know?

MCALLEN: Yeah, Yeah. I remember one time I got in trouble.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: He had to supervise some extra duty and I felt so bad because he is supervising. And then he's, like, helping.

MCALLEN: And I'm like, Oh, man, knock it off, man.

MCALLEN: I mean, it's just like, I felt so bad. I was like, Oh, man. Oh, because he's such a nice guy, such a good soldier and all this stuff.

MCALLEN: And I always I never and I'm.

MCALLEN: Just one of those guys.

MCALLEN: I wanted to.

MCALLEN: Deal with.

MCALLEN: I wanted to emulate.

MCALLEN: Him, you know, he was just.

MCALLEN: Awesome. And then I.

MCALLEN: Realized, you know, that's those are the guys you want to have, you know, be.

MCALLEN: Like and have around you.

MCALLEN: But it's like they're hard to keep around. Hmm.

SPRAGUE: Well, what was your were there any experiences for you as a woman in that unit that were not as much fun or difficult to deal with?

MCALLEN: Well, I think in general, I have pretty thick.

MCALLEN: Skin as a woman. But I mean, in the Army, you know, definitely women are generally outnumbered. I mean, as a mechanic, um.

MCALLEN: There were two of.

MCALLEN: Us women in the in the motor.

MCALLEN: Pool. The other one was a mechanic, but she didn't ever turn wrenches.

MCALLEN: She and.

MCALLEN: She, but she found a job for herself. And I had a lot of respect for her because she's like.

MCALLEN: I'm not going to do that.

MCALLEN: But she did. She did work. PLL clerk So she was doing parts.

MCALLEN: And, you know, kind.

MCALLEN: Of some logistical stuff which, which was.

MCALLEN: Something that needed to be done.

MCALLEN: And we had a computer then. And so she was doing that work she was.

MCALLEN: Doing.

MCALLEN: And she was going to run it and getting parts and doing all that. And so she was definitely filling a role that needed to be done. And she didn't.

MCALLEN: She didn't.

MCALLEN: Complain.

MCALLEN: She she was doing a job.

MCALLEN: So but she's like.

MCALLEN: I mean, she had.

MCALLEN: She had fingernails. She did she had makeup, she had all that. But she did a job. And she did. She was pleasant. She was fun.

MCALLEN: Funny.

MCALLEN: And and she was all great. So. So she so.

MCALLEN: I mean, there are.

MCALLEN: Definitely some.

MCALLEN: Women in the military.

MCALLEN: That are in positions.

MCALLEN: And then they.

MCALLEN: Don't do their job and then they use their sexuality to get around doing their jobs. That is not that woman. So. So but I, I end up.

MCALLEN: Doing the mechanics.

MCALLEN: So if I did my job, I, I, you know, a tribunal. I did all, you know, I'm like, you know, I did everything I liked. I did all that. So but there were two of us. But, but definitely it was obviously, definitely a male dominated role job.

MCALLEN: And as you know, whatever environment.

MCALLEN: And so, yeah, there's definitely always dudes walking.

MCALLEN: Around and.

MCALLEN: Who smile, you know, and you know what, You know, there's always extra attention and everything and it's just like I was always, I think I was.

MCALLEN: Naive.

MCALLEN: About.

MCALLEN: It and just.

MCALLEN: Played it off. And I just.

MCALLEN: You know, I was just.

MCALLEN: Doing my job and whatever. And.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: I didn't I didn't really have any issues because I just either I didn't. I just.

MCALLEN: I don't know, I guess.

MCALLEN: Either I was just.

MCALLEN: Too dumb about it.

MCALLEN: Or thick.

MCALLEN: Skinned or, I mean, you know, and.

MCALLEN: I just.

MCALLEN: I didn't pay much attention, I guess So.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: I mean, I.

MCALLEN: I like to have a.

MCALLEN: Good time with anybody, so, you know, I. I mean, as long as people are being.

MCALLEN: Respectful to me, um, I'll just.

MCALLEN: Dive in and be one of the.

MCALLEN: Boys.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So what made you decide you wanted to leave active duty?

MCALLEN: Oh, after a while, I guess I. I guess I felt like. I wanted a little more freedom.

MCALLEN: You know, I'm. Maybe I didn't want.

MCALLEN: I guess I was just ready to get back to civilian life. And I thought, well, maybe now I'm ready for college.

MCALLEN: I did.

MCALLEN: Start taking some college courses while I.

MCALLEN: Was in in the military.

MCALLEN: While I was active duty. So I think I had probably completed four, maybe five courses.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: So got my feet wet.

MCALLEN: Doing.

MCALLEN: That. I figured, well.

MCALLEN: You know, I did my time.

MCALLEN: I think I'm ready to go. So I went ahead and applied. I got into the UW.

MCALLEN: Madison and.

MCALLEN: So I was all.

MCALLEN: Set and I.

MCALLEN: Decided, let's just let's go ahead and do that. So I did.

MCALLEN: And unbeknownst to.

MCALLEN: Me.

MCALLEN: When I went to.

MCALLEN: Out process it again at Fort Dix, the recruiters were there. So as I got processed, I got hit up by.

MCALLEN: The the National Guard.

MCALLEN: Recruiter.

MCALLEN: And then got.

MCALLEN: Hit up by the reserve recruiter. And I just thought to myself, well, I just did three years active duty part time. I should be able to do that.

MCALLEN: Standing on my head. So again.

MCALLEN: Thinking about my dad and.

MCALLEN: I joined the.

MCALLEN: Wisconsin Army National Guard.

SPRAGUE: And what year was that?

MCALLEN: About 93.

MCALLEN: Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And so you were in the Wisconsin Army National Guard while going to school?

MCALLEN: Yup. Yup.

SPRAGUE: And what unit was that?

MCALLEN: So a 1/32 support battalion.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And any particular company with.

MCALLEN: I did it was the HHC. Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And what were your, your duties at that unit. What did you do there?

MCALLEN: I was a.

MCALLEN: Mechanic.

MCALLEN: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. We worked.

MCALLEN: On over, on.

MCALLEN: Right street at the it was the.

MCALLEN: Or a mash.

MCALLEN: Shop at the time. Yeah. So was it.

MCALLEN: Organizational maintenance.

MCALLEN: Shop? So? So, yeah.

SPRAGUE: And then what do you remember from coming to that unit of. Of active duty?

MCALLEN: Initially, everybody called each other by their first names. Oh, yeah. Yup. Yeah. That was a big, big one. Yeah. That was a big one.

MCALLEN: But that. And then they had a bar in their armory.

MCALLEN: Which I thought was pretty cool. Yeah. First names. Yeah, it was.

MCALLEN: Something to get.

MCALLEN: Used to. Mm hmm.

SPRAGUE: And what was that like? Being Wisconsin National Guardsmen going to school? And I don't know if you were working at the time as well or what was that? What was that balance like?

MCALLEN: Oh, well, that was it was pretty easy. You know, like I said.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: The same. Pretty easy. Yeah. You know, the, you know, the military part was super easy.

MCALLEN: I think, you know.

MCALLEN: You know, getting used to the the the school thing was, you know, tough.

MCALLEN: Still doing.

MCALLEN: That full time.

MCALLEN: You know, getting into that and being home. You know.

MCALLEN: Just that that.

MCALLEN: Transition.

MCALLEN: Was, you know, just kind of.

MCALLEN: Getting back into that. Just everything's new and and and moving to a new place and, you know, an apartment and everything.

MCALLEN: But it was all it was all okay. You know, I was I was young and.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Ready for ready for the adventure. So, yeah, a lot of.

MCALLEN: New things all at once.

MCALLEN: But I guess I managed. Okay.

SPRAGUE: And when did you how did you graduate and how did that go or what?

MCALLEN: What happened? Well, I, i, I, I ended up moving. I spent a semester at the UW, and I had met somebody while I was in.

MCALLEN: Germany, and I ended.

MCALLEN: Up moving to Texas for about a year and a half. We ended up getting married and I went to Texas for a year and a half because he had peaks to Texas. So so I did that for a while.

MCALLEN: And then we got the.

MCALLEN: Work out. So I came back to.

MCALLEN: Madison and then finished school.

MCALLEN: So a little detour in my life there for a little while. But then I was in the Texas National Guard for that time. So so I was there as a mechanic for about a year and a half and then transfer back to the.

MCALLEN: Wisconsin.

MCALLEN: National Guard.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to remember the Texas Guard unit name?

MCALLEN: Gosh, I don't. I just remember who it was. I'd have to look at my records. But it was a.

MCALLEN: It had an armor.

MCALLEN: Armor patch.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about graduating UW Madison.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And your particular field or what you were looking at?

MCALLEN: Yeah. So I graduated.

MCALLEN: In 99 class in 99.

MCALLEN: It was a communication of arts, radio, television and film, as was my degree. And so I went that road. I thought I was going to get into sound engineering.

MCALLEN: But I did not.

MCALLEN: But. But I did that.

MCALLEN: And I ended up.

MCALLEN: I did. While I was doing that, I was doing some some side work.

MCALLEN: Doing doing some.

MCALLEN: Some shows, doing some sound work, some light, some things for some live performances. At maybe Mitzi the Crystal.

MCALLEN: Grand and.

MCALLEN: A couple other places, I guess. And but anyhow, at the end of it, I realized that there was a lot of heavy work.

MCALLEN: And that's just.

MCALLEN: Not good for my back. And so I realized.

MCALLEN: That's not what I was going to wind up doing.

MCALLEN: And so when I graduated.

MCALLEN: I ended up working.

MCALLEN: For my father. And so my father, well, he.

MCALLEN: Was in the working the.

MCALLEN: The food equipment business. He got into real estate. And so that's what I started.

MCALLEN: Working with him.

MCALLEN: I worked with.

MCALLEN: Him and learning that business.

MCALLEN: And so right.

MCALLEN: Away.

MCALLEN: In July.

MCALLEN: Of 99, I.

MCALLEN: Started working with.

MCALLEN: Him and learned the business from the ground up. And I've been.

MCALLEN: Doing that ever since.

MCALLEN: So so then I.

MCALLEN: Continued to work with, stayed in the military, worked with.

MCALLEN: Him.

MCALLEN: Got my real estate brokers license and continued to serve.

MCALLEN: And in.

