00:00:00BONANO: Today is Monday, April 27, 2026. This is an interview with Jamie Gular, who served in the United States Army from 1986 to 1991. Jamie entered service as Jamie Jaszewski?
00:00:14GULAR: Jaszowski.
00:00:15BONANO: Jaszowski, yeah, okay. This interview is being conducted by Kristin Bonano at Jamie Gular's home in Tomah, Wisconsin, for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum oral history program. No one else is present in the interview room. So, tell me. Jamie, where did you grow up?
00:00:31GULAR: I grew up in Wautoma, Wisconsin, very small town.
00:00:34BONANO: And what did your family do?
00:00:36GULAR: My family at that time, they were dairy farmers. So, transitioned after that, but yeah, during the time of my upbringing, it was dairy farming.
00:00:46BONANO: What was it like growing up on a dairy farm?
00:00:47GULAR: A lot of work. Yeah, definitely gained a work ethic, definitely no breaks. When you have animals, you got to take care of them and it doesn't matter what the weather is or what events are going on around you. So, yeah, it's a tough job. So, I admire all of these farmers for the work that they do.
00:01:07BONANO: What schools did you attend growing up?
00:01:10GULAR: It was Wautoma High School, just some small town. Again, I think my graduating class was maybe 70 people. Or 78, something like that.
00:01:21BONANO: Okay. So, what initially made you want to join the military?
00:01:25GULAR: When I was a sophomore in high school, something, the Air Force actually was something that I was interested in as a sophomore, and as time went on, then I thought, oh no, I really think I would like to be a flight attendant, and my dad thought that was a horrible idea. I come from parents who absolutely hate to fly. So, he didn't understand that, but he did say something that this might sound a little harsh, but he said, why would you want to be a glorified waitress in the air? And I honestly didn't even think of it like that. So, I have to thank him for being a little bit harsh because that wasn't something I thought of. I was just looking at traveling the world. So, at that point, I thought, well, I don't have their support with this and maybe I don't want to do that. Then I looked back at the military again. And soon after that, I had seen a movie and it was... Focused on the Army, basic training, of course they were doing obstacle courses, shooting rifles, jumping out of planes, you name it, and I thought that looked a whole lot more exciting than maybe what the Air Force could provide me. So, at that point I decided I was going to do the Army. I was very young when I graduated though, I was only 17 years old, and when I told my parents that was going to go in the Army. My mom wasn't fully on board. She was trying to talk me out of it, telling me to go to college. They would help me out. But I knew that I did not want to stay in a small town. At that point, did not know what I wanted to do for a career, so I didn't want to waste time and money. And since I didn't have her complete support, I didn't want her signing the paperwork for me to get in. So, I waited until September when I turned 18, and then I called the recruiter and signed the dotted line to go in the Army.
00:03:11BONANO: So, you joined September 1986 when you turned 18?
00:03:15GULAR: Yes, yes.
00:03:16BONANO: Okay, so did you have any siblings?
00:03:18GULAR: I did. My sister is a year older and then I have a brother two years younger and another brother that's 12 years younger. And my sister actually went in the Army. And with her only being a year old, so she was currently in the military at the time, so it was interesting that I was choosing Air Force and then even when I chose Army, it wasn't even based off of her experience. Because back then we didn't have cell phones and even when she did call home, it was very brief. And so, we did write back and forth a little bit, but we didn't really have a conversation about the military. So, my choice wasn't because she went in the army. So, it was really kind of ironic that I chose that, and we kind of did our own path with the army, but it was neat that both of us were in, but very distant just because of communication. You had to write letters back in order to speak. So, even when we both were in, we would send each other some cards, letters, but nothing in depth. Well, how things were going in the military.
00:04:20BONANO: So, your sister was also in the army?
00:04:21GULAR: Yes.
00:04:22BONANO: And where was she at the time that you joined?
00:04:24GULAR: She actually was in California, Fort Ord at the at the I believe, is what her main duty station was, but she has gone to different places. She was in Panama and also Egypt during her time.
00:04:35BONANO: Oh, okay. Did you have any family or you mentioned your sister who served, anybody else who served in the military?
00:04:42GULAR: The only other person that served was my grandfather, and he was in the Army National Guard as a medic.
00:04:49BONANO: Oh, okay. Um, so what do you remember about your arrival at, um, bootcamp? Uh, it was at Fort McClennan, Fort McClellan.
00:04:58GULAR: Fort McClellan, yeah. So, interesting, the first time I ever flew on an airplane was my flight to basic training. So, when you arrive there it's all in processing and part of that for the guys it's shaving their head and -- and for us it's receiving our gear and things like that but we also went through a process of receiving vaccines. Of course, getting there, I was fully vaccinated, but it didn't matter. They send you through everything like cattle. You're in a line. We had two nurses on each side of us, and they had what we call vaccine guns. And they're loaded with whatever they had loaded, we didn't question, and just went through this line, and they shot you in both arms and kept on marching through, collecting gear and things like that. So, the morning that I was supposed to be shipped out to basic training, I was very sick. I came, I was, I couldn't move. My body was just full of aches and pains. I felt like I had a high fever. So it was not a good start to the day I was shipping out to basic training. And the only thing I can contribute it to, it must have been from just the heavy dose of vaccines that I received. And so, at that point, you have your civilian luggage, but then you have this huge duffel bag that pretty much is about the same size that I was at the time. And they put you on a cattle truck, we call it a cattle truck, it does look like a cattle truck, looks like a workhorse trailer, and you're all stuffed in there with your bags, and they get you to basic training, and as we're getting off this cattle truck you have one drill sergeant who is screaming, and another drill sergeant who stood there with his back to us, and of course it's all through intimidation and just getting you to and I guess be fearful and. And we're all just standing there, and then next thing you know, the shouting starts, the yelling, and you have to run everywhere you go, and they're telling you to go report to the first sergeant, report to them, go to parade rest, do an about face, and exit. Well, as a civilian, you have no idea what parade rest or what about face is, so of course you're gonna screw it up. And everybody pretty much screwed it up, and if you did... You were dropped for pushups, so that was the punishment for screwing up most of the time. It was screaming in your ear and knocking out pushups. So, that first day was kind of a blur. For one, I was just super sick, too, and having to deal with that and then just going through the motions with whatever the drill sergeants were screaming at us. And then the next morning when I woke up, I could not, um, I couldn't fake it. I couldn't pretend that I was okay. I had to go to the drill Sergeant, scared out of my mind to tell them that I was sick. But I must've looked atrocious because the look on his face, he's like, I need to get you to sick call. So, I ended up in the hospital for three days. And it really set me back. The drill sergeant came to the hospital and said, if you don't check yourself out today, we're gonna recycle you and it could be weeks before you start basic training again. Well, I did not want to wait weeks to start basic training, so I was still very weak, but checked myself out. Got to basic training. By then, everybody was at least three days ahead of me in their training, and what a huge difference only three days made for a soldier. Because, of course, part of basic training is breaking you down and getting rid of all your civilian thoughts and ways of doing anything, and then building you back up as a soldier." Well, by then, they all knew how to march. They all knew they were learning rank structure. They were just learning the military terminology. I had no idea still how to march. I was watching everybody trying to keep up. And then in order to get chow, they would drill us with questions if we got the question, right? We got to go in and eat. I kept getting sent to the back of the line because they would put a flash card up and it would be a rank. And I'm like, I have no idea what that rank. I'm, like, sergeant, nope, back to line. Specialist, I don't know. So, anyway, finally I think he gave up. He felt sorry for me and he's like, get in there and eat. So, it was trying to catch up where everybody else was. So, I was three days already down trying to catch up and still trying to recover from what I was going through. But other than that, once... I got into a rhythm and started really learning. I loved basic training. I loved learning and seeing just what I could do. You just never know what you can do until someone's forcing you to do it. And I honestly didn't really care to run. I really didn't like running. I knew I was strong. Obviously, working on a farm carrying bales of hay and I had no problem with doing push-ups or anything like that but my strength was not running. By then everybody had been tested out and we had three groups of runners so they got to be placed in these slow medium fast groups and the drill sergeant didn't test me he's like well you look like you can run you're in the fast group and don't fall out. So, I learned how to run and how to gain a lot of speed to be able to keep up because you just you couldn't. Everything in the military is teamwork, so if one person fails, everybody gets punished, or you yourself find yourself doing extra things, so you just didn't. You pushed yourself to the point where you did everything you possibly could so you didn't fail. One, you didn't want to show the drill sergeant that, and also your team. So, it was a challenge at times, but I absolutely loved the challenges and challenging myself and seeing how all the things that I could do, you know, breaking down a weapon, putting it back together and being one of the fastest ones to be able to break it down and put it back again. Everything was a competition against each other, but at the same time we were teammates. So, it was actually a great experience once I started recovering from everything that I had at the beginning.
00:11:00BONANO: Great. I wanted to ask, um, because you went to Alabama, Fort McClellan, Alabama. Was that your first time outside of Wisconsin?
00:11:08GULAR: Yes.
00:11:09BONANO: What was that like?
00:11:11GULAR: As a young 18-year-old who had never left Wisconsin, I mean, we traveled throughout Wisconsin, but, yeah, everything, I think it probably was a good thing because even basic training, everything was brand new. So, you're looking at everything from a very open-minded perspective as new and an experience and excitement and no fear. It was like, it was just always excitement. So, there wasn't any of that fear. Um, other than maybe the first day of basic training, like, oh gosh, what is this going to be like, all the screaming and things, but I always tell everybody that my parents were so strict that the drill sergeant seemed like nothing. And my parents know that we've told them that too, it's like drill sergeants had nothing on you guys.
00:11:57BONANO: Sounds like you're well-prepared.
00:11:59GULAR: Yeah. So, Alabama, the only thing, the only difference was being there. Obviously, some of the heat, the climate, you know, quite different than Wisconsin, but no, it was just really neat to see that. Yeah, first time out of the state and first time for many other experiences. And of course, my last name was Jaszowski and nobody could pronounce it. And the drill sergeant, when he first looked at it, I knew he was trying to say my name and he just said, you're Jazz. And so, for that point forward, my nickname was Jazz and that carried through for my entire career pretty much.
00:12:30BONANO: Okay. So, what was it like being exposed to people from around the country?
