00:00:00BONANO: So today is Tuesday, May 19th, 2026. This is an interview with Rachelle Witherow, who served in the United States Army from October 2012, to December 2020. This interview is being conducted by Kristin Bonano on Zoom for the Wisconsin Veterans Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the interview room. So tell me, Rachelle, where did you grow up?
00:00:29WITHEROW: I grew up in Northwest Washington State. Snohomish was the name of the town. So anybody that's watched Firefly Lane has probably heard of the little town that I grew up in. So yeah.
00:00:44BONANO: Cool. And when did you end up moving to Wisconsin?
00:00:47WITHEROW: We moved to Wisconsin in February of 2010.
00:00:50BONANO: Oh, okay. Sounds good. So what did your family do when you were growing up?
00:00:56WITHEROW: My dad worked for the water district and my mom had an in-home daycare.
00:01:03BONANO: Okay, and where did you go to school?
00:01:06WITHEROW: I went to Snohomish High School and then obviously the elementary and middle school that was there.
00:01:14BONANO: What initially made you want to join the military?
00:01:17WITHEROW: I was actually in the JROTC program at Snohomish High School, and that was where the interest for joining the military was kind of peaked. My mom kind of talked me out of it, though, when I was in high school, so when I was 29, my husband was already in. My husband actually joined when he was 17. Um, so my husband was in and when I was 29, it was kind of one of those it's now or never kind of a thing and it was, kind of, we talked about it for a couple of weeks and it was, uh, we need, I need to do this because it's something that's been on my heart and a passion that I had wanted to commit to, I guess you could say, for the majority of my adult life, so.
00:02:04BONANO: Oh, okay. Um, really quick before we move on, what was the name of your high school and how do you spell it?
00:02:10WITHEROW: It's Snohomish High School and that's S-N-O-H-O M-I-S-H.
00:02:19BONANO: Okay, Snohomish High School. Okay, so you were in the JROTC then, so you had an interest in the military while you were high school.
00:02:25WITHEROW: Correct.
00:02:26BONANO: So you just said your mom wasn't too happy about you being interested in the military?
00:02:32WITHEROW: No, she didn't really want me to join. They were kind of raised as the Vietnam War was ending, so it was kind of not something that they wanted me to, I guess, go through, just because of the way that, obviously, our Veterans at that time were treated.
00:02:49BONANO: Right, so did any other family members have an opinion on you joining the military?
00:02:54WITHEROW: My aunt was very excited for me because it was something she wanted to do, but she couldn't because she had young children at the age of 16, so--
00:03:04BONANO: Okay, did you have any family or relatives that served in the military?
00:03:09WITHEROW: Yum, my dad's oldest brother served in Vietnam, and then my mom's dad served in the Korean War and so did my dad's dad.
00:03:23BONANO: Okay. Do you think that impacted you wanting to join at all when you were growing up?
00:03:29WITHEROW: I don't think so because it wasn't really anything that was talked about. So I really think that JROTC was the main reason why. So.
00:03:37BONANO: Okay. Do you remember what year you graduated high school?
00:03:42WITHEROW: 2001.
00:03:43BONANO: 2001. Okay, so when did you meet your husband?
00:03:48WITHEROW: I met my husband in 1998.
00:03:51BONANO: Oh, okay. So was him being in the military a big impact on you wanted to join later?
00:03:59WITHEROW: I think, eventually, yes, because I was kind of vicariously living through his career for a really long time. So yeah. [Laugh}
00:04:08BONANO: Okay, so tell me what it was like being with someone who was in the military. Did you move around with him a lot and things like that?
00:04:15WITHEROW: So we've moved twice, we lived in Montana for a couple of years and then we moved out to Fort McCoy here in Wisconsin for his career. I guess as far as that side of it went, like being a military wife it was a lot of just juggling everything with kids, because we have three kids together and just doing a lot of it kind of on your own and figuring things out, but at the same token he kinda had to do the same now that I joined. So we have a better understanding for each other, I guess, at this point.
00:04:54BONANO: Yeah, um, so you mentioned in our phone call that you joined in October 2012, and then you started basic training in January 2013. Uh, what were you doing for those three months leading up?
00:05:06WITHEROW: I was working for the Monroe County Sheriff's Office as an administrative assistant.
00:05:11BONANO: Oh, okay. So you were just working until it was time to go to basic training.
00:05:13WITHEROW: Correct.
00:05:15BONANO: Okay. So basic training, you did your basic training at a Fort Jackson, South Carolina. I have it down as you started in January 2nd, and then you finished up March 13th, 2013. Tell me what do you remember about your arrival to basic training?
00:05:34WITHEROW: So being the age that I was coming in, it was like automatic ending up as a mom kind of a thing. There was a lot of kids that were close to my oldest age. So it was that protector factor, I guess, kind of went into effect. But at the same time, it's like I had to take care of myself and figure things out that were all new to me too. So it a whole new experience and-- Um, I -- I don't know, like there's, it was a challenge, like going that long, kind of having my own independence and being able to do my own thing, make my own decisions, and then to go to basic training and kind of have somebody kind of take all those privileges away from me. And then also being a mom, like not being able to talk to my kids or anything like that for those few months. Um, it was definitely, I mean there was the good times but then there was the challenges of just like the mental and I know part of that is they do that to kind of get you outside that shell so that you get into that that state of mind where you're focused on the mission but it was definitely a challenge getting into that frame of mind so.
00:07:01BONANO: Okay, before I get further into basic training, I wanted to, I guess, kind of ask again, why did you finally decide that's it, I'm going I'm joining the Army?
00:07:12WITHEROW: I really like -- It was something I wanted to do since I was 16. And it was like one of those things where it was like I was done with people telling me like, no, like you shouldn't. And you know, I had my first son, I was 20 when I had him, so I was younger. And then it was, like, everybody was like, well, you're gonna be leaving your kids behind. You're gonna to be doing this, you're going to be that. And it like, no, I like, this is something that I want. And like I feel like It's a calling for me and by doing this, I'm showing my kids that when you're supposed to do something, you go for it and you fight for it regardless of what everybody else is telling you to do.
00:07:57BONANO: Alright. And how did your husband feel about you wanting to go?
00:08:02WITHEROW: I think he was actually kind of excited for me because I finally took the stand to do it. He knew all along that it was something I wanted to do. So it was -- when I finally made the decision, he was like, finally, like, he knew I had to make that choice on my own though, so.
00:08:19BONANO: Right. So you joined basically, as a mom, a little older than everybody else. Um, so there were, would you say there was a lot of young people at basic training with you?
00:08:32WITHEROW: Oh, yeah. Everyone's 18, 19, 20. [Laugh]
00:08:33BONANO: Right. How did you get there from Wisconsin to South Carolina?
00:08:40WITHEROW: We flew.
00:08:41BONANO: You flew. Okay. Um, so what were some of the experiences that you remember from basic training?