MCALLEN: 2004, I got deployed.

MCALLEN: And then again in 2009.

MCALLEN: So he held down the fort while I was deployed.

MCALLEN: And and I guess.

MCALLEN: That worked out okay. It was tough, but it was we worked it out. And so.

SPRAGUE: Okay, so well, back up just a little bit. Yeah. And then we'll come forward to what you've talked about. Yup. So while you were in the guard unit. 99. 98. Mm hmm. You were probably. Were you a E-5 or E-4 yet?

MCALLEN: Well, yeah. Well. Or more. Well, no. So when I joined the guard.

MCALLEN: You know, I was having.

MCALLEN: Such a good.

MCALLEN: Time just hanging out and.

MCALLEN: Being a mechanic.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Just.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Doing whatever. I didn't focus.

MCALLEN: Much on.

MCALLEN: My career.

MCALLEN: And in 99, I was.

MCALLEN: Still a specialist, but I got my degree. And I thought, well.

MCALLEN: Why don't I become an.

MCALLEN: Officer? And so I went.

MCALLEN: To the maps and and.

MCALLEN: They asked, you know, if I had any.

MCALLEN: If I had any.

MCALLEN: Service connected disabilities. And I said, Yep, sure do. Which I did when I got out on active duty. And so I.

MCALLEN: Wrote down everything. And and then they says, well, and.

MCALLEN: They reported back. That got back to the National Guard. And the National Guard says, well.

MCALLEN: Not only are you not going.

MCALLEN: To be an officer, but.

MCALLEN: We're going to.

MCALLEN: Separate you from the National Guard. And I says, what? Because Because I get migraine headaches.

MCALLEN: And I was what?

MCALLEN: And so. I was like, well, I was I was shocked. I'm like, what? I'm just trying to improve myself here. And they're like, Well, I'm sorry, but you're going home.

MCALLEN: And anyways.

MCALLEN: I was just like, okay, wait a minute. So I go to whomever in the office, you know, the personnel people.

MCALLEN: And I'm like, What can I do?

MCALLEN: And, well, you know, you could look up the regulations and stuff. So.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: So that's it. So I looked up, I get all the regulations.

MCALLEN: And I.

MCALLEN: Looked at all it myself and.

MCALLEN: And I.

MCALLEN: Start gathering stuff and pretty much I just researched everything myself.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: I start writing letters, you know, because when they tell you that, they're like, Well, you can appeal or you can do this and that.

MCALLEN: And so I.

MCALLEN: Did. I start writing letters and kind of get a response from the state surgeon.

MCALLEN: And and so then finally I'm like, well, I'm not getting a mirror. I wasn't getting an answer quick enough.

MCALLEN: Well, all I had to do was go.

MCALLEN: Down at 2400 right street. So one day I'm working and I'm not far from there and I'm like this before 911, obviously.

MCALLEN: And so I just take my self.

MCALLEN: Right on down and walk in the.

MCALLEN: Door, because back then you could.

MCALLEN: And and I just go on up to.

MCALLEN: This state surgeon's office and loo. And lo and behold, he was there. And I said, Well, hello, chief. My name is Specialist Macallan.

MCALLEN: And I'm just following up on.

MCALLEN: Dada, da da da. And he's like, What the hell are you doing here? Well, I haven't heard from you in a few weeks, and I just thought, whatever, you know.

MCALLEN: Come and find.

MCALLEN: Out. So we literally hashed it out right there, and I was like and he says, Well, you can't da da da because of this and this and that. And I says, Yeah, but the regs says, da da da. And he says, Yeah, but I says yeah. However bop, bop, bop. We literally went back and forth. He said fine, but you're going to have to have a two in your polys. I says, okay.

MCALLEN: And he retained me.

MCALLEN: So the two in the pulleys is just sort of like it's at the end of the day, it's like, I'll take that. So long as I could stay in the military, it's just a, it's.

MCALLEN: Well, I don't know if you know what that means, but.

SPRAGUE: Explain to the civilians what that is.

MCALLEN: Well, it's hard to it's hard for me to really say, but because.

MCALLEN: It.

MCALLEN: Just means that. It's. What the hell does it mean? It's like a physical attribute. Pulleys. There's like a P stands for physical. You is what is it? You is.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: Age is. Oh, I don't know. I'm forgetting all my acronym. It's been acronyms. I've been three years since I retired.

MCALLEN: I'm forgetting all my acronyms.

MCALLEN: It's wonderful. So anyways. But anyway, it has to do with your, your your your your your mental health, your physical health and other parts of your body. So I guess has something to do with, you know, whatever part my migraine headaches affect. So if it were 3 or 4.

MCALLEN: Then.

MCALLEN: They would have to kick me out. So they must have upgraded it from like a three, four up to a two. So then it's like, okay, you can stay. Anyhow, I couldn't believe it that that happened. And he's like, All right, you're bothering me. Get out. You can stay. Get out.

SPRAGUE: So do you happen to remember the surgeon's name by chance?

MCALLEN: No. Okay. Gosh.

MCALLEN: Cancer, 1999.

SPRAGUE: You have no worries.

MCALLEN: Well, I suppose I probably have that letter somewhere in my office, but. No, but anyhow, so from that day.

MCALLEN: On, I.

MCALLEN: Was like, okay, I'm not going to become an officer. Forget about it. So that's why I stayed enlisted.

MCALLEN: And I'm like.

MCALLEN: I'm not ever going to try to do anything like.

MCALLEN: That again in my life.

MCALLEN: And so I, I.

MCALLEN: Remained enlisted and and.

MCALLEN: I says, okay, watch this.

MCALLEN: So from that day on, I'm like.

MCALLEN: How in the heck do I show the guard that they made the right choice to retain me? So I started going to schools. I'm like, How do I get promoted? How do I go to schools? How do I do this? How do I do that?

MCALLEN: And so then from that, I and I.

MCALLEN: I started, you know. Excelling. Excelling in the military.

SPRAGUE: Mm hmm. Well, you were on guard duty, and you started working with your father. Mm hmm. In 99. Roughly.

MCALLEN: Yes.

SPRAGUE: July of 99. Did you find that your experience with the military informed how your interaction with your father at all?

MCALLEN: Yeah, absolutely.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: And vice versa? Absolutely.

MCALLEN: Yeah. I mean.

MCALLEN: Especially as.

MCALLEN: Time went on. You know.

MCALLEN: You know, especially as as I did go to military schools. You know, learning about leadership and. And just learning how to, you know, interpersonal skills and. Things like that. And computer skills, you know, because the military is very.

MCALLEN: Heavy on that.

MCALLEN: So a lot of those things really have really paid off. And then on the flip side.

MCALLEN: In my.

MCALLEN: Civilian career, I have to deal with a lot of the the the leadership, the company leadership, corporate leadership, which when I started working with my dad, I was a specialist E-4, low.

MCALLEN: Low ranking individual.

MCALLEN: But as that low ranking individual, I was dealing with the the corporate leadership.

MCALLEN: In the businesses.

MCALLEN: And so I felt very.

MCALLEN: Comfortable doing that.

MCALLEN: So as I as I made.

MCALLEN: Rank and.

MCALLEN: Was.

MCALLEN: You know, and.

MCALLEN: Having to work with or.

MCALLEN: Encountering, you know.

MCALLEN: Different levels of leadership in the military, I was always.

MCALLEN: You know, comfortable doing that.

MCALLEN: Just respectful.

MCALLEN: And all.

MCALLEN: That, but comfortable.

MCALLEN: So that I didn't, you know.

MCALLEN: Some people get really nervous.

MCALLEN: And, you know, uneasy around.

MCALLEN: Different people.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And for me, it's just like, well, I'm used to it. It's just it's a it's a different a different environment, but it's the same type of thing, just people.

MCALLEN: But and we already know how to behave.

MCALLEN: We already know how to act. And so and then also just having the opportunity in my my civilian position to be able to meet so many different people and talk about so many different things that I can do that even though my role sometimes is pretty limited, can be very limited or was especially very.

MCALLEN: Limited at one time in the.

MCALLEN: Military that like that I.

MCALLEN: Can expand it. And I did change my my job my.

MCALLEN: MLS to logistics.

MCALLEN: And I.

MCALLEN: Got into more leadership roles in my career, which did.

MCALLEN: Expand.

MCALLEN: What my my job, my roles were. So I went from.

MCALLEN: Being a mechanic.

MCALLEN: To getting.

MCALLEN: You know, getting into.

MCALLEN: More staff positions.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: You know, wider, you know, broader positions.

SPRAGUE: And we're going to get to that. We're going to get to all of that, of course. Okay. And then I've got to ask the question, where were you on 911?

MCALLEN: Oh, I.

MCALLEN: Was in the I was in in Mostyn at the.

MCALLEN: Boston Hospital installing a dishwasher with.

MCALLEN: My dad.

SPRAGUE: And what were your first thoughts when that happened?

MCALLEN: My thought was, like wondering if I should report to the my guard unit.

MCALLEN: And there.

MCALLEN: Was a.

MCALLEN: Guard unit in Boston, one of one of our companies, you know, from the 1/32.

MCALLEN: There.

MCALLEN: Know one of the companies.

MCALLEN: But there was no activity there per se. But yeah, so while that was happening, we were driving.

MCALLEN: Thomaston and.

MCALLEN: Yeah, the we could kind of hear when we were off loading the dishwasher at the dock there that something was about something about the airplane because the truck engine so loud we could hear something about an airplane. Must have been about eight.

MCALLEN: 830 in the morning.

MCALLEN: Our time.

MCALLEN: And then and.

MCALLEN: You know, it's just whatever's on the radio. And then we were just doing the doing the job and then probably some break or whatever. We started hearing chatter around the hospital.

MCALLEN: But my dad, he didn't he.

MCALLEN: Didn't stop to take time to go.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Spend a lot of time to watch the TV and do anything. He's like, Now we got a job to do. We got to keep keep working. When we stopped to eat lunch or.

MCALLEN: Something, you know, then, you know.

MCALLEN: And everybody was.

MCALLEN: Packed into the lunch room or wherever.

MCALLEN: We went to eat lunch, people were packed in there.

MCALLEN: And then it was.

MCALLEN: Like, okay, lunch is over, Let's go. He should take back to work. Let's go. So we didn't get a lot of.

