00:00:00JONES: Today is March 24, 2026. This is an interview conducted in person at the Wisconsin Veterans Museum in Madison, Wisconsin. The interview is with Rita Kirchoff, the interviewer is Raleigh Jones, and this interview is being recorded for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History project. Rita, why don't you start by telling us about your early years.
00:00:42KIRCHOFF: Okay. Well, I'm from Chaseburg, Wisconsin. Born in 1952. Raised on a farm. It was a dairy farm and tobacco farm. The tobacco was raised for a cash crop. Paid a lot of taxes and grocery bills. And was a lot work. We did learn how to do just about anything you can think of. I had three sisters. I'm the oldest. And hard work was just part of being on a farm, but it was fun, too. A lot of family get-togathers, and you learn to work as a team on a farm. So, um. And then I went to a one-room school until fourth grade, and in fifth grade they had a little bit bigger school that we attended, and the one- room schools were closed. By the age of—I went to high school in Westby. And then by the age of 18. I graduated from Wesby High School in 1970, and Vietnam was going on at that time. And that's when I--I guess I have to say that my high school counselor gave me the guts to do something besides, uh -- being like in an office or a nurse's aide or whatever, because I went to see him and he suggested that I should get married. I said, "Well, who would I marry? I don't date anybody." [Laughs]. And he said, "That would be my best advice for you, Rita," because I didn't have money for college. And so I thought, Well I guess when I went back to my desk I felt like I got kind of kicked in the stomach. So I decided I'm going to have to do something. So after graduation, I looked for jobs, and my aunt got me a job at the Hillview Nursing Home as a nurse's aide. And I knew right away that this was not for me, not an eighteen-year-old anyway. It was just sad to be working in a nursing home, and it just wasn't my cup of tea. So one morning my grandmother had asked me to mail a letter for her. My grandmother lived with my, my mom and dad on the farm. So there was eight of us in the house. There was my mom, and dad, my three younger sisters, a grandmother, and an aunt who had disabilities. And so we all lived in the same farmhouse. So anyway, when I went to mail the letter at the post office in La Crosse, the recruiting officers were also in that area. And I stopped in at the Air Force recruiter. And he sat and talked to me for a minute. And then he said, "Well, we're giving the test today. It takes about five hours. Would you like to take it?" I just got off the night shift, but I figured, you know, OK, I'll take the test. Called mom and dad and just said that I was going to do some things in La Crosse that day, and I'd be home later. I didn't tell them I was taking a military test. So they told me after the test that they would give me a call if I passed. Because I didn't think too much about it when you're 18, you know. I took the test. I thought, Well, that'd be exciting. And anyway, so I went home, continued on different things. This was in the summer of 1970. And I did get a call a couple of weeks later, and I did pass the test. Now, we were on a party line of about six to 10 households. So I knew when they called. And my grandmother said, "It's for you," that everybody in the--Dodson Hollow was the name of the road I lived on--was gonna know that somebody from the Air Force called and said I passed a test. And it was all Norwegian women that were on this, these households on this party line, and they would speak Norwegian to each other. And so when I hung up the phone, I knew that I better tell my parents that I had passed this test and thinking about joining the military. And sure enough, it wasn't, didn't take too long before the phone was ringing constantly, and my grandmother was listening to all these women on the phone talking about what Rita was up to. And so anyway, I never did anything. In high school, grade school, I was kind of born—I always said kind of old, I guess, because I never really went anywhere, did anything, I was very shy, quiet. So that was the last thing anybody expected me to do, was join the military. So I finally told my mom and dad, my mother said, why do you want to join the military? Why do you wanna leave? Did we do something? I said, no, but I have to do something with my life. I need to do something, go somewhere. And I mentioned Vietnam, but we were in such a, I guess, isolated, not isolated, but a very small town, rural community. You saw it on the news. Didn't hear anybody really talk about it. I never saw any demonstrations in our area. But so it wasn't, I know my dad said, well, where will you go? I said, well, I don't know. I haven't raised my hand yet. I still have to take a physical. So and they said that could be quite a while before they would call me about that. So I said I am interested, so I'm going to go ahead with it. So they had a small party for me. Before I even raised my hand. They just had this little party on the farm. And then one day the recruiter called, and it wasn't very long. He said it was gonna be quite a while, but it was only maybe two weeks after I passed the test that I could go and take the physical. The recruiter was very nice to my parents, and he never said anything about swimming pools or playing badminton and Basic Training, which I heard from one girl when I was at Basic Training--Where's the badminton course [laughs]? So, I have to say my recruiter was very truthful and so I left for the physical in September and so at least I was at the farm to help with the tobacco harvest before I left and in good shape and so my dad drove me to La Crosse and the recruiter-- I had packed everything, he gave me the list of what we could bring and back then a woman had to bring a girdle. Yes, a girdle you had to wear. So I had everything in the backpack and a suitcase. And off I went, because if I passed the physical that day in Minneapolis, we would leave for Lackland. And it was a station wagon. The recruiter picked us up in. And so my dad waved goodbye to me, not knowing if I was coming back or not. He probably figured I'd probably pass the physical, I mean, 18 and in good shape. So that was my goodbye to the family. And then we went to Minneapolis. There was, I don't know, how many in the car. I mean the draft was on, so there was other, it was a busy time. And when we got to Minneapolis, we stayed at a nice hotel. I had, there was two other girls. They were both from Minnesota--in the room--and we went for the physical. One was trying to join the Peace Corps, and the other one was trying to get into the Army, and I was going into the Air Force. And so, as the thing I remember about the physical was that there was so many lines, blue lines, red lines. I can't even remember all the colors. And so we, you would line up in different lines and go for your physical, and anyway, I passed the physical. And then the next day, we flew to Lackland. And so Basic Training is Basic Training. It didn't really affect me too much. Food was good. The Air Force has good food. The yelling is what was bothered me the most, because my parents weren't yellers. I couldn't figure out why they kept yelling at you all the time (laughs). But, otherwise I loved the marching, and I was a road guard. So I got to look around more, you know, road guards out when you were marching so you could look around for and make sure the intersection was safe and that was good. I had one of the closest friends I had in Basic Training, she was from California, and she spoke a couple of languages. I always wondered what happened to her, but she was a very nice person to have as a close friend. Otherwise I didn't really make too many friends in Basic Training. There was a lot of things to memorize. It was good. Then after Basic Training, uh, we went, we got our assignments, and I got my assignment was for Dover Air Force Base, and one other girl in my flight also got Dover Air Force Base. So there's two of us from Basic Training and went there.
00:10:22JONES: Was Basic Training like nine weeks?
00:10:25KIRCHOFF: Six. Six weeks. Am I talking too fast?
