Oral History Interview with John Pavlik

Interview Transcription:

BORDEN: Okay, we're talking with John Pavlik, World War I veteran from West Allis [Wisconsin]. John, let's begin this oral history with a little review of your early childhood days. I understand that you were born in Pennsylvania, and your father was in mining. Is that correct?

PAVLIK: Correct. Right.

BORDEN: Tell us about some of your early recollections.

PAVLIK: Well, the earliest recollection that I have is that we moved to Crystal Falls, Michigan where he worked in the iron ore mine and later on in Iron River, Michigan in iron ore mines. And I had left home earlier to come to Wisconsin, to Milwaukee rather, to find a job.

BORDEN: How old were you at this point?

PAVLIK: Oh, about fifteen, fourteen.

BORDEN: Mm-hmm. You were then on your own at that point?

PAVLIK: Right.

BORDEN: You were earning your own living.

PAVLIK: That's right.

BORDEN: You weren't married, though.

PAVLIK: No.

BORDEN: Mm-hmm.

PAVLIK: And I had worked at the Illinois Steel Company making steel I-beams and so forth. They had a lot of war material that they were making, and of course, as you know, 1914 is when WWI started. They assassinated the Duke [Archduke] of Austria, and the feeling was high that possibly we may get into a war. At least we were making some materials. And, of course, the place that I worked at, the Illinois Steel Company, we employed a lot of young people. We knew what was coming and sooner or later that we would be getting to that age where they would 00:02:00be asking us to join. Of course, the closer we got to possibly participating when they sank some of our boats, the enemy sank some of our boats, and so forth. They set up a recruiting office down at the Milwaukee Plankinton Arcade where--

BORDEN: Was this down near the site of the former Plankinton Hotel--

PAVLIK: It's next to it.

BORDEN: Many people are familiar with. Mm-hmm. Next to it.

PAVLIK: Right across the street from the Gimbels. And they had all kinds of services recruiting. They were recruiting for all kinds of services, Marine Corps, Navy, Army, various.

BORDEN: This would've been 1917 or '16?

PAVLIK: This is 1917.

BORDEN: '17.

PAVLIK: This started early in 1917, about January, that they set up the headquarters because the feeling was then great that we were mobilizing for possible war. And several of us who work at the plant went down one Saturday 00:03:00afternoon, and we all enlisted in various services.

BORDEN: Why? Why did you feel that you should enlist rather than be drafted?

PAVLIK: Well, being only sixteen, I know that I wouldn't be drafted for a couple more years, and by that time I wanted to get into the action and I wanted to serve my country. I felt that I was able to, and I wanted to do it that way.

BORDEN: You felt that most of your friends and companions felt kinda the same way, an obligation to serve the country.

PAVLIK: Right, right, because when we were enlisting they were recruiting so many of our young people that they over-recruited in some areas and had more people sign up than they were supposed to have for that.

BORDEN: Now, your ultimate decision, you decided to join the National Guard rather than the Regular Army or Navy, right?

PAVLIK: Right.

BORDEN: Why?

PAVLIK: Well, it seemed that the National Guard was your feeling for your own 00:04:00state, and you want to be part of the National Guard. You want to be part of your own people with your own people in your own state, where if you joined the Navy or something else you were mixed in with all kinds of other people from all over the country. We felt that we'd want to serve our state more so in that respect.

BORDEN: And, of course, you ultimately joined a unit which became a part of the famed 32nd.

PAVLIK: That's correct.

BORDEN: Wisconsin's own 32nd Infantry Division.

PAVLIK: That's right. That's right.

BORDEN: Uh-huh. Did you know that at the time, that you would be joining the main element?

PAVLIK: No, we didn't. When we were given basic training, and we knew that eventually the National Guard would become part of the Regular United States Army, and that became a fact because the Michigan National Guard and the 00:05:00Wisconsin National Guard were united to form the 32nd Division. When that was done, we were all sent to Camp MacArthur at Waco, Texas.

BORDEN: Well, before we get to that, what was the unit that you joined when you actually signed up?

PAVLIK: Well, the--

BORDEN: In Milwaukee.