00:08:47WITHEROW: Um, well, I remember getting in trouble because I was trying to help somebody put their weapon back together. It was like one of the first days that we had taken our weapons apart and we're putting them back together. And I was fighting back tears because I was angry and my drill sergeant thought I was rolling my eyes at him and I got in trouble and I like threatened with like an Article 13 and everything else like it was just like ridiculous. Like, you know, like I said, it was putting you into that state of mind that like mission first and like you have to be where you're supposed to be when you're suppose to be there, like looking back at it. But I ended up having to write this really long, like I think it was like 500-word essay about respecting your NCO. And I actually had, I think they went and looked up my military record at that point and they realized that I was married to a non-commissioned officer at that point. And there was one drill sergeant when I was there. The whole rest of the time, so the next three months, basically, any chance she got, she would make a point to be like, you're not married to him while you're here. He can't protect you. Just because you're married to a non-commissioned officer. And it was just one of those things that it was like, I'm not trying to use my husband's rank. I was so trying to be quiet about it, and I'm trying to say that I'm married to anybody in the Army. You know, some of the kids were trying to use like, my grandpa was a Sergeant Major in the Army. And I was like, I had been told like, do not tell anybody that you're like married to anybody in the Army. But I had one drill sergeant that his wife actually was finishing up basic training as we got there. So he understood kind of where I was coming from on there an -- um, that was probably one of the best drill sergeants we had because she was gone, he would actually come in on the weekends and like help us put together like our dress uniform for graduation, uh, help us with anything that we were like kind of lacking on, not really lacking, but you know, needed that little bit of extra help just to kind of be more successful. Um, and that drill sergeant like to this day, like is still one that, like, I guess made that big of an imprint that like every once in a while it's like the thought like, you know, I wonder what happened to Drill Sergeant Harris and if he's still even in the Army at this point kind of a thing. Um, and then there was the -- the other drill sergeants the one that like I ended up like getting in trouble with for rolling my eyes which I was totally not, I was trying to fight back tears but he ended up being one of my favorites like towards the end. Like I was really struggling with the whole grenade thing. Like that's scary there's a live grenade like going to be in my hand and going to be throwing that. And he's the one that got me with the -- the mock ones to be able to throw it far enough and like you know keep me calm during all of that and like he pulled me over aside with his like section when we got to that point to make sure that like I had that confidence when we got to there. So, um, and those are the kind of leaders, I guess that like they stick with you, so--
00:12:05BONANO: Uh, fair enough. And what were their names?
00:12:10WITHEROW: So Drill Sergeant Harris was the one that was in my platoon that was probably like the best one that we had. He was like the continuity for our platoon really. And Drill Sergeant Fortner was the ones that I got in trouble with at the beginning and then ended up probably being my favorite. He was a different platoon but he was like one of those ones that he cared. So.
00:12:32BONANO: Mm-hmm. And how do you spell Fortner?
00:12:34WITHEROW: F-O-R-T-N-E-R.
00:12:37BONANO: Got it. Yah, so would you say, because you were in JROTC and your husband was in the military, were you well prepared for basic training or was it a big adjustment?
00:12:50WITHEROW: I mean, I think I was more prepared in some ways, but like when I went to basic, it was different than when my husband went. I mean a lot of things had changed in that, I think he went like 12 or 13 years before I went. So there was a lot of difference as far as the structure and everything went, so. So some of it I was, but there was, you know, I think even it all depends even what battalion you end up in, like as far as basic training goes, so.
00:13:27BONANO: Right. So what ideas did you have about your military career at this time? Like, did you have a specific MOS in mind you were thinking of?
00:13:35WITHEROW: Uh, when I joined, so the Army, when you join, you get your MOS, um, when you go down to MEPS. So I went in as an ammunition specialist is what my MOS was going to be. Um, it wasn't what I originally had wanted, but, um. It was kind of at the needs of the Army. So, and because I was married and I had kids, I was required to be within 50 miles of my house. It was a requirement that the Army had for being a reservist. So I was kind of stuck with Fort McCoy and what was available there, so.
00:14:10BONANO: That makes sense. What MOS did you want?
00:14:13WITHEROW: I really wanted to either do supply um, or there was actually at one point there was the -- they had the like railroad engineers here at Fort McCoy and I was trying to get that, but that slot ended up going before I made it down to MEPS. So that was the one I really wanted.
00:14:33BONANO: Oh. Okay. Anything else you remember from basic training, people that stick out to you other than your two drill sergeants? Um
00:14:42WITHEROW: Um, I mean, there's a couple of like the girls, I remember calling home and thanking my husband for all boys, because I have all sons. It's hard living with girls. I really like those drill sergeants and it was hard to connect with a lot of them just because of the age difference. So like, we were able to accomplish the mission, but there wasn't, you know, like the commonalities weren't completely there outside of what we were doing. So.
00:15:22BONANO: Um, was that tough for you at all? Not being able to connect or were you just like, it's just basic training.
00:15:28WITHEROW: I basically went into that mode. It's like, we just gotta get through those three months.
00:15:34BONANO: Yeah, make sense. What's your family there for your graduation?
00:15:38WITHEROW: My husband was.
00:15:40BONANO: Okay. Awesome So, I have down that after basic training, you went and did AIT (Advanced Individual Training) at Fort Lee, Virginia. So that was immediately after. So like March 14-15 to May 2013. How did you get from South Carolina to Virginia?
00:15:58WITHEROW: My husband drove me.
00:16:00BONANO: Oh, okay. And you got trained in as an ammunition specialist and you already mentioned that you were kind of given that because of the needs of the Army. So um, what were the classes like?
00:16:15WITHEROW: They were actually kind of fun. I really enjoyed, like in the beginning, we got to really go in deep with a bunch of different types of ordnance. So like our big test was having to know how, like we had to memorize forty-three different pieces of ammunition and like we got to touch them and like actually like see them up close and everything, so that was kind of cool. And then, so because like I went in as a specialist because I had my bachelor's degree when I went in so I got put in as the, like the class leader for that. So on top of doing class, I was also kind of put in charge of kids. And again, given the nickname of mom, which seemed to stick with me throughout my career. But I don't know. So like once we left the classroom, we ended up moving out to like the ammunition area where we like learned how to use like the forklifts. And we actually got to sling load, Which, that is probably my favorite part of the MOS, is sling loading, like there's like something about being under a helicopter and putting your life in the hands of a pilot coming down like within inches of your head, like while you're like hooking up a pallet and um, I don't know, so, but it was, I mean it was two months of just basically playing the game and just going to school is really what it was, so-- Our weekends consisted, like we had weekends off, but we were stuck at the barracks. I did get the opportunity to go to Washington DC on one of the Saturdays, which was a pretty cool experience. We got to go Arlington National Cemetery and the Holocaust Museum. So that was really cool and something I probably wouldn't have been able to do if I hadn't gone to AIT there. But yeah, I was, I don't know, I just kind of go with the flow kind of a thing I guess. It was cool at graduation. One of my, like I grew up, her daughter was in my mom's daycare and she was in the Navy at Norfolk. Um, so she actually came to my graduation at AIT. So that was kind of cool, like getting to connect with her. Like I always called her my older sister growing up. And so that was a pretty cool connection to like, officially, cause it's like AIT is that last, like right of passage into the Army. Like you are officially a soldier at that point. And to be able to have her there for that, and like one military member to another was, was pretty cool. So, um, but yeah.
00:19:19BONANO: Awesome. Um, so a couple of things, I was interested that you mentioned that you were called Mom in the Army. Was this because you were older, or did you kind of start to feel like you had to act motherly to people, or take people under your wing? What was that about, you think?
00:19:35WITHEROW: I think it's an automatic, like, trying to make sure people are taking care of, um, like even if it's just simple things, like making sure that they know, like what they're supposed to be doing, where they're suppose to be, um not really like in like a bossy way but just, you know, like, so they don't get in trouble kind of a thing, so. Um, so I think it was a mixture of my age and then also having kids so they knew I was already a mom, um, and then just that whole having that mentality of like, let's not get in trouble and let's just do the best we can to just get through this kind of a thing.
00:20:18BONANO: Um, you also mentioned that you thought sling loading was cool. Can you explain that a little bit more in detail what sling loading is?
00:20:26WITHEROW: Okay, so with ammunition, I mean, that's the way I did it there. They do it for a lot of others like with supplies and stuff like that, too. But the ammunition goes on a pallet and so we would have the pallets out on the landing zone and the helicopter will like come down and the pallet has like the ropes that come up and around it and you have to like literally take it and like hook it onto the bottom of the helicopter. So, and like, it's like a matter of like, you have to work with the pilot and it's not, there is no like actually talking to them. Like you are literally like, just like working with them, like, in sync kind of a thing. So, um, I don't know. We did it obviously a couple of times there. We got to do it. Um, and then I got to it a couple times here at Fort McCoy too, cause we have a reclass here, uh, for ammunition here at Fort McCoy. So I got pop in a couple a times and do it with them also. Um. But it's, I dunno, it's hard to like, completely explained. But yeah, basically the pallet is like all wrapped up and then it's like just getting that hook up onto the helicopter. So yeah.