00:10:32JONES: I'm trying to keep up
00:10:34KIRCHOFF: I kind of get too fast sometimes. So, for my assignment at Dover Air Force Base, I was called a 702, which is an administration area. So most of the women back in the '70s, '60s, '70s was administration or medical. And so I got administration. I didn't have to go to tech school because I already knew how to type and everything. So I don't remember if we had to pass a typing test or not, I just don't recall that. So off I went to, well, first I went home for a few days. And then --Of course my dad had me wear my uniform all over the place. My mom still couldn't get over that I couldn't just quit and stay home (laughs). She just didn't understand it. I was the first person in the family that joined the military actually. My mother had two brothers that were in the military, one during Korea, and he was stationed in France for a while. Otherwise I was first one. So nobody--
00:11:53JONES: Certainly the first woman.
00:11:54KIRCHOFF: Well, yes, certainly the first woman. And they still were in the state of shock [laughs]. And now this is before cell phones and all that. So I knew that when I got to Dover that I'd probably be--
00:12:05JONES: Were either of your parents in the military?
00:12:07KIRCHOFF: No. Unh-uh. Nope. Um, yeah. So I don't really, you know, so long ago, time goes by so quickly, I just remember getting off that bus at Lackland Air Force Base and somebody saying, the T.I. yelling, "You now belong to Uncle Sam." [Laughs]. And the yelling, I guess, you know. But otherwise, I didn't mind the physical part or anything. And after I was home for a few days, then I left. And I always like to get places early. Maybe it's the farm upbringing, but I didn't have to be at Dover at a, you now, I had to be there by a certain date, but I got there a couple of days earlier. And they warned me a little bit about Dover that there never was any women there before, and we would be the first to be at that base. So I thought I should get there earlier. I didn't know what I was walking into. Eighteen years old, I mean, what do you know? Really nothing [laughs]. So then I caught an air flight out of La Crosse to Wilmington. So this was only the second time I really flew, because the first time I ever flew was from Minneapolis to Lackland. So then, then I went to Dover, but I had to go to Wilmington first, that was the closest airport at that time. And then figure out to take a bus down to Dover. And so I had to ask around. Landing in Wilmington, I thought that people had like a little bit of a twang. I was thinking, is this Delaware? But they do have a little bit of an accent. And so somebody there told me how to get the bus to Dover. Then from Dover, I had to find a cab, which I'd never taken a cab in my life, to the base. And then I got on the base, and it was getting towards evening. And so the cab dropped me off in front of a, the building -- I think it was number 471, which was the WAF [Women in the Air Force] barracks, which were condemned at the time. They were old Army barracks. The one barracks had been some work done to it, and that one had some of the WAFS in there. We were called WAFS, Women's Air Force, which has now been dissolved in 1976. So we were separate from men. In a lot of ways. So the barracks I was in was a condemned barracks. They were starting to fix it up a little bit. One side was boarded off, but there was nobody there really, so I just picked a room on the second floor, which was just me up there. So I had my own big bathroom down there. And I remember the mattress was on the floor. The door didn't want to shut very good. But I thought, well, there's people in Vietnam crawling on their bellies getting shot at. This is fine. I have a roof over my head. Not going to complain. So. Um.
00:15:25JONES: How many women were in this barracks?
00:15:30KIRCHOFF: Where I was, there was just maybe a few on the first floor, and then I was the only one on the second floor. The other barracks--there was about 20 total when I got there.
00:15:39JONES: Twenty total women?
00:15:41KIRCHOFF: Yeah.
00:15:42JONES: Twenty.
00:15:43KIRCHOFF: Yeah. I don't know the exact amount, but that's what I'm guessing, about 20. They had just gotten there, like the month before I got there, which was October, I guess. October, November. Yeah. I was there for Thanksgiving, so. Yeah, just a small amount. [15 second pause].
00:16:23JONES: And when you were on the second floor of your barracks, you had a bathroom to yourself basically?
00:16:28KIRCHOFF: Yeah. Yep. Just for a little while, more women started to arrive, but right at first it was just me up there.
00:16:39JONES: Okay.
00:16:39KIRCHOFF: Taht was okay. And then, so then I was there like a day, a couple of days before I had to report to CBPO, which is personnel, for my assignment. And, um. I'm just trying to think though. We had a commander. The WAFs had—I mean you had your squadron commander, but the WAF's also had a commander, and you had a first sergeant in your squadron, and you had a first sergeant in the WAFS squadron. So you had two squadrons really, whereas the men only had one squadron, so we had two to report to. The WAF commander for us was a --
00:17:27JONES: And your commanders were all women?
00:17:33KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. The first--the commander for the WAF Squad, I remember her name was Lieutenant Logan, and she was brand new, 2nd lieutenant. Young, you know, and then the 1st sergeant, she was a chief, so she had been in the military for quite some time, Hendrickson, I think her name was. She was very nice. Logan, you know, she was, uh, she thought she was doing a great job, and maybe she was, I don't know. She had a lot of hurdles to go through because being a woman and being the first women there, trying to establish the squadron of women there. I'm sure she had a lot of barriers to go through. I believe the base commander was supporting her, but it was hard to get these barracks up and running, and security and different things. But. So I went down to CBPO. I got directions for that. I didn't have a car, so I walked down there, and I found out that I was being assigned to a maintenance squadron, the 436th Field Maintenance Squadron. FMS. And a tech sergeant came to pick me up. He was quite the jokester, but I didn't know he was joking, because techs are-- everybody outranked you when you're out of Basic Training. So it kind of scared me, because he joked around about a lot of things and driving back to the unit, he, uh, when we arrived, it was a big black hangar that I worked in, which housed the 141 [Lockheed C-141 Starlifter] and later on the C-5 aircraft. So as we walk into the hangar, there's a tool shop on the--I can just see it on the left with a bunch of young guys whistling and, you know, having a great time. And there was a 141 that was kneeling as when the back door is down and you can walk into the aircraft. Well, I had pumps on, my dress blues, and he walked me in there. It was hard to walk in when you got the rollers on an aircraft up. So I walked in, and there were these little bags hanging in the aircraft from the ceiling and all over, and he said, "Now this all has to be repaired before you can go home tonight." And I thought, Well, I didn't go to school for that, sir, you know. And he's just laughing and he's just joking and everybody else is joking around. And so then after that, he walked me out and we went to the middle of the hangar, which was a big cement tier, and that was where the office building was, and it was like on the second floor, and walked up cement steps. And then I was greeted by some other military—there was another tech sergeant, a staff sergeant—and the first words I heard was, "Well, we've never had a woman here and we don't plan on keeping you and I don't think you're going to last long." And so I thought, oh, then I thought what happens to me? Because--But then I didn't say nothing. I'm glad I was quiet and I never said anything [laughs]. So. Anyway, it was an administrative job. It was the orderly room for the 436th Field Maintenance Squadron. There was over 900 men in the squadron, but they were all over the place. There was quite a few on our floor, but they took care of, like, the publications, the maintenance scheduling, lots of, we, in our office, we took care of all the locator cards, worked with the Red Cross. We did all of the, if somebody was AWOL, or on desertion status.
00:21:14JONES: Now, let me interrupt. When you say there were 900 men in the squadron, are you referring to the entire 436 Maintenance Squadron?