00:12:37GULAR: You know, I talked to other people about this and even my husband and I, we talk about it and our friends talk about. We were all from different upbringings and states, but we all got along. We didn't see color. We didn't see., um, like there was diversity, but we didn't see it. We didn't judge it, I guess. It was just, we all had our strengths and our weaknesses. But when you are in the military, you are truly one team. And you have to be, because you have to have each other's back. And during basic training, if one person fails, you all fail. And you are all going to feel the pain of that failure, whether it's one person, three people, or whatever. The whole platoon will be. They consider you a failure so and they'll make you do it over and over again and if somebody's struggling if like when we were on ruck marches we would have one two people grab the ruck carry it for them another person pushing the other person behind so again it was nothing we just you just did what you needed to do to get everybody through it, it was I want to say a unique and I loved the environment. Yeah, no judgment and no discrimination.
00:13:57BONANO: Was you a unit co-ed?
00:13:59GULAR: We were actually an all-female company. Now, we did have male platoons and companies that surrounded us. So, in our chow hall, we shared that, but of course it was different times. So, when we ate, the men were in the kitchen, served doing what they call KP duties, whether it be dishes or whatever. And so, we got to see them on occasion, just through the little peak hole, so to speak. And then same thing, as we're on KP duty, we could see the guys, but if you got caught looking, you were gonna get punished by the drill sergeants. And the guys for sure, oh my gosh, the guys. They would try and humiliate them so much when they were around the females. And if they got caught even looking left, right, or even their eyes wandered at all, they were being just humiliated.
00:14:51BONANO: Did you meet any special people during basic friends, things like that?
00:14:57GULAR: Yeah. You get really close, but then there's some that you get a little bit closer to, and some of them were just so opposite of my upbringing, and that's what was really interesting. We became the best of friends, and I think the reason for that is because we found each other so interesting. We could kid around with each other and poke fun at each other, whether it be our accents or things we said or things that we do or mannerisms, and it was more or out of fun and it just made it. I don't know, more cohesive because we could do that. So, yes, I had a handful that were a lot closer and we could truly trust each other. And we were the ones that, you know, we would bond together to help other people out. And during your basic training, sometimes you're selected as a platoon leader or a squad leader, things like that. So, you definitely have to have a strong support system and you know who you can rely on when things aren't going right and you're like, hey, and they'll pick up the slack. And so, that way there's nobody getting in trouble and stuff. So, yes, there is that close knit too where we can rely in each other.
00:16:07BONANO: Okay. Did your family make it out for graduation?
00:16:11GULAR: They did not. No. Like I said, being a dairy farm, it's difficult to get away because then you have to have people. Do that, so unfortunately no, they did not make it to graduation.
00:16:24BONANO: How did you feel about that?
00:16:26GULAR: It was a little odd because as you're looking around and you're seeing all of these families show up and they're hugging and they are excited. There was some of us that didn't have families, so I wasn't the only one. So, we all just hung out and some of the families adopted us. So, when they went, you couldn't go far, so we'd go to the bowling alley and we were all bowling together or whatever. Um, after graduation and between that time period and by the time we got on the busses and stuff like that so other family members adopted us and took us in and we joined with their families. So, I wasn't the only one like I said you're never the only one so you always are a group of whatever and that common denominator happened to be we didn't have our families there.
00:17:08BONANO: Were you able to be in contact with your family during basic phone calls?
00:17:11GULAR: Very little. Yeah, the very first phone call was very short we were given a, basically, script, this is what you can tell them, you're here, you're safe, and you will not talk to them for how many weeks, I don't remember what it was. The only way to reach them would be through. Even our first letter to home was very strict to give them instructions on what they could send, what they couldn't, and how to address envelopes and things like that, so it was very strict.
00:17:43BONANO: Okay. So, you graduated basic in, I got March 1987, correct?
00:17:48GULAR: Yes, roughly around that time.
00:17:50BONANO: So, and then you go to Fort Jackson, South Carolina for advanced training. How did you get there?
00:17:57GULAR: That was through -- on a bus. Yeah, a bus and some of the people that I graduated through basic training actually did come to AIT [Advanced Individual Training] with me to that advanced training so at least we had some, even if we didn't know each other, you became very good friends even through the bus ride. And at that point, then there were some guys that were going with us, because then it is coed. And I had some very, very -- strong bonds and friendships with guys that I could trust as just pals, just your typical soldiers left and right of you.
00:18:34BONANO: So, you got to Fort Jackson and you received training for administrative specialist, correct?
00:18:39GULAR: Yes.
00:18:40BONANO: Tell me about classes and things like that.
00:18:43GULAR: Everybody pretty much goes to the same type of thing every morning is typical kind of like basic training you get up, you do your PT, you have your routine and then you basically have classroom training and it's at that point you've learned all the military training for the most part and now you are learning your job that you're supposed to be doing in the military and so it's for the most part classroom training. And then we went to the field because no matter what MOS you are at some point, you're gonna have to either be deployed or go to the field or what have you. So, then we also had a week's worth of doing our job and going to the field and in that environment. So, they try and expose you to the different environments that you would be in with your job, no matter what. So, it was a -- fairly more lax because on the weekends we actually had our weekends to ourselves. We couldn't get, sometimes you could get a pass to get off the installation but for the most part it was just a pass to be able to go on the installation whether it be, you know, just going to the PX or they did have a club so on occasion we could get pass to be to go to the club or whatever on a Friday night together.
00:19:53BONANO: Okay, why did you choose admin specialist.
00:19:57GULAR: At the time, I actually wanted to go in as an MP, military police. And just like any place, they look at what their needs are and at that point in time they said, we don't need military police, we have that quota met. And they gave me a couple other options, but they really, and I don't know, maybe it was because I was a female and the way I looked at they really pushed me towards admin, I'm not sure. I don't know, it wasn't on my mind, wasn't anything. They kind of proposed it to me. I looked what it did, and I'm like, sure. And it turned out to be, to me, one of the best of both worlds because I was more administrative. HR is really a lot of the things that I did, more HR type stuff, taking care of soldiers, pay promotions and things like that with more or less an office environment, but then I had the fun of being a soldier, regular soldier. We're going to the field, shooting our weapons, same type of physical environment of obstacle courses and of course then later I signed up for jump school too. But so, you have the best of both worlds. You can have that soldier, strong soldier side, but yet also have a little bit more of that admin side and not have to be all in climate weather all the time and things like that. So, yeah, it turned out to be actually great. So, somebody was looking out for me at that time.
00:21:21BONANO: Sure. Why did you want to be military police? Can I ask that?
00:21:25GULAR: I think, again, I was looking for excitement, more physical and that seemed to be something that I thought would be a lot of fun. Also, I always look at the uniform and carrying a gun, carrying a weapon, and the protocol of military police. I don't know, it just, it really, it was something that sparked me and I thought I really wanted to do that, but when that got shut down, like I said, then it was kind of like, well, here's what we have. Select one.
00:21:56BONANO: When you started training for admin specialist, what were you thinking about that type of training? Like, were you're thinking already at that point, maybe I'll do this after the military or no?
00:22:05GULAR: No. I was not even a good typist at the time. Even in the high school, I remember having, I had taken some typing class and whatever, and I'm like, oh, I really suck at this. So, when I got there, I'm like, oh, why did I do this? Because other people could do things so much quicker and I'm still trying to figure out these keys and things. So, at first, I thought, I don't know why I did this. This is not for me. This admin thing is not me. So, luckily, I mean, I got through it because you had to meet certain requirements too. But in the end, throughout my career, it transitioned from what I was trained to do really into more of an HR environment. So, it turned out fabulous.
00:22:47BONANO: Awesome. So, what were your classes like? What were you specifically learning.
00:22:51GULAR: Um, back then it was really typing for one and no computers. We were on typewriters and I think that was a big part of it too. So, errors, anything like that. So, when you would do a typing test, if there was errors, you got docked. And so, you had to meet a certain speed for typing. And what's really interesting is we had a lot of men, a lot of men in this, um, it wasn't all females or we had at least half men or more guys in this environment. Filing, and that's just a big part of it was typing and filing and really just all types of office environment and basically taking care of that. We call it the S-1, which is a personnel service center is what most of us would have been assigned to as a personnel services center and that is just really taking care of the soldiers on the administrative side.
00:23:45BONANO: Okay, and what was the discipline like during advanced training?
00:23:48GULAR: During advanced training it was a little bit more lenient. You know, we still had that strong structure. We still had drill sergeants and we still have to meet criteria. Still our rooms got inspected. We got inspected. We still had to meet all of that like we did in basic training. But because of the training was so focused on our particular career and job and not so much on like basic training where they're breaking you down and building you up and really teaching you how to be a soldier. This was, now their job was to train us on how to do our job, so that way when we got to our unit, we could actually jump in and hopefully just start our job without too much guidance.
00:24:30BONANO: So, at the end of advanced training in May 1987, you completed the U.S. Army Basic Airborne course
00:24:38GULAR: Yeah.
00:24:39BONANO: -- or jump school at Fort Benning, Georgia. Tell me about earning your jump wings.
