00:00:00SPRAGUE: Today is June 1st, 2026. This is an interview with Melissa Doud, who served in the United States Army from October 1990 to December 2010. Sounds right?
00:00:14DOUD: Sounds about right.
00:00:15SPRAGUE: Okay. This interview is being conducted by Luke Sprague at the Wisconsin Veterans Museum for the I Am Not Invisible Project for the Wisconsin Veteran's Museum Oral History Program. No one else is present in the interview room. Okay, Melissa, tell me a little bit about where you grew up.
00:00:35DOUD: I am a Native American. I'm on Ojibwe from Lac du Flambeau, Wisconsin. I was born and raised there. At 18 I decided to go to college since no one in my family had been to college, so I did that for a year. Now I was there for a few months and then I came home at Christmas time and I saw my cousin and one of my best friends. And another person and another cousin and they all had their respective dress uniforms on, whether it was like Army Greens or Marines, Navy, whatever that may be. And I was just in so, I was in awe of them. I was so fascinated by what they were doing and it kind of raised my curiosity and I was proud of them and a little bit envious too. So, right then and there I was like, that's when I knew I was going to do it, so I went up to -- back up to college in northern Michigan and I found a recruiter. And the Navy recruiter was trying to get me, but I already had my sights locked in on the Army because my uncle, my mom's brother and then my dad were Army, so that's kind of where that -- how that came to be.
00:01:57SPRAGUE: Was there a family tradition of Army service?
00:02:01DOUD: Um, I don't know that if, you know, um, like beyond my uncle, if anyone else had, had served. Um, but I would say just like that with a lot of other families, you kind of go with your family member, what they joined. So, one of my best friends, my cousin, she was Army, so along with kind of our side of the family doing that. So that's, I would, yes, it's a tradition because my son also joined the Army. So, I would say, yeah, that's a family, it's a family thing.
00:02:35SPRAGUE: I have to ask; would it be appropriate for me to ask you your uncle and father's name in terms of their service?
00:02:42DOUD: Terry Dowd, senior, was my uncle, and then Tom Malson was my dad.
00:02:48SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:02:49DOUD: So.
00:02:50SPRAGUE: Okay, and what did your dad and your uncle say about you joining the Army?
00:02:59DOUD: My uncle thought it was like pretty cool, but he was still like a little nervous for me. Um, I think that every parent or kind of figure like that kind of just worry about family members and whatever, but I knew I made the right choice. So they were more supportive than anything.
00:03:21SPRAGUE: And what was your first term of service? How long did you enlist for?
00:03:26DOUD: Um, in the Army, you can sign up for two years, so that I was, because I was a little scared and not knowing what to expect, I said that's what I'm going to do, so I did the two years. So I went to basic training and AIT at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. So yeah, so, that's kind of where that started. And then I kind of got stationed in various places around the country.
00:03:54SPRAGUE: Yah, so, I have to ask, did you choose your MOS before you --
00:04:02DOUD: Yes.
00:04:03SPRAGUE: -- departed?
00:04:04DOUD: Yes. So I was going to college for business management. And so numbers, money, budgets, finances, things like that intrigued me. Those were my interests. So they found a supply person, you know, position. And I really liked it. I actually was okay with my, with my MOS. I was content.
00:04:33SPRAGUE: Okay. Did you think about maybe after you got out leveraging that?
00:04:40DOUD: I did. Um, I worked for accounting for our tribe. I also worked for an organization called Great Lakes Inter-Tribal Council, which is like a grant-driven organization that helps tribes in Minnesota, Michigan, and Wisconsin. And I worked in accounting for -- for them as well. And then I worked at Chippewa Valley Bank and also our business development corporation. Back again at Great Lakes, and then this position came open at Wisconsin Department of Veteran Affairs.
00:05:13SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:05:14DOUD: Yeah, I was able to utilize a lot of those skills with numbers, money, accountability, almost like if you wanna call it like asset management. I was able to do that and incorporate my skills into like civilian careers.
00:05:30SPRAGUE: Okay, so hopping back, hopping back to basic training, was it cool down at Fort Jackson or had it just started to cool off yet when you got there?
00:05:43DOUD: I wanna say it's pretty comparable to Wisconsin as far as we did have frost on the ground. I remember that being cold waking up and waking up in the ground or in a foxhole. So, and then I don't remember it being too terribly hot. So it was tolerable.
00:06:03SPRAGUE: Yeah, I was thinking that and looking at your sequence, it looks like maybe you were there in late fall or maybe October of '90, maybe.
00:06:11DOUD: Yep.
00:06:12SPRAGUE: And then that would have been back through into the next year.
00:06:15DOUD: Yep.
00:06:17SPRAGUE: Okay. What was it like? Where were you coming from in Wisconsin and what was it going to Fort Jackson South Carolina?
00:06:25DOUD: Okay, so I came from, like I said, an Indian reservation, born and raised, and then when I signed up I went to the MEPs in Milwaukee, and you know, some things are a little bit of a blur, but I remember going there, some people had like those little, like a little battle buddy or they would join together, but, I was just out there on my own, and I remember like kind of being, you know, when you're kind of getting roughed up a little bit and hollered at by drill sergeants. I remember just kind of thinking to myself, they're just doing their job, they're doing what they're supposed to do, they're suppose to intimidate and lead with purpose. But I just remember thinking, everybody in this room is going through the same thing I'm going through. And I think that that just kinda kept me like stable and strong, just knowing that we were all in it together, so.
00:07:18SPRAGUE: Did your family who are veterans give you any advice?
00:07:22DOUD: I had a couple of different cousins at home that were teaching me how to march, how to do a left face, how to right face. So I learned a little bit of that before I went.
00:07:35SPRAGUE: So you had kind of a --
00:07:38DOUD: Yeah.
00:07:38SPRAGUE: Yeah, a little bit of prep, okay.
00:07:40DOUD: A little bit.
00:07:41SPRAGUE: I gotta ask, did your family come down for graduation or not?
00:07:45DOUD: No
00:07:45SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:07:46DOUD: No And that's, you know, that's okay. Like I said, we didn't, we were a little unfortunate. We didn't have a car, you know, growing up, so there was that. But so when my son graduated, I was going to do everything possible to make sure I got down there for him so that he wouldn't, he would be able to remember that and you know because it's kind of, it's an important thing, you -- you know. We just couldn't afford that back then. And so when he graduated, there were six of us that went. We were able to watch him graduate. So it was kind of like a bittersweet moment.
00:08:23SPRAGUE: So tell, can you tell me a little bit more about your son's graduation or?
00:08:28DOUD: Well, he won an award for PT for physical training. He had like the top physical score. And so he always had this game of I have to beat my mom. [Laugh] And so, but he, so he beat me.
00:08:42SPRAGUE: Okay, so you're at Fort Jackson and you were a 92 Yankee?
00:08:52DOUD: Ah, hum. When I joined, it was a 76 Yankee.
00:08:55SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:08:56DOUD: Which is supply. And then later, they kind of changed a lot of those MOSs and numbers. So eventually, it a 92 Yankee. But same thing.
00:09:06SPRAGUE: And what was it like being at Fort Jackson with all these people from all over the country? What was that like?
00:09:17DOUD: Ah. I really took to that. I was -- It wasn't like culture shock for me because I had done a little bit of traveling in my younger days. So I was kind of used to meeting and seeing people of different races and backgrounds and things of that nature. So I able to just kind of harness that and really be a team player.
00:09:44SPRAGUE: What was, did you have any other training that you attended after getting your MOS training?
00:09:51DOUD: I had taken a couple of different courses throughout my career, I remember taking a combat lifesaver course.
00:09:59SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:10:00DOUD: That's not my cup of tea.
00:10:01SPRAGUE: [Laugh]
00:10:02DOUD: I did it, but that didn't mean I wanted to keep sticking needles in people or have them stick me with needles. So that was, you know, kind of did it because I was told. And then like correspondence courses, we had to take a lot of those. But anything other than that, there might have been some other courses, but that one I do remember pretty clear.
00:10:22SPRAGUE: The combat lifesaver? Did you end up using that later at all or not?
00:10:28DOUD: No.
00:10:29SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:10:30DOUD: No.
00:10:31SPRAGUE: Okay, so anything else you want to tell us about AIT and basic training?
00:10:38DOUD: Let's see, I remember getting there and I remember being really, really scared at first because you don't know what you're getting into when you just, you don't know what you don't know. And so I was like, I'm just going to do the easiest thing I can and just try not to be out there that way. But after I got to basic, I kind of realized actually how strong I really was, physically and mentally. And just spiritually more than some. And I think that that just really got me through my whole career. I wanted to, after I got there, I was like, man, I should have went airborne. I should've went air assault. I could handle that. I knew I could. And then even after I kind of went on, you know, you ask for things later and it's like, oh, if it wasn't in your contract, then you can't do that. And I was really trying to, really wanting, really trying to be gung-ho and do it. But, I just didn't have the opportunity.
00:11:43SPRAGUE: Did you get to choose your first duty station or were you just given orders?
00:11:48DOUD: I was just given orders and so my first duty assignment was Korea. And so Korea and the weather there is very, very comparable to Wisconsin as well. I got there in February and there was like a blizzard. And me and another person had to go down to this bottom of this hill because the bus didn't go down that far because of the snow and ice. And I just remember like hanging on this railing. Her and I, marching down this hill with our duffel bags, and it was just kind of comical now that you think about it. But I just remember thinking, we just got to get there. We're in this together. Come on, we got to down this, this hill. And, and we did and got to where we needed to go. And then we found out where we were being stationed and found our little assignments and stuff. But yeah, you just kind of you got to do what you got to do, you know, just complete the mission.
00:12:46SPRAGUE: So I, you were kind enough to fill out the pre-interview form. And I have you at Camp Coiner?
00:12:53DOUD: Yeah, it's part of being in Seoul, Korea, like there's like the main base, but then down that hill was considered Camp Coiner, and I was in an aviation unit when I was there.
00:13:05SPRAGUE: Okay. And do you happen to remember that unit?
00:13:09DOUD: 458th Aviation.
00:13:11SPRAGUE: Okay. So help me out for that. Was that a 4th Battalion?
00:13:15DOUD: I don't remember.
00:13:16SPRAGUE: 58th Aviation Regiment?
00:13:18DOUD: Yeah, it had to have been. Yeah.
00:13:20SPRAGUE: Okay. And you had mentioned that you were, pre-interview, that you are under a brigade maybe? Or what was your roll there?
00:13:30DOUD: Um. I just remember that I guess the brigade may have been like kind of scattered throughout Korea if I remember right because I did have friends that were I think part of it stationed in different places. So yeah, it's kind of hard to remember. I just remembered being in supply and being out in the field and you know got right into the thick of it right away.
