Willie B. Williams: We Were Like Family

When Mik Derks for interviewed Willie B. Williams, a DeForest, Wisconsin resident at the time, the result was an intimate picture of an infantry squad leaders’ life in Vietnam in 1966. Williams remembers the good times of camaraderie with his squad's singing group and, more poignantly, when one of their singing group was killed in action.

He also shares his struggles as an African American in 1962 in Mississippi and his reasoning behind his decision to enlist in the Army. At the time, in 1962, the Vietnam War was not in his thoughts. This post focuses on Williams’ first Vietnam tour.

Born in Crystal Springs, Mississippi, Williams served as an infantryman in the United States Army from July 1962 to March 1970. He attended Basic Training and Advanced Individualized Training at Fort Jackson, South Carolina. From there, Williams went to Fort Dix, New Jersey, and then Fort Monmouth, New Jersey, en route to Germany. The Army assigned Williams to Bamberg, Germany, for his first tour, where he served with the 54th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division, from 1963 to 1965. Upon returning to the United States, the Army discharged him.

Soon thereafter, in 1965, at Fort Hamilton, New York, Williams re-enlisted for six years for the re-enlistment bonus and a posting to Hawaii. Posted to Hawaii, the Army assigned Williams to 2nd Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division, also known as the “Wolfhounds,” where he attended Jungle School. In January 1966, Williams and the 3rd Brigade, 25th Infantry Division, deployed from Hawaii to Vietnam via ship, landing in Vung Tau and traveling overland to Cu Chi.

By the time of his 1966 combat tour in Vietnam, Williams was an "old-timer" who quickly became the team leader and then a squad leader in the 2nd Battalion, 27th Infantry Regiment, 25th Infantry Division. This leadership position proved decisive in Williams’ Vietnam experience.

Williams recounts this tour in this direct and frank interview, here are some excerpts from the interview that cover his 1966 Vietnam tour in his own words.

When I joined the military I looked at it as a way to, number one get out of Mississippi, because of what was happening. I remember my mother and grandmother used to tell me that I wouldn't live to be twenty-one if I didn't change my attitude. I was always compared to Emmett Till. I was told, you know, the same thing will happen to you that happened to Emmett. When Emmett was killed, I was twelve years old, and, you know, for that, you know label people would tell me, you know, that I'd end up like that, you know, I needed to get out of Mississippi in the worst way. And the military was that chance and it also helped economically. I could send a few dollars back to my mother.

And in Cu Chi we were out to do the fighting and that's what we did. We built our base camp right above the tunnels. I don't know why the military didn't know they were there. They had intelligence people and those tunnels were old, so I hear. But we built our camp right above 'em. And we started taking casualties as soon as we got in Cu Chi really from the VC coming outta the tunnels inside our perimeter, snipping on people. It took a while before we realized that the tunnels were there. So it was pretty hectic.

WILLIAMS: I don't think anybody can explain, you know, what it really, really feels like. At times I feel like it's no feeling, like you're just hollow for a moment. That's the way it was the complete night with De Marchi was hit. We sat in the hole with him and we couldn't fight because we had a team, a small patrol out, and we had hundreds of people that were coming through, going to the perimeter. So we were just trying to stay down and make it 'til day, when the fighting would stop, you know. That's what happened, we did make it. But it was really painful to be in a close proximity that a friend of yours is with you no more. And you're seeing him there when in reality he's not. It's--it has an effect on you that you'd never--you'd never forget it. I still think about it often. I still think about De Marchi, yeah. I think--we were close too. We had a little singing group and he was one of the battalion guys from New York that we used to call a guy from the Four Seasons that used to sing with the--.
INTERVIEWER: Valli.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, Frankie Valli. De Marchi was something like that. He could carry the high notes. And when we had a chance in base camp we used to sit around and do doo-wops, harmonize. So he was more than just one in the squad. He was the close friend--.