MCALLEN: Time to sit and.

MCALLEN: Watch the news. We had to get that dishwasher installed. I mean, we're talking a big industrial.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Dishwasher where you put.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Stuff and it goes for.

MCALLEN: Ten.

MCALLEN: 15ft. You know, dishwasher. That's you know, I sat inside of it and put the nuts screws together and all this stuff.

MCALLEN: But but, yeah. And then yeah. And then.

MCALLEN: We stayed till.

MCALLEN: Dark and and left and got home. And then my time, I got.

MCALLEN: To see what was going on.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. So tell me about that period from 911 to you decided to go from the National Guard to the Army Reserves?

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah. Well, um. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, gosh.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Hmm. Yeah, I know. You know that, Uh, I don't, um. That's kind of a blur. Like, you know. Gosh, I. Yeah, I just feel that a lot of stuff happened. I mean, not a lot of stuff happened, really, in the guard. Um, a lot of stuff happened in the world, but, um. Hmm. Yeah, I know that. Is that. I think that's when. About the time.

MCALLEN: That I must.

MCALLEN: Request a lot of us request and the logistics. And because I know that when we got out of school, we didn't have any computers to actually do our job because they said they were.

MCALLEN: Getting all.

MCALLEN: Getting sent over. To the to the war.

MCALLEN: And that.

MCALLEN: Was that. They said, I don't know.

MCALLEN: I don't know who they are.

MCALLEN: But but that's what they said.

MCALLEN: So we didn't have anything.

MCALLEN: So so instead of doing our logistics job, we would just go.

MCALLEN: Into the maintenance bays.

MCALLEN: And fix trucks because we were all mechanics had been mechanics while we were. But anyway. Yeah. Huh. So yeah.

MCALLEN: So then.

MCALLEN: Then I decided I would I.

MCALLEN: Would.

MCALLEN: Maybe become a drill sergeant. And so for that I had to.

MCALLEN: Join the reserves. And so I finally found the unit.

MCALLEN: Did the transfer and everything. So I did that.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: That was 2004. And so I did the transfer, did all that. And then I went to I went up there, I went up to the unit.

MCALLEN: Unit is up in Nina.

MCALLEN: I am processed, did all that.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Met a couple of people. The very next day they.

MCALLEN: Call me up and and they tell me that.

MCALLEN: I've been selected for deployment the very next day.

SPRAGUE: Oh, my God.

MCALLEN: Oh. So.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: And so I got selected for deployment as a.

MCALLEN: Mechanic with a unit out.

MCALLEN: Of one of Diaz, Puerto Rico. And I was like, What? They got a reserve in Puerto Rico, huh? So I'm like, What? I was shocked. I was like. And I was like, Porter, not only being called up, but Puerto Rico like, Oh, well.

MCALLEN: You know, I didn't I didn't know that that.

MCALLEN: That could happen. But anyway, you learn something new every day.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So five weeks later, I was in Puerto Rico.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to remember that unit?

MCALLEN: Yeah, I sure do. That was the 276 maintenance company. Yeah, out.

SPRAGUE: Of Puerto Rico.

MCALLEN: They don't want a Diaz.

SPRAGUE: Separate company, huh?

MCALLEN: Yeah. 676.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And you had mentioned in your pre-interview that you didn't know anybody except one guy.

MCALLEN: Yeah. Yeah, there was another guy. Yeah. What was it? One guy. Did I know one guy?

SPRAGUE: It didn't sound like he knew a lot of people.

MCALLEN: Well, I sure didn't know. And if I did?

MCALLEN: How would I have known him? Do I write down a name?

SPRAGUE: You didn't. Oh, not that I have.

MCALLEN: Well, maybe. Maybe.

MCALLEN: Maybe I ended up knowing him.

MCALLEN: Maybe. Maybe that guy I knew.

MCALLEN: When we.

MCALLEN: Got deployed. When I got deployed the second time.

SPRAGUE: Okay. I might have a mixed up then. Yeah.

MCALLEN: Well.

SPRAGUE: That's okay. No worries.

MCALLEN: Hmm. Yeah. Trying to think. Yeah, because I would.

MCALLEN: Have had to have known. I'm from.

MCALLEN: The.

MCALLEN: Guard and I'm trying to think.

MCALLEN: Anyway.

SPRAGUE: So what did you do while you were in Puerto Rico?

MCALLEN: So when we did our free mob training in Puerto Rico, so we went down there.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So we go down there, we.

MCALLEN: We just go through and make sure that all of our basic skills are up to snuff. We do weapons qual.

MCALLEN: We go through and then.

MCALLEN: We do like.

MCALLEN: The go through and just brush up on.

MCALLEN: Just kind of our basic infantry skills.

MCALLEN: And then go.

MCALLEN: Through kind of that the training that, you know, prepares us for what we might.

MCALLEN: Encounter in combat in.

MCALLEN: Iraq. Do some IED identification training and that kind of thing. We do a little bit of, um, prisoner prisoner training just in case we were.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: Encounter any of that over there. So just just sort of all this all general pre mobilization training. We get a lot of shots.

MCALLEN: Medical screenings, You know, if you haven't gotten your DNA taken yet, they do the DNA.

MCALLEN: Swabs.

MCALLEN: And those kinds of things.

MCALLEN: Just just all that and clothing, get our desert uniforms, all these sorts of things. And then we also had to. Get the get all the vehicles prepped, prepared.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Moved.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: To the shipping area.

MCALLEN: Get them on to.

MCALLEN: The ships.

MCALLEN: And ship.

MCALLEN: Them over to Kuwait.

MCALLEN: So all that was done and then any other equipment that needed to go on into the containers.

MCALLEN: And get shipped over that all had to.

MCALLEN: Get done.

MCALLEN: Those in 2004, we were still taking vehicles over. During the time we were in Kuwait. They stopped doing that because of the IEDs. They didn't want to convoy vehicles north anymore. So we were part of the some of the last ones to actually ship our vehicles over. And then the new policy was that you would you would.

MCALLEN: Fall in on equipment.

MCALLEN: That was there. So we took our vehicles to Kuwait.

MCALLEN: And then we left.

MCALLEN: Our vehicles there so we didn't have to bring.

MCALLEN: Our equipment back.

MCALLEN: Which is kind of cool, made it easier. So the unit that took over for us.

MCALLEN: They ended up just falling in on our equipment.

MCALLEN: Yeah. So but we did all that work.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: So, so it was all part of our mobilization process. So 45 days in Puerto Rico. Um, so we stayed at Camp Santiago. So.

SPRAGUE: And where did you end up deploying to in theater?

MCALLEN: We ended up going to Camp Bear in Kuwait.

MCALLEN: So we our mission was to we had different kinds of maintenance. So there's there was.

MCALLEN: The.

MCALLEN: Part of the mission I was with was the automotive.

MCALLEN: Maintenance where.

MCALLEN: Our our thing was to.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: We didn't have a facility where we could do a lot of like real, like, you know, terror, terror, part engines and things like that. A couple of reasons.

MCALLEN: One.

MCALLEN: We, we worked outside, so you don't want to open an engine up to that environment to we didn't have time. So what we would do is if there was anything.

MCALLEN: Wrong with the engine or its.

MCALLEN: Major components, we just replace the engine. So, um, so it was faster just to.

MCALLEN: Pull an engine out.

MCALLEN: Of a vehicle and replace the whole thing. If the transmission, any part of the transmission was bad, we just pull the whole transmission out and replace it. Same with the transfer case. And that's what we do. And so that was it. So we're basically pulling the whole transmission transfer engine. And so.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So we, we would use a record to do that if it.

MCALLEN: Was the engine.

MCALLEN: Or, you know, we could lower lowered on to something if it was a transfer transmission.

MCALLEN: So depending on the vehicle. And so then we had.

MCALLEN: We had. Our armory shop so we could work on weapons. We had electrical so we could work on electrical systems. And then we had some volunteers that were working.

MCALLEN: On an up.

MCALLEN: Armor mission. So you'll remember that when we first got to Iraq, we had all the soft side vehicles.

MCALLEN: And then they.

MCALLEN: Started with the IEDs. And so we.

MCALLEN: Had to defend against the.

MCALLEN: IEDs. So people started making what they called hillbilly armor. Well, the hillbilly armor is basically whatever soldiers could find.

MCALLEN: And then what we.

MCALLEN: Started doing in Kuwait.

MCALLEN: The unit we fell in on, they.

MCALLEN: Started kind of mass producing. This hillbilly armor out of ballistic steel. So they get four white sheets of steel. They created templates for different vehicles. And so what they did is they'd have this allied trades, which is, you know, like the welders and and whatnot, and they'd use plasma cutters to cut around these templates based on work orders that they got the work orders would state. We've got this many of these types of vehicles so they could precut and prepare for vehicles.

MCALLEN: That were coming through. And when they came.

MCALLEN: Through, they would have precut sheets of of this armor. And they just go ahead and attach it to the vehicles for the doors. So Humvee, for example, they'd take the the vinyl doors off, just pitch them.

MCALLEN: And then they'd put on.

MCALLEN: Precut these precut doors.

MCALLEN: And they'd have their new.

MCALLEN: Hillbilly armor doors and they'd have some plates they could put on the floor and plates here, plates there, whatever the various pieces of the parts were.

MCALLEN: And they would just run them through. They just come through in a line. And and as.

MCALLEN: Much as they could, based on the work order that.

MCALLEN: The commanders would send forward. They just run them through and and do that.

MCALLEN: So that was a 24 hour operation that.

MCALLEN: Was going on while we.

MCALLEN: Were there. And so that's what our company was doing. And we had a couple hundred people in our company. So some of.

MCALLEN: Them were doing that 24.

MCALLEN: Hours a day.

MCALLEN: And then they had.

MCALLEN: All the other.

MCALLEN: Maintenance.

MCALLEN: Shops. And we also had a supply supply activity to that.

MCALLEN: We're supplying clothing and things like that. So that's what our company was doing.

SPRAGUE: And was that still the 276?

MCALLEN: It's all up to 76, Yeah.

SPRAGUE: You said that that was a maintenance company or maintenance company.

MCALLEN: Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And at the time, were you any five or any six or.

MCALLEN: I was. I was only five. And yeah, so.