00:21:22KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yep. And so the maintenance squadron, we were responsible then for all of their, I almost forgot what the name of that is, their performance reviews for each one of them. So we did all the typing.
00:21:35JONES: Okay. We'll get to that.
00:21:38KIRCHOFF: Okay.
00:21:39JONES: The 436 maintenance squadron, as I understand it, was responsible for maintaining all of the planes at Dover.
00:21:48KIRCHOFF: Yes, yes. Yes.
00:21:48JONES: Okay.
00:21:48KIRCHOFF: That's correct. Yeah.
00:21:49JONES: Let me catch up.
00:21:50KIRCHOFF: Okay, that's fine. It was interesting.
00:22:01JONES: Okay, now we're going to pivot, we're still talking about the 436, but we're going to talk about your work at the 436.
00:22:10KIRCHOFF: Okay.
00:22:11JONES: So tell us what you did.
00:22:15KIRCHOFF: Well, I remember there was a training folder, it was blue. So the chief, sorry, chief, what do you call him? Chief clerk, he was a staff sergeant. When he would train you on a certain item, then they would check that off of this training manual. So we got trained in working with the Red Cross with different emergencies, but we also did all of the performance reviews. For each of the sections of the maintenance squadron, 436. Um--
00:22:53JONES: Okay, were you trained by a male?
00:22:56KIRCHOFF: Yes. Yes, there was no women up there and there was no bathroom for me. No latrine.
00:23:03JONES: So, initially you were assigned to the personnel office and how big, not space-wise, but are we talking how many people were working in that office? Were there a dozen people there?
00:23:21KIRCHOFF: Yeah, probably. Yeah, it was the orderly room.
00:23:32JONES: And you were the only woman in that office?
00:23:40KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yes.
00:23:47JONES: Okay, so initially you were trained by a man, and you did, among other things, performance reviews.
00:23:55KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. And we did--
00:23:56JONES: You kept all the files?
00:23:58KIRCHOFF: Yes, we did that and we had legal files too, but we worked with the JAG office of course with a lot of those.
00:24:16JONES: What are some other types of work that you did?
00:24:18KIRCHOFF: Well, letters of indebtedness. We did all the disciplinary letters.
00:24:28JONES: And when you say letters of inde-
00:24:30KIRCHOFF: Indebtedness. Alot of uh--
00:24:32JONES: money being owed?
00:24:34KIRCHOFF: Yeah, like to jewelry stores and that and then we had to garnish wages, things like that. Of course you worked with the main office on campus for that--or not campus--I worked at a university too so I get them mixed up [laughs]. But on the base. Yeah. The commander for the 436th FMS was always a pilot, and then they were lieutenant colonels working to be a colonel. So he wasn't there a lot, usually did a lot of flying, but-- Yeah, I'm trying to think of all the, and we had all these cards, you had to keep track of, you know, each person and, you know, and all of the IBM cards that would come in. We had all the mail, like, for, when you had a dental appointment, we would get all those cards that came in through.
00:25:25JONES: So this was essentially a personnel office for an employer that had 900 employees.
00:25:34KIRCHOFF: Yes, yes.
00:25:35JONES: So it was a big workforce.
00:25:37KIRCHOFF: Yeah, and everything was paper back then, you know, so a lot of publications. So we had like the jet engine shop. I don't remember how many were in that shop. So those guys would come up for different things that they needed, and there was, it was kind of like an O'Reilly on M*A*S*H, I guess.
00:26:01JONES: That's what I was going to bring up [Kirchoff laughs]. So you were a type of company clerk.
00:26:06KIRCHOFF: Yes. Yep. Yep. That's exactly what we were.
00:26:17JONES: I think the reference to Radar O'Reilly is one that [Kirchoff laughs] many, many Americans can have an understanding of what it is that you did just from that cultural reference.
00:26:29KIRCHOFF: Yeah. Yep. Yeah. And when when I got greeted there, I guess, you know, I wasn't sure what they meant by not wanting me or not welcoming me that well, but anyway, when I needed to use a restroom, I had to take the, I don't know what you call it, the flight line van down the runway to the morgue, and that's where I used the bathroom for, not a long time. They seemed like once they got used to me, they knew I was working hard, and I just kept quiet and--And then it was a great working atmosphere.
00:27:04JONES: So initially, your bathroom was in the morgue.
00:27:08KIRCHOFF: Yes. There was two big male latrines up in, on my floor. And so one day I came into work. And one of the latrines was turned into a female bathroom. So that was nice.
00:27:26JONES: How long did that happen? Or when was that?
00:27:28KIRCHOFF: You see, I don't know, it doesn't seem like it took a long time. I, you know, when you're 18, that time frame, I dunno. I guess I just accepted that I'd have to go to the bathroom at the morgue [laughs]. And then one day I come into work and there was a, um, this young man said, you now have your own latrine. And it was decorated in blue curtains over the urinals because we had also had a fabrication shop that would. do sewing of curtains, but of course they were blue [laughs]. It's the Air Force.
00:28:04JONES: OK, so when you joined and when you went to work in that office, you were the only woman.
00:28:10KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
00:28:11JONES: Did that ever change?
00:28:12KIRCHOFF: Yes, it did.
00:28:13JONES: And then how long? When did that happen?
00:28:16KIRCHOFF: Hum. I would say just a few months. Like, I got there, I don't know, maybe like three, four months, I don't know. Not too long.
00:28:33JONES: Okay, so a couple months later, another woman came along.
00:28:39KIRCHOFF: And then eventually another, but only, I think at the top we only had like three, oh, no. Then we assigned a woman over to the, we did get two more after that. I was just trying to think where they got assigned though, because they weren't up in the orderly room. They one got assigned down to like the jet engine shop and one got to assigned to age, but as clerks. So, they kind of took some of the -- Typing of those APRs, that's what they were called, off of our lap a little bit, so we didn't have so many of them.
00:29:17JONES: Now, I'm going to pivot back because you were talking about, well, what you were just saying prompts this question. When you went into the Women's Air Force, the two options available to you were either A, office work, or B, medical.
00:29:38KIRCHOFF: I didn't have an option, they just gave me.
00:29:39JONES: They, okay, so you were just assigned to the administrator.
00:29:44KIRCHOFF: I didn't even know if you could pick or not pick.
00:29:47KIRCHOFF: Okay. Yep. Uh -- So let's talk about what life was like for you initially uh -- When you were just the woman the only woman in the office did you have a conventional in essence first shift job, meaning--?
00:30:10KIRCHOFF: Yes, yeah. Just during the day, yeah, just 7:30 to whatever, 4:35.
00:30:19JONES: And then after your shift ended, then what happened? What was life like for the remainder of the day?
00:30:31KIRCHOFF: No. Walked back to the barracks, and usually we had GI parties, because the barracks had been condemned, so they weren't very clean. So we had a lot of cleaning. So we did a lot GI parties in our barracks at that time.