00:24:46GULAR: So, before I signed up for that, I honestly was not looking at Airborne. I didn't go in saying I was going to be Airborne, didn't really know a whole lot about it then. Friends of mine talked me into going to the briefing. They said, Jazz, come to us with this briefing for support. I'm like, what is it? And they said, Airborne? I'm, like, who the hell would want to jump out of a plane? Perfectly good airplane. And they're like, come on, just come with us. I'm like alright, I'm going with you, I'll support you. Next thing you know, I am signing the line. And again, it was all about adventure and trying things I never tried and -- and of course they do a super great job with the video and really marketing and I found myself signing that line and I called my parents and said hey I signed up for airborne school and of course they're very civilian. So, they didn't know what it was and when I explained it to them I they were not happy with me and again people who don't like airplanes or anything like that and my dad said well you need to you need to tell me you don't want to do that. I'm like you can't do that in the military So, what's interesting in AIT, you receive your orders of where you're supposed to go. I actually got orders to go to Hawaii. And the drill sergeant gave me my orders and then he yanked them out of my hands and he said, no, you signed up for airborne school so you don't get to go Hawaii. So, I was like, oh my gosh, what did I do? Maybe I'm not supposed to do airborne school, but no, I absolutely loved it again. It's just excitement. It's the unknown and really just trying to approach things with just an open mind and excitement versus fear and you know you get there and instead of drill sergeants they have what they call black hats and the reason why they call them black hats is because they're jumpmasters that are instructing you and they all wear a black hat to signify that they are the leaders and the instructors there. So, that's how we approached them, black hats. And we were all assigned to different platoons. And there is more men than women, but it didn't matter what you were, you had to do the same criteria. One of the biggest things that, how they lose people, one is unfortunately injuries. Others were people like, this is not for me, I'm out of here, and then the other one is a run. So, every day you have to do, I think it was just two miles. It was a two-mile run, but it's a fast run. And if you fall out, you're out. No second chances, no nothing, no excuses. You fell out of the run, pack your bags, you're on your way. So, they lost a lot of people through that run. So, I have to thank my drill sergeant for putting me in the fast group that pushed me to actually get better at my running because that made jump school a whole lot better to be able to at least get through that part of it and not worry about falling out of runs. We -- they basically took us through how to land, a lot of it was how to land at first because of injury and we would have to jump off platforms and do a proper PLF is what they call it, parachute landing fall, and it was knees together. You know, bent, trying to land on the balls of your feet. And there's so many, you know different parts of your body are supposed to roll and things like that to lessen the impact of the landing. So, that was pretty much a lot of the training was doing that. And it was in Georgia. So, it was super hot. And in order to cool us down they would make us stand there and they would take a hose and spray us down. And we just had to stand there like this as they sprayed us down And then they would say, okay, drop and roll. We were in sawdust. So, then we had sawdust just clinging to us and just miserable with the sawdust, but that was just their way of, again, it's a lot of psychological, get through that type of thing and just kind of keep marching on. And then we graduate from jumping off a platform to then jumping from towers. And then they would have the towers and they would have one black hat up above, making sure we were harnessed properly. They would have others below and making sure we were exiting those towers properly. And then one at the other end to unhook us and so forth. So, graduated from the towers. And then we had the parachute landing forward. They actually would pull a chute all the way up and then they'd release you. So, not everybody got to do that, but I did get to do that. It was pretty neat, just dangling up there in a chute and then basically showing you how to pull on your risers, to steer, and so all these little steps to finally when you get to jump out of a plane.
00:29:38BONANO: And so, you graduated with your wings. How would you call that? Parachutist?
00:29:45GULAR: Yep, parachutist wings.
00:29:47BONANO: Parachute wings. So, after you had graduated, your intention was to do what?
00:29:54GULAR: At that point then you get orders. They're already trying to process you as you're going through jump school and if you graduate they already look at your MOS and everything and where you're needed so the army has their own process on how they assign people and my orders were to Fort Bragg and that's pretty typical because the 82nd airborne is at Fort Bragg so once you are qualified parachutists then that's standard that that's probably where you are going to go and I did get my orders to Fort Bragg.
00:30:24BONANO: Okay. That's a good transition because that's where I was going to go next. So, I got in June 1987, you end up with the 82nd Aviation Brigade, 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. At that point you have your, um, your jump wings, you're still an admin specialist. So, tell me what it was like going to Fort Bragg.
00:30:46GULAR: Going to Fort Bragg was really interesting because it was really heavy on the male side. There was hardly any women at that point. You know, that's back in the '80s. So, the 82nd had just started accepting women into the 82nd Airborne. A lot of them were assigned to headquarters because headquarters does have more of a heavy admin side of it. And I was assigned to the aviation brigade which was totally kind of off-the-wall for where my other friends were going. All of those they were going to the 82nd headquarters for the most part except for some of the guys went down the street. But and I remember telling like why can't I go with my friends? Why am I the only one going to the aviation brigade and they said oh you will thank us once you get there you will know why and you'll thank us later why you're in the aviation brigade or for sending you to the aviation brigade. I'm like no at that point I just wanted to be with my friend and sure enough. I was the only once so then they make you stand in line and wherever unit you're going to, you have your bags, and everybody stand in line, and then the unit comes to pick you up. I was the only one standing in the Aviation Brigade line, and again, feeling that only person, I was like, no, I would rather be with all of them in this line, and the guy that picked me up was Sergeant McCrumb, and he was from Wisconsin, so it was pretty ironic, and he was excited to see me, he was, yeah, I'm from, I think he said, Pardeeville.. And so, he picked me up. So I was like, oh, thank God, you know, so now I have somebody at least from Wisconsin and we're talking just like normal people and not so structured, you now, and he was a sergeant at the time and but just super excited, somebody from Wisconsin and picking me up and again, being in a very male dominant and a unit that was just starting to accept females. They had already had one female but she was married and was on maternity leave at the time. So, here I come, that next female coming into their unit. When I walked into the door it was buzzing. Everybody was talking, working, whatever, and it's a big open bay and all of a sudden everything just went hush. It went from buzzing to and everybody's staring at me. So, I was like this alien that just walked in and the sergeant who was in charge, he walked out to find out what was going on and he's kind of a funny guy. He's this short, a little bit chubbier Hispanic guy and he comes out with his hands on his hips and he was like, what is everybody looking at you, numbskulls, get back to work. And he is just given, you know, and then he goes, you, in my office. And I'm like, ah, this is not the way I want to start this. This is just way too much attention. And I went in his office and he's standing there with his hands on his hips, take a drag off his cigarette because back then you could smoke too. And he was rubbing his head. He's like, what the F am I supposed to do with you? I'm thinking, I don't know, but I really wanted to go down the street and I really didn't want to be here. But didn't tell him that, but I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, this is a great start. So, they're trying to figure out where they can put me in the barracks. And he said, he had me on the first floor and he's like, no, those numbskulls, will be looking in the window. So, he throughs -- get her on the third floor. It was, it was a transition for all of them. I don't knock any of the guys for their reaction because truly, when you're in an environment with just the guys, they can just kind of be free and act like normal guys do, and then you throw a female in the mix, and it does, it kind of turns things upside down on, oh, how do we do this, you know? So, that was my first day, and I got better from there. I met everybody, and actually that was the day that I met my husband. I did not know he was going to be my husband! But I could see the sincere look on his face of concern, and he just looked at me and said, if you need anything, do not hesitate. I could his concern on his face. And he and a couple of the other guys turned out to be like my best friends. So, we were 100 percent best friends for, I don't know, three, four months before actually my husband and I, Kevin, even started dating. So, they were just guys that I could 100 percent I could trust. They would look out for my best interests, sometimes too much. They were just like brothers that were overprotective. But everybody was just, yeah, absolutely super great supportive. I always had to deal with some form of harassment from somebody or my first sergeant was really hard on the harassment side of it, not sexually. But just the fact of a female and just really, really hard on me, always putting me on details, in fact, to the point where the guys would hide me. They didn't know how to deal with it either because they're like, what do we do? And so, they're, like, hey, Top, and the first sergeants are called Tops, like Top's coming up, go in the latrine, just stay in the latrine and we'll let you know when he leaves. And I'm thinking, I gotta stay in the latrine until he leaves. But I knew if I didn't and he saw me, next thing I would be on a detail somewhere. I'd be doing something that I don't know what it was. It's just, I was a target for him. I guess I have to be thankful that it wasn't sexual harassment, that it was just harassment in general. But I had great guys, like I said, they were doing everything they could to kind of protect me that way, but didn't really know how to handle it either. I mean, it's all new. In that aspect, and yeah, we just dealt with it the way we knew best to deal with it. And as time went on, then we ended up getting a few more females here and there, so, but still it was very heavy on the male side, we didn't have that many females in our unit.
00:36:36BONANO: Okay, so you were literally the only woman there when you joined. How big was your unit? So, one woman out of how many people?
00:36:44GULAR: I would say our brigade was well over 500 and then of course 82nd is humongous, I mean that's thousands. I would say each brigade and each company and things had at least over a hundred. So anywhere from just shy of a thousand, you know, five hundred to a thousand. So yeah, it's a lot of men. And the barracks, it was interesting too. I was the only female in the barrack and you're basically in this building with a couple or a hundred men in each barrack set. And I would go in the orderly room or the break room. And they would just catch them off guard, you know, they're just not used to that. So, but we all got used to it and it's just, you learn and you grow. And sometimes when somebody's out of hand, somebody else will put them in their place or whatever. So, there was always that. And I learned, I grew up very, very quickly. I did. Coming from a small town, 18 -year-old girl, there was many things that I had to really, really kind of grow and learn. And my husband, well. He was my friend at the time. He would get so mad at me because I would just walk across a parking lot and go to the PX and it would be kind of dusk or darker. And, and he would so mad, he's like, you are not in Kansas anymore, Dorothy. You need to wake up. This is, you know, you really have to pay attention. Your head's got to be on a swivel. So, he would get so mad at me sometimes because I just, I was so used to being from a small town. You didn't have to lock your doors. Everybody for the most part was friendly. And you know. And so, I learned very quickly too, like my friendly personality to them sometimes would take it, they would take too far, like they would think, oh, she's interested in me and it was not the case. So, I learned very quickly to kind of ebb and flow with different things and how to handle things.
00:38:35BONANO: Okay. Um, really quickly, you mentioned the sergeant from Wisconsin, McCrumb. Can you spell that for me?
00:38:43GULAR: MC and then a capital C R-U-M-B.
00:38:47BONANO: McCrumb. Okay. Yeah. So, um, really quick quickly, the, the um, the top that was harassing you.
00:38:53GULAR: Yeah.
00:38:54BONANO: Um, you said it wasn't sexual, but was it just like him being mean to you or?