MCALLEN: I went over and I was doing the maintenance, doing the engine.

MCALLEN: Like the replacements.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Things like that.

MCALLEN: And I was.

MCALLEN: Also a tour room custodian.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: They they asked me to.

MCALLEN: Start getting the meals.

MCALLEN: So we would have.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: Go. We wouldn't leave to go to chow because the chow hall was about a mile walk. So somebody would go take.

MCALLEN: Take one of the Humvees.

MCALLEN: And go get the chow. So they knew like, okay, our unit, this section had so many meals. So we would go and we were authorized to pick up so many to go meals. So they'd send two people to go do that. And so then they they picked they picked me and they says, Michael, and.

MCALLEN: Why don't you take.

MCALLEN: Your roommate back and go get the meals? So I was like, at first my thought was sexist. And but I was like, hmm, I can grab the vehicle. I can stop at my room, go get.

MCALLEN: My laundry.

MCALLEN: Drop it off, because that's also like a mile from there. Drop it off and then go get buy, Go get the chow. Okay. So I go to my room. I said, Babic, come on, we're going to go get the meals. She's like, Damn them. She's all mad. And she's like, sons of bitches. And we'll all calm down. Says, Hold on. Check this out. Let's go to the room. Let's go get our laundry. We'll grab our other roommates and we'll take it to the laundry and. And then we'll go get the chow, you see? We're going to have the Humvee. She's like. Why? Why are they asking the women? Said this cop. Let's just use it to her advantage. Oh, man, she was so bad. She's like, I'm go this time, but I'm not going to be making a habit of this. I was like, we could this could be good. And anyway, she was so mad. And anyway, so we did at that time.

MCALLEN: And then I and.

MCALLEN: Anyways, but I kept doing it. I kept doing it. And so every time I'd be like, okay, what do we need? I think, I think I need to stop at the peaks because people would.

MCALLEN: Surge in onto.

MCALLEN: Our base and we'd go from like.

MCALLEN: 3000 personnel on our.

MCALLEN: Base to 10,000.

MCALLEN: In a.

MCALLEN: Day. And during the day, all those.

MCALLEN: 10,000, the.

MCALLEN: Other 7000 would be training during the day. So if we needed something from the peaks.

MCALLEN: You know, like.

MCALLEN: You wanted.

MCALLEN: To get something that.

MCALLEN: Got what the heck did we need? I don't know. You needed to buy something that you couldn't get somewhere you could go during the day, right? In the, you know, off, off.

MCALLEN: Time, no line. That was the advantage.

MCALLEN: Of having to go get chow. And so so I did that. So I'd go do.

MCALLEN: That and then I'd go get chow and then.

MCALLEN: I would take somebody else.

MCALLEN: You.

MCALLEN: Know, take whoever I go, just grab or whoever. So then I go get chow.

MCALLEN: And then I'd.

MCALLEN: Start grab an extra stuff, grab an extra stuff. And then I'd be like, See that case of Gatorade? Grab that case, Gatorade, put it in the truck. Put in the truck. Shut up and put it in the truck.

MCALLEN: Next thing you know, we're outfitting. We got this.

MCALLEN: We got a new tent, brand new tent that we put up.

MCALLEN: And and and we named it Mi Cocina.

MCALLEN: It was just.

MCALLEN: For eat and eat their meals. And.

MCALLEN: And I think we had a air conditioner.

MCALLEN: Going in there.

MCALLEN: We had a fridge because we could have milk.

MCALLEN: There was milk and soda.

MCALLEN: Or.

MCALLEN: Great reds and, and and then we could.

MCALLEN: Get cereals and things like that. So we'd kind of stock it with leftover stuff and, and so I'd be like, grab that, grab that, grab a few extras.

MCALLEN: You know, And then they would fill.

MCALLEN: The hot.

MCALLEN: Food and in the Styrofoam and, you know.

MCALLEN: So you get the.

MCALLEN: Right number of them. And I'd.

MCALLEN: Be like, grab next to that, grab, you.

MCALLEN: Know, And then some.

MCALLEN: Fruit could always get as much fruit.

MCALLEN: As you wanted. But and then next.

MCALLEN: Thing you know, I'm stocking the thing. So every break they'd have a little something extra. And so that was great. So every break, every break, those extra.

MCALLEN: Stuff and.

MCALLEN: Then the extra Gatorade we'd.

MCALLEN: Put on ice, you know, and all this stuff. And the next thing you.

MCALLEN: Know, like Miguel and this is great. I'm like, You're welcome. And then the.

MCALLEN: Damn.

MCALLEN: Mess, Sergeant, he's like you. I'm watching you. All Okay, okay, okay. But then he'd get called away and be like, Hey, quick, grab them, get out, get out of here. And that would then become a game. It became a game. I always win. It was great. I loved it.

MCALLEN: Man. Anything for.

MCALLEN: The troops? Huh?

MCALLEN: Yeah. And then.

MCALLEN: Yeah, that. That. I did that until I got.

MCALLEN: Put on the maintenance support team and then somebody else had to do it. I don't know if they made it a game like I.

MCALLEN: Did, but. Oh, well.

SPRAGUE: What were the conditions? Were you other than the Cocina Cortina, the kitchen or whatever you call it, store kitchen? That would be kinda. What? What? Where were you on a temporary narcotics for sleeping.

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah. It was like. It was like a trailer, kind of.

MCALLEN: So.

MCALLEN: Yeah, it was like a. Yeah, it was. It was kind of like the this, the construction was like a trailer, but it was. But it was a facility that had eight, eight rooms.

MCALLEN: Eight, eight man rooms. So. And there was a.

MCALLEN: Door or a hallway.

MCALLEN: In between all the rooms.

MCALLEN: And a door on each end and each each room had there was a wooden door for each room with a locking, a locking door. So each person had a key.

MCALLEN: And then each room had a.

MCALLEN: A.

MCALLEN: Heat and a.

MCALLEN: Cooling.

MCALLEN: Unit in it.

MCALLEN: And so we had electricity.

MCALLEN: And and bunk beds.

MCALLEN: And so there.

MCALLEN: Given.

MCALLEN: Everything, they were pretty nice, you know, because we had power.

MCALLEN: And heating and cooling.

MCALLEN: There and there were two. Times we needed the heat, but mostly the cooling. The filtration wasn't so hot, so it.

MCALLEN: Was sandy and there.

MCALLEN: Dusty all the time. But.

MCALLEN: You know, and we were.

MCALLEN: Responsible to keep it.

MCALLEN: Clean. And most of the time I only had.

MCALLEN: Two other roommates in the eight man room. There was a time I had we had two Navy roommates. The Navy came from Italy to help us with that up armor mission. For a while, they were they.

MCALLEN: Were underwater.

MCALLEN: Welders that came from Italy for like a month, 45 days or something. Yeah. So one of my roommates was actually from.

MCALLEN: She's from Wisconsin.

MCALLEN: Yeah. So that was.

MCALLEN: Fun.

MCALLEN: So they.

MCALLEN: Came.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So any you you were you do they have bunkers or anything nearby if you got shelled or what was it?

MCALLEN: No.

MCALLEN: No. Kuwait. No.

MCALLEN: No, no. We didn't know.

MCALLEN: Because that that really.

MCALLEN: Wasn't a threat in Kuwait.

MCALLEN: There wasn't a threat. We there was only like a few days where they increased the threat level there. And when that happened, the only, only change that we saw was that.

MCALLEN: We.

MCALLEN: Entered with when we left base, we introduced the magazine to the weapon when we were all rolled out of the base.

MCALLEN: And that's the only change.

MCALLEN: To our posture when we left base. So other than that, that was the only elevated risk while I was there.

MCALLEN: Because, you know, generally by that time, Kuwait was, you know.

MCALLEN: Generally safe from terrorists. I mean, not to say that there.

MCALLEN: Wasn't some.

MCALLEN: But as far as we were concerned, obviously, we were like we had to be looking around.

MCALLEN: But it you know.

MCALLEN: We didn't stop at stoplights and things like that. I mean, we didn't sit there like sitting ducks. But.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: But no, I mean, we.

MCALLEN: Would go up and down the highways.

MCALLEN: And to get to where we needed to go. But, um, but that was. That was about it. Yeah, I know there wasn't a threat because of, of any of that. Especially because where we were, it's, it's so sparse.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: I couldn't imagine where someone was going to set.

MCALLEN: Up and.

MCALLEN: Lob their.

MCALLEN: You know, any other.

MCALLEN: Mortars. Yeah. Like I see you.

SPRAGUE: Did a, do you have any impressions on that up our mission how that was effective or what what what was your experience with that. Oh, how effective it was. What what was your impression of it?

MCALLEN: Well, I think it gave a lot of people a better.

MCALLEN: Peace of mind. I'm not.

MCALLEN: Sure. I mean, I think it was probably definitely. I know that. You know, I don't I don't I don't have actual knowledge about that.

MCALLEN: I.

MCALLEN: I, I, I do know that people probably had better.

MCALLEN: Peace of mind.

MCALLEN: I know that having served at.

MCALLEN: In the joint operations center in Iraq in 2000, nine and ten.

MCALLEN: That there was always a risk of projectiles and small arms fire that that it would protect against.

MCALLEN: But, you know.

MCALLEN: IEDs, you know, it would help against some shrapnel from far away, but serious, like direct hits. No, no, I we had an opportunity.

MCALLEN: When I was on the maintenance support team.

MCALLEN: We we took when we were leaving, we took some of our equipment to the Dremel, just like the.

MCALLEN: In.

MCALLEN: The junkyard.

MCALLEN: On campus of John.

MCALLEN: So some of our equipment was just going to be junked. So we took it to camp of John. And while we were there, we some of the vehicles.

MCALLEN: That had been.

MCALLEN: Hit by IEDs were there and some of them were a level.

MCALLEN: One.

MCALLEN: Up armored. What we were doing, the hillbilly is level three, so that's the lowest level armored vehicle out there. So level one is the stuff that rolls off the. But as manufacturers rolling off the floor, up armored, we saw some level.

MCALLEN: One.

MCALLEN: Armored vehicles, Humvees that had gotten hit. And we saw that stuff.

MCALLEN: In the.

MCALLEN: The the.

MCALLEN: The bomb, the.

