Partial Transcript: Interviewer: And did you get the OB training that you were looking for?
Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Clover discusses her first assignment at the Naval Hospital in Chelsea, Massachusetts where she worked as an X-ray technician and helped in the delivery room. She discusses having a dog that became the barrack's mascot.
Partial Transcript: Clover: And I was going to stay in, but then I came home on leave, and I met my present
Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Clover discusses meeting her future husband and her discharge from the Navy after learning she was pregnant. Clover also discusses her continued work as an X-ray technician.
Partial Transcript: Interviewer: And, let me ask you about some of these other pictures. Here's a good-sized one,
tell me what that is all about.
Segment Synopsis: Clover shares pictures of her family who served in World War I. She discusses her siblings, specifically her brother who served in the Marines.
Partial Transcript: Interviewer: Now, after you got out of the service, you had children, and you continued to work in nursing....
Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Clover discusses her work as a den mother for the Cub Scouts. She discusses joining the American Legion and starting a WAVES unit in Green Bay, Wisconsin. Clover also discusses becoming a regional representative for WAVES, and describes her duties.
Partial Transcript: Interviewer: There’s something that I didn't ask you about, and it came to mind when you said...
Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Clover discusses some of her experiences in basic training. She discusses the living conditions. Clover also discusses waiting for a billet to work as an x-ray technician.
HEALEY: This is an interview with Delores "Dee" Clover--and Dee is D-E-E, CloverC-L-O-V-E-R--who served with the WAVES [Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service] during the Korean War period. This interview is being conducted at Ms. Clover's home on February 8, 2013 and the interviewer is Ellen B. Healey--H-E-A-L-E-Y. Okay, tell me a little bit about your background and circumstances before you got into the service. What year were you born?
HEALEY: And what was your hometown?
CLOVER: Long Lake, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: And where's Long Lake, Wisconsin?
CLOVER: That's about twenty-five miles north of Laona, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Okay, so that's northeastern Wisconsin?
CLOVER: Northeastern Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Okay. And, how long did you live in Long Lake, Wisconsin?
CLOVER: I was there off and on during the time I was teenager, from eleven to sixteen.00:01:00
HEALEY: Okay. So you said you were born in Long Lake, Wisconsin?
CLOVER: No, I was born in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Oh, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Okay.
CLOVER: Granville, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Okay. And, tell me a little bit about your father and mother.
CLOVER: Well my father was in the first World War, and when he came out of theservice, he met my mother, who was working in a hotel in Milwaukee.
HEALEY: Okay, and what did your father do in the Service? What branch of the--
HEALEY: Infantry. Was he in the Army, or not?
CLOVER: In the Army.
HEALEY: Okay. And, was he drafted, or--
CLOVER: He was drafted.
CLOVER: And at the time, they called him Benny. His name is Benjamin Henry, and00:02:00we never knew that his name was Benny until I found his information from the Service.
HEALEY: Okay. And what was his last name?
CLOVER: Meyer. M-E-Y-E-R.
HEALEY: Okay. And was he from Milwaukee, or where did he come from?
CLOVER: His folks were in Beaver, Wisconsin, and he was born of Nicholas Meyerand Anna Kolb, K-O-L-B.
HEALEY: Okay. And he was in the Army during World War I. Did he serve in theUnited States, or where did he serve?
CLOVER: He served in the United States but was sent to France.
CLOVER: And he told a story about how all the enemy and they were friendly, andthey used to sit down and have their bag lunches together along the line of scrimmage, you know, where the--
CLOVER: --the fence line was. But he had to be over there fighting his cousins00:03:00because our family came from Germany, and so he would have been fighting friendly people sometimes, too.
HEALEY: Okay. And you said when he came back, he met your mom?
CLOVER: He met her in a hotel in Milwaukee--I'm not sure what the hotel's namewas, but my mother and my aunt Anna, my dad's sister, were working in the hotel at the time.
HEALEY: And where was your mother from?
CLOVER: My mother was from Coleman, Wisconsin.
CLOVER: And her folks also came from Germany. They were the Birkholz family. B-I-R-K-H-O-L-Z.
HEALEY: Okay. All right. So they met in a hotel, and you were born in Milwaukee,so you were born in 1925. Were you the first in the family?
CLOVER: No. I have an older sister Adelaine--00:04:00
CLOVER: --a younger sister Rose, another younger sister Marian, and a brotherJames, who is also deceased now--in 1954
HEALEY: Okay. So, you indicated that you were born in Milwaukee. When did youand your family move from Milwaukee?
CLOVER: We moved up to Marinette when I was around six years old, I think I hadkindergarten in Milwaukee, and then I went to St. Anthony School in Marinette, Wisconsin. And we lived in Porterfield until I was about eleven, and then we moved north to Long Lake, Wisconsin. When my Dad got his pension, which was about five hundred dollars, from the service, then he built a house.
HEALEY: And he built the house in--
CLOVER: Long Lake, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Okay. And what did your parents do for a living?00:05:00
CLOVER: They painted houses, and they built houses; they did a lot of carpentrywork, and they also worked at the shipyards in Sturgeon Bay, painting the ships. My dad did some of the painting and my mother got into the welding.
HEALEY: Okay. And you mentioned you lived in Long Lake while you were ateenager, and then where did you go from there?
CLOVER: When I got out of high school, I went to Milwauk--I went to Green Bay, Wisconsin.
HEALEY: Did you graduate from high school, or not?
CLOVER: I graduated from New London. Actually, I had five different gradeschools and five different high schools, because I worked for other people all during the time I went to school--
CLOVER: --in high school.
HEALEY: So what took you to New London? Were you working there?
CLOVER: Uh, my mother sent a letter to somebody in Lena, Wisconsin, and told00:06:00them that I could milk cows and I could take care of children, and I could hoe gardens and stuff; and so they came and got me on a Sunday, when I was thirteen years old.
CLOVER: And, uh, I actually haven't been home totally since that vacation. Butmy mother didn't know where I was, 'cause she wrote to several families, "This girl can work for you."
CLOVER: And I made a dollar a week. When I completed the first month, I had four dollars.
HEALEY: What year was this?
CLOVER: This would have been, uh, '38.
CLOVER: I was thirteen.
HEALEY: Okay. And what were--you made a dollar a week, and what were you doing?
CLOVER: Just taking care of their children--two little children, and milking00:07:00cows. And of course, the first cow I milked, I had been milking the cow when the cow was going dry. So I just stripped the cow of milk for a short time, so when I got to this farmer's place, and he gave me a cow to milk, the cow lay down because I was so slow. [Healey laughs] So he put me out in the fields to hoe the beans, and I also trained their little boy, who was about a year old, to go potty.