00:21:57BONANO: And the helicopter would land like right above your head.
00:21:59WITHEROW: It's like literally like I remember one time like actually kind of feeling on my Kevlar like it was like okay this is like almost too close for comfort so. [Laugh]
00:22:10BONANO: Did you ever talk to the helicopter pilots about how about doing that job?
00:22:17WITHEROW: Not really, um, yeah.
00:22:19BONANO: Yeah because I'm interested in what they thought about landing close to people's heads.
00:22:24WITHEROW: Right. I mean, I'm sure they have to go through a lot of training before they get to even get to that point.
00:22:31BONANO: Right.
00:22:32WITHEROW: So, um, they probably have a lot more than we did before we had that opportunity.
00:22:39BONANO: Uh, so I guess speaking of, of training, uh, what was the discipline like at -- at -- at AIT, like compared to basic training?
00:22:47WITHEROW: Yeah We went literally from having so much discipline to it seemed like it all went out the window when we got there. I think there's a reason why they're trying to get Drill Sergeant back into the AIT at this point. People are getting in trouble for the silliest stuff there and I think that's why I just tried to keep my head down low and stay out of all the drama and everything that was there because it was like, why? Like we're literally, we're here for two months, like. Um, so yeah, it was, it was crazy what some of the people were getting in trouble for. So.
00:23:27BONANO: What kind of trouble did people get into in a IT?
00:23:30WITHEROW: Some of them were like sneaking out, like after hours, um, the ones that ended up getting like off, like, uh, post passes, like they would get caught with alcohol, like that kind of thing. Um, out in the wood line doing stuff they shouldn't have been doing. Like it was just silly stuff.
00:23:51BONANO: Right. Any other special experiences you remember from AIT or people that stick out to you?
00:23:59WITHEROW: Um, not really.
00:24:04BONANO: Okay. So you completed AIT. You're an ammunition specialist now and you joined the 86th Training Division in Fort McCoy from May, 2013 to October, 2013. So I'm assuming you just went and you join your family. Is that correct? So what was a typical day like working at Fort McCoy?
00:24:24WITHEROW: So I was a reservist, so that was just weekend duties with the 86th. So I went back to my job at the Monroe County Sheriff's Office as a civilian and then did the weekends and then AT with the 86th. So I don't know, drills were interesting. It was a one-star command and I was a little E-4, um, I was, the, I think the next rank in my section was an E-6, so that was like two levels ahead of me. Um, but it was, I had a really good OIC, like during our annual training. So the 86's mission is over the summer, they do the CSTX (Combat Support Training Exercise). So it's like the big exercises for the reserves so that they can go get their combat training. Um, so they kind of facilitate those trainings. So for my AT, I was basically in the building that kind of oversaw everything, but I had a cool OIC that she knew like, all of those skills were new, and she kind of challenged me, like with my land nav skills and that kind of stuff and she had me like plot out. So we had. Like the big HEMTT (Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck) trucks. So they're like some of the bigger Army trucks that were coming in for training. And we needed to set up convoy routes for them, but we needed to make sure, I'm sorry, Fort McCoy's got a helicopter going. [Laugh] I'm so sorry. We're right on the flight path, so I can't control that.
00:26:19BONANO: That's okay.
00:26:22WITHEROW: Anyways, so we have these HEMTTs coming in and so we had to do convoys. But we needed to make sure they had places to turn around. So she had me plot out like areas that looked like they were big enough and like so then we had like the whole convoy set up. And then we got to go out on these routes and like drive around and see if like they would actually be big enough So it was kind of cool like to get out on Fort McCoy and actually see like. Most people see Fort McCoy as like just what's in the gates and Fort McCoy is not that's what's in the gates. Like there's so much training area in Fort McCoy. So to be able to get out there and actually see what Fort McCoy had to offer as far as that training area. So that was kind of a cool experience like that she kind of challenged me to use those skills that were learned in basic training so that they didn't perish. So. But I wasn't, I did AT with them and then I got pulled on an ADOS (Active Duty for Operational Support) tour. So I wasn't with them for very long.
00:27:30BONANO: So okay. Yeah, um a couple of things. You said you did AT. Can you explain what that is?
00:27:38WITHEROW: So that's our annual training. So the -- the reserves likes to say the one weekend a month, two weeks a year, which is a lie. [Laugh] It's never just that much, it seems like. But so that is like our mandatory like two weeks out of the year that we have like active duty time that we do every year. So for us, it was running that mission.
00:28:07BONANO: Okay, um and working conditions, what was it like working at Fort McCoy?
00:28:16WITHEROW: I mean, it's not a bad place to work when you're with a one-star command because you're in an air-conditioned building, and yeah, so.
00:28:32BONANO: Okay. Any special people you remember from this time at Fort McCoy?
00:28:40WITHEROW: So we had Lieutenant Colonel King, and that was my OIC. So she was the one that kind of challenged me in a lot of different ways. And then I had Sergeant First Class. Well, she was Sullivan, then she's Blackman now. Um, she was kind of a mentor during that time that I was there. And then Master Sergeant Lawrence was another one that was a good mentor while I was there.
00:29:14BONANO: Okay, any experiences you remember from this time period?
00:29:21WITHEROW: Um, I got a GSA stuck in the mud during that AT, um.
00:29:29BONANO: What's a GSA?
00:29:31WITHEROW: A GSA is, it's like the contract vehicles that the Army uses. So they're like the civilian type vehicles. So, but yeah.
00:29:42BONANO: So what happened?
00:29:43WITHEROW: I was trying to turn around in one of the areas that we were looking at for the HEMTTs. So it was probably a good thing I did because the HEMTTs would have gotten a lot more stuck than I did. But yeah, we had to kind of maneuver it back and forth to get it out of this. Like it was like. Sandy, really sandy area. It had rained that night before. But yeah, the guy that I was with didn't have a license and looked at me and was like, I don't know what you want me to do about it. I was like, thanks.
00:30:19BONANO: Um, yeah, so you mentioned that the 86th Training Division was kind of tasked with training other units for combat training. Were you involved in those types of lessons? Like, were you teaching people?
00:30:35WITHEROW: No, we just basically oversaw the facilitating. So making sure that like the porta potties were taken care of. If they had any issues with like the ranges or like where they were set up to stay. Cause like they had like tents set up in different areas. So basically their training areas were like the way they needed to be, so.
00:30:57BONANO: Okay. So after this time with the 86th Training Division, in October 2013, you moved to the 86th Regional Support Command.
00:31:08WITHEROW: The 88th.
00:31:09BONANO: Thank you for that. 88th Regional Support Command and you were there for a little while until May 2015, correct?
00:31:17WITHEROW: Correct.
00:31:18BONANO: You were with this group, I mean. So how was that different? What were you doing that was different?
00:31:24WITHEROW: So I went over there on active duty for the first six months. So from October to April, I was there for the Yellow Ribbon Program. So I was the soldier that was like facilitated all of the registration for that program. And the Yellow Ribbon Program is before and after deployment. The Reserves and the National Guard do these programs to help with like preparing soldiers and their family members for deployment and then kind of reintegrating the soldiers and family members when they return from deployment.
00:32:06BONANO: So, okay. Yeah, this was your active-duty operational support tour the ADOS tour?
00:32:11WITHEROW: Yes.
00:32:12BONANO: Oh, okay. So you did that, did you do that at Fort McCoy or did you go somewhere else?
00:32:20WITHEROW: It was at Fort McCoy.