00:30:49JONES: Now, when you call it, what do you mean by GI parties?
00:30:53KIRCHOFF: Scrubbing.
00:30:53JONES: Scrubbing and cleaning.
00:30:54KIRCHOFF: Yep, that's all it was, yep. So we did a lot of scrubbing and cleaning at first. And that died down once we got it cleaned up a little bit better.
00:31:05JONES: And how late did the cleaning?
00:31:08KIRCHOFF: I don't remember. I was raised on a farm. I went to bed early anyway, so it was probably, we did have a curfew at first when I got there because we were such few women, so we had a curfew of nine o'clock to be back in the barracks. I do remember that. I don't know how long that lasted, not a long time. Because then eventually more and more women came. And then we got furniture, I remember that. We didn't really, we just had the regular iron bunk beds. They were kind of falling apart, and then Lieutenant Logan got furniture delivered. That was nice. They were still bunk beds, but they were in a lot better shape. New mattresses, that was nice too.
00:32:06JONES: And initially, did you spend all day and all night on the base?
00:32:15KIRCHOFF: Yeah, mostly because I didn't have a car. I have to say that when I was first at the FMS Squadron, after they knew that I was there to work and that, and they seemed to accept me, they were very nice. I remember the staff sergeant who was the chief clerk there asked me about my uniform because I didn't realize that I had lost quite a bit of weight, and he asked me if I was sick. He said, your uniform's starting to hang on you. And he said, are you sick? I said, no, I just have trouble eating. Why? Well, I said because of the chow hall. And I didn't have a car, so I couldn't go anywhere. So I would just go to the BX to buy a couple of things here and there. And so this was when I was first there. So he asked me to explain about the chow hall, and I said when I go to the chow hall, and I go through the line, I am the only woman usually there. And there's a lot of men asking me out for dates and that, and trying to scoop up the SOS or whatever, and what are you doing tonight? Can you meet me? Blah, blah, blah. I'll pick you up. And when I would sit at the table, there would be a whole horde of men around me. And I could hardly eat, so I just stopped going. It was just uncomfortable for an 18-year-old girl at the time. I didn't know how to solve that situation myself, so this chief clerk, and his name was Dowd, he became like a father, he assigned two men from the squadron to go with me to lunch and they kept all the other guys away from me and then I could have a decent meal at lunchtime. And I know it sounds silly, but at the time when you're 18 and, you know, a lot of people would think, oh, this is pretty cool. All these men want to go out with you, but it was scary. So these two guys from, I'm sure, I don't know if they appreciated to have to go into lunch with me every day for, and that only lasted two about that long. And then everybody got used to having me around. And it was just that. I only went a couple of times and it scared me, so then I just didn't go back. And then I think after they got used to seeing you and more women got there, it was okay. And then I had an experience of trying to get into the black hangar when I was first there. The tool shop guys would shut the hangar door. And I had to wear, a lot of the guys got to wear their fatigues, but I was not allowed. I had wear my dress blues. And the chief master sergeant, he always wore his dress blues, but a lot other guys wore their fatigues. But anyway, so trying to get into a hanger. The door is up quite high, and so I'd open the door and I would have to raise my A-line skirt up a little bit with my pumps on, my shoes, to try and crawl over the door and then jump in on the other side. Well then they'd be whistling and that. It really didn't bother me too much. I just figured, I guess, I still got into work and I still got my skirt up in a decent way and I got in to work. But after I'd get into work, they'd open up the hangar door. Well, one morning, a master sergeant, Ferguson, was following me into work. They didn't know that, the tool shop guys. Anyway, the door was shut, and I'm trying to get in, and he witnessed all of it, and he walked up behind me and said, does that happen every day, Sergeant Burke? And he said, it does.
00:36:10JONES: So by this time you're a sergeant?
00:36:11KIRCHOFF: No, actually, I was an airman. I'm sorry. Yep. I was airman Berg and he said, "Does this happen every morning, Airman Berg?" I said, "Yes it does." He goes, "I think you can start wearing your fatigues now." And after that the door was always open.
00:36:31JONES: Prior to that, you were wearing your dress blues every day to work.
00:36:36KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
00:36:36JONES: And then you would change out of them, presumably when your shift was over. But how long was it that you had to wear your dress blues before you were allowed to change into your fatigues?
00:36:51KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. I don't know. A few weeks.
00:36:54JONES: Okay.
00:36:55KIRCHOFF: Not too long.
00:37:07JONES: And how often, after you were there for a while, was it that you went over to the Black Hangar?
00:37:16KIRCHOFF: What was that?
00:37:18JONES: How often did you get to go to the Black Hangar?
00:37:21KIRCHOFF: That's where I work.
00:37:23JONES: I misunderstood that.
00:37:24KIRCHOFF: No, the black hanger, the cement tier, the office I worked in was in the middle of the black hanger. Okay. It was like a big cement tier. I don't know how to explain it, but there was no windows.
00:37:44JONES: Okay, but I take it that the Black Hanger was a huge building.
00:37:47KIRCHOFF: Yes, yes, yes because of the air, you know, it was all cargo planes that would be in there. I think there was two cement tiers in there.
00:38:06JONES: And the cargo planes were in this hangar getting worked on.
00:38:09KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
00:38:10JONES: By the hundreds of maintenance employees.
00:38:15KIRCHOFF: Yeah, there was different shops and different locations, but some of the work was done there, and then there was other work the engine work was down in an engine area, it was different.
00:38:33JONES: Okay so the weeks turned into months and so how long were you--at Dover?
00:38:48KIRCHOFF: I was there for the whole four years. And the nice thing was that we could, since we were Air Force and my commander was a pilot, we could get a hop. We called it a hop, we could on an aircraft if they were going to Myrtle Beach or something for, if you had a little bit of time off or something you could fly down. If he would put me on as a crew member then I could be guaranteed to get back on that aircraft. And get back on time. Taking a hop was always kind of risky because you never knew if you got bumped by cargo or people that were higher up in the chain of command, you know, so. But I got offered once to go to Germany by the commander, and then I would have taken vacation, of course, or leave at the time they called it. I didn't go because I was afraid to go because I thought I'd be the only woman. What happens when I get to Germany? I don't know. So I didn't go. And I always wished I probably should've, but I didn't. I didn 't take the risk.
00:40:05JONES: Pivoting back to your time in the office, were you in the same office for four years?
00:40:19KIRCHOFF: Yep, I was. And actually I became chief clerk eventually.
00:40:38JONES: Now when you started in the office, you were the only woman, and when you left four years later, how many women were there?
00:40:49KIRCHOFF: Not very many. Let's see. I'm trying to think if there was any there when I left. I think I was still the only woman then, but in between there was Nancy and Lynn and three other women I think. But when I left, I don't think there was any. It was all men yet. Back to all men.
00:41:13JONES: Okay, now when you signed up initially, was it for a four-year commitment? Mm-hmm, yes.