CLOVER: And the little girl was seven, and then I was not happy withthe--working there, so I got in contact with my sister who was working for priests in Lebanon, and they came and got me from that job. Then I went to New London to work for a lady and her friend. He had three boys, and one Sunday they 00:08:00got married, I was taking care of the three boys for the week while they were gone, and that is where I graduated from high school.
CLOVER: But while I was in New London I also worked for one of the teachers, andI worked for Father Rank, the dean of the diocese in New London, so I had pretty much shifting jobs.
HEALEY: Did you go to, uh, a Catholic school there, or did you go to a public school.
CLOVER: I went to a public school. That's Washington High School--is now themiddle school. I also took care of an old lady, she was eighty-five years old, uh, Mrs. Kobler [sp??], and she couldn't pronounce the name Dolores, so she called me Millie, by my middle name, and I worked for her for about two weeks, 00:09:00and she died. So here I was, fifteen years old, and I called the Catholic priests that my sister was working for, and all the people on the party line wanted to know if I was working for a Baptist woman, and she died, and I called the Catholic priests. So that was a little bit of gossip there. But her daughter was a teacher in Milwaukee also, so she taught in the college in Milwaukee. So it's kind of a mixed-up life that I had.
HEALEY: What'd you do after you graduated?
CLOVER: When I graduated from high school, I went to work at Phillip's Café inGreen Bay, and while I was working there, a friend from Long Lake came to visit me, and she said, "I want to get a job down here," so we went all over Green Bay looking for a job, and there was nothing satisfying her, so I took my piggy bank 00:10:00and we bought tickets and went to Milwaukee, and there I stayed with my aunt Agatha for a couple days, and the girl couldn't find a suitable job there, so she went home and got married, and I left my aunt Agatha's, and went in the rooming house, and I worked for the Milwaukee hospital, for Sister Emma. And--
HEALEY: And how old were you at that time?
CLOVER: Eighteen, I suppose now, whatever.
CLOVER: I must have been seventeen, yeah. So, I was also usherette in a theaterin Milwaukee, and I--
HEALEY: And was the--had the--World War II started at that or not? When you wereworking at the hospital?
CLOVER: I graduated in 1943.00:11:00
HEALEY: Okay. Do you recall Pearl Harbor?
CLOVER: Yes I do.
HEALEY: And what were you doing at that time?
CLOVER: When that, uh--[phone rings]
HEALEY: --Okay, I asked where were you during Pearl Harbor, and what do you recall?
CLOVER: Pearl Harbor was, December seven, Nineteen--
HEALEY: Let's see. You would have been, uh--
CLOVER: I remember listening to the radio, and I heard President Rooseveltsaying, "Somebody did a disastrous thing, and we are at war." I heard President Roosevelt say that.
HEALEY: And, uh, what year did you graduate from high school?
CLOVER: I graduated from high school in 1943, so I was in Milwaukee in 19--here,00:12:00Green Bay, and Milwaukee in 1944, '45--
CLOVER: --'46; I was working for a laundry in Milwaukee because there was a girlthat was very unpleasant, that I had to room with while I worked with, in the Milwaukee hospital. I was a nurse's aide there and, uh, so I left that job and went to the American Laundry in Milwaukee. And the first week I worked there, they went on strike and were all fired. So I cried, and I was home, and the next couple days, and my mother said, "Well, you can go take care of your grandmother." My grandmother had had a stroke--that was 1945. And so this must have been in August or September, so I, uh, earned ten dollars a week working, 00:13:00taking care of my grandmother, and then--
HEALEY: Where did she live?
CLOVER: She lived in Pound, Wisconsin, in rural Pound.
HEALEY: Where is that?
CLOVER: What they call Beaver? That's up north, between here and Marinette.
CLOVER: And my uncle paid me ten dollars a week to take care of her, and then I,I met a fellow at a dance, and in a short time we were engaged, and I was so happy because he had given me this sparkling blue diamond, and all of a sudden I guess I decided my grandmother should be up walking, so I decided to go to nurses' training. I wrote to every school that I knew, I wanted to be a registered nurse, but I didn't have chemistry and Latin--there was a lot more to the story in between these words--but I left there in March 1946 and went to the 00:14:00Vocational School of Nursing in Minneapolis, and that was a practical nursing school. I graduated in December, meantime, my grandmother died in April; I had intended to go back to take care of her when I got my nurse's training, but--
HEALEY: So you went there for one year? 1946, and graduated?
CLOVER: Yeah. Nine months, in December.
HEALEY: Where--did you recall where you lived in Minneapolis?
CLOVER: Where I lived?
HEALEY: And where the school was?
CLOVER: It's on 5511 Lindale Avenue.
CLOVER: And we lived upstairs. The length of the building had about thirty cots,and all the workers--all the women that were going to nurses' training lived there.
HEALEY: How were you able to afford that?
CLOVER: My course cost forty-nine dollars to go to that nursing school.00:15:00
HEALEY: Okay. That included room and board?
CLOVER: That was what the course called. Whatever else it cost for uniform andshoes, stockings, and all those things I earned. Washing dishes for the Jewish people, and babysitting. All the time I was writing letters to my fiancé. I remember I went out on the back steps and I wrote the letters. And we were supposed to be in bed by ten o'clock, but the supervisor came by and she saw me sitting out there writing letters and she didn't say anything about it. So I was pretty good at nursing because I already had been a nurse's aide, so I understood the techniques. And of course, back then, there wasn't that much medication or that much nursing care. It was like, just taking care of your grandmother. 00:16:00
CLOVER: So then, in December, I went home, and, uh, I graduated from the school.I--oh, I can't remember. I already had procured a job at Oak Terrace, Minnesota. It was a TB Sanitorium, and I worked in a children's hospital there. That place is already torn down.
HEALEY: So after you went home, you went back to Minnesota?
CLOVER: Back to work. I broke up with my boyfriend and went back to work, 'causehe said I couldn't go to work after we were married, and that didn't sit right 00:17:00with me. So then I went to work there for three years in the children's hospital, and then I decided I hadn't had OB training, and I wanted very much to, to know how to deliver babies and, you know, take care of women, so I went back to work. From the children's hospital, I joined the Navy. I went downtown in Minneapolis, and signed up for the Navy, and that was in May 1949? Yeah, 1949.
HEALEY: What got you thinking about the service? Did you know someone else?00:18:00
CLOVER: I wanted the OB training that the service was offering schools. Hospital school.
HEALEY: When you signed up, how long was your hitch? What period of time?