MCALLEN: IEDs just cut through some of that armor, like butter, some of that stuff.

MCALLEN: And I don't.

MCALLEN: Know what kind of IED it was, if it was. I don't know what it was, but it came through some of those side, the side doors.

MCALLEN: And it's like it came through and, you know, and.

MCALLEN: It could open the door and look and see that still a couple of few fragments came through. And it's like that person didn't live. So I.

MCALLEN: Know for a.

MCALLEN: Fact that a direct hit by an IED.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: That hillbilly armor wasn't going to save a life. But it would help for maybe small arms fire.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: Projectiles, people that a lot of people would throw rocks, harass, harass the convoys along the way.

MCALLEN: But.

MCALLEN: So.

SPRAGUE: Okay. Any exposure to burn pits while you were there?

MCALLEN: Oh, sure.

SPRAGUE: Memories are fun. Memories or otherwise. Or.

MCALLEN: Well, they stink.

MCALLEN: Yeah. I mean.

MCALLEN: You know, I guess there was one at veering. Somewhere.

MCALLEN: But then there was.

MCALLEN: One at Ballard for sure.

MCALLEN: That's one of the most famous ones.

MCALLEN: So I was there for that.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: They, they while I was there, they said they started, they, they started using an incinerator. But yeah, it's.

MCALLEN: Pretty noxious.

MCALLEN: Smell. It's pretty disgusting.

MCALLEN: You still smell it. And. You know, you could.

MCALLEN: See the.

MCALLEN: Flames and, you know, the smoke. I mean, not the flames.

MCALLEN: But you can see it from certain parts when you're driving around.

MCALLEN: Or going around and.

MCALLEN: You just catch a.

MCALLEN: Nice.

MCALLEN: Waft of.

MCALLEN: It every now and again.

MCALLEN: And and it's you know.

MCALLEN: You go around and you throw.

MCALLEN: Your there's dumpsters everywhere and you could see.

MCALLEN: What's in them and you just.

MCALLEN: Go, well.

MCALLEN: That's going into the.

MCALLEN: Dump that's going to go into that fire.

MCALLEN: And you know.

MCALLEN: Oh.

MCALLEN: That's what I'm smelling. And, you know, I mean.

MCALLEN: That's the reality is is right there. And I know kind of I already by the time I was in Balad, you know, we were already hearing about the burn pits. What I wasn't hearing all all the news, but about all the bad things. But we were like there was concern about burn pits. So, you know, but there you are. So you just kind of. You know, kind of make jokes like.

MCALLEN: Oh, batter in that one.

MCALLEN: You know, like a car battery, Like, oh, excellent. Know what we're having later? So anyhow. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So tell me about your deployment back to the United States and coming back to Wisconsin after Kuwait, if you could.

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

MCALLEN: So we.

MCALLEN: Yeah, we we demobbed back to. We went to Puerto Rico again. Yup. So that's where they, the Puerto.

MCALLEN: Ricans wanted to demobbed from. So we went.

MCALLEN: To Fort Fort.

MCALLEN: Buchanan So that's right in the San Juan area.

MCALLEN: So we were there, oh, just a short while, a week or two, I think like a week. So they made that process pretty quick. And yeah, so basically, yeah, just a lot of paperwork.

MCALLEN: And maybe a little medical.

MCALLEN: Check.

MCALLEN: And then they.

MCALLEN: You know, get your flights all settled, you know, make sure you get your degree to 14.

MCALLEN: And that kind of thing.

MCALLEN: And lots of briefings, lots of briefings and then send you home.

SPRAGUE: Okay. So then you come back to Wisconsin or what?

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Come back home.

MCALLEN: And and then they.

MCALLEN: They started.

MCALLEN: Doing.

MCALLEN: The live they, they start the yellow ribbon program back then or. No.

MCALLEN: Oh no they didn't.

MCALLEN: Start that.

MCALLEN: Then, then. Yeah. You know.

MCALLEN: You, you, you should be supposed to be able to take some time.

MCALLEN: Off then I have to start. I don't think I needed.

MCALLEN: To start drilling right away. I had some time off from drilling, took some time off from work and just.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Came back home, of course, you know, wanted to see people and.

MCALLEN: You know, just.

MCALLEN: Get re you know, just come.

MCALLEN: Home and readjust. And, you know.

MCALLEN: Of course that's it's exciting to come back home and see everybody and and all that and you know my house was had been closed up for the, you know, basically 14.

MCALLEN: Months I was gone and get it opened up again and and all.

MCALLEN: That. So.

SPRAGUE: What were your thoughts coming back to the states after being gone?

MCALLEN: All I was excited. Yeah, I was excited. Yeah. I was looking forward to all kinds of.

MCALLEN: Things, you know, just. Half and.

MCALLEN: Half.

MCALLEN: You know?

MCALLEN: I think it's just.

MCALLEN: Just everything, you know. Um. Uh. You know.

MCALLEN: No, See, and, you know, the the just being the weather, it is. It's. It's, you know, it's just, you know, and it's really hot. It's. It's. The wind blows constantly and there's.

MCALLEN: Sand in it all the time.

MCALLEN: So it was just. And we worked outside all the time.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: So know it was just it's just, you know.

MCALLEN: Just out in that.

MCALLEN: Environment all the time. It's not a pleasant environment.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So it was nice to be back in a.

MCALLEN: Pleasant environment and.

MCALLEN: And oh, good food.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: The food's okay, The food was fine. It was good. I mean, KBR did a good job of feeding us over there, and the fruit was surprisingly good.

MCALLEN: Must come from like the Mediterranean or something. It was.

MCALLEN: It was surprisingly good. Um.

MCALLEN: But you know, it's the same thing eventually over and over.

MCALLEN: And I like to mix it up a little bit, but, uh, but I, you know, but I do miss, I did miss, you know, like, my, my buddies.

MCALLEN: My friends, you know, and some of the usual things and, uh, you know, and.

MCALLEN: Sometimes the.

MCALLEN: Routine, you know, and sometimes.

MCALLEN: Then it's like, Oh, God.

MCALLEN: There's too much to do.

SPRAGUE: So you came off active duty. He went back to the drilling reserves. Yeah. And did you go back to a different unit or the same unit?

MCALLEN: Well, I went back to the same unit.

MCALLEN: And I found that.

MCALLEN: The reserves had changed a little on they started calling.

MCALLEN: Drill.

MCALLEN: What the hell? They start calling it. They started calling it. What do they call it?

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: Drill was no longer drill. It was called Battle of Battle. Oh. Oh, well, gee whiz.

MCALLEN: I am forgetting everything.

MCALLEN: Okay, well, anyway, they didn't call a drill anymore, and so the something else.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: And then combatives.

MCALLEN: Was becoming something that.

MCALLEN: Was a requirement.

MCALLEN: And then. Yeah, I mean, just new things.

MCALLEN: Were.

MCALLEN: Becoming like.

MCALLEN: A normal thing. Oh, battle assembly back be a like, oh, you couldn't just call it a word. You had to incorporate a new acronym be a So I was like, What the hell is Bay Oh, it's drill. Why don't we just calling it drill? Oh.

SPRAGUE: It's called battle assembly.

MCALLEN: Battle assembly.

MCALLEN: Why don't. Why don't we go, girl? Surely there's some General Butt thought.

MCALLEN: That went.

MCALLEN: Up, but. Okay. Okay. So I'm like, So, yeah, I came back and I was like.

MCALLEN: All these new things.

MCALLEN: But okay, whatever.

SPRAGUE: So you come back to Wisconsin. The unit you were drilling with at the time was still the 276.

MCALLEN: There was no, no, no, no.

MCALLEN: I went back to the the drill sergeant unit.

SPRAGUE: Yeah. What was that unit for?

MCALLEN: I can't remember.

SPRAGUE: That's the drill sergeant. Unit Ordinator.

MCALLEN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: Okay. In the Army Reserve?

MCALLEN: Yeah. Got it. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And how did that go? Your pursuit of becoming a Di?

MCALLEN: Well, I. I guess I didn't like.

MCALLEN: Driving to Nenagh.

MCALLEN: For drills.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And in fact, I tried to get back into the guard, and by this.

MCALLEN: Time I was knee six and.

MCALLEN: I was.

MCALLEN: Getting.

MCALLEN: Close to make a knee seven. And but when I tried to get back to the guard, they would have taken.

MCALLEN: Me, but they wanted me down to E5.

MCALLEN: Yeah. You know.

MCALLEN: So anyhow.

MCALLEN: I, I didn't like that, but I did, I did take the opportunity to. Move to a.

MCALLEN: Unit in Madison then.

MCALLEN: And so I transferred to the six four, six RSG.

MCALLEN: Regional Support.

MCALLEN: Group. And so I.

MCALLEN: Went into that unit. Eventually I did a little more time and.

MCALLEN: Up at the.

MCALLEN: Nina unit, and then I.

MCALLEN: Transferred over to the six for six.

SPRAGUE: And that would have been roughly about 2006, 2000, once more. Um.

MCALLEN: 5 or 6? Yeah. Okay.

SPRAGUE: And on the civilian side, What are you doing while you're drilling? What are you doing the rest of the time?

MCALLEN: Still working for.

MCALLEN: Yeah, working in the family business.

MCALLEN: Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And how was that working out with you? Being deployed and then coming back? And in that balance, how did that work?

MCALLEN: It worked. It worked pretty good. Yeah. It was a smooth transition. Oh, yeah. Okay. Smooth.

SPRAGUE: Cool. Okay. And hey. No, no, no, no. Sorry. Okay. Okay. Tell me about going to the 90th Sustainment Brigade. In the sequence. Where is that?

MCALLEN: Okay, so.

MCALLEN: 2009. Um.

MCALLEN: I, uh. I got deployed.

MCALLEN: Again, so.

MCALLEN: I got that call.

MCALLEN: Again now.

MCALLEN: What the heck was I doing?

MCALLEN: Uh, unit. Was I? And then.

MCALLEN: I guess. I guess I.

MCALLEN: Was in.

MCALLEN: Six, four, six. Yeah. I must have still.

MCALLEN: Been.

MCALLEN: With the six for six. Yeah.

MCALLEN: And? And I.

MCALLEN: Got picked up for deployment with the.

MCALLEN: 90th and.