00:39:00GULAR: Yeah, I mean there wasn't anything, no matter what I did, he was going to find something to criticize. And I actually had a sergeant major that was that way as well. But yeah, Top was just, anytime he saw me, it's, he would bark something on me. But he was always putting me on extra details or duties and that always comes with the territory. I mean, they're tagged, first sergeants are always tagged like, hey, I need five soldiers. There's a parade going on, I needed five soldiers or we need guard duty at the museum or something like that. And I would get off CQ duty, which is a 24-hour duty. And he's like, he would get the call and he's like, you're going to the parade field. And I'm like, I didn't get no sleep, you know? And so, then I would have one sergeant like, she didn't no sleep. We've been on CQ duty. And so, then again, they were trying to protect me and it's, I don't know what it, it just, I'm not sure. I honestly don't what it was. And I had another sergeant major that was in the S-3, so it was training. And he, I, my hair, like if I had one, back then it was more strict. So, my hair could not come past my collar. But if my hair was touching my collar, he'd be like, your hair's out of regulation. Or if I put my hair back in a pony, he would say that my hair did not match while I had blonde hair. And back then they only had black, you know, hair ties. And, or he would, say, do you have lipstick on? Well, I had chapstick, you now, it's in the middle of winter. And so, he would just harass me as well. But when he started really harassing me about my hair and everything else, I'm like, all right, I'm done with this. So, I went to the barber and I'm, like, give me a high and tight, but leave enough hair on top so that way I look like a female when I'm out of my uniform. And I got my hair cut super, super short. I couldn't even hardly pinch it, but I had enough hair on top so when I took my beret, when I took my beret off, you could tell I was a female. And in my civilian clothes, you could tell I was a female. And I came to work the next day and he said, what did you do, soldier? And I'm like, what Sergeant Major? That is out of regulation. And he's yelling at me and I'm like, how is it out of a regulation? And he said that is unbecoming of a female soldier, which he couldn't even finish it. And he had a smirk because he had to turn his head because he knew that he was absolutely wrong. And he knew, I guess, the extent that I would go to just cease this craziness. And from that point forward, he did not say another word to me.
00:41:40BONANO: Wow.
00:41:41GULAR: He never harassed me about my hair, about anything whatsoever. So, yeah.
00:41:44BONANO: Wow.
00:41:44GULAR: I guess that's just what it took is just get a hair high and tight and be done with it.
00:41:49BONANO: Yeah, so you met your husband, I noted on the first day.
00:41:53GULAR: Yeah.
00:41:54BONANO: His name's Kevin. Describe meeting him. I know you said you were friends at first.
00:41:58GULAR: Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:58BONANO: But what was that like?
00:41:59GULAR: Yeah, so that whole day, of course, was like a whirlwind because the attention and everything, but he was sitting at a desk and he happened to work, he's a personalist, so he was in that office working at the time. He was getting ready to be reassigned to one of the new battalions down the street. I remember him being the only one that actually stood up, looked me in the eye, and shook my hand. Like I said, though, the look of concern for him was like, oh, this poor girl is what I'm thinking. But then beyond that, it was such a whirlwind. It was meeting so many different people and dealing with all of that for a while, but they truly took me under their wing like big brothers. And really that we were just best of buds and he ended up going down the street, which is great because you can't have fraternization in the military. And even that was really pushing it because he was still part of the brigade. I was at brigade level and he went down to one of our battalions. So, we were kind of pushing it a little bit when we started dating and then he ended up getting promoted to sergeant. So, then it really was, um, we probably should have not been doing that, but how do you just like stop a relationship? So, we tried to kind of hide it a little bit. His sergeant major, when I would come in though, his sergeant major would walk the other way because he knew. And finally, after -- I don't know, quite some time, he told Kevin, he said, when are you gonna marry that girl? And I think it was more because he was so tired of the pressure on his own because he the command sergeant major and he knew that we had a relationship and he always had to turn the other way and try and ignore that fact. And finally, he just told him, when are gonna marry the girl, you know, but, and we ended up getting married a year, a year later after we started dating, so.
00:43:49BONANO: Okay, so in '88, you guys got married?
00:43:49GULAR: Yeah.
00:43:51BONANO: Okay. Awesome. So, more basic questions. What was a typical day like at Fort Bragg?
00:43:58GULAR: Fort Bragg was, it's an elite unit and more so than most other Army units. So, it's pretty hardcore, they're really strict. Every morning is PT, like that's pretty tradition for all Army. You have your PT and depending on what type of commander, some commanders love to run, other commanders like to do other, you know, gung ho, but other things, you and um, so you could run two miles, you could have a commander that loves to run five miles, whatever, and you just basically had to, um, adapt to whatever commander came in and then we were released to go eat chow and, um shower and whatever and report to our regular job, whether it be eight o'clock, nine o' clock in the morning, and then, we would work our regular duties until six, but, uh, being on jump status. That was thrown in the mix as well and so you could be jumping that day. It could be in the middle of the day. It could be a midnight drop and a lot of times we had night drops so we would jump you know 10 o'clock at night, midnight, what have you and not get in till back home till two o' clock in the morning or whatever it was and then sometimes they would allow you to skip PT but other times and oh see you have PT at six in the mornings and start all over again it was really structured. You had your other duties as assigned whether it be grass cutting detail and what we call a police call too. So, every morning we do a police call and that was just basically walking the grounds and picking up any trash and things like that because everything had to be immaculate. We had a sergeant major who absolutely would freak out if you walked on the sidewalk and you cut the corner just a slight bit and you may have stepped on a blade of grass you were on his grass cutting detail the next day. He would come running out and bark orders and like, you are my grass cutting detail, what's your name, soldier? And so, a lot of times we would kind of watch and it was more comical to be able to watch all that happen because I was at the brigade level and watching sergeant major do that was actually pretty funny, but it was true. It wasn't just in our unit. It was pretty much, that's the way the 82nd was. They were hardcore. Your uniform had to be dress right dressed. Your boots had to spit shined at all times. Everything had to top notch. Like there was not a lot of. gray areas in the 82nd, but there's a reason for that because of the type of duties and the job that we had. You had to be that way.
00:46:26BONANO: Okay. What were the working conditions like?
00:46:36GULAR: My particular working condition was, like I said, in an office. So, we were part of the pack. It's a personnel service center. And I, we had computers at that point, finally, we had computers and I was at the headquarters with the commander, the colonel, and the command sergeant major and all of them were there so we always had a lot of top brass, a lot visitors come in and go in and it was more of an office environment, more of a higher level environment, office environment. Soldiers were coming and going because they needed help with like their promotions or what have you. We would have family members come in if their spouse was deployed or whatever if they needed help. So, it was just a whole lot of service oriented office environment. Now I was an aviation so we had all of our aviation units as well. So, we had a lot of pilots and they were doing their missions so they were doing a lot of flights. We had the cavalry that was part of our unit as well so they were scouts, so they were doing their, so even though I had my job. It's It was so diverse in the 82nd Aviation because we all belonged to different platoons, companies, battalions that had their part in servicing. So, yeah, but in the end, we're all a team and we support each other, so.
00:47:53BONANO: So, you learned how to use a computer when you were there?
00:47:57GULAR: Yeah.
00:47:57BONANO: What was that like?
00:47:59GULAR: Yeah, so that's when the computer started coming out, you know, tells you my age, but. Yeah, so I mean fine, obviously it was a relief because I sucked at typing and having all the errors and everything and adjusting the typewriter and whatever. But even back then we had dot matrix printers and you still have those big computers look like a big box, TV, and still early on and a lot of things that needed to be enhanced but it was a huge enhancement to typewriters. Um, no, it was fine. It was actually pleasant.
00:48:38BONANO: Um, in your downtime, what did you do?
00:48:40GULAR: Downtime. When we get off work was, I found really interesting every time I looked back. We hung out with each other even though we spent all day with each other we'd be in the same office or same we'd jump. And we get out the jump or and say hey, what are you doing? And they're like yeah, then we get together so we were like family. It's like You would think we'd be sick of each other because I know in my civilian life, when I worked for the government, I'm like, I am out of here and I didn't talk to my workmates. I didn't go out with them for the most part, not all of them, but no, these guys, we would go out afterwards, you know, whether it be go grab a bite or we get together, play games or, and again, it was a big camaraderie, so we had a softball team. And our brigade had a softball team and that was our big thing too like supporting the guys so my husband and a lot of his unit was on this team and then we had some of my friends from my organization on that team and they ended up being the softball champs of the 82nd Airborne so that was actually when we have 82nd week and things like that so again it's -- we still had all these other competitions where our unit would face off on other units in 82nd and so it was always that rivalry and support and camaraderie and things like that so yeah it was we always found something to do but it always was with each other.
00:50:01BONANO: Were you ever able to see your other friends that you were missing when you went to Fort Bragg?
00:50:06GULAR: On rare occasion did I see, I saw a couple of them that actually went down the street, and so we'd run into each other if we ended up going to headquarters to drop something off or whatever. We would see each other. We really didn't stay in touch and go out together after that because, again, you get with your units and then you form those. Not that we didn't talk because we did stay in a touch a little bit, but not like we did. It's like any time that you're in an environment, you just become so close like family that it just becomes what it is. And not that you don't neglect them, you just hook up some other time.
00:50:47BONANO: Any other special people you remember from your unit besides I guess your husband?
00:50:52GULAR: Yeah, we still are actually in very close contact with some of our other friends. Dale Pringle, he served with my husband. They went, especially during deployment, and he and his wife at the time were good friends with us. And I have John LaBrose, Rob McClintock, and some of those we stay still in touch. In fact, we just saw Dale last month. We still visit them. And now we have the 82nd Airborne Convention that we are a part of. So, we are lifetime members of the 82 Airborne and every year they do a convention. And so, all veterans, and then there's also active duty that come. And it's just phenomenal because it's like, it puts you back in that environment. And it was really cool because they have a formal night. So, it's a dinner, the 82nd chorus comes or the band comes and things like that and really celebrate those veterans who have served. For all of those years. And people come from all over the place. This year it's in San Antonio, Texas. So, we'll all meet up in San Antonio.
00:52:00BONANO: Awesome. A couple things, you noted on your form during this period of time you were kept as rear detachment when the 82nd was deployed.
00:52:11GULAR: Um-hum.
00:52:12BONANO: Where was the 82nd deployed and when was that?