CLOVER: I was in three years--
CLOVER: --in the Navy. But when I signed up, my mother didn't want me to go. Mydad said, "Well you want to go in there just to be service for the men," and I didn't listen to him, and I went home for the summer to help my mother straighten out all her affairs, and help clean her house, and whatever. And the Navy called me in August 1949 and, uh, then I went to boot camp.
HEALEY: Where'd you go to boot camp?
CLOVER: In Great Lakes, Illinois, the training center.
HEALEY: What do you recall about boot camp?
CLOVER: Uh, marching.
CLOVER: Uh, standing out on the grid in the rain, a parade rest until yourshoulders got so sore you could hardly move 'em forward anymore, uh, let's see, boot camp--
HEALEY: Did you know anyone there or not?
CLOVER: No, I didn't know anyone. I was twenty-three; everyone else waseighteen, nineteen, you know, mean they had to be, eighteen, I guess, to get in then; I was twenty-three. I remember going for my first leave which was about three hours, and I went to the USO, and on the way I passed a restaurant that was a Phillip's Café. And they were the same people that I had worked for when I went to Green Bay, when I graduated from high school. They were the same Phillip's Café there. That made an impression. From the boot camp, I signed up 00:20:00for the Hospital Corps school, and because I was a practical nurse I had all my books, and that helped me through there, but I invented a set of cards with the medications on one side, and a description of the medication on the other side, and they called me a big baby because I had to use those cards to learn about the medications. So when I left the Hospital Corps school, then I gave those cards to the students that were there, and I left them there so they could use them also. I think they probably [inaudible].
CLOVER: After I got out of Corps school we went on the parade grounds, and wemarched past the admiral, and I was a right guide, the one next to the admiral, 00:21:00you know; everybody else had to square off this way in the ranks.
HEALEY: And why was that?
CLOVER: And, I guess I was a pretty good marcher.
CLOVER: I don't know why.
HEALEY: And this was at Great Lakes.
CLOVER: At Great Lakes.
CLOVER: Now there was one thing that happened in boot camp, I slipped and felland broke a toe, and I had to march the rest of the time with that toe; I bandaged it, I supported it with, uh, eskimo pie sticks and whatever I could to make that toe capable of taking me through all the marching, and that was a very bad thing because I didn't know where to go to see a doctor. I had a bad 00:22:00experience with my sister sent me an iron, one of those traveler's irons, and because my sister wrote and said that she didn't have any money and she was having another baby, I wanted to send the iron back, so I packaged it up, took it to the school, and one of the classrooms, and then the teacher said, "Oh, we're not going to stop at the post office today." So I left the package under the seat, 'cause I would come there and sit in that seat the next day, and take the package when we went to the post office. Well, of course, they picked up the package, and "Your package, Miss Meyer." And then they gave me twelve hours' demerits, and I had to spray all the kitchen cabinets and everything for cockroaches and wash walls for the twelve hours. And I was a crybaby, and I 00:23:00cried then because they were punishing me, you know. Then when I got through that, I knew how to discipline myself--was just one of those things. I didn't know anybody in Corps school but I met one girl and we went out to, well, to the bar one night, snuck out to the bar 'cause we weren't supposed to go there. And there was one gal who wanted the tray that had something like a souvenir tray. So I stuck that inside of my coat and I walked out with it, and I gave it to her. Those were crooked little things that we did when we were in the Service.
HEALEY: And this was on base or off base? The bar?
CLOVER: It was on base, the bar. So then--
HEALEY: How long were you at Great Lakes?
CLOVER: I was there from August 1949 until, uh, April 1950. In April I landed in00:24:00Chelsea, Mass.
HEALEY: Why so long in the--
CLOVER: Because the boot camp was about eight weeks and the school, the HospitalCorps school--
HEALEY: Your Hospital Corps school was right there. And did you get the OBtraining that you were looking for?
CLOVER: Oh yes.
CLOVER: When I went to the Chelsea, Massachusetts Naval Hospital there, that wasthe same hospital that President Kennedy had come to from the ship, the PT boat that he was injured on.
HEALEY: And Chelsea, Massachusetts, is that the name of the town, or is that thename of the--
HEALEY: That's the name of the town.
CLOVER: It's right off of Boston.
HEALEY: Do you recall what your pay was, uh, at that time?00:25:00
CLOVER: No. I don't think we made more than like thirty-five dollars a week atany time in the service.
HEALEY: Okay. And where did you live while you were at Chelsea, Massachusetts?
CLOVER: I lived in Wade's barracks. And another little story is, one time I wentdown into the town of Chelsea, and a man walked up to me and he had a little puppy about five weeks old, and he said, "I'll sell you this puppy for five dollars." I don't know how I got by with it, but I bought the puppy, took him back to the barracks, and the master-at-arms called the captain, and got permission to keep that dog as a mascot in the barracks. I gave the dog baths and trained the dog and everything, and every day I went to work and I had to come home and clean up the rug, and eventually the dog was trained, and the 00:26:00master-at-arms had company, and all the girls loved the dog.
HEALEY: What kind of a dog was it?
CLOVER: It was a dog like we have here; it was, uh, pure white.
HEALEY: Okay. So a little dog.
CLOVER: Eskimo, like a sled dog.
HEALEY: Were you in Chelsea, Massachusetts, that was your only duty assignment,or not.
CLOVER: Well, from--I was in Chelsea from April '50 until about, uh, July '51.Then I was a X-ray technician; I had gone to X-ray school, and we delivered about a hundred and fifty or more babies, probably; I worked in a delivery room in Chelsea, in the hospital.
HEALEY: You were delivering babies of service members' wives?00:27:00
CLOVER: Yes, the dependants.
HEALEY: Okay. Describe Chelsea in terms of where it's located in Massachusetts,and what the mission or the purpose of the base is, where it's located.
CLOVER: It's one end of the Mystic River Bridge. And that was a, I believe thatalso the Charles River there.
HEALEY: How far from Boston are you?
CLOVER: I would say five miles. I used to go into Boston to listen to the Pops,and we went in there to visit the historical sites, like where Paul Revere rode, and the North Church, you know, where they had the lantern there, and everything. We used to go around there.
HEALEY: How'd you get to Boston? What sort of transportation?
CLOVER: I probably took the, the bus.00:28:00
CLOVER: Because eventually, I came home on leave, and I bought my mother anddad's '39 Chevy and I went back--but I was already in Quonset Point then, and I had to park off the base. I was worried about the tires on my car being stolen, and whatever, you know, while you're parked off the base.
HEALEY: What's Quonset Point? Is that a base, or what?
CLOVER: Quonset Point is in Narragansett Bay.