WILLIAMS: That's why I laugh when I hear people now that say they this new way of treating PTSD and one lady even said they were curing PTSD. And I think it's a joke. 'Cause I think to cure it you'll be able to take away those memories, those nightmares, the flashbacks. And I don't think one will ever be able to do that unless it's someway you can alter the brain, but I think you can get to a level to where you can deal with whatever happens, you know, that carries you back to that time and you, the ghost of war visit you. I think you learn how to cope with it.
INTERVIEWER: The ghosts of war.
WILLIAMS: The ghost of war, yeah, that's what I call it.

WILLIAMS: Viet Cong that was in Cu Chi, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: Really, here in Madison?
WILLIAMS: In Madison, yeah. And we talked, yeah.
INTERVIEWER: What'd you talk about? I mean.
WILLIAMS: About Vietnam. It was weird. I had a problem with a car and I stopped by a shop. This was a few years ago. We just started talking about Vietnam. He knew I was a Vietnam vet from the license plates. And he said "Yeah" he was at Cu Chi and I asked which side was he on? He say he was an orphan, you know so, that let me know he was Viet Cong [laughs]. But he ah, to listen to them too, you have to understand their side. That's what troubled me a lot about being involved in that war and killing people. Is that he was saying the United States is the reason Vietnam went communist, which, if you read history you can understand where he's coming from. When Truman refused to support 'em during that short period in history when they weren't under occupation and asked this country to help 'em and only after that did they, you know, go communist, so. You know, there's enough blame to go all the way around so I can understand why they fought so hard. They wanted their right for self-determination you know. Which I think everyone in the world deserves an so. I wasn't bitter at him for being a Viet Cong and I think he felt the same way about me, he felt that I thought I was doing the right thing, to help the people when in reality I wasn't. So it's just something that I think both sides are coming to grips with; now both the Vietnamese people, Viet Cong, and the American troops. I think that's why you see some of the Americans going back to Vietnam to--many tried to shake, I guess, the ghosts of the past. They figure it's a healing process. And it works both ways, you know.

WILLIAMS: But the second tour after I come back to the states is what started me going in a different direction, as far as the military, because I think I possibly would have made a career had it not been for Vietnam. It changed all of it. It made me, I think, wiser. It made me study more, read more, because, you know, like I say, I was oblivious to the reality of what was happening when I was in Germany. I didn't keep up with nothing, you know so. That's my ignorance got me that situation. So, you know, 1970 when I came back, I said "Nope, this won't happen again." I want to know why, why was I there. I would start listening to the protestors, what they were saying and you know, reading. It made me totally different from what I was in '66. And it took a lot of year to get to that point, 'cause many years I didn't do nothing, didn't want to think about Vietnam, didn't want to speak about any issues. My only concern was my family, my wife and daughter, and, later, the grandkids. About five years ago everything changed. I hadn't [inaudible].
INTERVIEWER: Long process isn't it?
WILLIAMS: Yeah. Yep, it's ironic too 'cause this weekend we were out with Clarence Kailin, who was in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade and I thought about how as a young man he understood what was happening in the world and took a position at--at a very young age and it took me 50 years almost, to get to that point to where I could take a position for--for the right reasons.

The names on the wall, I know so many people on there that the first time I saw it was last year when it was out at the VFW here in Madison. Even though I had been to D.C. six or seven times, I'd never had the courage to go up and read the panels. And when it came here, I thought I could do it by myself, go early in the morning and I did. I went about 3 o'clock in the morning and read a few names and then went home. And couple of hours later I went back, I think I went about five or six times and my wife went with me a couple of times. 'Cause she knew many of the people that were on that wall too, that I knew--so yep just dealing with it, dealing with the memory of it, trying to forget it. I think trying to drop that stigma that many people have, the part 'bout we were nuts and all of that play a big part in it. I think that's why a lot of vets don't go for help, for PTSD, because they're afraid of being labeled as being a psycho or being crazy when in reality they're just dealing with something that happened that was beyond your control then and is beyond it now. You got to live with it, accept it and go on.

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