00:52:15GULAR: That was during the Desert Storm, Desert Shield Desert Storm. And during that time, I was part of the team that did the manifest for everybody being deployed. So, my husband got deployed first, and that was really interesting because I was part of it. I was that person who had to manifest him, put him on the list. And I think everybody was watching our reaction because we were married at the time, and I had to call the names off. As they loaded the bird. And when I called my husband's name, I tried to keep it just like I did with the rest of the soldiers. And I could feel all the eyes on me to see what my reaction was, but we said our goodbyes and words prior to that because I knew it was gonna be extremely difficult and I had to, in the 82nd, back then, now you can show more emotion, but you did have to put that wall up and it was a soldier first versus family and emotions and things like that. So, um, that was very difficult but that's what I did for the deployment is basically doing the manifest. And at one point I had a captain call to, he wanted me to come, come over and my husband's like oh, I don't know, this is not going to be good because you know it's just all guys here and they are not going you know I just don't that conflict of like attention on me and things like that and there was no reason for me to be there honestly because at that point they were sitting waiting for things to happen and they just -- my colonel who was rear detachment and then the sergeant major who was rear detachment they said there's no way we're letting you go because at that point we had so many issues going on with pay. So, when the guys got deployed, obviously there wasn't jump status. They didn't have their hazardous duty pay kick in yet. They also, it was just chaos. As much as we said that we were prepared to deploy, when it came to the family side, unfortunately they were not ready. So, ah, we had a lot of family members coming in crying because they didn't have enough money to pay for rent, to pay food. And you know some of these wives were coming in, they got a baby on one hip and then another little toddler over here. They were like, there's no way we're going to, you were so needed back here. But a lot of it too, I think, is because my husband was deployed and we were married. I don't think they felt right having both of us over there, even though we didn't have kids at the time. So, that was new to having spouses be deployed at that point in time. They were really trying to keep that separate and keep one back. And it worked out just fine because, like I said, there was a whole lot going on in the rear detachment. And there were moments when I was in rear detachment that there was so much going on emotionally with these families and seeing all that, that I felt like it would have been easier for me to get deployed. And that's why I told him, like, you know, I think I want to come over, Kevin. And he's like, do not do it. No, you don't want to do it, so I ended up not going. But I was very proud of everything that we did, rear detachments, to help the families and to help soldiers too, so they knew that their families were being taken care of properly.
00:55:31BONANO: All right, so -- that was Desert Storm, Desert Shield --
00:55:35GULAR: Yeah.
00:55:35BONANO: -- in 1990, right? Yah, do you know how long Kevin was away and where did he go?
00:55:39GULAR: Yeah, he was gone for about a year, and that's pretty much with most of our group. We had some that moved forward a little bit sooner because they had to get their prep set up and then the rest of the everybody follows. That's just the way it is. You always have a forward moving group and then you have those that come behind and then those that stay behind to finish up. And he went over in September and I think he returned like late August or something like that, so right at a year. So, we spent our first anniversary with him deployed, which other people, they all deal with the same thing. I was just part of being a military family, yeah, and he was basically with them. They were in Saudi and ended up in Iraq at one point and then returned.
00:56:27BONANO: Okay. And you were able to keep in contact with them that whole time pretty well, or no?
00:56:30GULAR: Yeah, I honestly think that I had, again, the best of both worlds because I was military, I was in their unit, and I was at the brigade level. So, I was privy to everything that we were doing and I had the clearance enough to be able to sit in on some meetings. So, I knew exactly where they were and what movements they were making and anything that was happening. And when I watched the news, it was horrific, the news was so off. And the things that they were saying, then I would have family members asking me, and I'm like, I can't tell you where they are. I just have to tell you that the news is 100 percent wrong. And they said, would you let us know if anything changes? And I said, well, that's what we have family support groups for. You will be briefed at a family support group because I'm not able to tell some of the things. But all I can tell you is what you're hearing is 100 percent wrong. And they're like, okay, so they were good with that. And that was the most frustrating thing. And it's still today with the news. I mean, the news is so wrong on many levels and you're only getting snippets of the information. So, I was very fortunate to have information and then -- other times when the guys would call back to the rear, we had what we call the red phone. We call it the bat phone. But it truly was a red phone, so when the red phone rang, you knew you needed to pick it up because it was either one, you're getting called up for deployment, there's always something, it was usually, or in this case, it was those that were forward, they were calling back for something. When I picked it up one time, it happened to be my husband. And he truly was calling back because he needed something. I just happened to the one on the other end. So, yeah, so we actually got to talk a little bit. A lot of times, obviously we had to keep it very, very official, things like that. But yeah, we were blessed to be able to have some type of communication where others did not.
00:58:24BONANO: Okay. My last question is just because, you know, it's interesting when people have to deal with the conflict. What were your feelings around the conflict starting? Did you feel like, you know, oh, we're going to have to go to that, you know?
00:58:38GULAR: Actually, again, it was excitement. You train for all of this, all of the time that you're training, and the guys were the unit. I can't keep saying guys, because obviously there's females, but that's just typical of me. I say guys, no matter what. You're ready for it. And when we heard that it was going to happen, it's like, okay, let's go, let' go, like everybody was, they were tired of waiting. They were tired waiting. Yum, so, when the deployment happened, they were ready and they were excited about it and they were ready to do what was needed to be done. And same thing with me, even though it was my husband being deployed, there's that emotional, but he was ready, I would, we had our job, it was, it's weird being military and being that soldier and trying to tap out of us also being military or are married and have that emotional side, but somehow we were able to really, I don't know, we were just so gung ho and loved being soldiers that it was it, you know, and we can kind of put the whole emotional side away a little bit.
00:59:47BONANO: Were there any, uh, conflicted feelings about the fact that, you know, you had been training for this, but you stood behind a rear detachment?
01:00:00GULAR: Yeah, there were times of that too. I was like I felt like I needed to be over there with -- there was that guilt or whatever and feeling like I needed to be over there but then I saw the things that needed to done behind the scenes too as a rear detachment to support those forward and I thought if I go forward I just don't think things would get done the way I felt they needed to get done. At that point I was a sergeant as well. And, yum, so I was in charge of certain things, and I wanted to make sure those things were operating. Take care of these families, take care of everything, and make sure the guys had what they needed too. So, it was really taking care of them. And if I was over there, I would be in the same predicament that they were. They were calling back to get our help because they were in the middle of sand, and they didn't have the resources. So, they were relying heavily on us. So yes, I had a little bit of a guilt at first, but then. That kind of went away after I saw the importance of what we were doing to support them that were forward.
01:01:00BONANO: Alright. I also have that you completed a jumpmaster course in 1991, tell me about that.
01:01:07GULAR: So, the jumpmaster course came, the guys, I think the guys had already started redeploying, they started coming back, but it's something that I always had in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a jumpmaster and this was, I told my grandfather that I was going to Jump School and I said, eventually I want to be jumpmaster. And so, he kept saying, well, when are you going to be the Jump master? He kept asking me that and he had passed a year after I had gone in the military. So, part of me wanted to complete it because I've always wanted to, for whatever reason, it was in my mind, but also, because I promised my grandfather that I would. And when the time came, they opened up jumpmaster school at Fort Bragg. A lot of times you had to go back to Fort Benning and Fort Bragg started doing their own jumpmaster courses and things. So, I put in the paperwork to do it. Well, the same captain that kept screaming for me to come forward and be deployed. Was the same captain that was going, he denied my jumpmaster packet. And he said, I'm not signing that. He said, you're a female and you're not going to get deployed so I'm signing that. And, or no, he said you'll never jump into combat so why should I sign that? And I was so furious because at that point, honestly, the 82nd had not, they haven't jumped into combat for quite some time. Even when we went over to Desert Shield, Desert Storm, they didn't jump in. So, I was furious and the sergeant major saw me, the Command Sergeant Major, he's like, what's up, what's going on Sergeant Gular? And I explained it to him, he goes, give me that paperwork. He takes it, he marches into the commander's office, commander signed it, didn't ask any questions, he came back out and back then, of course, there was lot off bounds. He goes, now effin' pass this course. Do not fail. And I said, got it, I will do my best. And so, that's why I ended up in the jumpmaster course. Nothing, I don't want to say his name, I shouldn't say his, I won't bust him out, the captain. He was never one of my favorite people, he truly wasn't. And because of my sergeant major and my commander who supported it, and of course my husband at the time. So, jumpmaster course is a very difficult course. The failure rate is 50 percent. Because again, they're very strict, because you are in charge of all of these jumpers to make sure that they have a very safe jump and the training is very intense. And yeah, it's a very strict course. So, 50 percent dropout or not dropout, failure rate. So, I pretty much had to close myself off during that time going to jump school, lock myself in a room, study. And there's certain actions in the aircraft and a lot of them is the, you're doing the door inspection. So, I would use the door jams of our house and go through the motions and do all of that and hang out as if I was hanging out of the aircraft and things like that. So, it's not unusual. Everybody does that. I mean it's just what you have to do to really go through the motions, and study, and get everything right. And it was a very tough course. I was the only female in that course. And it's interesting when you are a female going through training and when you pass something, even though you have a lot of times put up 110 more percent because you are female, because there's different challenges. When you pass a course, especially like that, there's guys that will say, well, she got it before because she's a female. And that is something that has followed me always, doesn't matter what I did. Yum, but then there's others that are, it's just what it is. And that was one of those, I hear some of the guys, well, she passed because she's a female or whatever, and was not the case, because everybody had to do the same thing. They did, there was no gray areas in jumpmaster school. A lot of memorization, you have to learn pre-jump, things like that, inspection of the paratrooper and make sure all their gear is proper. And, yeah, very intense, very tense. So, it was a very proud moment. I know when the last test that we had to do was actions in the aircraft where you give the commands on the aircraft and then you jump out. And if you did something wrong in that test, your paperwork would go out with you. So, as we're watching these guys, I'm like, oh no, we just screwed up, but they'll keep going. And when he jumped out, there goes his