00:13:54SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:13:56DOUD: Yeah.
00:13:56SPRAGUE: So that would have been, if it was February, when you arrived, it would have been February of '91 maybe roughly?
00:14:03DOUD: Yes. Yes.
00:14:04SPRAGUE: Okay. Now I have to ask, was that an accompanying tour or unaccompanied?
00:14:09DOUD: Unaccompanied. I believe that for anybody that's going to Korea, if you've been in the Army like nine years and you go over and if you're married and have a family, it's an unaccompanied tour, which didn't really matter to me because I wasn't married anyway, so I was kind of just going with going with the flow.
00:14:27SPRAGUE: Yeah, ah, so I have to ask, because I was stationed north of there, did you get any time in Yongsan up the hill or?
00:14:39DOUD: I went to Panmunjom when we were up there and I remember there being like I guess if it was the ROC Army and all these buildings kind of just in certain formation and there were guards standing on the corner of every building just watching all over and you couldn't you weren't supposed to make like any kind of sudden moves. And inside of this building I remember their being a long rectangular table and in the middle was like a North Korean flag and a South Korean flag. And I remember them telling us to walk around the table. And when we were on the other side of the table, they said that we were in North Korea. That's where the divide, per se, was. So I was able to do that little tour up there as a young private. And I always remember that, because I can say that I was in North Korean.
00:15:31SPRAGUE: I have to ask, what were your impressions of North Korea?
00:15:36DOUD: Oh, they were like really strict. I mean, you didn't want to make those sudden moves. You're just kind of like looking around like these guys are like, this is like the real, the real deal. So you just kind to just be respectful and do what they say. And then, you know, like, again, we were all in that must have been a group of us. And it was fine as long as we just followed the rules.
00:15:57SPRAGUE: Okay, and what was a typical day for you like in that unit?
00:16:07DOUD: Um. We were in the field quite a bit. We did a lot of motor pool stuff and supply inventory. I remember doing all these different like number two tool kits were like one of the biggest things. Um. So we'd have to like break a lot, of things down, doing a lot of maintenance on our vehicles, doing like our load order, like how things needed to be in the back of our trailers when we were getting ready to go. Inventories of like what they call hexes and diamonds of all the camouflage things and having like little zip ties and repair kits to put things back together, making sure we had all the butterflies and all the poles per all of our kits, yum, filling up the water buffalo for soldiers, so all the all the good supply stuff, making sure we have everything we needed to, and then ordering things if people were short on some things. So it was like you just jumped right into the supply part of it, you know. And so I learned a lot when I was there from the leadership in the supply positions.
00:17:12SPRAGUE: Were you, I have to ask, were you at the battalion or were you in a particular company or what was your -- where was the -- who were you -- how -- where were you? Don't remember?
00:17:24DOUD: I don't really remember. I just remember being a young private.
00:17:27SPRAGUE: Yep.
00:17:28DOUD: And going out to the field quite a bit and just learning all the different codes in the computer systems and things of that nature, like at the property book office, which is like a little higher than the supply, but got right into the thick of things and learned pretty quick.
00:17:50SPRAGUE: Ah, did you have any KATUSAs in your unit?
00:17:54DOUD: We did, yeah. I remember like hanging out with them and really wanting to learn more of their culture because I came -- come from a, you know, Native American background. So of course I'm like curious and I used to like sit down and eat kimchi with them. They would share a little bit of their language, some of their cultural shows. I was able to go to a trip down the Han River on a boat and go to some of their gardens with the -- the traditional dress. Maybe they were weddings or some type of ceremony. And I remember being, there's a building there. I don't know if it's still there, but it's like the 63-story building and it's like gold. I just remember it being shaped, kind of tapered at the bottom and then going up. And we were able to see. They were like the ladies sitting down playing the guitar. I don't know what they're called, but something and just the music and just really, really embracing a lot of that. It was, yum, it was just impressive, you know, and just being able to share and learn, just broadening spectrums kind of thing, so yeah, that was one of the highlights when I was there. Yeah.
00:19:16SPRAGUE: Did you find yourself wanting to spend more time outside the gate than inside the gate?
00:19:23DOUD: Yes. Yes. And we did a little bit of that. I remember we went to the Olympic Stadium when it was there from like 1988. I visited that a couple of times. I also surprised my cousin who was stationed over there. And long before the days of social media and being able to just pick up a phone and call anybody, I had to go through my PAC office or my S1, the admin office, and said, hey, my cousin is here, can you help me find her? And so I gave them her name and they found her and I jumped on a bus on a weekend pass and I went and found her up at Camp Casey in 4th Chemical Company, yeah.
00:20:03SPRAGUE: Go Camp Casey.
00:20:04DOUD: Yeah.
00:20:05SPRAGUE: I'm a former Camp Casey guy.
00:20:07DOUD: Okay.
00:20:08SPRAGUE: -- alumni.
00:20:09DOUD: Yeah.
00:20:10SPRAGUE: Ah, any -- spend any time in Itaewon?
00:20:14DOUD: Yes, we had a lot of good times down there. Ah, of course, there's the participating in extracurricular activities. We did a lot that, but also the shopping. There would be the knockoffs, if you want to call it that. Oh, yeah. You could buy Nike shoes, and Nike clothes, and anything was always something. You could purchase, whether it be like some cultural, you know, whatever. But yeah, I spent a lot of time out there.
00:20:50SPRAGUE: Okay. And you mentioned the story about visiting your cousin up at Casey. Pre-interview, you talked about going to Guam for mid-tour.
00:21:04DOUD: Yeah, so Korea being a major, I forgot to say, my cousin was Renee Poupart. She was stationed and she had joined six months before me and one of the ones that I saw prior to joining. She was one of those that was, that inspired me. Um, so Korea being your tour, a lot of people at six months would take their little furlough or their leave and they would go home. I thought to myself, I just left there. I left there to leave and go on adventures and travel and do whatever. And so I thought about going, I'd been to Japan four times and I thought about going to China because the Chinese dragons, like in the parade, to me that was just China and I wanted to go and see some stuff like that, the whole culture side of it. But then I looked on the map and I found this little territory out in the middle of the ocean, U.S. Territory, and I was like, what is that? And it was Guam. So I was like, I'm gonna go to Guam for a week. So I did. And it was a beautiful little island and it just kind of a lot of relaxation and didn't do a whole lot there, but I just did, I went there and so now I can say that I've been there. And would I go back? Yeah, I would go back.
00:22:24SPRAGUE: Wow. So your cousin's name, Renee Poupart, how do you pronounce it?
00:22:31DOUD: Renee Poupart.
00:22:32SPRAGUE: How do you spell the Poupart?
00:22:35DOUD: P-O-U-P-A-R-T.
00:22:36SPRAGUE: Okay, got it. Thank you. That way we'll have it right for the record. So you had a year. How much time did you have left when you got out of Korea, or was that?
00:22:48DOUD: So I had like a year left and that was when I went to Fort Sill.
00:22:52SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:22:53DOUD: Fort Sill, Oklahoma.
00:22:53SPRAGUE: Great.
00:22:54DOUD: And so when I got there, that's when I met my husband and we had a son and then I came down on orders for Alaska. And, you know, I didn't pick that, it just kind of came up and I was like, wow. I'll reenlist to go to Alaska. [Laugh] So I did, and then I got stationed up there, and um--
00:23:21SPRAGUE: I was going to ask you why you chose to reenlist, because you were coming up on reenlistment.
00:23:26DOUD: Yep. Yep.
00:23:27SPRAGUE: And ah, we'll spend a, we'll come back to that, let's, a quick minute on Fort Sill. You were there with the -- maybe the first or the thirtieth?
00:23:38DOUD: Yeah.
00:23:39SPRAGUE: Artillery.
00:23:39DOUD: First of the 30th. It was more like a support unit. But again, I was in supply. I worked at the property book office. So that was like the for -- the bigger, most of like post. So we learned about like the MLRS systems and, you know, all the other field artillery things, you know. Um I just remember being at the property book. I wasn't in a supply room per se. But I really liked that the logistical part of supply that was probably one of my favorite places to be.
00:24:19SPRAGUE: So, ah, so, at this point, you were two years plus in, maybe three.
00:24:27DOUD: Two.
00:24:27SPRAGUE: Two years in private first class, or specialist?
00:24:31DOUD: I think I was a specialist?
00:24:34SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:24:34DOUD: Yeah.
00:24:35SPRAGUE: And, um-- It's interesting, I had no idea that property book offices had specialists and whole teams working on --
00:24:51DOUD: Yeah.
00:24:52SPRAGUE: Wow. Wow. Yeah. That's interesting.
00:24:53DOUD: Yeah, it was it was awesome. We had all kinds of different people that worked in that department. And there were maybe three of us as soldiers that worked in there but it was mostly like I think like GS-7s or GS those the civilian side of the house. A lot of them worked there.
00:25:14SPRAGUE: Okay, and then how long were you with that unit at Fort Sill?
00:25:21DOUD: Um, I think only that year.
00:25:24SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:25:25DOUD: If I remember right.
00:25:26SPRAGUE: So that would have been like mid to late '92?
00:25:28DOUD: Yeah, I think I was—actually, I was there for two years.
00:25:32SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:25:37DOUD: Um, because once I reenlisted, I was for a little bit more time before I was stationed in Alaska.
00:25:41SPRAGUE: Okay. Anything that you want to tell us about Fort Sill that you remember or don't want to remember?
00:25:53DOUD: Um, I think more again like on the outside I remember like seeing a lot of Buffalo, you know, learning a lot about all those multiple launch rocket systems. Yeah, just being at the property book office mostly. You know, I didn't really venture out too much, but I did go off post just for some hiking, running to Geronimo's grave. We've done that when we were there.
00:26:26SPRAGUE: What did you what did you think of that?
00:26:28DOUD: Its long, long run. [Laugh]
00:26:34SPRAGUE: Um. Okay, so you mentioned getting married at the time or before that and then having a son.
00:26:41DOUD: Yep. I had my son Marcus there and we were only there like a few months after that before I came down to go to Alaska.
00:26:51SPRAGUE: And was your husband serving as well or?
00:26:54DOUD: He was in the Army as well, but then he got out before we went to Alaska. Okay.
00:26:59SPRAGUE: Okay. Ah, okay. What, ah, tell me about Alaska, going to Fort Rich?