CLOVER: In Narragansett Bay, that's all torn down now. It was a naval airstation, and that was the first time I heard the jets, and I heard them break the sound barrier when the jets went up.
HEALEY: Let's talk a little bit about your day-to-day duty work.
CLOVER: I was in--in Chelsea, Mass., I was in five different clinics.00:29:00
CLOVER: I have them listed in there, I think. Uh, I worked in the offices, Ianswered the phone, and of course my night duty was spent, two hour watches, and one time I had to watch over one of the Navy personnel who was trying to commit suicide, so I had a two-hour watch with that one. I also rode the ambulance.
HEALEY: Did you usually work daytime or nighttime or back and forth?
CLOVER: Back and forth; I worked nighttime when I worked in the delivery room.
CLOVER: We delivered a lot of babies. I noticed that babies of color are bornpink. [inaudible] and as they breathe oxygen, they turn dark. 00:30:00
HEALEY: M-hm. Any particular supervisors or coworkers in the Navy that stand outto you?
CLOVER: I remember Warren Berge, he was from Michigan somewhere; and MichaelEly, that's E-L-Y, I believe it's from Ely, Minnesota.
HEALEY: And what did those--were they, uh, service members?
CLOVER: X-ray technicians, I don't know.
HEALEY: They were technicians.
CLOVER: X-ray technicians.
HEALEY: Were they in the Navy?
CLOVER: They were in the Navy. We were all in the Navy. It was a Naval base.[long pause] I don't know; I'm getting a mental block for sure.
HEALEY: Okay. Overall, how did you like the work at Chelsea?00:31:00
CLOVER: I loved the Navy.
[Break in recording][00:31:27]
HEALEY: Tape One, Side B, of an oral history interview with Dee Clover, and wewere just talking about impressions of the Navy, and you indicated you'd loved the Navy.
CLOVER: M-hm. And I was going to stay in, but then I came home on leave, and Imet my present husband, and we wrote from November until the next March, and he had proposed in, on Valentine's Day in February, and I said, "No, I'm not going to give you an answer through the mail. You have to come out here." So he drove his old rickety car all the way out to where I was in Quonset Point, and, uh, we spent the weekend by the master-at-arms' house, and she kept us separated, and 00:32:00then we took off back to the base in Quonset Point--she was in Poughkeepsie, New York. We went back to the base, and we said our goodbyes, and he went back to Green Bay to set up a wedding. My sister helped him, my older sister.
CLOVER: And then he sold his car to pay for all the things we needed for thewedding, and I paid for half of the rings, and we went and got the wedding ring and the engagement ring right away when I said yes. It was a very freaky proposal, because he came all the way out to Quonset Point, and he said, "Well, what do you think?" and I said, "What do I think what?" and he said, "Well, 00:33:00should we get married?" and I said, "Well, you didn't ask me yet." So he said, "Well, will ya?" and I said, "Well, I suppose." So that was the proposal.
HEALEY: [laughs] And that was in when? That was--what year was that?
CLOVER: That was 1951.
HEALEY: Okay. And you were still in the Navy at the time.
CLOVER: And that was in March; the end of March he came out to propose.
HEALEY: Okay. And when was your enlistment going to be up?
CLOVER: Then my enlistment was going to be up in August, but I came back home tobe married in April. April twenty-sixth, we got married in 1952. So from that time on--
HEALEY: And then did you go back to the Navy?
CLOVER: I got discharged out of the Navy on July 7, 1952, because I was pregnant00:34:00by then.
HEALEY: Okay. So after you got married, you went back to Massachusetts or not?
CLOVER: I went to serve, uh-huh, there. And then he came back with me, and wegot an apartment, and, uh, the dog that I had gotten in Chelsea, Massachusetts, uh, was lent out to some people, what is it, the--Tischners [sp??], a Colonel Tischner, and I was pretty good friends with his wife, because I was X-raying her for gallbladder trouble, and things--and so I asked her if she would take the dog when I went to Quonset Point, and they took the dog home. They had an 00:35:00apartment upstairs in their house, and so when Peter and I went back after being married, we went to them and asked if the apartment was available, and they said yes. So then we lived in that apartment until after our baby was born, but we also got the dog back. The same puppy that I had gotten in--
HEALEY: But you had gotten discharged by then, uh, before you had your baby.
CLOVER: Oh, yeah.
CLOVER: But we stayed there, because he wanted to stay for the care at theinfirmary in Quonset Point.
HEALEY: Care for the baby?
CLOVER: For our prenatal, and post-natal, and the birth of the baby.
CLOVER: And so--
HEALEY: So what did you do to support--you were staying out there, and were you working?
CLOVER: Well, he worked in a garage; he was a mechanic.00:36:00
CLOVER: And he worked at a garage in East Greenwich, and I started working inSanta Maria Nursing Home, and of course when it got to be, uh, icy in the fall, and I was about six months pregnant, then I slipped down the steps, and he said, "You're not going to work anymore." And I was very happy working in the nursing home too, you know, I made my first quilt backs, squares about nine inches square, and I put one name on each square, and I embroidered the name on each one, and then I made a quilt back out of all those names. In the middle of the quilt back I had "Pete" and "Dolores", and I had all of our children--we were going to have eight children--I had all of those around our name, in the middle of the quilt. And all the other names were family names of everybody in the 00:37:00family. And since I have lost that quilt, because I think I covered it; it was getting raggedy, and can't find it; I don't know where it is.
HEALEY: Okay. Let me take you back to, uh, you moved from Chelsea to Quonset Point?
HEALEY: What type of work did you do at Quonset Point? Same work, or--
CLOVER: X-ray. Because I went to X-ray school in Chelsea.
CLOVER: And, uh, I went to--I had a little problem with the, uh, the lieutenantthat was in charge of the clinics, and a few things that I did, like, the packages that had to be archived had to be sterilized.
CLOVER: One day one of the workers, like a maid, went by with a wheelchair, andI said, "Why don't you take these packages down to sterilize them?" And my 00:38:00supervisor objected to that; she said, "Don't leave her have those packages or anybody else have those packages; make sure that you take them down there and bring them back yourself." And so, that was one thing that I objected to, I guess. And another time, I, uh, I was in one of the doctor's offices--we used to help set up the patients for pelvic exams--and according to which doctor was going to do the exam, we would assist them, and one day one of the doctors let me do a pelvic exam so I could tell how far the woman was dilated, and whether she should stay or not to have her baby or go back home. So that was 00:39:00interesting, the doctors were very nice. [long pause] Oh, I smoked then, while I was in the Navy, too. So I was in one of the doctors' rooms, and, uh, I put the cigarette in the ashtray, and I'd visited the bathroom there, and the supervisor came by and she said, "Oh, Doctor So-and-So is here," and I said, "Yeah, he just went down the hall," 'cause it was supposed to be his cigarette. [both laugh] So I got by with that. Anyway, I learned. From one thing to another, I disciplined myself to be a better member of the Navy.