paperwork. So, as soon as I jumped out. I didn't even check my chute. I'm looking for paperwork to make sure that I passed. And then when I didn't see the paperwork, I'm like, yes. And so, that was the last test of this. And yeah, it was a very proud moment. My command sergeant major came to my graduation. And that other sergeant major who harassed me all those years, like with the hair and everything like that, he was actually a jumpmaster. And he was a Vietnam air vet and things like that. He actually came up to me after I graduated from jumpmaster school and said, Sergeant Gular, I'm proud of you. And if you ever need a jumpmaster on your bird, I will be your jumpmaster with you. So, it's those moments where, you know, it's like, okay, you know, so a lot of times when you're doing that, you're doing it for yourself, but also you're earning the respect of those around you. And I think that's always something I kept in mind is. It's not just about me too, it's like I want their respect because I never wanted to be one to fall out of a run or I never want to be that one where they all got to pick up the slack for. So, it was always challenging. So, when it came to PT, I would go to PT in the morning with the guys but after work, I'd go to the gym. And I would do other things so that way, my body was still able, I could keep up with the guys no matter what I did. And it was just something that I personally would do because I just did not want to be that person. And jumpmaster school was one of those. It's very intense, so. With jumpmaster school, once you graduate, then you have other criteria. You have to serve as a safety, so that safety's on the aircraft and there's certain things that a safety have to do. You have so many times to serve a safety. And then you have to serve as a jumpmaster so many times in order to earn your senior wings. So, there's other criteria. And one of my jumps that I had that I was a jumpmaster on, I actually had an incident where I landed in trees. So, no matter how much you train, no matter much advanced schooling you get, there's just things that are out of your control and they happen. And as a jumpmaster, you, um, your chalk goes out. Once the last jumper exits, you do your check to make sure there's not a towed jumper. So, when I say there's no towed jumper, sometimes it happens where the chute gets caught and unfortunately a paratrooper is dangling by a chute and he's out there flapping with the aircraft. When that happens, as a jumpmaster, you need to cut them free or try and bring them in, whichever, there's different circumstances for that. And so I did my last check. All was good and the light was still green. As soon as my foot left the platform, it turned red. I could see it out of the corner of my eye and I went, oh no. I looked down and there was no way of avoiding the trees. So, I landed in a tree. And again, you go through training for this. So, you're ready, you've protected my face, everything. And sure enough, I went, whew, and I stopped and I was not touching the ground. So, I could not feel, I could not tell. I couldn't even see my hand in front of my face. It was so dark. It was a night drop. Could not tell how far off the ground I was. Nothing like that. So, I dangled there for a little bit. I'm like, well, I'm staying here because I can't wait for the guys to come get me. And then, I decided that I was going to release one of my canopy releases and see what it did. And when I reached up to do it, all of a sudden, my shoot gave way. And my foot touched the ground; I was literally maybe a foot off the ground and not knowing it. So, at that point I was like, oh thank God I did not wait for the guys to come get me because in the military you earn nicknames usually because of your last name, usually because something either you did great or something that you absolutely screwed up on or did something stupid. That's how you earn a nickname. And thank God that I did not wait for those guys because I would have definitely earned another nickname and it wouldn't have been good. So, I was able to recover my chute and get off the drop zone. But that was one of those moments where I thought, oh my gosh. But it was really interesting because yeah, I'm dangling there and I could not see nothing. So, and luckily, I got through the trees without injury. And there's other times too, like you have incidents. No matter how hard you train, I collided with another jumper underneath the aircraft once. And when I hit, when we hit, I didn't know if I hit the aircraft. I didn't know if I was going to be a towed jumper, what was going on. And then luckily he, we hit so hard he bounced off of me. And I looked up and then my chute opened and we weren't entangled or anything. So, there's a couple different instances. And again, I was a jumpmaster. He was a jumpmaster. We weren't jumpmasters on the same bird. Or on that bird, we weren't acting as jumpmasters, we were just actually jumpers. And we're supposed to stagger going out each door and that's the way we train. Sometimes things get off sync, no matter how hard you train or whatever. So, we must have exited simultaneously and came in under the belly and just impacted and bounced off. He ended up with a concussion and he ended up hitting my hip and thigh with his head. And thank God, God blessed me with hard hips and thighs, because I didn't really have any injuries. It hurt at the time, but nothing afterwards. But the poor guy ended up with a concussion and wasn't able to jump for a while. But that's the only incidence that I had and walked away from him. So, other than that, everything was pretty safe for the most part. And mostly exciting except for when the aircraft, when they do Map of the Earth and you've got everybody sick as a dog and you just want to get off the aircraft because they have all thrown up in their bags that were given to them.
01:11:24BONANO: And you were a jumpmaster for other training drops?
01:11:29GULAR: Yep, so you serve as jumpmaster on pretty much, not just your unit, the 82nd could call up and say, hey, we've got a bird and we're short on jumpmasters. We need you to jumpmaster this. So, you're jumpmastering for other organizations down the street, yum, or other times that they need to fill a bird. And when I say bird, that means aircraft. So, if they have a bird and they don't have enough jumpers, then they'll call up our unit and say, hey, I need jumpers. We need to fill this bird. So, same thing with jumpmasters. We'll just do. Chase jumps, so to speak, too, as a jumpmaster, because you need to meet certain criteria. So, we'll chase jumps and we'll be like, hey, you guys need a jumpmaster? And we'll serve as a jumpmaster, or safety, or anything like that. Again, it's a team thing. It's not our unit against your unit. It's like, what are your needs? All right, we come and support you. We serve as that jumpmaster.
01:12:26BONANO: Yum, got it. So that was in '91 that you completed your training and you left the military in '91.
01:12:32GULAR: Yeah.
01:12:33BONANO: So, what were the circumstances of you leaving?
01:12:36GULAR: So, I was getting ready to reenlist again and I talked to our reenlistment guys and I said, okay, what do you have for me? Like we really don't have nothing, which I didn't expect that because at one, I was a jumpmaster. Once you're jump qualified too. They called 82nd the black hole. Once your jump qualified, sometimes they'll send you to Korea and back. A lot of times you don't get other assignments unless you reenlist for them. That's one option. But they really didn't have nothing for me. And at that point I was hitting that five-year mark too. My husband and I had been married for a while and we're like, we really want to start a family as well. So, they're like but If your husband reenlists, you guys can go to Hawaii. And I'm like, really? But that meant that I would get out. And so, I called him up and I said, yep, they said you can get to Hawaii but you have to reenlist within three days. He said, tell him to draft up the paperwork, I'll be down there. So, he was excited because he honestly didn't want me to reenlist the second time I did. So, he looking forward to me getting out at that point. And we did not want to start a family while we were both in the 82nd. It's different for a guy. But as a female, there's no soft landings. And even when we're jumping, you've got gear. If you're jumping combat, you're holding eighty pounds of additional gear on you. And if you don't know you're pregnant, you're really stressing your body out even more. And then the impact, I just didn't want to take that chance of having a miscarriage and things like that, just because of the unknown, unknown that I was pregnant or whatever. And also, the up-tempo of the 82nd, whether it be deployments or training and jumping constantly. My husband and I didn't have a whole lot of personal time. You know, we just, you're up, you're at PT at six, sometimes you don't get home till seven, sometimes midnight drops, sometimes, you know, whatever time. So, around the clock, we were 100 percent, we were soldiers in very little personal time, and I couldn't bring a child into that environment because then that meant I would not see my child. My child would be at somebody's, in somebody else's care at that time. So, at that point, that's the reason, one of the biggest reasons why I chose to get out. I was, we were at that point where we already start a family. And, it'd be different. He could have gotten out, but I still would have been in the circumstance, you know, so, and sure enough a year later, that's when we had our son. He went to Hawaii and I had my son.
01:15:11BONANO: Awesome. Do you think you would have stayed in if you could have?
01:15:16GULAR: Yeah, definitely? Yeah, I love the military. Um, with every profession, there's ups and downs and things like I've been flows and things that you don't like or love or whatever, but when it came to the military, it's just such a unique life of support and honor and unknown, which caused, which brings that excitement as well. It definitely is a different dynamic when you have a family involved at that point. It was just my husband and I. But, I, you know, during that deployment when I saw some of these families, when they had all these children, and that is very, very difficult, and it takes a lot of family support, and it take a lot our support to help those families through it. So, I would have 100 percent been able to stay in if I knew that a family wasn't in our future. But I look back and I know I made the right decision, even though I missed it. It was a very difficult transition going from that up tempo type of environment down into a civilian environment, but then I jumped into that mode of family support groups. So, I was on family support groups and any type of groups that would help our military families. So, I transitioned that way. That helped because I still was serving kind of like I was doing anyway in the military is serving those families. So, that was that was my transition that was helpful. And then of course, my focus then at that point, too, I had my own son. So, um, my focus was then on my son and then supporting my husband when he went into, had to go away for different trainings and so forth.
01:17:00BONANO: Alright. So, initially, how did it feel at the time when you were out, when you were done?
01:17:06GULAR: It's really kind of funny because a friend of mine who was a lieutenant, she was in Mary Kay Cosmetics. Now, I was straight up military, never wore makeup, always was in combat boots. And when I wasn't in boots, it was tennis shoes and sweatpants or shorts or whatever. And when she came to me and said, hey, I want you to go to this Mary Kay event. I was like, what is it? And she's like, oh, you know, skincare, makeup, whatever. I'm like, Oh my god, I don't even know. And she wanted me to put makeup. I'm, like, you have to put it on. I don't even know how to put this stuff on. So, I went to this Mary Kay event and I was, like oh my god this is great. Oh my god, being around women is actually really cool. And everybody was dressed up. I was actually dressed up, I did know how to dress up and she did my makeup because I had no clue. And I had just the greatest time. Next thing I know, I am in the middle of this Mary Kay selling makeup and doing that whole thing. And I absolutely love this. I literally went from combat boots to heels and makeup and that whole girly world of, whatever, and I won a car. So, I found that I can do that whole kind of guy thing and then transition to this more womanly feminine aspect and I found out that yeah, I do have a knack for that. So yeah, through sales and through whatever and recruitment I won a car and I won that car before we actually got to Hawaii.
01:18:34BONANO: Oh, wow.
01:18:34GULAR: So, when I got to Hawaii, they delivered the car to Hawaii and then I continued that for another year. And then I transitioned into other -- other types of work.
01:18:43BONANO: Okay, Wow. You can do it all.
01:18:45GULAR: Yeah.
01:18:46BONANO: So, I have here, so after you left, you did go to Hawaii. How long were you in Hawaii for?
01:18:53GULAR: We were there for three years.
01:18:55BONANO: Okay, so from like '91 and '94.