00:27:10DOUD: Oh yeah, that was just absolutely beautiful. Of course, the weather, again, comparable to Wisconsin. We went in the summertime, so you have to like force yourself to go to sleep because it didn't get dark. It was that time of year uh, where, like in the winter, it was dark most of the time. So there's just that shift. And so it would just get like dusk and then the sun would like come back up. So trying to get used to that. But, um, like in the winter, it wouldn't get light until like 8:30, 9 o'clock in the morning and it would start to get dark around 3, 3:30. So that's a little hard to get used to that. Yeah, that was probably the biggest thing of getting used to. And then I don't really remember like the unit that I was in but we -- we went to the field there as well like a lot. And I remember sleeping like in a snowbank when it was like 20 below. I remember that we had to like build our little area and the first sergeant came and was looking for my area because I had it so good, he didn't even know it was there. [Laugh]
00:28:23SPRAGUE: Nice.
00:28:24DOUD: Yeah.
00:28:25SPRAGUE: So, you mentioned pre-interview that the unit at Fort Rich was a TO&E unit.
00:28:32DOUD: I think so, yeah.
00:28:33SPRAGUE: And maybe the one in Oklahoma was a TDA [Table of Distribution and Allowances] unit?
00:28:35DOUD: Yep, yep.
00:28:38SPRAGUE: Property book unit.
00:28:40DOUD: Yep.
00:28:41SPRAGUE: At this point, were you in route or about -- had you made E-5, were you?
00:28:46DOUD: Yeah, I made my, because I went to the board at Fort Sill and so then when I got to Alaska I made my E-5. And then along the way there then I had my daughter. So my daughter was born up there on Elmendorf Air Force Base and we just took a trip up there and did some remake pics from for her 30th birthday, her golden birthday. We went up there and found our old house on Fort Richardson. And took some pictures from when I was holding her when she was a baby. So that was pretty bittersweet because that literally just happened like a couple months ago.
00:29:26SPRAGUE: Wow.
00:29:27DOUD: Yeah.
00:29:28SPRAGUE: So it seems like strong ties to Alaska, Elmendorf --
00:29:34DOUD: Yeah.
00:29:35SPRAGUE: -- and the family.
00:29:37DOUD: It's all like one post now, per se. It's called like a joint -- joint force something. Instead of Fort Rich and Elmendorf being separate and I remember there being a long road connecting them and watching out for moose because the trees almost came all the way up to the road. Well now it's like all clear, it's all really, really open. So there were some things that were like the same, like the houses were there but remodeled and then some things were entirely different like that. So it was kind of just riding around posts, looking at some new areas, and looking where I used to work. You know, that was a lot of fun.
00:30:20SPRAGUE: So what, like on a daily basis, what did you do at Fort Rich?
00:30:26DOUD: Oh, yeah, we, well, they put me in the arms room, so I was in charge of all the weapons and making sure all the maintenance and everything was good on those. Constant sensitive item inventory. We had to do that every month, was in-charge of like all like barracks, furniture. I mean, anything you can think of, any kind of supply we were responsible for within our unit, so it was inventories, turning things in, sometimes lateral transfers that needed to happen. And then support for the MTO units also, so we did like a little bit of everything.
00:31:04SPRAGUE: I've got to ask, do you feel that there was ever any discrimination against you as a woman serving, or?
00:31:13DOUD: Um. I --
00:31:15SPRAGUE: That you care to mention.
00:31:17DOUD: I would say that I was approached by somebody. I will also say that I promptly put him in his place. So that's that.
00:31:27SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:31:28DOUD: Yeah.
00:31:29SPRAGUE: I've got to ask that question. So, okay, ah, so do you happen to remember which TO&E [Table of Organization and Equipment] unit that was in support of or as organic as part of the --
00:31:48DOUD: I don't remember.
00:31:49SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:31:51DOUD: Yeah.
00:31:51SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:31:52DOUD: Thirty-some years, you know, so, its kind of hard to remember.
00:31:53SPRAGUE: Yeah, no. We asked that question because we're trying to figure out where the person might have been. And the historians will ask. They'll go, well, where was she?
00:32:05DOUD: Yeah. Its just on Fort Rich at the --
00:32:07SPRAGUE: Yep. Were there anybody, especially at this unit, that you remember who was a mentor to you?
00:32:14DOUD: There was a Deidree Johnson. Was that her name? Deidree Johnson? Maybe that wasn't her last name. It was Deidree something. She was a really good E-7. I remember that. And was really, really supportive. Just taught, taught us and communicated with our team. If you want to call it like that, I wouldn't say squad, but within our section. We just had, she was a really good leader. I remember that much.
00:32:47SPRAGUE: Did you find -- drawing lessons from her or?
00:32:49DOUD: Just -- just learning how to do proper forms. How to kind of like forecast with ammo you know things like that for going to the range and making sure we were like ahead -- ahead of the ball game then nothing like getting there like well you didn't request this ammo type thing, you know. So she would -- she was really good at like just scheduling, like looking at things or writing things down so we could physically see things on a calendar like, okay, this is the time we need for this, so we gotta do it by this date. And it kind of was like, just kind of prepared your mind instead of just like, oh, let's go do this. We'd have to do a lot of pre-planning.
00:33:33SPRAGUE: Uh, what did you do in your downtime?
00:33:36DOUD: Well, we did some hiking, just kind of visiting different areas around Alaska. I didn't get to get everywhere or go everywhere that I wanted to go. Um, but we were able to kind of just take in a lot of the nature and things like that. My husband had gone deep-sea fishing, you know, caught some halibut and red snapper and all that good stuff, but yeah, so. Just a little bit of touring around the area, some of Alaska, not as much as I wanted.
00:34:13SPRAGUE: What were some of the -- was there any particular experience that you remember while serving in that unit that sticks out in your head?
00:34:20DOUD: Just when, well, I always loved going to the range. So even in the winter, that was one of my favorite things about being in the military was going to range. [Laugh] Loved that. It might have been Korea, I had gotten a 40 out of 40. Thirty-nines out of forty. So I was always like, I was pretty good, yeah.
00:34:42SPRAGUE: Wow, so sharpshooter or --
00:34:45DOUD: Expert.
00:34:46SPRAGUE: Expert
00:34:46DOUD: Expert.
00:34:48SPRAGUE: Nice. Gotta respect that.
00:34:51DOUD: Yeah.
00:34:52SPRAGUE: Ah, M1A2s or --
00:34:54DOUD: Well, we had that -- they were just changing from the A1s to the A2s at that time. Okay. And I remember, like the old M16s, the hand guards were kind of like a triangle. And I always thought it'd sit better on your hand, flatter. Then they changed them round and I didn't care for that. But so there were what, eight differences, we're supposed to be able to name all of them. I don't think I could do that. I can name some. You know the front post, the front sight post is square versus round. The hand guards were different. It came with a built-in, what do you call it? Blank adapter? Not a blank adapter. The --
00:35:34SPRAGUE: Flash suppressor?
00:35:35DOUD: Not a -- well, the flash suppressor. What is it called? When it would kick the bullets out.
00:35:39SPRAGUE: Oh, an ejector.
00:35:41DOUD: Yeah.
00:35:41SPRAGUE: There's a yeah piece that comes --
00:35:44DOUD: You could put inside it would fit inside and it would -- brass deflector.
00:35:48SPRAGUE: Brass deflector.
00:35:50DOUD: The -- the new ones came with the brass deflector like built in and the buttstock was made of a different material and there was a couple other things but those are the ones I remember.
00:35:59SPRAGUE: Interesting. So it sounds like to me like you were really into the arms room for lack of a better arm sergeant or issuing sergeant.
00:36:10DOUD: The armor. Yeah.
00:36:11SPRAGUE: What were some of the more, you know, you had to have had some interesting experiences there where people are like, oh we lost our weapon.
00:36:21DOUD: Yeah, we never we never had that where everyone -- anyone had lost it because you know, you stop immediately to start looking for those things So luckily we never have that and people were pretty good about cleaning. Clean their weapons, you know and I would inspect them because ultimately those are like my responsibility. So just making sure they had all supplies to do so but checking their weapons really good when they return them. Cuz I'm like you want to get it back clean, don't you -- you want it clean? So then clean it
00:36:53SPRAGUE: You're bringing back memories.
00:36:56DOUD: CLP. CLP.
00:36:57SPRAGUE: Yep, yep. Did you deal with any racial discrimination or anything like that?
00:37:05DOUD: Yes, yes.
00:37:07SPRAGUE: Tell me what you're willing to tell me about.
00:37:09DOUD: I remember being in, I think it was in Korea, and like on my off time I may have had like some maybe a barrette or something and somebody started squawking, you know, just saying some racial slurs and things like that. And I don't think I knew at that time about like equal opportunity or who to talk to. And we were on our off time, it wasn't like we were uniform, so I didn't really know any better, but -- I probably could have said something or found out where he was, because it was some real derogatory words that I won't share, you know. But again, I didn't know who to tell. So I'm thankful that things have changed in a way that we have a voice. So I think that that's a good thing, but it wasn't always so.
00:38:08SPRAGUE: Okay, anything else you'd like to share about Fort Rich?
00:38:18DOUD: I just remember we would do PT, physical training, outside. We would run outside when it was 29 below. If it was 30 below, then we could go inside. But most of the time, it was like 29 or less. So I remember having to be a supply sergeant and providing the little rubber things with the spikes to go on people's shoes for running. If they chose to have that and then we would have like our ski masks or baklavas when we were running. And I remember like there was just like these main roads that all the companies ran down and so we would be in formation and running and you'd see another unit coming your way and it looked like a train because everyone's breathing the same. [Simulates breathing] And so it just looked like these puffs of smoke, like it looked like a train coming when it would go past. And I was thinking that must be what we look like, you know? And at the end of those runs, like our baklavas would be filled with frost. The guys would have frost in their mustaches. You would have a frost on your eyelashes and stuff. So yeah, that was probably one of the hardest parts or things that I didn't care for, because it was cold. I don't want to be cold. But they said, run faster if you want to warm up. So I guess you've got to train. If it ain't raining, it ain't training.
00:39:46SPRAGUE: So I have to ask, were you in standard issue Army PT's, the sweats?
00:39:51DOUD: Mm, hum.
00:39:52SPRAGUE: Were you authorized, did you have stuff underneath them, or was it just the sweats?
00:39:56DOUD: I think you could wear whatever you wanted underneath as long as your outside of your uniform was dress right, dress with what everyone else had on or what the uniform called for. Sometimes we would ground our sweaters to go run, just depended on what the first sergeant or platoon sergeant put out for that day.
00:40:16SPRAGUE: What was it like -- what was the experience like running in 29 below zero weather?
00:40:23DOUD: It's hard. Everyone's PT test, like they would drop because of the, just because of that cold, cold air. I remember we had got a first class from Virginia and I think she was in communications or something and she said, I have never ran this slow on a PT test ever. And it was like her slowest time. You might as well just add two minutes onto your time because the air was so cold like in the winter. I think they may have tried to time it where people were taking their tests when it wasn't so cold. But that didn't happen sometimes. And I mean, you just kind of eventually got used to it.