HEALEY: Okay. And then you had a baby out there, in Massachusetts?
CLOVER: Had the baby in the infirmary. For seven dollars and fifty cents.00:40:00
HEALEY: All right.
CLOVER: And then we, in April--no, last of March--of, uh, 1953, we bundled upthe baby and drove back here in a 1940 convertible, which I had stuffed every little crack I could with Kleenex because it was very cold in that convertible coming through the mountains. And we had the baby and the dog and the TV and a trailer with the--all of our belongings--I should say all of our possessions. Well in Olean, New York, the trailer wheel gave out, so we had to leave everything there, and we had the buggy, and the TV, and the baby, and the dog in the car, and we came back here and they shipped, everything back on the train 00:41:00for ten dollars.
HEALEY: Really good. Why did you decide to come back to Wisconsin?
CLOVER: Well, we had decided we were going to live in Green Bay.
CLOVER: He's from Marinette, and I'm from Long Lake, Wisconsin, so we decidedGreen Bay would be a good place to stay.
CLOVER: So then we bought a little house--it was a little three-room house--onTenth Avenue, and I believe it was, I suppose, about twelve thousand dollars--I mean two thousand dollars, something like that, when we bought that, and we had our first child there; and the second, and third, and the fourth child. And the fourth child didn't have any other place to go, because we had cordoned off the, 00:42:00uh, living room, about eight feet of the living room, for a set of bunk beds and a crib. So that's where we had three children, and the fourth one came along, and he had to stay in the buggy. Then we took in Peter's father for about three months, and I got pregnant with another child and so I said "He has to go back to the nursing home." So we had to send him back to the nursing home. And then we built a house on Tenth Avenue that was a two-story house, and I had to go back to work. So I put on my nursing uniforn and I worked for St. Vincent's and I worked for St. Mary's and I cleaned the northern building offices, and I had 00:43:00that baby. Then we, uh, we had that home on Oneida St., and I went back to work quite often; every time I went back to work I got pregnant again, so--
HEALEY: How many children do you have in all?
CLOVER: Seven. I had a miscarriage. So I was--worked at St. Mary's for, prettymuch for the total time before my last child was born. So when my last child was born, I decided I'm getting a hysterectomy; I'm not having twenty kids. And so I had a hysterectomy. Uh, then I went to work for Larson's Canning Company; I was the first aid nurse there, and in the winter time they lay people off because 00:44:00they don't have the canning, so everybody has to apply for a job all winter, and of course it was easy for me to get a job because I was a nurse, so I went to work at the nursing homes. I was a first-charge nurse at Saint-Louis, and I was a first-charge nurse at Titletown nursing homes in Green Bay. Because it was easy to get a job in a medical, and I worked at, uh, let's see when I got out of the nursing homes--
HEALEY: Well let me interrupt you for a second. You have some pictures that youbrought out before we started the oral history. Tell me what this picture is.
CLOVER: Okay, this is a picture of me in my uniform, and it was taken atPoughkeepsie, New York when we stayed at the master-at-arms, visited there. 00:45:00
HEALEY: And what was your rank at the time?
CLOVER: And I was HM-Three.
HEALEY: And is that the rank that--
CLOVER: --Hospitalman Third.
HEALEY: --you left the Navy as, HM-Three?
HEALEY: And pay-grade, that is what? E-Four? E-Three? Don't know?
CLOVER: I wouldn't know. Don't know any of the new ones.
HEALEY: Okay. And tell me--you told me before it's listed as 1951. What did youdo with your uniforms? And what did you do with that skirt?
CLOVER: I, I gave my bucket hat to another girl in the service, and I gave thejacket that fit her, I took home my skirts, my slacks, and my raincoat, and my winter overcoat, gloves.
CLOVER: And what we called an overseas cap.
HEALEY: And you told me that you reused your skirt. What did you do with your skirt?
CLOVER: I, my first boys, uh, I made pants out of them--out of my skirts--for00:46:00them. For the first two boys.
HEALEY: And then down here in the lower right is a picture; tell me about that picture.
CLOVER: My Marine husband was in the service from, uh, about 1949 to 1951, andhe was called home to take care of his grandmother, who was pretty senile by then, and so he had to find her a, like, a nursing home--
CLOVER: --to go to.
HEALEY: And, uh, where did your husband serve in the Marine Corps?
CLOVER: He went to Quonset Point, Rhode I--Quons--not Quonset Point, uh, where'sthe Marine place?
HEALEY: Quantico, Virginia.
CLOVER: Quantico. Quantico.
CLOVER: And I believe he might have gone over to Norfolk for a while there.00:47:00
HEALEY: But you didn't know him when he was in the service.
CLOVER: But he was service airplane motors, I believe, when he was in theservice. No, I didn't know him then.
HEALEY: And where, again, did you meet your husband?
CLOVER: I came home on leave, and my sister invited him and me to a dinner, andso that's when I met him.
HEALEY: And how did your sister know your husband?
CLOVER: Because he worked in a garage with my brother-in-law. They worked in thesame Broadway garage in Green Bay.
CLOVER: And of course I blame her for all the problems I've [laughs] had in mymarried life, right? "You should have known him better before you introduced me to him." But he's been a close buddy all sixty-one years, pretty much.
HEALEY: Okay. And, let me ask you about some of these other pictures. Here's agood-sized one, tell me what that is all about. 00:48:00
CLOVER: Okay, this is my mother's mother's brother, who was Uncle Rudolph, andhe was serving in the First World War. He's buried somewhere in Oregon, in his last duty station.
HEALEY: And he's there in his uniform, with--I don't know what kind of cap youcall that.
CLOVER: That's, uh, like a trooper's hat, with the ribbon around it.
HEALEY: And his name is--
CLOVER: Rudolph, Rudolph--no, Fred. Frederick Birkholz.
HEALEY: Okay. World War I picture.
CLOVER: Frederick Birkholz.
HEALEY: And that's an original picture?
HEALEY: Okay. And this one, also, is labeled World War I. What is that?
CLOVER: My uncle Pete and my dad were in the First World War. And, uh, a buddy00:49:00of theirs, a neighbor of theirs, Milo Walker, was also there; this is a picture of the group over in France in World War I.
HEALEY: So your Dad is one of those?
CLOVER: My Dad is the one on the left.