MCALLEN: Uh. Yeah. This time it was with the bear out of Little Rock, Arkansas. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

MCALLEN: And this time, that was.

MCALLEN: As a.

MCALLEN: Logistician.

MCALLEN: 92 Alpha. Oh, yeah. And this.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: The. This is when I got the other guy.

MCALLEN: That I know.

MCALLEN: He. He got sent over to. He was also from the six for six.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about if I were to interrupt you, how does that work as the reserves are picking you as individuals and reassigning you, is that correct?

MCALLEN: Yeah. Yeah. So what happens is.

MCALLEN: The unit.

MCALLEN: That gets selected to go overseas.

MCALLEN: It it. It doesn't have enough people.

MCALLEN: So it might be at 50% capacity.

MCALLEN: And so then the.

MCALLEN: The unit itself might try to fill itself.

MCALLEN: And but then if it's not.

MCALLEN: Successful, then it will push up to higher echelons.

MCALLEN: And then, you know, and then.

MCALLEN: Army Reserve will start reaching out and picking people.

MCALLEN: That are.

MCALLEN: Most qualified, rank, rank, match for whatever their.

MCALLEN: Whatever the unit needs.

MCALLEN: And so so that's how that happens. So then you just get in voluntarily selected.

MCALLEN: They might you.

MCALLEN: Know, they'll also sometimes reach out for volunteers. But if the volunteers aren't sufficient.

MCALLEN: Then they'll in.

MCALLEN: Voluntarily select people. So that's that's what happened to me. So so they'll do that until they fill their ranks. So that's what.

MCALLEN: Happened. And.

MCALLEN: Um, so that's the same thing. Obviously, that happened for Puerto Rico. They were they were in fact, they were still filling spots even.

MCALLEN: After we went to the mob.

MCALLEN: Site. Yeah. So it was a little different between the two deployments. Puerto Rico, I knew I was going, but I didn't drill with them before we.

MCALLEN: I went to.

MCALLEN: The mobile station.

MCALLEN: But for the 90th.

MCALLEN: I got notified a lot sooner.

MCALLEN: And then they would.

MCALLEN: They sent me to port. They sent me to. Little Rock 2 or 3 times for some drill weekends.

MCALLEN: And so.

MCALLEN: We got I got to meet some people.

MCALLEN: Along the way.

MCALLEN: We got some shots. We got some briefings, you know, So there was a little bit of that ahead of time.

MCALLEN: I even kind of got to know.

MCALLEN: What slot I was going to be.

MCALLEN: In. And then I.

MCALLEN: I was able to look and go, Oh, that requires this class. Should I take that class before we go? And someone said, Yeah, sure. So right away I got orders for that class and was able to do that before mobile.

MCALLEN: Before we went to the mobile station.

SPRAGUE: So in the mob site was where in Little Rock was.

MCALLEN: Well, we didn't mob from Little Rock, but we did do some training at Camp Robinson.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: But otherwise their reserve center was in.

MCALLEN: Right, in Little Rock.

SPRAGUE: Question. When you go to the mobile site, does the army pay for you to get from here to there or do you.

MCALLEN: Yup. Yup. Okay. Yeah. So the. So what what happened? What happened.

MCALLEN: Was.

MCALLEN: This. So by this.

MCALLEN: Time in 2009, I don't know exactly.

MCALLEN: When it all started, but.

MCALLEN: 2009.

MCALLEN: The the there was this yellow ribbon program. The army started, I guess, for Reserve Guard soldiers. And what they did is they paid for families.

MCALLEN: To come down for a.

MCALLEN: Few days, come down to Little Rock and get some briefings.

MCALLEN: To understand what.

MCALLEN: Some of the benefits are and to do a little, I don't know, work together, spend time with the the the soldiers that are moving.

MCALLEN: And everybody spend time together, maybe.

MCALLEN: Meet some other soldiers or maybe families meet each other. Before we left for the mobile station. So that.

MCALLEN: Happened.

MCALLEN: I brought my sisters down, so they got to be a part of all that. So that all happened. They put everybody up. Then we loaded up in busses.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: We rolled out from there and took busses to Fort Fort Hood, Texas. So that's that's how that happened. So so that was kind of a cool experience. So that was our last.

MCALLEN: Well, I mean, then.

MCALLEN: Yeah, all that went.

SPRAGUE: You flew out of Fort Hood, then we.

MCALLEN: Yeah, we ended up yeah, leaving from Fort Hood to Kuwait.

MCALLEN: And then to Iraq.

SPRAGUE: Tell me, what were your thoughts or feelings as you were going back to that theater after having served in Kuwait and now you're going to Iraq?

MCALLEN: Yeah, well. Huh? I kind of. I don't really remember. I guess it was. Hmm. I mean, I was kind of curious to see, you know, how Kuwait had.

MCALLEN: Changed, you know, Obviously I'd been there. Um.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: I guess going back home. Home to Cal.

MCALLEN: Baring.

MCALLEN: But now I was going as a guest this time.

MCALLEN: And I.

MCALLEN: Was. I was real curious to see go back to my old stomping grounds and see if certain things were still there and how they had changed. And and I was going to be able to be a host kind of to all my buddies. Um. And I was I was, you know.

MCALLEN: Nervous about going into Iraq, you know, I mean, that's where shit was going down.

MCALLEN: But at least we weren't com boring. I was real happy about that, you know?

SPRAGUE: And this was roughly August of oh nine maybe.

MCALLEN: Yes, I yeah, it was.

MCALLEN: I ended up going on the.

MCALLEN: Advan the advanced party I went up a few days before everybody. So yeah, I went up on an earlier, earlier flight in Iraq. Oh yeah. There was a handful of us, you know, So that was interesting.

SPRAGUE: And tell me about the flight and tell me about where you were, where you were setting up.

MCALLEN: Huh? Well. Honestly, I, I, I don't remember the flight. Okay. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Maybe you were asleep.

MCALLEN: Like. No, I doubt it, but. I don't remember the flight, but I do. I mean, I do remember getting there. I do remember. I do remember, uh, you know, getting there was. It was. It was kind of.

MCALLEN: Late and getting my room assignment and.

MCALLEN: Trying to search for my room with all my stuff. And it was heavy.

MCALLEN: And I couldn't find my room assignment at.

MCALLEN: First, and it was real close to where I started. And but, yeah, I finally got my room and. And my roommate at the time made it look like somebody else was staying there trying to keep keep me out. And go back to the office. And I was like, what is going on? It's like I there's no one here.

MCALLEN: And, uh.

MCALLEN: But it turned out it was the best roommate I could have had because she hardly ever stayed there. And so it was perfect.

SPRAGUE: So And you went to Joint Base Balad or.

MCALLEN: That's right. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And what tell me tell me about a little bit about the conditions there, what that was like in oh nine.

MCALLEN: Yeah. So joint base Blood used to be.

MCALLEN: Known as Camp Anaconda.

MCALLEN: Or mortar retail, they used to call it. But but it was it's the it was the largest logistics base in Iraq, which is why we were there. We were a logistics brigade. So so it's a big air base. And so it has a lot of you know, it's a it's a nice base to be it's got a.

MCALLEN: Lot of nice things. Um.

MCALLEN: The accommodations were similar to the described before. So, I mean this, it's just I had a two.

MCALLEN: Man room this time because.

MCALLEN: I was.

MCALLEN: Only seven and.

MCALLEN: But similar. It's got the, got electricity, heat and air. The building was surrounded with these little t walls. So if something should come in, the area is much more fortified. And then there are bunkers everywhere. So it it definitely was a, you know, combat zone. Uh, so, yeah, everywhere he went, all the buildings are just surrounded with these little t walls and concrete barriers. And then there's bunkers everywhere that you can dodge into. If the.

MCALLEN: Klaxon goes.

MCALLEN: Off and you go dug into.

MCALLEN: Them.

MCALLEN: But, you know, sometimes I'd lay in bed because my building is surrounded by concrete. But but the top is just like.

MCALLEN: A tin can.

MCALLEN: So it was a direct it.

MCALLEN: Is kind of.

MCALLEN: Aoa, you know, so well. So, um, but so late first few nights of laying there in bed, I just kind of lay there thinking. Well, let's just hope.

MCALLEN: It doesn't.

MCALLEN: Hit right.

MCALLEN: There, you know? If something comes in.

MCALLEN: So But. But anyway, just got to stop having those thoughts after a while because it's not a darn thing you can do about it. Uh, so. But.

SPRAGUE: Were they murdering you? Is that what.

MCALLEN: What was your. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there were. Yeah. I mean, there were a few, like rocket.

MCALLEN: Attacks and mortar.

MCALLEN: Attacks and some small arms fire outside the wire. But compared to what it used to be, it was pretty minimal.

MCALLEN: Pretty minimal. And they.

MCALLEN: They weren't accurate. There's only a couple of times that that there was any.

MCALLEN: Damage to anything. And and no one ever got hurt. And there was only one time that one came into.

MCALLEN: A housing area.

MCALLEN: And it was a.

MCALLEN: Dud. And I shouldn't be laughing, but thank goodness. But, you know.

MCALLEN: And the only reason I know.

MCALLEN: About it is because I was in the joint operations center.

MCALLEN: And when they come in, all.

MCALLEN: The TVs go off and then they they're monitoring where all the they.

MCALLEN: Call.

MCALLEN: I.D.s, the indirect fire, whether it's a mortar or a rocket. So it's interesting because now we see the Iraqi Defense forces, the IDF.

MCALLEN: And I see it on the news and I'm like indirect.

MCALLEN: Fire. And but it's but.

MCALLEN: They don't they they show on the screens in the in.

MCALLEN: The they call it the Joc Joint Operation.

MCALLEN: Center and the.

MCALLEN: So we just watch and then they show the base and.

MCALLEN: And then they.

MCALLEN: Show where the the indirect fires hitting, whether it's inside the wire, outside the wire. Is it, you know, in a housing area.

MCALLEN: Is it not?

MCALLEN: And then we wait to get a report, um, sitrep to see is there any damage. Was it a dud? Was it this? Was it that, you know, all this stuff? How many were there, You know, confirmation.

MCALLEN: Of how many there were.