00:41:05SPRAGUE: You know was the TLE for the unit aligned with the cold like what you were issuing the the soldiers was --
00:41:12DOUD: Like through CIF [Central Issue Facility]?
00:41:14SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:41:15DOUD: Well yeah, you'd have to get all that little extra -extra gear. They had like mukluks even there. And then the white things that would go over like your RUC to be camouflaged in the snow type stuff, you know? Yeah.
00:41:31SPRAGUE: And you were, how long at Fort Rich?
00:41:33DOUD: Three years.
00:41:34SPRAGUE: Three years? Okay. And then, help me out with this. I have you next going to Fort Knox?
00:41:40DOUD: Yes. Fort Knox.
00:41:41SPRAGUE: Tell me about that, going to Fort Knox.
00:41:44DOUD: Fort Knox was, I think I came down on orders for that too. And so I didn't mind that I went because my ex-husband now was from Cincinnati and it was only like a couple hours away. So we had our son and daughter. So we were able to go to Cincinnati like on the weekends and see the grandparents. So that worked out good. And then I was in like a, it was like a TDA unit. So we were in support of like the MPs kind of fell underneath us, the correctional facility that was there was with us. There were like several different units that were part of our organization, but I don't remember a whole lot. I do remember having two buildings and getting rid of all the furniture in one of them for whatever reason. So that was a huge undertaking being supply, but accountability, you know, we just did it because I knew how, you know. So just helping in that regard, like I was downsizing, if that's a good word.
00:43:01SPRAGUE: So were you in route making -- in route to E-6 at this point or?
00:43:03DOUD: Yes. I think, did I make my E-6 there? -- no. No, I didn't make yet because I went to BNOC [Basic Noncommissioned Officer Course] when I was stationed at Fort Knox.
00:43:20SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:43:20DOUD: So I had gone back over to Virginia for BNOC and then I didn't make my six until I got to Hawaii.
00:43:28SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:43:28DOUD: And Fort Knox was only, I was only there two years. It wasn't a very, very long assignment.
00:43:33SPRAGUE: Okay, I have to ask this question. Did the stress of serving affect what happened with your ex-husband or -- was that an impact?
00:43:46DOUD: Yeah, that's a whole another ball of wax, but yeah, after I was in Hawaii and when we came, when we left there, I mean, of all the places though, that was like my favorite because of the beauty and I was actually a retention NCO when I was at Fort Knox. So when it came time to like reenlist, the battalion guy said, where do you want to go? So I pretty much kind of could have picked anywhere and I always wanted to go there, So, I picked Hawaii.
00:44:18SPRAGUE: Nice.
00:44:19DOUD: Came with a price though because I was in an infantry brigade. [Laugh] So yeah.
00:44:24SPRAGUE: That'll do it.
00:44:25DOUD: Yes it will.
00:44:26SPRAGUE: So you're a retention NCO at Knox, before we move on to Hawaii.
00:44:31DOUD: Um-hum
00:44:31SPRAGUE: Tell me, I think I know what that job does, but tell me a little bit about what that role is.
00:44:38DOUD: So underneath the battalion, again we had like different companies that fall underneath that battalion but I don't remember what they are and then they made me the retention person so I had to have -- had to go up to this main office somewhere and get every soldier that was in our company find out like there were these cards and it was so incomplete that I had to go there it took me days to get all their information into these cards. So that we could see when their ETS [Expiration Term of Service] was, because that's when you would contact them, you know, like a few months prior to their ETS, say hey, have you changed your mind, or you think about this, or maybe you could get a bonus, or maybe could get what assignment you wanted if we just talked to, you know the battalion sergeant, and so I had to kind of fix, fix the box, so to speak, because it was just a mess, it was a mess. And so I got it all, like, nice and neat, and then you were able to tell by tabs who was coming up for enlistment or reenlistment. So that worked out pretty good. And we always made our quota. And maybe I didn't have anybody that month that was due to reenlist, but the other guy may have had seven, and maybe he got four of them, which you could give one to somebody. It's almost like a collective. You make the quota for the collective group. So, and then same with me. One time I had got three people and somebody didn't have any so he can kind of, so as long as it looks collectively like we're getting people to stay.
00:46:15SPRAGUE: Was the retention NCO your primary duty or a secondary duty?
00:46:20DOUD: That's a secondary duty.
00:46:21SPRAGUE: Secondary.
00:46:23DOUD: Yep, I was still supply.
00:46:26SPRAGUE: Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:27SPRAGUE: Yeah. Additional duty. Yeah. Did you have anyone at Knox that was a good mentor for you?
00:46:32DOUD: I would say my first sergeant there was pretty good. I liked him. He was, you know, he was just direct. You know, we would say let's do this, let's do this. And you know we would just execute. He wasn't, uh, I don't know, he was a good leader. I just really cared for his leadership style. The three types of leadership is like, delegative, and then participative, and authoritative, and I think he was participative, which is kind of somewhere in the middle. He would ask our opinions on something, how we should do something or complete things, and we always just made sure it happened. He took care of us, we took care him. He was good.
00:47:15SPRAGUE: At this point, you're an E-5 and you go to BNOC in Virginia while you're at Knox?
00:47:25DOUD: Yes.
00:47:26SPRAGUE: Okay. And what were you thinking about the Army at that time? What are you thinking?
00:47:32DOUD: Um, I knew that we'd had to be there for that long to, to learn. There was a lot of things to learn in BNOC. If I, I can't name anything off the top of my head, but I just remember thinking, definitely a course you need to take prior to getting promoted. Um, learning how to march people, learning how to act in a, like a hostile environment. All those little extra things that kind of come along with being a leader and being able to handle it under pressure.
00:48:07SPRAGUE: And where was BNOC in Virginia?
00:48:09DOUD: Fort Lee.
00:48:10SPRAGUE: Fort Lee, okay. Anything else you want to cover while we're talking about Knox? Things you did there in your spare time.
00:48:21DOUD: I had a chance to go to like Churchill Downs. I think, the ah, one of our sergeants had been there a while, had worked like security there. And so I didn't really get to go in and see the race, but I could kind of see the area for like the Kentucky Derby. And yeah, and then also, who makes, is it the whiskey or bourbon, that Tennessee maker's mark?
00:48:47SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:48:48DOUD: I think we got to go to that thing and dunk a bottle and have the with the red wax on there.
00:48:54SPRAGUE: Yep.
00:48:55DOUD: I think I did that with a group of people but I don't remember what I did with the bottle. [Laugh] Probably gave it to somebody, yeah.
00:49:04SPRAGUE: Nice. Oh, anything else on Knox? So you had mentioned you got to choose going to Hawaii.
00:49:15DOUD: Yeah.
00:49:16SPRAGUE: Where did you wind up in Hawaii?
00:49:18DOUD: I was at Fort -- Schofield Barracks, so right away I got into an infantry brigade, and I had to go and clean-up the arms room, because it was a mess, and the supply room, we had all this extra equipment laying around, I was, I couldn't believe it. I remember also being at our motor pool and opening up the CONEX, and just stuff falling out of there and I -- I was like, where do I start? I didn't even know where to begin. And I said, well, the most major thing is the arms room because it's sensitive items. So I cleaned that up, got the inventories underway, had the locks and keys and the register because you have to have every key and every lock on a, what was the form, 5515 or 581, one of those forms. For that, kind of got that in order and then I migrated my way over to some of the supplies that were just kind of sitting around and got a lot of that stuff turned in. Just stuff sitting on the books that we didn't need. Old typewriters, old ALPS printers, the kind with the little holes on the side, like that kind of stuff. Yeah, just getting rid of and turning in a whole lot of equipment, doing some lateral transfers of things that didn't need to be in our unit anymore, and sending them to a different unit. A lot of clean-up --
00:50:49SPRAGUE: Yeah.
00:50:50DOUD: -- in Hawaii, yeah, a lot of cleanup.
00:50:52SPRAGUE: This sounds like a recurring theme to me.
00:50:54DOUD: Yeah, it really, really was. It really was, yeah. And it's like you like things a certain way and they are supposed to be a certain way per whatever regulation you have. And so that's what needed to get done and then that's why I did.
00:51:11SPRAGUE: Wow, so that was, you had mentioned pre-interview that was at the brigade level, or?
00:51:17DOUD: Yeah.
00:51:18SPRAGUE: Okay. So was that, do you remember?
00:51:20DOUD: 25th, is that 25th ID?
00:51:22SPRAGUE: 25th ID.
00:51:24DOUD: 25th ID
00:51:24SPRAGUE: So was it 1st brigade, 2d brigade, 3d brigade?
00:51:26DOUD: I don't remember.
00:51:27SPRAGUE: Okay, gotta ask.
00:51:28DOUD: Yeah, I was in C Quad if that makes any sense.
00:51:30SPRAGUE: C Quad.
00:51:30DOUD: Yeah.
00:51:31SPRAGUE: That'll put us on the location.
00:51:32DOUD: We had 1st of the 121st was part of our battalion, I think
00:51:38SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:51:38DOUD: Yeah.
00:51:39SPRAGUE: Got it.
00:51:40DOUD: First of the 115th, something like I think.
00:51:44SPRAGUE: Those were the battalions under that brigade, maybe.
00:51:46DOUD: Yeah.
00:51:47SPRAGUE: Maybe. Okay.
00:51:48SPRAGUE: Yep. Okay. That might put us somewhere. And that would have been, when was this about, roughly?
00:51:53DOUD: This was 1999 to 2000 -- to 2002? Yeah.
00:52:08SPRAGUE: Yep, I think you're right. [Laugh]
00:52:10DOUD: Yeah. [Laugh] Something like that.
00:52:11SPRAGUE: I'm gonna guess.
00:52:12DOUD: Yeah.
00:52:13SPRAGUE: You're gonna straighten me out, okay. Um, so, ah, you were in Hawaii on September 11th?
00:52:22DOUD: Yes, I was, yep.
00:52:23SPRAGUE: Tell me about that.
00:52:24DOUD: Well I had my third child there so my son was born and I remember because of the time difference, you know, I think it was probably something like one or two in the morning when that happened from where we were and I remembered my husband coming up there saying something like, get up, get out, they just bombed the Twin Towers. And then, but I was asleep so then he left. And I'm thinking that I'm dreaming. And all of a sudden my phone rang and my eyes just opened up and I'm like, what did he just say? Did I hear him correctly? And it was like our Master Sergeant Ortiz had called and said, everyone report to base right now, we are under attack. And what normally was a 10-to-15-minute ride from where I was to get to post, it took us like probably over two hours. Because they were checking every car at the gate, we tried to go around a different way, and it was just pandemonium. I remember that much. And then we all just had to be ready, you know? It's like, get your gear, report to base, and it kind of like the hurry up and wait and figuring out who was gonna go where and who was going to do what. But yeah, I remember, I remembered that. Very clear.