00:41:26KIRCHOFF: I intended to re-enlist, and then Jim and I met. He was --
00:41:30JONES: Okay, but we'll get to that in a moment.
00:41:32KIRCHOFF: Okay.
00:41:39JONES: So during the four years, I take it that once a year you would have leave and during that time you came back to Wisconsin.
00:41:52KIRCHOFF: Once I, yeah, not all the time, but yeah. Yep, and that was always interesting, flying back home because of Vietnam, and I didn't expect what I would run into with a uniform on.
00:42:09JONES: Right. So tell us about that. I mean, any times where you were in a negative experience happen to you?
00:42:17KIRCHOFF: Yeah, Chicago O'Hare Airport is the one that really comes to life for me. I was waiting. I don't remember if I was coming back from La Crosse Airport or going to La Crosse Airport because that's where my connection was, was at O'Hare. And a woman came up to me, probably in her fifties, and started yelling at me and asking me why I was in the military. I never said a word. She kept saying, I didn't have to be in the military. Nobody drafted me. Why would I be in there? And she spit on me and walked away. All I could think of was I hope she leaves some poor soldier alone. Maybe she got it out of her system. I don't know, but caught me off guard. After that, I was more on guard.
00:43:14JONES: Was this relatively early in your experience or was it later?
00:43:17KIRCHOFF: No, it was more early. I never told my parents. I think the only person I ever told was Jim, actually.
00:43:55JONES: That uh -- That was your only negative experience? In the uniform.
00:43:59KIRCHOFF: No, when we were at Dover, the Dover Air Force Base had a bus that would go to Washington D.C. on weekends, like just for the day, and it wasn't that many hours away. So some of my, after I got to know some of the women in the barracks and my roommate, we decided we wanted to do that, so we would sign up for that. And on one occasion they told us we should wear our uniforms, and I don't remember why. It was something special going on that we were supposed to go to. We never made it to it. It was some event for women in Washington, D.C., but we never got to it because of our experience with our uniforms on and all the protests that were going on, and we never could make it to the building. And I don't remember what it was. It was--
00:44:53JONES: What city was this?
00:44:54KIRCHOFF: In D. C. Yeah. But all the protests and that and most of the time when we went to Washington DC, which we did quite a bit, where we were at at the memorials and different things people were very kind to us. And I have to say, most of the time when I flew, most people were kind to me, because I think they thought I was an airline stewardess with a blue uniform on. I don't think they, some people just didn't realize it was a military uniform, except for that one lady. But we had a lot of, also in the barracks, we had a lot of, and I never was around racial types of, I mean, I was raised in Chaseburg, Wisconsin, And so the racial disputes and the fights in the barracks was something brand new to me, and that scared me. Learned to understand a lot of different things and all the different--terrible things that were going on in the world.
00:46:04JONES: Okay, we're going to skip that and go, or I'm going to pivot back to the incident in D.C. where you didn't make it to where you were going, and I take it you did not make it to where you were going because protesters --
00:46:21KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
00:46:22JONES: Precluded you from getting there.
00:46:27KIRCHOFF: Yes. Yeah. I just don't recall what it was, must have been something pretty casual.
00:46:38JONES: Okey-doke, now we're going to pivot back to the racial incidents. Tell us about those.
00:46:48KIRCHOFF: Well, in the barracks, after more women got there, a lot of the black women in the barracks. There was a lot of, I don't know, racial wars going on, and I never got involved in them, so I don t really know what happened, but there would be a lot of fighting. Women can fight very good, I found out, and they were scary fights. Some of it was dating things, if a white woman was dating a black man or whatever, and I remember one lady got her hair cut off by a knife in the middle of the hallway. Just--I remember my sisters came to see me, and they didn't have a car. They flew in. I don't know how I got them to the barracks, but at the time I didn't have a roommate, but they couldn't stay there. I had to move them over to guest housing, which was like another barracks. But they were with other people. They were scared to death of the barracks because of the fighting that was going on.
00:47:53JONES: Your sisters?
00:47:54KIRCHOFF: Yeah. I have twin sisters though. And they were only there for a few days. They had never flown or gone anywhere before, neither. So this was quite a shock. And I was thinking, I bet I turned them off to the military. Scared the living daylights out of them [laughs]. My mom and dad visited. I have to tell you that story.
00:48:21JONES: Okay [Kirchoff laughs], okay, tell us about that story.
00:48:31KIRCHOFF: My sisters visited much later, but my mom and dad came. I was there probably, let's see. Maybe like six months, five, six months. It was the spring of 1971, April. I'll never forget it because Delaware has a very early spring and they just couldn't get over how beautiful everything was. My mom and dad drove out from the farm because that's the only time you can get away from the farm before you have to do all that field work. So they came and they got to meet some--there wasn't a lot of women there yet. We had a few. They got to meet some of the women and I took them up to where I worked and they were treated like dignitaries. I just was still in shock about it. And there was my base, not the base commander, but my commander, the squadron commander, the chief clerk, everybody up there treated my parents like they were a king and queen. And showed 'em around, and then the base, or not the base commander, I keep calling him that, but the squadron commander, Colonel Hayes, asked if he could take my parents out to eat lunch. And I thought, well, how about me? And he goes, no, you can't, because I'm gonna take them to the officer's club and you're not allowed [laughs]. So I had to stay at work and I didn't even have a uniform on because I was on leave. So I stayed in the squadron and worked and he took them all over the place and they went to the officer's club. He took them in every aircraft we had. They were in the C-5, they were in that jet engine propulsion branch, they also were in the C-141 and they just couldn't get over it. My parents were used to farm tractors, and here they are, they're all over the place on this base. He had them to every building, he had them to the guest housing, showed them that, because I had them in a motel, he got them assigned to guest housing. Put them in a nice room in guest housing. At that time, they weren't that great, but got them off of the motel downtown. And then, but they had a great time at the officers club, I could tell, because when they came back they were pretty silly [laughs].
00:50:57JONES: A liquid lunch.
00:50:58KIRCHOFF: Yes, yes, I think so. And then that evening, some of the girls wanted to meet my dad and mom, so we snuck them into the barracks. Men weren't allowed in the women's barracks back then, I don't know what it's like now, everything's cool with it, I guess. We snuck my dad in. Now, there was only a few of us women on that second floor. And I had a room at the end by the fire exit. So he was easy to get in. So my mom and dad, we got him in. And we had bought some beer and everything. And my roommate at that time was from Tennessee. She was very homesick. And so we played "Rocky Top Tennessee". And she'd cry. And she had these red pajamas on, and danced with my dad down the hallway in the barracks [laughs]. But we had a great time.
00:51:56JONES: So your parents had a very different experience--
00:51:57KIRCHOFF: Oh, then my sisters--
00:51:59JONES: --than your sisters did.