00:32:22BONANO: At Fort McCoy, okay. So tell me about doing that for six months.
00:32:27WITHEROW: It was interesting. We got to travel a little bit. So most of it was just like Minneapolis and Chicago area, but we did get to go to Denver a couple of times, which was kind of cool. I'd never been there before. It was, I don't like for me, admin stuff has been something that had been what I had been doing on the civilian side for a really long time. I mean, I was doing it at the sheriff's office before. So um, it really wasn't much different. I guess the only difference was I was wearing my uniform all of the time. Um, and rank kind of does matter to some people. So I guess that was the biggest challenge was getting people to understand that like, even though I was just an E-4, like this was what I was in charge of. So, um, I had a couple of officers that were like in charge though that really like stepped up and like they made sure people knew that even though like she is only an E-4 like she is the one that's in charge because this is like our program, not your program. So that was helpful. So.
00:33:38BONANO: That's good. And you mentioned that the Yellow Ribbon Program was, so you were tasked with supporting people who are going to deploy overseas?
00:33:47WITHEROW: Yes.
00:33:48BONANO: So going to or coming back. Oh, okay. And what does support mean? What does that look like?
00:33:55WITHEROW: So they have like, when they're getting ready to go, they have classes and stuff that they take before, kind of going over their benefits that they'll have while they're over there. Some of the classes are for the family members so that they can better understand what their soldier may be going through while they are over there and vice versa. There may be, there's classes for the soldiers to kind of better understand what their family members may be experiencing in their absence, that kind of a thing. And then coming back, it's kind of the same thing, like a lot of those kinds of classes, but then they also go over like education benefits that like people get after they have done that kind of active duty time and like what benefits are available to them. And then like the SGLI and like all of that kind stuff too, so.
00:34:48BONANO: Okay, um, I have down that you got promoted in April 2015. What did you get promoted to?
00:34:55WITHEROW: To sergeant.
00:34:57BONANO: Up to sergeant. Okay, what was that like?
00:34:59WITHEROW: That was actually a kind of cool experience. I had a first sergeant at the time that actually took the time and the effort to like make it a good experience. Like I know other soldiers that that was just like another, like I just put my rank on and went to drill the next month where he like actually had a plaque made up for me with like the NCO Creed on it. Um, like it was like an induction ceremony kind of thing into the, the NCO. So it was, it was kind of cool. So.
00:35:38BONANO: And who was it that put the -- give you a plaque and all that kind of stuff?
00:35:40WITHEROW: Ah, First Sergeant Arne.
00:35:42BONANO: How is Arne spelled?
00:35:43WITHEROW: A-R-N-E.
00:35:44BONANO: A-R-N-E, okay. got it. Um okay and I also have down between April and May 2015 so right after you were promoted to sergeant, uh, you finished school to become a supply specialist you mentioned earlier that you wanted to do that initially. Um so what was that like how are you able to get that going?
00:36:07WITHEROW: So my first sergeant that also did all that, he was also ammunition and he knew that I was going to hit like a wall as far as being able to advance my career and so he worked really hard to get me into another MOS. It just happened that I got promoted like in the process but he still made sure that I got to go to the school. So, supply was something that very much -- like moves over into the civilian world because it's logistics So he like the original school that I was supposed to go to like they canceled the school. He worked with like the Washington National Guard and got me into a school out in Yakima, Washington. So the middle of nowhere. And so I went out there and I spent a month out there, and got reclassed so, yeah.
00:37:04BONANO: Okay. So what were classes like for a supply specialist?
00:37:08WITHEROW: They were pretty simple. I mean, I had been doing a lot of it kind of on the backside at the 88th after I came off of ADOS. That was kind of the slot that I got slid into. And I was actually, my husband and I were working together at that point because he was the supply sergeant for the 88th. So I was kind learning from him. Like how to do a lot of that and a lot of the forms and everything. So going in there, it was really just like learning the little stuff that maybe we don't do on a day-to-day operation, so.
00:37:45BONANO: Okay, and where was school?
00:37:47WITHEROW: Yakima, Washington.
00:37:50BONANO: Okay, and so that took about a month?
00:37:55WITHEROW: Yes.
00:37:56BONANO: And then you returned back to Fort McCoy?
00:37:58WITHEROW: I came back to Fort McCoy but my new unit was in Appleton.
00:38:03BONANO: Right, so that's a good transition. I was about to go there in a second. Oh, before I get there, you mentioned your Arne who really supported you. Any other special people that stick out to you from this time period?
00:38:19WITHEROW: Um, I mean. Not really think that was like the big one.
00:38:27BONANO: Okay, and besides everything I mentioned and brought up, any other experiences that you remember from this time period?
00:38:46WITHEROW: Um. No, I mean, we had a fun AT like that summer. Was that April of, so it would have been like June of 2014. Where we got to go to do a bunch of fun things like the, they have a, over at Camp Douglas, they have an LRC obstacle course, team building kind of thing. So we all got to do that and land nav, which was fun to actually get out and do that wasn't basic training related. And then the gas chamber, not doing that at basic training. So that was kind of interesting. But yeah, I don't know. I guess like that annual training was like almost better than the one at the 86th, just because I actually got to do soldier things instead of like trying to take care of other people, I guess. So like it was more learning, I guess involved, so.
00:39:58BONANO: Okay, so after you finish school again and you're officially a supply specialist, was that your main MOS at that point? You were not a ammunition specialist?
00:40:12WITHEROW: So I was required for a year because I was promoted as an ammunition specialist to stay as a primary ammunition specialist. So I -- my secondary at that time.
00:40:23BONANO: Okay, interesting. So after this, you moved to the 395th Ordnance Company in Appleton, Wisconsin. You were there from May, 2015 to December, 2017. So, so. What was the question I was gonna ask? Did your family move at all or were you able to just like stay in Appleton and--?
00:40:48WITHEROW: Oh, it was just for drill. So we stayed down at Fort McCoy, so.
00:40:52BONANO: Okay. How far is that travel from Fort McCoy to Appleton?
00:40:57WITHEROW: It's about three hours.
00:40:59BONANO: Three hours? Was that, was that painful for you or -- or you got used to it?
00:41:03WITHEROW: Um they were down here a lot at Fort McCoy for training so like for the ranges and stuff so I would just meet them down at Fort McCoy which made it kind of nice so it was only like every couple of months I'd have to go up there. So.
00:41:19BONANO: Okay, it wasn't too bad. So I have a few things happen during this time period. So in October 2016 you get deployed to Afghanistan. So tell me about learning that you were going to go to Afghanistan?
00:41:38WITHEROW: So we were at Fort Dix in February of 2016 and we had a soldier that did not want to go. Was trying anything that they could to get out of going. And we also had two female junior enlisted that were supposed to be going on the deployment. And there was no female NCOs that were suppose to be going. So it was kind of one of those. We talked about it while we were there. They kind of had me call my husband while I was there and be like, are you good with this? And it was kind of decided while it was there that I would be the one to go so that we had another female there in case anything did happen and that these females weren't by themselves, so.
00:42:29BONANO: Okay, um, so what was it like hearing you're gonna go to Afghanistan?
00:42:35WITHEROW: Kind of surreal at first. I don't think it really set in until I got down to Fort Hood in October of 2016. So, yeah.
00:42:53BONANO: So you went to Fort Hood first before you went to Afghanistan?
00:42:56WITHEROW: Correct.
00:42:57BONANO: Okay, so you went to Fort Hood and how did you get to Afghanistan after that?
00:43:03WITHEROW: Yeah, so we got to Afghanistan in November. So we were down at Fort Hood for about a month because we had to do all of our qualifying, like you have to do your like web and call. And then you also had to qualify for your, like your mission that you were doing over there. You had to that. And go through medical and finance and all of that before you could actually go overseas.
00:43:28BONANO: Do you know what the mission was, what the reason was given for your unit deploying to Afghanistan?