00:53:46SPRAGUE: And that was at Schofield Barracks.
00:53:49DOUD: Um-hum.
00:53:50SPRAGUE: Do you have like people that serve post 9-11 versus pre-9-11 have this picture in their head about what the military was before and what it was after? Do you that or is that kind of a--
00:54:05DOUD: No, the only thing that I can say is that after Hawaii, I decided, so it was like roughly like 12, 13 years, I decide to join the Guard because I felt like I couldn't be a mom full time too. So there was that, that was a thing for me. And I remember when I did join the Guard. It was very, very different from active duty, you know, they were kind of just -- not as strict as I was used to, but then after that happened, I think they really, really stepped up, the unit that I was in really stepped up and did the things that they were supposed to do, as well as me teaching all of the E-4s and everything, how to do the supply forms and how to do inventories, how to issue equipment. They didn't really know because they were just like weekend warriors, so they didn't really learn how to do that stuff, but they really thirsted for knowledge and wanted to learn and wanted to know. So I had to teach them how to go to CIF, how to get equipment, how issue things, how to prep the room for that. I took a lot of pride in that.
00:55:32SPRAGUE: Yeah, and you should. So that's the unit in Rhinelander, later in the Guard?
00:55:36DOUD: Yeah, Rhineland and Tomahawk.
00:55:38SPRAGUE: And Tomahawk. Okay. Yep, so let's finish off Schofield first, real quick.
00:55:45DOUD: Okay.
00:55:45SPRAGUE: And then jump ahead. But what ah, what ah, post 9-11, what was, you know, what, was there anything else that you did at Schofield Barracks that?
00:56:00DOUD: I remember that after that happened, like, there were a lot, like they closed posts. Remember, posts used to be just open, anybody could come and go. And after that, they changed it. So there was an office there that helped do, like all the badges for people. So there this whole new process of getting somebody's ID, checking, making sure their background checks were good. Looking at how the cement pillar things were placed at the gate so people just couldn't drive through. So all those different protocols they had to like implement and make those, I guess, new again type thing. I remember that specifically. Yeah.
00:56:51SPRAGUE: And you had made staff sergeant at this point at Schofield?
00:56:59DOUD: Yeah.
00:57:00SPRAGUE: Okay. And what other -- you decide to -- you come off active duty.
00:57:11DOUD: Um-hum.
00:57:13SPRAGUE: And you had mentioned that you had done that because you wanted to be a mother.
00:57:17DOUD: Yeah, a little bit more. I know sometimes I wasn't even seeing my kids because I'd be gone so early in the morning and then getting home super late, you know. I just needed a little bit better balance.
00:57:32SPRAGUE: Okay, so at that point you've got, while you're on active duty, you have 13 years of service, or?
00:57:39DOUD: Yeah, give or take.
00:57:41SPRAGUE: Okay. Like that, yeah. And was your thinking at the time, I'm going to still go for retirement or?
00:57:46DOUD: Um-hum.
00:57:46SPRAGUE: Okay.
00:57:47DOUD: Yeah, that's why I wanted to join the Guard until I hit my 20.
00:57:52SPRAGUE: Yeah. Okay, I'm just trying to understand, and yeah, so you come off active duty. What was, do you have any particular memories from Schofield when you came off of active duty?
00:58:10DOUD: Yeah. So I reenlisted, like I went into the Guard at the USS Arizona, so that was pretty memorable to do that there.
00:58:19SPRAGUE: Wow.
00:58:20DOUD: Yeah. To come off and then go that way. And then when I got to the unit, I remember feeling like a little, I don't know why, I just felt like a little nervous because it's a new place, it's new environment. And when I got there, everybody's like calling each other by like their first names and I was like, What is this, you know? And, but nobody did that with me because I wouldn't let them. You know, I'm like, that's, you don't call me by my first name. You know I earned this rank and you can call me by my rank and my last name. And they were like, oh, oh. Scared of her. [Laugh] Scared of her. But I was just strict that way, you know, coming out of active duty, you know, so it's a little bit different environment. But yeah, when it came down to it and things, you know when they hit the fan, these guys were, they were good. They did what they're supposed to do. They were good.
00:59:17SPRAGUE: And this would have been the 724th.
00:59:21DOUD: Yeah, 724, mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:59:24SPRAGUE: And you had said on a Rhinelander, Tomahawk, and maybe Hayward, maybe?
00:59:30DOUD: Yeah, I think the whole unit kind of fell underneath. Like Hayward was like the home unit. I think there was also a company up in Superior. And I think Ashland had like the quarry. I don't even know if that was like really part of us. But, yeah, and then the engineers, you know. So, yeah.
00:59:58SPRAGUE: And which Guard post -- Guard location did you serve out of? Or was it multiples of different?
01:00:07DOUD: Yeah, I went to several different places because I think after, well so we went as 724, we went to Iraq and so it was like under a, you know, the battalion, three companies and I was part of like Charlie Company. But then I had to go, once we got all together then we had to go to our little home base so then I actually fell under the HHC [Headquarters and Headquarters Company], like the headquarters and the supply. Um.
01:00:34SPRAGUE: Okay. So I have to ask, you come back, you come off of active duty, you're a drilling guardsman or guardswoman at one of those posts. What do you do on the civilian side? How does that work?
01:00:50DOUD: Oh, well, I worked at the bank for seven years, you know, and I also worked at Great Lakes. And they were, I think, per law, they had to cater and understand that if you had drill, you might have had to take a day off to go and do that, but they were really supportive of it. So there was no issues there.
01:01:12SPRAGUE: Good. So you were leading into it here a little bit, but you also mentioned during the pre-interview that we want to be careful about this. What can you tell me about mobilization for Iraq, or what are you willing to talk about? Um, well--
01:01:30DOUD: Um, well -- like I said, I remember the whole team or the whole unit really, really stepping up and doing what they had to do because when I first got there, it just didn't seem strict, I guess, for lack of a better word. It just seemed a little laid back. But when that time happened, everyone did what they were supposed to do. Everyone just kind of stepped up and got into that mode because we knew what was to happen. Um, And there was a lot of like, you know, you go through the hurry-up and wait and all those different things but there were different courses they had to take, there were just different supply missions we had to do. Everyone stepped up and played their part in that and I can appreciate that.
01:02:19SPRAGUE: And were you a little bit like, you had just come off active duty and now you're back on active duty.
01:02:28DOUD: Yeah, yeah, I was, you know I was angry. I was not happy. I was pissed, to put it nicely, like, what did I do? You know, I'm talking to the creator, like why? Why are you doing this to me? I just got, so I could be a mother of my kids and I'm gonna rip me away from them. And so, there's a lot of, dealt with a lot stuff with that, just a lot mental issues with that guilt. Things didn't go so well. You know, it was already hard being over there, and there was a lot of shit going on back home, too, that wasn't good. It wasn't good. I ended up divorced, and so I don't know if I always kind of tell that story. Like, the year over there was bad, or which was worse, that first year coming back, because I was not in a good mental state when we got back. It was, uh, that was a really hard, dark time for me.
01:03:34SPRAGUE: What can you tell people about the sacrifices that veterans make? Oh my gosh.
01:03:40DOUD: Oh, my gosh. I don't think you can explain that. I don t think you could put that into words. Um. It's putting everything, the mission, your comrades, putting all of that before anything. Putting your life on the line, you know. I mean, for the mission and for your fellow soldiers. It's a pretty big cloak to wear, you know. But would I do it again? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
01:04:24SPRAGUE: So, what does your pre-mob look like, or you mobilized, or what was your ramp up?
01:04:32DOUD: Well, like before we left, that was one of the things, is like making sure everybody had like all their equipment. We had, I remember going to CIF and having to get a whole bunch of different things and making sure we had like different parts for like vehicles. And a lot of it was kind of just figuring it out after we got over there, working like the higher level, like the S4, the officers kind of working that supply chain. So we did have some challenges when we were over there, but we were there to build a base camp and we did.
01:05:04SPRAGUE: Where did you end up deploying to?
01:05:07DOUD: Well, we were on Nasiriyah, which is like Tallil Air Force Base there. And then I believe when we were getting ready to come back, we up by Balad.
01:05:23SPRAGUE: So you moved?
01:05:25DOUD: Yeah, just before we were getting ready to come home.
01:05:29SPRAGUE: Okay. And this sounds like it'd be very early, Operation Iraqi Freedom?
01:05:36DOUD: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
01:05:37SPRAGUE: And, ah, what was, first of all, when you arrived in theater, what were your impressions?
01:05:44DOUD: Huh, I remember we had like all our gear. So you've got like the -- the vest and all your other stuff and you got your weapon and Kevlar and everything is all whatever and I remember. It seems like when we got there I want to say like me like Kuwait or something and it was like three in the morning and I remember it being super hot and I'm like holy shit, I'm like, this is, it's three in the morning. I can only imagine what high noon looks like or what that feels like. And so, hydrate, hydrate, hydrate. Yeah. So we drank a lot of water over there because I could get up to 130, 140 degrees midday. They had to change their work schedule because it was too hot, it was just scary during the day, too hot for people to be working. So they would take a shift where we would more like -- their shifts would change from, maybe they worked more in the evening time, just because of the weather where we would be like indoors and in shade when it was like 130 degrees outside. Yeah. So I don't do heat. I don't like it. [Laugh]
01:07:14SPRAGUE: Anything comparable to Wisconsin?
01:07:19DOUD: Over there?
01:07:20SPRAGUE: Yeah.
01:07:21DOUD: You might get a little frost on the vehicles in the morning. Believe it or not, for being desert, people just think deserts are, you know, they don't think the desert gets cold, but it would, you know. During the winter month.
01:07:37SPRAGUE: What was the, ah, was the 724th's mission while you were there?
01:07:43DOUD: To build a base camp for others to come into. So we had like a supply yard. They even had like, a little chaplain. They had like two story building for like the admin office and like the high brass kind of stuff. And then we had, of course, tent city, but there were other buildings and stuff that we kind of set up and yeah, we built a basecamp.
01:08:09SPRAGUE: Did you -- you build one or did you move around and build base camps for people?