01:18:57GULAR: Yep. Ninety-five actually is when we got orders to Fort Carson, Colorado. Actually, my husband came up on orders for the 82nd again. And -- but at that point, my husband, we found out that he had spinal cord injuries from jumping. And we only found that out because we were on the beach somewhere and he caught a football and he got like a, he thought it was a stinger. When we got to the hospital, they're like, oh my gosh, no, you have some severe pinching of the spinal cord in areas. And so, he had to have surgery. And he needed two surgeries actually. So, when he came up on orders for the 82nd, they were like, no you cannot jump anymore, not with your neck. Now you can still serve. And he had to prove that he could still be a soldier, still serve and still be deployed, but jumping was out of the picture anymore. So, then we got orders to Fort Carson, Colorado. And that's where he served at Fort Carson for another three years.
01:19:59BONANO: So, okay, Fort Carson, for another three years. So, '98.
01:20:01GULAR: Yeah.
01:20:02BONANO: -- you were done with that? Um, when did your husband, um, is your husband still in the military?
01:20:08GULAR: No, he's retired.
01:20:08BONANO: He's retired. When did he retire?
01:20:11GULAR: He retired in 2003, I think.
01:20:14BONANO: Oh, okay, so I'll just ask then so after in '98 you left Fort Carson where did you guys go?
01:20:18GULAR: Then we went to Fort Belvoir, and he worked at PERSCOM and the Pentagon, and we lived on Fort Belvoir, and that was the first time that I actually came back to the government on the civilian side.
01:20:30BONANO: Oh, okay. And were you there until his retirement?
01:20:34GULAR: No, we, because we're from, I'm from Wisconsin, he had one more tour that he could do. He could either extend there or he could select another tour somewhere else and finish out his retirement. And he said, hey, there's an active duty position at, in Wisconsin. And I said, in, Wisconsin. I said we don't have posts in Wisconsin, and he said yeah, it's Fort McCoy. Never had I ever heard of Fort McCoy, never. So, I had to look it up and, I'm like, I don't think you want to go to Wisconsin. I said, it's freezing cold. I said you've never lived there. I said I've lived there and I don't want to, but he loves the outdoors. And he's been here, obviously, to visit throughout our time of living. And he goes, I love Wisconsin. So, we made an agreement that he could take those orders. We would move back here for three years. We would be able to test it out. And from that point. We would find somewhere else to go and he's like got it. So, um and here we are twenty plus years later we still live in Wisconsin. So, but he did his last three years at Fort McCoy.
01:21:36BONANO: Oh, okay. That's great.
01:21:37GULAR: Yeah, yeah. So, it worked out nice because now we were able to be around family here in Wisconsin because as a military family. Fort Belvoir, his mom does live like forty-five minutes from there, so we were fortunate to be able to have them close. So, we got to see his family and then moving here we were to be close to my family with the kids and stuff. That was actually a nice treat for once.
01:21:57BONANO: Yeah, awesome. So, you've been here since 2000 and since 2000?
01:22:02GULAR: Ya hum.
01:22:03BONANO: Right okay, Um so any use of your veterans' benefits, the VA, the GI Bill, anything like that.
01:22:09GULAR: One hundred percent. Yes, I would say, um, the military has, by far, the best benefits for anybody. Like I said, when I first came into the military, I, up until that point, I really didn't know what I wanted to do. So, the military, I thought was going to buy me that time to figure out what I want to do with my life. And so, when I got out of the military I will say I went back. When I got to Hawaii, as soon as I got out of military, I did go back to school for a bit. My idea was to do the physical therapist, but that transitioned into business. Um, so I used the GI Bill to go back to school, and I also used my veterans' preference when it came to applying for jobs in the government, and so my veterans' preference has helped out tremendously. And I also go to the VA for my care, and, I go to Tomah VA and they have been absolutely phenomenal. You do hear some horror stories from some people when it comes to their care. But I cannot disagree more with them. I have had the most wonderful care at the VA and they have this program called Whole Life, which or Whole Health, and it's more holistic and I am all about holistic. So, when you talk about transitioning to, to where I am today from where I was in the military. I was a hardcore and I'm not proud of it, but I could cuss just as good as the guys and act like they did. And my whole life has transitioned to more of that Zen holistic way of living and care and things like that. So, when the VA had this Whole Health program. It's anything from tai chi, to yoga, to massage, to sound healing, yum, essential oils and so yeah hands down I think it's one of the best programs and it has tremendously helped me and I have no issues whatsoever. I have a wonderful physician too that I've been able to see consistently for the last ten years, I bet, so yeah, super happy with my VA benefits.
01:24:13BONANO: That's great. So, after you had initially left the military, you were at Mary Kay for a little bit. How long were you with Mary Kay?
01:24:23GULAR: I did Mary Kay probably for another year or so, but knew that I didn't want to do sales and that type of thing forever. And then I transitioned to, I worked for CNN, Headline News Radio, as their office manager and commercial person. And then worked in title and escrow. So, all of my military career and the training that I got there, hands down, did transition. And my knowledge transitioned to every job that I had after that because a lot of it was business oriented or office management and a lot these commercial businesses when I would come in and then I'd rearrange or reorganize and get everything in, I call it dress right dress, they were pretty much amazed like oh my gosh this is awesome and I just, it's just the way the military operated so to me that was normal. So, I, yes, I cannot thank the military enough for all of the organization skills and the structure that we get being in the military and that's not just with my job, that's with every military. Everything has a purpose and our training has a purpose and it transitions into safety and efficiency and that is what I always carry through to all of any trends, any career that I've had, and it has definitely benefited me. I always say you can't go wrong if you hire a veteran.
01:25:53BONANO: Right. Are you still working right now? Oh,
01:25:56BONANO: now? I just retired. Oh, congrats. Where were you before you retired?
01:25:59GULAR: I was at the Office of Personnel Management.
01:26:03BONANO: Oh, Okay.
01:26:04GULAR: I was a workforce development specialist.
01:26:06BONANO: With the state government?
01:26:07GULAR: With the federal government.
01:26:10BONANO: Oh, the federal government, okay, awesome. So, yeah, so your office, your admin specialist skills definitely helped you a lot.
01:26:18GULAR: Definitely, yep, yep. Yeah. Everything was HR, Human Resource. Centric.
01:26:25BONANO: My next question is and you kind of touched on this with the 82nd airborne convention You can go into that more if you want, but did you have any involvement with veterans' organizations?
01:26:37GULAR: Mostly with that, I did work at the VA for a stint, too, and that was very honorable as well, you know, seeing those veterans come and go. So, I only worked at the VA for an hour or an hour, one year, and then went back to Fort McCoy. But I worked at Fort McCoy for quite some time, so you're always surrounded by veterans. You're always there supporting the veteran. I worked in the Directorate of Human Resources, which is heavy on the side of supporting our veterans and our soldiers, but also supporting our civilians who support our soldiers. And I would always tell our civilians who work for the federal government, I said, we always tell our soldiers thank you for serving and thank you for everything that you've done. But you really have to look at yourself, and I always tell them, thank you for your support to our soldiers, because without your support and the things that you do, they wouldn't be able to do the things they can to. So, it's an honor to serve both military and also as a civilian that supports our military.
01:27:42BONANO: Awesome, um, did you want to talk more about the 82nd Airborne Convention or no?
01:27:48GULAR: I'm super excited about it. It's again, everything is a tradition. It's just -- last year we went to Tennessee, they had it. And it's just bringing all those, they all have this common thing. So, when you see each other or you meet somebody, it's almost like going back into the day of being military. It's like you've known them forever. You go back to that lifestyle of no discrimination, no, we're all the same. We've all served at the 82nd. We have that common denominator. So, you're my brother or you're miss sister it does not matter and we have a great time we have dinner together there's like a cocktail night then there's the formal dinner and everything is -- they usually have a representative active duty like the command sergeant major of the 82nd would come and speak and you have the active duty soldiers coming and so there's that interaction with them, with the veterans and it's just the neatest thing and I would, I hope a lot of people continue to stick with their history and get together again with their brothers and sisters they served with because it's so important to see them later in their life and still have that camaraderie and that understanding of what they've gone through and yeah, we just love it.
01:29:09BONANO: What are your thoughts on veterans holidays, like Memorial Day, Veterans Day? Do you do anything when those come around?
01:29:15GULAR: Yes, obviously working for the federal government, they always have ceremonies and things like that, so always been a part, always attended those, for sure. But yeah, they do mean a lot because the sacrifices that so many have -- the families have sacrificed their loved ones and lost them, and then also the sacrifices of those who continue to live, but you never know what they've been through, especially during some of the conflicts. Some hide it well, some don't. And it's -- we need to honor them and respect them for where they are and what they have done. So, yeah, that's definitely something that they should continue to do and take the time to honor those.
01:30:02BONANO: What are your thoughts on being a veteran?
01:30:05GULAR: You know, for years, very proud of being a veteran, but because I didn't retire, I kind of was in the shadows for a while of that veteran status, even though I was very proud of it. My husband retired, and so I spent so much of my time also as a spouse of someone who served for 20 years. So, I kind of took on that role and almost forgot about myself, who have served, until probably the last, I don't know, five years or so that I started really looking at, you know, what I have done and then, and going, no, well, just because I did, you know, five years versus 20 years, it's still important and it's something that I can be extremely proud of because in the Army, back then, there was a slogan, be all you can be, and that is truly what I tried to live by. And I think they brought that slogan back. They went away with it for a while, and I thought it was the biggest failure of the Army because in the Army and probably any service, you truly can. Sky is the absolute limit. I mean, I would have never thought that I would jump out of planes or be a jumpmaster, and that was never in my sights as a civilian. And the things that I accomplished and the training and things like that are just something to be truly prideful about. So, just recently they have I Am Not Invisible, and it was all women veterans, and that was just an eye-opener, too, to the fact that we do actually kind of stay in the shadows a lot for some reason. Um, and I think because it was always a man's world, it truly was, it was truly a man world. I mean, there was very little females in the 82nd, so it was heavy on the male side. Um, but, it's very important and it's very important to me now and now I bring it up more often before I would always highlight mostly my husband's career. Even with my children, it was always mostly about dad being in because they were with us when he was in, they weren't with us obviously when I was in and we didn't have children while I was in. So, yeah, it was more heavy on my husband side and now it's kind of transition full circle and we share that more on the same even playing field now.
01:32:28BONANO: Awesome. Um, what do you think your life would have been like if you did not go to the military?