00:52:01KIRCHOFF: Oh, definitely. They weren't treated like that at all. My sisters were. They should have came with my parents [laughs]. They came months later when there was a lot more women, a lot more disruption going on. Yeah, my parents had a great experience. But then, now the base commander had gotten them into guest housing. Well, you know, the military thing looks alike. So here they had -- My mom hadn't drank, so she drove. And when she got over to guest housing, she couldn't tell that she didn't write down the number of the building. So they still ended up back at the hotel [laughs]. But yeah, they had a good time.
00:52:51JONES: Um. Other than your sisters and your parents, any other family members visit you?
00:53:05KIRCHOFF: Only when we got married. We had a couple of carloads come out.
00:53:07JONES: Okay, now we'll get to that, but let's kind of pivot back to the early times, meaning when you're on the baseinitially. You've already covered the ground where you talked about what it was like at lunchtime.
00:53:31KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
00:53:32JONES: Eating with all of the the men and the way you were you were treated but do you have any other essentially negative stories about being a woman with around all that testosterone?
00:53:56KIRCHOFF: Well, just the medical part I guess would be the hardest part.
00:54:01JONES: Okay. Tell us about that.
00:54:03KIRCHOFF: Well, I just remember, like if you, any time you went up, you know, you've got an IBM card back then. So like for dental appointments, any kind of physical or anything would come on an IBM Card. So everybody would know that you were going. So, and I remember the one girl who worked at the clinic, one of the WAFs said, "Now, if you get a cold or something, just go to the BX and buy some cold medicine because they'll ask you to take a pregnancy test before they'll give you your cold package." When I looked at her, I thought, why? They always do. I don't know why. By the time you'd find out you're pregnant or not back then, she said, your cold will be over [laughs].
00:54:51JONES: Okay.
00:54:53KIRCHOFF: But, so I never asked for a cold package, I did later on, nobody asked me for the pregnancy test, but I did have a bad experience with the dentist. And it was probably 1972. I went in and it was a Friday.
00:55:12JONES: Is this a male dentist?
00:55:13KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. He said that I needed a new filling. Now, we hardly went to the dentist on the farm, so I was thinking, how can I need a new filling? But, okay, don't question he's an officer, I'm not. So I got a new filling. It was in my upper part of my mouth here. And so I got new filling, went home. I went out that night, and I didn't feel good all night. I could, felt like--we went to the Dover Downs with car races, you know? And when I got back to the barracks, it was -- I was sick. I didn't feel good at all, but I didn t really know what was wrong with me. And then in the morning when I woke up, my whole mouth, my eyes are swollen shut, my face is swollen shut. So I was nauseated and it was a Saturday. So I called up Jim and we had just started to date, but he had a car and he lived off the base. But he did come and get me on Saturday morning and drove me up to the emergency room, and he stayed with me, which was surprising. But he stayed me, and it took a long time before anybody would even get me in. And I had to take a pregnancy test. And they wanted to wait for the results, and I thought, gosh, if this is what it's like to be pregnant, I don't want any kids because this is terrible. Finally, Jim was on flying status, so he knew one of the flight surgeons. He came in, he saw him in the hall or something. I don't know how long I waited. It was like all Saturday, it was morning to after lunch. And there was another lady sitting there waiting for different things, but she had her husband in there, and they had to wait quite a while. So it wasn't just me, just because I was a woman. I don't know what was going on in the ER. Finally, um. This flight surgeon came in and lanced the top of my mouth and took the pressure off. But I was really sick and they figured it was probably a dirty instrument that was used. But I just remember that I didn't know. I was scared to go back to a dentist. And I don't know what happened to the dentist. But years later, when my tooth started to turn dark, I asked for my records. And that's not in my records, so I guess that was a negative experience.
00:57:49JONES: Okay. Um. Is there anything, before we get to Jim entering the picture, is there anything about the four years that you were at Dover that we have not covered that you'd like to talk about?
00:58:26KIRCHOFF: Well, as far as, like, we had the Operation Readiness Inspections, ORIs, and they were like war games, you know, like we'll—I was sent to school for radiation training. It was myself and one other guy from the orderly room. And so then we would be the people in the hangar measuring people for radiation. And so they knew how long they could stay out there, you know, to work on aircraft and that. I was always the first one picked because I was dispensable [laughs], which was logical, I guess. I couldn't fix an engine, so. Otherwise, I don't think so. I mean, my experiences were overall pretty good, I have to say. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I would definitely cross-train into another profession, probably, but administration was okay.
00:59:40JONES: And as you have--we covered this at the very beginning, but what you were in at the time was called the Women's Air Force, which according to my research was created about 1948, shortly after the Air Force was created, but of course the Air Force was all male at the time. So, and then the, this Women's Air Force existed between '48 and 1976--
01:00:19KIRCHOFF: Right.
01:00:20JONES: --when it was abolished, when essentially what happened was, in 1976 women were allowed to join the Air Force.
01:00:27KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
01:00:28JONES: In your time, from 1970 on, women were not allowed in the Air Force, hence you were in the Women's Air Force, and that was a year is my understanding that you had a completely different line of authority, chain-of-command if you will, and then, for instance, in the, all the 900 men in the 436.
01:00:56KIRCHOFF: Yes, you had to answer to that commander, but you also had the WAF commander, which did happen, because the woman that I went through Basic Training with, got into some trouble and she got demoted. But then when she got to the WAF section, she painted a lot of baseboards and things. She got punished a couple of times.
01:01:22JONES: Okay.
01:01:22KIRCHOFF: Yeah. I mean, it happened a few times.
01:01:25JONES: Anything like that happen to you?
01:01:26KIRCHOFF: No, no, I was a good girl [laughs]. I was too scared. But I loved it. I was always very careful, but always aware of my surroundings. I actually had the master sergeant for the WAF squadron issued me a large hat pin to carry up my sleeve and told me to use that if I had to run fast [laughs].
01:02:02JONES: It was the equivalent at the time of Mace.
01:02:07KIRCHOFF: Yes, I guess so. We were taught a little self-defense, but nothing that would really help too much, but as far as the --
01:02:17JONES: Did you ever use the long hat pin?
01:02:20KIRCHOFF: No. I didn't. Thank goodness. No.
01:02:22JONES: I remember those.
01:02:24KIRCHOFF: Oh yeah.
01:02:26JONES: Like, from my grandmother.
01:02:28KIRCHOFF: Oh yeah, yeah, yep, I wish I would have kept it. It was a beautiful hat pin. [Laughs]. Yeah.
01:02:36JONES: Um -- So essentially, you don't have anything else that you want to tell us about your four years that you were at Dover?
01:02:48KIRCHOFF: No. You know, being the—I remember being, like when the Thunderbirds would come or, you know, we were asked to march and that, and I always loved that, you know, wearing our uniform. But what was forming up is the WAF squadron, and the WAFS got to march across the flight line and things like that.
01:03:09JONES: It says you marched in parades on occasion?
01:03:12KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. We were actually now at the museum at Dover Air Force Base as women.
01:03:34JONES: OK. So, um-- Let's pivot and now I'm going to ask, tell us about how Jim enters the picture.