01:08:13DOUD: We just built the one, but there were other missions that a lot of the engineers may have went on. We went on and did like a few little supply runs. We were actually out in Nazaré, like working with the local people there, which can make you kind of nervous. You know, you don't know what to expect. You know this little kid there is smiling in your face and he might have a suicide bomb underneath him. You don't, so you're kind of always on alert. You know you're just. Keeping your eye out and just keeping an eye on things all the time, making sure everyone's safe. But I remember being out there getting, I don't remember what type of supplies we were getting if it was like maybe like plywood or just any type of construction material we were purchasing. Yeah, so we met with some local vendors. I don't know how our higher-ups knew about them, but they were like the cool guys, you know? Like they were the okay ones to work with. So I remember being outside the wire and still being like a little bit nervous, you know? You just don't feel safe, you know?
01:09:28SPRAGUE: So, did you have interpreters?
01:09:32DOUD: I don't remember. I think there was one guy that, he had a wicked accent, very, very heavy accent, but he did speak English. So I remember being in the room for that encounter. But most of the time it was just like, drive here, go get this, and then come back. So, yeah.
01:09:49SPRAGUE: And you had to provide your own security or was there additional security?
01:09:54DOUD: I don't remember there being additional security. I remember there being joint forces though. We had like the Italians were there and there were some, I think, we did have some Koreans there. And maybe the Brits, I think, were there. I saw I remember seeing a few of those.
01:10:13SPRAGUE: Okay, and were you in Humvees? Hard shell, soft shell?
01:10:21DOUD: Yeah, we had a lot of different vehicles, because I drove like an LMTV, so it's like the bigger truck, but I also drove Humvees to get from here, there, and everywhere if I had to take the property book officer to a different side of post or somewhere, I drove a Humvee. But I remember that getting overheated too, because of the heat, so we needed a little more coolant, you know, or just had to like let it cool down. So, yeah.
01:10:51SPRAGUE: What was your -- what did you do your time off at your -- at your base did you have any?
01:10:59DOUD: We did, but you couldn't really go anywhere. You could maybe walk to the PX or just kind of walk around the base camp.
01:11:10SPRAGUE: How did you—what was it like communicating with home back to your family?
01:11:19DOUD: That was really difficult because when we first got there, you had to go to the other side of post where there was like phones and everyone, you know, you'd got there and you're in line forever and you got like two or three minutes to just call and say hi. Eventually, there was one guy that had like a sat phone, like a great big brick phone and he would call home from time to time. I don't know, that was pretty costly. Eventually, we did have like a computer lab type thing where people could communicate via email. So we did have that in place after a while. But I don't remember the logistical side of that, but kudos. That came in handy.
01:12:07SPRAGUE: What were some of the experiences you didn't like?
01:12:11DOUD: The heat and then like camel spiders. I don't do spiders. I don't do spiders and those things are like scary. Yeah. And I think they were like scorpions. Somebody had caught like some kind of lizard, I think, one time. But yeah, I just, I don't know, spiders.
01:12:32SPRAGUE: Any pets while you were there? Did the unit have any pets?
01:12:38DOUD: Well, they're like, I think dogs just kind of run free over there and they tried to keep one, but they got in trouble. Like, no, you gotta give it back, get rid of it. Yeah.
01:12:53SPRAGUE: What, do you have any moments there that you were like, wow, that was risky or I don't want to do that again?
01:13:03DOUD: Yeah, there was like when the bombs would go off, you could feel the earth shake and you didn't know if it was going to hit you. I remember, I think it was a group of Italians that got bombed. And I want to say we saw the trailer of them come back. So, yeah.
01:13:29SPRAGUE: Okay I'm curious something about the timing here. Did they do a stop-loss while you were there, or was that something else?
01:13:43SPRAGUE: I don't recall that. You don't think. Okay. Okay. So I have to ask, what was it like being away from your family?
01:13:54DOUD: That was the worst year of my life, that one and then the first year back.
01:14:02SPRAGUE: Okay, tell us about anything else that you are okay with sharing.
01:14:09DOUD: Mm. Well, I don't have any regrets, you know. I think back to when I was like just, you know, like 19 and being in awe of people and doing that and then like maturing along the way and learning to do my job, learning to it well, teaching others, because I didn't have the best mentors the entire time. I don't want to throw shade at anybody. But I remember thinking, if I have soldiers, I will teach them better than I was taught. So there's that and then just thinking as you know further down the road eventually retiring and yeah, because I retired out of Fort McCoy. I had got an E-7 position there and retired and you know I just was looking back thinking wow you know like I did a lot I did a lot.
01:15:05SPRAGUE: So tell me about, before we get to E-7 in Fort McCoy, ah, tell me about, did you have any interaction with the musicians at Tallil? Jason Moon, maybe?
01:15:25DOUD: Oh, Jason Moon. That's yeah he's a very, very good friend of mine. We actually, he actually put me on one of his CDs. I sang a song called Bullet Dress from Warrior Songs and I commend him for utilizing his skill that he has as an artist to gather these songs and put them in a form that have been used in VA clinics from what I understand to help people with their PTSD. So it's kind of like sharing that story or hearing someone else's story to kind of help you on your path. So, yeah.
01:16:07SPRAGUE: Wow. So help me out with this and correct me where I'm wrong. I have Jason Moon out of Charlie Company?
01:16:17DOUD: Yes.
01:16:17SPRAGUE: 724th. Ah, used a combination of humor and music to help keep morale from bottoming out.
01:16:25DOUD: Yeah. Yep.
01:16:27SPRAGUE: And then I did happen to, is it the Bullet Dress song?
01:16:33DOUD: Yes.
01:16:34SPRAGUE: Correct me, straight me out on that.
01:16:35SPRAGUE: Bullet dress.
01:16:36SPRAGUE: Bullet dress, very, very interesting. And you use Ojibwe words, of course, in there. And I'm sure it has a lot of meaning.
01:16:48DOUD: Yeah, so you will hear Animikii ikwe, which is my Indian woman, which means thunder woman, or as I was told, the storm is coming. So you'll hear those words in that song. And yeah, I just think that that is a really, really neat way to connect with people that may not want to open up just by talking, but maybe through listening, they'd be a little more inclined to maybe share what they're going through.
01:17:23SPRAGUE: And I happen to listen to that. Do you need some water or?
01:17:27DOUD: I have it here. Excuse me. Okay.
01:17:39SPRAGUE: And I happened to listen to that song.
01:17:43DOUD: Oh.
01:17:44SPRAGUE: Which incidentally will probably try to get a copy for the museum, purchase one, and make it available here at the museum
01:17:55DOUD: Oh, okay.
01:17:56SPRAGUE: Because it's part of your story, absolutely.
01:18:00DOUD: Yeah.
01:18:00SPRAGUE: And it's a Bullet Dress song, Melissa and the Mambo Surfers?
01:18:05DOUD: Yeah, the Mamba Surfers. Yeah.
01:18:08SPRAGUE: Correctly attributed. Um, yeah, so if you're okay with talking about this a little bit about your song, being aware of what you're talking about, or me being aware of it, talking about changing your name?
01:18:25DOUD: Yeah, so it was kind of about me getting my Indian name. So it was almost like my name was Melissa. But after going through all of that, I changed it to -- get my Shinabe, or Nishinabe is like original people, our Ojibwe name. So that's what I mean by that. It's like it really helped having that. Having that will, it'll change you. It'll kind of give you this sense of identity, feeling this strength of who you really are, what your name means, how you will carry yourself for the rest of your days, just knowing that's tattooed on your spirit. And so when I say that, it just makes me feel more powerful, and that I'm a survivor, and that will get through anything to our just to continue to be here. So, yeah.
01:19:30SPRAGUE: Couple more of the lyrics, if you'll indulge me. Things I never will tell. I will never tell, sorry.
01:19:37DOUD: Yeah. There's just, you know, sometimes people will just take some things to the grave with them, you know. Not anything too, too terrible, but just, sometimes we don't need to talk about absolutely everything.
01:19:56SPRAGUE: I understand. I think the song is so central to your service. I can ask you and you can tell me no, but I think it's important to consider some of your lyrics because they're that, I think, it's central. It's part of who you are. My medicine dress will be the healing of it.
01:20:20DOUD: Yes. So a jingle dress is a healing dress. And there's a story that goes with that of where it came from in Mille Lacs. Long story short, the dress is known to heal others. And so they are dresses made of shiny cones, normally. And when you dance, the cones will [Makes a jingle sound] make a noise as they jingle together, touch one another. There's a specific sound with that. And so with that being a healing dress, for me, knowing that I made this bullet dress, the jingles on there are M16 shells, and using my military uniform to incorporate that into culture, you'll find a lot of Native Americans will do that. They will incorporate their military experience into their regalia. And so, when I was in Hawaii, I remember thinking, you know a lot of people they had like their -- their Indian names sometimes they get them when they're babies and I wanted to make this dress, um. So it's kinda came as a dream to me and I just knew that I was going to make a veteran jingle dress and my jingles would be M-16 shells and so I acquired or obtained some of the brass you know, over length of time and was able to, ah. My uncle helped me core each and every single one of them, broke a lot of drill bits, and then I tied the sinew on there and then created this dress so that I could dance for others, I could help heal others, but it was my form of healing for myself to do that, to help me get through just day-to-day or just help me to get through life in general. So it's very, very powerful. And brings a lot of peace to me, knowing that I've danced in that a lot. I still continue to jingle-jest, dance to this day, and it's part of who I am.
01:22:30SPRAGUE: And tell me if I'm out of bounds here, but I'm not going to go too far here, but you have another lyric where you say, kind of cheatin' death, I am no shapeshifter.
01:22:40DOUD: Yeah.
01:22:41SPRAGUE: Can you tell me about that at all?
01:22:43DOUD: So, it's like I'm tired of cheatin' death, you know. It's like, I've been through many, many battles. You know, it was kinda like, you just wanna live your life normal, the best way that you can, and know how. And, like, shape-shifters are like, you know, somebody else helped me write the song. We needed, I think, a piece that rhymed in there. But, like somebody who will shift into, or morph into a different being or animal. You know those, those theories or those legends and stuff, those stories that are told, I think that it was just saying that I am who I am. I am, who I'll continue to be and I don't need to shape-shift to hide or do anything. It's just this is me and I'm going to continue to move forward in the best way I know how.
01:23:35SPRAGUE: Anything else you'd like to share on that?
01:23:39DOUD: Well, my dress has gotten a lot of attention. It is actually at the high ground right now, along with my other dress that I made is a POW/MIA-themed dress, and the jingles on there are dog tags. So they are currently at the High Ground on display with a traveling Native American display that came from the Smithsonian. And that has been there since April, and the last day will be July 6th. So taking advantage of that through my role through WDVA as the tribal veteran liaison, I wanted to showcase that display. I wanted showcase Native American culture. And so we are going to have a Native American tribal, Native American day, veteran day. At the high ground on June 25th for everyone to kind of share and read some of those stories about that and we're trying to get for all the tribes and bring their veterans over so we can just celebrate a day together. So hopefully that dress is being like a little beacon to call to arms I guess if you want to say. So we're working on, that's an initiative that I've got underway.