CLOVER: There is, uh, a Weber fellow--Walker, Milo Walker was here also. He wastheir nephew--or, neighbor.
HEALEY: Okay. And--
CLOVER: So these are also pictures of Peter Meyer--that's my uncle Peter--andboth of these--My grandma and grandpa, Nicholas and Anna, had nine children. [phone rings] so two--
HEALEY: Okay. We'll continue. And you were saying your grandma had nine children?
CLOVER: Nicholas and Anna had nine children, and two of them were in the service00:50:00in World War I.
CLOVER: Seven boys and three girls, I think it was.
HEALEY: And both of them served in France? Or not?
CLOVER: I don't know where my uncle Pete served for sure, but my dad served in France.
HEALEY: And this picture?
CLOVER: This is a picture of my dad, and there's a waitress here that's probablyserving them beer. And he served in France in--that's Paris.
HEALEY: And this is a postcard from World War I?
CLOVER: Uh-huh; those are original postcards.
HEALEY: And your Dad is Ben Meyer?
HEALEY: And, uh, the sign there says, "Paris Grenoble"? Gre-no--Gre-no-bla.
CLOVER: Grenoble? Grenoble?
HEALEY: Could be Grenoble.
HEALEY: And then one other picture here.
CLOVER: This is again my dad with Milo Walker. Milo was a neighbor. And my00:51:00cousin George, who was Pete's son, Pete Walker's--Pete Meyer's son, George, married Gale Clow, and she was, daughter--her mother was a Walker. So Milo Walker would have been her uncle. Her name was Gale Clow, C-L-O-W.
HEALEY: And this picture is taken where?
CLOVER: So this picture would have been taken in France also. They're original postcards.
HEALEY: So these two people from Wisconsin happened to meet in Wisconsin? Orwere they serving in Paris?
CLOVER: They were serving--they must have been serving together. This is Milo Walker.
CLOVER: See, because I don't know where my uncle Pete served.00:52:00
Healey So this is Milo Walker and your father Ben Meyer.
CLOVER: And my Dad was about twenty-eight there, because I think he wastwenty-nine when he married my mother after he met her in Milwaukee, when he got out of the Service. So he was twenty-nine then. My brother was also in the Marines. My brother was born eleven years after me, and he was a very sickly child. He couldn't see very well out of his right eye, so when he joined the Marines, he was a sharpshooter with his left eye. And he was over in Okinawa; I believe he is making plans for airport--airstrips for planes to land, and he died of, probably malaria, probably a fever, over there. 00:53:00
HEALEY: And he was in the Marines in the 1950's or '60's?
CLOVER: Fifties. I believe that he went in the service in '54 and died in '56.
HEALEY: While he was still on active duty.
CLOVER: Yes. He was twenty years old then. The last night that he stayed inGreen Bay before he went in the service, he spent at our house, on my couch.
CLOVER: I was pregnant with, uh, the second son, I guess.
HEALEY: And what was your brother's name?
CLOVER: James Werner Meyer.
CLOVER: Now I have three sisters; I have Adeline, Rose, Marian, and my brotherJames. And we all graduated from high school. My two older sister--My older 00:54:00sister had a husband who was in the Navy; and the next sister Rose had a husband who was in the Navy for ten years, and in the Air Force for ten years; and my younger sister Marian, her husband was not in the Service.
HEALEY: Now, after you got out of the service, you had children, and youcontinued to work in nursing. You were also active in the WAVES organization?
CLOVER: I was a den mother for the Cub Scouts, and I also had that uniformsomewhere, too; I don't know--something like that. And I was that with my children; we had our meetings in the basement around the table, and our youngest baby Thomas was our little mascot, and we set him in the middle of the table and we held our Boy Scout meetings there, and we put on plays when we went to the 00:55:00West Moravian Church in Green Bay, where the Cub Scouts had their meetings, and we put on plays there, and the one play we did was Jack and the Beanstalk, with all my Cub Scouts. And I worked in the, the northern building; I cleaned offices there. One night I took my son Michael along with me because he was a crybaby and I wanted to take him to work to show him where I worked. But the boss at the job said I had to take him back home, that they didn't--weren't liable for him being in the building. So then, uh, where else will I continue?
HEALEY: Well, I don't know if you want to pick up here, but I asked you if you00:56:00were, uh, active in in military organizations here in the Green Bay area.
CLOVER: Well, for years, I was busy taking care of my kids. But I was going tothe dinners with the service people, and then one day, I think 1980, I joined the, uh, American Legion. I believe you had to join the auxiliary at the time; they wouldn't let you join the American Legion right then, so I said, "Well, I'm not in any auxiliary, because the auxiliary always has to do the cooking and everything; I am a veteran." So I joined the American Legion when it was possible. Then a lady came from Milwaukee, Genevieve Adrians, and she encouraged 00:57:00me to start the WAVES unit here in Green Bay. So I founded what we called the Packerland Unit 116, and we had twenty-three members; we met at the Bay Hotel restaurant; and we used to have entertainment; we drew names for prizes; and we had, uh, Elvis Presley one time, who was Bernice Lorenz [sp??] son--
HEALEY: So you had an Elvis Presley--
CLOVER: --as entertainer.
HEALEY: But somebody who was imitating him.
CLOVER: Yes. Oh yes.00:58:00
CLOVER: And so, uh, I went back and forth to Milwaukee, and I finally met thegirls in Unit Thirty-Nine, the Badger Unit; there I became--I was president of the unit here, and I became a Wisconsin State Director--
HEALEY: --of WAVES.
CLOVER: --of the WAVES National, then I became the Regional Representative ofthe WAVES, and then I went to all conferences and all the conventions, I went to Hawaii by myself to a convention, I drove to Boston for a convention, stayed in Milwaukee for a few days at a convention--Was very active back then, and I am 00:59:00pretty active on the e-mail with Claire Krolick, C-L-A-I-R-E K-R-O-L-I-C-K; Joanie Hampton; Mary Berger--Mary Berger--
HEALEY: These are other WAVES throughout the United States?
CLOVER: They're in Milwaukee, ones you may want to interview. Dolores Miller,Sheryl Adams--Debbie Thomas is the head of the Twenty and Four.
HEALEY: There's something that I didn't ask you about, and it came to mind whenyou said--made a comment about joining the American Auxiliary, and, uh, didn't want to do that because they washed the dishes and you were a veteran. We didn't talk an awful lot about your training in the Navy. Did you train with men, or just train with women, for example, in boot camp: Was it-- 01:00:00
CLOVER: Trained with the men.
HEALEY: Okay. So when you were out there on the field marching, you weremarching with men, or with women?