01:03:54KIRCHOFF: Well first, I have to say all the women that I met in the military, I'm always very proud of all of them. So. But anyway, so then Jim and I met probably in '72, we got married in '73 and it was a quick courtship. And, um -- Jim was a--
01:04:14JONES: And was he in the military also?
01:04:15KIRCHOFF: Yes, he was in the Air Force. He was a loadmaster, which is responsible for the loads on the aircraft. So he did a lot of flying. Probably went around the world 20 times in his four years. I met him at the Airman's Club. And it was January, I remember that, January of 1972, I guess. I think. Anyway. And the bouncer for the Airman's Club was my chief clerk. Was the chief clerk where I worked. I used to babysit for him sometimes, but he was like having a father and that, but so I always had to be on my best behavior, but he also would say don't, "If that guy asks you out, don't go out with him, Rita."
01:05:20JONES: Referring to Jim.
01:05:22KIRCHOFF: No. Any of 'em [laughs].
01:05:23JONES: Oh.
01:05:27KIRCHOFF: So, he was, kind of watched out for me, but anyway, so then I met Jim there and, I don't know, a couple weeks later he called me and asked if I wanted to go out and I don't really recall, but he always lived off-base. I lived on-base. He always had like three or four roommates. So we started dating, and eventually got married in September of '73, but he was out then. So he was my dependent.
01:06:00JONES: Okay, so he got out of the Air Force.
01:06:04KIRCHOFF: Like in August or something of '70, or maybe it was July of '73.
01:06:14JONES: Okay, and you're still in.
01:06:15KIRCHOFF: I'm still it, yeah, and should I say something about that? Jim did a lot of missions into Vietnam and that stuff, but this story's not about him, so. The one thing about Dover Air Force Base was that it was one of the main mortuaries during Vietnam, and that's, and I did get--The war seemed to be even more real when those aircraft came in and the downloading and everything. But anyway. So I was at Dover.
01:06:46JONES: Okay, now let me follow up on that. Right now, meaning in current times, when service members die overseas, they are delivered, they are flown back to Dover. And you're saying that was even the case--
01:07:04KIRCHOFF: Oh, yeah.
01:07:04JONES: --fifty years ago.
01:07:06KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:07:07JONES: So Dover has always been the place where--
01:07:09KIRCHOFF: There was two, though, then. So if you were east of the Mississippi River, you went to Dover Air Force Base, if they knew who you were by the dog tags. And then if you're west of the Mississippi River, you went to Travis Air Force Base in California. That was a mortuary that no longer exists. Now it's just Dover. Dignitaries meeting the fallen soldiers and everything. You didn't see that. You didn't see the dignitaries around--for Vietnam. Not that I know of. I never saw any. But, I was asked to be part of the honor guard once, and I thought this was quite the honor, and I was very, I was looking forward to it, but I couldn't get through the training because I couldn't stop, I, emotionally I just, no matter what I thought about, when you present that flag and you say those words, I just--I would start to cry and I just couldn't stop it. Um, finally one of the--who was a male that was training us, asked me if maybe just try and think of this or that. I tried to think of a lot of things. I just couldn't do it, and I said, "Well, I cried when Lassie ran away from home, so I jus don't think I can do it." So I felt bad. I really wanted to do it and I just, I just couldn't get through it without the emotional part. I was just a crybaby.
01:09:40JONES: Well, I can understand that. It's germane to this that my dad lived to a very ripe old age, and at his funeral he was given a flag by a military honor guard. And I was touched by it, and I'm simply bringing it up because, you know, it's germane, as I mentioned, that my dad's military service was seventy years prior to that, but still, I remember crying--
01:10:22KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
01:10:23JONES: Just like you were alluding to.
01:10:25KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm, I, yeah, just couldn't get through it.
01:10:30JONES: Okay, so, approximately, doing the math, four years after you went in in 1970, I would imagine your time was up in 1974.
01:10:46KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. And I got it early out because of Vietnam winding down.
01:10:53JONES: Right.
01:10:54KIRCHOFF: And it was to re-enlist or to get out. And well, Jim was out because he had started school. So he was my dependent at the time, which was strange, too. That's the other thing I should bring up, though, as him as my dependent. When we got married in Dover, my office where I worked, at the time I was the chief clerk, but I didn't realize these guys all got together and presented me this present that I would have to go to NCO Leadership School for, I think it was four weeks long. So right after the wedding I went to Leadership School, which was okay. It was a good school. [Laughs]. But I don't think Jim was expecting that. But he was in school, so there was no honeymoon anyway. So I went to NCO Leadership School. And then I thought, should I re-enlist when they told me that I could get out? Jim and I did a lot of walking and talking. And I think he kind of wanted me to get out. So we decided to get out, that I should get out of the military. So, I did.
01:12:02JONES: So when was that, in 1974?
01:12:07KIRCHOFF: Yes, April of '74. Otherwise, my time was up in September of '74
01:12:17JONES: Okay. So you left the WAF in April--
01:12:36KIRCHOFF: '74.
01:12:37JONES: --of 74, okay. And was that the end of your military experience?
01:12:43KIRCHOFF: No, because then Jim and I moved. He wanted to try Wisconsin. Jim was from New York, from the city, actually, from Flushing, and I said I don't think I could live in New York City, plus I don't think at the time. Yeah. Anyway, driving past the apartment buildings. And his mom and dad had a, you know, a house and that, but it just didn't fit for me. And so he said, "Well, let's try Wisconsin." So we moved to Wisconsin, stayed on the farm for a couple of months and helped my mom and dad. And then we moved to River Falls and went back to school because he wanted to go back to school. I really had no desire, but then I thought I guess I'll go back to school on the GI Bill, so. I went to school, too, and then we were looking for like a job, you know, like part-time jobs at the time. So I told him, "I'm going to Fort Snelling, I going to join the Reserves because I missed the Air Force." And I said, "You never know, maybe I'll go back to active duty." And he goes, "What?"
01:13:53JONES: I've got to catch up here [Kirchoff laughs]. So you went to school at UW-River Falls?
01:14:01KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm.
01:14:06JONES: Okay, so while you're at school at UW-River Falls, you decide to go into the Reserves?
01:14:15KIRCHOFF: Yes. I said, "I'm going to go to Fort Snelling tomorrow and join the Reserves." Jim was shocked. He goes, "Well, then, what am I going to do?" I said, "I don't know. You can find another job. I don t know." And he said, "Well I might as well go with you." So then both of us go to the Fort Sneilling, and I said, Well after talking to somebody, I said that I guess I'll join. So I joined the Reserves and he said, "Well, I might as well too then." So we both ended up in the Reserves. And I stayed in the Reserves for a year. And then when our first daughter was born, we talked about, should we both stay in or should one get out? And I didn't want to burden my family with, if I was deployed, you know, with child care stuff. So I decided to get out, and Jim stayed in for 34 years.
01:15:12JONES: Okay, so, you were in the Reserves for one year, and then one year later, after your first child was born, you left the Reserves.
01:15:26KIRCHOFF: Yeah.