01:25:01SPRAGUE: Well, thanks for sharing that.
01:25:03DOUD: Yeah.
01:25:04SPRAGUE: I happen to know the High Grounds, of course, here in Wisconsin, the High Ground.
01:25:09DOUD: Neillsville.
01:25:10SPRAGUE: I was there, yeah, in west of Neillsville. I was when it was dedicated.
01:25:14DOUD: Oh, nice.
01:25:16SPRAGUE: Originally.
01:25:16DOUD: Yeah.
01:25:17SPRAGUE: And there were Native dancers that day, and yeah, pretty incredible experience.
01:25:23DOUD: Yeah.
01:25:23SPRAGUE: So yeah. And they've added more to it since then. Originally, yeah. It was more focused around Vietnam, and now,
01:25:32DOUD: Yeah.
01:25:35SPRAGUE: Yeah, oh, interesting. Well, thanks for sharing that.
01:25:38DOUD: Yeah.
01:25:40SPRAGUE: That was helpful. Going back to Iraq just a little bit and then finishing it up, what was it like being, ah, did you have any exposure to burn pits while you were there?
01:25:55DOUD: Mm-hmm.
01:25:56SPRAGUE: Do you think that ever had an effect on you or not?
01:25:59DOUD: Sure did. I'm a survivor of breast cancer because of that. Yep. So I found that out right when I took this job. Wasn't sure if WDVA would still want me knowing that I was tarnished, for lack of a better word, but I battled through that and I remember telling my supervisor that if there was ever another female veteran that went through this or would go through this, that I would be there for them, to help them through it, to help guide them to be there as a support system, and I've had to do that, unfortunately. But I'm still here, moving forward the best way I know how. It happened. I can't change that, so I just try to live my life one day at a time the best way I can know how.
01:27:00SPRAGUE: We do have a number of veterans that we interview who do have burn pit exposure. So, yeah. What was it like coming back to the United States?
01:27:17DOUD: That was really hard. You're so used to being in an environment like that over there to come back. You are, at least for me, I was not just mentally prepared. You're in this state of crisis, and then you're supposed to come home and have like a picnic. You know, there's a shift there. There's a migration that needs to happen, and it certainly doesn't happen overnight, or if at all. So, it was difficult that first year back. I was even suicidal. So other than being on different pills and medication, I didn't want that. I found other ways to cope and deal, sound therapy, music therapy, forest bathing, just different methods of these mind, body, spirit, zen things to just kind of help me get through. So that's been a big part of my shift back. Back home, you know. Like soul searching and just digging deep and finding out ways to just be healthy in my own way. So.
01:28:43SPRAGUE: I have to ask, did the Army have any kind of wind down or demobilization?
01:28:52DOUD: I think they did. But I also remember everybody just wanting to be done. You know, there was no, like, I don't wanna talk to anybody, I just wanna be done, I just want to go home. So there's that. So if there was, it wasn't extensive, or it was just kind of like, we just wanna get out of here. We just wanna done. So, but I know there's resources out there, it's just a matter of people, if they wanna tap into those, but, yeah, I think it was pretty short.
01:29:28SPRAGUE: Yeah. So did you fly back into Volk Field in Wisconsin or somewhere else?
01:29:32DOUD: Yeah, yeah, I think we flew into Volk. I think we landed in Maine first when we came back, but then, yeah. We landed in Volk Field.
01:29:44SPRAGUE: Were there families at Volk Field, or what was that like?
01:29:48DOUD: There were families there. My cousin was there, so I was able to see somebody. Yeah, it was good just to see all the people reuniting, the hugging, the tears, like people seeing maybe their son or daughter that they hadn't seen in a long time, you know, that kind of thing. So, it's like bittersweet, you knows, the happy, happy moments. Just being, knowing we came back and we're alive.
01:30:23SPRAGUE: Did, I'm assuming at that point you get to see the family, but then you, did you have to go through the process of everyone turning in their weapons? Or what was--
01:30:35DOUD: I think so. Don't they just have like the little parade and you know fire trucks and all that stuff? I don't -- I don't really remember. I don't remember any of that really. Yeah I'm sure we had to like -- I'm, sure we kept some of our -- our gear but then eventually would have to turn it maybe at next drill or something like that but I just remember being happy to be back.
01:31:03SPRAGUE: How about, I have to ask carefully, how about coming back to your tribal nation and your people? How did they behave towards you?
01:31:13DOUD: Oh, that was, you know, as Native Americans, we hold veterans in the highest regard. They come into a powwow first. They're like the, they're the recon, where it's like the first ones in, the last ones to leave, and it still kind of holds true that we consider our soldiers, our warriors, you know, we are, ogichidaa is the word, you know, a warrior. Ogichidaakwe for a woman, again, just held in high regard, and so I was very, very welcomed. Everyone's, you know, a lot of hugs and happiness, and we're glad you're home, we're glad you are safe. And I remember my uncle, the one, you know, my mom's brother, the reason why I joined, I remember him giving me the biggest hug and saying, I can sleep now.
01:32:09SPRAGUE: Wow.
01:32:11DOUD: He was worried. You're worried about people when they're over there, you know. He said, now I can sleep. So.
01:32:23SPRAGUE: So, uh, what are you okay with sharing in terms of coming back? And I know you had mentioned it was a really hard year for you.
01:32:33DOUD: Yeah, it was hard to adjust because when I got back, my marriage had fallen apart and so I was like raising three kids on my own and trying to deal with, you know, everything. That was really hard, that was really, really hard. Part of me knowing that I had these three little beings here and I was like ultimately responsible for taking care of them, you know, and so knowing that if I wasn't right I wouldn't be able to take care of them, too. So it was a process trying to, ah, I want to say just kind of like rope them back in because they were kind of they were a little wild. So I had to bring structure, you know, and teach chores, and build -- build our home, you know and our the way we do things. I had to like rebuild that but it went well, you know, my kids turned out okay. So I was thinking I must've done something right. Yeah, but there was an adjustment and it was not easy. I deal, to this day, with a lot of guilt. I carry guilt with me for having left them. Yeah, I, things happened because I left. That was my thinking. You know, and some of the, it's not your fault, it's your fault. Well, yeah, yeah it is, yes it is. I'm the one that left. And that's why things crumble or that's what things the way they are and stuff like that. But, so I had to just kind of like shift that, and even though people say, well it's not your fault, it's your fault. Well, I still carry that. But I still look at, I did what I had do. That doesn't make me feel any better when it comes to them, you know. Yeah, so there's guilt to this day. Doesn't go away.
01:35:00SPRAGUE: How about, ah, support structure?
01:35:07DOUD: Had that though, still have that to this day. So very, very thankful for that. We have a lot of resources back home on the reservation. You know, we have mental health, we have our veteran building, um, other veterans, you know, people are willing to talk. And of course, then the people that you went over with, you can sit and talk to them and -- and relate, we do have like some reunions, things of that nature, so there's support systems there and you gotta learn how to like be able to be a little vulnerable and tap into some of those, you know, sometimes put pride aside. Not everyone is able to do that or willing to do that, so it's just knowing I need it for my peace of mind. So yeah, just continuing to work on me.
01:36:06SPRAGUE: So, so get back '04, '03, somewhere in there?
01:36:12DOUD: Yep, '04.
01:36:14SPRAGUE: Yeah. Um, you decide you're gonna stay in the Guard. At some point --
01:36:20DOUD: Yeah.
01:36:20SPRAGUE: -- you make that decision. At this point on the civilian side, you're working at the bank still or?
01:36:26DOUD: [Inaudible] I think. I worked at Great Lakes Inter-Tribal Council in the accounting department for two years, and then I went to the bank. I was at the bank for seven years.
01:36:38SPRAGUE: I always ask guardsmen or reservists this question, what is it like to be in that role as a drilling soldier and work on the civilian side at the same time?
01:36:51DOUD: Um. I liked it, I did, and that was part of the reason why I went off of active duty so that I could have that balance of being a mom, being able to take my kid to school, being able to go to like a Christmas concert, being to be that, and then just going down and doing what I needed to do like on the weekend, um, just finding the support system to take care them while I was gone. That was sometimes an issue, but worked through that. But I liked it. I liked the balance. I think that that was the most important thing for me, was balance.
01:37:30SPRAGUE: Okay. So you had started to talk about it a little bit. You end up going down to Fort McCoy and working at the, at W.H.A.M.M.Y.
01:37:41DOUD: Yep, 426th, yeah.
01:37:44SPRAGUE: Sorry, Headquarters 426, Regimental Training Institute, Fort McCoy, Wisconsin. I said, I called it W.H.A.M.M.Y., that's how I knew it back when I grew up.
01:37:56SPRAGUE: Yep, WMA, yep, W.H.A.M.M.Y. Wisconsin Military Academy for those civilians on the line. So tell me about this, the E-7 position that you --
01:38:05DOUD: Well, that came up and is part of like the little supply admin unit that was there. It was a great unit. We had like some good little camaraderie, you know, and we collectively worked very, very well together. There were probably, let's say about maybe eight of us in our section, so to speak, and we would have to prepare. Like W.H.A.M.M.Y for the cadets that would come through to go to for their classes and things like that. So we were constantly like changing that one room or just kind of helping. Provide the resources that they'd need for that. I would do like inventories from time to time. It wasn't major or anything too, too heavy, which is another thing that I liked. So there was an E-8 position that might have been opening up, but I was done, I was ready to retire, yeah.
01:39:15SPRAGUE: You were thinking about the 20-year mark?
01:39:17DOUD: Yep. Yep, I had held my E-7 position for two years. Once you do that, you're kind of golden, you know. So I kind of weighed my options. Like if I wanted to stay, I could have stayed. It got to a point where my heart wasn't in it entirely anymore. That wasn't fair to my family to leave, you know, when they didn't want me to leave. Wasn't fair to the Army or my soldiers when, you know, I wasn't like giving my full potential and that just wasn't fair to, so I was like, if I'm feeling that way, I think it's time to be done and let someone else take care of everybody.
01:40:09SPRAGUE: What did it feel like after you had made that decision and after you?
01:40:14DOUD: Yeah, it was wonderful. It was -- there was it so bittersweet like I had no regrets. I was like it's time and I was so happy because my last drill was like December 2010 because I think I'd had my rank in September of '10. So then I had -- I had three months left. I remember turning in my stuff into like CIF and yeah, I was -- I'm done. Done.