PAVLIK: The unit that I wanted to be in was the Ambulance Company. That was the first time that the motorized Ambulance Company was being organized. Here before we had mules and wagon ambulances, and this was a mechanical--I was always liked to drive.

BORDEN: How old were you when you learned to drive?

PAVLIK: About fourteen.

BORDEN: About fourteen. And what were you driving at that time?

PAVLIK: A truck that was made in Menominee, Michigan, called, well, it was 00:06:00called a Menominee. It was made in [unintelligible]. And it was for a grocery store, delivering. It was a lot of fun. Solid tires.

BORDEN: So the great love affair with the automobile--

PAVLIK: That's right.

BORDEN: Bit you early, huh?

PAVLIK: That's right.

BORDEN: Uh-huh. And so, of course, when you went into the service, this was your opportunity to drive.

PAVLIK: Further. Yes.

BORDEN: Ambulances.

PAVLIK: Have your own vehicle that you could really use and clean and keep and drive, and so forth.

BORDEN: Back a generation before, you probably would have joined the cavalry, taking care of horses--

PAVLIK: That could--

BORDEN: And groomed the horses. And I understand they used to have a horse of their own, right?

PAVLIK: Right. That could be--that could've been true.

BORDEN: Yeah. And the horse became--the motor vehicle became the substitute.

PAVLIK: Right.

BORDEN: And so what was the unit designation in the Guard, and what community--in those days, the units were closely identified with a community, weren't they?

PAVLIK: Right. Right, like in Milwaukee, we had the field artillery. We had 00:07:00the 107th Sanitary Train Field Hospital. We had the ambulance companies, and so forth.

BORDEN: What was the unit designation on the ambulance company?

PAVLIK: When we formed the Division, it was then changed to 125th Ambulance Company, but originally, in the National Guard, it was only Ambulance Company No. 2, because Ambulance No. 1 was from Racine [Wisconsin]. They still had the mules, and we, in Milwaukee, had the motor vehicles. Of course, the other two units were from Michigan.

BORDEN: And when you went on active duty what time period are we talking about? When did you enter active duty?

PAVLIK: Well, right after we enlisted we were given basic training as far as squads right and squads left and the facts about being a soldier and--

BORDEN: Right.

PAVLIK: We trained at the Goldsmith Building in Milwaukee.

BORDEN: Oh, this was actually Guard training.

PAVLIK: Guard training.

BORDEN: Guard training, not Army training.

PAVLIK: Right. No, this is Guard training.

BORDEN: Right.

PAVLIK: We continued that, and in fact we even slept in pup tents out at Whitefish Bay [suburb of Milwaukee] for a week just to get the feel of--

BORDEN: Right.

PAVLIK: How we go. And then--

BORDEN: How long was it before the unit was federalized? Before you became part of the Army.

PAVLIK: Federalized?

BORDEN: Yeah, before it became part of the Army.

PAVLIK: I think it was federalized when we went down to Waco, Texas. This could've been, probably, let's see--April, May, June--about June--end of June or beginning of July.

BORDEN: Mm-hmm.

PAVLIK: As a matter of fact, this is rather interesting, we had the motor vehicles, and we were leaving Milwaukee with our vehicles to go to Camp Douglas [Wisconsin] and we traveled at that time dirt roads. We made Madison the first 00:09:00day, and we pitched our pup tents and stayed at the Camp Randall field.

BORDEN: Oh, yes.

PAVLIK: Then from there, next morning we had our breakfast, and we traveled on to Camp Douglas. Took us two days.

BORDEN: Two days to go from Camp Douglas to Milwaukee.

PAVLIK: Right.

BORDEN: And you were traveling by what means of transportation?

PAVLIK: Why, by our own White vehicles. The motor vehicles that were issued to us.

BORDEN: But it was just the roads were not up to--right.

PAVLIK: That was issued to us or National Guard issued them to us. And then, of course--

BORDEN: These were White ambulances.

PAVLIK: Whites.

BORDEN: White Motor Car Company.

PAVLIK: Right.

BORDEN: Yeah, mm-hmm. No windshields, no side curtains, and you carried either eight patients sitting up or four on litters.