00:43:34WITHEROW: So we were ammunition clearers, so basically our mission was whenever vehicles were coming in and they were either being turned in or they were going to be coming back to the states, our job was to basically clean them with a very fine-tooth comb and make sure that there was no ordinance on them. For safety purposes, obviously. So that was our main mission while we were over there. So.
00:44:09BONANO: Okay. You flew to Afghanistan?
00:44:13WITHEROW: Yes.
00:44:14BONANO: Did you fly straight into Afghanistan or did you go somewhere else and then move in?
00:44:20WITHEROW: No, we flew to Kuwait because that's entry. And then we flew from there to Afghanistan.
00:44:26BONANO: Okay, so I have down that you went to Bagram Air Base and Kandahar Air Base. Which one did you go to first?
00:44:34WITHEROW: Bagram was our main base that we were at, me and the group, like my soldiers that were in my team kind of split our time between there and Kandahar. And then we also did a couple of missions to Kabul also. So.
00:44:54BONANO: Okay, what was it like living on base?
00:45:01WITHEROW: Kind of desolate, I guess you could say. We were on the opposite side of where everything was. So we basically had a DFAC (Dining Facility) and our barracks and that was pretty much it on our side. Everything was on the other side of the airfield from where we were at. We did have a smaller gym over on our side. It definitely wasn't anything fancy. It was a bunch of warehouses, um, like really long warehouses and then our barracks. Yeah, and then that was lots of rocks, like they weren't even real rocks. They were like concrete that was broken up. That was the rocks, so. [Laugh]
00:45:54BONANO: Wow. What were your duties in Afghanistan? I guess a better question is what was a typical day like? You got up, you were living on Bagram. What did you do that day?
00:46:04WITHEROW: Um, I would get up at four in the morning and go work out because everybody else was still sleeping. And so I kind of got the gym to myself, which meant I got a little alone time to myself in the morning. Um, so I would go work it out and then I come back and kind of get ready for the day, um, and go over to the DFAC and eat breakfast. Uh, then we would head to our warehouse. Um, on some days we would do absolutely nothing. Because there just wasn't anything to do. It was basically being on standby. On other days, we were clearing vehicles the entire day. It really just depended on the day. If we were at more of a threat status, we would also provide security for our area. So like our ECPs, our entry control points. Um, to, like, where our barracks and our buildings are at, we would be at the gates, um, for that also. So.
00:47:04BONANO: Okay, what did you do during downtime?
00:47:09WITHEROW: Um. Depending on the time of the day, I tried to call home as much as possible so I could talk to my husband and my kids. I colored a lot when I was over there and journaled a lot and I read through the entire Game of Thrones while I was over there. Yeah, that was pretty much it. It was actually kind of cool because one of my sister's friends that she went to high school with was over there at the same time, like completely different mission. But occasionally on Saturday nights, I would go get pizza with her, just like that connection, the home basically. But yeah, we didn't really, there wasn't much to do because of like what side of the base we were on, so.
00:48:03BONANO: Yeah. Were you able to go into town at all, anywhere outside of the base, or were you just on base the whole time?
00:48:09WITHEROW: We had to be on base the whole time.
00:48:11BONANO: Okay. So you were there until August 2017, and then you were still in, you went back to Fort McCoy I'm assuming. Is that correct?
00:48:27WITHEROW: I went back home, yeah.
00:48:29BONANO: Yeah, and you were there for a little bit and you were just doing your regular, at this point you said you were still primary ammunition specialist?
00:48:37WITHEROW: Right, until December.
00:48:41BONANO: Okay, so what were you doing at Fort McCoy with the 395th Ordnance Company? What was their your tasks?
00:48:48WITHEROW: Before we go into that, I just, for the deployment part of it, like --.
00:48:54BONANO: Go ahead.
00:48:55WITHEROW: We brought up people for all the rest of them.
00:48:58BONANO: Oh, sorry, go ahead. Yeah.
00:48:59WITHEROW: No, it's fine. Um, so I got to serve with the last, um, like serving WAC, which is like the Woman's Army Corps. Like she was the last serving and she was over in Afghanistan with me. She was actually my Sergeant Major. So I just wanted to like put that up.
00:49:21BONANO: Wow. Well, thank you for bringing that up, what's her name?
00:49:26WITHEROW: Sergeant Major Lyons, so, Thelma Lyons, so.
00:49:28BONANO: So, um, you served with the last WAC you met. So she was there, um doing the same jobs as you guys.
00:49:35WITHEROW: She was at Battalion. So she was our battalion sergeant major.
00:49:37BONANO: Oh, okay. What was it like working with her?
00:49:41WITHEROW: Um, for me, it was fine. I was a woman. The guys didn't like her so much. But she kind of took those of us like gals underneath her wing and like was very protective of us. So it was it was good like being there with her and like knowing that like we had somebody that had rank that was there to have our back, kind of a thing. So.
00:50:08BONANO: Awesome. So Sergeant Major Lyons, was there anything else that stuck out to you while you were in Afghanistan? Any people, any things that might have happened?
00:50:22WITHEROW: I think that was like the main thing. I guess, like, I have my favorite battle buddy from there. She wasn't from my unit. She was from the MPs, but she was in the same building as me. We were both the only female NCOs in like small detachments that went over. So, and we're still like stay connected. So that's kind of cool, but like. Afghanistan kind of brought us together and we're still friends all these years later, so.
00:50:51BONANO: And what's her name?
00:50:56WITHEROW: Her name's Alana Sherrow.
00:50:57BONANO: How do you spell her last name?
00:51:00WITHEROW: S-H-E-R-R O-W.
00:51:01BONANO: Alana Sherrow. Okay, thanks. So yeah, so you go back to Wisconsin. The thing I asked was what were your duties and tasks when you were with the 395th Ordnance Company?
00:51:16WITHEROW: Okay. So when you get back as a reservist, you get 90 days before you have to report back to your unit. And in that time, I actually transferred over to the 646 RSG, the regional support group. And that was our headquarters. So that was like two up from the 395th to be part of supply there before I had to report.
00:51:45BONANO: Okay, good to know. So you got back from Afghanistan, you had your 90 days off, and during that time period you transferred to the 646 Regional Support Group.
00:51:54WITHEROW: Correct.
00:51:55BONANO: And that was based in Madison?
00:51:56WITHEROW: Correct.
00:51:57BONANO: And so you were there from December 2017 to October 2018, correct?
00:52:02WITHEROW: Correct.
00:52:03BONANO: So now you were a primary supply specialist.
00:52:05WITHEROW: Yes.
00:52:06BONANO: Okay, so what was a typical day like or your tasks doing that with the 646?
00:52:14WITHEROW: The majority of my tasks was coordinating anything that needed to be coordinated at Fort McCoy for training. Because I was here on ground. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So drawing whatever equipment we needed while we were here getting barracks, basically anything that they needed here. That was my job. So.
00:52:34BONANO: So you're still doing similar tasks, even though you were switching units.
00:52:41WITHEROW: Yeah, basically.
00:52:42BONANO: Okay. Any specific experiences you remember from this time period with the 646?
00:52:51WITHEROW: Um no not really.
00:52:58BONANO: Okay, um, I do have down sorry were you going to say something?
00:53:02WITHEROW: Oh no.
00:53:03BONANO: Okay I have down that in June 2018 your husband was deployed to Kuwait?
00:53:07WITHEROW: Correct.
00:53:08BONANO: Tell me about that when did you learn that he was going to go overseas?
00:53:12WITHEROW: So we learned about that in January of 2018. It was actually kind of a -- I don't know if you would call it like a drug deal. So basically, for me to transfer to the 646, that was the way I was able to be released, is he stepped in and went to the 395th because they needed a supply sergeant. So, I don't know. It was kind of one of those weird things. He wanted to go because he hadn't been yet, but yeah, I guess it's kind of one of the things that you do to kind of protect your family members. Um, so yeah, I don't know. It was definitely a challenge because I was still trying to reacclimate back to normal life and to not have my partner here while that was going on was a little difficult. And I know it was kind of hard on our kids, too, because it was like I got back and nine months later, he left. So, um, but yeah, so.