01:40:44SPRAGUE: I'll bet that was an interesting conversation turning yourself in the CIF. [Laugh]
01:40:50DOUD: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
01:40:52SPRAGUE: At the 426th, did you -- what did you find? Did you deal at all with the officer candidates or the warrant officer candidates?
01:41:02DOUD: Yeah, from time to time, they were fine. They were pretty structured. They weren't mean or anything, you know. We just got in there, they'd have like their leader and they'd come and tell us what they wanted, how the room needed to be set up, and we would kind of execute that and be there to support them for whatever they needed. It was always just fluid and smooth. We never really had any major snags.
01:41:30SPRAGUE: That's pretty good for a unit to have --
01:41:33DOUD: Right. Right.
01:41:34SPRAGUE: Usually that smoothness is very indicative of the quality of the unit.
01:41:40DOUD: No, we actually, it was good, we were, we had a great team.
01:41:46SPRAGUE: So I've asked you about, we've talked about the Bullet Dress song and a bunch of the lyrics. You had mentioned pre-interview that your son is now a first lieutenant maybe?
01:42:04DOUD: He was.
01:42:05SPRAGUE: Was?
01:42:05DOUD: He's out.
01:42:06SPRAGUE: He's out now. Okay. And you shared a picture with me at some point and he was a specialist and then he became commissioned?
01:42:15DOUD: Yes. He was like when he went to basic training he was a specialist.
01:42:18SPRAGUE: Okay.
01:42:19DOUD: And then after that because he had had his bachelors already He went into like what is it like? Officer candidate school or whatever OCS.
01:42:26SPRAGUE: OCS. Okay.
01:42:27DOUD: Yeah, so he rolled right into that. So he was the specialist when he joined.
01:42:31SPRAGUE: Wow, so prior enlisted service and then went to the officer side.
01:42:36DOUD: Yep.
01:42:37SPRAGUE: What do you think about your son's service?
01:42:41DOUD: I have to salute him, I don't like that. [Laugh]
01:42:43SPRAGUE: Were you the one who told me, were you involved with that, the first salute, or was that somebody else?
01:42:51DOUD: No, well I don't know. I just know that we do that when we're out, even like if somebody outranks somebody, even though you're not in, you just gotta like salute them. So we joke about stuff like that, but.
01:43:05SPRAGUE: What do you think about his service and what can you tell me about that?
01:43:11DOUD: Well, he had went to UW-Milwaukee and then had got his bachelor's degree and he was working at a before and after school program in Milwaukee. And then one day, just out of nowhere, he's like, Mom, I'm going to join the Army. And I was like, okay. I did 20 years, so you wouldn't have to. You know? He's like, this is just something I need to do. And I said, okay, I'll support you, whatever you want to do, because I needed like that support, I always wanted someone to support what I was doing and I said yes, if that is something you need to do then I support you.
01:43:55SPRAGUE: So that would be the fourth generation, or third?
01:44:00DOUD: Third.
01:44:01SPRAGUE: Third?
01:44:02SPRAGUE: Third, yeah. Okay. So a long family tradition of service.
01:44:06DOUD: Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:08SPRAGUE: Okay, so I have to ask this question, and if I'm out of bounds just say pass or I'm not going to answer. You had mentioned in the pre-interview something about a pine cone, maybe?
01:44:25DOUD: Oh yeah. Um.
01:44:27SPRAGUE: If it is out of bounds, you can say out of bounds.
01:44:29DOUD: No, it's fine. So when we went to Iraq, we as natives, we hold tobacco in the highest regard. We use it in prayer. We use when offering to someone for help or guidance. We use that when we harvest an animal. It is just the traditional tobacco, not the harmful stuff. And so my aunt had made me like a little tobacco pouch and I would carry that with me because that's how we would pray. I'd put my medicine or my asemaa, is what they call it, put that down. And when we were getting ready to go to Iraq. I remember just from home, I wanted something like from home and I just like looked on the ground and there was just a little round pine cone. And I was like, I'm going to take that with me. And I put it, I had it in my bag and I had that pine cone with me like the whole, I think it's kind of crumbled up now, but I remember having that just to have like a little piece of home versus a picture of somebody or whatever. I had like physical something to just keep me like grounded and I would hold that. You know, whenever I was like praying or if I've had like a hard time or something that kept me kind of grounded and focused. It's my little pine cone story.
01:45:47SPRAGUE: And help me out here because I'm gonna try and say this correctly.
01:45:54DOUD: Okay.
01:45:55SPRAGUE: But you're gonna I'm going to murder it or --
01:45:59DOUD: Okay.
01:46:00SPRAGUE: Animikii ikwe.
01:46:01DOUD: Animikii -- Animikii ikwe.
01:46:03SPRAGUE: Animikii ikwe.
01:46:04DOUD: Yes.
01:46:05SPRAGUE: Animikii ikwe. Animikii ikwe.
01:46:07DOUD: Yep.
01:46:08SPRAGUE: And that is your name in Ojibwa?
01:46:09DOUD: Yes.
01:46:10SPRAGUE: Animikii ikwe.
01:46:12DOUD: Animikii ikwe means thunder woman or the storm is coming.
01:46:15SPRAGUE: Huh. Okay. Tell me about your decision to apply for the Tribal Liaison position.
01:46:32DOUD: So I did apply. Somebody had shared the position with me. I knew Nate Nez way back in the day. Didn't really know this was his position, so to speak. But I had applied for it a couple of years ago, and then, but they gave it to somebody else. And I was, it's okay. This is what it is. And it was like a year later that I saw the position again, and I was like, oh, okay. So I applied and got it. And I absolutely love what I do. I love connecting with all the tribes. I love helping -- provide different resources and get creative with different ideas that we can do collectively as a group. Taking things that we talk about at the annual consultation, taking those ideas and running with them to kind of help implement and get some initiatives going. I think they all like me. [Laugh] I like to hope so. And so, yeah, I was able to take Secretary Bond to all 11 tribes, meet with all of their tribal veteran service officers and their tribal leadership, and help establish and build those relationships and keep them sustained. So it's been very, very rewarding for me.
01:48:00SPRAGUE: When you first enlisted in the Army, did you ever think you would be in a position like this?
01:48:09DOUD: Never, never. I always wanted to work with numbers and money, so working at the bank was amazing. I thought about becoming a financial planner, things of that nature. But when this came about, and I was reading the job description, I was like, I'm a people person, you know. And I already have connections on all the reservations anyway. There's always somebody I know from somewhere. So that made it a little easier. Yeah, but I never even thought that I would be here. And I absolutely love it. I love what I do. And hopefully we'll continue to provide those resources and build the relationships and continue the good work.
01:49:02SPRAGUE: You had mentioned earlier, do you ever get together, even off the hook, informally with members of the 724th or?
01:49:14DOUD: Yeah, they just had like a reunion back in, I want to say October, and that was like the first time I'd really seen anybody or if you, you know you run into people from time to time but that was the first like official setting. So it was good to just kind of see everyone and catch up, see what they're doing, see if there's a way to maybe be a better part of the group to, you know. Support newer veterans, or just different initiatives that they may have going on in their communities. It's kind of a way to give back.
01:49:48SPRAGUE: Do you feel that a Guard unit like the 724th, there's a possibility for more connections post-combat service, because you're from local communities maybe?
01:50:04DOUD: Yeah. I don't know, I mean they have like maybe like a fishing jamboree or ice fishing tournament. They'll do different things like that. Maybe they're, maybe they have a fundraiser, like a food fundraiser or something like that just to kind of help people in their unit or maybe help an individual if they're going through something, I'm not really sure. I haven't, I've only been there just a couple times or ran into people. But, I'll try to get back and reconnect.
01:50:40SPRAGUE: We just passed Memorial Day, do you do anything in particular for Memorial Day?
01:50:46DOUD: I was the keynote speaker at the High Ground this year for Memorial Day, so.
01:50:56SPRAGUE: Wow.
01:50:56DOUD: Yeah. Last year I was keynote speaker in Eagle River at their Memorial Day ceremony, so, yeah.
01:51:05SPRAGUE: So I have to ask, what was that like at the High Ground being the keynote speaker?
01:51:10DOUD: Oh it was amazing. They had like over 200 bikers there. It was good to share my story. It was to acknowledge those that have gone before us. It also good to bring awareness to Native Americans because not everyone knows that. So I made sure I talked about the display that was there. But yeah, it was powerful. It was a chance for me to just share who I am, what I've gone through. And in the end of my speech, I did the same thing last year, just recognizing veterans and telling their stories, keeping those memories alive, talking about somebody's great-grandpa or what they did, or just sharing those stories. And I said, in the end of my speech, I said one day, too, I will be a memory. And I hope that what I do is impactful and I have influence and that the story is shared.
01:52:19SPRAGUE: Following that same vein, what motivated you to do this interview?
01:52:28DOUD: Here we are, like to capture the story, you know, what better way to do it than to be here where I know the audio will be good, the story's there, we can get a little editing if we need to. But it's good to just share that story, knowing it'll be housed somewhere. And a lot of times, thank you for the Kleenex, I thought that I would have to -- I would need that. Because some stories are hard to share. Not everyone wants to share their story. And that's okay. I think that when we do it, I put the spin on it of we don't have to share all the hard stuff. That's going to be there. That's not going to go away. But somebody might share that, hey, they got their bachelor's degree while they were in. Was able to serve with a family member. That might be there, so there's some. Even with collecting some of those stories, they don't all have to be the horror stories or the PTSD and bad stuff. There's some really great things that people are doing. Maybe they got their training and were able to come out of the military and work at a hospital because they took the, they went to Sam Houston and was in the medical field. So there's a lot of good positivity there. I think that -- just my little story, hopefully that'll have impact on somebody. Maybe they'll think, oh yeah, I can do it too. Or you know, oh my uncle was in, you know and it's not too late for me to join. Or wow, she did it, you know, look at all these people and the amazing things they've done to help shape our, help shape Wisconsin, you to help to shape our country, to help shape the Native American communities and tribes. There's somehow. Somewhere, somebody's always watching, you know, and somebody will be listening. And so it's good to just share a little bit. To share the story.
01:54:32SPRAGUE: Okay, did we miss anything that you'd like to cover?
01:54:39DOUD: Not that I can think of at the moment. I think we kind of covered it all. And then some.
01:54:49SPRAGUE: Okay then, you're always welcome to share more of your story with us.
01:54:54DOUD: Okay.
01:54:55SPRAGUE: Both spoken and written, whatever form you have or your music. Okay.
01:54:58DOUD: Okay.
01:54:58SPRAGUE: Okay. That's excellent. Then that's going to conclude the interview for today.
01:55:03DOUD: Okay. All right, well thank you for having me.
01:55:05SPRAGUE: You're welcome, thank you.
01:55:06DOUD: Thank you.