01:15:27JONES: And you said, Jim stayed in for another 30 years.
01:15:37KIRCHOFF: Yes [laughs].
01:15:51JONES: Okie-doke. For that one year that you were in the Reserves, what kind of work did you do?
01:15:58KIRCHOFF: It was all administration. Yeah. It was actually in their personnel area.
01:16:07JONES: So the same type of work you had done at Dover.
01:16:10KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep.
01:16:24JONES: And so then you left the Reserves in 1975, is that correct?
01:16:30KIRCHOFF: Yes. Gosh! That seems like a long time ago now. It was.
01:16:39JONES: It was! [Kirchoff laughs].
01:16:42JONES: Fifty-one years ago.
01:16:43KIRCHOFF: I think I have a daughter now that's 50 years old. I think, wow! How did that happen?
01:16:50JONES: So, before we pivot to life after the military, just one more follow-up question. Is there anything about your five years in the military that you would like to, that we have not covered, that you'd like to talk about?
01:17:07KIRCHOFF: Just very proud of it, so I really don't have anything else. When Jim and I got married, that was the one thing I forgot to mention is, since he was my dependent, I had to go over to get the housing allowance. I don't know if you're familiar with that. If you're married, you get a housing allowance if you live off the base. So we were living off base, and I took the marriage certificate--after MCO Leadership School--so I took the marriage certificate over to get my housing allowance, and the young man behind the counter said, "Ma'am. You don't get a housing allowance." I said, "But I'm married, I'm supposed to have a housing allowance." Only men get it. Doesn't matter if you're a woman that's single or married, you never get a house allowance, because you're a woman in the military. So then Ruth Bader Ginsburg, bless her heart, went to court with, I think it was a lieutenant woman in the Air Force who, and she won the case. And finally, before I got out, I finally got a housing allowances. [Laughs]. I don't know if I got back pay though, I don't think so.
01:18:21JONES: And uh --What was your rank when you left the military?
01:18:24KIRCHOFF: An E-4. And I don't want it to sound like women and men, that men treated us badly or anything. I mean, it was just the time frame. You know. I had alot of friends from-- They got treated very good in a lot of different areas and that, but there was definitely a separation and a feeling of being a little bit on the lost side when you first get there and things. Yeah.
01:19:05JONES: Okay. Now let's talk a little bit about your life after the military. What did you do?
01:19:16KIRCHOFF: Well, I went to school. Took me a long time to get done with school between kids and that, but so--
01:19:24JONES: This was at River Falls still?
01:19:26KIRCHOFF: Yeah, River Falls. And then when Jim finished, he finished before I did, and then we moved to Pepin, Wisconsin. And I continue to take a class here and there, but I had to drive to River Falls. We moved around quite a bit with his job. And then when we lived in Black River Falls, I went back to school at the tech school for a paralegal degree, and then—so I went to a lot of schooling, I feel like, but I never finished on—well, I did finish that degree from the technical college, Chippewa Valley Technical College, I believe it was called, as a paralegal in Eau Claire, because I drove from Black River Falls. And by then we had three daughters. And then we moved. We got a chance to move to Stevens Point, Wisconsin. So we moved to Stevens Point. And then I went back to school at the university there, because they said we'd probably be there for quite a while, which we were. And I thought, I'm going to finish my four-year degree. But they didn't have the four- year degree I wanted from River Falls, so I went into public administration policy analysis. Sounds pretty boring. But anyway, I just wanted to get done. So I took a couple classes now and then. I did a crossing guard job in between, which was wonderful. One of the best jobs there is, being a crossing guard, even if the kids are mean, they're only there for a second at the corner [laughs]. But a lot of interesting stories, wonderful people. Enjoyed the job and then--
01:21:10JONES: Did you ever get your degree at Point?
01:21:12KIRCHOFF: Yes. I did. I finally finished in 1989. No, yeah I think it was '89. And then after that I worked at the university for, until I retired. Stevens Point and La Crosse. Not as a professor, also as administration, but I got my degree and did some very interesting jobs.
01:21:39JONES: Tell us a little bit about it. What kind of jobs did you have?
01:21:42KIRCHOFF: At Stevens Point, I got a job. My first job was in continuing education. No, actually it was in education at the university. And I was an LTE for a long time, a limited term employee. And I loved it because you got to move around a lot. So I experienced a lot of different jobs. So then I also, I would have, like, two jobs at the same time. Four hours in one place, four hours in the other place. And then I got, I started working at Continuing Education doing conferences, which was interesting. I did all of the men workshops. The--
01:22:24JONES: The Continuing Ed programs that are--
01:22:27KIRCHOFF: Yep, I did like the paper science, the logging. So we would go on site to like travel to Appleton, to Treehaven. Treehavin is another site that UW-Stevens Point has. And so the loggers would come in there, and we'd put on workshops for them. It was interesting. I enjoyed it. And Women in Science Day, we did those. Yeah. And then I worked at the chancellor's office for a while, which was— interesting and I worked in the art department and Stevens Point was when I first became permanent and I loved that job, but then we had to move to La Crosse after a while [laughs].
01:23:26JONES: And when you moved to La Crosse, were you still working for Stevens Point?
01:23:34KIRCHOFF: Yeah.
01:23:34JONES: Okay.
01:23:35KIRCHOFF: So, um--
01:23:36JONES: What did you do in La Crosse?
01:23:37KIRCHOFF: And then I got a job at the university working in the health science center. Health professions, they call it. Very different from the art department. It was okay. Physical therapy, occupational therapy, the physician assistant program, I was in charge of their rotations, doing their databases and stuff. It was okay.
01:24:02JONES: And how long were you in La Crosse?
01:24:05KIRCHOFF: Seven years, I think, before I retired, seven or eight, something like that.
01:24:09JONES: And how long were you in Point?
01:24:12KIRCHOFF: Oh, 20. Yeah, and the state allowed, I think, a couple of years of my military time to count. That was nice.
01:24:28JONES: And so after your six years in La Crosse, then you retired.
01:24:40KIRCHOFF: Mm-hmm. Yep. Walker came in.
01:24:41JONES: Yeah. And where is--
01:24:43KIRCHOFF: No, I won't go into that [laughs].
01:24:48JONES: And then did you, after retirement, did you stay in the La Crosse area?
01:24:53KIRCHOFF: Yes, we stayed in like in our, you know, Stoddard, which is like south of La Crosse, that's where we stayed. Yeah. That's where my family is basically from.
01:25:17JONES: Is there anything else that we've not covered that you would like to talk about?
01:25:23KIRCHOFF: I don't think so.
01:25:24JONES: Okay. Well, um.
01:25:28KIRCHOFF: It's not that exciting [laughs].
01:25:30JONES: Rita, I want to thank you for your service in the Women's Air Force over 50 years ago. And I also want to thank you for agreeing to do this interview. And that being said, this interview is concluded.
01:25:52KIRCHOFF: Thank you.
01:25:53JONES: Thank you.