MCALLEN: And usually it was 1 or 2 per occurrence. And except for one day we had six foot. But but in retrospect to the early days, it was not you know, we didn't it it was nothing. So compared to soldiers who were stationed there in the past. But but we we dealt with that.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about your job at that blog.

MCALLEN: So I was a. Liaison NCO.

MCALLEN: So I.

MCALLEN: I would take information from our brigade.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: And brief it to the, the general.

MCALLEN: At the.

MCALLEN: Joint at the Joc. And so this general, he was in charge of all logistics in all of Iraq. So there are four brigades, logistics.

MCALLEN: Brigades in Iraq and.

MCALLEN: And all four of us would brief the general every day. So I, I worked.

MCALLEN: With a.

MCALLEN: Major. And so he and I would do that.

MCALLEN: And so every.

MCALLEN: Other day we would we would alternate who would brief. So we had we had 24 hour ops. So the major and I had the day shift.

MCALLEN: And then there.

MCALLEN: Were two other there was another officer and a sergeant that had.

MCALLEN: Another shift. And then the.

MCALLEN: Third shift was a couple other soldiers. So.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So that's what we did. And so we'd take information and then sometimes we take any other information that he put out and then we'd pass it back down to our brigade. So.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Keep that information going back and forth.

MCALLEN: But.

MCALLEN: You know, we would, we'd get slides from our, our, our, our brigade and keep keep them updated on.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Fuel levels and water levels and the condition of any fuel tanks and water tanks and things like that.

MCALLEN: And on base and.

MCALLEN: Things like that. And other units would would be.

MCALLEN: You know, briefing on.

MCALLEN: Convoys and, you know, things like that, things that are moving.

MCALLEN: Around on base on in the. In the country and whatnot.

MCALLEN: So yeah, so that's that's kind.

MCALLEN: Of what we did, you know.

SPRAGUE: Do you happen to remember the general officer's name?

MCALLEN: Oh, gosh.

SPRAGUE: I should put you on the spot or anything.

MCALLEN: You know, I, I, somebody just if there was more than one.

MCALLEN: Well, you know, it was.

MCALLEN: It was. It was just the one.

MCALLEN: It was just the one to me.

MCALLEN: Just ask me that. I should have looked it up because I did.

MCALLEN: Run into him.

MCALLEN: At Fort Leavenworth afterward, after he had retired, he became a contractor. And I. I can't. I can't recall his name.

SPRAGUE: That's okay. The other curiosity about this, you had one day, you briefed the next day or the next shift, the officer briefed, and so you had NCO and then officer. What was the thinking behind that or what help me out on that, because what was the purpose behind having, if there was one, or some logic behind it or.

MCALLEN: Well, I, I, I don't know. I think just, just cross-training, I think just cross-training.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And it paid off because my, my officer ended up getting sick and, and, and he got medivaced out and so it's really paid off.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: You know I think Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So yeah.

MCALLEN: Okay you know.

SPRAGUE: Did you have, what kind of communications did you have as a back to the civilian world?

MCALLEN: Oh, a lot better. Real good. We had decent communication back in Kuwait.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: Pretty decent. But I had excellent comes back to the States because I had a I had a computer.

MCALLEN: And I had a.

MCALLEN: You know, I had both the what they call a zipper and a nipper computer. So the zipper is a secret computer that we did our, our work.

MCALLEN: On to.

MCALLEN: Do all the for the briefing and everything and then the nippers, the.

MCALLEN: Non.

MCALLEN: Secret.

MCALLEN: And your standard.

MCALLEN: Military computer. So I could.

MCALLEN: Log in.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: My email.

MCALLEN: And stuff like that. And write emails home all I wanted. Check my emails if I was busy.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: There were phones that I could call.

MCALLEN: Home on in the building.

MCALLEN: After after my shift.

MCALLEN: And I could.

MCALLEN: Make Morrell calls. I could call Truax Field and have them connect me to my dad.

MCALLEN: You know, when his.

MCALLEN: You know, at an appropriate hour. So I could do that all the time for free.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Have ten, 20 minute phone calls with them at any time. And I could connect with, you know, other bases and other areas and connect sometimes with my sisters.

MCALLEN: Or friends and in Madison.

MCALLEN: So. Yes. I mean, I had I had really good access, so I was lucky. But a lot of times I found.

MCALLEN: I didn't.

MCALLEN: I didn't necessarily utilize it just because I, I don't know. I just you know, my world is kind of.

MCALLEN: Small and.

MCALLEN: I just kind of I had cut off all the support I needed.

MCALLEN: There and and I didn't.

MCALLEN: Use the support back here as much as I probably should have, but.

SPRAGUE: Did you have any experience with as you were leaving a lot, taking down the base or anything like that or.

MCALLEN: And no, but I was privy to some of the conversations. As some of those discussions were being had.

MCALLEN: And this.

MCALLEN: Is interesting because I did.

MCALLEN: Run into that general again. Um.

MCALLEN: But so, so.

MCALLEN: In 2009.

MCALLEN: You remember that President.

MCALLEN: Obama announced.

MCALLEN: The drawdown.

MCALLEN: About, you know.

MCALLEN: To 50,000 troops in Iraq. And that was about September right after our unit got in country. And so we so we got there. And so about December.

MCALLEN: It was announced.

MCALLEN: That that two of the four logistics brigades were going to have to be off ramped early. Well, two two of those brigades were active duty and two are reserves. And the general is from the 13th.

MCALLEN: Sustainment Command.

MCALLEN: Out of Texas, Fort Hood.

MCALLEN: And he.

MCALLEN: Decided that the two of them were going to be off ramp, were going to be reserve.

MCALLEN: Units.

MCALLEN: And so anyhow, so we got off ramp early.

MCALLEN: And and.

MCALLEN: But before we did before we did some of the discussions that were being had during his briefings, what, 5:00 briefings.

MCALLEN: Every.

MCALLEN: Night were talking about how they were going to start closing bases in Iraq. And because part of the off ramp was reducing personnel, but also reducing the footprint of of the bases. And so logistically, how did how do we do that? And that was part of his problem. And so so how do you do that? How do you reduce the personnel? How do you reduce the footprint? And one of the big problems was these t walls. Now, these T walls are these eight foot, not five foot wide, maybe four foot wide concrete walls that are like four foot thick, three foot thick and 12 foot high, 12 foot high. Just these monstrous, monstrous monstrosities of concrete reinforced sort of rebar. And there were just thousands of them across the country. And every base has them. And now you.

MCALLEN: Can.

MCALLEN: Sell trailers. You can sell.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Certain equipment to, you know, the whatever. But these things you can't really sell, you know, ship them over to Afghanistan. That was that was discussed. But you could only fit so.

MCALLEN: Much on a.

MCALLEN: You know, a ship. You put them on a train.

MCALLEN: Moving to a.

MCALLEN: Ship, take them to Afghanistan. Does anybody.

MCALLEN: Want them?

MCALLEN: What do you do with them? Do you pulverize them, make gravel? I mean, it's a huge logistical problem. There's a really expensive to do anything with labor intensive.

MCALLEN: And this, that.

MCALLEN: And the other. So I remember these briefings and just talking about what can we do? And, you know, would anybody want to sell them to the just the fuel to move them to everything? So I remember there were several discussions and several different things. Well, anyway.

MCALLEN: The day comes.

MCALLEN: We don't we stop going to work. We transition to whomever takes over for us.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: We go home. Fast forward, oh, a year or two. I meet the general.

MCALLEN: Again and.

MCALLEN: First of all, I.

MCALLEN: See him and I remind him.

MCALLEN: When I say, I tell them, I says, You know, the first time I saw you, sir, I says.

MCALLEN: I first time.

MCALLEN: I saw you, I was told I had to have my stuff together. Otherwise I was. You were. I was going to get shot by you. And he looked and he starts laughing and he says, What? I said says, Yeah. I said I had to really have my stuff together in my briefings. Otherwise, you know, you were going to, you know, shoot me with your words, you know. And I said, that's that's when we were doing I left the right. See, that's what the guys told us, you know. And he just laughed it off. I said, Well, thankfully you never shot me, so. But anyhow. Anyway, we're talking and stuff.

MCALLEN: I had to remind him.

MCALLEN: That I worked. I worked with him in Iraq, you see. And then I says, By the way, sir, you know, I. I told him, I says, you know, before I left, we were talking about the t walls and what to do with all that. I said, whatever did happen to him? He says, we just left him. Hello. Figured. Unbelievable. So.

SPRAGUE: So tell me about. Tell me, first of all, about leaving Iraq and then getting back to the States.

MCALLEN: Yeah. Well, I tried several times to get the hell out of Iraq. Well, so. We left in a couple of waves. They took. They took, like a threw em.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Took us to the airport. And we sat there forever.

MCALLEN: And waited.

MCALLEN: Till, you know, the plane could come and take us.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: And we loaded up. We got in the air.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: We flew and we circled and we circle.

MCALLEN: And then we landed in.

MCALLEN: We're supposed to.

MCALLEN: Land in.

MCALLEN: Kuwait. We landed in Qatar. There was a sandstorm in Kuwait. No surprise spark. No surprise. It was.

MCALLEN: Now it was.

MCALLEN: February. So a little early. But anyway. But, yeah, so there's a sandstorm. So we landed in Qatar. Now, we waited in the plane for a while to see if it would clear. And we.

MCALLEN: Waited. And we waited. And then finally.

MCALLEN: We're like, well, get off the plane. Well, we get off.

MCALLEN: The plane and we wait on a tent.

MCALLEN: On the tarmac. And we wait. And we wait. And then they're like, well, well, we may as well.

MCALLEN: You know, go and.

MCALLEN: Just stay.

MCALLEN: The night.

MCALLEN: We'll just stay the night in Qatar when you can't bring your weapon to. We have to immigrate. So we have to go through all this rigmarole. It takes us a couple of hours to do all this. So we do that.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: You know, so we.

MCALLEN: Must have been on the ground six hours.

MCALLEN: Or something. We immigrate and we get the housing, we do the housing and we get our beds and all this.

MCALLEN: Stuff, and then we go eat and everything.

MCALLEN: We do all that.

MCALLEN: And it's whole rigmarole. And then I think.

MCALLEN: We're getting ready to go to.

MCALLEN: Bed and everything, and then.