CLOVER: Uh, the--our company--Okay, I can't remember. It was about--threehundred women, our company. But there were the--what did they call those? Where there's about twenty-five people in a--platoon.
CLOVER: And, uh, I think my platoon was ninety-one. I was in the choir. I thinkI sent those pictures already to the museum and archives.
HEALEY: You were in Navy Choir in, uh, Great Lakes, or--
CLOVER: Great Lakes.
CLOVER: Great Lakes. All those--everything I did, I sent the pictures alongwith, uh, whatever was her name? Mary? What did you say her name was? Martinson. 01:01:00
HEALEY: Okay. Gail Martinson.
CLOVER: I think she has all that.
HEALEY: And at Great Lakes, in where you stayed at night in your barracks, wasthat all women, or was it women and men, or what?
CLOVER: Oh, we had women's barracks. And the mens' barracks was off to one side.
HEALEY: And how about in Chelsea? What were your living accommodations like?
CLOVER: In Chelsea we had women's barracks.
HEALEY: Okay. And how about Quonset--
CLOVER: I remember--
CLOVER: I was in, uh, in the women's barracks in Quonset also, and I worked inthe infirmary. But I remember when I get to be an x-ray technician, and they didn't give me a billet; they couldn't find a billet for me to go to, so I was stranded at, uh, Chelsea, and I got pissed off. I went to a bar one night, and really got pissed up, rode a bicycle, down we ca--went out to Woods Hole, on the 01:02:00bicycle, and that's Martha's Vineyard.
HEALEY: Wow. Okay.
CLOVER: Yeah, Martha's Vineyard. And, uh, anyway, I was riding a bicycle, on thecobblestones and everything, and I got back to the barracks, and they had this stairway, and I picked up the bicycle and I walked up the stairway, and got to the barracks, and I guess I must have collapsed there because they gave me a cold shower, marched me into my bed, and the reason I say the men's barracks was right over here was because we had the lighted hallway where they marched--
[Break in recording][01:02:58]
HEALEY: --three with Dolores Clover, and it is Tape 2, Side A. Okay. You weretalking about marched, uh--
CLOVER: So they marched me naked down the hallway and to my room, and I woke upabout midnight or so, and of course we had to be prepared to go to work the next 01:03:00day, so I put up my hair in my pin curls, and went back to bed, and got up in the morning, and combed out my hair and everything was normal; I don't even remember whether I had a hangover or anything. [laughs]
HEALEY: Do you remember why you were upset?
CLOVER: I was upset because they didn't get me a billet to go to when I was anx-ray technician, and maybe a month later they found one in Quonset Point, at the infirmary in Quonset Point, Rhode Island.
HEALEY: M-hm. So, what did you do for that month? [Clover laughs] Did you go to work?
HEALEY: Or did you have any work?
CLOVER: --I believe I did have to work in my offices, yeah. But I wasn't anx-ray technician, I didn't work at X-ray; I worked--that's probably when I switched down to the delivery room. 01:04:00
CLOVER: And I worked with my--
HEALEY: Do you know why they didn't have a billet for you?
CLOVER: Because there wasn't any for a woman veteran, probably.
CLOVER: They had male x-ray technicians. I was the only woman in the class ofseven that took the x-ray course, and I wanted to take the x-ray course, signed up for it, because of the lieutenant that was in my department, with the, all the, what was--all the officers, anyway. We had dermatology, and orthopedics, obstetrics, gynecology, and--
HEALEY: You said because of the lieutenant. Did the lieutenant encourage you todo x-ray tech, or what?
CLOVER: No, the lieutenant was being what we called ape.
CLOVER: She was getting to be really strict, and I wanted to get out of there.So she reported me to the captain, and I went down to see the captain, and he said, "Why are you leaving this?" And I said, "Because my lieutenant is getting on my back all the time." So he said, "Well, I understand." I guess he knew her better, [laughs] and so, that's probably when I got transferred down into the delivery room to take care of the babies in the delivery room. I know we delivered a set of twins on a gurney one night, and the doctor didn't show up.
HEALEY: So when you say "We delivered," who was there to do the delivery?
CLOVER: Uh, I've been trying to think. Her name was Madson, Virginia Madson. Shewas an RN that was in the delivery room.
CLOVER: And I worked with her, and I would go into the delivery room and give01:06:00the baby the K shots and clean 'em up, and take them to the nursery. I set up all the instruments in the delivery room that they needed for the delivery also. So I was pretty knowledgeable about when and then [??]. I can't figure out how I ever got through that today, because I'm losing my mind.
HEALEY: So you did all sorts of deliveries: regular deliveries or vaginaldeliveries, and C--did you help with C-sections also?
CLOVER: No. I didn't. But I did x-ray--when I did x-ray, I x-rayed the ones thatwere going to be the C-sections or normal delivery, because they had to know how the baby's head fit in the pelvis.
CLOVER: So I did those x-rays. I did fluoroscopy, x-rays for gallbladder, and01:07:00abdominal problems, you know, when they used the thick leather glove and the thick leather aprons, and give 'em the barium treatments, the barium enemas; I did those.
HEALEY: Back when you were in labor and delivery were--what was the routineprocedure with women? Did they have medication before they were delivered, or were they doing natural deliveries with no medication?
CLOVER: I had a spinal block--
CLOVER: --where they put the needle in the spine.
HEALEY: All of the deliveries were spinal block?
CLOVER: I'm not sure.
CLOVER: I had to have one anyway.
HEALEY: Oh, no; I'm talking about your two years--or your year or so--in the Navy.
CLOVER: I didn't stand by for, uh--the babies came normal.
CLOVER: I don't know whether they had any shots or anything. If they hadanything, the RN took care of that. But I stood by them, took their pulse, 01:08:00checked the, uh, their abdomen, and I checked the vaginal percession[??], you know, to know how far they were dilated--I did that work.
HEALEY: Okay. After you got out of the Navy, did you ever work in deliveryagain? Or no, you worked in nursing homes.
CLOVER: I worked in St. Vincent's on the orthopedic ward where they did thesurgery, the bone surgery.
CLOVER: And I worked in St. Mary's, on pretty much the same floor, where,people, uh, I don't remember. Just ordinary stuff.
HEALEY: Would you encourage other people to join the service?
CLOVER: I definitely would. I definitely think the service is a place where youcan discipline yourself, and if you need help they'll help you get there. I 01:09:00definitely believe everyone should go in the service. I know they do in other countries, for two years when they get out of high school.
HEALEY: Did any of your children go in the service?
CLOVER: I have one son that joined the Marines; he got through boot camp andthey found something wrong with one of his eyes.