00:54:24BONANO: Did you stay in communication with him when he was in Kuwait?
00:54:27WITHEROW: Oh yeah, we talked daily.
00:54:29BONANO: Okay, that's good. Um, so when did he come back? How long was he there for?
00:54:36WITHEROW: He came back March of 2019.
00:54:39BONANO: Oh, okay. So it was it was a good long while. Um, so during that time you were still at Fort McCoy taking care of your kids on your own?
00:54:49WITHEROW: Yeah, I was working as a civilian out at Fort and then doing the reserve thing.
00:54:53BONANO: Right. How did that go? What was that experience like? Was this the first time your husband had gone, had deployed somewhere while you were together?
00:55:03WITHEROW: No, he was down in Texas, but at that time I only had two kids, so it was a little bit different than having three, and, they were like, the two older ones were a lot younger, so you get three that are going in all different directions. [Laugh]
00:55:22BONANO: Right.
00:55:23WITHEROW: Which is a little more of a challenge. So, um, but yeah, I mean, there was hard days, but we made it through. So.
00:55:31BONANO: Mm-hmm. Okay. So, um, so your husband's in Kuwait, but in October 2018, you moved to the 88th Readiness Division. Is that correct?
00:55:44WITHEROW: Right, so with him being gone, it was getting too hard to try and get down to Madison with child care. So they allowed me to transfer up to a Fort McCoy unit. So I transferred over to the 88th RD for the remainder of his deployment. So.
00:56:03BONANO: Okay, well that's helpful.
00:56:05WITHEROW: Yeah.
00:56:06BONANO: Um, again, similar tasks as -- as before?
00:56:10WITHEROW: I mean, it was similar, it was in a supply spot. I was also as a civilian, their staff administrative specialist though. So a lot of what I did on the weekends was similar to my civilian job and doing a lot the admin work and taking care of soldiers in that way. So.
00:56:28BONANO: Okay. So, um, clarify for me, because I don't know if I asked this explicitly, what was your civilian role during this time?
00:56:36WITHEROW: I worked for the 88th RD as a civilian. So I was their staff administrative specialist. So, I did like the pay, all of their administrative actions. And then like the supply stuff during the week. I did a lot of that too. So.
00:56:53BONANO: Okay, um, for this time period so you were with the 88th Readiness Division from October 2018 to August 2019. Any specific experiences you remember from this time periods, something that sticks out in your in your mind?
00:57:10WITHEROW: No, not really, just normal.
00:57:15BONANO: Just normal things, right? It sounds like even though you're moving from different units, you were still completing similar tasks throughout, right. Okay. So I'll move along if there's nothing else to talk about for 88. So in August 2019 you moved to, this is the info you gave me, F Company. Three of the 334th, is that how you say it? Three of 334? Regimental Battalion at Fort McCoy. Again, supply specialist, you were still working in a civilian role for this unit?
00:57:52WITHEROW: I actually was, at the same time, leaving as a civilian at the 88th, so I was just doing reserve stuff, so.
00:58:01BONANO: So the only thing you were doing was reserve. Okay. So you were just drilling. Um, was this any different from the other unit you were with?
00:58:12WITHEROW: It was because I actually had my own supply to do, I guess. I didn't have anybody else, so all the rest of them were like, higher commands, so there was always somebody like, higher, in charge, I think you could say. Whereas, like, I got to actually take care of the soldiers that were in this unit, like individually. It was my job, So.
00:58:37BONANO: Okay.
00:58:39WITHEROW: So, yeah.
00:58:40BONANO: So try to make that a little clearer for me. So in the past you had people telling you what to do essentially, but this time you were in charge. So how was that different?
00:58:51WITHEROW: So I was the one that got to actually talk to the soldiers one-on-one and figure out like what their needs were so what they were missing with their uniforms what they were missing with their gear. We had one soldier who had had a house fire like three years prior and still hadn't had his gear taken care of as far as all of that went. So getting all of that paperwork put in and taken care. Um, just making sure that they were like fully taken care and like while we had like, you know, like the next level as far as our battalion, like above us, so like account for everything, like it was my job. It wasn't somebody else's job that I was just kind of being tasked to do the little things, like, it was all my supply, like files at that point. So yeah, it's our responsibility, I guess.
00:59:43BONANO: Yeah it sounds like it did you have people under you that you had to give them tasks to do?
00:59:51WITHEROW: Not there, no.
00:59:52BONANO: Oh, okay, so it's just all you?
00:59:53WITHEROW: Yeah.
00:59:54BONANO: Um, did you like this more than prior tasks where you were just being told what to do?
01:00:01WITHEROW: I did because I was able to set things up for the way that worked better for me, I guess, I should say. [Laugh] So like still within regulation, but more at the level that like made more sense to me.
01:00:17BONANO: Okay, um, I also I have down that you got promoted to staff sergeant in May 2020. So what was that like?
01:00:27WITHEROW: That was an on Zoom in my dining room. I got pinned because it was in the middle of COVID. [Laugh] So yeah, so that was a really weird promotion. We at that point had been drilling at home for two months. I think that was our second month that we like were doing Zoom drills, which yeah, that was an interesting way to do Army. But yeah. Um, it was really cool though. The first sergeant, like his normally like I was still on the distribution for like all the promotions and stuff because of my civilian job before. Um, so I would have normally got that information before anybody else, but I hadn't checked my email that morning and I remember getting a group text saying you're no longer allowed to let Sergeant Witherow into the building. And I'm like, what? And the next text was like, because Staff Sergeant Witherow. And it was just like, [Laugh] okay. So like, it was a really cool, like he was so excited for me. And like, it meant a lot that like, I mean, even to this day, like if I need a reference or something, that's like my go-to as far as first sergeants go. So.
01:01:52BONANO: And, what was the first sergeant's name?
01:01:55WITHEROW: Uh, First Sergeant Garza.
01:01:59BONANO: Garza. Um, okay, so I have a couple questions I have to ask now. Um, drilling at home on Zoom. I haven't heard that one before. Can you explain what that was like?
01:02:11WITHEROW: So all of our trainings and everything were done on like Zooms. So at the time, I was the victim advocate for our SHARP program, which is the Sexual Harassment Assault Response Program. So like I had to give our quarterly training through Zoom. Any trainings, any business that we had, so our supply business, like. Having to go over like deficiencies for uniforms, all of that. Like um, we were given a list of like trainings that needed to be completed on like JKO and you need to get these done by the end of the weekend and prove that you did it by emailing us these certificates kind of a thing. So yeah, the COVID was weird as far as that went. So yeah.
01:03:06BONANO: So yeah, my wider question, I guess, because just it was a crazy time period was what was it like when -- when COVID started? Did there were no drastic changes at Fort McCoy?
01:03:21WITHEROW: I mean, basically, everything pretty much shut down for the most part. Um, my husband's a civilian out of Fort McCoy, but his, so he's like, he still had to go to work every day because of his job. Um, but there was a lot of people who were just like, it was all telework. So it was like a ghost town out there. It was crazy.
01:03:45BONANO: Yeah. It was a very strange time for lots of people.
01:03:48WITHEROW: Yeah, it definitely was. So I remember because we weren't allowed to be like in buildings together, but there was enough of us because our unit was at Fort McCoy. So there's a good majority of us that lived here at Fort McCoy. And we're like, can we have permission? I think it was in, it was June. We were like, we're sick of not seeing each other. That can we have her mixed in to go for a RUC march. Like its outside, we'll keep our distance. And so we got to go for a RUC march in June, like those of us that were in the area. So, which was probably a mistake. I remember getting the worst blisters I have ever had after a RUC March on that, because I hadn't worn my boots in three months at that point. So, and we did, I think we did ten miles that day. And so, yeah, that was the worst blisters that I have ever had. Even at basic training, they weren't that bad, but. But it was so great to be around our battle buddies and just be able to see them and physically not just through a screen. So.