01:32:33GULAR: Oh, [laugh] I think back and I have this conversation with my husband. I'm like, oh my gosh, I couldn't imagine because I love small towns, and I do love living in a small town now. I appreciate it. Back then, I did not, not as an 18-year-old or 17-year-old at the time. And plus being on a dairy farm, I knew that was never in the cards for me. And I thought, oh, God, what would happen if I had not gone in? Would I have married -- would I have met a farmer? I'm like, no, I would never have done that. But I honestly, yeah, I don't know what my life would have been because I don't I think I ever would have. wanted to stay. I just don't know what I would have done to leave, to explore. Other than that flight attendant. That was my that was way out to -- to travel the world and whatever but I Looked back at that. I'm like, yeah, I probably would have maybe gone that route. But yeah, I laugh now because I don't know why flight attendant came up. I never flew in my entire life until I went to basic training. That was a very first flight. I was on the next airplane I was I jumped out of. So, there was like that no in between. There was like, I wasn't exposed to that type of life or that environment. So, why I chose what I did, I am so thankful. I am 100 percent thankful for the military. I don't know what I would have been or done if I had stayed here in Wisconsin in a small town. And I would've never met my husband. That's 100 percent true because he is from Pennsylvania at the time he lived in Virginia too, but he is an East Coast guy and our paths would have never crossed, never. And that's the same thing with a lot of the people that I've come into contact with. I'm like, our paths probably never crossed. I always say things are meant to be. I am a true believer in that and I was always meant to in the military and also get to the 82nd because there's many things that happened that kept detouring me to the 82nd. So, it's really, yeah.
01:34:36BONANO: Alright. What motivated you to do this interview?
01:34:41GULAR: Ah, the I Am Not Invisible program, yeah, I was stepped out of my box even doing that, in fact my husband was away on a trip and I just messaged him, I'm like I did something totally out of box just so you know and I said I'll fill you when you get home and that was the I Am not Invisible project and having my photograph done and being part of that and then with that they introduced this. And, like, ah, that's really, really cool. Well, I'll sign up for that. Don't know what it's all about, but I will do it and see where it goes. And then as I'm telling my husband and my kids, they are just so excited about it, so. And I am too. I am, too, because like I said, I kind of stayed in the shadows before, but I think that stories need to be told. And, um, especially as a woman, I think it's kind of cool to be able to tell that story as well.
01:35:33BONANO: Definitely. So, we're almost done. So, this is my part where I asked, did we miss anything you'd like to cover? Are there any stories that didn't fit in the timeline that you want to tell or anything at all?
01:35:47GULAR: [Sigh] I think so. I think, you know, we covered some of the things that happen, you know, when you jump, and some of instances that I -- happened to me. And, like I said, no matter how hard you train, the things you try and do right, things are always going to happen. During our time in the military, during my time, and during the time with my husband, we have lost some wonderful friends. And some of those times have been during training. So, it's not always about war, where we lose them, our going to war, going to deployments or anything like that. A lot of times it is during our training. And so, I look back at, especially our jumping, and we jumped quite often and so many things could have happened. And I will say that is one thing that my husband and I always tried to do was be on separate jumps. We tried not to jump together. The only time that we jumped together, it was his last jump in the 82nd Airborne because he was getting ready to go to training and then from training he was going to be sent to Hawaii and I was still in and at that point I was a jumpmaster. So, I got to be his jumpmaster on his very last jump out of the 82nd Airborne.
01:37:03BONANO: Wow.
01:37:05GULAR: And as a jumpmaster, everybody gets a sticker on their helm and it tells them what number they are in to jump and If we know somebody it's specialist their birthday or it's their last jump or whatever we make we give them door position So, it's an honor and it's excitement to have door position being that first one out. So, I got to give him door position. So, he was my number one jumper. So, as I was giving commands in the aircraft or, like, he was always -- he was right there as I'm giving the commands on the aircraft and so that was different looking at my husband along with the rest of the guys and giving the commands in the aircraft and then telling him to stand in the door. And when you're a jumper, you go out on the jumpmaster's tap because it's so loud in there too. You say go, but it's all out in there. So, yeah, he just went out on my tap and that was his last jump in the 82nd. And as a jumpmaster, then I follow. Everybody out and I'm the last one. So, yeah, that was the only jump that we were together on and it was his last jump and I was his jumpmaster. So, that is one story that we -- we love to tell. It's, it's it was kind of cool to have that that time with him.
01:38:23BONANO: That's really special.
01:38:24GULAR: Yeah.
01:38:24BONANO: I wanted to ask about the objects you brought --
01:38:27GULAR: Okay.
01:38:27BONANO: because we should get them on camera now, if want to show them.
01:38:29GULAR: Okay. Yeah,
01:38:30GULAR: Go ahead. Yeah, so this is my jumpmaster knife. So, my husband gifted this to me when I graduated from jumpmaster school. Every jumpmaster must have this strapped to their boot, to the outside of their boot. And the reason for this is because, I guess that we train a lot, but things happen. And being a towed jumper is one of those things. As a jumpmaster, the last thing you do before you exit the aircraft is to make sure that there's no towed jumpers and if there are the option is to cut them free or to bring them in and if somebody is unconscious we do everything we can obviously to bring them in without incident and between you the safety and everybody you're pulling them in and getting them into safety but if they are conscious then you use hand motions and tell them. We're going to cut you free, so they know, because they have to pull their reserve. So, at that point, that's when we use our jumpmaster knife and then we cut them free so they can fall free from the aircraft and pull their reserved and land safely to the ground. So, this is my jumpmaster knife and thank God I've never had to use it, not for that. But that was a gift from my husband when I graduated from jumpmaster school. So, it's something that I have kept all these years. And then I've got several pictures here of me doing what we call JMPI, jumpmaster pre-inspection. So, inspecting a jumper's gear.
01:40:09BONANO: Which one is you?
01:40:10GULAR: I am here.
01:40:11BONANO: The very blonde one.
01:40:12GULAR: The very blond. Yeah. We're in North Carolina, so very hot. So, we're able to strip off our, or at least our jacket, our shirt while we're doing JMPIs. And that's just showing the different inspections right now, inspecting the reserve, and then...
01:40:32BONANO: That you're a high and tight haircut.
01:40:34GULAR: Yeah, that was part of it. Yeah that was part of it that actually was some growing out so yeah but it was very short back then. After I had that I definitely kept it short after that it was so much easier as -- as a female to have short hair so I get what the guys are always high and tight. But, ah, again just inspecting every aspect of their gear making sure everything is correct. Um, no sharp things that could cut their line. And you go from top to bottom, again, everything in the military has a purpose, has a sequence. And that's what I love about the JMPI, it's you don't miss any spot on their body, on their gear. And it's all about the soldier, the jumper to make sure that they are 100 percent safe and things are gonna operate as they should. So, and this guy was generous enough to pose for this. So, the guy that took these pictures, it's very uncommon to have these pictures. I'm really thankful because we didn't really, well we didn't have cameras -- cell phones back there, but we really were not able to carry a camera. They did not want us taking cameras, ah, pictures about anything that we did. Everything was pretty close hold. But this gentleman was getting ready to get out and he was going for journalism. So, before he got out, he asked if he could do some photographs, do an article, and it was his way of, that article was his kind of like first step in his journalism and stuff. So, it actually worked out for me as well. But yeah, just inspecting, like the rucksack. So, this particular jump was what we call a combat jump. So, as you can see, he's got the ruck sack. When I talk about having an additional 80 pounds on us. That kind of shows how much weight we actually have between the rucksack, the chute, the reserve and our weapon and things like that. So, yeah just getting in there and just inspecting every bit of it. There was one incidence where I was a jumpmaster for a unit down the street and it was all men unit and jumpmasters got together. Hey jumpmasters come together. The guys started lining up. They all line up behind the jumpmasters to inspect them and the main jumpmaster said hey jumpmasters I got a question I want to get you all together so we turned around they set it up so every guy got in my line. When I turned around every jumper was in my line and they all laughed and they went back to their thing but they set up as a joke to get into my line because they weren't used to having females in the --as jumpmasters in their unit, so. And this is me before being a jumpmaster. I was probably very young, maybe a PFC, a private first class. I was, probably in my earlier years, just jumping with some friends. It's a normal, normal jump. And that's at jump school.
01:43:31BONANO: Wow.
01:43:33GULAR: So, they did do some pictures there at jump school and again this is just us walking to the bird. Um, and then I did have a camera with me once. I don't know if you can see that, but I would try and snap some pictures before we land.
01:43:48BONANO: Yeah.
01:43:49GULAR: Yeah, just showing all the shoots in the air and stuff.
01:43:51BONANO: Awesome.
01:43:52GULAR: So, a lot of times mass tacs [mass tactical] type jumps where you have birds behind you. So, you jump, there's a bird behind you, they're dropping soldiers. So, the whole sky is just full of paratroopers and it's just one of the coolest things to see. So --
01:44:09BONANO: Anything else you wanted to show?
01:44:10GULAR: Any what?
01:44:11BONANO: Anything else you wanted to show?
01:44:12GULAR: Um, I don't think so, no. That's just the article. I kept that. The rest of them are just a few pictures of me and maybe from AIT, like advanced training, when I was just posing with some friends. [laugh] Back then, we just didn't take a whole lot of pictures. Not like now. Now everything is out there. But, it was just a wonderful time to serve. I have some great memories, have some pictures to show for it, and some memorabilia. And, I think one of the greatest things was, like I said, meeting my husband and being able to serve alongside him, and for at least those five years, and jumping, serving as his jumpmaster in his last jump, and then continuing to support him through his career. And, because I was military, I could understand some of the things he was going through, and I think it helped us in our marriage as well.
01:45:11BONANO: Mm-hmm.
01:45:12GULAR: When he would have to go off to training or do whatever, it's like, I get it. And I think that has definitely helped us throughout our marriage.
01:45:23BONANO: So, any last thoughts that you wanted to give before we're done?
01:45:28GULAR: I don't think so. Thank you so much for doing this. I think this is just a neat opportunity.
01:45:33BONANO: Thank you, so much. So, this concludes the interview.
01:45:35GULAR: Okay.
01:45:35BONANO: Thank you Jamie.
01:45:36GULAR: Thank you.