CLOVER: And, uh, so they put him out of boot camp, and the other one was in theAir Force for two years, but then he got mixed up with drugs. Marijuana so then they put him out of the service. Those are the only two.
HEALEY: Okay. Do most of your children live in this area, the Green Bay area, or not?
CLOVER: The oldest one lives in Georgia,; and the second one lives in Jim Falls,Wisconsin out by Eau Claire; third one lives in Cali, Colombia, she married a 01:10:00farmer there, and so now she's a full-fledged teacher, and she can teach English to all the people, the doctors, and personnel that want to come to the United States, she helps them with their English to fill out their papers. The fourth one is a jack-of-all-trades; he has his own business, and that's Danny. Then I have a daughter who is a CNA and she works with abused children at a children's hospital down in Neenah. And then Charlie is a city worker; he works maintaining sewers and everything like that. And Thomas worked for H. J. Martin, the carpet company. And they are all employed.
HEALEY: Okay. I think I pretty much ran out of questions, but is there anything01:11:00else that you would like to say about your service?
CLOVER: Well, I already told you when we graduated. One girl came out to see methat I worked with in the children's hospital.
CLOVER: And she married a Doctor Patista [sp??], I think, from probably Brazilor someplace, because they worked with a TB hospital and that's where she met him. So, she came out to see me when I was in Chelsea, uh--oh, I had a girl, Demitri [sp??], first name Joyce Demitri. She was a black girl, and she was, uh, my dearest friend.
HEALEY: She was in the Navy with you?
CLOVER: In the Navy.
CLOVER: And, uh, she and I used to play table tennis, and--ping-pong, you know--and--01:12:00
HEALEY: Where was she from, if you were--
CLOVER: She was from Oakland, California. Her family is still there. I didn'tfind out that she died for quite a while, and she went to every class, every school that she could, and she got too well-educated, and she never could drive; never knew how to drive so they couldn't give her a job. She wanted to be a job as a social worker, and, uh, I found out that she died.
HEALEY: And what did she do in the Navy?
CLOVER: She was in the, the Drill--what do you call it? The Drill Corps?
HEALEY: Oh, okay.
CLOVER: She marched precision Drill Corps, you know, where they dropped theirfeet, and everything, and I believed she worked in a medical office somewhere, but I'm not sure. We never got together that way. She went her way and I went my 01:13:00way until we played the tennis together and stuff like that--got together for that. I know there was another girl from Georgia. There she wasn't too particularly happy about the dog being in the barracks. I don't know if I read over my thing I suppose I could pick out some more things, [inaudible] gonna shut that off for a minute or something, and, uh, see if I--
HEALEY: You were just telling me about your rank progression; go ahead.
CLOVER: Okay, my rate progression was SA--Seaman Apprentice, then I went toSeaman--SN, then I rated HN--Hospital Corpsman, and Hospitalman, and then I went to HM, Hospitalman 3. But I didn't get the Hospitalman 3 rank until I jumped in 01:14:00the tank to prove that I could jump off the side of a ship with my legs together; otherwise the water would split you right in half. And I was so scared--
HEALEY: Did you know how to swim?
CLOVER: Yeah, until that, when you gotta jump into ten feet of water, and ittook me a long time to fight my way to the top, and the fellow that was overseeing what I was doing thought he had to throw me a lifesaver because I didn't come up very quick to the top, and I was really scared because all my life I learned to swim and everything, but nobody could ever hold my head underwater, 'cause I was really afraid of drowning then. So when I went swimming I mostly went swimming by myself, and I could swim underwater for eleven strokes, like a large turtle, you know. And I would throw a stone under the 01:15:00water, and go down and find it. But I was very afraid of swimming with anybody else, so when I got in that tank that was pretty scary for me, but I passed that test and I became a hospitalman third; I don't even know if I got paid for the rank because it was in July and I was discharged July 7, 1952. I managed to get there this far, I have all kinds of friends in Milwaukee and, uh, I have friends in Illinois, out in Michigan--
HEALEY: And you're talking about friends in the WAVES, who served in the WAVES?
CLOVER: My WAVES National friends, and my American Legion friends. And all thewomen veterans that I can find in the obituaries, I send--[Man speaks] 01:16:00
HEALEY: Okay. I know you're looking through some things here, but--
CLOVER: Just some ideas here. I've been to, uh, six--I've been in the AmericanLegion for over thirty-three years. I was in WAVES National since 1991, when I found out about the organization. Other than that, I never knew there was a WAVES National; I was very happy to find out that there was an organization. And, uhm, like I said WAVES National has taken me to, uh, conventions from one end of the country to the other, to Hawaii, and I was very happy to be a part of it. I tried to get some units started in North and South Dakota. There are no 01:17:00close people there; they live so far apart, cities are so remote, that they can't get a unit started there. But one in Minneapolis, and two in Wisconsin, were the ones that I visited when I was state director, and regional rep. I have a cousin in Minneapolis, a male cousin who comes to have lunch with us at the VA establishment there when we go out there for convenience, convention, and conferences, and he's a very good friend. I guess I am kind of a person that goes by the book. If there's a rule we have to follow it. And some of the people 01:18:00that I meet stray away from that. They want to go their own way, make up their own rules, make up their own ways of running the organization, and I object to that, and I have been a part of getting rid of some of those people. Professionally, I mean. Officially. I guess, other than that I never was a person to get in the service for any other reason than learning something. Going to the Hospital Corps school was very good for me.
CLOVER: Working with all the people in the Service was very good. I never knew01:19:00any of them personally; I did deliver the babies from these soldiers and sailors or whoever came to the Chelsea hospital, and there was one girl who had a baby--sailor's baby, and I went home with her one night because she wanted me to help her with the baby, and I stayed with her, and we took care of the baby together until she could get a little bit familiar with how she was going to handle that baby. And her mother was very grateful; they were Italian people, and [inaudible] very thankful that I came home with the daughter, but I got in trouble one time, because they invited me to their house for Thanksgiving, and I had a detail to do. I had the upper walls and the windows of this one room, 01:20:00living room, and another girl had the floor. So I did all my detail, and I didn't do the floor, and that girl didn't show up to do her buffing and her vacuuming and everything, and I guess because she didn't show up I was supposed to finish that. Anyway, I got fourteen hours' demerits for not finishing her detail. So, I learned discipline pretty good.
HEALEY: Okay. Well, thanks for sharing your story; I appreciate it. It's beeninteresting to me.
CLOVER: Thank you. I wish I could have delved a little bit more in it, but mymind isn't on it right now.
HEALEY: Okay, thank you very much.
[End of Interview]