01:04:53BONANO: Alright. Um, so you mentioned this in passing, but I am interested you said you were an advocate in the SHARP program.
01:05:01WITHEROW: Yes.
01:05:02BONANO: When did you start doing that?
01:05:04WITHEROW: Yah, I did my training for that in June of 2019?
01:05:13BONANO: Okay. Ah, why'd you want to join that?
01:05:16WITHEROW: Okay, I came from a very toxic unit. But there was a lot of that going on and we didn't have the right people in those positions, I guess you could say. And so out of protecting others, I felt that like I needed to do it because I've always kind of been that one to step in and be more protective. Um, I felt like that unit did a lot of kind of sweeping things under the rug when it shouldn't have. And not really listening to the problems that were actually happening. So um, when I was, because I was a civilian, obviously at the 88th, and that's where they had like the whole program, like they headed up for the 19-state region. So they had a slot and I jumped in on the training. I was like, we need more people that are going to actually step up and do something versus just have the title behind their name, so.
01:06:27BONANO: Um-hum. Were there any incidents that happened, or was it just like a general toxic environment that you didn't like so much?
01:06:37WITHEROW: There was Incidents that were happening that even the command team wasn't taking care of in that unit. So.
01:06:43BONANO: Okay. Um, so how often were you working as a program advocate? Like, was it something that you unfortunately had to be doing often or -- or no?
01:06:52WITHEROW: I never actually had to use like the victim advocate like nobody like actually used that. But I did all the trainings quarterly for my unit. So.
01:07:05BONANO: Okay. That's great to know. Um, so, yeah, anything else that went on at your last unit because, so I have that you got promoted in May 2020, but then you were done in December 20. So anything else? That happened that you want to point out before we move on?
01:07:26WITHEROW: Um, I guess my biggest thing with that is I did not leave the Army on my terms.
01:07:35BONANO: Okay, well explain how we got to that point.
01:07:40WITHEROW: So when I got back from deployment, I did the right thing, in my opinion anyways, and got help for my PTSD. And my PTSD is what put me out of the Army. Um, so a colonel in the Army got to decide my fate because I was put on medications and they -- he felt that I would be on them longer than was acceptable. It, that part frustrates me because there's people that are still in the Army that have gotten in trouble and done stuff and they're getting promoted and I wasn't given that opportunity to like just get myself better. So I don't know. I had a really good record in the Army, like I never had anything besides at basic training being told I rolled my eyes, like, I never got any disciplinary actions against me. And yet I was put out because I did the right thing instead of sitting and allowing my mental health to get worse. And I feel that that's a stigma that the military still really needs to work on. So.
01:09:06BONANO: Definitely.
01:09:07WITHEROW: I just need to put that up.
01:09:09BONANO: Yeah, definitely, I agree. Is there, well you don't have to answer this question, but I feel like I have to ask, you said you got, you felt like, well I don't know how to word this, you got back from Afghanistan and felt like you were dealing with PTSD at that point?
01:09:23WITHEROW: Right. So my husband, on my yellow ribbon when I got back, cause I had to go through that myself, um there was a behavioral health sergeant major who I had actually worked with when I was like on ADOS for yellow ribbon. And my husband was like, I need you to sit down with Sergeant Major Ortecari because he's like, you're struggling with stuff that I can't help you with and that's gonna be who's gonna to be able to help you. Um, and at that point, like, I was struggling with trying to get all the VA stuff, like to go through, like stuff, I don't know what happened with my paperwork, stuff ended up down the wrong, I-don't-know-where, but anyways. So like I sat down with him, I kind of talked, because I was angry. I was anger at everything, and I was snapping at like nothing. Um, so he got me, you know, set up with the Tomah VA. I finally after a bunch of bumps in the road, got a good therapist at the Tomah VA. And um, so yeah, it was, it definitely was PTSD. Um, like, I've officially been diagnosed with it. Um. But. At the same time, how many of our service members are struggling that don't want to say something because of the same thing that I ended up going through in my career being cut short. So. Yeah.
01:10:57BONANO: No, yeah, thanks for sharing, because that's really tough. Like exactly what you said, you want to be able to talk about what happened to you without it affecting your job, right?
01:11:06WITHEROW: Right.
01:11:07BONANO: Um, so yeah, so because of this, how did it happen exactly though that this higher up decided, you know, they looked at you and your paperwork and they were like, you're done. How did that decision occur?
01:11:21WITHEROW: So every year we have to go through a medical evaluation. And I was on medications at the time to help me kind of cope with everything while I was going through therapy. So that flagged me. And then that started an entire process. They went through all of my records. Like I had to give them access to everything at the VA. I think I went through two or three different like, evaluations. Um, and then like all of the medical, like, it was like a good, like three months of like going through like evaluation after evaluation. Um, and like even my therapist was like on the right track to like within the next six months being good to go. Um, and I had a letter from my first sergeant, my command sergeant major. She's doing well, even going through treatment, all of that. So somebody that didn't even know me, never even talked to me, basically looked at a bunch of documents and that was where the decision was made.
01:12:38BONANO: Did they provide you reasoning for why that decision was made?
01:12:43WITHEROW: They said that I was going to be on medications for over a year. I was off of them five months after I got out of the Army.
01:12:55BONANO: Wow, okay, Were you surprised that that happened?
01:13:01WITHEROW: Not really, but I think a lot of that has to do with being a female in the military and the standards are different for a lot of things. So.
01:13:11BONANO: Have you heard this happen to other women in the military before?
01:13:15WITHEROW: Yeah.
01:13:16BONANO: Okay. I guess I kind of know the answer to this question, but I'll ask, would you have stayed in much longer if they didn't medically retire you?
01:13:24WITHEROW: Yeah, I would still be in right now.
01:13:26BONANO: Yeah, um, so how did it feel initially when the decision was made and you were out? What was that like?
01:13:37WITHEROW: I had a low. Like, I felt like I had done something wrong. Like there was a lot of shame I guess that went behind it. So.
01:13:51BONANO: Yeah. Um, were you still seeing, you know, psychiatrists, therapists about that kind of stuff afterwards?
01:13:58WITHEROW: Yeah.
01:13:59BONANO: Yeah. Um, this is a later question, but I'll jump to it because it's a little relevant. Were you using your VA benefits and continuing all of that?
01:14:07WITHEROW: Yeah.
01:14:08BONANO: Yeah. Okay. Uh, your husband is still in the Army? Yes or no?
01:14:13WITHEROW: No, he actually retired a year before I got out.
01:14:16BONANO: Oh, okay. So you retired in 2019?
01:14:18WITHEROW: Hmm.
01:14:19BONANO: Okay. Um, are you making any use of your veterans benefits? Um, like the GI bill? Did you make use of that?
01:14:30WITHEROW: Yeah. I'm actually two classes away from graduating with my bachelor's.
01:14:35BONANO: Oh, congratulations. What are you studying?
01:14:37WITHEROW: Psychology. [Laugh]
01:14:40BONANO: Wow, yeah. Cool. Where are you going to school?
01:14:42WITHEROW: Ah, through University of Wisconsin-Superior.
01:14:46BONANO: Okay. So, what is your plan with that? What are your ideas about the future?
01:14:55WITHEROW: So my plan is I'll obviously graduate this next year and then I'm gonna take a year off and then start on my graduate program for social work.
01:15:08WITHEROW: Oh, okay.