BORDEN: What was the cruising speed of those ambulances, considering the dirt roads? How many miles per hour?

PAVLIK: Oh, we didn't--well, if you were--

BORDEN: Fifteen, twenty miles an hour?

PAVLIK: No, if you were second and third you just were feeling your way because 00:10:00of the dust and so forth. You had no clear vision of the road, and--

BORDEN: No windshields?

PAVLIK: No windshields, no--none of that. If it rained, it rained in on you, and you put your poncho in front of you to keep water off your legs and feet.

BORDEN: How many flat tires did you have between Camp Douglas and Milwaukee?

PAVLIK: I don't remember whether we--[Borden laughs] our vehicle had no flat tires that I was--

BORDEN: These were not pneumatic tires. These were solid rubber, right?

PAVLIK: Solid rubber.

BORDEN: Solid rubber. Pretty hard, pretty hard ride, huh?

PAVLIK: Well, yes, it was hard riding.

BORDEN: Uh-huh.

PAVLIK: Really.

BORDEN: And then you went to Waco, Texas for advanced training in the--

PAVLIK: Right. Yeah, as you know WWI veterans were trained--our style of warfare was like we had during Spanish-American War, open field type of training. They never dug any foxholes or things like that.

BORDEN: Not trench warfare. Yeah.

PAVLIK: This is right. And they had little artillery, and it was differently set up. Well, when we were mobilized, federalized at Waco, we had some French and some English officers come up there and tell us what the problems are when in trenches, because they had already been three years in trenches at that time. And so we had to dig trenches in order to--so that we could understand what we were--and those trenches that we would be--in would be already had been dug. So we were given that type of training plus other type of training. They had us improving on the open warfare of chasing the enemy, so to speak. The reason, I 00:12:00think, that we were so successful in our winning the war the way they did is because we had the original basic training of keeping the enemy on the run, that we learned that was our style of fighting. Then when we were in the trenches, just as soon as we could get out of the trenches, we went to our style of fighting, and our enemy was not used to our style of fighting. They were in trench type of warfare, so forth. So that made the difference 'cause you kept them off balance all the time, and they had no chance to dig in, and so on. I thought that type of training proved very, very valuable to us.

BORDEN: What type of life did you have when you were down at Waco, Texas? Were you living in tents?

PAVLIK: Yes. We lived in tents, eight men to a tent. Of course, you had 00:13:00routine inspections, weekly inspections of everything, and drilled. And, of course, at that particular place they gumbo [wet, sticky soil] is real. When it rained it was really rough. They built a lot of buildings there, and this they the [unintelligible], in fact, we had our whole Division in this particular camp. The people were very good. They were very patriotic. We got passes from time to time to go out by bus downtown, and we were given very courteous type of treatment, you'd say, in stores. We were there during Thanksgiving, and the people opened their homes to us and invite us to come out have Thanksgiving dinner with them, which I took advantage of with a family. They brought me to the--they picked me up and brought me back to the camp there. So the people 00:14:00were very fine. They appreciated what was being done for them. I think you might say they were very, very patriotic 'cause we come in here--and concerned about us.

BORDEN: Well, what the pay, of course, obviously was a lot less than it is today. An American private today makes around $600 a month.

PAVLIK: Really?

BORDEN: That's right. Now, what was the pay for privates--

PAVLIK: Oh man!

BORDEN: Back in 1917, when you were federalized?

PAVLIK: My pay was $15 a month for National Guards. Then, when we were federalized, we got $30 a month. We had 100% increase in pay. And then when we went overseas they increased that by 10%, so $33, and out of that they took $10 for your life insurance, $10 allotment, and when you wound up you probably had fifty Francs, which was about $5 worth of French money.

BORDEN: Well, you had three squares a day the Army provided for.

PAVLIK: Oh, yeah. I would say this, that they fed us real good. It was no problem.

BORDEN: Mm-hmm.

PAVLIK: There were times when you were out in the field that you had to use your rations, but the only rations that we had that we carried was hardtack and corned beef, canned corned beef. And that was good. I mean, we were never in want of real food. Never went hungry.

BORDEN: You didn't have canned food. You didn't have the C-rations.