MCALLEN: They're like, Oh, hold on. Plane's ready. Pack up. We turn around. Oh, my God. And then we have to emigrate. I mean, it was some crazy stuff like that. We did that twice. But we ended up spending 1 or 2 nights at the end of the day.

MCALLEN: 1 or 2 nights in.

MCALLEN: Qatar. And we, like, immigrated, emigrated, had to immigrate, emigrate, all that. I mean, it was really funky.

MCALLEN: The way.

MCALLEN: That all.

MCALLEN: Happened.

MCALLEN: And then finally, we we got out of there.

MCALLEN: And landed in in Kuwait.

MCALLEN: Ali Asylum.

MCALLEN: And then our.

MCALLEN: Other people medals up medals.

MCALLEN: And then and then.

MCALLEN: Got home.

SPRAGUE: So you ended up flying back up to Kuwait? No, no.

MCALLEN: Oh, I'm sorry. No, we didn't. I thought you meant back to Iraq.

MCALLEN: No, no, no, no.

MCALLEN: We had then continued on to Kuwait.

MCALLEN: No.

MCALLEN: No, we got made it. Oh, yeah. Back up to Kuwait. Yeah, we had to. Yeah. So. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So you're back here? What was that like coming back from Iraq versus having come back from Kuwait? Was there a difference? Was it a similar experience?

MCALLEN: Yeah, it was different for me that time.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Like. Yeah, I, I mean, I warn everybody that, you know, it's, you know, we're going to, you know, eventually we're going to.

MCALLEN: Know, you know, we're going.

MCALLEN: To fall apart. We'll stay in touch, but we'll fall apart eventually, you know? But we're all pretty close as a group of us. But. But yeah, but yeah, I didn't I didn't quite get back into work as quickly as I did the, the first time.

MCALLEN: I know it.

MCALLEN: Was a slower, a slower process, but, um, but I did eventually.

SPRAGUE: And get back to the States. What unit did you were you at the six for six still here or different unit.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: They kept me.

MCALLEN: With the 90th.

MCALLEN: For a while until I completed the yellow Ribbon program.

MCALLEN: They wanted to have some.

MCALLEN: Control over that because what they did.

MCALLEN: Then is they.

MCALLEN: Would they made sure that we completed three yellow.

MCALLEN: Ribbon.

MCALLEN: Programs.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: You could kind of complete that with when you did that, you would be with other members of the.

MCALLEN: 90th.

MCALLEN: And so we would kind of my friends and I would kind of coordinate that. We tried, you know, so we could go with other, you know, other some of our friends. So it was.

MCALLEN: Fun.

SPRAGUE: And the yellow ribbon groups, the purpose behind that was to. What was the purpose behind that? Help me out with.

MCALLEN: Kind of integration back in making sure that. You know, making sure that people are doing okay and get the services that we might need after deployment.

MCALLEN: I think and.

MCALLEN: Also is there for family members to come. And I didn't have any family members to bring, so I was just me. And so it was more of a time to get back and see some of my.

MCALLEN: Friends.

MCALLEN: Anyway. And.

SPRAGUE: Tell me about. In 2011 making Master Sergeant.

MCALLEN: Oh, I see.

MCALLEN: Well, no, I made a master sergeant over in Iraq.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: So that was 20.

MCALLEN: Well, 2009.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay.

MCALLEN: So. Yeah. So that's. I made four major and 11, I guess.

SPRAGUE: Okay. I have, I, I may have this wrong. I have you from 14 to 16 going to Sergeant Majors Academy, but maybe I'm.

MCALLEN: Yeah. Yeah, I went to I made Sergeant Major.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: Then I went to the academy. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And tell me about the significance of making Sergeant Major.

MCALLEN: Well, I certainly never thought I would. I certainly.

MCALLEN: You all. You know, 17.

MCALLEN: Year olds, years old.

MCALLEN: On the.

MCALLEN: On the couch, sick at.

MCALLEN: Home.

MCALLEN: And so a recruiter calls me up on the couch, calls me up and out of the.

MCALLEN: Blue, and I'm, like.

MCALLEN: Asking me to join the military and. Sure.

MCALLEN: And then. You know, in 1999.

MCALLEN: The National Guard tells me, hey, we're going to, you know, separate you.

MCALLEN: From from the.

MCALLEN: National Guard because you get migraines. You know.

MCALLEN: I, I mean.

MCALLEN: I never thought I would make the rank as command sergeant major, a sergeant major, let alone command sergeant major. But but I did. So.

SPRAGUE: So tell me.

MCALLEN: It's a big deal.

SPRAGUE: Yeah, absolutely. So were you with the ninetieths while you were in it and.

MCALLEN: Yeah, so I was. Yeah. So I was an 87.

MCALLEN: And then I.

MCALLEN: I got promoted.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: A while. I was over there.

SPRAGUE: Okay. And then tell me about tell me about 2016 and then the transition that happened during that time and how you worked out with that.

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So.

MCALLEN: Um.

MCALLEN: So with.

MCALLEN: My injury.

MCALLEN: Or.

SPRAGUE: It could be the injury I was referring more towards transitioning with your father retiring and.

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah. Oh, okay.

SPRAGUE: Well, we can talk about your injury, too. That's.

MCALLEN: Oh, well.

MCALLEN: That's not as fun.

MCALLEN: Well, yeah. Okay.

SPRAGUE: So if you're okay with that. If you're not, that's okay.

MCALLEN: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: It's been over a year since I wrote that. Yeah. So. Yeah, so my, my. My father, he, um. It was health was declining, and so, and I'd been working in the.

MCALLEN: Business since 99. And, and.

MCALLEN: So I, I ended up taking over, taking over the business.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: Of course, still.

MCALLEN: Serving in the military and. And taking on more and more.

MCALLEN: You know, roles, roles of more and more responsibility.

MCALLEN: In the.

MCALLEN: Military. And then I didn't really feel like I was taking on more responsibility per say at work because, you know, I was I really was.

MCALLEN: Taking on.

MCALLEN: More at.

MCALLEN: Work anyway. And.

MCALLEN: Um, we, I've worked.

MCALLEN: On.

MCALLEN: Hiring some staff also that was relieving some of the, the pressure.

MCALLEN: And the.

MCALLEN: Workload also. So, so it, you know, it, it was kind of all working out pretty well. You know, the responsibility was, was increasing.

MCALLEN: But um.

MCALLEN: But, but yeah, you know it, it was a big deal just to, you know, now it's taking over from my dad.

MCALLEN: And, and.

MCALLEN: Making sure that, you know, you know, everything was, was transitioning.

MCALLEN: Smoothly and then there were.

MCALLEN: Really some behind the.

MCALLEN: Scenes. Big muscle movements that needed to be taken care of and done.

MCALLEN: As we were, you know, transitioning the business, formally.

MCALLEN: Transitioning the business.

MCALLEN: So that we had to work on that with our advisors and things.

MCALLEN: And, and and with my.

MCALLEN: Sisters as well. So. So it's truly, you know, the, the whole family business. So, so that all had to.

MCALLEN: Happen and and at the same.

MCALLEN: Time still serving.

MCALLEN: And then.

MCALLEN: I sought out a.

MCALLEN: Command.

MCALLEN: Sergeant major position.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: At the same time which was a whole.

MCALLEN: New thing and went.

MCALLEN: From being a staff sergeant major to taking over that.

MCALLEN: Command.

MCALLEN: Position.

MCALLEN: And leading.

MCALLEN: You know, being at.

MCALLEN: It in.

MCALLEN: That leadership role once.

MCALLEN: Again.

MCALLEN: You know, public affairs battalion.

MCALLEN: So that that.

MCALLEN: Was interesting because being in a public affairs unit is new for me. So so that that was all, you know, a.

MCALLEN: Whirlwind.

MCALLEN: Change time of, you know, lots of change and.

MCALLEN: Learning and.

MCALLEN: Went pretty quickly. Yeah. Yeah.

SPRAGUE: So help me out with this. Yeah I have that is the three 18th.

MCALLEN: Yeah. Three 18th. Theater of public Affairs support element.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

SPRAGUE: And that's at Arlington Heights Illinois is Yeah. And that was from about 17 to 2020.

MCALLEN: Correct.

SPRAGUE: And tell me a little bit about as a command sergeant Major, tell me a little bit about your your leadership philosophy. If you have one or a mode of thinking or ethics, would you know, if you could distill it down and I know this is a $15 question. Yeah. Would it be.

MCALLEN: Well, you know, I. You know, I, I feel.

MCALLEN: Like, you know, I'm.

MCALLEN: More of a servant leader. You know, I work for the I work for the the soldiers or I work for the people.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: I have to give what the I need to give what the people need so that they can do their jobs. You know, I'm there to provide.

MCALLEN: Them the guidance and.

MCALLEN: The the.

MCALLEN: Direction that they need.

MCALLEN: Otherwise, why are they there? And if they're missing or missing something.

MCALLEN: That that they need.

MCALLEN: Tools or or whatever, I need to be able to provide it to.

MCALLEN: Them.

MCALLEN: Or show that they already have it.

MCALLEN: I mean.

MCALLEN: So. So.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: I don't need people to feel like. It, you know that that that, you know, I need them.

MCALLEN: To.

MCALLEN: You know I work for them so that that I can bring out the.

MCALLEN: Best in them and you know, so.

MCALLEN: That.

MCALLEN: And.

MCALLEN: That we have a mission that that we're all striving for. You know, they're not there for me. We're there.

MCALLEN: For a mission.

MCALLEN: That we're working on together.

MCALLEN: That's it in a nutshell.

SPRAGUE: So very mission centric.

MCALLEN: Yeah.

MCALLEN: I mean, yeah, I mean.

MCALLEN: It's not about me. It's about.

MCALLEN: A mission. And and it, you know, and everybody.

MCALLEN: You know, everybody has.

MCALLEN: You know.

MCALLEN: Needs to execute.

MCALLEN: The mission. I mean.

MCALLEN: Whether it's personal or whether it's something to get the, you know, you need paper to write to get the paper. You need pens. Right. Okay.

MCALLEN: You know, your head's not in the game.

MCALLEN: How can I help?

SPRAGUE: What? What parallels do you think you do? You carry that into your business life? Mm hmm. And are there any differences? Are they? Or is it just the same in terms of.