01:15:09WITHEROW: And eventually I want to work with other Veterans because like I was kind of saying earlier my road to finding a therapist at the VA was a very bumpy one. There is not really good continuity. So, at least not here. I think because we're a smaller area, so people start here, but they move to the bigger areas. So, yeah, I wanna be able to provide that continuity though for somebody that's struggling in the future. So.
01:15:40BONANO: Right. Um I want to ask because it sounds like you know your husband retired in 2019 you in 2020, What was that like for you both to be out at the same time all of a sudden?
01:15:50WITHEROW: That was a really weird experience. So we had been married for 17 years at that point. And up to that point, one of us was like gone on and off. So we hadn't really like lived together for more than like a couple months at a time. Like somebody was gone like for a week here, a week there. So he retired and then COVID happened. So, and then I got out of the Army. So we like literally, 2021 was a year of adjustment. Like we had to learn how to actually like live in the same house together, like 365 days out of a year. Um, but we're loving the fact that for the most part, cause he still works for the Army as a civilian. But for the most part, like -- the Army no longer controls our comings and goings. If we wanna plan a vacation, we can plan a vacation and we don't have to worry about something popping up and being required to be there. So, yeah.
01:17:04BONANO: Right. So you left the military December 2020 and when did you start going to school?
01:17:12WITHEROW: I started. So I went to Western first. I got my associates there. So, I started there in September of '22.
01:17:20BONANO: Okay.
01:17:21WITHEROW: I had some medical stuff happen in between that I had to take of first.
01:17:27BONANO: Okay.
01:17:29WITHEROW: But, so I got my associates in leadership development through them and that was kind of my build my confidence back up, I guess you could say. Just kind of get back out there. So, and then I, so I graduated from there in May of '24 and then, I started at Superior in September of '24.
01:17:54BONANO: Oh, okay. Um, so my next question was going to be about your career path after the military. So, um, so you're working on that now, I guess. [Laugh] You're -- you're you want to be a social worker within the VA or you want it to work with Veterans period?
01:18:12WITHEROW: I think Veterans period, and I'm really looking more at the nonprofit route just because I think some are afraid to go straight to the VA when they're coming back, so, oh.
01:18:26BONANO: Why do you think that that's the case?
01:18:29WITHEROW: Especially those that are still in the military, there's the stigma and the possibility of the record being transferred over. So.
01:18:37BONANO: Oh, okay. So you think you can maybe catch some people who are kind of being let down like in between --
01:18:45WITHEROW: Yeah.
01:18:46WITHEROW: -- that section. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay. So, you mentioned a lot of people in your interview that you remember that were impactful on your life. Did you continue any relationships with people that you served with?
01:19:00WITHEROW: Um. I mean, I have a couple, like -- like, Master Sergeant Lawrence that I brought up from the 86th, we're on honor guard together, so like, for military funerals, we do those together still, um, and like, sporadically, I'll see people here and there, but a lot of them are still in, so we're kind of in different places of life. So.
01:19:35BONANO: Right. So again, a bit of a good transition. You're doing honor guards. Tell me about being involved with the American Legion post 100. Correct?
01:19:45WITHEROW: Right. Um, so that was the main reason I joined. Um, I feel like it's a duty to be able to like, and that opportunity really, to be able, to do that final, like piece for another veteran and like, to like honor them one last time. So, um, I feel like in some ways, some of these, especially older Veterans are forgotten about. I know like my very first funeral that I did there was more of us there on the honor guard than there were there at the graveside for his funeral. Like the nursing home staff was all that was there for him to like receive the flag and that was like the day that I realized yep this is exactly where I'm supposed to be and what I'm supposed to be doing because this veteran deserves like the honor just as much as I do. So. Um, if not more, like depending on, you know, what they did. Um, so I just, like you said, that was the only reason I even joined the Legion. It was like, I found out that like, that, was something I could like help out with. And my schedule's pretty flexible because I'm going to school, so I can jump on most of them. So, um, yesterday I got the opportunity, like one of our coworkers and somebody that we served with. Um, like, we got to do the honors for her funeral. So yeah, it's just kind of, I don't know. It's humbling, I guess, is really what it comes down to.
01:21:25BONANO: Yeah, thanks for sharing that. Do you do anything else with the American Legion or is it just the honor guards?
01:21:32WITHEROW: I'm dabbling on, we have all of our elections coming up right now, on deciding on that. We do go to the meetings every month, my husband and I do, but we still have a kid in school, so trying to commit to like extra stuff, like he's pretty active with sports and stuff. So, um, our time, that's our primary. We've missed so much of their lives. We refuse to miss any activities that we could be at. So.
01:22:10BONANO: That makes sense. Um, when did you join? How long have you been with the American Legion?
01:22:17WITHEROW: About a year and a half now.
01:22:22BONANO: Okay. Um, what are your thoughts in general on being an Army veteran?
01:22:27WITHEROW: It's an honor to have been able to serve my country, so I would do it again in a heartbeat. So.
01:22:38BONANO: What are your thoughts on military holidays like Memorial Day or Veterans Day? Do you do anything special on those days?
01:22:47WITHEROW: Um, we always go to the Memorial Day thing that we have here in town in Sparta. This year we're doing the Color Guard for our parade, and then we'll do, we're actually in the ceremony for it this year, um, and the same with Veterans Day. We always go to that. Um and we also did the Color Guard for the high school this last year. Memorial Day is a really special day I guess you could say. One of my classmates actually passed away on Memorial Day in 2005. So it's kind of like it's like it a big holiday and then it's also like it got that really special meaning because like of the date so and I think that's part of the reason I thought so hard to be able to join the Army when I did is to be able to kind of honor his legacy too. So yeah.
01:23:54BONANO: Thanks for sharing that. Any, well, you touched on this throughout your interview, but for your final thoughts on it, what was it like being in a dual military family? Any specific struggles or highlights you wanted to bring up?
01:24:13WITHEROW: I think, like, there's a lot of balance to it, too. I think for us, the biggest thing was like being respectful of the parent that was at home. Because they were the ones that were doing it. And so you're coming back into it and trying to change things. So just being able to kind of observe and adjust to, oh, this may have been the way it was before I left, but coming back and knowing that like I may have to change some of this stuff because this is what was working while I was away, so.
01:25:07BONANO: Yeah, um, have you ever gotten your kids thoughts on what it was like to have both parents in the military?
01:25:13WITHEROW: Um, my youngest thinks it's the coolest thing ever. My middle one absolutely hates the military because of it. And my oldest has gone back and forth on it. Sometimes he thinks it is the coolest thing and other times it's our fault that this, that or the other happened because we weren't there. So, yeah.
01:25:38BONANO: It's -- it's tough on them. So I wanted to know if that was if that was ever something you talked to them about.
01:25:42WITHEROW: Yeah.
01:25:43BONANO: Yeah. What do you think your life would have been like if you didn't join the Army?
01:25:50WITHEROW: I honestly I don't know. I think I'd still like be vicariously living through my husband's career, so. And like trying to figure out what he's talking about when he comes home from work. At least now, like when he talks about stuff, it's like, oh, I like know what he is talking about, so yeah.
01:26:16BONANO: Yeah. What motivated you to do this interview?
01:26:22WITHEROW: I think to give voice to more women that are in the military, we're kind of the minority. So.
01:26:31BONANO: Yeah, what did you think of the I'm not invisible event?
01:26:37WITHEROW: It was pretty empowering.
01:26:39BONANO: Yeah. Um, well, we're going to be wrapping up soon. So this is my, uh, my last, um, one of my last questions. So whatever you think you can remember, I think you want to cover. So did we miss anything that you wanted to bring up? It could be about anything.
01:27:02WITHEROW: I don't think so.
01:27:04BONANO: Okay, we did cover a lot, yeah. So I'm just gonna make sure I got everything. Yeah, I think that's it. So thank you for everything, Rachelle. I appreciate you taking the time to interview with us. So that concludes the interview.
